Guess who helped President Obama whip the shitty budget bill through the House? JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon:
JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon made calls to lawmakers on Thursday urging them to support the “cromnibus” spending bill, House Financial Services Committee ranking member Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) told reporters.
Dimon’s involvement came amidst progressives enraged that the House “cromnibus” included a provision that they said would weaken Wall Street regulations.
“I think we got hurt when Jamie Dimon and the president started to whip,” Waters told reporters after the vote. “That’s when I think we lost some votes.”
[snip]Waters and progressives opposed the budget due to changes to the 2010 Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Law that were supported by Dimon and other big banks.
“What does it say? It just seems very odd,” Waters said. “It is just very strange that the two of them would be working for the support of this bill.”
When asked if she thought that Obama had sold out to Wall Street, Waters replied: “That’s not for me to determine. I know that the president was whipping. I know that Jamie Dimon was whipping and calling directly into members’ offices. And that’s odd. That’s an odd combination.”
For fuck’s sake. This is the kind of bullshit that could convince impressionable young voters that there’s no point in casting a ballot, even if you and I know better.
Can someone please explain why supporting this crappy bill was good for Democrats? A reason besides the threat of an even shittier bill squeezing between the cheeks of a Republican controlled Congress in 2015? That’s some weak-ass sauce.
ruemara
It ain’t good for Democrats. Not in the least. All it is, is a hedge against a worse budget battle next year. But I’d have preferred letting the incoming Congress of Yahoos give in to their freakery than this milquetoast, trying to keep a functioning government going, BS. That also being said, no SS, no EU, no bennies at all, just before Christmas. Those are some optics.
Elizabelle
Can they fix this shit sandwich (somewhat) in the Senate?
Because it is appalling.
SatanicPanic
Obama probably weighed ‘government shutdown’ against some parts of the bill that a handful of liberals would be angry about but most people wouldn’t understand and figured the former was worse for Democrats because if the government can’t even stay open then there’s no reason to believe it can do anything.
schrodinger's cat
They have all learned the wrong lesson from the latest election results.
Spinwheel
Why don’t you ask Zandar? He’ll defend any flavor of Obama shitting on us.
Villago Delenda Est
Obama is never going to convince the GOP that he’s white by siding with vile parasite Jamie Dimon.
LAC
Now why do we have a shitty bill? Could it have been that voters were convinced not to bother in 2010 because of some other bee in blogosphere bonnet about about something that has to be the president’s fault and we handed over the House control to asshats that are going to SURPRISE! shove through shitty bills? And our response is to what? Do the both sides do it dance again and make angry face at the shit we just helped poop out? Really?
SP
KDrum says: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/12/heres-what-democrats-got-out-cromnibus
His pull quotes:
-agreed to keep the provision in exchange for more funding for the Commodity Futures Trading Commission
-Implementing the Affordable Care Act, there’s a lot more money for early-childhood development — the only priority that got cut was the EPA but we gave them more money than the administration asked for….There were 26 riders that were extreme and would have devastated the Environmental Protection Agency in terms of the Clean Water and Clean Air Act administration; all of those were dropped. There were only two that were kept and they wouldn’t have been implemented this fiscal year. So, we got virtually everything that the Democrats tried to get.
-adequately funding national security requirements. The Administration also appreciates the authorities and funding provided to enhance the U.S. Government’s response to the Ebola epidemic, and to implement the Administration’s strategy to counter the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, as well as investments for the President’s early education agenda, Pell Grants, the bipartisan Manufacturing Institutes initiative, and extension of the Trade Adjustment Assistance program.
Villago Delenda Est
@Spinwheel: Ah, our local Imperial Lizard has been heard from, making a rare appearance in a non-Zandar thread.
I am certain that somewhere there is a fire burning, right now, that you could go and die in.
Please make haste to that location.
And have a wonderful day!
EconWatcher
“the threat of an even shittier bill squeezing between the cheeks of a Republican controlled Congress in 2015”
This is the kind of eloquence that keeps me coming back. Does this just roll from your figurative pen, or do you have to work at it? (No snark, to be clear; I love and admire this kind of writing.)
Cacti
@Spinwheel:
Why don’t you ask Zandar? He’ll defend any flavor of Obama shitting on us.
Have you ever stopped to think that maybe the amount of time you spend thinking and talking about Zandar is just a bit unhealthy?
Iowa Old Lady
I found this bill very depressing. It’s the kind of thing that makes people look away from politics because it’s so ugly.
Thoroughly Pizzled
Bleurgh. I know why Obama is doing this, but I hate giving in to terrorists’ demands.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
Another variation on the comments above is here:
IOW, “a bad bill now is better than a worse bill later (maybe after a shut-down)” is not an argument to be dismissed lightly.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
LAC
@Villago Delenda Est: something tells me spincycle would fuck that up. It is like a bad version of “fatal attraction” – “I won’t be ignored, Zannnnnn!”
Betty Cracker
@Cacti: As you know, I think you’re a jackass, and I’m sure the feeling is mutual. But when you’re right, you’re right.
Mart
Obama will also inspire team D with passage of the Trans Pacific Partnership. In many ways he is an old school blue dog/Clintonite.
Karen in GA
@Cacti: Meh. M_C was more entertaining.
Kryptik, A Man Without a Country
@Thoroughly Pizzled:
This. I know it’s to stave off an even worse jitfest come Jan., but it still demonstrates that the operative definition of “bipartisanship” is “giving in to Republican tantrums for virtually nothing back”
balconesfault
Obama may or may not be in the hip pockets of Wall Street. I really can’t tell.
But I do know that first and foremost, Obama wants to be running a government that hasn’t been gutted thanks to, as LAC points out, voters electing and re-electing a GOP House which really would be quite happy to gut the government if they can’t get some financial rewards for their overlords.
And the list SP puts out there is not bad, considering that the House GOP would have been happy to drop a steaming turd on Obama’s desk that slashed EPA, ACA, and a lot of other budgets and dared him to veto.
Whether he’s in WS pockets or not – he’s clearly been playing defense while trying to keep the lights on over and over since about 2011 … as long as Tea Partiers seem convinced that these GOP hacks have their best interests at heart and Dems don’t turn out to vote we’re screwed.
burnspbesq
Insured banks being able to trade the same derivatives that their uninsured subsidiaries can already trade is the hill you want to die on? That requires a bit of explaining.
burnspbesq
@burnspbesq:
ETA: And keep in mind that it’s deposit insurance we’re talking about. If a bank goes toes-up because of bad bets on derivatives, the government money goes to the depositors, not the shareholders or the bondholders. Whether they get bailed out is a completely separate issue.
samiam
The answer is….elections have consequences. This is what people voted for. Or in the case of the laser dot chasers here and at douche troughs like dkos, what they didn’t show up to vote for.
If the conclusion you are drawing up from all this is that it will ispire even more people to not vote you have lost the plot.
FlipYrWhig
So… why not just draw up a bill in the next Congress that puts the derivative thing back the way it was? Even if Boehner won’t introduce it or however that works.
Violet
@Karen in GA: No kidding. Hey, how’s Iggy? Did he make the calendar?
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Karen in GA: But what does Izzy think?
Betty Cracker
@burnspbesq: Because the “insurance” is our tax dollars and I don’t want to be stuck with the bill the next time some asshole bank decides to play roulette with the pension fund? But that’s just one of the crap provisions in this shit bill.
JMV Pyro
@SP:
So basically, it’s another one of those compromise bills that everyone is going to hate for their own reasons.
The entire issue is one big mess You either shut down the government or you pass a shitty bill with a bunch of milquetoast deregulation in it. I’m just preying we don’t get another GLB or Welfare Reform in the next two years. That’d be a nightmare.
MomSense
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
I will cosign that comment.
D58826
@SP: @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: From the Mother Jones article
. sounds like the same problem with all the democrats who ran away from Obama before the election (and still lost) or those who refuse to defend/explain Obamacare.
I plead guilty to feeling that the D’s had caved again when I first heard the news about the poison pills. Figured that in the next election cycle I would just give my money to the RNC rather than wasting time and having it filtered thru the DNC. But there was a little voice that kept saying Obama got a pretty good deal in some of the other budget showdowns, once the fine print was read. Looks like that may be the case again.
The larger point remains the democrats have to be willing to stand up and defend what they are doing. If they offer the voters nothing then the voters will either stay home or vote for the party that seems to be offering them something. Even if that something turns out to be all smoke and no mirrors.
Dcrefugee
I’m not apologizing for any of the players — bad provision, and whoever put it in there is not on my side.
But it’s a relatively small portion of a much larger bill that keeps things limping along. It’s symbolic of one of the things that are wrong with U.S. politics and bad policy to boot. A major part of the problem is the leaderships (R and D) keep allowing unrelated (and non-germane in the Senate) crap like this in large, must-pass budget and appropriation bills. I guarantee there’s other stuff in this bill me and other commenters here wouldn’t like, either, BTW. This banking provision just got all the attention. Diversionary Tactics 101…
This may have been the best deal all the players could put together. But this banking provision’s passage is the outcome “they” wanted…
Kay
Bravo. My two eldest are in that age bracket and they are not disillusioned with The President, that’s WAY too narrow, they are increasingly convinced that many institutions are corrupt.
Are they wrong? What am I supposed to say to them?
I mean Jesus Christ. The NYTimes now has a continuing series on completely corrupt and captured state AG’s. There are a LOT of them. They’re fucking bragging about their trips with lobbyists on the front page of the newspaper.
They must think they’re untouchable and maybe they are! I sure as hell don’t know who is going to stop them. A prosecutor? They are the prosecutor.
Tractarian
Tell that to millions of federal employees who would be suddenly unemployed in the event of a government shutdown.
To you and me, it’s an abstraction – hell, I don’t even use any National Parks or the Post Office – but it’s real to those people.
JPL
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: So when they present a budget bill next year to the President, he should sign it? That bill will have more wall street goodies and the President can either veto it, and shut down the government or sign it. I still think the time was now to challenge the Republicans.
negative 1
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: It should be mandatory to get that sentence tattooed on your arm before commenting on politics.
Here’s the thing, for everyone who can’t understand why any politician didn’t hold out for the *perfect* deal. Grab all of the coworkers you can find, at least 50 of them. Tell them you’ve ordered lunch for all of them. They are allowed to change the menu, order from a different restaurant, pick literally anything they want, the only stipulation being they have to vote on it in an hour. All you can do is say no to their choice. What do you bet your order isn’t what arrives?
Violet
@D58826:
QFT. Democrats run away from everything they do. It’s kind of shocking how timid they are. People want to vote FOR something and someone. Be for something, vote for that something, and speak in support of it. That goes a lot farther than running away from all your votes.
Betty Cracker
@JPL: Exactly.
JPL
@Betty Cracker: We need to play a game of kick the can.
Kay
@negative 1:
If Democrats don’t know that this is absolutely lethal to their credibility on the “middle class” by now they live on another planet. It’s not endless, trust. They can deplete that supply.
Mandalay
@Cacti:
Heh. That’s exactly what I think about your bizarre obsession with Glenn Greenwald. Pot-kettle and all that.
BGinCHI
I agree, Betty. This is not compromise I can believe in.
It’s capitulation.
Fuck Wall St.
LAC
@Tractarian: oh honey, I doubt we are even a blip on the radar of posturing purity. A year ago, people were shocked to learn that national park service was a federal agency and yes would have to shut down operations, that SS and Medicare are federal programs or that federal workers could actually be your tax paying neighbors, rather than some ectoplasm that materializes in an office to “destroy the rights and freedoms that real amurricans enjoy”. And that maybe weeks go by without pay was not fun.
And yet, in Florida, Scary ET is still governor. And we are still going to sell the message that just doesn’t matter to vote because …? That is the lesson we got out of this?
KG
@Kay:
look at the last decade or two… The Catholic Church covering up sexual abuse. Military and CIA torture programs. Congress unwilling/unable to do its job. The UN Security Council approving Bush’s war resolution even though all of their own intelligence showed that it was unfounded. The EU nearly collapsing because of German economic requirements on smaller nations. The entire banking system nearly imploding. The VA failing to “take care of our veterans”. Several automotive companies nearly going bust. The legal system failing/refusing to indict police officers for unlawful/illegal violence.
Institutions have been failing for a while now. There haven’t been any voices to fight against the corruption and failure, so it’s easy to look at the system and say “fuck it.” Just keep your head down and hope you can find a little joy in the short time you have on this planet.
MomSense
@Violet:
There is another way to read this which is that Congress critters are unapologetic self promoters with wet index fingers constantly held up to see which way the wind is blowing. If a voting bloc is not reliable, these critters will not go out on a limb and be for something that a more reliable voting bloc is against.
As voters we have to vote every damned time in order to have them even begin to pay attention to us.
Cacti
@Mandalay:
Heh. That’s exactly what I think about your bizarre obsession with Glenn Greenwald. Pot-kettle and all that.
And yet, the one bringing him up in this wholly unrelated thread is you.
SatanicPanic
@Kay: yeah but who pays any attention to this? probably not that many
CONGRATULATIONS!
It may be “weak-ass sauce”, but those were your only two choices, unless being enslaved by unicorns was an option.
Dems didn’t show up in 2010. Dems again did not show up in 2014. What the fuck did you think was going to happen? That the GOP was going to just roll over and pass a bill we would like? Shit, be grateful they’re not having all the libs and queers report to the FEMA camps on Monday morning, because that’s the kind of crap you can look forward to for the next few years.
Mandalay
@Cacti:
No, I’m bringing up your blatant hypocrisy on display in this thread. You want to comment on someone else’s obsessive posting while conveniently ignoring your own.
Cacti
@Mandalay:
No, I’m bringing up your blatant hypocrisy on display in this thread. You want to comment on someone else’s obsessive posting while conveniently ignoring your own.
Cool, I have my own Spinwheel.
JMV Pyro
@KG:
The first part I agree with. People are losing confidence in institutions because the institutions on the whole are utterly failing at the job they’re supposed to do. Hell, Congress can barely keep the lights on anymore.
The second part is where I disagree. I think giving up is precisely what the nihilists want us all to do. Keep are heads down even though we know it’s all bullshit is exactly how these malignant systems perpetuate themselves. There are people out there fighting against all the corruption, but they’re scattered and don’t have a unifying message and the media is actively working against them. That doesn’t make the change impossible, it just means we need to start thinking a bit more creatively.
Tommy
I hate to admit this but I have long ago came to the conclusion Obama and the Democrats in general have two choices. (1) Sign a bill like this or (2) Drop the mic, walk off the House floor, and left the Republicans drive the government over a cliff.
My problem is, given the day of the week, I can change which they should do.
negative 1
@Kay: Which is fine but occasionally people like to pass bills because they believe the content is better than the alternative of waiting until the next congress, and getting guys like Dimon helps whip those votes. No one can complain about the ‘horse race’ style of political coverage and then worry about optics.
If the bill is bad, say it’s bad specifically — I’m with Burnspesq that there are already ways around the provision that Obama agreed to gut, making it a useful trade chip and honestly increasing CFTC funding is a tradeoff I’d make, too. Is Dimon a bad guy? Of course. Does his presence make this a bad bill? I’d argue no, and the post doesn’t even bother trying to argue that point.
jnfr
I’m actually encouraged that we saw some serious pushback from Warren and Pelosi. Much better than the nothingburger we’ve seen in the past.
dww44
@burnspbesq: You have good points, but Simon Johnson, in his occasional posts to an email newsletter I receive says this:
http://baselinescenario.com/2014/12/10/dont-repeal-swaps-push-out-requirements-section-716-of-dodd-frank/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BaselineScenario+%28The+Baseline+Scenario%29
Rommie
I think there’s another shoe to drop – the Immigration fight in a couple of months. While I’m down with defending all the hills, this pile of poo might just allow for the Shiny in Round 2. OIWTBHSUO, not quite yet, let’s see the Second Act.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@JPL:
Mikulski is arguing pretty forcefully that it’s a good bill:
Few details, of course. It is “TheHill” after all…
More than just about anything, Obama want the Congress to work as a body that deliberates and compromises. If they send him a budget as a result of that process, he’ll sign it even if he doesn’t like some of the provisions.
So yes, the FY16 budget is very likely to be worse than this one. And yes, he’ll likely sign it.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
El Caganer
I can’t get really excited about this, since the next couple of years are going to see bills that are far, far worse.
SatanicPanic
@CONGRATULATIONS!: lol seriously I’m actually surprised they didn’t add more crazy stuff to this. there’s always next year I guess
Hill Dweller
Obama had 3 options: 1) Shut down the government(with no real exit strategy) 2) sign a 60 day continuing resolution at current funding levels, but the Republicans will have control of both the House and Senate by that point 3) sign the CRomnibus
The Senate can still try to take out some of the worst parts of the bill, but it still doesn’t change the fact Republicans have time on their side. They’re happy to wait till next year to write the funding bill.
Zandar
“The left has to understand that when it comes to politics, Republicans are better at it than we are.”
Until that changes we’ll be having this same argument every other December.
Tommy
@SatanicPanic: Same here. I feel like past history shows we’ll blink. In a game of chicken, we pull off the road. Maybe not always, but most of the time. Therefore, and I am sure somebody that is an expert on game theory could explain it better, they are not worried we won’t blink again. So they do stuff like this time and time again knowing we’ll just accept it. I have no idea how we change this dynamic, but somebody smarter then myself needs to figure it out yesterday!
Linnaeus
Did the president have a better choice?
KG
@JMV Pyro: oh, i agree it’s worth fighting for, but when you’re 24, with $40,000 worth of student loan debt, trying to hold down a job, find a spouse, and maybe add on more debt in the form of a mortgage… it’s hard to add “fight the corrupt establishment” to the list. And when you’re in your 30s and now have that mortgage, and see that the principal on your student loan debt is still at $35,000, and now are going to events for your kids, well…
patrick II
I suppose what frosts me the most about change to the Dodd-Frank bill is that the republicans ran in part a populist campaign based on helping working people, or at least white working people, economically, and to get government removed from big spending. So the first chance the republicans get they add a change to Dodd–Frank that allows banks to speculate with government insured money, insuring that if the banks screw up, the taxpayers will pay for it.
Democrats lost an election, so they don’t get everything they want now and I understand that. But at least what the Republicans get should have some relationship to what they say they wanted and campaigned for instead of potentially more government spending to support risky Wall Street speculators.
KG
@Linnaeus: other than flipping everyone the bird and not running for re-election in 2012? probably not.
Betty Cracker
@Tommy:
That’s the problem. The Republicans are credible when they threaten to walk away. The Democrats aren’t.
@jnfr: That serious push-back is the only ray of light in this shitshow.
ruemara
@Kay:
I’d almost ask are you kidding, because institutions have been corrupt since Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to a church door.
You need to say, yes, yes they are. Now ask yourself why are they corrupt and work from there.
This bill happened because common people abdicated on voting. Not in 2014, not in 2010, go way back to the late 70’s/early 80’s. They left their ability to reason behind because they were being told what they wanted. Protest theatre and security theatre have been elevated over real protest and real security. Hell yeah, this is a shit sandwich and yeah, Jamie Fucking Dimon! but, as a person who has personally seen all the agencies that a shutdown would affect, at a critical time of year-yeah, I see why it happened. All the disaffected boo hoo chorus is irritating. I may agree with the sentiment, but damn, skippy, the not showing up has taught every single even moderately progressive politician that if they want to keep being in power to do damn near anything, they have to appeal to the reliable voters. NO, your once every 4 years voters are not worth building on, because you have no idea if they’ll show up again, ever. Even Obama didn’t win with regular voters, he won with new voters, first timers. So, enjoy the suck. Our choices will be a shit sandwich and a shittier sandwich, even if Democrats regain Senate, House and WH. Why? They know their “base” is so inconsistent, they’ll be undermined at the first mid-term, low turnout election.
Tripod
Stay out of sausage factories.
I do enjoy the netroots echo chamber timeline where Americans know who the fuck Jamie Dimon is, and are ready with pitchforks and torches.
Bob In Portland
“A philosophy or system of government that advocates or exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with an ideology of belligerent nationalism.”
Not yet, right? Let me know when it’s official.
Tommy
@KG: And some would argue putting people in that position is the point of it all. I am different. 45. Never married (not so happy about this, but it is what it is). Mortgage paid off. No student loans. Car paid off. No credit card debt. Own my own business. It is easy for me to be here. Campaign. Go door-to-door. Make phone calls.
I’d have to think so much harder for many others. I hate when I hear the American public are stupid. They are not stupid, they just uninformed because they don’t have as much free time as I do to read, because well they are providing for their families.
MomSense
@ruemara:
Well said.
nastybrutishntall
Let’s all light ourselves on fire to protest a couple of meh things in a bill that mostly does what we want it to do, after we’ve convinced ourselves it was going to be far worse and a total sellout.
/day that ends in “y”.
Comrade Luke
I haven’t read all the comments here here yet, but I’m sure it’s all the fault of the Millennials, and the people who didn’t vote.
Anyone but Obama. Anyone.
And whatever you do, vote for Hillary, because REPUBLICANS!
Just Some Fuckhead
Obama is with us on everything except the war.
Frankensteinbeck
@Betty Cracker:
The Republicans WANT a car crash. This is something of an advantage playing chicken.
artem1s
Not happy about the craptacular banking lobby bill passing but this happen too. Waiting for the President’s signature. I blame Obama.
Congress Just Passed A Law Requiring Police Departments To Count How Many People They Shoot
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/12/3602641/congress-just-passed-a-bill-that-could-change-the-game-on-what-we-know-about-police-shootings/
srv
Liz Warren blames Obama for being Citigroup’s biotch.
We should burn her with all those millieneals.
Kay
@negative 1:
If the Wall Street provision was so minor and inconsequential then why was Dimon worried enough to work so hard for it?
He obviously felt pretty strongly about it, huh? Maybe not so “minor”
Betty Cracker
@nastybrutishntall: “Meh”? That’s not the word I’d use to describe provisions that roll back Dodd-Frank reforms, inject more money into a cash-and-carry political process and undermine worker protections. YMMV.
Hill Dweller
House Republicans weren’t going to move the bill further left. They’d either pass a short term continuing resolution at current funding levels or let the government shut down. They’ve never paid a political price for their extremism. Why would that change 2 years from now?
srv
Talk about optics problems.
I blame millennials.
Violet
@patrick II:
Ha ha. You’re adorable. The Republicans know exactly how to sell things to the American people to get their votes. Then they turn around and do whatever the hell they want to serve rich people and corporations. They’ve been doing it for decades. Why would it be any different now?
keestadoll
@Tractarian: but…they got paid retroactively. I don’t think the same can be said for those in the private sector who will get SCREWED with many of the provisions in this shit bill. Am I wrong?
Tommy
@Frankensteinbeck: LOL of course they do no matter how terrible that is to say. Pretty sure I said “car crash” and “chicken” here first. Look if in our relationship I said you have to do this. You say no. I say, nope you will. Most of the time you bend to my will. Do you not think I won’t do that over and over again.
Carolinus
You’ve put a spin on what was reported in that Hill article to imply coordination. It doesn’t say anything about Dimon working with Obama. It just says Dimon lobbied for it the bill too (as surely did hundreds of other groups and individuals).
LAC
@Betty Cracker: you mean things that people were concerned about happening if republicans got control of the House?
This is what this outrage reminds me of – http://youtu.be/wAjHfBk-ZeY
Violet
@srv: Saw that on the news this morning. Jeez, they’re stupid. And way to completely undermine whatever their point was by getting the whole world pissed off at you. Dumbass Greenpeace.
Bobby Thomson
@Hill Dweller:
Shit, that’s a no-brainer. All you unicorn-curious bronies let me know when you’ve stopped playing with the underpants gnomes.
KG
@Violet: dude, the aliens are going to be pissed when they come back
RP
LOUD NOISES
Frankensteinbeck
@Tommy:
And if I stick to ‘no’ and you kill us both, oddly enough I also do not win. Hostage negotiations are tough, and are not about drawing lines in the sand. A large contingent of Republican congressmen want to shut down the government, and indeed default on the debt. They want it. They think that’s victory. So, what’s your proposed solution to someone pointing a gun at you who WANTS to pull the trigger?
Just Some Fuckhead
You purity leftists don’t seem to understand that America overwhelmingly voted for the Republican agenda a few weeks ago. Obama isn’t President of the Democrats. He’s President of America and he has to stand up for what a voting majority of Americans wants.
LAC
@keestadoll: excuse me? Federal pension plans are being played around in this bill as well. Retroactive pay is not a guarantee and having to go into savings to cover bills that are still coming in during that time was not a “so what?” Who the fuck you think the middle class is? Federal workers are not a part of that?
patrick II
@Violet:
I know you are right, but it still frosts me.
Josie
@Betty Cracker: But the Republicans can afford to walk away because they don’t care if the government caves in. It’s what they want; they are nihilists. Democrats actually care what happens to the government and the people who depend upon it. You cannot get over on nihilists. The only way to beat them is to vote them out of office and we didn’t do that.
Kay
@ruemara:
I said after the midterms that I don’t think blaming voters is the best idea for a political party. I don’t. I don’t know where you go with that.
It reminds me Democrats traveling the country telling people there is a “skills gap”. I perceived it as a lecture, advice instead of help, and I have a job and am doing okay. It comes off as “politicians are deeply disappointed with the quality of the US workforce”
The whole “if we just had better voters” sounds like “if we just had better workers”
.
Betty Cracker
@Bobby Thomson: So where would you draw the line? What odious poison pill amendment would be a bridge too far for you, personally? We know it’s not re-empowering Wall Street to play casino backed by taxpayer funds, enabling wealthy individuals to pour even more money into federal elections or scrapping safety standards, so what provision would suck enough to convince you it’s worth going to the mat to oppose them?
Bobby Thomson
@Kay: Of course, you don’t blame them in public. But when polls consistently show that Americans prefer actual liberal policies, while at the same time signing onto all sorts of Republican platitudes, there’s an obvious cognitive error. Call it stupidity if you want. (I do.) Call it something benign. But it’s a fact, and ignoring it doesn’t do anyone any good, either.
ruemara
@Kay: We need better and more informed voters. I hear from a ton of liberals who have no idea that a bill has not passed just because it passed in the House. Who have no idea of the correlation of local laws and regulations versus federal jurisdiction. I’m a barely hanging on artist. Not that smart. But I do ask questions. All that time I spent working for a government agency, I asked all the questions I could. My disdain for most of what passes as activism and journalism is because I can see that they aren’t even trying to ask a question much less educate people with an answer. Damn right I blame voters. They’ve been hearing forever that it’s not their fault government sucks, it’s parties and politicians who aren’t catering to them properly. Fuck no, you leave the kitchen, you can’t complain when you get served. Fuck it. You backed out because you didn’t get everything you wanted. How did that work out for the past 40 years? Sucks to be called on things, en masse, right? Too bad. Want something different, then you stand in that sausage factory and commandeer the process from start to finish. Otherwise, unless you can get paid to whine professionally, bugger off. The next 2 years are going to kill people, people for whom getting to vote had massive obstacles. I can’t sympathize with people who sit things out because GMO/Vaccines/EO pony.
Bobby Thomson
@Betty Cracker:
When did you get so emoprog? It’s not as though we wouldn’t have wound up with all those things and worse if we said “Screw you! Bring on the shutdown!”
When do you face down a nest of machine guns armed with a ping pong paddle? When death is a certainty either way.
Archon
The idea that Dems could get wiped out in the midterms and not have to make any concessions to the oligarchs and radicals running the Republican Party is silly. Obama has already made clear his priorities and proven he’s prepared to go to the mattresses over the ACA, his immigration orders, and the bad tax deal Reid and Schumer were working on.
So Obama can make concessions with Republicans now on things that don’t directly hurt working people or he can play hardball and hope Republicans get blamed for the shutdown and eventually back down, even though a larger and more radical GOP caucus is coming in January.
Shitty choices both but he chose the former. The real morale to this story is elections have consequences.
Bobby Thomson
@Betty Cracker: My response quoted a banned word that I can’t believe FYWP allowed you to post.
Bobby Thomson
@Archon: This, man, this.
Corner Stone
@Frankensteinbeck:
But it’s always this rationale. And it’s completely bogus. All of the R leadership was not merely signaling that they didn’t want a shutdown, they repeatedly stated there would be no shutdown.
And that means Democratic votes on bills.
Why do we keep throwing away any vestige of leverage we have, time and again, and then keep hearing bullshit about how powerless we were and we HAD to take this bill?
And then we get to hear how it’s really a pretty good bill afterall, also too!
Kay
@ruemara:
I know it’s a basic disagreement but I think “love wins”. You can’t threaten people into participating. There’s a huge difference between turning out voters (the mechanical part of making sure the sporadic voters in the base come out) and threatening or shaming them into getting involved.
One is difficult but can be done with a data-based, door to door grind and the other won’t work at all.
keestadoll
@LAC: Why are you arguing with me? I said it’s a shit bill and it IS on many levels, including but not limited to the pension issue you mentioned (I, the wife of a merchant mariner who falls into the multi-employer pension arena, am KEENLY aware of the bill’s sections on pension plans. A “shut down” could have been averted with a short-term CR as well thus sidestepping any risk of pay loss/postponement you mentioned. But, and I’ll say it again, federal employees (at the very least) can expect (how’s that-? not “guarantee”) that they will be retroactively paid while private sector employees definitely and glaringly do not. In fact, there has never been an instance where federal employees were not retroactively paid for the duration of their furlough (the longest of which lasted 3 weeks 1995).Of course these employees are middle class (I never said they weren’t), but please don’t equate their loss of work (as past instances have been documented) with private sector loss of work where there is no understanding or expectation that there will be retroactive pay–ever.
Kryptik, A Man Without A Country
@Kay:
I still feel like, for all that “love wings”, fear wins more. Threatening voters directly doesn’t work. But making them feel threatened by ‘the other’ works fucking wonders. Love might make you loyal, but Fear motivates.
Corner Stone
Just like this guy on Joy Reid’s show said, four biggest banks control 90% of all derivative trading. The four too big to fail banks that wrecked all our global shit just a few short years ago.
Jamie Dimon was twisting arms for this bill to pass for a reason. Until he comes out lobbying for a bill that feeds poor kids and fully funds Obamaphones!, I’m not going to give any of his actions the benefit of the doubt.
Kay
@ruemara:
I’ll just give you a small, local example. We did a really narrow, focused GOTV for sporadic voters for a school levy. Find them, get them out to vote. That’s hard but it’s absolutely achievable. What isn’t achievable would be “you should care about this! your kids go there! what’s wrong with you?”
Corner Stone
@Tommy:
*Awkward*
srv
Creed frontman is a CIA agent and has orders to get Obama
Kryptik, A Man Without A Country
@Bobby Thomson:
It might be too harsh to call it stupidity, but it sure as hell qualifies for ignorance. Much of it willfully so.
Betty Cracker
@Bobby Thomson: My comments aren’t censored by FYWP since I have a set of keys to the joint. I sprung your comment, such as it was. I also noticed you didn’t answer the question, so I’ll ask it again: What provisions would you personally consider a bridge too far?
No bullshit parables about ping pong paddles and machine gun nests, please. Kindly list specific protections that you’d consider too core to cave on. As we’ve established, financial reform, limits on the amount wealthy individuals can pump into the electoral process and certain safety provisions didn’t make your cut, so I’m curious about what would.
LAC
@keestadoll: just as long as you stop assuming that the past dictates future actions. Shutting down a government in these troubled economic times is different and there are no guarantees about anything in federal workers lives. Elevating private sector woes above other workers is exactly why there is a disconnect. I have worked in both private and public sector and they each have their burdens.
D58826
Justice Scalia doesn’t think the Constitution addresses torture. Well there goes the 8th amendment
Another Holocene Human
Pres Obama is between a rock and a hard place, Betty. The next bill of this sort has to be passed with GOP Senate.
But you knew this.
Another Holocene Human
We all know this wouldn’t be the political calculus if DSCC was capable of turning out voters to the polls.
Bobby Thomson
@Betty Cracker: I’m not going to play that game because you’re positing a false dichotomy. Your recommended cause of action wouldn’t have prevented any of those things. But enjoy your tantrum.
Karen in GA
@Violet: July, right under Boo, the dissatisfied calico.
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Iggy’s cool with Zandar. He has his blind spots, though — he thinks all bipeds look alike. But in his case, it just results in a “Hooray! It’s you! You’re here!! THANK GOD!!!” reaction to every human within a hundred-yard radius.
There are worse kinds of ignorance in the world.
Mike in NC
Rest assured that Ayn Rand-loving sociopath Paul Ryan will be the author of the next federal budget, one that promises all Americans a free dose of Ebola or Anthrax (your choice).
Another Holocene Human
@keestadoll: Well you’re just wrong about the impact of shut downs and btw, yes I have had personal experience with that, my father was a private contractor employee to fed govt during Newt Gingrich’s Tantrum To America.
What happened during the last shutdown is that all of those underpaid low wage menial job staff as well as ancillary business sole proprietors that work in the the Federal Triangle got FUCKED UP THE ASS and President Obama had some contact and communication with them and was clearly very upset about it and unlike the contractor employees THOSE PEOPLE ARE POOR.
Pvt sector that works for gov’t gets fucked now, that’s the deal, it was always a rotten deal.
You know what? My dad getting laid off over and over was a lot worse for our family’s finances than the shutdown. He actually kept working for a while because the company had been paid up front for a certain amount of time.
First they came for union workers, and I didn’t speak up, because I was classed professional/managerial
Then they came for for middle management, and I didn’t speak up, because I had a skill that was still in demand following computerization
Then they came for the knowledge workers, and I didn’t speak up because those stupid nerds were too dumb to go to business school like me
The next step is pitchforks.
BerkeleyMom
If Jamie Dimon and his ilk are such Master of the Effing Universe, why can’t they run a business without taxpayers bailing them out? Obama’s a patsy.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Betty Cracker: Not Bobby, but I’ll throw in my $0.02.
Obama has to pick his battles. Consider the various efforts at installing riders to prevent DC and others from spending its own money on abortions.
ThinkProgress:
He can only play the hand he’s dealt and try to move things at the margins when he doesn’t have a majority. Obama’s got to look at the big picture. Maybe losing a skirmish here will let him win a bigger battle later…
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
Grr. In moderation again. :-(
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Holocene Human
@Mike in NC: Black media must have spent some quality time on Paul Ryan’s budget because some of my favorite Black political junkies in my life love to hate Paul Ryan and his granny starvin’ ways. While his lying in general comes up it’s his Ryan budget that really becomes the topic of conversation.
The FOX news watching white political junkies I’m unfortunately around seem completely oblivious. They don’t know about the Ryan budget.
The willing dupes of white supremacy will never connect grandma foreclosed on and eating cat food in a drafty rental to the people they vote for or at least fail to vote against. It must have been “Messicans”. Yeah. That’s the ticket.
Corner Stone
Lauren Fox with National Journal can go stuff it.
Sherparick
There is a reason that financial regulation is called “Dodd-Franks” and not ObamaBanking or something. During 2009-10, neither Obama, Rahm Emmauel, or Tim Geithner were very enthusiastic about the bill. It was essentially something that Chris Dodd, Barney Franks, Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters and Paul Volker pushed through and the Administration took it as a price to pay for the continued bank bail out authorizations.
Regarding the President, I don’t think “sold out” is quite correct. I think the better term is “intellectually captured,” and that happen long ago when he fell into the orbit of Robert Rubin and Rubin’s acolytes in “The Hamilton Project.” For a critical, but but not over the top, analysis of the “Hamilton Project,” Barack Obama, and the Neoliberal Democrats, see Simon Johnson’s post. http://baselinescenario.com/2010/03/03/after-the-hamilton-project/p
Another Holocene Human
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: You probably said a bad word. Naughty naughty.
It either had something to do with little tablets you can buy or sell which change your body when ingested, or one part of the body lots of people hope to change with such items, or with that thing where you pays your money and you takes your chances, or that Senator whose name sounds like the person who brokers the bets.
eta: Or you shared too many links with us–very naughty!
AxelFoley
@LAC:
BOOM!
But, why should these little bitch-ass progressives and liberals take responsibility for sitting out the last two midterm elections when they can just blame the black President for trying to keep things afloat while they let the GOP off the hook?
I can’t wait for January 2017 when President Obama hands the keys over to either the next Dem president or GOP fucker. Just want to see who these asswipes will blame then.
AxelFoley
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
/thread
Another Holocene Human
@Sherparick: Dodd and Franks hardly have clean hands themselves on anything banking related. Didn’t Dodd end up leaving the Senate in disgrace over taking we-don’t-call-it-a-bribe from Tangelo? Oh yes. Yes he did. Stupid me thought that was a high crime and/or misdemeanor.
And Rubin may suck but Obama ended up following extremely conventionballs advice about saving the economy WHICH FUCKING WORKED BY THE WAY so I’m kind of over the Austerian-influenced “fiscal conservative” banker suicide porn fans I used to fanboi online. THEY WERE WRONG.
It’s all good, we can see the Austerians theories in action in Europe. Didn’t work out financially or politically.
While we have our own neonazi shitheads they still can’t win a popular vote. Too bad our gov’t structure isn’t set up for popular govt. Over there their dildoes are winning popular votes. It can always be worse.
Obama came up in an era of community activism that wasn’t socialist/radical, it was, hey, a healthy economy is good, now we want to take away the barriers that prevented us from being a part of it. That has roots in the 70s and there was also a lot of work done around it in the 1990s. I was there, I saw how it worked out and at first there was a lot of success. Car loans are a lot less discriminatory for example, although there is definitely geographic discrimination in that poor people who aren’t very mobile get screwed. But the use of credit scores as opposed to “you look like a decent chap” has not only saved banks from a lot of bad loans but opened up access to small loans to millions who were trapped by being the wrong color in the wrong neighborhood.
There are a couple of overall problems with capitalism right now. They boil down to two issues: inequality, and perverse incentives. The first can be addressed with minimum wage and progressive taxation. Also a social safety net. Obama has pushed hard on all of this from day one and certainly has not stopped. The second has to do with the speculation that is rampant and ends up driving the economy in very destructive ways. A proposed measure would be a transaction tax. Obama has not really pushed in this area at all. He pushed from the side of consumer protection but we also need a govt/taxpayer global protection in terms of taking some of the air out of this nonsense, and that he hasn’t done. But to be fair, this is a hard sell. Industry insiders know it’s necessary, they’re less than 5% of the population. The 20% of Americans who own stocks probably think it’s a new tax on them (not really). The other 80% don’t even understand what’s being taxed. Occupy talked about it a little but got more focused on consumer side (sensing a pattern here?). The owners of the big banks don’t want it because FIRE speculation nets them bigger bonuses if the world burns down. GOP is agin’ it and few of the Dems are really for it.
Meh.
Larv
@LAC:
Also, only direct federal employees were reimbursed. I work for a contractor on a federal installation, and we got completely hosed. Couldn’t work because the facilities were closed, but didn’t get reimbursed because we aren’t “government employees”.
Betty Cracker
@Bobby Thomson: You think this is a tantrum? You must live on Planet Thorazine.
@Another Holocene Human: You’re right — the president was between a rock and a hard place, but this was a negotiation, and there were choices to make. Fellow emoprogs Maxine Waters, Nancy Pelosi, Elizabeth Warren, et al, said it was a mistake to cave, but whatevs. Perhaps this display of bipartisan cooperation will ultimately be rewarded by good faith negotiations with the next Congress.
Another Holocene Human
@BerkeleyMom: Such a patsy our economy is the worst in the G20 since 2008.
Oh wait…
Another Holocene Human
@Betty Cracker: Waters, Pelosi, and Warren all intend to run again and Obama does not, so there is that.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Another Holocene Human: There was probably a bad word in a quoted excerpt from the ThinkProgress story, but I don’t see it.
Oh well.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kay
@Kryptik, A Man Without A Country:
I don’t agree with that either. I think some people are motivated by fear and some people don’t respond to that at all. You see it with kids. Threats work not at all with some of them.
I just think “this– after all I’ve done for you!” is an absolute loser for a politician or political party. They can indulge in it if they want but it is going nowhere.
Advocates take sides, and part of a politicians’ job is “advocate”.
Another Holocene Human
@Kryptik, A Man Without A Country: But only GOP wins selling fear (and do they ever). Dems have to provide positive motivation.
Since the parties have sorted by psychological factors it’s not really surprising that differing psychology drives them.
If you make a Dem really fearful, they will vote GOP. Haven’t you met the “terror moms” who were lifelong Dems (hell, some of them have drifted back) but voted GOP during mid 2000s because Iran and nukes and 9/11?
Another Holocene Human
@Archon:
Shut down the thread.
Another Holocene Human
@ruemara: Righteous rant, ruemara. Love that metaphor about the kitchen.
And you really hit the nail on the head about being catered to. That seems to be the theme of my (GenX) generation.
I never agreed with that. I thought my peers were fools for not voting (with people like Jesse Helms in the Senate?!) and told them so.
LAC
@Larv: so true… I have friends who are federal contractors and lost money. Another news flash for some of our citizen idiots who were still confused about a federal park closing. Da gubbermint uses contractors and if da building is closed, they can’t work? Noooooo!!!!
Another Holocene Human
@srv: Sickening.
Another Holocene Human
@Betty Cracker: But that’s because Dem pols’ voters will punish them severely for brinkmanship whereas TEAGOP voters never will as long as a D is president.
burnspbesq
@dww44:
FWIW, I don’t like that provision. If I ruled the world for a day, banks whose depositors get FDIC insurance would see a return to the 1960s regulatory environment, and all the Goldmans of the world would be forced to go back to being general partnerships (on the theory that there’s nothing like unlimited personal liability to get people focused on proactively and effectively managing risk).
My only question was the tactical question.
Another Holocene Human
@JMV Pyro:
Like the 26 year Delta employee who complained to the media about how poorly the new employees were being paid during a union card drive/fight for fifteen campaign in I believe Minnesota. They say he won’t get his job back either although I don’t understand why he can’t appeal it to the Labor Dept.
Since NLRB is staffed again you can actually get your job back after being fired for union organizing, it’s kind of amazing. Although closing the business in spite is still going on …
Another Holocene Human
@burnspbesq: That is a very pleasant thought.
Kryptik, A Man Without A Country
@Kay:
Like I said, threatening them directly doesn’t work…but instilling the fear of the other, making them feel like there’s an immense, immediate threat from some outside force, and that only THEY can help stem the tide from the rampaging other? We’ve seen how well that fucking works for the GOP. It’s why they pretty much own the goddamn country at this point.
@Another Holocene Human:
This is…sadly true. I’m just pointing out that fear fucking works. It doesn’t work for us, but that’s the same reason I feel like those advocating that we learn from GOP’s example in some way and follow their tactics is just as doomed. And I don’t have the answer to how to counteract it either. Good policy is hard and complex, and hard to distill down into soundbites in the same way that simplistic, feel good pennywise pound foolish policy can be.
I honest to god don’t know how to fix that. And that terrifies the fuck out of me since it feels like that necessarily means that GOP will win for-fucking-ever this way.
nastybrutishntall
@Betty Cracker: It’s some bad meat in a sausage we’ll all find adequately palatable as we sit and watch the big game play.
But go ahead, fake your own suicide over it. Or, if history dictates anything, you will move on and forget it ever happened when the next Jim Jones slumber party at this blog gets started up in 5…4…3…
It won’t even make the aggregate of Your Favorite Obama Sellouts Vol XV
Another Holocene Human
@LAC: I was shocked how many blue collars/service workers working in federal triangle alone were contractors making shit wages and no bennies.
It’s bullshit and it’s a way to fuck Black people who overwhelmingly fill these jobs in the slave auction District.
Janitorial, cafeteria, why contractors? Think about it. Or don’t, you might never stop puking.
burnspbesq
@Another Holocene Human:
What, me ruling the world for a day? You might get some pushback on that.
Another Holocene Human
@Kryptik, A Man Without A Country: Altemeyer says an anecdote for authoritarian thinking in the followers (which is the majority, the NPD/APD freaks are the minority but gravitate to leadership roles, ew) is to have a life experience where you take a risk and stretch yourself but nothing bad comes of it.
It’s possible that we have a less authoritarian future coming since crime has significantly come down and has been down for a while.
The bad thing is that the fearful ones are in prime voting years right now. Being previously conditioned, it doesn’t take much (Ebola terror babies!!) to set them off.
There’s a new therapy technique for mood disorders out there call group awareness therapy, it’s something like Buddhist meditation but no cult membership required. It has an effect on the brain a little bit like taking LSD but milder. (No colors flowing down the wall but the bottom line is that you can get parts of the brain to talk to each other that didn’t before which is what LSD does as well.)
Imagine a way to tackle our anxieties without SSRIs. Or tranquilizers. Something like LSD but without having to fight DEA to get it.
As the research shows its effectiveness and with the mental health provisions in ACA see the insurers taking note.
Also the young people who took to the streets are learning. Occupy was a hot mess but it did change the conversation. See that some of the same people hit the streets again over racism and police brutality. Also I see the organizers of these marches were organizing again SYG. There’s a new generation of leaders being born here. And a whole generation who are getting positive reinforcement for mass demonstration. Oh and that might be one of those experiences that makes you less authoritarian….
Another Holocene Human
@burnspbesq: Lol, just the ideas you threw out, certainly not cosigning everything you say, burnsie–don’t let it go to your head! :)
Another Holocene Human
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Fuck, did you hear about the news from Fayetteville? Shiiii-it.
Betty Cracker
@nastybrutishntall: My “Favorite Obama Sellouts” wouldn’t fill a novella, much less a multi-volume set. I think he’s the best president we’ve had since I’ve been on the planet, and I voted for him twice, canvassed and donated money. I just don’t think he’s infallible or above criticism. Your mileage CLEARLY varies, and that’s okay.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Betty Cracker: Trying again as I seem to be in the dungeon without a way out…
Not Bobby, but I’ll throw in my $0.02.
Obama has to pick his battles. Consider the various efforts at installing riders to prevent DC and others from spending its own money on abortions.
See this ThinkProgress piece.
He can only use the tools he has (ah! the bad words perhaps!) and try to move things at the margins when he doesn’t have a majority. Obama’s got to look at the big picture. Maybe losing a skirmish here will let him win a bigger battle later…
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kryptik, A Man Without A Country
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Again, as with many things the last few years, I feel like, bad as this is, the blame remains mostly at the feet of the Congresscritters than Obama. Obama, for all the things you can fault him for, still has to at least pretend he can govern, even when the asshats in the legislative branch try to scapegoat him for everything wrong with everything.
Kay
@Kryptik, A Man Without A Country:
I don’t think that’s the appeal Republicans make. You see it as “instilling the fear of the other” because you see yourself as outside the circle they draw. I do too. I hear it as excluding me.
The positive aspect of the GOP message is inclusive, it says “you and me are in this good group”. If you’re standing inside the circle it’s not negative at all.
Betty Cracker
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I get all that. I really, really do. I’m just questioning the tactics. There are many ways to play a lousy hand. To me, rolling back a critical Dodd-Frank provision and allowing even more fat cat dollars to flood federal elections, etc., looks more like folding than bluffing. And working the phones with Jamie Fucking Dimon (albeit not necessarily in a synchronized and coordinated manner) is just pure poison for a party that wants to position itself as the champion of Main Street.
Kay
@Kryptik, A Man Without A Country:
I deal with this conservative lawyer at least once a week, I like him. We go back and forth all the time, and he will occasionally tell me some outrage about Social Security disability or something, where someone is getting something he isn’t, and he wants to bring me into the fold. His appeal is “you’re like me! the good people!” :)
It’s inclusive from that perspective. Positive. In not out.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Kryptik, A Man Without A Country: Yup.
Cheers,
Scott.
Bob In Portland
@Another Holocene Human: Weren’t the ones who “came” the Nazis? I mean, historically.
It must be a lot easier to ignore things, but then it’s getting a lot harder.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Betty Cracker: With respect, Meh. :-) Nobody outside of a few blogs and the DC press cares that Jaime Dimon called anyone. They just don’t. They will figure, even if they hear about it, that this is just inside baseball stuff.
Many, many people have a hard enough time just getting by with their sanity and having a few dollars left over by the end of the month. They don’t want the government to shut down. They know that the banks have too much financial power – this one provision being present or absent isn’t going to change that much.
GovExec:
Which way would you do if you were in the Senate and had to vote by midnight Saturday, knowing that the House has fled, and (hypothetically) your vote would decide the outcome?
I would vote Aye.
I too expect it to pass, but maybe Cruz will withhold his consent again…
Cheers,
Scott.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Betty Cracker: Meh. FYWP really doesn’t like me today. Trying yet again…
With respect, Meh. :-) Nobody outside of a few blogs and the DC press cares that Jaime Dimon called anyone. They just don’t. They will figure, even if they hear about it, that this is just inside baseball stuff.
Many, many people have a hard enough time just getting by with their sanity and having a few dollars left over by the end of the month. They don’t spend much time thinking about party politics. They know that the banks have too much financial power – this one provision being present or absent isn’t going to change that much. But they don’t want the government to shut down.
GovExec:
Which way would you vote if you were in the Senate and had to vote by midnight Saturday, knowing that the House has fled, and (hypothetically) your vote would decide the outcome?
I would vote Aye.
So, I too expect it to pass, but it will be close (I expect there will be many voting know with the knowledge that it will pass without them), but maybe Cruz will withhold his consent again and things will shut down…
Cheers,
Scott.
Kay
hah!
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Well, some good news at last!
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Betty Cracker:
If the Democrats want to position themselves as the champions of Main Street, they have to oust the Republicans from that spot first. As seen in the last election, most “Main Streeters” vote Republican, and those “Main Streeters” don’t have any problem with Republicans bailing out the banks. They only hate it when the Democrats do it.
jayjaybear
Jesus Christ! I’m a little bit of an Obama-bot, I’ll admit, but I really, really wish he’d stop associating with people who, in a just world, would be in the federal pen (and NOT a country-club one) for the rest of their natural lives…
Anonymous
It occurs to me there are two ways to read Jamie Dimon here.
One is that he’s a greedy pig directly responsible for the poison pill and panting to arbitrage the US economy again. Seems plausible.
The other one is that he’s really fuckin’ scared of what will happen to the (largely fat-cat) ‘recovery’ if the Republicans shut down the government some more. SOME of the banksters have to be aware of the fact that Obama’s made them money. These people are not teabagger fans. I think their big idea is not solely about Republicans deregulating everything. I think some of them are smart enough to know that only works in a society that hasn’t utterly collapsed. Getting bailed out as ‘too big to fail’ ONLY works if something bigger was able to bail you.
These people do not like the US credit rating damaged. They’re going to have varying and foul opinons about what works, but some of them are aware that teabagger maniacs aren’t sensible and won’t necessarily follow orders.
So I’m envisioning Dimon going to Obama like, “LISTEN. Yes you’re screwed on the deregulation thing, we stuck a thing in there, not interested in discussing that part. BUT, do you realize how much it’s going to hurt us if the United States shits the bed now, and does a big faceplant? We can set you up with a nice job after your Presidency if we all live through it. But you gotta keep the lights on regardless! Things are going to get weird and we’re going to end up with similar problems!”
All fantasy, yeah, but I am absolutely certain that some of these Alpha Male Rich Winning Bankers are aware they’re in danger if the country literally collapses. They are milking a cow and some of them, unlike Fox viewers, realize they have a ridiculously sweet deal. By nature they want to push it even farther, but I’m convinced they don’t want to kill the host.
Cervantes
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Interesting notion. How do you establish that it’s true?
Lightfoot
@jayjaybear: Yeah…Nobody deserves that. Unless they’re mass murders on the scale of the Holocaust.
I know of what I speak.
It’s not like T.V.
Go lock yourself in your bathroom for a day.
Then imagine a week, a year, a decade, life.
Corner Stone
@Lightfoot:
I’m not a fan of the modern incarceration initiative. That said, you sound stupid.
Lightfoot
@Corner Stone: “the rest of their natural lives…”
Pretty pointed comment, which was what I was commenting on.
You sound biased.
Like an attorney, prosecutor.
Corner Stone
@Lightfoot: Oh, I’m a prosecutor, alright. I’m gonna prosecute your ass. I’m a gonna prosecute the hell outta your ass!
Lightfoot
@Corner Stone: Should have been, “Ima gonna prosecute da hell outta ur az!”
You must be pretty bored.
Corner Stone
@Lightfoot: I stand by my statement.
Lightfoot
@Corner Stone: So do I.
ruemara
@Kay: Kay, I love the work you do, love your sensible, experience based posts, but on this, we will have to disagree. Love don’t win shit. Fear, anger, passions win. And if you can’t get your passion on and activated, goddess help you.
NobodySpecial
@AxelFoley: Funny, the exit polls don’t support your tired, discredited meme. Again. Maybe come up with a new excuse.
brantl
It may be weak sauce, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.