Gotta love the cojones on this jackass:
Patriots owner Robert Kraft made a surprise appearance at the team’s opening news conference of Super Bowl XLIV on Monday, saying the NFL owed them an apology if its investigation over deflated footballs doesn’t uncover wrongdoing.
“If the Wells investigation is not able to definitively determine that our organization tampered with the air pressure on the footballs, I would expect and hope that the league would apologize to our entire team, and in particular, coach [Bill] Belichick and Tom Brady for what they have had to endure this past week,” Kraft said, referring to attorney Ted Wells, who is leading the investigation with NFL executive vice president Jeff Pash
Wells previously conducted the league’s probe into the Miami Dolphins’ bullying scandal.
Shorter Bob Kraft- “If you can’t prove precisely HOW we were cheating, you owe us an apology.”
Comrade Luke
The fact that they’ve had…what, three press conferences between Belichick and Kraft?…at this point proves that a) they’re wrong,and covering their asses, b) this is a big-time distraction, or most likely c) both.
And btw, what are the odds that some ball boy took the balls and thought “Yea, I’m going to deflate these balls, and I’m not going to tell Brady or Belichick about it”? Yea, zero.
They’re guilty, and my guess is that the NFL will completely exonerate them in a Friday news dump during the middle of March Madness.
Hunter Gathers
Perhaps if the balls were properly inflated, the Colts would have only gotten beat by 21 points instead of 38. I am seriously sick and fucking tired of hearing about it. My Love/Hate relationship with pro football is swinging back to Hate again. Thank FSM that pitchers and catchers report in a few weeks.
Comrade Luke
@Hunter Gathers: It doesn’t fucking matter that they got creamed. The Patriots didn’t know how the game would turn out when they cheated.
srv
I internets called, they want their eleventy-billion pixels back.
I cannot wait until one of Clinton’s bimbos is underenflated.
Hunter Gathers
@Comrade Luke: People are acting like Belichik and Brady took turns skull fucking a kitten on national TV. Get the fuck over it.
waspuppet
Well, he IS a Republican, so I’m not surprised he’s got the routine down pat.
I agreed with Hunter Gathers until this Kraft outburst. And I still think suspending Belichick, for the Super Bowl, or forfeiting the Pats and awarding the Super Bowl berth to the Colts, is ridiculous. But man, they’ve really managed to fk this up.
Goblue72
Arguing over PSI is what fantasy football nerds would do.
And since football is most definitely NOT about what might give a nerd a chub (as opposed to say, baseball), this story is going to go down as one big nothinburger.
Kraft is a senior citizen midget and he just pantsed the press and dared them to do something about it.
Fonzie has jumped the shark and left the building.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Comrade Luke: Everyone knows you only get expelled for cheating if you ace the test.
Hunter Gathers
@waspuppet:
American football is one giant cluster fuck from pee-wee to pro. I just wish I could kick this shitty habit.
Eric U.
@Hunter Gathers: I have only watched a few games this year. I have trouble getting interested in football until November.
Violet
They’re going to throw a lowly locker room attendant under the bus:
srv
@Violet:
One sink and locking door… sounds like a slam dunk to me.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Comrade Luke:
Forgive me for not giving them the credit to know better, but I don’t think the NFL’s process of controlling the weight- and pressure-tested footballs has a lot to be desired- and I think that the Shield’s knowledge of Amonton’s Law is even more wanting. All the League has to do to control the tested footballs is mark them uniquely and at least half of the rumors floating around would disappear.
It won’t surprise me when fifteen years or so into the future, when one of Bill Polian’s assistant/proteges tells a story on the occasion of the Colts’ GM’s passing, it will go something like this:
“So back in 2005 or so, Peyton Manning was getting really fed up with the feel of league supplied footballs. The balls were just too slick too often, and Peyton preferred a slightly more pressurized ball on a consistent basis. Tom Brady was also complaining about the slickness, but he liked his footballs slightly less pressurized. Bill Polian and Bill Belichick got together and took these complaints to the NFL’s Competition Committee*, and got the rules changed so that quarterbacks could condition footballs within certain acceptable parameters, and use those footballs in games.”
“Now there’s a blurb about this in the sports section of the Indianapolis Star, and a physics professor at Purdue, a Colts fan, catches it. This professor calls the Colts’ office and gets Bill [Polian] on the line. This professor explains to Bill that the pressure of the balls correlates to the temperatures, that Peyton’s footballs will “inflate” in hot weather and how Brady’s will “deflate” in cool weather. Bill let’s Peyton know to slightly under-pressurize balls before games in Miami, Tampa, blah, blah, blah…But he keeps the information about cool weather effects in his back pocket, waiting for the day when it would come in handy.”
“That day came in January 2014. Bill tells Chuck Pagano before the game that if the game is getting away, raise a question about Brady’s footballs. If nothing else comes of it, those assholes in New England will have nightmares trying to explain it away. But, if everything works out, New England might lose Belichick for a year, or maybe even an entire draft over it. Guess which up-and-coming team has one less contender to worry about in the future?”
*Yes, Polian/Manning and Belichick/Brady were the prime movers behind the rule change.
SmallAxe
Big nothingburger, that scapegoat ball boy had exactly 90 seconds in that bathroom to supposedly deflate 12 balls (it’s on film), so unless he’s the flash he just took a piss. Slam dunk sunk.
Keith G
Maybe few resources have been devoted because it really is not that important to the outcome of a game. A $10,000 fine also indicates that this is not a big deal. Don’t end zone excessive celebration fines run the same amount?
Ironically, I bet the NFL would rather the press and public be focused of ball-gate than spouse beatings or traumatic brain injury.
Morzer
@Violet:
90 seconds seems like a pretty limited time frame for deflating 12 balls and making sure they were deflated according to the parameters provided. There’s no way that someone didn’t specify what was expected of the guy, if he does end up taking the wrap -BUT, given the limited timeframe available, it’s also absolutely obvious that he’d have to have done this before to be sure of getting the job done so quickly. In other words, the Patsies can’t just patsify some poor schmuck and expect anyone to believe that this was the first time, the only time and he just happened to do it by accident.
Put that together with Belichick’s attempt to talk out time with bullshit “science” about how it *could* have happened just a couple of days after telling us that he was absolutely uninterested in game balls and knew nothing about them and had never discussed them, although he was extremely interested in practice balls and had spent years making them as hard to work with as possible.. and you’ve got an organization that has obviously done this repeatedly in the past and is now desperately trying to brazen it out.
MoeLarryAndJesus
John Cole has some cojones talking about “cheating” when the Iron Curtain was spun out of steroids.
And this deflation bullshit is about as well-founded as Sarah Palin’s world view. The NFL has been caught up in bullshit here.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Keith G:
Or crotch-grabbing- which set BeastMode back about $22K. And let us not forget last year’s controversy between the conference championships and Super Bowl: Richard-Sherman-As-Angry-Thug-Gate.
Morzer
@MoeLarryAndJesus:
Interesting. The “both sides do it so my team of repeat cheats ought to be exempt from criticism” defense. Very Palinesque of you.
AxelFoley
@Comrade Luke:
Exactly.
Morzer
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
The NFL seemed quite happy to make money off that crotch-grabbing – just as soon as they realized that pictures of it would sell to the sort of gullible rubes who want that sort of thing on their walls for spiritual contemplation or some such.
Morzer
@Hunter Gathers:
Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire and Pete Rose thank you for your support.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Morzer:
Yeah, I don’t get that shit. I’m not down for collectibles unless they’ve got personalized autographs that were signed in front of me just before I shook a hand- and I don’t have anything like that. I only have this hanging on a wall, and only because I was there, and sitting not far from where the photo was made…And it was a Christmas present from my mom, to boot.
Morzer
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
I’d love to see the NFL’s reaction if Lynch strode into his next press conference and demanded an apology from Roger Goodell for fining a man who was just making sure that his game balls were inflated to the right pressure. That would be one of the great moments for the ages.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Morzer:
LOL! Agreed!
The Ancient Randonneur
Damn! A little after 3:30 am on the East coast and someone already won the internet.
Chopper
Has don lemon coughed up any theories? maybe a black hole gobbled up the air in the balls.
Edmund Dantes
How people react to this story goes to show exactly why torture would never work. People are so certain that what they believe is true, it doesn’t matter what happened now even if Pats did nothing wrong. John and others would still be water boarding Brady, Belichick, and Kraft waiting for them to confess.
“the truth isn’t really what’s important… What really matters is what people come to agree is the truth.” – Greymane
I really have to question Glazers reporting or source. They knew this was the bathroom. Why the mystery? So f…ing stupid.
Graham
Tom Hagen: “This committee owes an apology!”
Mike Toreno
Res ipsa loquitur.
Q.E.D.
“You may well say it, Brer Hightower! It’s jist as I was a-sayin’ to Brer Phelps, his own self. S’e, what do you think of it, Sister Hotchkiss, s’e? Think o’ what, Brer Phelps, s’I? Think o’ that bed-leg sawed off that a way, s’e? think of it, s’I? I lay it never sawed
itself off, s’I, somebody sawed it, s’I; that’s my opinion, take it or leave it, it mayn’t be no ‘count, s’I, but sich as ‘t is, it’s my opinion, s’I, ‘n’ if any body k’n start a better one, s’I, let him do it, s’I, that’s all.
Brendan in NC
@Violet: Yup. He’ll be publicly fired – and a few weeks later a large sum of money will magically appear in his bank account.
PaulW
Even shorter Bob Kraft: I own you all, kneel and worship me.
marduk
Incredible. The league owes the Patriots an apology, right now. ESPN owes the Patriots an apology. Troy Aikman specifically owes Brady an apology. What a joke.
Yeah, the ridiculous nature of the accusation proves just how devious and cheaty those Patriots are! Sure it SEEMS ludicrous but that’s just because the Patriots are so good at cheating.
Morzer
@marduk:
Three alleged games so far in which the Patriots’ balls were apparently magically deflated. All 12 of them under regulation weight in the last game. Said deflation magically occurred during a very short time span.
And, of course, the Patriots have form for being unscrupulous and breaking the rules.
But sure, let’s call it ridiculous just because Robert Kraft has forgotten how he had to apologize to the entire owners’ meeting after being caught last time.
marduk
11 of 12, allegedly. Pressure, not weight. 2 1/2 hours, not a very short time span. And there’s nothing magical about it at all.
The league’s been smearing the Pats with anonymous leaks for a week and a half (many of which have been revealed to be false) and they have NOTHING.
Svensker
@Just Some Fuckhead:
This times eleventy.
Why is it so hard for people to get this?
Svensker
@Violet:
Well, somebody had to tell him to do that, didn’t they? We’re all supposed to believe that a ball boy decided on his own to alter Tom Brady’s footballs in the championship game on his own? “Gee, I hope Mr. Brady doesn’t mind if I alter the footballs just a little. I’m sure it will help him, at least that’s what I’ve heard.” This wasn’t the West Bumfler Regional High School game we’re talkin about.
weaselone
@Svensker: @Svensker:
90 seconds in a bathroom with the 12 balls. Logical conclusion is the guy took a leak. Nobody had to tell the locker room attendant to do anything he didn’t do.
Loviatar
I blame Bob Kraft, this is the deal he made
over the past 15 yrs;
– made the playoffs 14 yrs (missed it with an 11-5 record)
– got to 6 Super Bowls (40% of those played during that time)
– won 3 Super Bowls (20% of those played during that time), with a chance to win a 4th
– earned hundreds of millions of dollars
In return he is treated like a GOD in New England and a cheat everywhere else. Who wouldn’t take that deal? More importantly why isn’t the owner of your favorite team making the same deal.
—–
As an owner my ONLY question to aspiring GMs and Coaches would be; what would you do to win? And if the answer wasn’t anything and everything, then they wouldn’t even get a second interview.
JoeShabadoo
@Violet: No one is getting thrown under the bus, no one is even getting trouble.
If he took all twelve balls out of the bag, stuck a needle in each one long enough to deflate it, stuffed the balls back in the bag and then casually walked outside in 90 seconds he deserves an MVP award.
Morzer
@marduk:
No, all 12 were under regulation inflation. And no, there is absolutely nothing magical about what the Patriots did. They just followed the Patriot Way; cheat and if you get caught be as sanctimonious as possible and pray that the fans and media are dumb enough to believe you.
marduk
That’s not what the NFL leaked initially. Has that turned out to be bullshit too?
And this is why the league owes them an apology. They knew they had nothing but they could get the haters all wound up and invested in the superbowl with a smear campaign. How does it feel to be led around by the nose?
Ruckus
Having worked in professional sports as a person whose job it was to catch cheating, I’d have to say that I had one and only one person with this attitude. Everyone else took it in stride. Not saying we ended up best friends but they did act like adults. Of course we weren’t on the front page of newspapers/top story on TV, etc, and the dollar value of losing was less(maybe not proportionally to that invested) and we didn’t lose many fans over it either.
Still WATB is WATB.
T. Hunt
The interesting thing is that the NFL is acting like ball inflation is some sort of scientific process when it’s just a casual test performed by humans with very basic instruments (?).
Question 1) Were the exact pressures written down by the ref who checked the balls? Do we know how close to the min/max they were and were they consistent?
Question 2) How accurate are the gauges used to check? Were the same gauges used to test the balls at halftime and at the end of the game? Is there any sort of certification for the gauges?
Question 3) What sort of history exists regarding ball pressure? Do we have 16 seasons worth of data that show that footballs never lose more than 0.5 PSI during a game?
Question 4) Is there any evidence that anyone knows how balls perform under realworld conditions or did the NFL just go off on some guy saying, “Hey, this ball feels a little soft!”?
Question 5) Did the NFL start this whole mess to cover up the fact that they have been certifying balls and they have no idea how consistent they’ve been and they now realize they’ve been carrying out this dunbshow and then turning the balls over to god knows who for 15 minutes before every game which renders the entire process of ball checking meaningless?
I think the NFL got surprised by a random comment and has now freaked out that they have been exposed as an organization run by the Keystone cops. But it sure does take the spotlight off the murders, wife beaters and players that harshly discipline their kids.
I’m with Kraft on this one; when the NFL realizes that no one tampered with the balls they owe a great big apology to the owner, the coach and the team. Maybe the league should fine Goodell a million or so for being a dick?
T. Hunt
JoeShabadoo
@marduk: I would take any leak, especially the initial leak, with a huge grain of salt. The initial leak also had the balls deflated about double the amount than more recent reports have said.
fubs
11of 12 balls underinflated.
10 of those 11 were underinflated by 1psi or less.
Those 10 were caused by deflation from league minimum by weather and handling.
The last underinflated ball was under the minimum by 2psi.
This ball was the one the Colts took in an interception.
The Colts tampered with this ball.
DLew
Use your aggressive feelings, Cole. Let the hate flow through you.
Gee, whatever could the ballboy be doing in a bathroom for 90 seconds? Deflating balls at a rate of one per 8 seconds, or taking a leak and washing his hands? Someone call Inspector Poirot, because this is one unsolvable mystery.
You fell for this MSM fail parade hook, line, and sinker, Cole. It’s fandom. It makes you see what you want to see–kind of like you’re a Fox News watcher.
marduk
@fubs: Even 2 PSI is easily explained by weather and play, so no need for conspiracy theories. The fact is that the Pats have nothing to answer for.
http://www.wcsh6.com/story/news/local/2015/01/22/deflategate-patriots-football-pressure-inflated/22174475/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg
Morzer
@marduk:
The fact is that fubs has managed to get just about every fact wrong and the Cheatriots have a very obvious case to answer. Still, it adds a certain amusement to watch the wildly unconvincing explanations they have to resort to as a means of evading the obvious and embarrassing reality of the situation.
Morzer
@marduk:
Except that it isn’t -and it doesn’t explain why the Colts managed to mysteriously play with balls inflated according to the rules for the entire game.
Still, I am sure you’ll find a grainy picture of a UFO hovering over the game if you look hard enough.
JoeShabadoo
@Morzer:It’s easily explained by the Patriots inflating their balls to the bare minimum while the Colts inflate them more.
fubs
@Morzer: @Morzer:
What facts?
marduk
@Morzer: Didn’t bother checking the links, didja? Can’t let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
oldhoya
@Morzer: If the Patriots started at 12.5 psi and the Colts normally inflate theirs to the upper end of the allowed range, then it would be logical for the Patriots’ footballs to fall under the required level while Colts’ footballs remained above it under the same conditions. I don’t think the public knows the starting and ending measurements of the Colts’ footballs — it’s unlikely the league even maintains precise pregame measurements — but it would be interesting to know if the pressures changed in the Colts’ footballs.
Morzer
@marduk:
I’ve already seen both you and fubs presenting wildly inaccurate summaries of the facts and ignoring the evidence that can’t be fitted into your conspiracy theories. Just remember, it was the Cheatriots who had to publicly acknowledge that they had cheated and apologize to the NFL after your little episode in 2007. Still, I am sure there’s a perfectly innocent explanation….
Please proceed, Patsies.
Morzer
@oldhoya:
That’s an awful lot of ifs for which there is no evidence. Given the Cheatriots’ track record, I think we can dispense with the wildly hypothetical coincidences at this point.
lethargytartare
@JoeShabadoo:
why? I work with people that can insert 180 snap-in terminals into molex connectors every minute. Considering this was likely not his first go around at getting footballs to Brady pressure, 90 seconds is plenty of time.
fubs
@Morzer:
Inaccurate summaries of…WHAT FACTS?
marduk
@Morzer: You mean we presented facts that didn’t conform to the lies you would like to believe?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/
OOPS!
Morzer
@marduk:
http://deadspin.com/nfl-football-manufacturer-also-says-bill-belichick-is-f-1681802079
So, in one corner we have facts, the people who actually make the balls in question and the scientific community. In the other, we have conspiracy theorists, Bill Belichick and fans who don’t want to face the truth about the “Patriot Way”.
I know which side my money is on.
zeecube
@weaselone: Maybe ballboy did a switchreroo. 90 seconds is plenty of time to switch out 12 balls with 12 Brady-approved balls with fake referee marks stored in bathroom.
Morzer
@marduk:
Morzer
@zeecube:
Barbara
I am already planning my Super Bowl-less Sunday. It will involve either ice skating or skiing, plus dinner and definitely wine, depending on the weather and my work schedule. I can’t take it anymore. This will be the second year in a row — last year I was in California and forgot about the time difference, driving back from Mendocino to SF. Boy, that was a lucky break on my part, as I arrived at the beginning of the second half to find the score 35-0.
Kevin
On the Richard Sherman topic, he makes some great points in his column in SI today. Everyone knows how uncomfortable Marshawn Lynch is talking to the media. The media doesn’t talk to every single player (let’s be honest, they are interviewing the LOP, Wilson, maybe some Canadian media wants to talk to the other Wilson (TE), and…maybe Bennett and Avril?).
If everyone knows how uncomfortable he is, why do we insist on forcing it? Do we really need him to answer “tell us about your 24 yard touchdown run”? Is that really critical? Sherman is right, the NFL and the media at this point are acting solely to embarrass Lynch. There is nothing to gain by having the media prop him up in a chair and ask him questions they know he doesn’t want to answer. It’s all for their silly little columns where they can write about how awful he is for not answering their inane questions.
It’s all quite pathetic (and if you do venture to SI, hopefully you can read Peter Kings crap without the rage I get from it…what a pathetic excuse for a “reporter” that man is).
fubs
@Morzer:
NdT and Bill Nye (not a scientist) and the sales rep from Wilson (not a scientist) are talking about a 2psi differential.
There was a 2psi differential in only one ball, the ball the Colts tampered with.
All of the other underinflated balls were 1psi under or less, which none of your scientists or pseudo-scientists or non-scientists have responded to.
marduk
@Morzer: Follow my links, clown. Bill Nye is wrong and multiple sources have demonstrated it.
“We took 12 brand-new authentic NFL footballs and exposed them to the different elements they would have experienced throughout the game,” said HeadSmart Labs founder Thomas Healy in a press release announcing the results of their study. “Out of the 12 footballs we tested, we found that, on average, footballs dropped 1.8 psi when being exposed to dropping temperatures and wet conditions.”
http://www.digitaltrends.com/sports/bill-nye-ignoring-science-deflategate-teardown-hes-seahawks-fan/
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/01/26/scientists-agree-that-football-will-lose-air-pressure-when-moved-cooler-place/2KfFPHn9dARXXCwMgBMSkO/story.html
fubs
P.S. The lockeroom attendant in question is an NFL employee, NOT a Patriots employee:
JoeShabadoo
@Morzer: @Morzer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg
I’m pretty sure this was already posted. An actual scientific experiment to replicate gameday conditions showed a big a drop in PSI. Celebrity scientists spouting off to get attention can’t compete with an actual experiment that shows the results. Unless Beakman gives us his opinion I’m sticking with with the actual experiment.
Morzer
@marduk:
I’ll take your name-calling as an admission that you can’t make a convincing case.
fubs
Effing link:
“A person with intimate knowledge of the process told USA TODAY Sports the ball attendant is a uniformed official – generally the same person each week at a given stadium – who comes to the locker room to pick up the balls and takes them to the officials’ locker room for testing.”
fubs
@Morzer:
Your first fact!
Morzer
@JoeShabadoo:
None of which is remotely convincing. The Colts’ balls, which were inflated by the officials to the same range (12.5-13.5psi) as the Cheatriots’ balls, didn’t mysteriously deflate after being measured. Unless you want to argue for a different micro-climate that somehow followed the Colts’ balls around, you’ve got no way to account for the discrepancy without human intervention.
Morzer
@fubs:
I am sure the Patsies will win a legitimate superbowl some day. And no doubt your prince will appear on a white horse as well.
marduk
@Morzer: Rather than all the links with the proof you’re wrong you’d prefer to focus on my mocking tone. Quelle surprise.
marduk
I love how you just make things up out of whole cloth. What PSI were the Colt’s balls inflated to?
fubs
@Morzer:
Colt’s footballs inflated to 13.5.
Patriot’s footballs inflated to 12.5.
Now, here we go, THE MOMENT OF TRUTH: subtract 1 (one) from each figure:
Colt’s footballs at the half: 12.5
Patriot’s footballs at the half: 11.5.
Patriot football intercepted by the Colt’s and tampered with: 10.5.
Done and done!
JoeShabadoo
@lethargytartare: Did you have a competition at work with hundreds of connectors lined up or did you just pull this out of your nethers like I expect? If he can plug in three connectors of anything every second I am seriously impressed even if you lined them up for him, which you absolutely would have had to do to get anywhere near that number.
Now you expect this guy to be able to take 12 balls out of bag, pick up each one spread all around the floor (alternatively take them out individually and lay them on the floor only to have to pick them all up and stuff them in the bag at the end.), find the needle hole, put in a needle, deflate them, take the needle out and put them back in the bag within 90 seconds. To even consider this a possibility you basically need to have this employee practicing this regularly and be purposely moving at full speed just in-case the NFL times him during his bathroom break.
gratuitous
Pretty gutsy thing for the Seahawks’ Sherman to say, considering the screw job the Seahawks endured in the 2005 Super Bowl so the Bus could get a champeenship ring all his own in his last season.
Ooops, probably shouldn’t mention that here.
I will, however, laugh until I puke if Seattle waxes New England like I think they will.
marduk
More science:
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/27/nfl-deflategate-investigation-patriots/
Again, the NFL needs to issue an apology.
marduk
@Morzer:
“The only problem with this hot science take is that Tyson’s numbers, and therefore his conclusions, are nonsense.”
http://www.avclub.com/article/neil-degrasse-tyson-bungles-science-deflate-gate-s-214373
OOPS
NobodySpecial
Patriots fans have no explanation for how their fumble rate for the last several years has been obscenely low, while players leaving the system and going to other teams end up fumbling a LOT more for their new team.
Patriots fans are basically all NASCAR guys – if you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’ is their motto.
marduk
@NobodySpecial: Other than the fact that Sharp’s analysis was garbage, the Patriots straight-up fire anyone who fumbles regularly.
Once again the haters fail.
weaselone
@zeecube: @zeecube:
That’s definitely true, but if that is the case then presumably the underinflated footballs must have been brought into the bathroom at some point. There should be footage of that unless the cameras are turned off at some point. Also, the other balls would have been left in the bathroom and would have been removed at some point which could also be on camera.
NobodySpecial
@marduk: Your arguments make little sense if one actually parses the data. When with the Patriots, Welker had 127 touches as a returner with four fumbles, and 690 touches as a receiver with six fumbles. If you take the article’s stated premise:
Which means that Welker would have had 3.937 fumbles as a returner (spookily close his actual number of four), but on pass plays by average he should have had 11.523 fumbles on his other plays – he had half that. That difference is hard to explain, but one possible explanation is certainly that the punts would have been done with the opponent’s ball, while the offense was done with a deflated ball, which it’s been demonstrated that the Patriots use. By all logic, a team that plays half their games outside a dome, several a year in inclement weather should actually turn the ball over more than a team that plays in a climate controlled dome. The stats simply don’t bear that out. Me? I’m a firm believer in Occam’s Razor, and this is an organization that has cheated in the past and been caught doing it.
marduk
@NobodySpecial: It’s not MY argument, it’s Daryl Sng. And unlike Sharp, he did correctly parse the data.
I think it’s hysterical that you cite Welker as your example since Welker’s fumble stats are : With the Patriots – 6. On all other teams – 0.
Somehow Welker became infinitely better at ball control once he left the Pats!!! What are the Broncos hiding?????
I demand an investigation.
(Also, notice how tiny the numbers are anyway- the highest career fumble total is Welker with 6 out of 800+ touches. I challenge any statistician to draw a valid correlation from such a rare event. If you remove one player from the list- Jabar Gaffney – the players fumbled more for the pats than they did for the other teams. Or to quote the linked piece again: “If these players had combined for just four more fumbles over a seven-year span during their Patriots tenure, their overall collective fumble rate be nearly identical to their non-Patriots fumble rate.”)
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@NobodySpecial:
All kicks are made with K-balls, which are controlled by the Shield from start to finish.K-balls are more highly pressurized.
The problem with Sharp’s Analysis (starring Sean Bean, coming to PBS next year- check your local listings) is, then, that he has to go through and adjust every team’s stats, not just the Pats. Punt returners have a high ratio of fumbles/touch on those plays- if you take fumbles on punts out of the equation, other teams might be a lot closer to the Pats.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Also, too, it’s unfair not to adjust the Packers’, Lions’ and Vikings’ numbers for the Peanut Tillman Effect. Twice a year against that guy?!?! Yeah, your fumble numbers are going up.
Gavin
1) Newspaper article summarizing scientists’ findings
2) Carnegie Mellon (HeadSmart) study
Read the above 2 pieces all the way through.
Even Bill Nye didn’t actually do the experiments he’s commenting on.. This shouldn’t be shocking: Nye is a Seahawks fan.
Gossip has no credibility – this is science, period.
marduk
@NobodySpecial: And a followup: Why Those Statistics About The Patriots’ Fumbles Are Mostly Junk
Gavin
Furthermore, the Pats did not “GET CAUGHT” — the referee is the final arbiter of the rules. The referee agreed with the balls as provided during the game.
This is no different than the referee calling [or not calling] a cut block, a dangerous hit, etc. There isn’t “coming near to the edge” – either they did, AND YOU CAN PROVE IT, or nothing.
If you can’t measure it, it didn’t happen.
DLew On Roids
You guys pointing out the Patriots’ fumble rates are onto something! In fact, this doesn’t have to be just fumble-related. In fact, the next time a team goes 15-1 I’ll just assume they were cheating because they were so much better than everyone else.
Eric
@marduk:
Except he didn’t analyze the data correctly. His first article had the Patriots at a 7% differential. Then when astute readers pointed out that he was selecting data that made the Patriots look better, he revised his findings and the Patriots suddenly had a 23% differential.
Sharp’s study is much more accurate than Sng’s. He already cherrypicked the data, and had to be corrected. He is still using incomplete data, for example, by not including fumble stats for Patriots players *before* they became Patriots.
He’s just another Pats fan who is devastated to learn that nothing they’ve accomplished since 200 really means anything.
marduk
Ignore all the links debunking his analysis. You can just assert that it’s accurate anyway! Problem solved!
fubs
Ha ha. NdG admitted he calculated incorrectly.