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Bibi

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We haven’t had a thread to discuss Secretary of State John Boehner’s Netanyahu invite, but it’s pretty clear to me that the real idiot in the room when this thing goes down will be Bibi. To start with, he’s not going to see Obama or Kerry. US officials are telling the Israeli press stuff like this:

“Senior American official” as quoted by Haaretz: “We thought we’ve seen everything. But Bibi managed to surprise even us. There are things you simply don’t do. He spat in our face publicly and that’s no way to behave. Netanyahu ought to remember that President Obama has a year and a half left to his presidency, and that there will be a price.”

What’s the win for Netanyahu here? Does Bibi think that Mitt Romney is going to be President (again)? Does he think that he’ll win a tight election by pissing off Israel’s prime benefactor? Maybe there’s some Israel-specific reason why this makes sense, but I sure don’t get it.

Boehner’s win here is obvious: he gets a few days of attention from the DC Press Corpse and some credit from the teaturd caucus for a symbolic fuck you to Obama.  It just shows how weak he is that this wholly symbolic gesture counts as a “win”, but at least he’s getting something out of it. I don’t see what Bibi gets.

Reader Interactions

157Comments

  1. 1.

    Sherparick

    He is still hoping to get his U.S. v. Iran war. Further, as the American Sniper has all the Chickenhawks baying for a new war and chance to slaughter more “savages” through their chosen avatars in in the U.S. military.

  2. 2.

    bbleh

    I’m not a close observer of Israeli politics, but I suspect a few things:
    — Netanyahu is not a widely popular leader, nor a slam-dunk for the election. He’s in a position similar to a Republican presidential candidate in a year where the contest is close.
    — His coalition includes the “angry righteous,” analogous to the US “Tea Party.” Voters like that respond well to confrontational drama.
    The conclusion is that he benefits from this by energizing his core supporters and — as with any leader — from a “rally ’round the flag” effect among voters “on the fence.”

  3. 3.

    lol

    Desperate move to appease the right-wing nutjobs in Israel leading up to the elections but he’s underestimating how much it’s going to hurt him with moderates.

    The Israeli ambassador to the US is a former Republican operative so I suspect he might have been led to believe a “Fuck You Obama” would play really well on both sides.

  4. 4.

    Iowa Old Lady

    I hope there is payback because this infuriates me. No one here elected Bibi to run any part of our foreign policy.

    And screw Boehner for doing this. Apparently he prefers to score a political win than avert a war.

  8. 8.

    humanoid.panda

    Bibi’s big problem is that most of his advisors are Jewish Republicans, of the sort that is confused that the deluded Jewish masses are just minutes shy of crossing over to the GOP. The idea that even Democrats who are Jewish and/or pro-Israeli see Barack HUSSEIN Obama as both their President and party leader and will not insult him in public is totally foreign to that crowd.

    It’s either that or he somehow persuaded himself that just like Israeli Prime Ministers, American Presidents can be brought down if they don’t have parliamentary majority.

  9. 9.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Boner and Bibi are birds of a feather: men who nominally lead a group of rabid racist scum. The fact that Israelis in the IDF and Mossad have communicated quite plainly that the Iran Sanctions bandwagon in the US is going to fuck up the negotiations with Iran indicates that Bibi’s back is exposed.

  12. 12.

    dedc79

    On the Israeli side, there are two phases to consider. One is the election itself – and there polling shows that his party is at serious risk of coming in second. So that probably speaks to some of the desperation that would motivate a decision like this – he may feel like he has to do something big to retake the lead. The second phase is the effort to pull together a coalition after the election. Likkud could lose the Labor bloc and still end up with Netanyahu back as PM if he can bring enough of the other parties into his coalition. My sense is that he thinks (misguidedly) that this will help him pull together a winning coalition of right-wing parties.

    One other interesting thing to mention that as unprecedented a move as this was, it’s also gotta be pretty unprecedented for Mossad to respond as they have:

    the spy agency’s officers have expressed their opposition to new legislation being proposed in the US Senate, in direct contradiction of the prime minister’s position, who will be travelling to Washington in February to address the Congress on his support for a bill threatening Iran with a new round of sanctions.

  13. 13.

    Tom Levenson

    I’m thinking this is Bibi’s analogue to McCain’s “I’m going to shut my campaign down!” moment — a desperate, unthought gesture in the midst of a campaign that is not playing well at all in Israel. Backfire, IOW.

  14. 14.

    humanoid.panda

    @bbleh: I think there is some truth to that theory. However, last time Bibi tried this shtick, in 99, he failed miserably, and lost the election. The problem is that for some mysterious reason, Bill Jefferson Clinton was very popular in Israel, while Barak HUSSEIN Obama isn’t so much.

  17. 17.

    NCSteve

    @MattF: Ditto Boehner and the rest of his cohorts.

    I honestly think they think this is going to be the wedge issue that finally makes American Jews sever their links with the Democratic Party and join the GOP, kind of like the way they played “Red Rover” with the segregationists in the 70’s.

    Which is, of course, asinine. If they really want to force American Jews to choose between being liberals and the maximalist Likudnik/AIPAC/Lieberman position, have at it guys, because as best I can tell, they’re just not that into you.

  18. 18.

    Schlemazel

    @bbleh:
    About as plausible explanation as I have seen so far. It also seems to me that the Beeb’s sense of self is highly over-inflated. He actually thought he could tip the US election in ’12 and have the Marquis Du Mittens in his debt. Thank Pasta that didn’t happen or we would be bombing our way to Tehran as we speak. My guess he lives in a tight bubble & believes the BS being shoveled his way American ‘Curveballs’. There should have been a price to pay for ’12 with the caveat that if he behaved himself it would be lessened.

    EDIT: @dedc79: also a pretty good extension of this line of thinking.

  20. 20.

    rumpole

    –maybe a tactical decision that both right wing R donors and certain dominionist elements of the R base will support any military adventure in the MEast, without reservation. What’s to lose? Plus perhaps he can hit up some US folks who think the way he does for more donations.

    –I cannot imagine how the right wing would have reacted if Pelosi had pulled an analogous stunt when Bush was president.

  23. 23.

    Tommy

    I get worried to post what I will about to say. I’ve gotten run out of a forum for posting this.

    The Jews I know. I know a few of them if I am not Jewish.

    They all want a dual state solution. Often embarrassed by their nation. I recall as a young adult I didn’t have any family in DC. This family just brought me into their home. Jewish family. They treated me like their own.

    But I also learned from them, wife of the guy was a Palestine. Muslim. Yeah that happened.

  24. 24.

    scav

    Didn’t Bibi just play something of the same tune with his off-on again showing up at the world leaders photo-op near the jesuis Charlie march? That was generally seen as a response to internal campaigning pressures. Only thing funnier at that event was watching the shennanigans of M. Sarkozy trying to flaunt himself constently.

  25. 25.

    samiam

    Blogger ((I use that term loosely) markymux writes a blog post about Bibi visiting and snubbing Obama and blogger markymux just doesn’t understand what Bibi gets out of it.

    Poor poor “Palin is going to run for prez.” markymux. Trapped in a world he cannot understand.

  27. 27.

    dedc79

    @trollhattan: I can’t say I’ve been following that closely, but I did see a story on Haaretz that was repeated on TPM, that the latest polls show likkud trailing by a bit.

    Interestingly (and unfortunately), Likkud also lost the last election, but they were able to piece together a majority coalition after the left/center parties failed to do so.

  28. 28.

    Anya

    @Tom Levenson: I agree with you. It shows Netanyahu’s desperation. When you add to the mix the way he invited himself to the Paris rally and then elbowed his way to the frontline, I don’t think this will play well with the public. It shows a desperate and a shameless leader who’s not popular with any international leaders, except insane Republicans. Even if the election is close, I don’t see him forming the next government. His opponents would have a credible argument — Netanyahu is unpopular with all world leaders, he is bad for Isreal’s interests.

  30. 30.

    KG

    @NCSteve: I think for most voters foreign policy comes down to “are we going to war (again)?” There are some exceptions, Cuban Americans care about Cuba, Persians care about Iran, Jewish voters care about Israel. Recent immigrants care about their home country/region. But for the most part in 2015, none of those groups are going to let their feelings about the other country drive their politics on everything

  34. 34.

    scav

    @Ruckus: “Nother Nice thing about bakery storage, one can pop them back in a bit so they warm up to being fully half baked as well. Bring ’em up to regulation pressure.

  35. 35.

    KG

    @rumpole: if Pelosi did something like this during the Bush Administration, Republicans would have demanded that she (and every other Democrat in both houses of congress) resign immediately. They’d also want her censured and/or impeached. Definitely removed from the Speakership

  39. 39.

    humanoid.panda

    @schrodinger’s cat: Just like “Russian” Russians, Jewish Russians pride themselves on being racist assholes, as a weird reaction to the official anti-racist line from the Communist period. However, most ethnic hatred in Israel is not oriented outwards, but is inter-Jewish.

    There are three major groups: Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, and Russian Jews. Sephardic Jews think that Ashkenazi Jews are arab-loving, condescending, rich assholes (basically, pointy-headed liberals) and that Russians are all criminal and whores who are not even Jewish. Russians agree with the Sephardic Jews on the Ashkenazi, but think the Sephardic Jews are a bunch of primitives who should return to the jungle. Ashkenazi Jews agree with the Sephardic Jews on Russianss being criminals and whores, and also think they are fascists. They also think that the Sephardics are a bunch of yahoos who want to drive Israel to the middle ages.

    Overlaying all this is the deep hatred between the ultra-orthodox and the rest of the country, as well as the deep divide among the orthodox between the messianic Zionist camp, the Ashkenazi ultra-orthodox people who only care about their community and the state funds it receives, and the Sephardic ultra-orthodox who actually want to remake the country in their image.
    Additionally, in the last five years or so, income inequality became a major issue ,bringing together people from all three camps on specific issues, sometimes.

    Bibi’s genius was in his ability to hold together a coalition based on elements who vehemently dislike each other, on a common platform of hatred to the “Left” (read: pointy headed liberals). That ability is slipping, because with all his bluster, he didn’t actually accomplish anything in terms of making Israel more secure, and because the center-left is more and more focused on bread and butter issues- his great weakness.

    You can’t understand Israeli politics if you only think about foreign policy, Palestinians and Iran, and ignore domestic factors.

  42. 42.

    humanoid.panda

    @scav: Yes. Initially, he respected the French request not to show up due to the difficulty of giving him proper security. Then, he learned that his two major competitors on the Right are going, and decided to join, leading to a series of security mishaps. That didn’t go over well in the Israeli media.

  44. 44.

    catclub

    @KG: Yep. Dick Cheney would be on MTP growling that this was dangerous and we live in daaaangerous times. Everybody would shiver in fear.

  45. 45.

    chopper

    Also, bibi’s big selling point with Israeli voters has always been his western connections and chumminess with American pols. He’s doing this as a big PR stunt to keep his campaign alive.

  47. 47.

    1weirdTrick

    I’ll take ‘Overconfident Narcissist for 100, Alex’. Maybe epistemic closure isn’t solely the province of the American branch conservatism?

    Did anybody catch yesterday’s morning NPR interview with the head of the CEO of Dragoman Partners who’s served as a “chief advisor” to 3 heads of Central Command from 2005-2010. Ali Khadery? Who was pimping any agreement w/Iran will lead to “a mushroom cloud, and this isn’t hyperbole, it’s extrapolation of present trends”? http://www.thetakeaway.org/story/overshadowing-us-iran-takes-lead-fight-against-isis/

    Is he as nutty and neo-conservative as he sounds?

  49. 49.

    Tommy

    @KG: Yes. I have not served and I feel guilty about it. My families business is war. I am the only male that has not served in many generations. We fight. What I find strange and so positive is my cousins and others are pissed off. Saying they don’t want to fight anymore. My uncle that flies F-18s asked me how he could protest war. He was done.

  51. 51.

    Cacti

    Per the latest Jerusalem Post Poll:

    60% of Israeli voters want Bibi gone.

    64% think the socioeconomic situation has declined under his government.

    58% think the security situation has deteriorated.

    Elections are on March 17.

  54. 54.

    brantl

    Bibi gets to strut and pretend to be of vital importance to the entire world. Just like a turd in a punchbowl is vital to the party whose punchbowl within which it has been placed. That’s the best analogy I have.

  56. 56.

    Chris

    @Sherparick:

    He is still hoping to get his U.S. v. Iran war.

    Or, at least, to sink the negotiations.

    He’s not necessarily wrong. If this becomes a big issue, I think most of the American public is simply going to see this in terms of “be good to Iran and piss off Israel” versus “be good to Israel and piss off Iran,” in which case the overwhelming majority will take the second option. Support for Israel might not extend to the point where we’ll invade Iran for them (we’re tired of war), but maintaining sanctions for them is another story. It costs the American public nothing, has support from a loud and rabid part of the public, and the rest of the public mostly doesn’t care.

  58. 58.

    Felonius Monk

    @schrodinger’s cat: Sheldon Silver’s arrest is a BFD!
    Silver is probably the most powerful Democrat in New York State next to Cuomo. In fact, he may be more powerful. New York State is pretty much ruled by Three-Men-In-A-Room; he’s one of the three. And has been so for more than 20 years. He is the longest serving Speaker of the NYS Assembly.

    If these charges stick and he finds it necessary to deal for leniency, there could be great upheaval in NYS government because he knows where the bodies are buried.

    Not good for the Democrats in general, but it will be interesting to see the fallout, if any.

    I’m sure Mistermix will have lots to say on this topic. I’m looking forward to that.

  59. 59.

    Chris

    @Tommy:

    They all want a dual state solution.

    The American Jews I know are all over the map (unlike the fundiegelicals, who are all in the tank for Likud).

    I’ll just point out that wanting a two-state solution in theory is one thing, being willing to recognize that Israel shares any of the responsibility at all for not bringing it about is another. There’s a non trivial number of people in the “oh, of course I want a two-state solution, but the only reason we don’t have one is because the Palestinians are so damn unreasonable and bloodthirsty and antisemetic, and if only they’d stop all terrorism there would be a two-state solution. We will have peace when Arabs love their children more than they hate Jews. Why don’t people understand that? Why is everybody so mean to poor Israel, which never does anything except in self-defense as a last resort and with a heavy heart?” school of thought.

  61. 61.

    gratuitous

    I just want to be sure this isn’t going to contribute to the deficit. Who’s paying for Mr. Netanyahu’s plane ticket into Reagan National? And his cab ride to the Capitol? Will there be offsetting cuts to, say, the House Speaker’s budget to pay for this visit?

    We all know just how careful Republicans like to present themselves on matters financial and budgetary. How do the expenses pencil out?

  62. 62.

    sharl

    @ruemara:

    unfortunately, having dealt with Russian Jews and Israeli Jews in good old NYC’s diamond district, they are not very nice to people who look like me.

    Edited for any new folks visiting here. Most of us who’ve been here awhile already know exactly what you mean…

  63. 63.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Tommy: I have to admit that I’m offended by your apparent view of Jews as a monolithic group.

    I recall as a young adult I didn’t have any family in DC. This family just brought me into their home. Jewish family. They treated me like their own.

    WTF does this even mean? Would you write
    I recall as a young adult I didn’t have any family in DC. This family just brought me into their home. Methodist family. They treated me like their own.?

    Jewish folks are not some kind of “other” in the US; they are people who are not Christian (or Muslim or Hindu or Zoroastrian).

    The Jews I know. I know a few of them if I am not Jewish.

    They all want a dual state solution. Often embarrassed by their nation.

    Again, WTF dude? Are you talking about Israelis, or Jewish Americans? If it’s the latter they are embarrassed by the US ( a position I often share). If the are American Jews, “their nation” is not Israel. If they are Israelis, then your point – as I understand it – is correctly stated. Many Israelis support a two state solution; many do not. Many American Jewish folks of my acquaintance favor a two state solution; some do not. Of the American Muslims of my acquaintance, most support a two state solution, and the Muslims from the Levant my acquaintance, all of them with whom I’ve discussed it support a two state solution. I’ve not talked with any Algerian or other NA Muslims about it, although I do know people.

    Bonus fact – all the redheads of my acquaintance support a two state solution. Do you see my point? People are individuals.

  64. 64.

    Chris

    @humanoid.panda:

    There are three major groups: Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, and Russian Jews. Sephardic Jews think that Ashkenazi Jews are arab-loving, condescending, rich assholes (basically, pointy-headed liberals) and that Russians are all criminal and whores who are not even Jewish. Russians agree with the Sephardic Jews on the Ashkenazi, but think the Sephardic Jews are a bunch of primitives who should return to the jungle. Ashkenazi Jews agree with the Sephardic Jews on Russianss being criminals and whores, and also think they are fascists. They also think that the Sephardics are a bunch of yahoos who want to drive Israel to the middle ages.

    That’s funny… It sounds a lot like the old (nineteenth and early twentieth century) American politics. With Ashkenazi as Northern WASP, Sephardic as Southern WASP, Russian as Northern non-WASP immigrants (the Catholics and the Jews).

  66. 66.

    Southern Beale

    This is OT but does anyone remember the source of a graphic showing the number of U.S. recessions (I think it was recessions, might have been stock market crashes) in the past 150 years? It showed how the volatility of the economy has really escalated in the last 30 years …

    Am I just making that up or does that resonate with anyone? Would like to see it again …

  67. 67.

    ET

    I am no Israel watcher but I have a hard time thinking the helps at home. But then I don’t think it hurts him either. I don’t think it helps/hurts with their upcoming election because while I don’t think he is popular I don’t seem him being defeated.

    I think the is about 1 – sticking to to Obama who he hates because Obama isn’t as fawning as other US politicians are over him/Israel and 2- speaking to his base in the US – congressional Republicans.

    Though the history of US/Israel relations the US government has been very accommodating to whatever Israel wants. And while there hasn’t been much it hasn’t gotten – even under Obama – the tone is different and this is why I think Bibi hates and has no respect for Obama. Bibi thinks he is superior and should get his way in everything – the lack of fawning may not have him worried but I do think it annoys him. Speaking in front of Congress makes him feel like he is getting something over on Obama – even if I don’t think the president cares all that much.

    As for Congressional Republicans they too think this somehow a hit against the present as well as a way to garner some press attention. Bibi is their president and he is speaking to them and they will follow.

  71. 71.

    humanoid.panda

    @Cervantes: That was a bad way of putting it. What I meant is that Israeli electoral behavior is determined by inter-group rivalries, and not necessarily by disagreements about Palestinians.

  73. 73.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Southern Beale: The Mister Potters in the US have been yukking it up over the past 30 years, which got them over the down of a non-panicky economic model that didn’t play to their greed.

  74. 74.

    Chris

    @ET:

    Though the history of US/Israel relations the US government has been very accommodating to whatever Israel wants. And while there hasn’t been much it hasn’t gotten – even under Obama – the tone is different and this is why I think Bibi hates and has no respect for Obama. Bibi thinks he is superior and should get his way in everything – the lack of fawning may not have him worried but I do think it annoys him. Speaking in front of Congress makes him feel like he is getting something over on Obama – even if I don’t think the president cares all that much.

    I don’t think it’s tone so much as the fact that Israeli leaders have gotten so used to getting everything they want and nothing but fawning adoration from the U.S. government that they now jump at the slightest hint of something not being exactly the way they want it. Even if it’s nothing but a politician’s rivals pointing at him and whispering in Bibi’s ear “you know he’s anti-Israel, right?”

    (So, same as the NRA, Wall Street and various other conservative interest groups).

  76. 76.

    Doctor Science

    The reason Bibi is coming seems quite simple to me: elections cost money.

    More than 90% of the Israeli prime minister’s campaign money comes from the United States, according to records published by Israel’s State Comptroller Office.

    He’s doing what any American politician does, fund-raising.

  78. 78.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Chris: In a discussion last week about Bibi’s attitude, my comment was that not only is Israel the de facto 51st state, the US is in an abusive relationship with the right wing of Israel.

  79. 79.

    Hawes

    I’d really like to see some narrowly focused sanctions pass the UN without an American veto. Find some symbolic good to target and allow it to pass.

    The warning shot across Israel’s bow could fundamentally change Israeli politics.

  80. 80.

    Felonius Monk

    @Cervantes: You are correct. I was projecting, without thinking. If Silver completes his present term, then, I believe, he will have been Speaker as long as Heck. The big question is whether Silver will resign or be forced to at least give up the speakership.

  81. 81.

    ruemara

    @sharl: yes, correction appreciated.

    And thanks to human.panda up top for that summation of the internal hates. It’s very…. disappointing.

  82. 82.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @ruemara: Things are complicated, when you have millions of individuals with different views on many things, sometimes in conflict with one another.

    Which is why libertarianism is just so much fucking bunk.

  85. 85.

    Benw

    @Villago Delenda Est: yeah I was thinking the same thing. Plus those two are just grade-A assholes who “govern” by grabbing what they can and smashing the rest and that Obama is an even halfway decent human being whose stated goals are to help people drives them insane. They hate him.

  86. 86.

    Archon

    We have zero military leverage over Iran. A war that involved an American or Israeli first strike would legitimize mullah propaganda and unite the Iranian populace against us. We also have no feasible way to defeat Iran and completely shut down their nuclear program short of measures that would be extremely unpopular in the U.S and around the world.

    Iran knows this, Obama knows this, and I assume Bibi does too (I can’t speak to Republicans because I’d have a better chance understanding the mindset of an alien race on the other side of the galaxy than I do Republicans). So Bibi’s play must be for domestic political reasons because anyone with a strategic level of thinking beyond the board game risk knows a war with Iran ain’t happening and putting maximal economic pressure on Iran is the ONLY way to deter them from building a bomb.

  88. 88.

    Jay C

    @schrodinger’s cat: @Felonius Monk:

    I think another reason for the Times promoting the Sheldon Silver scandal into a front-page BFD is the (seemingly) sudden inflation in the scale of Silver’s alleged graft. IIRC, the main thing they had originally been onto him for was some fairly penny-ante kickback scheme from some obscure Lower East Side real-estate lawyers: now the Feds are apparently claiming his grift is on the scale of “millions” – which is probably more likely, given Silver’s lengthy tenure – making it a Bigger FD.

    Oh, and Sheldon Silver getting busted may be ” not good news for Democrats”, but I wouldn’t imagine that Albany Republicans are jumping into gloat mode too quickly, either: the aboveground septic tank that is the New York State Legislature is most definitely a bipartisan graft mill: there’s plenty of dirt left to be excavated, I’m sure…

  89. 89.

    humanoid.panda

    @Villago Delenda Est: One of the most interesting things about the recent elections is that Labor has 6 women, nearly all young, secular, social-democratic and without military background, in its top 10 spots. That never happened before.

  92. 92.

    Southern Beale

    @ET:

    Thanks. I’m remembering seeing a graphic that showed the last 30 years being a real roller coaster, like a big dip every 5 years or so and a lot of stability before that … and yes FDR changing the banking laws was a big reason for the stability …

  93. 93.

    Lurking Canadian

    I must play my ignorant foreigner card. Why is this such a big deal? Is Congress not allowed to invite whomever they want to listen to? Is it just something that is Not Done to have a guest speak to Congress but not meet the president?

  95. 95.

    Amir Khalid

    @Doctor Science:
    I know that foreigners can’t donate to campaigns in America. Obama had to return his aunt Zeitun’s contribution in 2008. I take it, then, there is no law to forbid Americans from making such donations abroad?

  98. 98.

    humanoid.panda

    @Lurking Canadian: Basically, there are 3 issues at stake here. Formally, it is customary for foreign leaders to coordinate their visit with WH before talking to Congressional leaders. Substantially, the issue here is that Bibi is basically appearing to whip votes for a legislation the WH opposes, and that’s simply something that was inconceivable even 10 years ago. Finally, there is also the small matter of Boehner blatantly interfering in Israeli elections.

  99. 99.

    Benw

    @Tommy: I’ll join you in generalizing based on a small anecdotal sample of a group of which I am not a member. :) Anyway the younger Jewish people I know are mostly liberal, favor dual state, and see Palestinians as human beings; the older ones, really one couple who did lose close family in the Holocaust and during the Settlement years, would wipe every single Palestinian off the map today. So maybe it’s an age thing.

  100. 100.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Lurking Canadian:

    Congress can invite their own guests, but it’s a breach of protocol for them to invite another country’s head of state or head of government. Those invitations are normally issued by our own head of state/government, the president.

  102. 102.

    Liquid

    Wait, didn’t King Abdullah just die or did I miss something?

    eta: Oh and that Fawlty Towers “cloth eared bint” insult suddenly makes sense.

  103. 103.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    Apropos to the protocol question, I have a fun book called “K Blows Top!” about Nikita Khruschev’s visit to the US in the 1950s. One of the issues was whether he should be treated as a Head of State when nominally he was a mere Head of Government. Eventually, they decided to treat him as a Head of State so it didn’t look like they were trying to insult him.

  104. 104.

    ET

    @Chris: Fair point and I do agree. It does seem like this speaking before Congress thing smacks of a tantrum. On both sides.

  105. 105.

    dedc79

    @Liquid: He did. Two of the best lines from the NY Times obituary:

    In 2008, he convened a meeting of world religious leaders to promote tolerance, but held it in Madrid rather than Saudi Arabia, where the public practice of religions other than Islam is outlawed.

    and

    He was described as ascetic, or as ascetic as someone in the habit of renting out entire hotels could be.

  106. 106.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I’m not sure why Bibi would do this. It won’t play in either Israel or the US. It’s just too weird a move. The fund raising idea might make sense, but surely he hasn’t had to do that before.

    Politically, the shit is hitting the fan for him and the Likud. This election is happening because his coalition partners said they’ve had enough with his genocidal take on the Palestinian issue. A lot of them hate the Palestinians, but Netenyahu created a war out of nothing, and Israeli sons are dying in it. The coalition was already balanced on a pin. The four biggest parties besides Likud said they’d support any of each other’s candidates if it kicked Likud out of power, so he’s really got to scramble to hold on, here.

    Israel is facing a cultural crisis very, very similar to the US’s. It has major racism issues, it’s getting more secular by the day, and at the same time the orthodox are getting more extreme by the day. The ultra-orthodox have political power way out of line with their numbers, much like the Teabaggers and for similar reasons. The Israeli government caters to them, giving them lots of special rights that the rest of the country resents. The ultra-orthodox control who is defined as ‘Jewish’, and the rest of the country resents that. Similarly, everyone but the ultra-orthodox would at least like to pay lip service to seeking peaceful resolution of the Palestinian conflict, although @Chris has nailed ‘lip service’ pretty well.

    If Netenyahu loses to a center-left coalition, a lot will change in Israel. Foreign policy (including towards Palestine) will moderate some, but the big changes will be internal issues of the power of religion in Israel. Stuff we won’t see. The current war is the straw that’s breaking the camel’s back (even the Mossad thinks Netenyahu’s nuts, and that plays there), but just like in the US, these are symptoms of a demographic timer ticking over.

    In conclusion, fuck if I know how Bibi thinks this helps him, but the political situation is crazy in Israel, so who knows?

  107. 107.

    PIGL

    @Liquid: yes, and apparently we are all supposed to have major sadz. My stars, even if he were my grandfather, his 90yrs would quell my tears. Never mind that he was the absolute head of a corrupt dynasty overseeing a rabidly patriarchal theocracy with the 1000s of lashes and the beheadings and the lavish funding of 18th century hyper-islamic cults spreading joy and love throughout the world. I hope his hell is extra roasty.

  108. 108.

    kc

    Netanyahu ought to remember that President Obama has a year and a half left to his presidency, and that there will be a price.

    I sure hope so. I’m kind of sick of the US’s being Israel’s big dumb buddy.

  109. 109.

    kindness

    I’m more interested in how this effects continued government.

    In the past the Federal Government and it’s parts (Congress, the Judiciary & the Executive branch) had many genteel unwritten rules. Republicans in Congress since Clinton have trampled many of those rules. Democrats being the spineless wonders they are have ignored that and have found themselves now in the minority in both Congressional houses and have only the presidency to cling to any level of importance. I suspect (really hope as Democrats seem to think spinelessness is a virtue, which I don’t get at all) maybe in the next 2 years this Congress may finally shake them out of their fear of offending their enemies. I hope so.

    Continuing trying to find silver linings in bad clouds.

  110. 110.

    trollhattan

    @dedc79:
    Ah, so there’s at least an opportunity. From the bleachers it seems as though the leadership has been screwed up ever since Rabin was assassinated (a looong time ago, now). Thanks for the followup.

  111. 111.

    Liquid

    I remember reading some article about the extent of that family. It was something like 56 sons minus daughters or some such.

  112. 112.

    Peale

    @Tommy: Unfortunately, even if the majority of Israeli Jews want a dual state solution, it is no longer going to happen. They have elected repeatedly a group of leaders who is opposed to it. So why, if they don’t support it, do they keep electing people who build settlements in ways that make a Palestinian state impossible?

    You can’t look at our country either and pretend that we haven’t been electing people who run our foreign policy in very messed up ways. It really doesn’t matter what people want if the elite hand the decisions over to Neo-Cons or Neo-Cons Lite at every opportunity. It have a feeling that is what happens in Israel, too. Hardliners are just considered to be “realists” so they are given deference in all decisions.

  113. 113.

    sparrow

    @Southern Beale: Yes, it happens right after deregulations. We’re basically reliving the period around the 1890s. Now it’s just “oh markets go up and down and crash, nothing to be done about it” except that after the great depression we managed to avoid a crash for a REALLY LONG TIME, gee, I wonder what changed in the last 30 years…

  118. 118.

    trollhattan

    @humanoid.panda:
    Wow. Didn’t understand a single syllable of course, but can tell she really brought the wood nevertheless (didn’t see her so much as glance at any notes). I just might have a new second-favorite redhead.

  120. 120.

    sparrow

    @schrodinger’s cat: Yeah, it’s always the females that have to be all starry-eyed and “BUT LUUUUV” and shit. Gah. At least they didn’t go for the “strong female suddenly vulnerable and weepy like all women after all” trope. Ugh. Still, did not like.

  121. 121.

    D58826

    @humanoid.panda: President Boehner doesn’t have to confer with the illegal usurper in the White House. As far as payback the US should simply vote present the next time the Palestinians push for a UN recognition of a Palestinian state. No moire veto’s to pull Israels chestnuts out of the fire.

  124. 124.

    sparrow

    @schrodinger’s cat: True… it has been a while now since I saw the movie. Also most of the scenes involving “doing science” were hilariously wtf. (Like throwing the papers and shouting Eureka? No one does that.) Not even getting on the “physics”. But on the women, I can usually sense when a female character (esp non-traditional or nerdy type) is written by a man for whom the inside of a female mind is all “??@$?##?”. They don’t have internal consistency, or motivations that make sense. Basically, they are not people. They just sort of exist like mannequins to hang clothes and lines on. It’s like newsflash bros: women’s brains work more or less like men’s! We have the same fears, motivations, sympathies and petty jealousies as men! Just sometimes we also menstruate and bear children. That, however, is totally unrelated to whether or not we are people. K, thx.

  125. 125.

    geg6

    @Lurking Canadian:

    From what I understand, protocol is that only heads of government should invite other heads of government, not the guy who is third in line.

    That said, thrilled to death that the Obama administration is refusing to meet with this asshole.

  126. 126.

    trollhattan

    @humanoid.panda:
    Interesting. She’s the first politician I’ve encountered who seems to have studied and even adopted some of Obama’s rhetorical style and content.

    I’ll bet that makes her Extra Popular in some circles. :-)

  127. 127.

    schrodinger's cat

    @sparrow: Actually apart from MM’s character, everyone else was a cardboard cut out, including Michael Caine. How come he is the only one who is working on this problem of intergalactic importance did he not have any grad students, besides JC ? rivals? How could he have kept the results of his calculations secret for so many years? too stupid for words.

  128. 128.

    schrodinger's cat

    @sparrow: Actually apart from MM’s character, everyone else was a cardboard cut out, including Michael Caine. How come he is the only one who is working on this problem of intergalactic importance did he not have any grad students, before JC ? rivals? How could he have kept the results of his calculations secret for so many years? too stupid for words.

  130. 130.

    Elie

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Ah c’mon you guys!

    Sure its hoaky how actual science is done.. its entertainment! I took the movie to speak to balancing the knowledge of physics and hard science with theoretical physics — which at times crosses over into philosophy. There is a profound mystery behind some of the aspects of human emotion and concepts like time and “eternity”. I just think that this was what the writer and director had in mind. Not the completely accurate representation of how “real” physics and hard scientists actually work.. we know its not like that. And btw, for what its worth, I though Jessica Chastain was pretty good in the role.. she had to make the relationship with her father very real while transitioning to the adult scientist who had to map over to that complex part about space/time linkage — making it believable somehow. I think she mostly did it…

  131. 131.

    SRW1

    @Doctor Science:

    That foreign funding only concerns Bibi’s election as the leading candiate of Likud. Israeli law allows that, but like US law, it does not allow the funding of actual election campaigns by foreign money.

  132. 132.

    Gravenstone

    @lol: Said Ambassador should really be recalled, then relieved of his post for insubordination. Sadly, I don’t see that happening.

  133. 133.

    humanoid.panda

    @Villago Delenda Est: It’s complicated. It’s not the first time there are prominent women in Israeli politics, and the Orthodox live with that ok. What’s fascinating about Shafir is that she had dabbled into rather radical politics before joining labor, and is not apologizing for that all.

  135. 135.

    humanoid.panda

    @trollhattan: Actually, Tsipi Livni ran a campaign lifted from Obama’s playbook two elections ago. It didn’t work for her because she a)doesn’t have the charisma and b)led a thoroughly corrupt party.

  138. 138.

    Bob In Portland

    Pressure on the Administration to sink the Iran talks. Now Obama’s got Congress, their guests, the intelligence services and the State Department against him. Guess who’ll win?

  141. 141.

    Another Holocene Human

    @humanoid.panda: Your analysis strikes me as incomplete and out of date, if it ever was accurate.

    For one thing, no mention of mizrahi/mizrachi Jews and other Jews of color, as well as Bedouin and Arab minorities in Israel proper. You mention the Haredi (please, they do not wish to be called “ultra orthodox”) as an afterthought but their increasing poverty, dependence on welfare, unemployment, numbers and political muscling, and refusal to engage in military service have become a political crisis in the Knesset in recent years. Ashkenazi vs Sfardim is not some sort of either/or thing but a very one-sided tale of discrimination, most pointedly in the schools. And Israel has a secular vs. religious crisis as chief rabbis increasingly push the limits of their power and flout secular authorities, even legal authorities while secular people have sought relief in the national courts for what they believe are human rights violations, for example, in everything having to do with divorce and marriage. Then of course you have the recent war. Anti-war liberals/left are marginalized at present.

    It’s been 25 years since the fall of the Soviet Union, another generation has been born, and immigrants assimilated into secular or religious communities. There is a peculiarly “Russian” sect, the Chabad-Lubavitchers, but from what I’ve seen they don’t have a big footprint in Israeli politics at present. (They are proud to be good buddies with Putin and of course have taken over shrinking and endangered Jewish communities across Asia and Eurasia. They also have an American connection through camps in Israel and outreach in the US where they try to convert young American Jews to ChaBaD.)

  142. 142.

    Heliopause

    I don’t see what Bibi gets.

    1. He’s been flipping the bird to the Obama Admin almost from the start, so he’s going back to the playbook that he thinks works for him.
    2. He’s heavily committed to his cold war with Iran and this seems like a logical leverage point.

  143. 143.

    Another Holocene Human

    @Cervantes: I don’t think there’s a difference between Israeli-Palestinian violence and right-left violence or haredi-non-haredi violence in Israel, it’s all of a fucking piece, it’s a 360 degree smorgasbord of “settling” conflicts, whether legal, existential, political, or philosophical with violence.

    ETA: like in US, smash the brown people over there, smash the black people over here, just the uniform changes

  144. 144.

    humanoid.panda

    @Another Holocene Human:

    For one thing, no mention of mizrahi/mizrachi Jews and other Jews of color, as well as Bedouin and Arab minorities in Israel proper.

    Arhem- Sephardic Jews is the English language equivalent to Mizrachim..

  145. 145.

    humanoid.panda

    @humanoid.panda:

    There is a peculiarly “Russian” sect, the Chabad-Lubavitchers, but from what I’ve seen they don’t have a big footprint in Israeli politics at present. (

    The Chabadniks are not in any identifiable sense a “Russian” sect in any imaginable way, in the Israeli political context. “Russians” influence Israeli politics via Lieberman’s secular right party, and their strong support for the Likud. Chabadniks tend to vote for splinter right wing parties that don’t make it to the Knesset.

    For a guy who aspires to fact check others, you know very little about how Israeli society works.

  146. 146.

    Another Holocene Human

    @Cacti:

    60% of Israeli voters want Bibi gone.

    64% think the socioeconomic situation has declined under his government.

    58% think the security situation has deteriorated.

    Should have had elections right after he humbled Gaza (euphemism, euphemism!) because even the “liberals” were all rah rah jingoists, racist speech was flying on social media, lefties were literally being delivered of kickings in the street by rightie street gangs, and he was flying high.

    Shades of Bush II (oh, I so hope so).

    The “war” was a salve to cover suppurating wounds of severe domestic problems.

  147. 147.

    humanoid.panda

    nd Israel has a secular vs. religious crisis as chief rabbis increasingly push the limits of their power and flout secular authorities, even legal authorities while secular people have sought relief in the national courts for what they believe are human right

    That is true, but that had been a non-issue in these elections, as the secular party du-jour from the last elections, Lapid Yesh Atid, hadn’t done much on that and tries to ellide the issue, while Labor and Meretz hope to get Shas support in the coalition process, so they are not discussing the issue at all.

  149. 149.

    humanoid.panda

    @Another Holocene Human:

    I don’t think there’s a difference between Israeli-Palestinian violence and right-left violence or haredi-non-haredi violence in Israel, it’s all of a fucking piece, it’s a 360 degree smorgasbord of “settling” conflicts, whether legal, existential, political, or philosophical with violence.

    To use Chris’ analogy from above to argue that haredim or the Mizrachim or the Russians, face the same situation like the Palestinians is like arguing that Catholic immigrants, Southern Whites, and Southern Blacks were all subaltern populations in late 19th century US. It is true in the narrowest of Marxist senses, but makes no lick of sense for anyone who actually tries to observe the situation rather than sound sophisticated and out there.

    ETA: like in US, smash the brown people over there, smash the black people over here, just the uniform changes

    That would make perfect sense, except that the “brown” people in Israel, the Mizrachim, tend to be rabidly anti-Palestinian, and form Bibi’s strongest base of support.

  151. 151.

    Another Holocene Human

    @kindness: Don’t see the connection between GOP’s slash and burn politics in DC and the Democratic minority status. That has more to do with the Constitution and the gerrymandering and the GOP’s prior executive supremacy that gave them control of SCOTUS.

    Dems have been timid because their coalition is more diverse and they are suffering a demographic wave as well that has vastly reduced their numbers with whites in certain regions, maybe all regions. GOP actually has a franken-coalition but they appeal to authoritarians which means that it’s easier to pull the wool over their eyes but they made the mistake a few years back of really rallying and riling the “base” up and then they got out of control (tea party). Now they are trying to put out the flames, the fuel in terms of money and outside organizers was withdrawn some time ago.

  152. 152.

    Another Holocene Human

    @trollhattan: She’s also a babe. :)

    I wish Nancy Pelosi gave speeches like that. Yeah, I know, that’s not really her role. But I wish a powerful congressional Dem (ie not Alan Grayson) would just go off like that and affirm small d democratic values. I don’t even think a major US politician would say we must give everyone in this country a decent life. Obama in SOTU said “if they work for it”. (Contextually they actually are saying the same thing, Obama is not opposing SSI payments and Shaffir specifically calls out welfare payments to Haredi families (where the men often do not work while the women work menial jobs that do not pay all the bills).)

  153. 153.

    Another Holocene Human

    @humanoid.panda: Whoever said I was fact checking you? I have a problem with the tone of your initial post and it frankly doesn’t fit well with what I’ve observed from afar of Israeli politics and social struggles over the last several years.

    It’s funny, you persist in acting as if power doesn’t matter and it’s all a bunch of squabbling children pointing fingers at each other and don’t address what I said about the power imbalance at all.

    And I stated that Chabad doesn’t have a big footprint in Israeli politics so thank you for confirming that. I said Russian in quotes because they have that association outside of Israel but due to their evangelism they have a lot of non-Russian converts in their ranks. But we’re getting off topic here.

  154. 154.

    Another Holocene Human

    @humanoid.panda: There’s a difference in status but no difference in psychology. That was my (narrow) point. I don’t know if you’ve seen Bowling for Columbine where Michael Moore draws a line between the MIC and the Columbine massacre. When he first did this, I thought he was crazy. But as I get older, I think he was onto something.

    And, come on, the violence of US police towards “citizens” has everything to do with the legacy of slavery and the violence of the master or his agent, the overseer and the slave hunter, against slaves. Marxist my ass. It’s common sense.

    Would you deny the connection between the Plantation of Ireland and the British occupation of India? Or between the Spanish Inquisition in the Netherlands and their treatment of Native Americans in the mines of Peru?

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