Geraldo Rivera is only the latest pundit to let us know that 400 plus years of socioeconomic disaster for black America could be fixed if we just figured out the problem.
That problem of course being black America.
Geraldo’s comments were made during an appearance on “Fox and Friends” in which he addressed what he believed is the real problem plaguing black communities.
And in the end it’s paternalistic scolding, because it always ends up getting around to some “common wisdom” that black fathers are pretty much the worst things in all Creation.
Rivera criticized those who focused on police violence and challenged them to avoid the “low-hanging fruit” and instead focus on the harder problems to solve.
“We’re the victims. Yet again, we’re the victims. Let’s fix this problem,” Rivera said. “But what about the much more difficult problem of ‘We’re The Problem.'”
“We’re the problem when it comes to the dysfunction,” Rivera continued. “We’re the problem when it comes to fathers not being responsible for their children. … That’s the t-shirt he should wear. That’s fine, “I can’t breathe” this week. Next week, if you’re gonna be a billboard, a walking billboard, next week “Be a better father to your son.”
I’m sure Eric Garner’s son and grandson would like to hear more about this theory.
There’s so much wrong with this I can barely keep from punching the keyboard. What about the fathers of the white people who go around shooting up schools like Sandy Hook or other public places like that theater in Aurora? What about Tim McVeigh’s dad, or Eric Robert Rudolph’s father? Nobody said “You know, white guys need to be better fathers. Just look at that Tim McVeigh blowing up that federal building, where the hell was his dad?”
Nobody said that. But the problem with police murdering black men (and black women) is us? It’s because our fathers aren’t good enough to make us bulletproof? I’m sure if Eric Garner had pulled his pants up or gone around in his spare time preaching about the evils of that damned hippity-hop music the cops wouldn’t have choked him to death, right?
“We’re the problem” definitely would have solved centuries of slavery and Jim Crow and redlining neighborhoods and lynch mobs and and alleviated any need for a civil rights movement, I’m sure. Look, it’s one thing to say “You have to take personal responsibility for your own actions like all people have to do” and entirely another to say “cops would shoot you less if you weren’t culturally inferior little beasties who are a blight on society.”
Hell the fact we survived this long despite all this bullshit kind of proves we must have done something right, ya know?
Mike J
He wants us to ignore the strange fruit.
Kryptik, A Man Without A Country
You know what I love (and by love, I mean despise with the seething hate of a supernova)?
It’s all about individualism with these kinds of assholes, success is all about the individual, rights are all about the individual and freeing the individual. But it’s only about individualism until you need a bludgeon against blahs and brown folks. Then the entire general group, the entire community or people are to blame, they’re the blight, they’re the rot. When a white person does something, oh, they’re just a bad apple. Black person DIES, they’re to blame and somehow indicative of how violent and savage the entirety of black people are and how generally subhuman they are, unlike the saintly goddamn white folk.
Zam
My black cousin’s father was around all the time, hell probably more so than my white father, but they still get hassled by the cops far more than all their white friends and are often treated as thugs, even though they are from an upper class family. We also shouldn’t forget when talking about the bullshit that the result of more scrutiny and harsher punishments from the law on black people leads to locking up some of these fathers for crimes most whites get probation for.
Patricia Kayden
Rivera is a racist. Remember what he said about Black men wearing hoodies as the reason that Zimmerman was okay to shoot Trayvon Martin? He’s always excusing White racists. Always. I regret all those years I used to watch his talk show. Didn’t know he was such a douche.
skerry
Rivera has been married 5 times. Not sure why anyone should take family advice from him. I do wonder what his children (if any) think of all this.
Kryptik, A Man Without A Country
@Zam:
It’s not that people forget that. It’s that people want to ignore it. It pierces the veil that we’re ‘post-racial’ enough, that racism can’t possibly exist in a serious way anymore and that therefore, any problems a black person might face in this country, they brought it on themselves by proving themselves just as inferior as folks insisted all along.
Scott S.
What about the fathers of the white people who go around shooting up schools like Sandy Hook or other public places like that theater in Aurora? What about Tim McVeigh’s dad, or Eric Robert Rudolph’s father?
I wanna know what was wrong with Geraldo Rivera’s dad. Here’s this old bastard who’s spent his whole life making up lies on TV and chasing useless ratings and doing absolutely nothing to make the world a better place. Where was Geraldo’s dad — and what kind of horrors has Geraldo, this empty mustachioed moral vacuum, inflicted on his own innocent children?
Ruckus
This is such an obvious truth that it seems absolutely insane to have to say it. But nothing can be taken for obvious truth when it comes to racism or assholes like GR.
Yatsuno
Dear Jerry Rivers:
Shut.
The.
Fuck.
Up.
trollhattan
Fox viewer to spouse, “You know, the sp*ck has a point.”
Thanks mucho, mister Rivera, your efforts to better the level of the conversation have been noted in the ledger. Keep speaking truth to power. (If only Al Capone’s vault were booby-trapped.)
chopper
So the big problem with black communities is that they’re full of black people. Yeah that’s some FOX philosophy all right.
Ruckus
@Scott S.:
Good point.
skerry
@skerry: Couldn’t edit my comment, FYWP
Anyway, per Wikipedia Rivera has been married five times and has fathered five children:
Definitely a role model for fatherhood.
Tenar Darell
How dare you be so rude to point out that 5 wives and many children might not be a good advertisement of your parenting skills? Pointing out that I might resemble that remark!? It’s just not done!
Mike E
The Mustache Of Misunderstanding.
Suzanne
@Kryptik, A Man Without A Country: Only rich white dudes get to be individuals. Everyone else has to represent someone else. That’s why we can talk about “black-on-black crime” as of it were a disease that infected an entire group of people, but white dudes shooting up a school is a random, unpredictable occurrence that doesn’t reflect on any larger cultural issues at all. Oh heavenz NOES!
I really think this is one reason the UVA rape story has struck such a cultural chord: for the first time in a long time, some rich white sons of privilege are finding themselves under a cloud of suspicion because of their subculture.
Suzanne
Geraldo Rivera is a complete waste of a person. What a POS.
Roger Moore
This doesn’t make sense even on its own terms. Let’s avoid the easy solutions and go straight to the hard ones. That’s what everyone does when they want to be as effective as possible in solving problems.
Amir Khalid
@skerry:
I seem to remember that one of his children criticised something stupid he said about hoodies, in relation to Trayvon Martin.
KG
I saw the first block quote and my mind instantly went to this.
joel hanes
Rivera is at least partially correct.
He is part of the problem.
KG
in all seriousness though… why the flying fuck does anyone pay any attention to anything that Geraldo Rivera says?
Unabogie
Between Geraldo, Limbaugh, and Gingrich, I count 13 marriages. Remind me why anyone ought to give a fuck what they have to say about black families?
PurpleGirl
@Yatsuno: Exactly. Jerry Rivers.
Zandar
@KG: It’s 2014, almost 2015, and people are saying this on a major national network still.
Keith G
One can tell Mr. Rivera is saying something false, and or hateful, and or irresponsible simply by observing that he is making the effort to speak. I am not sure what else is to be gained by caring about anything that horrible person does.
Kryptik, A Man Without A Country
@Zandar:
Yeah, it’s not the fact that this specific asshole that says it. It’s that it’s still a mainstream enough idea to get play on TV outside of a cartoonishly racist villain on a drama.
debbie
Finally!
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2014/12/12/cleveland-death-of-12-year-old-boy-shot-by-cleveland-police-ruled-a-homicide.html
CONGRATULATIONS!
Nothing about rap?
That’s progress. Of some sort.
I wonder, if you set Mr. Rivera on fire, if the mustache survives? I think it must. It obviously confers magical powers onto it’s wearer, as so far as I know nobody has tried to punch Mr. Rivera in the face.
Villago Delenda Est
Clearly, the solution is for all the brown and black people to de-melanize so some asshole white people won’t be afraid of them.
I’ve got a better idea. “Resettle” all the asshole white people to say Alaska.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@debbie: Sadly, this does not mean what you think it means. All it means is that the coroner found that Tamir was killed by another human being, and not, let’s say, in a car wreck.
Most homicides by cops end up being found “justifiable” and with those, there is no prosecution.
Roger Moore
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
You need to learn more about him, then, since he famously had his nose broken in an on-air brawl. Also, too, he was apparently an amateur boxer, so he had some experience with people trying to punch him in the face.
Villago Delenda Est
@Suzanne: He’s a waste of protoplasm, let alone being a person.
Another whose reduction to sub-atomic particles would be a blessing for the universe.
Kryptik, A Man Without A Country
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Remember, Garner’s death was ruled ‘homicide’, and we saw what happened there.
steve
Check out the comment sections of news websites (particularly local newspapers that run mugshots). “Let’s prosecute the parents too” is a very common, equal-opportunity refrain.
But you’re absolutely right about black fathers being a popular punching bag for the right. And now that Bill Cosby probably isn’t going to be doing his “pull up your pants” scolding anymore, hypocrites like Rivera are filling the vacuum.
Buddy H
I remember seeing an interview with Kurt Vonnegut. He became visibly upset when Geraldo’s name was mentioned. He referred to him as Jerry Rivers. He said if he’d spit in his eye if he ever saw him again.
Apparently, Jerry, the man who sees fit to lecture black men on being better fathers and husbands, mistreated Vonnegut’s daughter; cheated on her and made her miserable.
**********************
Different topic (somewhat): Today the new Chris Rock movie opens. It’s getting GREAT reviews. I was looking forward to seeing it at our local bowtie cinema chain. It’s not playing. I actually called up, and asked them if they’d be showing it. “No,” was the curt reply. Several other theaters in my area aren’t showing it either. Are they afraid of “teh blahs” showing up in their movie houses? I just want to see this film without driving a hundred miles.
Svensker
That sums the mindset up beautifully. Or hideously.
Mike in NC
When FOX decided they should have a token Hispanic pundit, hiring a douche like Geraldo Rivera was a no-brainer.
Keith G
@Zandar:
Granted its a low mark on our media landscape, but on average only slightly over 1 million viewers tune into F & Fs each weekday morning. That is around 2,200 idiots per Congressional district.
The View grabs around 3 million viewers each weekday this season.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@debbie: Yes, it’s overdue, but …
Specifically:
The first 3 obviously don’t apply, so it was clear the ME would rule it was #4.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Roger Moore: I know more about him than I wanted, but still, that someone made the effort is good. But America is slacking! He shouldn’t be able to go out in public without being belted a good one right in the schnoz.
Kryptik, A Man Without A Country
@Keith G:
Unfortunately, the View doesn’t steer our political and policy narratives the same way Fox News does.
Barbara
@Buddy H: I remember reading Vonnegut’s description of his daughter’s brief marriage to Rivera in one collection of essays or another. I was struck by how much Vonnegut, who usually viewed most of humankind and its foibles with wry bemusement, really, really hated Rivera and was never, ever going to forgive him.
Gian
@KG:
When he was drawing and explaining US troop movements during the Iraq war, I’d bet some of the Iraqis paid attention
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/31/sprj.irq.geraldo/
Another Holocene Human
Zandar, this clown already showed his ass after Trayvon Martin died when he was ranting about hoodies, sounds like an asshole who blames miniskirts for rape.
Geraldo is a poster child for extreme narcissism. The rumor is he’s a real asshole in person and not just in front of a camera. Bill O’Reilly with a ‘stache.
GregB
The Douchebag of Misunderstanding.
Another Holocene Human
@Barbara: Malignant narcissists often have that effect on people.
Buddy H
@Barbara:
Vonnegut, who usually viewed most of humankind and its foibles with wry bemusement, really, really hated Rivera and was never, ever going to forgive him.
Which makes one wonder how horrible a husband Jerry was. If the divorce had been amicable, Kurt Vonnegut wouldn’t have been so angry. In the tv interview I saw, Kurt was calm until his ex-son-in-law was mentioned. His whole expression and manner suddenly changed. I’d never seen him like that before.
Another Holocene Human
Rivera did some good work a long long time ago, exposing what was going on at Willowbrook.
Glenn Greenwald did some blogging and wrote a book about how the US fails to punish elites for wrongdoing from Pres Ford onwards.
It’s part of a pattern of a narcissist’s long con, the “courting” period, just as these folks will court a domestic partner. However, once you are on the hook, it then becomes all about their needs, and you find yourself the slave and punching bag for them.
This is how these people manage to keep control for so long, those on the periphery are only aware of the courting behaviors and they overlook more and more red flags because of the initial impression of the narcissist’s worth.
Buddy H
And on the subject of the new Chris Rock film, I did a quick search online, and out of 25 or so theaters in my area, ONLY THREE are showing it. So rather than walking around the corner to see it, my wife and I will have to drive one hour.
Another Holocene Human
@Buddy H: With a narcissist there was likely economic exploitation involved, and probably cheating going on as well. But the darker side involves sadistic psychological manipulation, lying, threats, poisoning relationships with others, possibly physical violence, constant negging and denigration behind closed doors. The potential for harm is enormous.
ETA: @Buddy H: didn’t see your comment above:
malignant narcissist–ding ding ding!
Another Holocene Human
@Buddy H: Let us know if it’s any good.
Belafon
Just wait until Spinwheel shows up to tell you how you’re the one being racist.
Tommy
Wow. I mentioned in another thread here I was raised in a family where pretty much everybody outside my parents were racist. I’ve always thought this. My parents who are not so liberal raised a card carrying liberal is a badge of honor for them. They just taught me the basics. Don’t lie, don’t steal, love your fellow human. Then they let me figure out the rest of stuff on my own. Funny how things worked out.
Another Holocene Human
@Villago Delenda Est:
Traditionally, the “Negro” feature was not skin color but the shame of the nose.
If we consider the edge cases of Black people who have lost their pigment, or not Black people whose skin is very dark, you will see that nasal shape is still active.
Also, witness the angst about Michael Jackson’s nose. (It was broken at a young age and had to be rebuilt, something most of the wags ignore.)
As a person of partial Irish descent I’m sensitive to the way Irish noses have been both desired and emulated and reviled and denigrated.
People get stupid about a lot of things. Just rest assured it’s not just skin color and it’s not even hair.
Keith G
@Kryptik, A Man Without A Country: Actually, I have heard/seen more secondary reporting about shit on the View than shit on F & Fs.
AFAIK F & Fs has two small audience segments: A primary audience of Social Security eligible conservatives who watch it live; and a secondary audience of liberals who listen to what was said on some earlier segment when they click the hypertext.
A limited collection of bloggers typing “Oh my god did you see what Rivera said” does not equal steering our political and policy narratives any more than holy roller snake handlers steer our understanding of zoology.
Tommy
@Another Holocene Human: Hair and skin color have about nothing to do with race and genetics. I forget them all now, but there are six things they look at. The shape of a nose is one. Your nose is a distinct marker. I can’t recall the other five I learned in college, but they have NOTHING to do with skin color.
raven
Shooting reported near Rosemary Anderson High School in North Portland
PST
I am sure that what Rivera means is that if the fathers of cops who shoot or strangle unarmed African Americans had not been racist and violent at home, their children would have grown up without becoming racist bullies. So all we need is better fathers and time to raise a new generation of law enforcement. Can’t argue with that!
SatanicPanic
@CONGRATULATIONS!: remember that time John Stossel got slapped by a pro-wrestler? I’m not wishing that on Geraldo, but I might laugh if it did
Culture of Truth
I want to see WE ARE THE PROBLEM on a banner hanging on behind the speakers at the next Republican convention.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Buddy H:
I think it depends on where you are — I’m in the San Fernando Valley (Los Angeles) and it seems to be showing at every multiplex in the area.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Also, too, can we pause for a moment and note that Rivera is infantilizing Eric Garner, who was 44 years old? I’m not quite sure why we’re supposed to be blaming the parents of a 44-year-old adult for his behavior.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
Testing…
Sorry to go OT.
So what does one do if one’s posts vanish, or if you get a WP message saying “it looks like you already posted that!”? I had something end up in moderation. I was able to post after that, but once I tried to reply to another post I got the vanishing post issue.
I tried a different browser and tried restarting the browser – didn’t help.
I assume things may clear up after my moderated post is freed. It’s in Betty’s “It’s Not Just the “Optics” That Suck” thread.
Help?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mike J
What did the fathers of all these murderous cops do to them to make them so hair triggered?
Roger Moore
@Tommy:
This is nonsense. Of course most of our discourse about race is nonsense. There may be some “scientific” definitions of race that make use of detailed physical measurements to attempt to determine somebody’s racial background but:
A) They’re just as much a load of crap as the rest of our thoughts about race, and
B) They have little to do with race as it affects people’s treatment by society at large, which leans very heavily on obvious visible things like skin color and hair texture (and presence of an epicanthic fold) to determine race.
And, to be even more obvious, hair and skin color are obviously strongly affected by genetics. Genetics isn’t the whole story, but it’s obviously a huge part of it, which is precisely why common, street variety racists use them to determine who to hate.
dmbeaster
Rivera is the poster child of infotainment media. He has no particular morals or ethics. He spouts on Fox what the producers want the audience to hear, which Rivera knows without being briefed. He is an actor who already knows his lines. It guarantees many return gigs. This episode is another example of the blight and pestulence of Fox and the boot-licks that happily mouth its bigotry.
pluege
Just look at that Tim McVeigh blowing up that federal building, where the hell was his dad?”
You’re missing what went on here:
the cop went after Michael Brown because he wasn’t on the sidewalk.
the cop went after Eric Garner for nothing
The white guys your cite are criminals. The cops are going after Black guys who aren’t criminals; they’re instigating and escalating the violence. And bottom line, they’re shooting unarmed people that couldn’t shoot at them even if they wanted too. This has no similarity with white terrorists and crazy gun fetishists.
Howlin Wolfe
What a bleepin’ idjit that Geraldo is. His is the same non-sequitur gibberish that all the cons babble at some point: If Black people weren’t so blackity-black, the cops wouldn’t gun down unarmed, innocent African American males. Wuh? So if their daddies were just around more, somehow the cops wouldn’t get trigger happy when they see a scary Negro of the opposite race?
Why do people like Geraldo get to be on TV and spouse this utter nonsense? Oh, right, wing-nut welfare.
Howlin Wolfe
@Kryptik, A Man Without A Country: Didn’t know super novae hated. I thought they just radiated. But if a super nova rants as righteously as you did, I say, “go Nova!”
The Other Bob
Hell, white dudes need a whole culture change. As a white guy, I say if there is a broken culture in America, it is white, male culture. White males are so scared that they needs to stock up on guns? or parade around with one on their hip? Please. What kind of coward thinks that is acceptable? White males disengaging from society, becoming more rural, not getting an education, blaming the government and minorities for their problems? White men need to suck it up and be responsible.
Shit, that is a cultural problem.
jayjaybear
The fact that Kurt Vonnegutt also despised Rivera (who was his son-in-law for a while) makes me feel like I’m a member of a really high-class club.
ruemara
I never knew a single black kid who grew up without a father. I knew several white and latino ones. I have no idea what black America looks like to Fox news and others, but it seems to be Jungle Mad Max with a rap soundtrack
Heliopause
“We’re the problem.”
This wouldn’t be nearly as offensive if we got CIA agents to wear that tee shirt.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@ruemara:
IIRC, the reason Trayvon Martin was inside that gated community was because he was visiting his father and stepmother. So I guess Rivera would say that his father should have been less involved in his life so Trayvon wouldn’t have been there to get killed in the first place.
Heads I win, tails you lose.
Visceral
@Another Holocene Human:
I’ve always wondered whether it was not skin, eye, or even hair color (and texture), but rather facial features that prompt the instinctive “othering” of people – especially the formulation “different = wrong“; could significantly different features be interpreted by the reptile brain as a deformity? – since even darkly tanned white people are still regarded as “white”.
The Other Chuck
@Visceral: Not “deformity” so much as merely that tribalism forms along ethnic lines, so a foreign ethnicity marks someone as an outsider who has potentially come to steal your food/riches/women and therefore Not To Be Trusted.
Ruckus
@ruemara:
I have no idea what black America looks like to Fox news and others, but it seems to be Jungle Mad Max with a rap soundtrack.
They have no idea what black America looks like. They have no idea what working America looks like. They have no idea what reality looks like. All they have in their pin heads is a picture that would make Norman Rockwell say WTF. It never occurs to them that the picture in their heads is the real nightmare. That picture is white and green, not black and white, not 16 million colors, white and green, the color they see in the mirror and green, the color they see in their bank accounts.
Timurid
Things would have worked out so much better if Darren Wilson’s dad had taken him fishing more…
Tree With Water
“Violence is as American as cherry pie”, and always has been. The gloves have come off domestically in 2014, is all.
The political nihilists of the republican party are hell bent on the rule or ruin of American democracy today, now, and by any means necessary. It is a party that embraces torture, for tortures sake. It plots and wages war for corporate profits sake. There is no crime it is unprepared to commit in the pursuit of power. The republican party is the mortal enemy of humanity, and that is the truth.
Rivera? Murdoch’s morning stool possesses more integrity than Rivera. It has a better personality, too.
LAC
@Yatsuno: THIS!!
SWMBO
@CONGRATULATIONS!: The mustache probably survives. The nose, maybe not:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geraldo_%28TV_series%29#Brawl
jimbo57
Have another slice of that pound cake, fool.
brantl
How many different ways are there to tell that dumbass, Geraldo, to eat a bag of salted dicks? Not enough for him to get it, finally, I’m guessing.