Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.

Cancel the cowardly Times and Post and set up an equivalent monthly donation to ProPublica.

Let me file that under fuck it.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Second rate reporter says what?

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

The willow is too close to the house.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

One way or another, he’s a liar.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

T R E 4 5 O N

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread: War Correspon-Dense

Open Thread: War Correspon-Dense

by | 181 Comments

This post is in: ,

Jiminy O’Grift, The Third Of His Name:

Please tell me it’s all about Huckleberry Graham.  Cause in my head I’m totally hearing Lindsey ooze out Frank Underwood lines in a molasses drawl while sending drones after Jimbo there.  It’s like Enemy of the State, only the lingerie isn’t for Will Smith’s wife.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

181Comments

  1. 1.

    Eric U.

    I assume he’s afraid of the Unitarian Jihad or the FEMA death squads. Because I’m sure it’s earth shattering news. Given the most recent story I’m familiar with, I would speculate but it would probably get me thrown in moderation

  3. 3.

    Iowa Old Lady

    I see some Rs saying shutting down DHS would be fine because its employees have to keep working without pay. So, that whole slavery thing is still fine with them?

  4. 4.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Reminds me of a moment in the late 90s, Drudge was at CPAC or something similar, teasing out the huge story that was going to bring down the Clinton administration. Drudge breathlessly informed his audience and the CSPAN cameras there to capture this moment of historic importance, that witnesses were being moved to “safe houses” in advance of his earth-shattering revelations, which turned out to be… BILL CLINTONS LOVE CHILD!

    In 1999, the Drudge Report announced that it had viewed a videotape which was the basis of a Star Magazine and Hard Copy story. Under the headline, Woman Names Bill Clinton Father Of Son In Shocking Video Confession, Drudge reported a videotaped “confession” by a former prostitute who claimed that her son was fathered by Bill Clinton. The Report stated, “To accuse the most powerful man in the world of being the father of her son is either the hoax of a lifetime, or a personal turmoil that needs resolution. Only two people may know that answer tonight.” The claim turned out to be a hoax.[85]

    ETA: this of course only confirmed the Politico Boys in their conviction that “drudge rules our world!”

  6. 6.

    Citizen_X

    According to Wonkette, it’s about his secret (secret!) recordings of black people saying that they don’t like Al Sharpton.

    EARTH-SHAKING STUFF, PEOPLE!

    Why his life is in danger from this, I have no clue. Maybe he got that idea from the Bill O’Reilly School of Hotel-Based Combat Correspondence.

  7. 7.

    FlyingToaster

    Relax. Jimmy O’Keefe is trying to find another way to garner attention.

    Like everything else he says, it’s either a big fat nothingburger or evidence of his latest Class E felony.

  8. 8.

    MattF

    Ugh. I’m now feeling curious about something O’Keefe is going to publish. Don’t want this feeling.

  9. 9.

    Amir Khalid

    I find the Twitter comments … most interesting. I wonder how many of those commenters are, as the English football pundits say, extracting the Michael?

  10. 10.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Citizen_X: According to Wonkette, it’s about his secret (secret!) recordings of black people saying that they don’t like Al Sharpton.

    A secret! tape of Larry Wilmore’s first show? Hang on to your hats!

  11. 11.

    Jim C.

    Funny my first (admittedly evil) thought when I saw that tweet was to say, “Please god let his life be in danger.”

  13. 13.

    bemused

    Like Giuliani, O’Keefe craves being the center of attention above all else. O’Keefe hasn’t been in the news for quite awhile so whatever he has cooked up, it’s sure to be wildly harebrained and disgusting.

  14. 14.

    JPL

    Has Hillary been sleeping in the White House again?
    BTW.. The view covered Columba Bush’s shopping spree, including the one abroad that she didn’t inform customs about. It’s a big nothing and Nicolle Wallace said she is a wonderful person who raised three well grounded children. Now I am not about to criticize her parenting style but not all her children have escaped without some struggles.

  17. 17.

    Mike in NC

    In a just world O’Keefe and D’Souza would be sharing a prison cell and trying to avoid the skinheads in the shower room.

  18. 18.

    The Moar You Know

    We have a story we’re going to release this coming week and I’ve never thought about this before but I am afraid for my life on this one.

    If only this were actually true.

  19. 19.

    Ryan

    The horror, having to talk to brown and black people! At least, those who aren’t his friend(s). I for one can certainly understand how fearful he must have been.

  20. 20.

    gene108

    Please tell me it’s all about Huckleberry Graham. Cause in my head I’m totally hearing Lindsey ooze out Frank Underwood lines in a molasses drawl while sending drones after Jimbo there. It’s like Enemy of the State, only the lingerie isn’t for Will Smith’s wife.

    I really don’t understand why liberals feel the need to stereotype Graham as being a closeted homosexual, as well as Michelle Bachman’s husband.

    Doesn’t help removing the stigma that homosexuality is somehow both different and unacceptable, in the sense that it is meant to be mocked.

  21. 21.

    greennotGreen

    I don’t want O’Keefe’s life to be in danger.

    I don’t want him to be killed.

    I don’t want him to be a martyr.

    I want him to be forgotten.

  24. 24.

    greennotGreen

    @gene108: I think it’s the hypocrisy, although since Graham hasn’t, that I know of, focused on enforcing institutionalized homophobia, it shouldn’t really apply to him.

  28. 28.

    Zandar

    @gene108:

    Graham deserves to be mocked for many things.

    His sexual identity is not one of them.

    His constant homophobic, racist, misogynist policy issues, voting record, and proposed legislation I will ding him on every time. But I don’t play “holier than thou” with the peanut gallery.

  30. 30.

    GxB

    @The Moar You Know: Well, he’s not lying. A pencil necked twerp like him – poster child for backpfeifengesicht – could have his life ended by a stiff breeze, let alone the just deserts for any one of his douchey publicity plays.

  32. 32.

    gene108

    @greennotGreen:

    I think it’s the hypocrisy

    Unless you’ve invented an actual working model of Gaydar, there’s no fool proof way to tell who is gay and who is not, but plenty of folks rush to judgment for their own reasons.

    There’s no way to call out the hypocrisy unless someone outs themselves.

    @Zandar:

    So who’s getting the lingerie, if it isn’t Will Smith’s movie-wife?

  33. 33.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @FlyingToaster:

    Like everything else he says, it’s either a big fat nothingburger or evidence of his latest Class E felony.

    Perhaps at long last it’s his E ticket to oblivion? Hard not to root for the fulfillment of his own breathless rhetoric on this one.

  34. 34.

    Augie

    @Spinwheel: Jesus, it didn’t take long for stalker spinwheel to appear. “You should be removed immediately.”

    What is your endgame, Spinwheel? Zandar buries his face in his hands, says “Spinwheel’s right. I’m an asshole. I have no business blogging.” Gives up writing for balloon-juice. Gives up his own blog. Quits all discourse, halts all self-expression.

    Spinwheel smiles and says “my work is done. I win again.”

    Spinwheel, seek help. Get a hobby. Build model airplanes, fly a kite or find a girlfriend.

  38. 38.

    Mike in NC

    @Zandar: Lindsey Graham-Cracker feels a constant need to pander to the South Carolina wingnuts that elected him. You know, the same folks that thought Strom Thurmond and Jim Demint might not be extreme enough to sit in the US Senate.

    His “presidential exploratory committee” is a huge joke in and of itself.

  41. 41.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @gene108: It’s because the demographic that Lindsey counts on to be his base also is unspeakably homophobic as a matter of course.

    This is a pretty huge anomaly that makes one wonder what exactly is going on here.

  43. 43.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Spinwheel: You are still dogshit. Your basis for calling Zandar a “homophobe” is specious, at best; however, it’s well established that you are vile racist scum.

  47. 47.

    Buddy H

    @TR: Seriously, that’s his earth-shattering story that has put his life in danger.

    Well, yes, since he believes that black people are violent, murderous thugs, then yes, he believes his life is in danger. His logic tells him if he dares to criticize Sharpton, his life will be in danger. His racism drips from every pore in his body, while he loudly proclaims “I am not a racist.”

    Like Nixon: “I am NOT a crook.”

  49. 49.

    Buddy H

    Here’s my question: Does O’Keefe have a job? Does he get up every morning whether he feels like it or not and go to some warehouse or office or factory and put in his 8+ hours for a paycheck?

    I don’t know much about O’Keefe. Who pays him? How does he pay his rent/mortgage or whatever? I find myself wondering that about alot of blowhards. Where do they find the time?

    wingnut welfare?

  51. 51.

    SatanicPanic

    @gene108: I kind of agree, there shouldn’t be anything inherently funny about a man who… I don’t know, talks effeminately? (Not sure how to phrase that). Maybe Graham just talks like that, and then what’s the joke?

    ETA- or maybe he’s in the closet, but then who cares? Graham is a warmonger, but he doesn’t come off as Jesse Helms either. Just don’t see the point.

  52. 52.

    EconWatcher

    I was recently skimming National Review Online (yeah, I know) and ran across several articles from the last few months suggesting that Sarah Palin may not be on the level, that she may be–brace yourself–out for personal gain, rather than furthering the cause of true conservatism. Yeah, I’m serious, it took ’em til late 2014 to figure that out.

    Interestingly, the same articles said she had been unfairly criticized in the past. Um, aren’t they conceding the critics were right, and therefore not unfair?

  55. 55.

    SatanicPanic

    @Villago Delenda Est: That’s true that Graham voters probably include a lot of homophobes, but what if Graham is in the closet? If he comes out they’ll go “oh damn, we can’t vote for him anymore”. It’s only Graham who would be taking a hypocritical position, not his voters.

  58. 58.

    jonas

    It would probably be more of a story if he actually found some black people willing to go on the record saying how awesome Sharpton is.

  61. 61.

    Kropadope

    @Iowa Old Lady: Maybe it’s because of when I grew up, but it seems to me that everyone is making fun of everyone for everything nowadays. I think of shows like South Park and Chapelle’s Show and many, many others that didn’t care a whit for whom they insulted. I and many in my age cohort grew up watching these things that broke taboos and pissed off the language police.

    Now tell me, do you think the younger generations are (a) more (b) just as (or c) less inclusive of and respectful to historically marginalized groups?

  63. 63.

    David in NY

    Nothingburger, as it turns out.

    But take a look at the things James’s twitter fan are hoping for — Obama’s connection with the Muslim Brotherhood etc. — a true measure of the fever swamp. Perhaps someone else could catalogue them, would be a good laugh.

  64. 64.

    John

    @Citizen_X: His life is in danger because BLACK PEOPLE! Don’t you understand? The BLACK PEOPLE don’t want their secrets revealed! Why, just saying “Sharpton” three times in a darkened bathroom will summon a Crip death squad. Don’t you see the danger in even mentioning the name Sharpton in a negative context in public? Think of all the mysterious deaths of FOX News personnel! BLACK PEOPLE are out to get you!

    Except for that Stacey Dash. She’s nice.

  68. 68.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @SatanicPanic: The thing is, his voters would probably overlook it for just this one case because on every other possible issue, Graham is just peachy with them. They very often make exceptions like that…only the most virulent homophobes among them will stop supporting him.

    You have to remember that they associate “gay” with “liberal” even though it’s utterly ridiculous to do so. Log Cabin Rethugs might be gay, but they’re Rethugs in every other possible way.

  69. 69.

    Betty Cracker

    @gene108: I’ve come to that conclusion too — belatedly and after having mocked Graham, Bachmann, et al, for being closet cases myself many times. I never meant to imply that being gay was something to be ashamed of; it was more about pointing out the irony and hypocrisy of wingnut politicians going after vulnerable people when they themselves are open to bullying by their own twisted standards. But in retrospect, I was wrong. That sort of mockery can be hurtful to people who don’t deserve it, so I try not to go there.

  70. 70.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    I will be very disappointed if it isn’t video of a nude Bill O’Reilly tied to a St Andrew’s Cross being flogged by Michelle Bachmann.

  72. 72.

    Cervantes

    @gene108:

    I really don’t understand why liberals feel the need to stereotype Graham as being a closeted homosexual, as well as Michelle Bachman’s husband.

    Nothing liberal about it, of course. At best, the people who do it simply have nothing better to say — and haven’t thought of keeping quiet until the condition passes.

  73. 73.

    JPL

    OT.. Wonkette headline is about a florist not wanting to serve the gays. I didn’t link to it but that florist needs to put up a sign and say no gays allowed.

  74. 74.

    The Moar You Know

    Seems the big takeaway from this “life-threatening expose” is that Al Sharpton is an asshole.

    Shit, that’s not even news. Anyone that’s met him can and usually will tell you that, unprompted.

    FDR was an asshole. Johnson was the king of the assholes. Bush was a well-known asshole. Hell, I’m sure Obama’s an asshole too. Powerful people usually are.

    The real problem with Sharpton as far as O’Keefe and the rest of his shitball brigade is simply this: Sharpton’s an asshole while fighting for the rights of black folks, he has the unmitigated gall to be pretty good at doing so, and even worse, he’s made money doing it. He’s probably been discourteous to a white guy or two along the way. Quelle horror.

    When Jamie Dimon treats people with respect, and starts fighting for the rights of his fellow board members for free, someone can call the outrage hotline on Sharpton with cause. Not until then.

  76. 76.

    Calouste

    @Citizen_X: Funnily enough, there are also white people who don’t like James O’Keefe III. I don’t even think you have to make secret recordings of that, I’m fairly sure they are out in the open.

  78. 78.

    Botsplainer

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Log Cabin Rethugs might be gay, but they’re Rethugs in every other possible way.

    I’d love to see self-reported issue and party ID cross tabs on polling samples broken down across racial and gender groups in the LGBT community. People being people (and thereby seeking advantage), I’d posit that L, B, T cohorts are going to look liberal, but that G cohorts who happen to be white are going to be somewhat more likely to trend conservative/GOP, especially now that marriage appears to be resolved in their favor.

  81. 81.

    Betty Cracker

    @Spinwheel: I didn’t say jackshit about Zandar, you blithering moron. Please seek help for your unhealthy obsession. Or drown in a pool of your own bile. I really don’t give a shit either way.

  86. 86.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @JPL:

    I read that story and the reason it got ugly was that the florist was happy to take their gay money for almost a decade while they were living in sin, but felt it necessary to lecture them about how they were going to burn in hell once they decided to get married.

    I’m not sure why businesspeople think it’s a great idea to tell longtime customers that they’ve secretly thought for years that they were disgusting sinners who are going to burn in hell. I especially don’t know why said businesspeople are shocked when their now ex-customers are pissed off about it.

  88. 88.

    Geeno

    The humor – such as it is – in the Lindsay Graham/Whats-his-name Bachmann jokes is that they so “stereotypically” resemble something they obviously hate and degrade at every opportunity. It’s that juxtaposition that makes for the humor. Not unlike, but not as funny as, Chapelle’s blind leader of the KKK who was black himself, but didn’t know it. Whether you find such things humorous yourself depends on you and the execution of the joke, but it really is just a bland appeal to humor.

    This lesson in the Principles of Humor was presented by SATSQ with a generous donation from the Clue Foundation.

  91. 91.

    greennotGreen

    Wow! I feel so powerful! I just this second wrote Our Esteemed Bloghost to ask him to consider banning Spinwheel!

    Thank you, Zandar, for anticipating my request.

  92. 92.

    Central Planning

    @Spinwheel:

    You can cover for Zandar’s homophobic slur all you want

    Can you point out the slur? The only thing I think it could be is Huckleberry in the OP. Is that how kids these days are talking?

  94. 94.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Kropadope:

    It’s actually kind of a sad story — the former customer suing thought of the florist as a friend, or at least a close acquaintance, and only found out she thought he was a disgusting sinner when he asked her to do the flowers for his wedding. Which is a pretty sucky way to find out that someone you considered a friend never thought of you as anything more than an open wallet.

  100. 100.

    boatboy_srq

    @Eric U.: @BGinCHI: They printed found Obama’s ANC membership card.

    /snark

    And naturally, O’Keefe’s in fear for his life because only IslamoFascoSoshulists would be mad enough and pack enough heat to chase him through the woods to put a few hollowpoints in him just for being Xtian, Conservatist and Caucasian. Oh, wait…

  103. 103.

    boatboy_srq

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): @Kropadope: Another teaching moment, or the Parable of The Rube Not Grifted. And a good reminder that to the Reichwing (in all its various forms) all Those Other People are merely marks to be made, not people to know and value. Any support LGBTQ people get from wingnuts is due to the presumption that LGBTQ equals more discretionary spending (on things the wingnuts approve of).

  111. 111.

    Mandalay

    @gene108:

    I really don’t understand why liberals feel the need to stereotype Graham as being a closeted homosexual, as well as Michelle Bachman’s husband.

    Well said. People here who claim to know that Graham is “obviously” a homosexual, or that Michelle Bachmann’s husband sets off their infallible gaydar, are jackasses and haters.

    You have to be a complete knuckle dragger to believe that you know anything about a person’s sex life by observing them on TV. Maybe Graham is gay, and maybe he isn’t, but he has repeatedly stated that he is not gay, and despite their best efforts to catch him out, the media have not found any sexual scandal against him after 20 years in Congress. In the absence of anything substantive, it’s no more a worthy topic of discussion than the sexuality of (say) Hillary Clinton or Jeb Bush.

    Those here who think they are so witty by blathering on about “Huckleberry” and and “fainting couches” say far more about their own inadequacies than Graham.

  116. 116.

    Belafon

    @Mandalay: “fainting couches” accurately describes the Republican tendency to be shocked that the Democrats would do something they do.

  117. 117.

    ET

    I just wonder if this is just part of trying to create some hype for what will likely turn out to be nothingburger.

  118. 118.

    monkeyfister

    @JPL: It IS very cool! He’s very talented. Has a song on the Smithsonian Institute’s Woody Guthrie Tribute Album from a couple years ago. Toured with Bela Fleck and with James Taylor as support. Got annoyed with me for dragging everyone I knew in the Lansing Arts Council and the Michigan Music Industry to their shows and pushing them back in the early days, when they just wanted to play for free beer..

    Very talented guy, and very humble.

  119. 119.

    dmsilev

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): Reminds me of a letter I saw once in one of those advice columns. Author wrote something to the effect of “I have a nice young man as a neighbor who was always kind enough to shovel the snow from my chunk of sidewalk as well as his own. Once I learned he was gay, however, I told him that he was going to burn in Hell. Now, for some reason he doesn’t want to shovel my sidewalk any more. Why?”

    Response from the columnist (“Ask Amy”, I think) was basically what you’d expect from a sane person, and was something along the lines of “You told your neighbor you hate him. Why on Earth would you expect him to do you any favors after that?”

  120. 120.

    kindness

    ???
    Please folks, let us not take this blog to the Kevin Drumm world where most the posts are people pissing on one another after trolls succeed in starting a food fight. Makes for awful reading you know.

    re: Mocking Ms Lindsey….well you may feel dirty while others have fun with it but since Ms Lindsey is such a big proponent of the TeaBaggers and pushing their vile crap on the rest of us….well mocking Lindsey as being a closeted gay man is delicious karma for Lindsey delivered by the unwashed masses that still enjoy dick jokes, bathroom humor and the rest of us who are not yet completely civilized. He may not be gay. He may not deserve the mockery. If that is the case I will happily take the bad karma I deserve for laughing at Ms Lindsey. But laugh I will. And I won’t feel bad about it just because I don’t live up to others expectations of what a liberal should act like. Big bad world out there.

  121. 121.

    The Moar You Know

    GG, Zandar, you put up with that psycho’s lunacy for WAY too long.

    I might add I’ve been here since about 2008 and this is the third or fourth banning I’ve seen. Doesn’t happen here a lot. Says a lot for the patience of the commentariat and bloghost.

  123. 123.

    Mandalay

    @Betty Cracker:

    after having mocked Graham, Bachmann, et al, for being closet cases

    But the core issue isn’t avoiding the appearance of mocking people for being gay. It is thinking that it is OK to mock people for their sexuality based on assumptions made without any real evidence. You don’t really “know” that Graham, Bachmann, et al are closet cases at all.

    Lindsay Graham’s situation parallels that of Elena Kagan, except that she is on the left and he is on the right. Like Graham, Kagan has never married, and states that she is not gay. Yet she faced a ton of smearing from the right because she was “obviously” a lesbian. Condolleeza Rice and David Souter faced constant speculation about their sexuality simply because they never married. Why the fuck does anyone even care?

  124. 124.

    SatanicPanic

    Before all us straight people get into a debate about what’s good for gay people, maybe we should ask some gay people what they think? I don’t know, might be a good idea. Kropadope weighed in by saying we’re being too serious. Anyone else?

  125. 125.

    eyelessgame

    I’ll just say: if it’s homophobic to suggest that Huckleberry is a closet case, then it’s anti-Semitic to reference Hitler’s Jewish grandmother.

    …

    Godwin who the what now? He’s already banned, shut up.

  126. 126.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Omnes Omnibus: Perhaps in that it reminds some of us of Charles Pierce’s artful use of the name in “Sen. Huckleberry J. Butchmeup” when he refers to Lindsey Graham (R- large insane asylum).

  127. 127.

    The Moar You Know

    @kindness: Right there with you. If he wants to stop beating on the disadvantaged: the gay, the poor, the non-white…I’ll stop giving him the business.

    Not until then.

  129. 129.

    Keith G

    @Kropadope:

    I’m gay and I think some of you need to lighten up.

    And Clarence Thomas is Black, so if he were to tell Ta-Nehisi Coates to lighten up should I take that as the final word?

    Full disclosure: I too am Gay. I find it an interesting study that folks here and in the greater left culture can reference negative Gay stereotypes while they would never think of, much less get away with, doing the same for ethnic minorities.

  130. 130.

    Howard Beale IV

    BREAKING: George Zimmerman will NOT face Federal charges for the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

  131. 131.

    trollhattan

    @kindness: .
    IMHO it’s in the spirit of hoisting one by one’s own petard. He’s a leader in the political party that this very second is fighting tooth and claw to take away voting rights, take away the right to marry and deny benefits, take away medical coverage, roll back the minimum wage, make coal the national beverage…I’d run out of digits long before I run out of things to enumerate.

    Whatever his proclivities, he knows that as a person of power and prestige means he never has to answer to people like himself, who would shove the powerless version of himself him into a box and throw away the key.

    Fire at will.

  133. 133.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Keith G: I thought it was well established that Graham is gay and that his partner is his chief of staff. An open secret like John Travolta or Kevin Spacey.

    And deserves to be mocked for his hypocrisy. We don’t care that he’s gay; we care that he votes in lockstep with the party that pushes discrimination against gays.

  138. 138.

    Amir Khalid

    @SFAW:
    It’s a more informal German term than “Großmutter”. Dutch is a Germanic language too, so it’s no coincidence that they use the same word. As for the Koreans, I blame the corrupting influence of the West.

  139. 139.

    SFAW

    @Amir Khalid:
    Never heard “Oma” growing up. Actually, only heard it from those German-wannabes. “Grossi” was much more common for us Krauts.

    As for the Koreans, I blame the corrupting influence of the West.

    Maybe Indonesia and Taiwan. Korea I would think not so much.

    ETA: and sstop sshowing off with your doppel s

  140. 140.

    Keith G

    @Steve in the ATL:

    And deserves to be mocked for his hypocrisy. We don’t care that he’s gay; we care that he votes in lockstep with the party that pushes discrimination against gays

    .
    Well then, charge him as a hypocrite as we have charged the hypocracy of chicken hawks like Cheney et. al. Do not charge Graham in a way that splashes off onto others, especially younger gays who cannot defend themselves.

    Justice Thomas, it seems, is a bit of a hypocrite on the topic of the general category of affirmative action. He should be confronted for this, but that confrontation must not take a form referencing stereotypes that splash off onto others.

  141. 141.

    Seanly

    @villageidiocy:

    Uggh, this is our real American exceptionalism: We have a wonderful Constitution and then we toss it to the wind and act like every other terrible country.

  142. 142.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @SFAW:

    FWIW, my friend’s daughters call their German immigrant grandmother “Oma.” Maybe it’s a regional thing? I’m not sure where in Germany she’s from originally — I know she immigrated here after WWII.

  143. 143.

    Amir Khalid

    @SFAW:
    I’m only going by what my Langenscheidt Standard Dictionary tells me.
    ETA: It’s called a scharfes s or s-z.

  144. 144.

    wasabi gasp

    Marcus Bachmann runs a pray-away-the-gay chopshop. Knock yourself out being sensitive to his sexuality.

  145. 145.

    Betty Cracker

    @Mandalay: It’s more complicated than that, I think, but I’m not sure if I can explain it. I’ll try. I don’t “know” that Marcus Bachmann is gay, but I do know he supports extremely harmful quackery to “cure” gayness and that his wife supported anti-gay legislation.

    Those impulses come from the same mindset that produces schoolyard bullies who beat up kids they perceive as gay (whether or not they actually are). So when someone who is actively anti-gay has mannerisms or traits that anti-gay bullies seize on to target others, it’s mighty tempting to point that out.

    I’m not defending it, mind you; as I said, I’ve concluded for myself that it’s wrong. But I can see the rough justice in it that would lead someone who is not anti-gay to go there. It’s sort of like when people use Bobby Jindal’s decidedly un-Bubba-like real first name to “otherize” him. Jindal has thrown in his lot with anti-immigrant psychos, so it’s hard to feel sorry for him. But that doesn’t mean it’s right.

  146. 146.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Mandalay:

    Do you have a credible link to support that claim?

    Of course. Le me direct you to a number of peer-reviewed research papers on the subject.

  147. 147.

    PaulW

    if he’s talking about fearing for his life I bet it’s gonna be about the Clintons, most likely Hillary.

    It’s gonna turn out to be yet another fabricated video/audio clip that will rile up the True Believers and get disproved by 10,000 more honest reporters within an hour of its release.

    I hope to God it’s something slanderous so that somebody WILL sue the SOB into extreme poverty. This sh-t has gotten old even back in Slick Willie’s era.

  148. 148.

    PurpleGirl

    @Amir Khalid: When I was taking German in college, the teacher took a few days to teach us to read Fraktur. She thought it would be good to show us what it looked like because we might see it occasionally in our texts.

  152. 152.

    henqiguai

    @Omnes Omnibus (#151):

    It evoked only Huckleberry Hound for me.

    I’m also aware of a ‘backwoods, mountain holler, countrified hick’ usage; but maybe that’s just where I grew up.

  154. 154.

    Mandalay

    @Betty Cracker:

    I can see the rough justice in it that would lead someone who is not anti-gay to go there.

    Gotcha, but I don’t really see how one can’t mock Graham, Bachmann et al for having certain “mannerisms or traits”, and insist that you are not anti-gay at the same time.

    It reminds me of the “I’m not a racist but…” crowd, who somehow still feel the need to point out that blacks need to pull their pants up, and improve the way they speak, and stop using the N-clang word.

    Graham is certainly a fair target for his policies towards gays, but that is generally true for most Republicans in Congress. He would obviously become a bigger target if he comes out, or is outed, but until then his “mannerisms or traits” have nothing to do with anything.

  156. 156.

    SFAW

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):
    The German side of my family came here before WWI, so maybe it’s temporal.
    @Amir Khalid:

    ETA: It’s called a scharfes s or s-z.

    Ya, das vice ich

    That being said: apparently I’m outnumbered, outgunned, and out-facted by the lot o’ you, so I guess I’ll have to retire to my cave to lick my wounds or whatever.

  157. 157.

    John M. Burt

    So, O’Keefe thinks he may die as a result of his latest “news story”, does he?
    Well, I’m glad he has started to develop a conscience, but please, James, suicide is not the answer.

  158. 158.

    rea

    I actually hope for Graham’s sake that he’s a closeted gay. It would be sad if he made it to age 59 without ever experiencing love, and there has never been a woman in sight with him. I don’t like using it to make fun of him, though.

  160. 160.

    boatboy_srq

    @Mandalay: @Betty Cracker: Weighing in as one of the LGBT contingent – and one that survived a far less accepting period and in a far less accepting place. There’s a long and storied history of Reichwing agitators who live lives remarkably similar to the things they publicly denounce. I draw your attention to Terry Dolan, Ted Haggard, George Rekers and Eddie Long for examples of Gud Upstanding Righteous Xtian Hetrosexuals™ caught doing completely opposite things out of the public eye. Graham, Bachmann (and Schock, as mentioned elsewhere) are publicly similar to these people: Rightwing blowhards, pushing a hate-filled agenda, whose behavior implies something starkly different in private. We shouldn’t knee-jerk condemn snarking about a Reichwingnut’s preferences without admitting that there’s a substantial likelihood that the suspicions are correct – and that it’s the hypocrisy that’s the target not the sexuality.

    Anyone who thinks that this is a dead phenomenon hasn’t browsed DC craigslist or been hit up by someone looking for some NSA hookup before they go home to his/her (cisgendered) spouse (and yes, I have been approached by several guys who wanted exactly that: my block list has grown substantially). There isn’t the same behavior so much on the Left simply because the behaviors aren’t part of the Left’s “Thou Shalt Nots”: it’s pretty OK to be LGBT on the left so people don’t marry for the illusion of respectability and then play on the side. Also note that outside Long, everyone I’ve mentioned is a Caucasian male, which puts them in the most favored demographic, and Long is (was?) clergy and they have their own privilege. What we see is essentially entitled bigots behaving as the privileged exceptions to the very classes of people they are working to oppress – and that deserves all the righteous scorn we can heap on. We shouldn’t need Instagram and Twitter reports of a stealth date with an SO, TSA video footage with the “luggage handler”, or a “death from complications of HIV” obit, to give us permission to poke fun.

    A quarter century ago the debate was over “outing” and whether it was acceptable. Mandalay wants to restrict the Heaping of Scorn to people already outed. It’s a valid position – but it ignores that the closet is a Reichwing construct, that people living in it while attacking those who do not are a special breed of hypocrite, and that the reactionaries have no such qualms when attacking any of us.

  161. 161.

    SFAW

    @John M. Burt:

    but please, James, suicide is not the answer.

    A few thoughts come to mind:
    1) What’s the question?
    2) Maybe, but we won’t know until he tries.
    3) If he’s intent on offing himself, who are we to try to stop him?

  162. 162.

    Betty Cracker

    @Mandalay:

    Gotcha, but I don’t really see how one can’t mock Graham, Bachmann et al for having certain “mannerisms or traits”, and insist that you are not anti-gay at the same time.

    It’s threading a needle and not worth it, IMO, but I think the intent is to fling anti-gay bigotry back in the faces of anti-gay bigots. Just like someone who mockingly calls Jindal “Piyush” instead of “Bobby” might not mean to make fun of Indian names but instead to give a politician who benefits from anti-immigrant sentiment a taste of his own medicine.

    @boatboy_srq: Interesting take — thank you.

  163. 163.

    rea

    @boatboy_srq: “the closet is a Reichwing construct”

    With a fair number of these people, the attraction seems to be to illicit sex–what’s the fun if it’s legal and normal? You might as well be married! So you have married-with-kids “family values” senators getting caught in airport restrooms offering blowjobs . . . and they are quite content with their lives exactly as they are.

    Naturally, these people don’t want gay relations normalized–that might ruin their sex lives.

  164. 164.

    kindness

    The PC thing….see, in my world people being gay or straight or bi isn’t hurtful, cruel or inconsiderate. That’s because there is no negative connotation to being gay, straight, bi or what ever.

    Calling out hypocrisy though can be hurtful and cruel. When I make fun of Lindsey I am calling attention to the hypocrisy of the man’s political views and the support he gives to those who would make being gay a negative thing. Saying I suspect Lindsey is a closeted gay man is not denigrating gayness. It is pointing out the impression I have of him being a hypocrite and at the same time using his power to suppress those who are hurt by others because of their sexual choices. Big difference. Now I don’t print that disclaimer with every sentence I write about Ms. Lindsey. Around here and other liberals I expect that notion is implied and understood. Obviously it isn’t understood by some. But that in and of itself isn’t enough to compel me to stop being a little shit about it. In a lot of ways, it isn’t a problem for me. It just means some will think less of me. I’m willing to accept that trade off.

  166. 166.

    gelfling545

    @Calouste: Oh, yeah; to such an extent that if his life ever really is in danger it won’t be because of some breaking story. It will be because he got on someone’s last nerve.

  167. 167.

    henqiguai

    @Mandalay (#154):

    Gotcha, but I don’t really see how one can’t mock Graham, Bachmann et al for having certain “mannerisms or traits”, and insist that you are not anti-gay at the same time.

    You also, apparently, don’t see how mocking someone as exhibiting the very same traits they themselves are viciously condemning can be such an effective response. Suggesting to the big bad uber manly blowhard that he’s just such a little whinny b!tch is often more devastating to his self-esteem than laying him out for being an ass. But then, that’s also the (misspent youth) street thug part of me peaking out…

    Also what Betty said at #162

  168. 168.

    boatboy_srq

    @rea: More often than not I’ve seen this, not as a down-low “forbidden fruit” thrill but as a necessity to maintain social and professional status. The Reichwing values “traditional” status symbols: the big house, the neat lawn, the wife and 2.3 children: anyone lacking those is suspect, so LGBT folks in those cultural strata adhere to the appearances if they want to get ahead. It’s dishonest, and it’s hurtful to everyone: constituents, subordinates, spouse and children, all of whom learn from their example that such behavior is somehow “normal”. And it leaves the same people open to manipulation (“do this personal/professional favor for me or I’ll go to the papers about that time in your office” is not just a juicy scoop for the reporter – it’s a career-killer for whoever gets exposed). They may be content with where they are in their social circle, professional circle and church group, but they’re probably not OK with themselves and their family lives can get very messy.

  169. 169.

    Zinsky

    It isn’t often I advocate violence but in O’Keefe’s case I would gladly make a exception. He better hope he never meets me in a public place, because I will dive headlong (all 6’2″ and 200 lbs.) at his knees from the side and make sure he never walks again.

  170. 170.

    kc

    @henqiguai:

    You also, apparently, don’t see how mocking someone as exhibiting the very same traits they themselves are viciously condemning can be such an effective response.

    You’re going to have to show me an example of Graham “viciously condemning” these traits.

  171. 171.

    Mack

    I was trying to gird up my loins and weigh in here….scary as that can be, but Boatboy_srq pretty much nailed it, and said it far better than I could have. Thanks.

  173. 173.

    henqiguai

    @kc (#171):

    You’re going to have to show me an example of Graham “viciously condemning” these traits.

    I consider being a stanch, vocal, policy endorsing, policy pushing supporter of either the policies or those who would promulgate them to be ‘viciously condemning’ the behavior or trait. Having had to take some quick corners, on issues of racial identity, in my time due to that sort of thing, I now tend to generalize my ~disdain~ for that type of person.

    Obviously, YMMV.

  174. 174.

    John

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Um, so are you implying that Charles Pierce is homophobic? Because you’d be hard pressed to find any evidence of that. Huckleberry is a word that’s been part of American slang for two centuries that used to indicate a small difference, as in the phrase “I’m a huckleberry over your persimmon”, meaning I’m a little bit better than you. Pierce’s use is more a dig at the Southern culture of “gentility” which supposedly emphasized aristocratic virtues of chivalry and politeness while simultaneously enforcing human bondage through horrific violence. And the Butchmeup part is mostly about Graham’s incessant need to stake out the most pro-violence position on any issue. As long, of course, as that violence doesn’t require his participation and is directed at those with a minimum level of melanin.

  175. 175.

    Mandalay

    @boatboy_srq:

    there’s a substantial likelihood that the suspicions are correct

    Sure, but that is also the problem. Once one concedes that it is not known whether Graham and Bachmann are gay at all these mindless attacks fall apart.

    Worse still, they legitimize the right’s attacks on those they have deemed insufficiently manly: Obama in his “mom jeans”, the unmarried Souter as a “goat fucking child molester”, Nate Silver as a “man of very small stature, a thin and effeminate man with a soft-sounding voice”, etc.

    And once the right point to similar attacks from the left on Graham and Bachmann, they can justifiably claim “Both sides do it!”.

    Mandalay wants to restrict the Heaping of Scorn to people already outed.

    Correct. But even then let’s heap scorn on their hypocrisy, not their manliness.

  176. 176.

    Mandalay

    @henqiguai:

    You also, apparently, don’t see how mocking someone as exhibiting the very same traits they themselves are viciously condemning can be such an effective response.

    Absolutely correct. I understand the intellectual argument, but I think it is a lousy and perilous approach, even if one puts puts moral scruples aside. The probabilities of such attacks being deliberately or sincerely misinterpreted, and maliciously misrepresented, are very high indeed.

    Perhaps it is an “effective response” when you are preaching to the choir, but it will never win hearts or change minds. It’s counterproductive to go down that path.

  177. 177.

    henqiguai

    @Mandalay (#176):

    Perhaps it is an “effective response” when you are preaching to the choir, but it will never win hearts or change minds. It’s counterproductive to go down that path.

    You assume winning of hearts and minds is the intent; perhaps that’s *your* motivation. Counterproductive?! No, insult and outrage *is* the intent. They don’t want to be taunted or insulted? Stop being a dick. Straight line reasoning.

  178. 178.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @rea: Yup, you’re on to something with that thought.

    I’ve always been amazed at how obsessed the anti-gay bigots are with gay sex. I don’t think gay men think about it nearly as much as the bigots do. Then again, I’ve always been amazed at the entire broomstick up the ass contingent that is so concerned about all these women treating sex with the same nonchalance as straight men do…somehow, that’s just wrong to them. They can’t stop thinking about it, while the rest of us are more than capable of compartmentalizing it.

  179. 179.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Mandalay:

    Worse still, they legitimize the right’s attacks on those they have deemed insufficiently manly

    Exqueeze me? Are you that weak minded to think that this constitutes “legitimizing” the attacks of the right? Their attacks are bullshit, and what people do on the left do nothing to change that.

  180. 180.

    boatboy_srq

    @Mandalay: All you’re saying here is that rumour is rude, that investigative journalism is muckraking without redeeming cause, and that we should wait for a formal announcement from the suspects of their wrongful behavior before we make accusations of hypocrisy. Playing nice as you suggest got us where we are today, which is nowhere near where we could have been had people like Dan Savage and Larry Kramer not been hushed for a very long time by mainstreet queerdom, yet further than we would have if they had heeded advice like yours. ACT UP was NOT an especially popular group – but they were (and are) necessary. Being rude and angry was far more profitable for the LGBT movement (and for civil rights, and for migrant workers, and for labor, come to think of it) than playing by rules imposed on us from the outside; and outing may be a jarring event, but it has value when the h8ers are seen for the deceitful scum they are. If we wait for proof – which is generally unearthed by some investigative reporter digging into unsubstantiated rumours – then we accept that wingnut double lives are acceptable because the proof of their misdeeds require suspicion to seek out and find, and such suspicion is impolite.

  181. 181.

    boatboy_srq

    @Mandalay:

    But even then let’s heap scorn on their hypocrisy, not their manliness.

    WAY WRONG. We’re heaping scorn on their presumption that heterosexuality is the only “normal”. Their “manliness” doesn’t factor. If “manliness” were a valid target we’d be comparing Graham (unfavorably) with Pandora Boxx.

Comments are closed.