Senator Lindsey “Master of Fantods” Graham is seriously serious about his nascent “presidential exploratory committee”. From the AP, via the Washington Post:
… Graham spent two days in Iowa this week, mostly attending private events with Republican elected officials and activists, as part of his efforts to “test the waters” for a potential campaign.
A member of the Senate Armed Services Committee and a leading GOP voice on foreign policy, Graham also spoke at an event organized by a former Iowa National Guard leader and talked with reporters about national security issues.
A critic of President Barack Obama’s foreign policy, Graham said he would focus on international affairs should he decide to run for president. During his Friday press conference, he said Obama’s moves have put the country at risk, as threats grow from Islamic State militants.
“I’ve never been more worried about a terrorist-style attack on the U.S. than I am today,” Graham said. “I have one simple goal. Keep the war over there, so it doesn’t come here.”…
The Washington Post‘s political horse race touts are less impressed:
… Graham certainly hasn’t generated the same amount of enthusiasm or buzz as other candidates – but his status as one of President Obama’s most vocal foreign policy critics could endear him to voters in search of a candidate with expertise in international relations.
And he has already picked up some key support: In addition to a strong vote of confidence from longtime Senate buddy and former GOP nominee Sen. John McCain, Politico reported Thursday that GOP megadonor Sheldon Adelson is hosting a fundraiser for Graham next month…
Yeah, Adelson’s support worked out so well for Newt Gingrich 2012. Srsly: All those Vegas millions didn’t improve Gingrich’s chances of actually winning the GOP nomination, but they did give the Newt some serious grift-cushion. So if Graham just wants somebody to pay him to fly around the country on private jets, spewing hot air for the hardcore true believers and an increasingly bored cadre of journalists, WINNING!
Also, per Dave Weigel at Bloomberg Politics, it’s all good by Graham’s home state voters:
GREENVILLE, S.C.—David Wilkins spent many years and a small fortune to make a president out of George W. Bush. In 1999, as speaker of South Carolina’s state House, he endorsed Bush as early as he could. In 2004, Wilkins bundled more than $200,000 in donations for Bush, earning him the elite “ranger” status. Bush paid him back in 2005 by making him America’s ambassador to Canada.
In 2015, Ambassador Wilkins is supporting Senator Lindsey Graham for president…
“If he’s serious, and I think that he is, one impact it will have will really be that he’ll take potential infrastructure away from somebody else,” said Representative Mick Mulvaney, taking his seat at the front of a chandeliered ballroom. “Lindsey’s the best politician in the state. He knows the best political consultants in the state. He knows the best grassroots organizers in the state. He’s the very best at what he does. If he does get into the race I think he sucks some of that oxygen out of the room.”…
As they talked, Wilkins shook hands with Representative Trey Gowdy and Representative Jeff Duncan. Gowdy, the district’s congressman, had just received $5,200 from Jeb Bush’s Right to Rise PAC. But he was not endorsing anyone, focusing instead on getting candidates to South Carolina for town hall meetings. And after the breakfast ended, Politico confirmed that Gowdy would attend a March 3 fundraiser for Graham’s exploratory committee…
Oh, dear goddess: Lindsey Graham is fantasizing himself the Dick Cheney to Jeb Bush’s Dubya Mark II. And meanwhile, he’s making bank like a minor Mafia don at a family christening party.
rikyrah
Senator Pittypat cracks me up.
jl
Hope Graham makes it to at least the first debates. Will be interesting to see whether audience cracks up when the rhythm and tone of the other candidate’s hysterical panders to wingnut primary base is interrupted by Graham’s bloodthirsty but prissy and prim, and panicky sounding, natter and patter.
Edit: Seriously I did not see rikyah’s comment before I typed mine. There is hope LG will be a true laff riot, a bright entertainment light in the GOPer clown car.
danielx
@rikyrah:
Today’s Win for the intertubes. Much more mellifluous than Huckleberry Closetcase.
Salacious Crumb
thug kitty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNWjZcbv2uI
jl
@Salacious Crumb: Looks like what you might call a ‘Handful Cat’.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Oh, I think he will be, I think he will be.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
Presumably McCain is pushing him to carry on his legacy as, well, always being wrong about military action, I guess. And Lindsey’s hoping for the VP slot, to balance Walker or maybe JEB. And it helps to keep a billionaire (or two)’s pet issues in the news.
It’s not totally silly, if that’s the motivation.
If he actually thinks he can win the nomination, well…
Cheers,
Scott.
(Or the election. Ha!)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Dear god, I think this may be the stupidest of all the lines they trot out. I know that’s a hell of a competition but fercrissake.
phoebes-in-santa fe
You know, everyone seems to think Lindsay is “in the closet”, but I don’t. I think he’s asexual. Doesn’t think about it either way.
Debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Maybe if he’d been worried back when he wasn’t, we wouldn’t be where we are today.
jl
@phoebes-in-santa fe: Just to be clear, I don’t know and I don’t care either, and as far as I care he could be asexual, or a closet philanderer with men or women or both, and have a long term relationship with one or the other. I don’t care.
I think that he goes on on bizarre harangues that are blootdthirsty, prissy and prim, and also at the same time throw off strange impressions, to me, of total panic, and that are delivered in a tidy neat pitter patter. And these harangues suddenly and unexpectedly veer into territory that is infuriating, or irritating or hilarious. And it doesn’t have anything to do, in my mind at least, with anything about his sex life or preference.
Graham is odd enough that his GOP rivals will be trying out all sorts of insinuations. That will complicate the necessary job of making fun of, ridiculing, and criticizing the guy at every opportunity. Even if he has no chance, he is an extension of grandpa wargrumps McCain, whose ideas a truly frightening and dangerous, and far too influential. I mean, even if Graham is going for veep, he would be a heartbeat away if the GOPer at the head of the ticket got elected.
FlipYrWhig
I feel like this more-than-usually-quixotic effort has something to do with upsetting the South Carolina primary by putting a “native son” candidate into the mix, thereby assuring that one of the other candidates can’t win two out of the first three and thus claim to be the frontrunner. Maybe the target is Huckabee?
WereBear
@phoebes-in-santa fe: A friend of mine worked in Urah for a while. She says there was a drama teacher there who very well liked despite his flamboyant persona.
“That’s nicer treatment of gay people than I expected,” I said. “You told me they were very conservative there.”
“This is Utah,” she said. “He doesn’t know.”
another Holocene human
Note to DC media: do not include the sexually repressed Graham and the phrase “expert in relations”in the same sentence.
Snarki, child of Loki
Oh noes, now he will stamp his little feet!!
Anne Laurie
@jl:
I agree that it’s not what Graham is or isn’t doing in his bedroom, it’s what he’s trying to do to the rest of us from the Senate.
But there is some kind of weird comedy waiting to be written about how the Repubs got a ton of publicity out of their “proud post-feminist woman VP candidate” in 2008, so now Lindsey’s branch is pushing to try out… the next obvious “token minority candidate” variant. (It’d be a Black Guy, but us Democrats already put a Black Guy in the White House, so… )
another Holocene human
@rikyrah: Not a dog on you but I’m tired of the aunt pittypat and miss Lindsay jokes. Being light in the loafers doesn’t mean he’s non gender binary or whatever and as far as we know he’s celibate. A young man I know interned for Graham and didn’t get creeped on so he’s doing better than Massa and Republicans named “Trey”.
Just call him Chicken Little. Chik-Fil-A Little. If the beak fits.
jl
@Anne Laurie: I forgot to mention that when Graham gets going on his harangues, they are endless. I heard him fill up minute upon minute of dangerous nonsense that sounded both bloodthirsty and terrified at the same time. This was Schieffer’s show. Maybe because Graham is a GOPer, and Schieff was longing for McCainThought, Schieffer let him yammer on uninterrupted. I didn’t know whether to laugh or grind my teeth into splinters.
Seemed like Graham yammered and bloviated away without pausing to take a breath and filled up a whole segment between commercials.
Edit: and slanderous deranged nonsense too. That is where I heard Graham accuse Obama of being responsible for several hundred thousand deaths in the Syrian civil war, as if Obama got Assad in power and started the civil war himself. Effing outrageous crap, LG was spouting.
another Holocene human
@jl: But why does our side have to make the gendered attacks? The stuff out of his mouth, like Ann Coulter, why not stop there? Talk about the emotions; Coulter is hateful and a fraud, Graham is a hysterical warmonger and a hypocrite. But plenty of people on our side aren’t gender conforming, traditionally beautiful, or even very personable or nice. We just want them to be who they say they are and vote the right way.
I don’t mind Huckleberry Closetcase so much because he does play up the southern shtick and he is in the closet. I don’t think he’s a highly sexual person but he is gay no doubt in my mind and he does come off as repressed or at least unsatisfied and unhappy.
Baud
@efgoldman:
You are and you’re not.
raven
@another Holocene human: Because it doesn’t bother them as much as it bothers you?
Patricia Kayden
On which planet could Graham become president? I can’t imagine that any donors would actually sink money into this losing cause. Walker or Bush are going to need all that $$$ to go up against The Hilary Clinton.
another Holocene human
@Baud: We can never be certain.
jl
@another Holocene human: If you are referring to my take on Graham, make the case that what I say is some innuendo about or attack based on his sexual preference, please explain why, rather than assume it.
Graham says hateful and dangerous things. I’m not going to censor myself in ridiculing and criticizing Graham because others think it is a good idea to insinuate things about his sexual preference. I am going to ridicule and criticize Graham, including his manner, just the way I do Giuliani, or Bush II, or Jeb, or Christie or Walker or anyone of those scoudrels.
Edit: if you want, I guess I could just say from now on he goes on truly endless prissy lunatic bloodthirsty harangues that sound panicked at the same time. Is that OK? I will try to calibrate my ridicule, to show good faith.
Smiling Mortician
@another Holocene human: I don’t take the Pittypat references as particularly gendered. Aunt Pittypat is a character in a book/movie who constantly needs her smelling salts cause everything makes her clutch her pearls and collapse onto the fainting couch. That’s Lindsey Graham, and it would be even if it were Uncle Pittypat.
mdblanche
@Snarki, child of Loki: He’ll advocate airstrikes against our childrens’ rabbits.
Cervantes
Money is not sufficient but it is surely necessary. If Adelson (or someone) were not ready to bankroll Graham, we might be asking instead how Graham could possibly make a serious run.
Except insofar as those millions made it possible for Gingrich to run at all, assuming he did intend to win.
Kropadope
@jl:
Yeah, the idea that failing to intervene in a deadly conflict makes one responsible for the resulting deaths only exists on the right.
Baud
@efgoldman:
Tom Brady’s debt to Satan must be paid.
Iowa Old Lady
@efgoldman: When I hear people from the Boston area talking, it’s like the weather has finally knocked them flat. I don’t blame them.
Pogonip
Does anybody know what happened to that guy named Cole who used to post cute puppy pictures occasionally? I think he may have had a cat, too; been so long I can’t remember for sure.
Mike J
@efgoldman:
They never said he was sane, they said he was the best the Republicans had to offer.
MomSense
Can I just say how pissed off I am that we have a fantastic president right now and yet our media are a combination of corrupt and incompetent such that these clown car Republicans are given even a second of consideration while the sensible, mainstream proposals to repair roads and bridges or invest in energy and infrastructure are just dismissed as not passable.
I’m a positive person but I am rapidly entering mad as hell not going to take it anymore territory.
jl
@Kropadope: Your comment is completely irrelevant to to anything I said. I said nothing about a habit or tendency of ‘the right’. I was specifically talking about the specific comments of a specific individual, Lindsay Graham, on a specific occasion.
Second, I was talking about what Graham said in reference to the current civil war in Syria. The decision not to intervene may be right or wrong, and worthy or not worthy of criticism, severe or not severe, depending on the situation.
Your link goes to the top of this post, so not sure what point you are trying to make.
Kropadope
@efgoldman: We tried to get the snow off our roof on our own today. It was hopeless. Only my former-firefighter of a father was confident striding around the roof and weeks of accumulation have made it so dense. We gave up after the smallest segment. The rain is gonna be ugly.
Pogonip
@Iowa Old Lady: If Betnard Cornwell were writing about Boston, this would be the point in the book where they’d sacrifice some poor slob to placate the weather gods.
Mandalay
@phoebes-in-santa fe:
I doubt if he thinks about it anywhere near as much as some of the homophobes here. Of course they never claim to know anything anyone else’s sexuality, but everything about Graham’s, and somehow find it really important to make it relevant, and share their views.
raven
@Mike J: Hey, I enjoyed the film. I bought a VHS copy and it wasn’t great but I found it really interesting the way they talked about what junkers the four pipers were even at the start of the war. Most Brit DD’s of that class stayed four stackers whole my dad’s craft was converted to an APD with two boilers. It’s a shame that the one in the film wasn’t preserved since it was made in 1951.
Iowa Old Lady
I see Scott Walker “doesn’t know” if Obama is a Christian.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/walker-says-he-is-unaware-whether-obama-is-a-christian/2015/02/21/6fde0bd0-ba17-11e4-bc30-a4e75503948a_story.html
Roger Moore
I notice that no war at all was never an option.
gf120581
I’m eager for Graham to enter the race for the same reason Jon Stewart is; it’ll be immensly entertaining. The man is not only a drama queen, he’s also the biggest coward alive. (As Stewart put it, “he lives every moment of his life like he was trapped in ‘The Blair Witch Project.'”) Everything is an existensial threat to him. He’s so perpetually terrified that I’m surprised he doesn’t spend all day cowering in his room hiding under the bed. (Oh, wait, never mind. There are monsters there.)
In truth, you know who he is? He’s the political version of Crazy Ralph, the loony old guy from “Friday the 13th” who rants at everyone not to go “Camp Blood” because “It’s got a death curse!” and “You’re all doomed!”
Except that Lindsey’s not nearly as credible.
flounder
Graham lied to the Supreme Court once, so that has to get him a few percentage points in the GOP Primaries.
Baud
@MomSense:
I agree, but Anne Laurie loves to talk about them. :-P
gf120581
@Iowa Old Lady: “I Don’t Know” seems to be emerging as Walker’s campaign slogan.
If he keeps up like this, he may be less the next Tim Pawlenty and more the next Rick Perry in terms of how he flames out.
Kropadope
@jl: That’s bizarre. The link should go to a comment by SatanicPanic the other day trying to hold the Clinton administration accountable for the Rwanda genocide.
What I was trying to get at is that the line of reasoning you’re attributing to Lindsey Graham sounds a lot like the foundational reasoning behind liberal interventionism. It has adherents here and many adherents among Democratic politicians, including one currently deemed to be a prohibitive front-runner for presidential nomination.
Waldo
Does anyone (other than his bestie McCain) think this is a good idea? I mean, as crazy as the rest of the field looks, you can at least understand the appeal of most of them — Rand has the libertarian thing covered; Christie is the unapologetic bully; Perry is an inspiration to stupid people everywhere etc.
With no detectable charisma and no shtick to call his own, Lindsey may be the saddest clown in the whole damn car.
Mike J
@raven: ?
Mike J
@Iowa Old Lady:
When Walker was elected I think he took the name Pope Madison the first.
Zinsky
If this little weenie had any courage, he would go to Iowa and announce, “My intention is to be the first gay man to be president.” I would cheer him! I might even vote for him! But he won’t. He is gutless. He is craven. And he can’t even face up to who he really is and admit it to the world! Pathetic.
raven
@Mike J: I’m sorry, it was Mike in NC that commented on the film “Gift Horse” earlier.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
There was one poll that showed support for intervention against ISIS bumping up above 50%, an emotional reaction to the beheadings. Ed Schultz and Tweety are both on board. Tweety at least will be distracted by the Oscars
mdblanche
@Cervantes:
And yet we still don’t seem to be taking him seriously.
Be careful you don’t pull a muscle throwing an assumption that big around.
jibeaux
I’m not saying he’s gay, but I do have it on good authority that Lindsey’s a really big fan of Spoleto. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
So as to the open thread part, does anyone have an (informed) opinion as to the security of Google forms for a questionnaire? The other option is a cloud-based service that provides a portal for communications.
Villago Delenda Est
@Snarki, child of Loki: Well, that or kill your pet rabbit, one of the two.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
OT: French 75s and scrabble here Chez Q. tonight. We’re home, and snowed in, so what’s a bottle of Champagne and some gin, lemon juice and simple syrup for Saturday night libations?
Mike in NC
@raven: Yes, after WW2 it was a shame nobody thought it worth saving a flush-deck four stack destroyer when we have so many other museum ships.
MomSense
@Baud:
But we aren’t exactly driving the media narrative here at balloon-juice. We pretty much comment or point and mock at the stories that are already being discussed.
I watched the State of the Union, the bread bag response, and some of the media coverage. The narrative that emerged was pretty much that the president had some good ideas, sensible ideas even, but the political climate blah blah blah means that nothing is likely to be passable. It is this casual acceptance that as a nation we can no longer do basic things that I find infuriating. We are not even talking about dealing with climate change, education, etc.
I’m seriously considering relocating to another state–and this is not an easy decision for me to make. What is happening in Maine right now is disastrous. I honestly do not see a future here for myself or my kids.
I guess I’m just beyond disgusted with the current political situation and much as I might like to start a media revolution–I am just one person who already works ridiculous hours and can’t keep up with all the things on my plate as it is.
My 11 year old read about the NASA report on the mega drought expected for 2050 and he has already read quite a bit about climate change, ocean acidification,etc. Last week he told me that he didn’t think it would be right for him to have children and that his generation should plan to be the one that turns the lights out on the way out. He actually said something more like his generation will have to deal with our species managing the extinction phase but the meaning is the same.
What does one say to that? He’s not wrong. We fart around with EBOLA ISIS BENGHAZI PRESIDENT DIDN’T SAY ISLAMIC TERRORISM BRIAN WILLIAMS LIED ABOUT BEING SHOT AT JEB! WALKER RAND KOCH. It’s fucking pathetic. Of course this post is a complete bummer so I will probably walk my dog, do a couple loads of laundry, and find something pleasant to watch on tv.
mdblanche
@FlipYrWhig: SC’s traditional role in the GOP primaries is to be the establishment firewall where insurgencies go to die. The winner there won the nomination every year. Until 2012. Gingrich’s win there bought the klown kar kavalcade another month or two before Romney finally won by default. If you’re right and this is to target a non-Jeb, that suggests the establishment has not recovered its faith in its firewall.
raven
@Mike in NC: Have you seen this book?
eta When they converted the Crosby to an APD they took out the portholes. Somehow my old man got one and kept it in the tiny locker each sailor had for the entire war. He left it to me when he died but my stepmom hasn’t given it to me yet. I do have the stadimeter and it’s in perfect condition.
Villago Delenda Est
@Iowa Old Lady: Oh, dear, the press isn’t making a fuss over Jimmy Hoffa’s criticism of the utter scum that are the Tea Party, and Scott Walker is upset.
Mike in NC
Graham Cracker is just a flavor of the week to the Villagers. What’s the latest on the Netanyahu visit? If he schedules some time in a quiet room with JEB, Sheldon Adelson, and Shelly’s checkbook, we can assume they’ll talk about the liberation of Tehran in 2018.
Omnes Omnibus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): You’re firing cannons and eating some odd food from Pennsylvania? I haz a confuzzled.
FlyingToaster
@Baud: HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!
Brady plays in New England — I think he works with a different pantheon.
Omnes Omnibus
@MomSense: The sense that we can no longer do big, good things that has taken hold is depressing to me. Of course we can, if we just fucking decide to do it. There are times when I want to grab the collective consciousness by the lapels and give it a good shake.
Ripley
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): French 75s, love ’em; they seem to be one of those Lost Cocktails making a subtle comeback. Careful though: they’re named for WWII heavy artillery, and I’ve had ’em hit me just that hard.
Try a Sazerac cocktail sometime if you like the unique in libations. Rye in an absinthe-coated frosted tumbler, twist of lemon. I prefer them over crushed ice.
Iowa Old Lady
@Villago Delenda Est: Yeah, when I read crap like this, I see what MomSense is talking about in #61,
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m right there with you. I want to run around like Cher in Moonstruck, slap people, and tell them to snap out of it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ripley: A slight nit to pick: the 75 was not a heavy artillery piece, but it is iconic as it is the first truly modern gun.
SiubhanDuinne
@Iowa Old Lady:
I really have to agree with Scott Walker on this, though, and I didn’t think I would ever type those words. But here, he’s right:
Mind you, if I had written that article, I would have left out “his voice calm and firm.” That’s getting dangerously close to wind-chapped cheeks and rippling biceps.
Baud
@MomSense:
I know it’s frustrating. But I believe the worst thing we can do is convince ourselves that things can never improve. A lot of the problems we have now is because of that attitude. And it does become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
jl
@jl: OK. SatanicPanic has to defend his comment if it you think it was silly.
I think probably there are legitimate cases where both left, right and center politicians can be criticized for the consequences of not doing something or other, and can imagine cases where they can reasonably be charged responsibility for deaths because they didn’t do something rather than did.
But, I was just talking about what Lindsay Graham said during one of his unhinged harangues on Schieffer’s show a few weeks ago.
Edit: That is, I would not hold sane GOPers (if there is one to be found anymore) responsible for stuff Graham said. Dole or HW Bush maybe come to mind, but they are too old to be relevant.
raven
@Baud: don’t mean nuthin
Iowa Old Lady
@SiubhanDuinne: You mean the question was the real problem. That’s true, though I think Walker invited questions like this when he refused to distance himself from Guiliani.
It’s all fluff though. Stupid stuff we spend time on while real problems are ignored. It’s what Congress has devolved into too. Republicans are good at symbolic votes and “sending a message” but not governing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: I agree. The proper response when we get a half a loaf is to take a moment to be happy about getting some progress and then start working on getting the next quarter of the loaf. Bitching about lack of perfection and how it’s all pointless anyways is less than helpful.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@SiubhanDuinne: He’d have a point, but the only reason he was asked this question is because he refused to speak up about Giuliani’s nonsense, about ten days after stating his intention to “punt” on whether or not he believed in evolution.
elftx
Fkng Adelson is throwing money at whomever will back the restoring the wire act and Graham is one. Adelson’s greed is for his brick and mortar casinos..has nothing to do with terrorists or minors playing poker online. And of course Murka’s onward christian soldiers.
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: This one of the cases where I don’t give a Republican the benefit of a doubt – especially a Republican I have seen as up close and personal as Walker.
MomSense
@Baud:
I know. I’m tough and no matter how pissed off or discouraged I feel, I’m always the person who shows up for all the phone banking shifts. Competing with the moneyed interests is exhausting, though. I’m not sure we can sustain the level of activity required to counter it.
Mike in NC
@raven: Thanks, I do have that and several others books on the class.
Omnes Omnibus
@MomSense: Of course we can. There was a previous gilded age. It was followed by Progressivism and eventually the New Deal.*
*I recognize that I am glossing over the Depression with this comment, but I try to remember that the arc of history is long….
raven
@Mike in NC: I’ve never met anyone who knew the first thing about these ships. How did you become interested?
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
@MomSense:
I also disagree that we (liberals) don’t have any control over the media narrative. I don’t like the media, but I have to admit that the right gives them more to report on.
Roger Moore
@Ripley:
Actually, the 75mm was used in WWI, and it was the lightest general field artillery. It was a groundbreaking weapon, being the first piece that was designed for a modern indirect fire role.
Omnes Omnibus
@Roger Moore: Christ, I missed being pedantic about the WWI thing. Damn.
ETA: Every modern towed gun is a descendent of the 75.
raven
@Mike in NC: Have you seen the model of the Crosby a fellow made for me?
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: Where are the four stacks?
Kropadope
@jl: Well, if my link had worked you might have been able to progress to see how the liberal interventionist choir piped up after the fact. The zeal with which they asserted that we have to prevent these genocides and intervene in these high-fatality conflicts, one would think there was a military intervention in recent memory that successfully prevented the murder of millions of innocents and didn’t leave the U.S. in a weaker diplomatic position.
Eh, I may just be cranky because you reminded me of a several-hours-long conversation I had where maclaren was a principle participant.
P.S. You replied to your own comment. Talk about shoddy linkage.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes, we have this redleg in the house!
SiubhanDuinne
@Iowa Old Lady:
Yes. It’s a ridiculous and offensive question. I think Walker was quite right to call the reporter on it — although I can see that his “Gee, I dunno” stance might well be interpreted as “Obama could be a Christian, who knows?, but he could be a Mooslim.”
Baud
@Kropadope:
How’s your therapy going?
Southern Beale
Apparently Scott Walker said today he’s not sure if Obama is a Christian.
That’s so retro.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Mike in NC: SmartyPants says that the next couple of weeks are going to be very interesting:
The Teabaggers have trouble pushing more than one thing at a time. Having 3-4 happening at once will seemingly lead to lots of interesting reactions…
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: That was after conversion to an APD. She was DD-164 before and APD 17 after. They took out 2 boilers and put in births for troops. She would carry about 160 grunts and had the four LCPR’s for landing. These ships were used for landing troops throughout the war but there were only 34 of them. Later in the war brand new APD’s were produced and they, obviously, were much more modern.
raven
@Villago Delenda Est: And a genuine ammo humper as well!
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: Question: If you have the capability of preventing harm to innocents, do you have any obligation to do so? If so, under what circumstances?
Liberal interventionism is based on the idea that the answer to those questions is “yes, if you can do more good than harm.”*
*Simplified a shitload for Saturday evening conversation.
Pogonip
@Zinsky: I believe James Buchanan has already been the first gay president, but the post of “first gay president in over a hundred years” is still open.
Kropadope
@Baud: Obamacare doesn’t cover that.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: Sure it does; you just bought the wrong plan on the exchange.
Pogonip
@MomSense: Wpyldn’t another state in the U. S. have the same problems? Governance on the national, and increasingly the state level, has become impossible. Not that I blame anyone for wanting to leave Maine. considering the weather, but don’t expect much better governance anywhere else.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: the question is where you draw the line, for most people. The UN’s “shoot back but don’t shoot first” approach certainly didn’t work in Rwanda.
Mike J
@Pogonip: I wouldn’t vote for Graham even if he was a native American lesbian.
His gayness or lack thereof is no reason to vote for or against him. He would be worse for gay people than any Democrat. He would be worse for straight people than any Democrat. He would be worse for dogs, cats, horses, and ferrets than any Democrat.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Pogonip:
California’s state government is working just fine, thank you. Of course, we were smart enough to put the Democrats in charge after the Republicans nearly drove the state into the ground rather than doubling down on letting Republicans run things.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Of course that is the question. IIRC Kropadope was drawing the line at the US borders. I’ll admit that I am more willing that many of my fellow liberals to try it. What happened in Bosnia while I was a serving officer just a few miles away has had an effect on my views.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): How many years of assholes did you have to deal with first? Don’t be too superior.
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus: Main goal, protect the innocents. Be available in a humanitarian capacity. Accept refugees, help them get safe passage out of a dangerous area if needed. Be prepared to defend your capacity to usher the refugees to safety, but don’t engage in conflict with warring sides.
Let other people have their wars. We can’t prevent every atrocity or buy into every conflict. Sometimes people need to settle their own problems among themselves.
This should allow us to meet any humanitarian objectives while not leaving such a deep footprint in the sand that it’s suddenly all about us.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Omnes Omnibus: It is also iconic as a cocktail that will get you really fucking drunk. But as I noted, we are at home and snowed in (until tomorrow when our driveway is dug out), playing a crossword board game. The cocktail is artillery strength; that I can say!
@Ripley: It may be lost, and it should not be. However it will get its consumers lost right quick. Glad we’re at home. Though the driver never would have tried it out, though I might have.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: You sound like a liberal interventionist.
khead
So, it turns out that Mrs. Khead has “just a virus”. By “just a virus” I mean a virus that caused her to throw up for 18 hours earlier in the week, lose 10+ pounds, and spend Thursday afternoon until tomorrow morning (pretty sure) in the hospital while sucking down ~18 liters(!) of fluids via IV until she was right again.
Of course, that certainly beats the hell out of the gall bladder surgery that I was worried about a few nights ago. I wanted to thank Anne and the other folks that chimed in to share their experiences and ease my worries. We were, uh, a little freaked for a time.
Roger Moore
@Omnes Omnibus:
If you’re talking about the way they’re used, you could leave out the “towed” part. Indirect fire was an epochal innovation.
Omnes Omnibus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Oh, you said Scrabble, not scrapple. My bad. Email me for my recipe for Artillery Punch. “Free your ass and your mind will follow.”
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus: I have insurance through work. I just felt like blaming Obama. That’s how you get your plan changed, right? I saw it on the teevee.
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus: Given that I thought our involvement with ISIS, Libya, Yemen, Iraq, et c. has been far too much, I don’t think so.
Cervantes
@mdblanche:
You think I was making the assumption because I mentioned it? That’s amusing.
Pogonip
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): MomSense and I are hitching the dogs to the sleds and heading west!
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m generally a hedonistic utilitarian, so you have to weigh each situation differently based on total suffering/pleasure.
Rwanda would have been easy to stop, but then it’d start right up again once you left. Unless you could evacuate a large portion of the country in the mean time. I think we did the right thing in Bosnia. I don’t oppose most air power usage where the bad guys are clearly identifiable, assuming said usage won’t lead to an even worse situation. Ground troops, almost never. Iraq 1 wasn’t terrible, in theory, though a lot of people came back fucked up. Iraq 2 was the worst decision since… I would say vietnam but I’m conflicted there what with the in-laws being refugees who wouldn’t have made it out otherwise.
mainmata
I adhere to the 19th century S. Carolina senator who said: “South Carolina is too small for a republic and too large for an insane asylum.” Senator Huckleberry Butchmeup is a prime example of a flamboyantly hysterical politician who would be, needless to say, a catastrophe as President. Of course, virtually all other GOP candidates also would be catastrophes; this one would just be different as being a closet gay.
Iowa Old Lady
@khead: Whoa. Thank FSM for IV and not throwing up.
raven
@efgoldman: The Swim Dawgs can swim!
jl
@SiubhanDuinne:
” Mind you, if I had written that article, I would have left out “his voice calm and firm.” That’s getting dangerously close to wind-chapped cheeks and rippling biceps. ”
I had to look to see whether that was really in the WaPo news article. WaPo should just merge with the Washington Times and quit the pretend show. Did Walker also hold his chin high and clench his manly jaws? They really cannot help themselves, can they?
I can see why people think Walker is a more skilled politician than many of the other GOP clowns. In this case, he knew how to walk up to the line and stop just before he crossed and then make a valid criticism of our miserable press corps for asking stupid questions. And this was a stupid question. Or has there been some GOPer or talk show pundit questioning Obama’s Christianity recently that I am unaware of? Somebody had already asked Walker for his reaction to the recent Giuliani smears, so why this Christianity question now? Press seemed to just be trolling.
If the press asked useful and needed questions, and threw in this silly stuff, it wouldn’t be as bad. But they obsess over this stuff. It’s easier than honest work.
Omnes Omnibus
@Roger Moore: Indirect fire is a huge thing and the 75 was the first gun that was good at it, but it was the primary way that artillery was used in WWI. But the technical innovations of 75 were so amazing that anything done by anything else afterwards was derivative.
@Kropadope: No, you just drew your line in a different place.
@efgoldman: Oddly that is not too far from my recipe.
Roger Moore
@SiubhanDuinne:
That’s exactly what it’s supposed to be. He’s trying to split the difference between the crazies, who want him to denounce Obama as a secret Muslim, and the business Republicans, who want him to talk about policy. If he really wanted to criticize the question, he should have said straight out that he cares more about Obama’s bad policies than his religious beliefs, but that would anger the Christianists who are sure Obama is a secret Muslim.
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, that whole part about engaging in a military campaign to hasten the end of and/or determine the outcome of these conflicts is a mere trifle.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Rwanda is tough for me. I don’t know if we could have helped. Bosnia, I think we could have and I would have stayed in the army to go there.
Major Major Major Major
@Kropadope: so you wouldn’t flip the switch to redirect the train, as it were.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: You admitted to the concept. OTOH, if I misinterpreted, I apologize. You are an isolationist in theory, then?
Pogonip
@efgoldman: Depends on how far west you’re talking about. Between the ocean and me is a whole lot of flat land and then some mountains. However, we will also assemble a team of seals to pull a watersled just in case. You can’t be too prepared.
Kropadope
@Major Major Major Major: I actually think the train/switch dilemma presents very different ethical questions.
jl
@Roger Moore: And that is the way a relatively skilled politician plays it.
I am curious, is there in fact any recent smears about Obama’s religious beliefs that would make such a question relevant? Seems like the question was just trolling to see if they could scare up some political Tiger Beat fodder.
Reporter was thinking, the press got some splash with Giuliani smearing Obama on patriotism and then went racist, let’s try out Walker and see if we can make a splash on the religion. That’s the ticket, let’s troll for that.
mainmata
@SiubhanDuinne: Also, the fact that Scotty says he doesn’t know about Obama’s religion despite it being a huge issue in 2008 and has periodically been in the news since then means that he has been either completely inattentive to national affairs over the last 6 years or is a lying hypocrite. Neither alternative is attractive.
Major Major Major Major
@Kropadope: how about framing an innocent man to stop the violent rioting mob, that might be closer.
Man, I love this area of ethics if you couldn’t tell.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: I actually agree with you about that. Nevertheless, my question is, if you think that you can make things better by stepping in and you have the capacity to do so, what should you do?
jl
@mainmata: ‘ Neither alternative is attractive. ‘
I agree, but it is skilled, at least compared to other current and past GOP clowns, like Rudi.
raven
@Major Major Major Major: Well the sheriff let Boo Radley go even though he knew he done it.
Pogonip
I associate King Arthur with winter. It never seemed right to read the legends in decent weather. Quite a few of my ancestor’s hailed from Art’s part of the world; maybe it’s ancestral memory of sitting around the hearth listening to Arthur tales. Then again, another bunch of my ancestors never heard of Art till the palefaces brought their Arthur stories over here. At any rate, having finished the Cornwell version and still being mostly sidelined, I believe I’ll reread T. H. White. That one’s pretty long, maybe by the time I finish “The Once and Future King” this current and miserable winter will finally be coming to an end!
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus: I wouldn’t say I’m an isolationist. Commerce and international cooperation are too important.
I just believe that our government shouldn’t be sticking its nose in where it doesn’t belong and that humanitarian missions should leave a very light footprint. If guns are a major part of your humanitarian mission, you’re doing it wrong.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: I know that what it actually measures is degrees of perceived culpability given different framings of inaction, but this is a blog comment thread ;)
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: Done what? Bob Ewell fell on his knife.
jl
@Kropadope:
” P.S. You replied to your own comment. Talk about shoddy linkage. ”
At least it went to the correct thread. Linkage is not always like horseshoes, but in this case… maybe it is.
Major Major Major Major
@Kropadope: I think I’d generally agree with that, though note my above preference for bombs, as distinct from guns.
raven
@jl: I put a floor shifter in to do away with the linkage.
MomSense
@Pogonip:
The first thing to realize about Maine is that we are geographically a big state. We don’t have enough people to support the infrastructure and we are the oldest state in the country.
In the first LePage administration with a Republican legislature we cut income taxes (of course disproportionately favoring the wealthy) and changed the revenue sharing plan so that municipalities had to fund more of their budgets. This resulted in massive teacher layoffs and property tax increases.
Now the plan is to cut income taxes even more and to further erode state funding for municipalities (all in the name of local control). The proposals are to increase sales taxes and fees and to add things like legal fees to the sales taxable column. They are also trying to end tax exemptions for non-profits which will really harm a number of social services agencies. If you are an agency that runs group homes for people with disabilities, the homes themselves will now be subject to property taxes. Oh and the people who receive social services like direct support services will be reevaluated and will then only be evaluated every three years. There is an assumption that people with disabilities are somehow bilking the system by getting too much assistance. Agencies are planning for massive cuts to employees and services.
We are one of the states that opted not to expand Medicaid so rural hospitals are already in big trouble.
Our economy is not growing and we are an outlier compared to the rest of New England. I think there are a number of states that are in much better shape than ours so I’m looking at the rest of New England to see if a move is possible.
Major Major Major Major
Then of course there’s the old “kidnapping a nameless drifter to use as an organ farm” version of the question…
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: I think you should be very careful about exerting military force. OTOH, projecting a shitload of military force in Bosnia would have saved people’s lives. And we stood by. And let people die. I think that was unforgivable – and as I noted above, it probably colors my views. I wanted to go there and save people and my government didn’t let me do it.
mai naem mobile
Why the fuck does the GOP give a shit about Obamas patriotism or his religion? Do the fools realize he’s not running in ’16 or are they so stupid that they’ve bought into their own garbage about Obama tearing up the constitution and running for a thied term? How is this even a fucking issue at this point? Who do they think is going to buy that Hillary is unpatriotic or not a Christian? Idiots.
Mike in NC
@raven: Been building model ships for 40 years and served on a destroyer and frigate while on active duty.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@khead: Oh I hope Mrs. khead is right as rain soon..
Kropadope
@Major Major Major Major:
If would produce a clearly better outcome, I think I would.
Absolutely not.
I remember a good one from Mass Effect. Inbound missiles heading for two points in a far-flung colony. One heading for the colonists themselves, one heading for the facility that provides their food and water. There is little commercial interest in the area and the facility can not be rebuilt. Which missile do you stop?
Mike in NC
@raven: Nice. I have one of those in the stash.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike in NC: FWIW one of my (two) uncles had a plank from the Bainbridge.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: I think it’s different when it’s already a failed state with no future. Like in the Balkans. I agree with you about that, we could have done more. Rwanda was a genocide *and* a revolution–by the majority no less… tricky situation.
raven
@Mike in NC: Oh wow! That was a resin kit I got and I quickly realized I was way over my head as far as building it. I looked for a year and finally found a guy on Ship Models.com and he built it for me for nothing!
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Omnes Omnibus: Dude. i don’t have your email, but ask Anne Laurie for mine. It’s fairly pseudonymous (though I obviously trust you) and you can use a burner email to send me your artillery punch (if you are worried). M. Q and I were in different states when we used to- rarely – have this much alcohol “together” on a Saturday night.
MomSense
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
If you get the new job, I will happily take your old job!
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Age-wise, I doubt that you get the emotional impact that Bosnia had on me. We could have stopped all of it by walking in and we didn’t.
Major Major Major Major
@Kropadope: as I recall, infrastructure takes priority over lives in that universe. But it’s been a while. Nobody to eat the food, or people with no food to eat?
With my non-total recall of the games… If the planet can be evacuated and the people housed elsewhere, destroy the infrastructure. If not, let them get mercifully blown to bits instead of worldwide war and slow starvation. Then take the food machines for somewhere more central.
MomSense
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
I do champagne, cognac, lemon juice and simple syrup.
Veuve Clicquot if possible.
JPL
@khead: Good news. Hopefully she rests and regains her strength.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: Fair enough. I had a great social studies teacher while it was happening and I’ve since read a lot, mostly about rural areas and set after Sarajevo became a death trap.
What I meant to say earlier was that We did the right thing by doing *anything*–that any intervention was right. Some righter than others.
Kropadope
@Major Major Major Major: If I remember correctly, I let it hit the colonists. In my mind it was a question of the survivors. My way there were fewer survivors, but they could at least rebuild. Having more survivors who would subsequently starve to death didn’t really appeal to me.
Granted, there were no real people involved, which allowed me to take the presented facts at face value. It was the right academic answer.
I don’t know if I would do the same in real life. There I could have attempted to arrive at a different outcome than the presented options.
Omnes Omnibus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): This is a good version. More or less saves me some typing. Make adjustments to fit your taste.
Major Major Major Major
@Kropadope: I agree, based on the relocation question’s answer being “no.”
MomSense
@efgoldman:
You are in RI? I could be persuaded to move there.
Kropadope
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah, I edited my comment to begin addressing that question (I was running out of edit time). But my in-real-life answer would involve letting the facility go and then exerting a lot of personal and political effort devoted to saving the colonists before they starve.
ETA: Relocation was not an option in the game. This was presented to you at the missile launch site and you never encountered the colonists yourself.
Major Major Major Major
@Kropadope: have you played fallout? I love the question of what to do with FEV.
Kropadope
@Major Major Major Major: I did play Fallout. Don’t recall what FEV refers to. (Fallout got one play-through, while each Mass Effect got at least two).
Major Major Major Major
@Kropadope: Forced Evolution Virus. Depends on what holotapes you read, if any.
Kropadope
@Major Major Major Major: I read most of the material I found, though it was too long ago for me to remember. Decisions in Fallout (and the very similar Elder Scrolls games) did not seem as consequential. All I remember is that I didn’t let the talking computer at the end do what it wanted.
Roger Moore
@Omnes Omnibus:
I wouldn’t take California’s example as feeling superior so much as demonstrating how solvable our problems really are. For years, people talked about California as being this ungovernable place that was on the verge of collapse. Now we’re well run and seem to be positioned to deal with our problems. It didn’t take decades of struggle to get there. All it took was electing a governor who wanted to work with the legislature and removing the ability of an obstructionist minority to block the budget. Once the government was firmly in control of people who wanted to solve our problems and had a reasonable plan for how to do so, the problems got solved pretty quickly.
I don’t think that’s unique to California. We know what our problems are as a country, and we have reasonable ideas about how to solve most of them. We just aren’t doing it because there’s an obstructionist block that’s preventing us from implementing those solutions. If we can get a working majority that’s actually interested in fixing the country, we can get a lot done in short order.
Omnes Omnibus
@Roger Moore: The comment was aimed at the particular commenter, not Californians in general.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: @Omnes Omnibus: Are you guys discussing this based on game results?
Anne Laurie
@khead: I’m glad it was “just” a virus, and I’m glad Mrs. Khead is recovering even better!
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: we’re in abstract ethics territory now.
H.E. Wolf
@Pogonip:
Winter Solstice, Camelot Station. By the late John M. Ford.
http://thegreenbelt.blogspot.com/2006/12/winter-solstice-camelot-station.html
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Omnes Omnibus:
Roger said what I was planning to but, hey, I guess I drew the short straw as the person you’ve decided to be an asshole to tonight.
Villago Delenda Est
@mai naem mobile:
Yes, idiots.
Their base.
The racist scum that constitutes the Teabaggers.
Ryan
Sorry Lindsey, too many people have seen Jon Stewart’s impersonation of you for you to become Prez.
Denali
@Pogonip,
Just finished The Once and Future King. Why did I know know about this great read before? It is long, but so is Harry Potter and it has magicans too!
Matt
Neither have I, Sen. Graham. The difference is that you’re worried about a handful of camel jockeys on the other side of the world, and I’m worrying about YOUR CONSTITUENTS and their piles of gunz’n’Bibles…