Over at Bloomberg News, Josh Rogin has apparently gotten into the special egg nog a little early.
Although President Barack Obama is taking the credit for Wednesday’s historic deal to reverse decades of U.S. policy toward Cuba, when Hillary Clinton was secretary of state, she was the main architect of the new policy and pushed far harder for a deal than the Obama White House.
From 2009 until her departure in early 2013, Clinton and her top aides took the lead on the sometimes public, often private interactions with the Cuban government. According to current and former White House and State Department officials and several Cuba policy experts who were involved in the discussions, Clinton was also the top advocate inside the government for ending travel and trade restrictions on Cuba and reversing 50 years of U.S. policy to isolate the Communist island nation. Repeatedly, she pressed the White House to move faster and faced opposition from cautious high-ranking White House officials.
After Obama announced the deal Wednesday, which included the release of aid contractor Alan Gross, Clinton issued a supportive statement distributed by the National Security Council press team. “As Secretary of State, I pushed for his release, stayed in touch with Alan’s wife Judy and their daughters, and called for a new direction in Cuba,” she said. “Despite good intentions, our decades-long policy of isolation has only strengthened the Castro regime’s grip on power.”
Yet Clinton played down her own role in the issue, which will surely become important if she decides to run for president. Top prospective Republican candidates, including Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio have all come out against the president’s policy shift.
Clinton’s advocacy on behalf of opening a new relationship with Cuba began almost as soon as she came into office. Obama had campaigned on a promise to engage enemies, but the White House initially was slow to make good on that pledge, and on the Cuba front enacted only a modest relaxation of travel rules. From the start, Clinton pushed to hold Obama to his promise with regard to Cuba.
“Hillary Clinton played a very large role,” said Steve Clemons, a senior fellow at the New America Foundation who advocated for changes to U.S.-Cuba policy. “The president, when he ran for office and when he came in, thought that doing something on Cuba front would be smart. But as soon as he got into office, though, every other priority hit him.”
If there was any doubt that President Obama’s move on Cuba is a massive foreign policy legacy point for the history books that will stand the test of time, please note the blinding speed at which the credit for the deal is being given to someone else.
Also, if there was ever any doubt that Hillary Clinton was not going to have trouble earning the trust of Obama 2008 primary voters, well, please note the same goddamn thing. The false modesty angle actually made me laugh aloud while reading it, as if this wasn’t the perfect example of That Awesome Co-Worker Taking Credit.
It’s one thing to say “Secretary Clinton had a role in this” and another thing completely to say she was the “main architect” of a diplomatic coup that happened 2 years after she left Foggy Bottom. Maybe I’d be a little less angry if this was the first time people were trying to “Aww shucks” their way into giving her credit for something President Obama accomplished, and again I’m sure she did play a part.
But in the end, a Secretary of State is implementing the foreign policy of a President. Period. Deal with it.
[EDIT] From the comments, a reminder that Steve Clemons up there is old enough to remember when Hillary was against any change in US policy before she was for it (and while Candidate Obama very much was in favor of changing it.)
Villago Delenda Est
Which happens to be pretty much why Colin Powell’s term as SoS is going to be remembered as an utter fuckup.
As is Condoleeza Rice’s watch.
Both serving the most fucked up, incompetent President since Buchanan.
Roger Moore
I would be more inclined to describe that as someone trying to steal credit, rather than giving it away. But yes, everyone trying to take credit is the best sign that it’s a good idea.
Zandar
@Roger Moore: That depends on how much you believe Rogin is implicit in the theft.
But you have a fair point.
jo6pac
OK lets not get karried away below is the catch 22. If john kerry takes his time repugs will be in charge and will block this good will and 0 will do what he does best. potus will say I tried but they won’t let me. It’s funny yahoo and some so-called progressive sites left this out or removed later when it was spotted.
“Secretary of State John Kerry has also been instructed to review Cuba’s place on the State Sponsors of Terrorism list, potentially paving the the way a lift on certain economic and political sanctions.”
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/politics/cuba-alan-gross-deal/
Roger Moore
@Zandar:
I assume that the people at State who are calling this Hillary’s success are people personally loyal to her and are trying to secure the credit to her. That sure sounds like stealing the credit even if Rogin is only an unwitting accomplice.
cmorenc
@Zandar:
If she wins the nomination, if they have any sense they’ll have to decide to trust her an ocean’s worth of difference more than whomever wins the GOP toxic clown car race. At the very least, hopefully they’ll grasp an important analogy from the 1991 Louisiana Governor’s race (Edwards v Duke): “Vote for the schnook: it’s important!” OK, so in that race, the exact word wasn’t schnook, but then again Hillary isn’t a crook, just sometimes too much an establishment-cozy schnook for many people’s taste.
chopper
anything to take credit away from obama.
Bobby Thomson
The article is written to imply that Clinton led a reluctant Obama into this deal, but that’s not what the sources quoted in the article actually say. They say that Clinton favored it and White House advisors did not. As between State and the White House, State has institutional reasons for liking this, while traditional bedwetting political advisors in the White House would probably push back. I do think it’s unrealistic to think that Clinton never worked on something this significant, and reports also suggest that this detente may have begun as early as Pierre Trudeau’s funeral.
In the end, it’s a major coup for Obama for which he deserves credit just as he would have to take the blame. Everyone involved who kept it a secret did great work.
tl;dr: This smells like Lanny, and he’s not helpful to his “friends.”
CONGRATULATIONS!
Don’t feel bad, I laughed too.
Betty Cracker
Here’s a sentence from HRC’s statement yesterday:
This Obama 2008 primary voter isn’t going to blame HRC for what a Bloomberg columnist writes; it doesn’t sound like she is trying to steal credit.
mai naem mobile
Hillary and Bill Clinton can go fuck themselves. The idiot signed the Helms Burton bill, lost the House, could not get healthcare reform passed, passed the media reform bill giving away radio to the RW and signed the Glass Steagal bill. Just go fuck yourselves you fucking Wall Street whores.
Bobby Thomson
@Betty Cracker: That’s my take on it as well.
Corner Stone
Good Christ. What a fucking baby you are, Zandar.
Obama is the boss. That has something I have consistently said here for 6+ years. But somehow he’s not the boss when it’s not convenient, ala Brennan or Comey or Hayden or Panetta or etc.
People here tried for four fucking years to claim how HRC went rogue as SecState.
So which is it dbag? Obama is the boss, or he’s the boss when it’s easy-peasy for you to remind people of that fucking fact?
Brian R.
I heard Hillary set all this in motion by first engineering the rise of Pope Francis to the papacy.
Corner Stone
@Brian R.:
She threatened to release the sex tape of Ratzi licking her 6in red Prada high heels.
jl
And how many other presidents, and generals, and what not, have had to deal with this? You can make a plausible story that everything any president, or general, or what have you, does is really due to the work of their underlings, since the president cannot do the leg work and due diligence on everything.
On the other hand, the president has to make the judgment and decide on the manner and the timing and has the ultimate responsibility.
As a commenter above put it, if HRC is trying to steal credit, that might be a sign it is a good idea that will work good things.
And what what happens when HRC, or whoever, is president? Same thing will happen. If Biden can crack 3% in polls and it’s him, same thing. Everyone is going to write a book or put out gossip for scribblers that all the good decisions were their idea and their work, and all the bad decision were because the jackass president, whoever it is, didn’t listen to them.
History will sort it out. HRC may have a few more elections in her. Obama doesn’t unless he wants to go JQ Adams and spend some time in Congress (doubtful, since Obama seems sane and nice, which argues against it given politics and Congress these days). Let’s concentrate on people dissing Obama as a future Supreme, since that may have important consequences.
jl
@Corner Stone: Is HRC that selfless? If she had to carry through, that would not do good for her pres bid. Or… would it? I guess it depends on the shoe and foot fetish vote.
kc
So I guess everyone at BJ will be voting for Ralph Nader in 2016?
Goblue72
Gonna be a long two years.
Corner Stone
@jl:
Little chance of that coming to fruition, one would think. But she’s proven she knows how to handle ex-lovers. One who threatened to divulge their liaisons is dead, another who kept quiet is now on the SCOTUS.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@kc: Is that guy still alive? I thought he died recently.
El Caganer
@kc: Thanksralph!
Corner Stone
@kc:
LAC
@Corner Stone: I see someone started on their liquored up egg nog early.
Tree With Water
It’s a heavy handed article, but one Clinton surely approves seeing broadcast. That’s just it. Hillary is at best a mediocre campaigner, inclined to plod along in a conventional, predictably heavy handed manner. Her political instincts are dull. Witness her vanilla endorsement of the momentous decision.
It’s certainly true she deals with mountain ranges of more bullshit than any other politician in the country, male or female. But a more adept move would have seen her lavish praise on the president for HIS accomplishment (“..and the opportunity the president afforded me to aid him in this great overture..”), timed for release within minutes of Obama’s dramatic announcement. But, predictably, she didn’t.
AxelFoley
@kc:
Did you vote for him in 2000?
No one’s saying they’ll vote GOP, or third party or stay home.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Yep.
@Goblue72:
Yep.
scav
@Brian R.: That’d be yet another handy superpower actually, to holster next to the Kenyan-Muslim-Commie-Community-Organizer-Weak-Leadership-Mastermind-Tyrant-by-Proxy European-Inadequate-Army pocket knife she acquired by working for the current Illegal-Enabler-in-Chief.
Archon
I don’t care if Hillary spends the next two years taking credit for all of Obama’s accomplishments we just need her to win, at any cost.
If a Republican wins the Presidency in 2016 not only would it be a political and moral disaster for this country, the narrative a day after the election perpetuated by the media, the right, and even a chunk of the left will be, “Hillary would have been a shoe-in if she didn’t have to defend Obama’s horrible policies”. The beltway will make her the most sympathetic figure in America the day after she loses, trust me.
Whatever media narrative about the repudiation of Bush there was in Obama’s 08 victory will be the narrative tenfold about Obama if the GOP wins in 2016.
kc
@jl:
Does anyone think Obama seriously WANTS to be a Supreme Court Justice? Instead of just going on the speaking/book writing circuit and raking in the dough like every other ex-president?
I certainly wouldn’t blame him for doing the latter; he’s put up with enough shit during his presidency to last several lifetimes.
Corner Stone
@LAC: Argle bargle mcarrrrggghhh!!!
/shorter LAC
jl
@Tree With Water: I agree. HRC is not very graceful or light on her feet, in the way is trying to dance with the Obama presidency at a distance. Need to be close enough to attract the Obama crowd, need to be far away enough to attract people who are less sexist than racist. And don’t want to disillusion the PUMAs, they might harm themselves and others if HRC approved to much of anything Obama’s done.
jl
@kc: He’ll be talked into it. There are ways.
Edit: When Michelle is president, Obama won’t like sitting around in the shadows. That is the tactic I will push for.
kc
@El Caganer:
[sigh]
Rex Tremendae
Atrios linked to a Bloomberg article today about how Senator Warren helped earn Larry Summers a fortune by leading the charge against him at the Fed, and letting him earn $$$$ elsewhere. They even asked her office for comment.
So I don’t know about Bloomberg.
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2014-12-18/lawrence-summers-28-million-payday-courtesy-of-elizabeth-warren
Cacti
How’s the saying go, success has a thousand fathers but failure is an orphan?
lamh36
@kc: I really get tired of this bullshit response.
will no one be allowed to criticize “candidate Clinton” at all. I mean there was any number of critics of “candidate Obama” from people, but I never once said to those people, at the time, “well who you gonna vote for, Nader”.
Why, cause even at the height of the PUMA fringes, I never really thought any of the would vote for GOP…period. I believed them to be the good Dem voters they claimed to be.
the whole “are you voting for Nader” taunt is stupid and just juvenile at this point. Shit, do we all have to add a signature to everyone of our post if we ever say some in critic of HRC right now or 2016?
will that stop people from taunting with a Nader vote…cause really give it a fuckin rest.
kc
@Corner Stone:
Simmer down.
Spinwheel
@Corner Stone:
QFT.
Zandar’s blatantly knee-jerk reaction to anyone who makes Obama look bad is embarrassing. It must destroy him to see anyone go after his hero like that even when he does have feet of clay.
But wittle baby Zandie got the attention he was looking for didn’t he?
Tree With Water
@Archon: “..we just need her to win, at any cost”. Wrong. We need to insure the defeat of the republican nominee. Hillary is no more a part of the equation then any other prospective democratic nominee.
kc
@lamh36:
Okay.
Baud
@Rex Tremendae:
Are they suggesting that Warren should have killed Summers?
Lavocat
I call bullshit. 2016 is going to be bloody if this is any sign of what’s to come.
Corner Stone
@Tree With Water:
“I support President Obama’s decision to change course on Cuba policy, while keeping the focus on our principal objective — supporting the aspirations of the Cuban people for freedom.”
“President Obama’s decision”
Allan
@Betty Cracker: It’s just another example of how Hillary’s biggest fans are going to cost her the nomination… again.
srv
Rosie splains to Whoopi what racism is:
kc
How come the GOP has a whole raft of clowns being touted as nominees whereas the Dems have only . . . Hillary? Is that good or bad for the Dems?
Lavocat
@mai naem mobile: What you said! Thank you!
tobie
@Tree With Water: I kind of wonder if HRC wasn’t a pretty mediocre SoS, too. Most of Obama’s foreign relations victories have come during Kerry’s tenure. Think of the nuclear deal with Iran; the multilateral sanctions against Russia; the decision not to get involved directly in Syria; the isolation and devastation of ISIL; etc.
HRC and company thought they could carve out a space apart from Obama in the November elections. Someone as loyal to the Clintons as Leon Panetta would never have published his book praising HRC to the skies and questioning the President’s judgment on the eve of the midterm elections without the Clintons’ express approval. A new Clinton coalition of Democrats was to take the stage before the start of the 2016 election campaign. Remember Alice Lundergan–“I’m a Clinton Democrat”–Grimes? See how well that worked out.
Run, Elizabeth Warren, run! I’ll vote for whomever is the Democratic nominee but I’d love to do so with enthusiasm.
Villago Delenda Est
@kc: Probably right after I’m formally installed as Tsar of all the Russias.
Corner Stone
@kc: That’s a classic Cole-ism to me from a while back.
Villago Delenda Est
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
He was dead to me 14 years ago when he did his damnedest to get the deserting coward in the White House.
There is no redemption for a crime of that magnitude.
LAC
@Corner Stone: sounds like you throwing up the morning after. since you are the one talking about D bags and foot fetishes, maybe you should slow down
kc
@Corner Stone:
Oh, thank you. That looks like a fun thread. Sorry I missed it.
Keith G
@Betty Cracker:
Now Betty, don’t go throwing water on a prime chance for a lil bit of outrage.
Chests must be thumped, Obama must be defended. Hillary must be dissed.
Before sunrise this morning, I read a NYTs article reporting on HRC’s efforts of advocacy on this policy. That story was consistent with other reporting and even jibed with ideas expressed in Hillary’s book.
Good presidents should surround themselves with very accomplished and smart people who push important policy ideas. There is nothing wrong in acknowledging that. It is up to the president to decide if and how to address such ideas and then to shoulder the risks of any actions. Decades from now this will be seen as one of Obama’s best moves – no matter who was pushing for it.
Chill out Obots….if you can.
Dream about the day some years hence when ex Senator Ted Cruz goes to visit his ancestral land by flying into Obama International Airport located right outside Havana.
Allan
@Rex Tremendae: Bloomberg recently snapped up the dimbulb from New York Magazine who let a teenager lead her around by the nose, so there’s that…
Spinwheel
@Allan: No.
But it is a perfect example of how rabid defenders of Obama will become the very “purity trolls” they despised over the course of the next two years, right up to the Republican president in 2017.
Allan
@Spinwheel: Shouldn’t you be getting Zandar fired or something?
Allan
@Corner Stone: Bookmarking a four-year-old comment in which the blogmaster deigned to acknowledge your existence is the online equivalent of hanging around your high school parking lot showing off your Camaro.
Just One More Canuck
@Corner Stone: at least Zandar’s stalker agrees with you
Spinwheel
@Allan: It seems to me that Zandar accusing a columnist of theft is “trying to get someone fired” is it not?
Corner Stone
@Allan: It’s not a bookmark. I have the link tattooed on my inner thigh, along with his direct reference of me.
Sometimes life is a cruel bitch, and I just need that little extra to get by. Or off. Whichever.
Kay
@kc:
It’s bad. Democrats need governors. They have a DC focus that has really hurt them.
I think it’s a combination of factors. Democrats and liberals are much more open to a strong federal role, rightfully so, down to more mundane and much less noble reasons- like national political operatives wanting to hold onto power and control and (especially) campaign dollars.
Republicans may have as many as 4 sitting or very recently sitting governors running. That’s bad for Democrats. It’s a sign of a really structural weakness, not strength.
kc
@Allan:
Shit, that was four years old? I assumed it was last week.
Cacti
@jl:
I agree. HRC is not very graceful or light on her feet, in the way is trying to dance with the Obama presidency at a distance.
As long as she can stay away from the obvious dogwhistle racism, and avoid telling easily refuted whoppers like the “sniper fire” story, she may be the next POTUS.
I don’t have a lot of faith in either of the above.
Corner Stone
@Just One More Canuck: He agrees with me that HRC herself states that it’s President Obama’s decision?
Sounds reasonable.
Allan
@kc: Sad, isn’t it?
Allan
@Spinwheel: What a waste it is to lose one’s mind.
kc
@Spinwheel:
You know, it’s not like I agree with Zandar all of the time, or even much of the time, but . . . whaat?
kindness
Gee, I think that since we’re dealing with 18th dimensional chess Obama is actually trying to help Hillary win. You know…Not helping Jebby and all.
Why would that be a problem? The two of them are on good terms. This isn’t 2008 any more.
Liberty60
@Keith G:
This proud Obot abides.
If someone else wants to parse an article for intra-party feuds let them.
kc
@Allan:
Actually, no. I need to start bookmarking douchey comments so I can throw them up in future threads with a triumphant “BWAHAHA!”
And I’m only semi-joking. There have been a few occasions where I’ve read a particularly rich comment and thought, “Wait, isn’t the same person who once said ____ . . . ” but I’m too lazy to go check.
LAC
@Keith G: oh we got a chance to thump our chest,did we? oh thank you , Santa.
kc
@Kay:
Thanks. This makes sense.
I don’t see this situation improving in the foreseeable future.
Allan
@Keith G: A PUMA says what?
Carolinus
@Spinwheel:
With your reflexive ODS always so comically off-the-charts I’d think you’d avoid this line of attack.
Keith G
@Kay:
Partially a result of the Christo-conservative backlash that started in the 70s. Suburb upon suburb became the breading ground of anti gov, anti brown, and anti gay ideology. These folks were focused and willing to vote. The Left had little to counter. So, state by state, election by election conservatives built up a pretty deep bench of state office holders.
Hildebrand
@lamh36: Absolutely spot on. Of course I will vote for Clinton, if she is the nominee. There is absolutely no question about that. Doesn’t mean I have to want her to get the Democratic nomination. I didn’t vote for Bill in the primaries, but voted for him in the general. You see, this is how the system works.
Frankensteinbeck
@Liberty60:
I couldn’t love Obama more. Even if Hillary has anything to do with this article, that wouldn’t bother me. ‘Obama never gets any credit’ seemed like a more likely explanation, but you know, whatever.
Hungry Joe
@Villago Delenda Est: You’ve got my vote.
We get to vote for Tsar, right?
Keith G
@Allan: Puma? Me?
Dumb shit.
I have been a supporter of Barak Obama since 2007 (converted much of my extended family before the first caucus). I worked our precinct convention (in our state, that’s were the real action is) whipping votes for candidate Obama against the forces of Hillary.
I am not sure what compels you to feel the someone who is interested in a fair appraisal of this story is an Puma. It’s a rather silly line of reasoning, though.
JPL
@srv: I didn’t read the link yet but I did watch part of the show. Rosie Perez mentioned staying at a nice hotel in San Antonio with her sister. When they went to a VIP section to dine, someone showed her sister what tables to clean. I don’t know if that is racism as much as assuming those who are not white, must be the others. Okay it’s racism.
another Holocene human
@Villago Delenda Est: Condi is a piece of work all on her own merits I’m afraid.
As for Powell: you fucked up, you trusted us. Works both for his role in the admin and his role pushing America towards war.
Allan
@Keith G: Oh, so your pathetic usage of “Obot” was intended to be “witty” and “ironic.” Thanks for clarifying.
another Holocene human
@kindness: Obama wants and needs a democrat to win the white house in 2016. If that person is Clinton he’ll back her 100%. That’s the thing about Barack, he’s a bigger person than the Clintons and always have been. To be fair they also came around for Obama because they cared more about supporting a good Democrat and Democratic values than their own well attested egos so there is that.
Our side doesn’t have a lot of elected Ted Cruzes. The campaign grifters however. ..
Corner Stone
@JPL:
I had an adult black male ask me yesterday in BestBuy if I worked there. He had a big smile on his face and at the time I kind of thought he was just messing with me. All day since I have been aware of the article where the president and Michelle discuss their encounters I have been wondering if he was jacking with me along those lines. He seemed like he was enjoying asking me at the time, which I found it kind of funny but was not really sure why.
kc
@JPL:
Some years ago, I was in a bar with some college classmates, celebrating the end of the class. One of the guys was black, and he was the only black guy in the bar. He was dressed very nicely, better than most of us, in fact. He was standing in the middle of our group, and we were all talking and laughing when this white lady wormed her into the middle of the group, went up to him, and ASKED HIM TO CLEAR HER TABLE. I shit you not.
I was astonished, but have talked to enough people since then to learn that this kind of thing is, sadly, not an uncommon occurrence.
Full metal Wingnut
@LAC: I should note that traditional egg nog is liquored up, so the phrase is redundant.
kc
@Corner Stone:
It was probably your Best Buy Associate name tag.
Corner Stone
@another Holocene human:
How do you bald faced state the first sentence, and then with no break type in the second one right after?
Keith G
@Allan: There are folks here who appear to have a hair trigger sensitivity which makes it seem as if so much is viewed through a ” World vs Obama” lens.
I used to consider myself an Obot until it occurred to me that I did not have the “stamina” to play that game. Yet some people do, and they can be amazingly ….. vigorous.
Kay
@Cacti:
She had found her groove by the time she got to the Ohio primary. She was good. She had this kind of appealing “practical” thing going on. It seemed to me to be her more natural self.
I knew they’d beat us and they certainly did.
I read she’s hiring the guy who ran her Ohio primary for her (prospective) national campaign. That’s probably a good hire. I think she’ll be in pretty solid shape if the economy is good.
Corner Stone
@kc: What made it weird is we walked into the store together almost right beside each other and then moved toward the same area. As I peeled away toward the Xbox One display is when he asked me.
So he could have not noticed me, which is a fair thought. Or he could have been giving me a little bit O the business, which is what I honestly thought at the time when I smiled and said, “No sir, I sure don’t.” And kept walking.
nellcote
Hillary argued against making an approach to Cuba in the debates. A bit much for her to be taking credit now.
JPL
@kc: Years ago, I was with my friend and we met to shop and go to a movie. She happens to be black. We went into a higher priced department store and she purchased two expensive suits and asked them to hold them until after the movie. (not Neiman’s) Anyway after the movie she went to pick them up and they asked her if she was picking them up for Mrs…… They could not locate the items. Her husband called the next day and no amount of apologies could fix that.
Another time, I had someone clean my septic system who loved the changes in GA voting laws, because it would make it harder for the others to vote. You see the others are just ignorant and don’t vote right.
Whoopi is wrong you don’t have to be black to recognize racism.
Mandalay
Not that Rubio ever had a chance of becoming president anyway, but Obama’s policy towards Cuba has blown this worthless jackass blowhard out of contention:
And there you have it. Even if 99% of the country support normalizing relations with Cuba, Rubio would still oppose it. That’s the kind of leader we would get with President Rubio – leading from behind the rest of the population.
Marco Rubio: the only man alive who can make Rick Perry seem smart.
chopper
@LAC:
hey, don’t knock getting drunk at noon. that’s the only thing CS has going for him.
Allan
@Keith G: The constant micro- and macro-aggressions contribute to that hair trigger, it doesn’t arise from a vacuum. As other conversations in this thread exhibit, there’s a sizable portion of the US population that simply doesn’t see people of color as their equals, let alone possess the capacity to acknowledge when one is their superior…
LAC
@Full metal Wingnut: well, there is the traditional liquored up egg nog and the Corner stone’s Winston Churchill approach to egg nog (waiving the egg nog container over the fifth of choice)
chopper
@LAC:
isn’t that WC Fields?
Corner Stone
@chopper: The only thing? That’s kind of harsh. I’m also pretty awesome at making foam crafts.
Man, the Ankle Biter Brigade rides again!
nellcote
Steve Clemmons Sept. 2007
Mandalay
@Betty Cracker:
Not this week it doesn’t, but it sure does look like she is in her book published in June:
So good for her if she really was the catalyst for this new policy – she is entitled to brag. Equally, fuck her if she is trying to steal all the credit, and it would have happened regardless of her efforts.
We may have to wait for Obama’s memoirs to get more details on how it all came about, and I doubt if we’ll ever really know.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
What’s a Josh Rogin? I’ve never heard of him and Bloomberg doesn’t give any bio. It’s at a point now where almost everything I read about politics, I want some background about the author.
Corner Stone
@Mandalay:
How would she be attempting to steal credit in her book that was published some amount of time ago?
Cervantes
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
He used to be at CQ, then FP, then the Daily Beast.
Tree With Water
@tobie: I’ll go you one further. What has Hillary ever achieved legislatively for the democratic rank and file? For all her ballyhooed political expertise, I’m hard pressed to think of much at all. On the most important vote she cast in her brief senatorial career, she chose to support the Bush/Cheney big lie war, and with genuine enthusiasm. And if Bill’s administration is factored into that equation to embellish her record, she’s then on the hook for his blunders, too (the gutting of Glass-Stegall, for example).
Omnes Omnibus
@nellcote: Time has passed since the 2008 debates. Isn’t it completely plausible that she came to a different position on the issue during her time as SoS and recommended that Obama take a look at it? Major changes of policy don’t occur in a vacuum and it is quite plausible Clinton, Kerry, and Obama all deserve some credit for putting it all in place. In the end though, don’t worry, the history books will say that it was Obama – because he was the president who ultimately made the decision.
jl
@nellcote: Thanks. Interesting. If Clemmons is right then HRC could be trying to steal herself a little credit after sensing that the new Cuba policy will be popular and will work (so, it will stay popular). Or, maybe HRC was triangulating and playing safe on the stump, because…. I myself to not believe that on policies HRC is a clone of Bill. But I think they have a lot in common in how they think about fingers in the wind while running for office.
I guess we all will have to triangulate on what the real story is after all the books come out.
kc
@Corner Stone:
It sounds like he was fucking with you. Kind of funny.
You should have said, “Why, yes, I do” and then proceeded to show him flat screen TV’s when he asked about notebooks, or whatever . . .
kc
@JPL:
One would like to think things are getting better, but based on the stories I hear, it’s not improving fast enough.
kc
@Corner Stone:
SHE’S A WITCH.
jl
@Mandalay: So, HRC ‘suggested’ to Obama a new Cuba policy that was reported that he supported and she opposed in the past? Interesting. I guess her ‘suggestions’ were received with welcome.
Politicians say stuff that makes them look good in retrospect, even if they are not running for a future election.
I’ll vote for HRC in the next pres general against any GOPer, and maybe in the primaries if no better equally or more electable candidate runs. I don’t care to waste time nano analyzing any of these politicians.
Mandalay
@Corner Stone:
It was only published in June, and I’m sure that our new policy towards Cuba didn’t materialize in the past five months. With or without Clinton’s involvement, it has been in the works for years.
I’m not saying Clinton doesn’t deserve credit if she really was the driving force behind changing our relationship with Cuba, though post #102 gives cause for reasonable doubt. But whatever the truth of the matter, she was definitely claiming the credit in her book (“I recommended to President Obama that he take another look at our embargo“).
Suzanne
@Omnes Omnibus: THANK YOU. HRC is not all I want her to be, but FFS, this is a really great thing, she was apparently a great SoS (Obama picked her, FFS), and I’m sure that some of her efforts went toward making this happened, as we know that it took a while. POTUS gets most of the credit, because even if HRC did alllllllll of this, it’s still in his name, with his signature at the bottom, and his neck on the line. He made the call. But this really doesn’t sound like HRC “stealing” any credit, and I really don’t know why she provokes some much bile around here. She’s problematic, it’s complicated, but by the way she gets talked about around here, you’d think she punched your kittens.
Corner Stone
@kc:
With the size of those bloated cankles I doubt she weighs less than a duck.
Allan
@Corner Stone: He must have noticed your NObama bumper sticker.
Mandalay
@jl:
Well in this particular case it would certainly be futile.
Even if Clinton was telling a brazen lie about the Administration’s Cuba policy in her book she would know very well that Obama can’t contradict her. So if it was a lie, it was a very clever one.
Corner Stone
@Mandalay:
A couple things here: Uno, I don’t see anywhere that she is “claiming” credit for the president’s decision or that she was a “driving force” for the change in status.
Making the factual statement in a memoir that she had suggested a revised approach is light years away from claiming credit, or anything else. There is simply no way a reasonable person could take statements from a book (months and months ago when it was approved for publishing) and transopilate them (real time events right now) into what you are stating.
This is crazy talk.
chopper
@Corner Stone:
Naw, the only thing. Might as well own it.
Corner Stone
@chopper: Whiff, and a miss.
Original Lee
@JPL: My brother-in-law gets stuff like this all the time, being an AA professor at a lily-white university. He recently picked up a (white) guest speaker at the airport and, as he finished putting the guest’s luggage in the trunk of his car, a dude traveling with his family parked nearby handed him $20 and told him they had to be at the gate in 10 minutes, so step on it.
chopper
@Corner Stone:
Well maybe you should sit down a while.
srv
@JPL: Whoopi would say that’s ignorance, not racism.
Mandalay
@Corner Stone:
Priceless.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I wonder if Armstrong will put the PUMAband back together at MyDD for 2016. I wonder whatever happened to the one who wished death on Ted Kennedy.
Corner Stone
@Mandalay: Ok, maybe she never said that in real life. Granted that’s certainly possible. But how in the ever loving fuck does typing it into a book published months and months in advance of the president signing off on a change of status equal claiming credit or claiming she’s a driving force?
That’s some pretty interesting shit you’re working through there.
Corner Stone
@Mandalay:
You sound stupid.
chopper
@Suzanne:
I think this is one of those typical Clinton situations where taking credit depends on how popular the policy ends up being. We’ll have to wait and see whether hills feels like it’s worth claiming it for herself.
Marc
@Roger Moore:
And that it’s likely to outlast Obama’s time in office.
What are folks here up in arms about, exactly? That Clinton has signaled that she supports a policy we all like? OH NOES
Mandalay
@Corner Stone:
She put it in the book “months and months” AFTER the negotiations with Cuba (of which she would have been part) were underway. When she wrote the book she already knew more about the policy that was announced this week than we will ever know. Christ, it’s not complicated.
And if you can’t see that “I recommended to President Obama that he take another look at our embargo” isn’t claiming credit for changing a policy that had been in place for 50 years then I really can’t help you – Clinton is flatly asserting that the change came about because she told the president to “take another look”.
Again, if she really was the driving force behind the change then good for her; her work as SoS may have led to that realization. But you have to be willfully blind (or fucking dense) to not see that she is seeking credit for the change in her book.
Trixie Belden
@mai naem mobile:
Indeed, what you said, thirded! And don’t forget welfare “reform”.
Corner Stone
@Mandalay: You are an idiot who refuses to recognize a simple timeline.
Believe whatever you like, but don’t try and drag reality down to match your stupid fucking hypothesis of events.
Corner Stone
@Mandalay:
This was inserted into a book at least a solid year before Obama made any significant announced change.
You, sir, are an idiot.
rikyrah
Zander,
you tickle me.
‘ The Awesome Co-Worker taking credit’.
LOVE IT.
askew
This is nothing new. Hillary took credit for other people’s work in the Irish Peace Treaty and when called out on it by George Mitchell and others couldn’t back up her claims. She claimed credit for FMLA when it was Dodd’s legislation he had worked years on and was signed right after Bill Clinton took office. She claimed she dodged sniper fire in Bosnia. She sat there and cheered along when Senator Harkin credited Hillary with Obamacare passing. She’s a credit stealer and always has been. Partially because of her issues with telling the truth and partially because if she had to run on her non-existent accomplishments she would be laughed out of the race.
What I find more interesting is that Hillary who has snidely taken swipes at Kerry in her new book and in her book tour is being eclipsed by Kerry at SoS. Kerry’s been SoS for only 2 years and he has had more major foreign policy successes than Hillary was seriously involved in in her 4 years. Now, Hillary’s supporters will claim that Hillary did all the hard work and Kerry just finalized the deal, but admin officials and reporters are saying that Kerry’s been doing the heavy lifting along with Obama.
AxelFoley
@askew: This.
David Koch
Nothing new.
Why I remember when Hillary landed under sniper fire in Bosnia.
David Koch
ya know, it’s tooo bad Hillary wasn’t in a position of power in the 90s or in a position of influence, or that she didn’t have contact with anyone in office because she might have be able change Cuba policy 20 years ago. Sad — she had to wait 20 years before she had face time with a President.
David Koch
@Spinwheel:
thanks for the laugh. for six years purity trolls, PUMAs, Dead-End Hilbots, Firebaggers have been attacking Obama for not being liberal enough, now (surprise, surprise) they say it’s okay that Hillary isn’t liberal at all. Talk about lack of self awareness and dishonest fraudulent positions.
keep the comedy coming.
Carl Nyberg
@Mandalay:
Rubio’s comment is easy to interpret as, “As long as I have the 1% with me, I could care less that the 99% disagree with me.”
Carl Nyberg
@Allan:
One of the things about White people is the difficulty they have admitting they are wrong when they’ve made a bad decision–often connected to racism or capitalism.
Everyone with minimal knowledge of US politics knows that US Cuba policy has been driven by a cabal of rich White Cubans who want to get their land back from before the revolution.
Optimizing US policy around a few spoiled, rich White Cubans never made sense and it’s been contrary to the interests of everyone else in the United States for decades (really from the beginning but it’s been publicly acknowledged for decades).
So, finally the courage to stand-up to these spoiled rich White Cubans–who don’t have the support of the Cuban American community on Cuba policy–comes from President Obama. And now there’s a group of media people who want to diminish Obama’s credit.
Carl Nyberg
@Tree With Water:
I assume Hillary Clinton used the position as US Senator to build alliances with the Elites and 1%ers. There’s a reason she gets paid a ton of money to speak to financial sector assholes.
What were her big progressive accomplishments in the US Senate?
Which bills did she pass that improved people’s lives?
Did Sen. Clinton sponsor any bills that were particularly innovative or ahead of their time?
Did she organize any filibusters to kill bad legislation?
How did she use her ability to put “holds” on things the Executive Branch or the GOP wanted?
Did Hillary Clinton give any noteworthy speeches on the Senate floor to oppose bad bills? Bad nominees?