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You are here: Home / Food & Recipes / Crock Pot Craziness / What Could Possibly Go Wrong

What Could Possibly Go Wrong

by Tom Levenson|  January 21, 20154:09 pm| 104 Comments

This post is in: Crock Pot Craziness, Gun nuts

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When self selected vigilantes assaulting armed strangers in public spaces?

Consider this incident:

According to the Hillsborough  Sheriff’s Office, [African-American] 62-year-old Clarence Daniels was entering Walmart with his legally concealed firearm to buy coffee creamer on Tuesday when he was spotted by 43-year-old vigilante Michael Foster.

Foster, who is white, had observed Daniels conceal the weapon under his coat before he came into the store. When Daniels crossed the threshold, Foster tackled him and placed him in a chokehold…

Florida, Jake…but at least the worst outcomes were avoided:

He’s got a gun!” Foster reportedly exclaimed.

“I have a permit!” Daniels repeatedly shouted back.

After a struggle, the men were separated. Deputies later arrived and Foster was charged with battery.

V0017125 Head of a man, composed of nude figures. Oil painting.

So:  no one died.  Good.

A couple of thoughts, though:  (a) what kind of asshole do you have to be to decide that you want to walk around looking for folks to bash based on whether they look hinky to you?  B)  if it’s really all about guns, then what’s going to keep you from going all George Zimmerman at any point in the drama?  That this ended with neither the victim nor the self-appointed asshole on a gurney is just a signal that FSM was dangling its noodly appendage down Hillsborough way that day, nothing more.

The most obvious take away is, of course, that this couldn’t possibly be about race because (nods to Charlie Pierce) it’s never about race.  Except…

Again, I see it as a near miracle that the legal gun owner who happened to be black is still alive right now.  The white vigilante is lucky too, certainly — jumping a guy with a gun is not a long-term health strategy — but we’ve seen too much lately of what even the merest hint that an African American man or kid! might be armed does to their odds.

But I want to point out the essential current here, the unifying thread that runs through all of these incidents, the tragedies and the bathetic ones alike.  That’s fear, brought on by the worship of the gun.  How on earth is vigilante-ism even a thing in 2015 America?  It’s because the toxic combination of racial and class politics and unlimited arsenals produce terror and rage in equal and toxic admixture.

Worst of all is then how normal this all seems to those in the midst of it.  Consider this advice:

“The Sheriff’s Office recommends that vigilante-inclined citizens refrain from taking matters into their own hands, especially when an incident is gun-related,” the Tampa Bay Times reported.

McKinnon said that vigilantes should “make sure there’s a good reason” before tackling gun owners.

Ya think?

In the end the fact that actual bad guys do not in fact carry neon signs to identify them  (no Poor Impulse Control tattoos yet) means that, well, it’s a target rich environment.

“Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen,” McKinnon noted. “We understand it’s alarming for people to see other people with guns, but Florida has a large population of concealed weapons permit holders.”

In other words:  be careful out there.  Someone, soon, is going to get killed in one of these stunts.  And once again the tree of liberty will be watered with the blood of someone just going about their business, or a kid who happens to be in the next aisle when the stray shot comes home or…

Not to mention, except I will, again:  the racial element here.  White guys chasing black guys they fear is an old trope in American life.  It’s with us still.  Video at eleven.

PS:  I’m totally with Bryant Gumbel here.

Image: F. Balbi, The head of a man composed of writhing nude figures, poss. 1868.

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Reader Interactions

104Comments

  1. 1.

    Mike J

    January 21, 2015 at 4:16 pm

    The legal gun owner knew what would happen if he shot a white man and the cops showed up. Permit or no, he wouldn’t have made it out of Walmart alive.

  2. 2.

    Tree With Water

    January 21, 2015 at 4:17 pm

    To be sure, it’s never about race.

    There’s an episode of the Andy Griffith show in which Gomer Pyle places Barney Fife under citizen’s arrest. Why that springs to mind I can’t explain.

  3. 3.

    Keith G

    January 21, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    To bad the victim of this assault wasn’t able to stand his ground and plug the asshole who was attacking him.

  4. 4.

    Mike E

    January 21, 2015 at 4:20 pm

    @Tree With Water: That ep was about the letter of the law and petty bickering which, on its own, is okay, except when Barney has more than ONE bullet and is totally unhinged, then Gomer is gettin’ capped. Just sayin’.

  5. 5.

    trollhattan

    January 21, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    “Florida Man Accosts Florida 2/3 Man–hilarity ensues”

    How does The Onion stay in business?

  6. 6.

    ranchandsyrup

    January 21, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    Vigilantes really show a lack of respect for law enforcement personnel. Why do they hate LEOs?

  7. 7.

    wenchacha

    January 21, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    Because FSM swooped in and nobody got killed, this story will serve to prove the fact that everyone must carry a gun to make us safe.

    Is it legal, as a citizen, to wear body armor? I wouldn’t think that would stop anybody from doing so, not in Red Dawn America.

    On MLK day, a radio program talked about “Vigilants,” the group of people in the NE corridor of the states who sought to help escaped slaves and vulnerable black freemen remain free of the kidnappers who made their money shipping captives to the South for sale.

  8. 8.

    KG

    January 21, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    what kind of asshole do you have to be to decide that you want to walk around looking for folks to bash based on whether they look hinky to you?

    Someone who has seen too many Segal/Van Damm/Statham/Diesel movies and never matured after 15?

  9. 9.

    jl

    January 21, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    @KG:

    No love for Wilis?

    And re post:

    ” That’s fear, brought on by the worship of the gun. ”

    Mixed with a fear and hatred of those other people who don’t look like you, and you are just fed up with them getting away with stuff. Never forget the role of racism and bigotry of every description, mostly on the part of the oppressed and long suffering white man (/snark)

  10. 10.

    kindness

    January 21, 2015 at 4:30 pm

    Definitely wasn’t the blackness. No siree. Why would you even suggest such a thing in this day and age?

  11. 11.

    ranchandsyrup

    January 21, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    @trollhattan: hey trolly, hope all is well with you and yrs. Saw that Westlands is planting almond trees with the intent of having them die and then making the econ. argument. Clownnnnnnns.

    Westlands is a world leader in water conservation. Water deliveries are metered to ensure maximum efficiency is used for every drop of water.

  12. 12.

    ET

    January 21, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    The problem with “good enough reason” is that for many white people that is a very low threshold that includes being black and most definitely being black and carrying a legally allowed concealed weapon. It somehow never seems to have occurred to the people pushing this dumb ass law that in fact, there are black people who would want to carry a concealed weapon if for no other reason than to protect themselves from idiot white people with guns. Hoisted by their own petard indeed.

    The surprise – other than the fact that no one died – is that there aren’t more of these cases.

  13. 13.

    Geeno

    January 21, 2015 at 4:32 pm

    @trollhattan: It’s 3/5 not 2/3.

  14. 14.

    pseudonymous in nc

    January 21, 2015 at 4:36 pm

    I’m sure the NRA will be on the case any… time… now…

  15. 15.

    different-church-lady

    January 21, 2015 at 4:38 pm

    McKinnon said that vigilantes should “make sure there’s a good reason” before tackling gun owners.

    “Otherwise you might be confronting a guy that is legally permitted to carry a gun,” he pointed out.

    Annnnnnnnnd…. is there perhaps another point you’d like to add to that, Mr. McKinnon?

  16. 16.

    trollhattan

    January 21, 2015 at 4:38 pm

    @ranchandsyrup:
    Howdy back! Looks like they left something out: “…used for every drop of water we can prise from others’ grasp.”

    Also, too, “Never mind those pesky fish. What did a fish ever do for you?”

    Whaddya think of the Sups refusing to review that water case? Am sure that has some panties in a wad.

  17. 17.

    trollhattan

    January 21, 2015 at 4:38 pm

    @Geeno:
    Rounding error. “It’s Florida, Jake”

  18. 18.

    Villago Delenda Est

    January 21, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    @trollhattan: Please. 3/5ths. Not 2/3rds.

    On edit: /shakefist Geeno.

    And trollhattan: WIN comeback!

  19. 19.

    sempronia

    January 21, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    shopping for coffee creamer, huh? how ironic…

  20. 20.

    JPL

    January 21, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    Tom, The oil that you chose for the article, scares me. It has angry white man written all over it.

  21. 21.

    dedc79

    January 21, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    Paradise for certain of these gun nuts would look something like Cormac McCarthy’s Blood Meridian.

  22. 22.

    Villago Delenda Est

    January 21, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    @ET:

    there are black people who would want to carry a concealed weapon if for no other reason than to protect themselves from idiot white people with guns.

    Wait a fucking second here! Black people might have guns, too? Shit, this would never have been allowed back in the day, along with literacy.

  23. 23.

    Villago Delenda Est

    January 21, 2015 at 4:45 pm

    @ranchandsyrup: Let’s ask Cliven Bundy and his posse about that? How about those two white supremacists who went out of their fucking way to kill some cops in Vegas?

  24. 24.

    Betty Cracker

    January 21, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    The tackler was probably a racist knob for assuming that the black guy was going to rob or shoot up the store. But the tacklee was a fucking moron too for carrying a gun into a Walmart.

    We understand it’s alarming for people to see other people with guns, but Florida has a large population of concealed weapons permit holders.

    And that’s the fucking problem right there, in addition to the race angle. Nobody should be carrying a gun into a retail outlet. This is not a war zone — or shouldn’t be.

  25. 25.

    ranchandsyrup

    January 21, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    @trollhattan: I didn’t think that the USSC would take it up — but I know quite a few people who were counting on it and are now terribly upset.

  26. 26.

    Villago Delenda Est

    January 21, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    @kindness: This entire thread is going to be dripping with snark.

    Cole should quickly build a pool to contain it all.

  27. 27.

    Villago Delenda Est

    January 21, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    This is not a war zone — or shouldn’t be.

    The goal of the NRA and its paymasters is to turn the entire country into a war zone, because war is good for their business.

  28. 28.

    dedc79

    January 21, 2015 at 4:49 pm

    @Betty Cracker: But this is the brilliance (horrible, I know) of the NRA’s plan. The more people they arm, the more people who will want to be armed.

    It’s a variation on what happened with SUVs. Once some people had them (and some of those people used them to bully smaller cars on the road), people in small cars no longer felt as safe, so they went and bought SUVs.

  29. 29.

    different-church-lady

    January 21, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    The tackler was probably a racist knob for assuming that the black guy was going to rob or shoot up the store. But the tacklee was a fucking moron too for carrying a gun into a Walmart.

    Hmmmm… you know, you put a steel cage around that and you got yourself the next MMA-style television show!

  30. 30.

    kc

    January 21, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    Maybe the tackler was just trying to protect the gun-toter from being shot by a toddler.

    It happens, you know.

  31. 31.

    jl

    January 21, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    ” This is not a war zone ”

    This did happen in Florida, right? Or did I miss something.

    Maybe more and more Floridians are thinking best to carry a gun at all times. If anything happens where some one ends up dead (fist fight, accident, whatever), you can pull out the gun and shoot the person and its all good. That is my current understanding of the situation down there.

  32. 32.

    charluckles

    January 21, 2015 at 4:52 pm

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    Go read the comments at Rolling Stone. The NRA “bat signal” has been lit.

  33. 33.

    Eric U.

    January 21, 2015 at 4:53 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: too bad oil prices are so low, a pool of snark is nearly worthless right now.

    I got nothing to say about this story. People carrying guns just means that someone is going to wind up dead sooner or later. It’s moronic.

  34. 34.

    kc

    January 21, 2015 at 4:55 pm

    Here’s the video.

  35. 35.

    ranchandsyrup

    January 21, 2015 at 4:59 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Heh indeedy. they’re moving quickly from fake libertarian to fascist.

  36. 36.

    exurbanmom

    January 21, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    It’s funny: my reaction to seeing anyone with a concealed weapon is to walk the other way. guns are scary, period.

  37. 37.

    trollhattan

    January 21, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    @ranchandsyrup:
    SWEAR I didn’t go to this link on purpose, but I love, love, love how “Sovereign California” has their feefees hurt because the dang federal gummint won’t intervene against the federal gummint in the allocation of federally collected and delivered water.

    SAN DIEGO – Sovereign California denounced the U.S. Supreme Court today after it rejected an appeal by California farmers and local water districts to lift federal regulations which have turned much of California’s fertile central valley into a man-made dust bowl, hurting California’s agricultural economy and devastating much of its landscape.

    “In less than two months, Sovereign California will file its People’s Censure of the Federal Government Initiative with the California Attorney General’s Office which will give the residents of California the chance to express their discontent with the federal government in a vote of no confidence in 2016. The Supreme Court today has given the people of California yet another reason to support a vote of no confidence and another reason to stand up and say its time for California to go it alone.” Louis J. Marinelli, the President of the Sovereign California political committee said.

    The People’s Censure of the Federal Government, which the organization has drafted and intends to submit for title and summary on March 2 this year, already includes text censuring the U.S. Supreme Court for ignoring California’s case against federal water regulations back in 2013. Now the organization says today’s decision by the Supreme Court just strengthens the case for censure and provides a new case in point.

    They sound nice. Maybe y’all can do lunch.

  38. 38.

    Iowa Old Lady

    January 21, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    I have mixed feelings here because I find the presence of a gun to be alarming no matter who’s carrying it. I was born and raised in right in the city of Detroit, and in my experience, a gun never makes a situation better. We’re assuming the vigilante was reacting to race, and that’s probably a safe assumption, but I don’t want to see guns on my fellow grocery shoppers.

  39. 39.

    davis

    January 21, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    I’m so happy that liberals are so 2nd Amendment tolerant, now. All we had to do is let a few Non-Whites legally pack heat under their coats and all is well in Muricuh. OOH-RUH!

  40. 40.

    jl

    January 21, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    @trollhattan: Oh NO! Not the People’s Censure of Sovereign California! Obama and his jackbooted thugs of the Interior Department will come groveling, I tell you.

  41. 41.

    KG

    January 21, 2015 at 5:04 pm

    @jl: I could have added a few more… Willis, the Governator, non-Rocky Stallone, etc etc etc

  42. 42.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    January 21, 2015 at 5:04 pm

    McKinnon said that vigilantes should “make sure there’s a good reason” before tackling gun owners.

    Here’s a better idea: walk away and call the cops. I know this makes many people’s penii feel small; but there’s no help for that, and it’s far safer for all concerned.

    This country sucks. Nation of fucking imbeciles.

  43. 43.

    pluege

    January 21, 2015 at 5:04 pm

    But I want to point out the essential current here, the unifying thread that runs through all of these incidents, the tragedies and the bathetic ones alike. That’s fear, brought on by the worship of the gun.

    sorry, but that is just not right. Fear is always there – always will be – its human nature. What the gun does is embolden people to act out their violent responses to their fear, incorrectly, psychotically, cowardly thinking that they’ll assuage their fear by eliminating their identified source of the fear.

  44. 44.

    srv

    January 21, 2015 at 5:05 pm

    Gun nut proves CCW doesn’t protect you at Walmart. News at 11.

  45. 45.

    ranchandsyrup

    January 21, 2015 at 5:06 pm

    @trollhattan: Terribly sad but true: I get invited to Sov. California stuff all the time. *SOB* But I never go.

  46. 46.

    Mike in NC

    January 21, 2015 at 5:06 pm

    Isn’t WalMart the biggest gun seller in the country? People must carry concealed weapons in and out all the time. Good reason to shop elsewhere.

  47. 47.

    different-church-lady

    January 21, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    Here’s a better idea: walk away and call the cops.

    Yeah, leave killing innocent people to the professionals!

  48. 48.

    catclub

    January 21, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    OT:
    Just as Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.
    Oil pipelines are the worst means to transport oil, except for all the others.
    How does one deal with this and still read Charlie Pierce?

    http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/The_Pipeline_Saga_Goes_On

    but I still cheer every time he writes Goggle-eyed Homunculus.

  49. 49.

    pluege

    January 21, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    In the end the fact that actual bad guys do not in fact carry neon signs to identify them

    wrong again, they wear hoodies – a sure fire neon sign of a bad guy (for the dimwitted, this is snark)

  50. 50.

    Couldn't Stand the Weather

    January 21, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    I think (haven’t checked) DC and Virginia now have concealed carry. This is gonna start happening around here.

    Remember the fall of 2002 and the snipers? These wingers are always on the lookout for The Other. There are plenty of potential tacklees around here, including me. Gonna have to buy a “Don’t Shoot” tee shirt for my next trip to Home Depot. That, and a Kevlar vest.

  51. 51.

    trollhattan

    January 21, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady:
    My feelings aren’t mixed. If I ever see such a thing I will leave. Maybe later I call the bidnez manager but am not taking time in the meantime. I am leaving. Don’t care if Thomas Keller himself just placed the main course in front of me–I’m out.

  52. 52.

    catclub

    January 21, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    @different-church-lady: IN this case, doing some thing stupid is probably safer for the guy carrying than calling the police the way that guy did in Ohio.

    Modified Swatting.

  53. 53.

    trollhattan

    January 21, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    @ranchandsyrup:
    Lucky duckie!

  54. 54.

    catclub

    January 21, 2015 at 5:11 pm

    @Couldn’t Stand the Weather:

    Remember the fall of 2002 and the snipers?

    Yes I do, and I remain amazed that al Qaeda did not watch and learn.

  55. 55.

    jl

    January 21, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    This thread has omitted mention of certain highly place provocateurs (besides the NRA).

    On the lighter side of these provocateurs, we have Bobby Jindal, who apparently still thinks there are ‘no go’ Muslim controlled zones in the UK and France.

    Bobby Jindal: US Will Have Its Own ‘No-Go Zones’ Unless We Take This Seriously
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bobby-jindal-no-go-zones-america

    Is this guy a nitwit, desperate and transparent operator, or is his mind going to pieces?
    I initially missed the fact that Fox News managed to broadcast complete nonsense about ‘no go’ zones in two different countries on I think two consecutive days.

    But far more expert hands than Jindal’s will go to work soon on the fear mongering. And sadly, Jindal’s weak work will convince many of the weak minded to up their paronoia game

    BTW, TPM blog has a harrowing first person account of life in a Paris ‘no go’ zone today.

  56. 56.

    tsquared2001

    January 21, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: That plan was followed in an Ohio Walmart and didn’t work out too well for John Crawford.

  57. 57.

    Joel

    January 21, 2015 at 5:16 pm

    Question: Could someone legally argue that open-carry constitutes an implicit threat? (Same for poorly concealed carry).

    It’s certainly how I’ve regarded people who open carry weapons.

  58. 58.

    catclub

    January 21, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    @trollhattan: Sov Calif. idiots:

    stand up and say its time for California to go it alone.

    This means the remaining part of the US would have zero treaties to allow some % of the water that flows out of the US and into Sov. Calif, right? Not good planning.

  59. 59.

    Couldn't Stand the Weather

    January 21, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    @catclub:

    Never mind AQ, that idiot in Aurora, Colorado was watching. As were Cliven Bundy and that guy who killed the two cops in New York last month.

  60. 60.

    Iowa Old Lady

    January 21, 2015 at 5:27 pm

    @trollhattan: That’s what I’d do too. What I’m trying inadequately to say is that I feel reluctant sympathy for the vigilante’s alarm. I think that’s a normal person’s reaction. Not jumping the guy, of course.

  61. 61.

    KG

    January 21, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    @Joel: I don’t think the simple act of openly carrying a fire arm could legal be seen as a threat. No more than carrying a sledge hammer could be or walking a dog breed considered dangerous (pits, Dobermans, Rotts, German Shepards, whatever the next scare breed is). I think you need something more.

  62. 62.

    trollhattan

    January 21, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    @KG:
    But what about in an SYG state? We’ve learned in the last couple years the bar for ascertaining a threat to one’s own live is set quite close to ground level.

  63. 63.

    Betty Cracker

    January 21, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    @KG: You’re probably right about the legal angle, but it’s absolutely normal to see a handgun as an implied threat — and more of one than a dog or a hammer. Dogs and hammers don’t exist for the sole purpose of perforating human beings.

  64. 64.

    Mike in NC

    January 21, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    @jl: Having visited Louisiana about 15 years ago, it’s definitely on my list of no-go zones.

  65. 65.

    Cliff in NH

    January 21, 2015 at 5:39 pm

    Another guy killed by paranoid cops:

    http://news.yahoo.com/video-shows-man-shot-jersey-police-raising-hands-150049422.html

  66. 66.

    trollhattan

    January 21, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    @catclub:
    The precious aspect is the morons seem to think the rest of California would automatically put them in charge, because “They done thunk this up their ownselves” I suppose.

    The same California that just returned a 100% Democratic slate to every elected statewide office.

  67. 67.

    Tom Levenson

    January 21, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    @JPL: My work here is done. ;-)

    @Betty Cracker:

    And that’s the fucking problem right there, in addition to the race angle. Nobody should be carrying a gun into a retail outlet. This is not a war zone — or shouldn’t be.

    Yes — of course. My point, not well put. The fetish of the gun makes guns ever more common, which makes some of those without guns feel they need them, and some of those with them way to ready to use them first….and the cycle continues. We are victims of our own (ginned up) fear of actually living in groups of people we don’t all know. Somewhere between the Republican decision to trade their souls on race for access to power back in the ’60s we managed to destroy the concept of society; what we got now is every person for themselves and jackbooted govt., w. nothing allowed in between.

    I despair.

  68. 68.

    MomSense

    January 21, 2015 at 5:47 pm

    Sick of all these wahoo wannabe law enforcement vigilante types.

    Sick of all the fucking guns.

  69. 69.

    gelfling545

    January 21, 2015 at 6:02 pm

    @jl: I suspect he’s just lazy and/or incurious. He hears about “no go” zones somewhere & decided it sounded good & just didn’t bother to find out that there was no such thing.

  70. 70.

    boatboy_srq

    January 21, 2015 at 6:04 pm

    @different-church-lady: Indeed. @CONGRATULATIONS: You’ve seen COPS, yes? You’ve noticed how many episodes are shot with TPD, yes? And you’re going to leave this to the LEOs? Really? FL may not be MO, but the shoot-first-interrogate-later mindset is alive and well there. I’d actually be willing to be persuaded that Foster acted to prevent Daniels’ being summarily shot by LEOs, permit or no – though I admit it’s unlikely.

    @srv: Black gun nut learns that CCW doesn’t protect you anywhere around paranoid white wingnuts would be closer to the truth here.

  71. 71.

    JPL

    January 21, 2015 at 6:05 pm

    OT I listened to the speech that the President game at Boise State, and he had a great line directed towards the republicans. NO is not a plan.
    In a perfect world, the president would go on a Sunday talk show and read the egregious parts of the bill, he is about to veto. Read the bills title also.

  72. 72.

    JGabriel

    January 21, 2015 at 6:06 pm

    “Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen,” McKinnon noted.

    Because events would have gone better if the attacker tackled a murderous psychopath with a gun?

    I’m thinking Foster was pretty fortunate, not un-, that his target was a law-abiding citizen. If the man with a gun hadn’t been a law-abiding citizen, Foster would probably be dead now.

  73. 73.

    Roger Moore

    January 21, 2015 at 6:16 pm

    @Eric U.:

    too bad oil prices are so low, a pool of snark is nearly worthless right now.

    You may serve it with greens, and it’s handy for striking a light.

  74. 74.

    Schlemazel

    January 21, 2015 at 6:21 pm

    @Betty Cracker:
    BUT GUNS MAKE US ALL MORE SAFER!! I know it’s true I hear it all the time. Once everyone from 6 to 106 is packing we will be 100% safe.

  75. 75.

    WereBear

    January 21, 2015 at 6:24 pm

    So a man carries a concealed (sorta) gun into WalMart to get coffee creamer and gets assaulted because of it.

    Just what has the gun done for him? Was he planning one of those Western duels in the DVD aisle?

  76. 76.

    Keith G

    January 21, 2015 at 6:37 pm

    @JPL: The President could, and the President should.
    @Schlemazel: I’ve come to the unfortunate conclusion that proactive logic is not going to solve the gun problem. Unfortunately it seems to me that is going to take a good deal of violence and disorder caused by incidents such as was mentioned in this thread to rein in gun laws.

    I’m thinking that we are going to have to have shootouts in Walmart, and in McDonalds parking lots, and on sidewalks to churches, and at football games at the local high school before a return to common sense spreads wide enough for there to be enough support for basic restraint on the ownership of guns.

    To me it is unfolding like a parallel to the Civil War. There is going to have to be a lot more unsafety, a lot more chaos, a lot more concentrated bloodletting before things get better.

  77. 77.

    Just One More Canuck

    January 21, 2015 at 6:38 pm

    So what does it take to get a concealed carry license in Florida? The standards don’t seem to be very high.

    Maybe the question should be, “How crazy do you have to be to be denied a concealed carry license in Florida?”

  78. 78.

    Howard Beale IV

    January 21, 2015 at 6:48 pm

    Obligatory NRA worshippers Youtube

  79. 79.

    Tommy

    January 21, 2015 at 6:54 pm

    I just don’t get it. My state was the last to have a carry permit. The Supreme Court had to rule on it. As I’ve said time and time again I live in a rural area. Everybody has guns. I have not seen a single person carry around a gun in public, but during deer season I can see deer strapped to the hoods of cars. I don’t know who these people are that think they need to strap a gun to their side to go and get a soda or a lottery ticket. I really don’t

    I have a FOID card. That stands for Firearm Owners Identification. I don’t own any guns and only fired one once. But my father has a lot of guns, and on the uneventful day he dies, I will inherit them.

    Dad is so anal about following the law he wants me to be “legal” so he gets me a FOID card each year. Ponder that for a few seconds ….

  80. 80.

    Another Holocene Human

    January 21, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    Why so coy, Tom? Gun worship was always ever racial, at least within living memory. White guys with guns are “good guys with guns”, black guys with guns are “felons”. It’s been this way since Reconstruction ended and nationwide with the massive migrations of white and Black southerners. (Honorable mention to the “bad Indian” with a gun.)

    NRA newsletters talked about the coming race war. War otaku magazines shade into white supremacist stroke lit. So get real, Tom. The racial aspect is the fucking point.

  81. 81.

    Another Holocene Human

    January 21, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    @Just One More Canuck: Nope, just a felon … count on never ever getting your rights restored. It’s a twofer, felons can’t vote either. Fortunately the “just us” system ensures that Blacks and whites face wildly different penalties under law–yeah, even the white trash they make examples of–so there’s a differential felon creation rate. I mean fortunately if you’re a white supremacist. #sarcasm

    #ineedadrink

  82. 82.

    Tommy

    January 21, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    @Keith G: It is fucked up. I suggest a very basic thing. Passing a safety course every few years. Clearly the gun nuts and NRA would not let that pass. I don’t know anything about guns so those people I know that do are anal about safety. Wouldn’t ever hand me a gun. I’ve asked to go hunting with them and they mock me. Take a gun safety class dude. Learn to use a gun and then we can talk.

    I heard a person say something profound in a comment on a site the other day. He said he had a gun. It was in a biometrics safe, only could be opened with his fingerprint. He said he hoped his daughter never found that safe. But if she did he’d say that box “was a soul taking box, it will take your ability to listen to Frozen, play, everything.” He said he figured that would buy him a year or two to explain guns to her.

  83. 83.

    Another Holocene Human

    January 21, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    Note the laws in many areas where the county sheriff (I mean what now?) basically controls if you can get a gun permit or a concealed carry permit. This opens the door to racial discrimination under color of law with little hope to be challenged since, again, county sheriff.

  84. 84.

    Another Holocene Human

    January 21, 2015 at 7:13 pm

    @Tommy: My midwestern relatives were the same way. My deceased grandfather loved to hunt and fish, it was sport although he ate what he caught. Probably during the Depression it was diet supplemental. Rural people needed guns because of wildlife or livestock that got loose and was a danger or to shoot squirrels, rabbits, birds for food. They never fetishized guns. A gun was a tool. One that was treated with respect, just like a table saw or a lawnmower. This whole ammosexual thing shocked and disgusted them. But the world has changed, hasn’t it?

  85. 85.

    Another Holocene Human

    January 21, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    @JGabriel: Tells you everything about the psychopathology of the assailant that he sees an older Black due packing and rather than thinking “mildly yet rationally paranoid old guy” see “THUG WITH A PIECE FIXING TO JACK WALLY WORLD! AROOOGAH! AROOOGAH!”

    I, erm, happen to know a number of Black people around here who keep concealed weapons, not always legally (gun was inherited, what the government doesn’t know about won’t hurt them), because it’s the South and there are a lot of people you might encounter on a lonely country road who might want to take your life, even, and especially, wearing a badge.

    Shit, grandpa PROBABLY keeps the gun in the car for protection and put it in his jacket because he was going into Walmart and was paranoid about somebody breaking into his car while he was in the store, NOT because he expected to be assaulted in the Walmart. Clearly he did NOT expect to be assaulted in the Walmart because he was utterly taken by surprise when Mr. Person of Walmart Ambassador Extraordinaire tackled and choked his ass.

  86. 86.

    Another Holocene Human

    January 21, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    Why would you try to stick up the Walmart (the land of a thousand cameras) when it’s so much easier to rob walmart with some avery labels and an inkjet printer? Just saying.

  87. 87.

    Cpl Cam

    January 21, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: John Crawford would disagree. Maybe that’s part of the problem. Can’t call the cops, they just make things worse.

  88. 88.

    JPL

    January 21, 2015 at 7:25 pm

    @Keith G: If only he would.

  89. 89.

    Tommy

    January 21, 2015 at 7:28 pm

    @Another Holocene Human: In grad school in the late 80s my best friend was from Vermont. His girlfriend from Midland, TX. Father a top level executive at Exxon. He seemed to travel the world killing animals. I often ate them. Wild game was a large part of my diet because what he gave was free and I was dirt poor. I don’t think people get that.

  90. 90.

    Gravenstone

    January 21, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    @trollhattan: You know what they used to call “people’s censures”? Elections.

  91. 91.

    Roger Moore

    January 21, 2015 at 7:51 pm

    @Gravenstone:
    The problem is that the elections haven’t been going their way recently, especially in California.

  92. 92.

    Joseph

    January 21, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Sovereign California is supporting a ban on the federal deportation of illegals from California. And although they say they’re against Obama’s free junior college plan, they (say) they are for free universal college education in California like the state had prior to Reagan, who they openly criticize. I don’t know. Doesn’t seem like its a right-wing group like your comment implies. California will do what California will do.

  93. 93.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    January 21, 2015 at 10:01 pm

    Literally every single poster on this thread missed my point.

    If you see a guy toting a piece into a place that you’re going in (or not) don’t fucking tackle him! He’ll probably just shoot your dumb ass. Jesus Fucking Bugshit Christ, what is so hard to understand about that?

    My preferred course of action would be to call the cops, rather than tackle a guy and take a .357 slug to my head.

    What part about that is a “bad idea”? Ready for an explanation.

  94. 94.

    Steve from Antioch

    January 21, 2015 at 10:34 pm

    Do you have a google alert set for “gun” or “Walmart”?

    It’s a bit odd to me that crimes, including “gun crime” has been decreasing for decades yet people are pissing their pants about crime/guns/shootings/etc. more than ever.

  95. 95.

    Just One More Canuck

    January 21, 2015 at 10:35 pm

    @Another Holocene Human: that’s seriously messed up – why does anyone need to carry a gun – concealed or not – is beyond me

  96. 96.

    burnspbesq

    January 21, 2015 at 10:47 pm

    What could possibly go wrong when self selected vigilantes assaulting armed strangers in public spaces?

    Verb tenses, for one thing.

  97. 97.

    burnspbesq

    January 21, 2015 at 10:50 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Jeebus H. Keerist on a Segway, I can’t tell whether Sovereign California is Crackpot Left, Crackpot Right, or a combination of the two. But they are definitely Crackpot Something.

  98. 98.

    burnspbesq

    January 21, 2015 at 10:58 pm

    @Keith G:

    Somebody posted a link to my Facebook page from one of the Portland, OR TV stations. Last weekend, a shot fired outside a church ended up nearly hitting a baby in its crib 25 blocks from where the shot was fired. The entire word seems to be treating it as NBD.

    For the foreseeable future, the ammosexuals have won. It’s hard to imagine any set of events or circumstances that could change it.

  99. 99.

    mclaren

    January 22, 2015 at 12:26 am

    (a) what kind of asshole do you have to be to decide that you want to walk around looking for folks to bash based on whether they look hinky to you?

    An American.

    http://www.dhs.gov/if-you-see-something-say-something%E2%84%A2

  100. 100.

    mclaren

    January 22, 2015 at 12:28 am

    @Keith G:

    I’m thinking that we are going to have to have shootouts in Walmart, and in McDonalds parking lots, and on sidewalks to churches, and at football games…

    ESPN will broadcast them. Ratings will be huge.

    It’s a win-win for the sports fans, the broadcasters, and the ammosexuals.

  101. 101.

    Arclite

    January 22, 2015 at 2:30 am

    Let’s be thankful that Mr. Foster didn’t call the police and report he saw a man with a gun in Walmart. Because we all know how that turns out.

  102. 102.

    Matt

    January 22, 2015 at 9:05 am

    what kind of asshole do you have to be to decide that you want to walk around looking for folks to bash based on whether they look hinky to you?

    THERE’S ONE IN THE SPOTLIGHT, HE DON’T LOOK RIGHT TO ME

    GET HIM UP AGAINST THE WALL

  103. 103.

    Paul in KY

    January 22, 2015 at 9:36 am

    They actually referred to them as ‘vigilantes’?! That’s usually an epithet. Certainly not a descriptive word for a valued profession/duty.

    Jeezus.

  104. 104.

    wrb

    January 22, 2015 at 4:14 pm

    I think every citizen should tackle everyone seen carrying a gun and bash their head on the ground for as long as is required to get the thing to drop out out of their limp hand.

    It is just :stand your ground theory” Gun packers menace au and the pack in order to menace us. It is our right to stand our ground and take them down.

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