In early this morning at the job testing our new network setup (Good news, I can still get to BJ!) and noticed that CNN’s Jim Clancy lost himself his job on Twitter.
He’s basically been there my entire life, and boom, tossed it away to ragetweet about Charlie Hebdo. Go figure.
Open thread.
Tommy
Say what you will about the sportscaster Jim Rome. Sometimes I like him and he is both insightful and LOL funny. Other things just a mean person and a total asshat. But what he says about Twitter is spot on. Twitter is a loaded gun. Put it down and walk away. Nothing good will come of it. Just walk away!
Baud
This is the WaPo headline about Romney’s recent remarks on poverty:
Perhaps it’s because I haven’t had my coffee yet, but I didn’t see anything in the article explaining Romney’s proposal to eradicate poverty.
beth
@Tommy: Yeah, I don’t know how broadcasting to the whole world the first thing that pops into your head is a good idea. Twitter should have a 5 minute delay function where it asks “would you want your mother to see this?”
Baud
@beth:
Thank god Balloon Juice doesn’t have that, or we would never have any comments.
Schlemazel
@Tommy:
No, the trick is to hire some poor intern to tweet for you. Then if it comes undone you blame & fire the intern.
I just don’t see how I can keep giving my superior PR and managerial skill away to you people for free!
Baud
@Schlemazel:
You need to monetize that shit.
MomSense
@Baud:
Also, too mother might not be a moderating force.
Karmus
@Baud: If you make all the poor people into delicious cookies, would that solve the poverty problem?
OzarkHillbilly
so what did Clancy say?
Tommy
@beth: I am kind of surprised they don’t have that as well, or at least an option you can turn on (or heck charge a fee for, since they can’t seem to find a way to make money that represents their “market cap”).
I use like a $2.49 SMS/text messaging app (Go SMS Pro) that gives me 10 seconds to pull back something I send that maybe I shouldn’t have. It is not rocket science from a programming point-of-view.
Baud
@MomSense:
Ha! I’m sure you’re not, MomSense.
Poopyman
@Baud: I suspect it’s just a modest proposal.
Poopyman
It’s really hard to type when there are 2 cats vying for the space in front of the kbd.
(And I can’t see the screen.)
satby
@Poopyman: oh, props for the Swift reference!
I read Rmoney’s remarks earlier and his prescription for the economy is moar tax cuts, moar deregulation, and a return to old-timey values. Must be jealous of Palin.
MomSense
Sounds like Clancy let it all out but what the heck was he even trying to say?
Tommy
@Schlemazel: Of course that is what 95% + of the “famous” people do that are not like Miley Cyprus. I think most pepole would be surprised, and I do some social media (Twitter & Facebook, some LinkedIn) for clients, that the paid versions of apps like HootSuite let you not only management mulitple accounts (so mulitple clients) through one interface, they let you post dozens of Tweets or Facebook posts and schedule them to post in the future so it looks like you are “engaged” with your followers.
I am pretty sure the handful of “famous” (or somewhat famous) people I follow like Adam Savage, Les Stroud, Beck, William Gibson, and Elon Musk all do their own Tweets. If I felt for a second some Intern in the basement of their building was Tweeting for them I’d “Unfollow” them in seconds.
Does kind of defeat the purpose of Twitter doesn’t it ….
JPL
@Tommy: I didn’t realize that twitter had a purpose.
debbie
@Baud:
Bill Maher had a FB post this morning about Mitt, who he says is “back by imaginary demand” for the 2016 election. That phrase is probably not original to Maher, but I still like it. It’d be a great bumper sticker.
khead
@Tommy:
If you’d like, you could just call or write me and I’ll tell you if you should post it. I’ll only charge $2.
different-church-lady
@JPL: Twitter does have a purpose: to eventually make everyone who uses it appear to be a moron.
In that sense Twitter fulfilled its purpose spectacularly.
There’s a reason “twit” is part of the name.
Poopyman
@different-church-lady: To be a little more accurate, it’s a company in the truly American tradition of making one or two spectacularly rich while making everyone else look like morons.
satby
Jeebus, what are you all, 80? Twitter is fine, just need to use the same rules you do for anything else communication wise: think before you open your mouth or Twitter your thumbs ;)
different-church-lady
@satby: The Twitter culture encourages speed over all other qualities. In the time you take to think about things the debate you’re having either dies or is “won” by someone else. It’s a real-time toy, and that the whole damn attraction of the thing.
Judge Crater
@Tommy: Right! If you’re a nobody who wants to shoot his mouth off, Twitter is great. “Social Media” is really a term of art for gossip, cheap gossip, and dirty gossip.
It’s no wonder the world is at each other’s throats. Now we can share all our prejudices, whacko ideas, hate and rage with everyone on the internet. Have a few drinks and launch some mindless speel into the cyber winds.
It reminds me of the book “Main Street.” Sinclair Lewis captured the insidious and pejorative nature of gossip in small town life. The ‘over the fence conversations’ and social small talk. Now it’s all writ large, and boy is it ugly.
Baud
@satby:
I miss the old days when you had to think about what you wanted to say, write it down, get on your horse, go to the telegraph office, and pay Western Union to send your message. You whippersnappers have it so easy.
MomSense
@satby:
One of the cool things about twitter is the ability to engage with people directly. On a blog you engage with other bloggers about some issue or public figure but on twitter you can direct a question or comment directly to that person sometimes with interesting results.
Before twitter, I don’t think we would have known about Ferguson and probably wouldn’t have heard the arguments that were not the official police line.
I don’t post much on twitter, especially now that there is a rambunctious puppy jumping all over me constantly, but I do follow an interesting mix of people and I think that exposes me to a broad range of opinions and experiences I wouldn’t otherwise be able to access.
Iowa Old Lady
@Tommy: I have an online acquaintance whose job is tweeting for various products. She has to do stuff like tweet several times a day about blenders. That’s a job made in hell.
I don’t like twitter. I’m too wordy.
Schlemazel
@Tommy:
I guess I just assumed that all famous people have minions to tweet for them. Not just because this gives them a firewall but because I find tweeting mostly dreary & would not want to do it (I don’t now anyway) if I were famous but it probably needs to be done for the PR value.
NotMax
Don’t know if people remember Don Harrison, one of the original CNN anchors, who stayed there until his death in ’98.
Anyhoo, I worked with him (briefly) in St. Paul (prior to the creation of CNN). Affable fellow and fully professional news anchor. Most people unaware he had one artificial leg, which must have been the proverbial hollow one, as the guy drank like a school of fish. If he was needed for a hot breaking newsflash between the dinnertime and the late newscasts, it was always easy to find him – at his favorite watering hole.
He once said I wrote the best “spontaneous” banter for him to use with the other on-air people in the back-and-forth (read from the Teleprompter) used to ease into commercial breaks, and also to close the program.
Schlemazel
@Baud:
I know! I just give it away for free & nobody respects me in the morning (or afternoon or evening for that matter!)
What I should do is set up an agency that provides college kids money for tweeting for famous folk & charge the famous to have their very own tweet-twaddler. The client would provide a list of things they want to say & the twaddler would vary them from time-to-time so as to appear active. They could have a special text number for occasions when the client just has to say something time-critical but the twaddler would censor them & prevent real damage. If anything goes wrong the kid takes the fall.
This would work for everyone. Some college students would make much needed easy money, Clients would be saved looking like the assholes they probably are & I skim a fat percentage off the top for my services.
raven
@NotMax: I used to drink like that.
dmsilev
@Baud:
Romney has a Modest Proposal to simultaneously eliminate poor people and hunger. And, as a bonus, all of the jobs created by SoylentCo will be outsourced overseas.
Cervantes
@OzarkHillbilly:
@MomSense:
Not sure, either.
My superficial impression is that he’s being run out of town on a rail because he offended the so-called “pro-Israel” crowd one time too many — but, obviously, superficial impressions are unreliable.
GregB
I used to say that the internets have taken what used to be a mentally unstable person who’s opinions were able to reach only as far as his ham radio or mimeographed screeds and placed them into reach of everyone with a computer.
That being said, if you don’t go around in life saying totally dildonic things then Twitter doesn’t change much.
beth
Forgive me if this has been posted already, but I am loving this French tv show takedown of Fox News:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=28b_1421201170
Birthmarker
Hey! I am missing the NewsMax ad on the right! Now it is Wonkette! FTW!
Schlemazel
@NotMax:
I remember Don, great voice but I never met the guy.
If you lived around here you might know of Dave Moore. One of the best TV news anchors ever and also one of the nicest people you would ever want to meet. Not a drop of ego spilled out of him despite having Cronkite-like status in Minnesota; a gem of a guy. But his occasional jokes about Mousey’s was not really a joke. Dave was one of the hardest drinkers I ever met, I have no idea how he kept it together some nights. I miss him every time I turn on the local news & see the clown parade of people who should be following the elephants with shovels & not in the lead float.
OzarkHillbilly
@Schlemazel: I make a real good scapegoat and my prices are exceptionally reasonable.
@Cervantes: I’d take the blame for our lack of knowledge in the twittersphere, but my punishment would probably include joining it. Screw that.
Amir Khalid
@beth:
I’ve always felt that a more honest name for Twitter would be “BrainFart”. But that might be a shade too honest.
Chyron HR
@Karmus: Only if Mitt manages to make it through an entire campaign without making fun of the cookies. For once.
Schlemazel
@beth:
Of course those areas are scary & should be no-go for any Fox loving American! Look, nobody spoke a word of English & a few of them were brown or darker!! Thats just not safe.
Thanks for posting that.
Schlemazel
@OzarkHillbilly:
GREAT! I love when an employee feels humble, it increases MY share of the proceeds. I’ll hire you as soon as the agency gets off the ground/
Betty Cracker
@Cervantes: It appears so at first glance to me too. His tweets in that article seem disjointed, as if maybe he was drunk. But they weren’t wildly offensive in the scheme of things. The use of the word “cripple” was unfortunate but usually wouldn’t be career-ending. It sounds like this might have been a final straw situation.
@GregB: “Dildonic” — hahaha!
Tommy
@Schlemazel: @Iowa Old Lady: I hear both of you. Tweeting, or forced under contract to do a certain number of Tweets about a blender each day, I’d drive my car off a bridge …. or at least take a baseball bat to said blender.
I’ve had clients ask me to do this, but I refuse. I only send out Tweets when my client has something to say that is actually interesting and/or important to who we want as clients.
Now we need to keep a constant stream of Tweets and Facebook posts going, so we need to be thinking about what we can send out all day everyday, but we shouldn’t “force” it or just Tweet to Tweet.
There is also what I and other in the industry called “Twitter Overload.” About 85% of the people I follow are experts in the industries I work in (WordPress, web site design, email marketing, et al). I want to know what they are reading, what new technology they are playing with, conference they are attending, stuff like that.
The rest are people like Adam Savage from Mythbusters, Les Stroud from the TV show Survivorman and an author like William Gibson. The rest are chefs like Alice Water, Eric Ripert, José Andrés, and Thomas Keller.
I used to follow other individuals like the above (Alton Brown is a perfect example) and they just pounded me into the ground with Tweets. At times I’d open up my Twitter feed on my tablet and one person’s Tweets, rapid fire in a few minutes, took up the entire screen. I could “Unfollow” them fast enough.
So in a long winded way I have found my usage, and the research I’ve read, force Tweeting is not really a good long term business concept.
jayboat
Just skimmed the transcript of the shields and brooks convo on npr.com (no desire to watch the video because david brooks) where they discuss the romneybot and the gooper primary…
brooksie gives us nuggets like this:
“But, also, the mood is — first of all, people are really sick of this — the status quo, so they want change, they want freshness.
But then the mood toward all these other candidates who are flowing out there is kind of intrigued. So, some people are sort of intrigued by Marco Rubio or intrigued by Ted Cruz or intrigued by Chris Christie. They’re sort of like interesting figures. And you sort of want to see how it will play out.”
Color me sort of intrigued. Intrigued in a train wreck kinda way.
Cervantes
@OzarkHillbilly:
Here’s something else to boggle the mind: an acquaintance — an acquaintance’s daughter, really — has made a fair amount of money writing “how-to-tweet” materials, including a book or two.
Schlemazel
@dmsilev:
I had not thought of this as the Marquis Du Mittens’ plan. I thought he would want to end poverty as we know it by giving all workers a shack out back of the big house, as much food and clothing as the folks in the big house deemed necessary and occasional light beating to improve moral.
I am deeply grateful to the ol dog torturer returning simply so I could revive his title as the Marquis. Rarely has a monicker more closely fit.
Davis X. Machina
@satby: No, no, that’s his prescription for climate change.
Cervantes
@Tommy:
Do you believe in Hell?
For your sake, I hope not.
Amir Khalid
@Cervantes:
There’s a book’s worth of knowledge on how to tweet? I did not know that.
beth
@Tommy: Tommy, since you do websites I’m curious what you (and anyone else) think about the new websites on CNN and Talking Points Memo? Maybe I’m just an old fart, but I find them confusing and jarring to look at. I used to read TPM fairly often but since they’ve changed over I find myself clicking there a lot less. Is this really the future of what websites will all be like?
Davis X. Machina
@Amir Khalid: There is a book. It’s 286 pages long, counting the index. But the entirety of its actual content is 140 characters.
MomSense
@jayboat:
Those bozos Christie, Cruz, and Rubio give bozos a bad name. He [Brooks] just cannot let himself acknowledge what a farce those intriguing people are. They have no business even considering a run for President. Part of the problem with our media are their unwillingness to just be honest about how insane the Republican party has become.
OzarkHillbilly
@Schlemazel: I insist on doing this as a sub-contractor (which will save from the tyranny of Obamacare) but I get paid in cash only, based on the client’s income level and you will get a percentage based on a sliding scale. Also I get 2nd thru 1,298,359,128,357th printing rights. (all retweets shall count as such and any value shall accrue directly to me)
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Cervantes: I read the link which listed what he supposedly posted. I can’t make sense of it either. Seems too inside-baseball to me.
Why anyone thinks that posting anything even conceivably controversial on Twitter under their own name is a good idea is beyond me. Trying to post a coherent argument in a few paragraphs is hard enough… :-/
Cheers,
Scott.
(It took Bertie a few hundred pages to prove 1+1=2.)
K488
@dmsilev: Don’t forget, The Soylent Green Corporation is people, my friend.
Schlemazel
@Tommy:
Except I think it would be easy money for the twaddler. They are already tweeting a bunch with friends so it would just be a few additional seconds a day. I could even match twaddler to client like match.com does so the twaddler could do lot of the ‘thinking’ on what and when to tweet.
This stupid idea is really coming together! Maybe I should do a kickstarter, except people would probably tell me to go fund myself.
Schlemazel
@OzarkHillbilly:
Oh sure, like workers have rights – you just talked yourself out of a sweet job fella!
OzarkHillbilly
@Cervantes: My little brother and I are working on a book. We’re titling it, “Dying: How to do it Right”.
Elmo
@K488: oh, VERY nice.
lamh36
Without twitter how many people would know about Mike Brown, NAACP bombing, deaths in Nigeria…to name a few recent stories that no major reporting was done until twitter blasted it.
Some of the biggest stories that involved non-white folk that should be reported as significant by regular MSM ONLY got to MSM via Twitter.
At the very least twitter and much of social media have given minorities a means by which to get our stories out there and possibly gain the attention of the larger media, who otherwise consider our stories not important
I mean Boko Haram kidnapping of this young girls was a twitter story long before the Bring Back Our Girls hash tag began trending.
Some of thw he twitter hate sounds like basically “get off my lawn and shut up young people” territory
OzarkHillbilly
@Schlemazel: What… AGAIN?!?!?!???? How’d I do dat?
jayboat
@Cervantes:
Ha- good for her! Capitalism, baby.
Reminds me of guy I knew back in the 70’s who had a friend that ran a little 1-inch ad in the classifieds of some national rag, I think it was Nat’l Enquirer. He sold a single-page 3-fold brochure titled ‘How to Enjoy Chinese Restaurants’ for $2.99 and was pulling in a couple grand a month!
Never underestimate… well, you know.
jayboat
@MomSense:
Totally agree. I believe our lack of a functioning media is the root cause of most of our problems.
People cannot make informed decisions without facts.
dmsilev
@K488: Well played.
MomSense
@lamh36:
Exactly why I appreciate Twitter so much.
Tommy
@beth: I don’t go to CNN but a paying subscriber at TPM and I don’t like the redesign. My gut is I will eventually get used to it, but right now not pleased. I get what they are trying to do, Josh wrote about it in a post when the new site launched, get as much content above the fold so people don’t have to scroll.
To me, and again I’ll get used to it eventually but there is just too much “stuff going on” and my eyes don’t really know where to focus. I am a “white space guy.” Started in advertising before there was an Internet. The concept of “white space” is just because you have an 8.5×11 ad doesn’t mean you have to fill up even inch if it with something. Have some “white space.”
I take the same concept to web design. Just cause I might have 1280 pixels left to right to work with doesn’t mean every pixel needs something in it. For example, and there is both “white” and “black” space here to give contrast between the sections on the home page, is a site I did a few weeks ago.
I could have cramped a ton more stuff in any section, but I really refuse to do it. And at least 9 times out of ten when I show a client a site with “white space” and one that is overloaded, they come around to the “cleaner” and “easier on the eyes” appeal of less is more and “white space” is their friend :)!
blueskies
@MomSense:
I call that a “conversation.”
Twitter is not immediate, it’s near-realtime. Twitter is not direct, it’s via devices.
One of the cool things about real, direct conversation (for me, anyway), is that shared wine or beer are often involved. :)
Now you kids get off my lawn!
lamh36
Tommy
@Cervantes: I worked in advertising for 15 years before I started working for myself. When we’d get the annual survey from the 4As (American Association of Advertising Agencies), by far the largest advertising association, advertising executives like myself were ranked by the public as less honest than used cars salesman.
I know if there is a hell there may already be a place waiting for me with my name on it …. and I did high-tech business-to-business advertising for Fortune 50 firms. Not the crap you see on channel 567 at 3 AM.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@lamh36: Sure, it’s good for things like that. But it’s not good for an argument, or for any thoughts that require expressions of nuance. There just isn’t the space for it.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@lamh36:
Interesting. I hope they can get a lot done before Obama leaves office.
MomSense
Isn’t the root problem of Mitt his inauthenticity? I mean it doesn’t matter what he happens to be saying at any particular moment, the feeling one gets is of not knowing who the heck he really is. It’s like he’s playing political dress up and it is unsettling.
I don’t think his supporters really knew or particularly liked him. He doesn’t exactly bring about a passionate response. The arguments for him were always sort of based on how a hypothetical person with his resume would be a good candidate. It was never actually about him the person.
lamh36
If this is true no surprise…the American majority love seeing whitw folk shoot up Muslim folks
MomSense
@blueskies:
Yeah but would you really want to have a beer with Chuck Todd? At least we get to push back on the stupid crap our pundits and “thought leaders” say.
Betty Cracker
I think one of the underrated and highly beneficial uses of Twitter is to point people toward longer-form stuff on topics that interest them. Where folks get in trouble is when they try to use it for purposes for which it’s not suited, e.g., making a nuanced argument.
beth
@Tommy:
I like that website you did a lot. Very nice work. I have a feeling that TPM at least will be doing a re-design at some point in the near future. I can’t imagine they’re not getting a ton of complaints about the site. (You should drop Josh Marshall an email showing him how it should be done.)
lamh36
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I agree. Never said it was.
Still doesn’t negate the fact that thanka to twitter alot more white folk now are little more aware of what Black folk have been trying to get to the attention of the American majority.
That makes it worth it.
beth
I do like that Twitter gives some pushback to folks like Chuck Todd and Jake Tapper where in the past, there was really no way for non-pundits to dispute the nonsense they sometimes spew. Hopefully it at least makes people think about considering the other point of view.
Gin & Tonic
@lamh36: Precisely. For real-time news, it’s invaluable. As I’ve probably noted, I’ve found Twitter essential for keeping up with events in Ukraine the last year.
ruemara
A good half my time is spent planning Twitter feed postings and Facebook ones. There’s an art to it. The methods of finding content, timing when it’s used and crafting a good intro are fun. On my personal Twitter, I often engage with authors of books I’ve reviewed, hang with people who are doing shows I like and generally heckle pundits I don’t like. It’s fine to not get it but Black Twitter uses it to raise awareness of issues. If you find Twitter stupid, it may be that you’re just looking at stupid people’s feeds.
Schlemazel
@Betty Cracker: THAT would be a great use for twitter, too bad thats not what most people use it for.
lamh36
@lamh36:
hmmm cant wait to read the articles and op-eds and see the news coverage on the inaccuracies in American Sniper?
I’m mean there’re coming right?
MomSense
@lamh36:
It’s a funny thing how sometimes it’s ok to take poetic license in order to tell a story and sometimes it isn’t. But no, it is unpossible that there would be any pattern to when offense is taken at “historical inaccuracies”.
lamh36
People you are aware you don’t actually have to follow people you don’t like on twitter, right?
Ya do know you can chose to follow on “real thinkers” right?
You make of twitter what you want to make of it. Just as wirh commenting on BJ u don’t have to engage any amd everyone on twitter, it truly is up to you
BD of MN
I follow two entities on twitter, both of which I send to my cell phone as texts. First, Minnesota Public Radio has a weather twitter account, so I get a daily forecast, and more importantly for me, they tweet out all MN watches and warnings on a county by county basis. Second is my local liquor store who specializes in all things craft beer, they tweet out newly arriving stuff…
Tommy
@beth: That is very nice of you to say. Both myself, and more importantly the client loves it. Here is another one I am working on (making final copy edits) as we speak. This one isn’t close to what Josh would need, but getting into the type of layout I would say he needs.
With that said I wouldn’t drop him a line for several reasons. With the job postings he has had for web site design in the past he wants you full time and local in NYC. Second, they built their own publishing system and I can only assume it might not be as flexible as I’d like. IMHO this was a HUGE mistake on his part, although he has written long posts of why they did it (they want control — which again IMHO is total BS).
And finally, and this may be hard to believe, but with all the ads it takes to support the staff, office, and the site itself, the ads are really to a large extent dictating the design of his site. Clearly I think it should be the other way around, but I am willing to bet a large steak dinner w/ lobster that is the case.
I am sure Josh would scream that isn’t the case, that the Content is King and the ads wrap around the stories. But no, the content is wrapping around the ads. That puts massive, I mean massive design restricts on their developers, when they know they have large sections of their page that is just, for lack of a better phrase, “off limits.”
debbie
@beth:
From what I’ve seen on Twitter, there’s no consideration at all. It’s become an excuse to pull out the outrage yet again.
GregB
@lamh36:
Bradley Cooper is the new Keifer Sutherland.
I am sure that this film will be cited by Justice Scalia in an opinion any day now.
lamh36
If anything else this past weeks certainly gave evidence to why Black folk still need awards to recognize our own accomplishments and to celebrate and acknowledge our contributions…
To that effect…
shelley
What’s the Twitter version of ‘Drink and Dial’ ?
lamh36
@debbie: than you aren’t following the right people.
Essentially it’s like people being friends with bad people and then being surprised when these bad people do bad things.
You decide who to follow on twitter and you decide who can follow you.
You want a bunch of gossip follow gossip tags etc……
JoyfulA
@lamh36: Via Twitter, I’ve learned a lot early—long before it hits, if it does, the MSM—about Black concerns and also about the Scottish independence vote, right-wing politics in India, and a zillion other topics and interests.
Benefiting from Twitter depends on following interesting tweeters. And “Trends” provides breaking news long before it breaks elsewhere.
I am so much better informed. I love Twitter!
lamh36
On a happier note…Happy Birthday FLOTUS!
Kathleen
@satby: Perhaps we’ve been making incorrect assumption that Romney has proposal for eradicating poverty for “The Poors”. It sounds like he has plan to eradicate it for “The Riches”.
Renie
@Tommy: Very nice website but why does it say Your Logo in the top corner? Is this a template?
Tommy
@JoyfulA:
I have the same experience but it took some effort. I started following a ton of people and took the time to weed out people that sent out too many Tweets and/or things I didn’t care about.
Maybe the best thing I did was look at the people I followed that I respect and learned stuff from, went to their profile, and looked who they followed, and started following them.
Again weeded out the ones that didn’t add value to my Twitter stream.
It took effort. Focused effort. I can easily see how many people with don’t want to do this or have more of a life then I do and would rather play with their kids, go on a date with their spouse, and not be a geek like me.
Twitter can be a powerful tool, but it takes time and effort …. and honestly it is still an ongoing process, although much less time than at the start.
Iowa Old Lady
@MomSense: Mitt is like a robot whose social programming has gone awry.
Kathleen
@Schlemazel: I remember Dave Moore. He was outstanding. We lived in St. Paul from 1961 to 1967. I remember how accurate the weather forecasts were – really – much more so than today. (Yeah, I know, “Get off of my weather radar”). My dad was on air on KDWB during that time.
Jose Padilla
Getting back to Clancy, I’m confused as to what got him fired.
A. Using the term “cripple”
B. Defending Charlie Hebdo
C. Getting crosswise with the Israeli lobby?
Tommy
@Renie: It was done for the client that sells that product, and he is signing up independent brokers by both states and regions of the country. So yes it is a template.This is the site they’ll get for a fee, or they could go to somebody else or do their own.
So this is “your logo here” and on internal pages there are a lot of other places that have similar things, so they know they can “make the page their own” but all the content about the product has to be the same because there are Federal, state, and Compliance related issues about what we can and can’t say about telemedicine/telehealth.
lamh36
Honor King’s Legacy by Protecting Voting Rights http://www.thenation.com/blog/195281/honor-kings-legacy-protecting-voting-rights via @thenation
Kathleen
@lamh36: Well, considering the support for torture the enjoyment of seeing Muslims being blown away, sadly, is not surprising.
Mike in NC
@Iowa Old Lady: There will be no updates to Mittbot v3.0. The entire focus will be on a better marketing effort, including less rather than more exposure to actual people who cannot afford dropping $50,000 to hear him speak.
Kathleen
@MomSense: @lamh36
Interesting take on your comments regarding Selma and American Sniper from, all places, Washington Post (h/t LGM for link):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2015/01/15/the-worst-of-the-2015-oscar-nominations/
WereBear
I handle my Twitter feed by daily posting two previous articles and a third one which is a news item. But of course, this only works because I have a backlog of content.
Social media is a marvelous vehicle for leveraging said content, I must say.
You used to need an open mic to create this much trouble for yourself.
beth
@Kathleen: My favorite part of that article are the comments where the author is yelled at for spoiling the ending of American Sniper by mentioning what happened to Kyle. These must be the same people who were shocked at Titaniic when the boat sank.
jeffreyw
@Tommy: Reminds me of this ad from back in the day.
different-church-lady
@OzarkHillbilly:
Now think about this for a second: dying right is pretty important, because if you get it wrong the first time, you don’t get another shot at it.
different-church-lady
@lamh36:
Because there was no such thing as news before Twitter. How could we be so dumb?Sorry, missed your main point.
Tommy
@jeffreyw: LOL. I have an original of that ad framed and hanging in the small bedroom across from my home office I use as a conference room with nothing but a huge table and framed “famous” ads and ads and creative I’ve done. Some would argue that VW ad is one of the ten best ads of all time. A few would argue the best of all time. And it actually produced results. In the weeks after those ads ran they sold out of the Beattle. Mr. David Ogilvy, maybe the best ad man of the last century did it.
lamh36
@Kathleen: yep. I read her article. It really the only one I’ve seen in wide release news.
And guess what, she is getting some flack for that from the usual Sniper macho squads
different-church-lady
@Gin & Tonic:
Question: how would events in Ukraine be different if you heard about them 4 hours after they happened instead of 20 minutes after they happened?
WereBear
@different-church-lady: The point, and I think it’s a good one, is that a great many news stories would continue to be ignored if there wasn’t pressure from Twitter fans who bring such news to public attention.
Just Some Fuckhead
Before Twitter you would have to drunkenly assault a female co-worker at the annual Christmas party to lose your job in a spectacularly shameful way.
different-church-lady
@WereBear: Let’s advocate this devil even further: how have events in Ukraine been changed due to “our” awareness of them?
Davis X. Machina
@different-church-lady: You’re probably waiting as it its. You can only get the real news from Bob in Portland anyways, and he’s not that fast.
Davis X. Machina
@OzarkHillbilly: This was a long-established literary genre in the Renaissance-and-Reformation period. Ars moriendi.
different-church-lady
@Just Some Fuckhead: This, I suspect is one of the reasons news-types were the hard-core early adopters and evangelists of Twitter. They sensed Twitter’s subtle “gotcha” qualities because they live in a gotcha world. It just never occurred to them that they could wind up in the snare too.
different-church-lady
@Davis X. Machina: In Bob’s case I would replace the word “fast” with “swift”.
max
@Jose Padilla: Getting back to Clancy, I’m confused as to what got him fired.
C. Getting crosswise with the Israeli lobby?
We have a winner!
Almost related NYT headline: Patriot Act Idea Rises in France, and Is Ridiculed
Freedom fries!
max
[‘Whatta country.’]
Schlemazel
@Kathleen:
Wasn’t Rob Sherwood was it? :)
Actually that would have been early for him. I met a guy from KDWB when my dad ran for County Commissioner about ’66. Don Nickles I believe. The world couldn’t be that small, could it?
Schlemazel
@Mike in NC:
And confiscating all cell phones & recording devices before he speaks
Schlemazel
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Unless you were the boss in which case, boys will be boys and you know she wanted it.
Just Some Fuckhead
Someone needs to invent Prattle, Twitter Without The Twits. And a Prattle subscription comes with a USB breathalyzer.
Schlemazel
@Schlemazel:
the more I think about it the more I am sure it was not Don Nickles. I am getting confused because the one thing I really remember is he ended his show with. and don’t take any nickel nickels!”
lamh36
Redshift
@Tommy: it’s a lot easier if you start out by following people you know, and pick up more from interesting tweets and conversations from them. I guess Twitter culture may “encourage speed over all other qualities” if you’re on it to “win” arguments or to chase trending topics and try to become twitter-famous, but that hasn’t been my experience. When talking on Twitter with normal people (that whole social media thing), I can respond to something hours later and continue the conversation.
different-church-lady
@Redshift: You point towards a valuable distinction between Twitter The Tool and Twitter the Social Phenomenon.
lamh36
@Redshift: Exactly right.
srv
@Just Some Fuckhead: Why doesn’t John pay you to be BJ’s tweeterer?
Gin & Tonic
@different-church-lady: They wouldn’t. But it’s important to me.
That said, often the time lag is much more than 20 minutes to 4 hours; often one or two days. And, for better or worse, not filtered by an editor. There are insights I’ve gotten and angles on events that I’ve read about on Twitter that never make it to the “mainstream” news, like BBC or The Economist.
Splitting Image
@lamh36:
Agreed. Block any tweets that appear with the #tcot hashtag and Twitter is no worse than any other form of social media.
kc
I see a lot of prominent journalists attempting to be clever on Twitter, tweeting lame stuff and getting in arguments and pissing matches with other tweeters.
Makes them look stupid, even if they don’t go far enough to get themselves fired.
different-church-lady
@Gin & Tonic:
Bingo. Now I can ditch my tedious Socratic method.
People who evangelize Twitter don’t want to come right out and say it, but their primary attraction to Twitter is themselves — it’s not the fact that they know something, it’s the fact that they know something. And they got to know it using their phone, and it broke up the tedium of their quotidian struggle, while at the same time contributing to the quotidian quality of the struggle.
On occasion it’s used to convey important information, and at those times Twitter fans use that to to advance the illusion that the tool itself was important, without acknowledging that the information still could have arrived though other perfect good (and perhaps better) means. Unspoken is the primary subconscious emotion: “I think this is important because I know it — because it involves me and stimulates me, and does so in a way that makes it seem immediate.”
It’s the ultimate toy for the ADHD generation — until the next thing comes along.
Tommy
@kc: I see that as well and I only follow one or two journalist. I get that a lot of journalist are not one TV. They don’t write op-eds. They don’t get to let the public see their personality. I get Twitter gives them an outlet to do that.
But I learned a long time ago what I find interesting, or funny, you might not. Other way around. And sometimes what I find funny or interesting you might be offended by.
As I said in the first comment on this thread, if you are a public figure (and even if you are not) Twitter is like a loaded gun. You might want to put it down and walk away slowly.
lamh36
Twitter also provided a way to pushback directly instantly to journos and publications or oped writers or opinion writer without the use of screening reader response like so many journos try to do.
Hello, much of the pushback against WHPC has been on twitter. How many “letters to the editors” actually get direct answers from them?
Chuck Todd says some stupid shit on MTP…pushback on twitter can be instant when otherwise Todd gets to about with the bullshit unscathed.
I follow alot of the WHPC and I certainly use twitter to clap back at tapper, Garrett and the like when they purposely distort shit.
Just Some Fuckhead
@srv: I’m guessing it’s because he doesn’t want to explain why Balloon Juice keeps sending out dick pics to the world. But I dunno, he may have other more mysterious reasons.
different-church-lady
@lamh36:
Ironic, since probably half the stupid shit Todd says on MTP is driven by memes that spread up into the mainstream conversation using (wait for it…) tools like Twitter.
gogol's wife
@Gin & Tonic:
Have you seen the unbelievably disingenuous interview with Gergiev in the Sunday Times magazine? He says Russians don’t know anything about Obama and Americans don’t know anything about Putin, so it’s all good. I would like to write a protest, but it doesn’t seem worth the energy. “Russians have spilled so much blood in the Crimea over the past 200 years.” “Americans don’t know what it’s like to go through 1917 and 1941, the worst thing you’ve had is the Depression.” And so on. What a jerk.
WereBear
@different-church-lady: What other outlets are there for pushback? Idiots can make fools of themselves on Twitter saying the exact same things they say on news shows, where it gets their ass kissed.
There has to be a place to talk back. If it’s Twitter, I’ll take it.
lamh36
@different-church-lady:
Fine you win. Twitter is the devil has no redeeming qualities and should be shut down for being a scourge on society.
Happy now.
different-church-lady
@WereBear:
You have heard of the internet, yes?
I’m old enough to remember when all the very same things that were being said about Twitter were being said about blogs. Yes, I’m THAT old!
kc
@Tommy:
I’ve tweaked a few schmuck journalists myself (Fournier!). Why not, they’re there and it’s easy. But I’ve seen some journalists I like get drawn into stupid arguments with trolls. It just seems like a such a waste of time and mental energy.
different-church-lady
@lamh36:
Extremely.
different-church-lady
@kc:
Whaddaya mean waste? Timekill is the very goal of the exercise!
lamh36
@different-church-lady: if a bunch of commenters on a blog say the same thing, does it make a sound.
other than the rare Tapper sighting on BJ commentary, how exactly is commenting on blogging any different or better than pushing back directly at Todd and the like via Twitter?
lamh36
@kc: again, they “chose” to engage, much as people “chose”to engage trolls on blogs.
@different-church-lady:
Oh and it’s it ALL about time killing? Commenting on blogs aren’t in fact just time killers?
Cervantes
@lamh36:
Great questions.
gogol's wife
I am not on Twitter and will never be on Twitter, but I believe that in the hands of people like Patton Oswalt and John G. Cole, it is an art form.
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
You’re old enough to remember people complaining about a 140-character limit on blog posts?
Cckids
@beth:
George Clooney once said he doesn’t use Twitter because he likes to drink too much, and sooner or later he’d send some gem out at 3 a.m. , & then have to explain or walk it back, and life’s too short for that shit.
If only more celebrities felt that way.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Cervantes: No one would be complaining if it was a 140 character lifetime limit.
different-church-lady
@lamh36: So, basically Twitter is important because it’s the only thing anyone will pay any attention to anymore?
That’s fine until Twitter becomes passe and we move on to the next thing that makes up feel important. In the meantime hardly anything about many ways in which our world is dysfunctional actually changes.
This digital water cooler thing is a hell of a lot less important than our obsession with it makes it seem. The only reason you get an opportunity to “push back” at Todd is because either Todd or the organization he works for feels that it is important to capitalize on the social media phenomenon in order to drive traffic to their brand (or whatever other way you want to organize the buzzwords).
Or Todd does a personal Twitter account and says something stupid and we all push back against it, except that we’d all be far better off if Todd didn’t have a way to blast his stupidity off to millions of people at a time.
Or Todd says something stupid and we use our own Twitter accounts to push back. Except that Twitter is a really lousy way of making any kind of coherent or thorough argument.
Twitter is not the only tool out there. It’s merely the tool that has maximum buzzworthyness as of the moment, and thus the only tool people will pay any attention to. That might be the way the world works, and we all need to live with it and use it to our advantage, but let’s not kid ourselves about what is really going on.
Tommy
@kc: Oh I didn’t say you shouldn’t push back, mock them, or tweak them if you so desire. More power to you, keep them honest! I started off following a lot of journalist and of all the groups of people I followed they really seemed to add the least to my Twitter feed (which I now value a lot).* I find that sad, because their job is to convey information and provide analysis, so they should have been the best people I was following. So not the case.
*The only four I currently follow are Glenn Greenwald, Jay Rosen, Spencer Ackerman, and Matt Taibbi … which I guess if you didn’t know I was on this blog right now would give you a pretty good idea of my politics.
Cervantes
@lamh36:
Glad to hear it. More power to you, says I.
different-church-lady
@Cervantes: Heh. No, but I do remember when blogging was considered to be a tool for quick-and-short offerings and people were fretting it would kill long-form writing. In the world before smart phones, blogging was a speed tool.
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
You do realize he’s on network television, yes?
(Not to mention cable TV.)
different-church-lady
@lamh36:
I think you’re starting to get what I’m saying, big-picture wise.
Kathleen
@lamh36: I am shocked, shocked I tell you.
different-church-lady
@Cervantes: When you think about it, my statement still stands.
Kathleen
@Schlemazel: My dad was Jim O’Neill, and he was on morning drive in 1966! But the name Rob Sherwood sounds familiar. The PD at KDWB (my dad’s boss) was Sam Sherwood. My dad was also involved in DFL politics. We attended the state DFL convention where the coup against Karl Rolvaag was brewing.
Kathleen
@Schlemazel: That was my dad. He also said, “Buy Bonds”.
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
None of these things are prominent in my memory, for what it’s worth.
To the best of my recollection, and this goes back to 1993 when the first blogs appeared and before they were even called “blogs,” there was never a technical limit on how much writing a person could put in a blog post.
mai naem mobile
@gogol’s wife: you forget tbogg who has.some awes ome tweets. Theres some very funny and smart people on the twitter machine.
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
Sure, but it seemed to me that’s not what you meant to begin with.
gogol's wife
@mai naem mobile:
I said “people like”! It’s a tool like any other, and if the person using it is smart and creative, it can be great.
Cervantes
@Jose Padilla:
Me, too, but I’m (still) guessing the third.
Kathleen
@lamh36: Good for you. I have Twitter account but don’t use it and while I “follow” many people I rarely spend time reading tweets.
You and other commenters have made good case for Twitter. I am aware of the success Black Twitter has had pushing stories into the mainstream. This is a much needed development. Maybe I should spend some more time there.
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
May be true, but it does not negate or illegitimize the opportunity to praise him, talk to him, educate him, humiliate him, etc.
Cervantes
@Just Some Fuckhead:
!
different-church-lady
@Cervantes: Correct, there was no technical limit. But there was a conceptual change. The thing that was revolutionary about blogging software was supposed to make it easy post something without all the tedious mucking about with HTML. You could type something up, hit send, and have it appear in a timeline driven form without having to deal with code or FTP (or even a traditional web hosting company).
So, if we again distinguish between the tool and the social phenomenon, then yes there weren’t limitations in the tool, but on the usage side there were encouragements to use it for speed — post what you want more quickly. It became a political phenomenon because “rapid response” became important to political campaigning (which is a feedback loop, but that’s a topic for another time).
Mobile devices and Twitter took this phenomenon and threw it in a cyclotron.
Just Some Fuckhead
@different-church-lady:
And this is how Tourette’s Engine was born.
Tommy
@Kathleen: I use Twitter daily for work with my clients. Have for years. Heck I was a beta tester of the software before anybody knew what a Tweet or a Hashtag was. Years later I had to almost physically force myself to use it for “myself.”
I wouldn’t go as far to say I am addicted, but it is something I spend more than a few minutes with daily. I’ll check it while cooking or eating breakfast/lunch/dinner. Waiting on hold. On a conference call where people are just taking and there is no direction nor any reason for me to be on the call. In the commercial break of a TV program.
BTW: If you have an Anroid phone look to an app like Plume or HootSuite (and there are most for iOS as well). Lots more third party apps out there that IMHO make following and reading your Twitter feeds a lot easy then Twitter itself.
different-church-lady
@Cervantes: But in the big picture, doing any of that ascribes more importance to him than he merits.
Other than the TV gig, the battlefield is level. He’s got Twitter, we’ve got Twitter. When we “push back” against him, it’s like gnats pushing back against a cow.
I understand we don’t get to choose the battlefronts we fight on, but lets not kid ourselves about what our weapons actually achieve. We’d be far better off talking to our friends more often than trying to convince us (or the rest of the world) that Todd is an idiot.
Gin & Tonic
@different-church-lady: I never said Twitter was important for humanity. I’ve always said it’s important to me. If you don’t think it’s important or valuable, I believe you are free to ignore it. I think you’re also free not to tell others who use it or like it that they shouldn’t.
different-church-lady
@Gin & Tonic: *shrug* Meant nothing personal. I’m just offering my worthless observations for whatever they’re worth.
Howard Beale IV
History shows Twitter is the most dangerous place for talking heads.
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
Well, that may have been your experience and may now be your memory — and it may well be the case objectively — that many bloggers, in spite of their own natural reticence, were pushed hard by the appearance of “blogging software” to make many short blog posts rather than few or none.
Me, I’m skeptical — and anyway, we’re agreeing, you and I, that people who really wanted to write and post long articles always could do so, and still can — and this is not really the case with Twitter.
The two modes are different and I think there’s room for both. At this late date I’m still extremely unlikely to sign up for Twitter — but I do see it can be useful in some circumstances.
Kathleen
@Tommy: Thanks for the tip! I do not yet have a smart phone (am being forced to get one and find a new carrier since Cincinnati Bell was bought out by Verizon) so I think that’s probably why I don’t spend time on Twitter now. I spend my online time reading blogs on my home PC. When I get more online access with a smart phone I will probably spend much more time on Twitter.
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
There was once an Emperor bragging about his new clothes. A little kid cried out to him …
Tommy
@Kathleen: Well several of the apps have a stand alone version that will run on a desktop/laptop PC. Even better if your run Google Chrome you have a ton of options, with HootSuite maybe being the best. In fact with an app like HootSuite, through one app and interface you can read your Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Google+ and many other social media accounts. Might be more then you need, but I swear the experience just with follow Twitter is far superior.
Here is a good run down of the major apps. They all pretty much do the same thing. Find the one where you like the interface and how it works and go with it. They are all also free.
http://webtrends.about.com/od/pr6/tp/The-Top-10-Social-Media-Management-Applications.htm
different-church-lady
@Cervantes: That’s a story. In the real world the kid got sent to reform school.
kc
@lamh36:
Yeah, I’m not really looking for an argument here. Just making a comment about what I’ve observed.
different-church-lady
@Cervantes:
We are.
I am not bashing Twitter as a technology. I’m bashing it as a social phenomenon. I’m bashing the way we use Twitter, and the destruction it does to our expectations for how public debate is conducted. And I’m bashing the empty-minded acceptance of it — our willingness to let its exciting qualities serve as a cover for its destructive qualities.
I can see many perfectly good uses for Twitter. But none of those are exciting enough to create billions of market valuation or clickbait. So we don’t talk about any of those.
sm*t cl*de
@Gin & Tonic: I’ve found Twitter essential for keeping up with events in Ukraine the last year.
Isn’t it easier to read BiP’s comments and assume that the opposite is true?
Kathleen
@Tommy: Thanks again, Tommy!
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@different-church-lady:
Keep in mind that when you bash Twitter overall as a social phenomenon, you’re also bashing Black Twitter and people like lamh36 who are convinced (with a lot of justice) that without Twitter, Michael Brown’s death would have just been a 5-minute segment on the local news, if that. I agree that there are a lot of “social justice” tweeters who seem to think that all they need to do is post snarky responses and their job is done, but other people are using it a lot more effectively.
I guess the question is, should a medium be judged solely by its lowest common denominator, or should it be looked at as a whole? Is the medium of television bad because “The Bachelor” and other terrible television exists, or does it depend on results since television also brought us “Breaking Bad,” “The Sopranos,” etc?
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): That is indeed a good thing to keep in mind. Thank you.
“As a whole” I would say the Michael Brown push-up is one of the outliers, and the vast majority of Tweets are worthless or worse.
As I’ve said, Twitter is a tool. It happens to be the tool of the moment. So when the tool gets used for good, then great. But just because we used the tool for good in this moment, it does not stand to follow that (a) it is the only tool that could have been used and (b) the good that occurred would not have occurred without that very tool.
As for TV, for a few years now I’ve had an observation that when the topic of “Breaking Bad” comes up people talk about television like we’re living in a golden age, but if the topic is “Honey Boo Boo” then it’s like we’ve found the bottom of the barrel and drilled a hole in it. And sometimes it’s the same people doing the talking (including myself).
As for my own feelings (and I started that sentence that way for no more than the kick of starting every graph in this comment with the word “As…”) I’d say the ratio between the good Twitter and the worthless/destructive Twitter is hella hella HELLA lower than with TV. But in the end what really gets me twitchy is when people ascribe importance to something that in actuality they’re using as either a pacifier or a toy, and blindly at that.
Another Holocene Human
@NotMax: I guess that means you never directed him to close a segment with “Keep plucking that chicken,” so he could go viral sounding like a cock.
Another Holocene Human
@jayboat: That conversation was one for the ages. Brooks is a very peculiar breed of ass (and I’ve no particular love for Shields, either, to be clear).
PBS’ reasoning about not airing the Hebdo cartoons (“Not just no, but hell no,”) was interesting, and consistent with their overall broadcast policies. Brooksie’s justification–which he admits came AFTER he found out one of his employers had chosen not to print the material–is just a … well I don’t know what it was. But it was weird.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@different-church-lady:
If you look at TV, 99 percent of it is complete and utter trash. “Duck Dynasty” anyone? You do have to wade through a lot of crap to get to the good stuff. Twitter is the same way, which is why I think of it as a medium, not a toy or a social phenomenon. The good things about Twitter are really good and shouldn’t be discounted, and I don’t think thsr the fact that there’s also a lot of useless commercials, self-promotion, ego-stroking, etc. discounts it as a medium.
JimV
Way too late on my part, but:
I read the link from the link from the link to get to some characterization of what Clancy actually tweeted. I agree with what he said about Charlie Hebdo (that the cartoons weren’t disparaging Mohammed but were of the form, “Why are those idiots doing those things in my name? Didn’t they read my book?”) The use of the word “cripple” was as part of a figure of speech about predators who attack the easiest victims, the cripples on the outskirts of the herd. At this point I have much more sympathy for him than for the partisan groups which misrepresented what he said to drum up outrage and get him fired.
If I were him (and could write well) I’d write a book of memoirs telling my side of the story.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
There’s a serious irony singularity opening up here…
Schlemazel
@Kathleen:
Don’t know if you will see this as it is much later but we we at hockey games all day.
It was in politics that I ran into your dad, he seemed to me to be a really good guy. I was a dumb kid much impressed with meeting someone I listened to regularly. He talked to me like a person & not like a dumb kid. It meant a lot to me at the time.