WTF is wrong with HRC:
Hillary Rodham Clinton exclusively used a personal email account to conduct government business as secretary of state, State Department officials said, and may have violated federal requirements that officials’ correspondence be retained as part of the agency’s record.
Mrs. Clinton did not have a government email address during her four-year tenure at the State Department. Her aides took no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time, as required by the Federal Records Act.
It was only two months ago, in response to a new State Department effort to comply with federal record-keeping practices, that Mrs. Clinton’s advisers reviewed tens of thousands of pages of her personal emails and decided which ones to turn over to the State Department. All told, 55,000 pages of emails were given to the department. Mrs. Clinton stepped down from the secretary’s post in early 2013.
Her expansive use of the private account was alarming to current and former National Archives and Records Administration officials and government watchdogs, who called it a serious breach.
“It is very difficult to conceive of a scenario — short of nuclear winter — where an agency would be justified in allowing its cabinet-level head officer to solely use a private email communications channel for the conduct of government business,” said Jason R. Baron, a lawyer at Drinker Biddle & Reath who is a former director of litigation at the National Archives and Records Administration.
A spokesman for Mrs. Clinton, Nick Merrill, defended her use of the personal email account and said she has been complying with the “letter and spirit of the rules.”
Under federal law, however, letters and emails written and received by federal officials, such as the secretary of state, are considered government records and are supposed to be retained so that congressional committees, historians and members of the news media can find them. There are exceptions to the law for certain classified and sensitive materials.
Not only is it not secure and a breach of that protocol, but since she will never turn over her full personal email, now she fuels speculation that she is withholding emails. Just idiocy. Can she doing anything without an unforced error?
She needs to declare her candidacy now, we need other to come forward to challenge her, and she needs to get her shit together and win or lose or the Democrats are screwed in 2016.
Mandalay
Damn straight. I hope she decides she needs to spend more time with her grandchild.
PsiFighter37
I bet she’s hiding Lois Lerner’s emails too. And don’t forget Benghazi!! I bet Sweet Lindsey is rubbing out a fast and furious one over this revelation.
Corner Stone
Cole, you ain’t never been right about a god damned thing from jump. And I’ve got money backing that you will be fucking stupidly embarrassed on this as well.
Gex
I do not disagree with being alarmed that she did that. Do want to add that I’m pretty sure the W administration piloted such a maneuver. I had definitely been reading about GOP politicians doing that prior to her being Sec of State.
Again, not so much a disagreement. But I sure do get sick of standards only applying to one side.
Edited for clarity.
Omnes Omnibus
@PsiFighter37:
Jesus fuck, man. Why would you put an image like that into people’s minds?
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
So how did Condoleezza Rice handle her emails? We have no idea, because her name isn’t even mentioned in the story. Colin Powell and John Kerry are both mentioned by name and discussed in the story, but the person who immediately preceded Clinton as Sec of State is entirely absent.
That’s a huge omission, and one that makes me question the reporter’s motives, to say the least.
Hal
Meh.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
…and the law, and common sense
and like Benghazi and the IRS, it’s exactly the kind of open-ended, serious-questions-remain thing the R’s and the media love. She can’t prove she’s not hiding anything.
askew
Proving once again why we need a vigorous primary. Hillary Clinton is just not her husband who is teflon and any scandal just doesn’t stick to him. We are putting all of our eggs in a 69-year old woman’s basket and hoping that she doesn’t have any scandals or health issues that will derail her presidential run leaving us with no one to run in the general.
As for the latest scandal, in no way surprising. Team Hillary has always been amateur hour. She and her team are arrogant to think that the rules don’t apply to them or that they are too smart to get caught and then they turn around and make boneheaded mistakes like this. They had to know that she was going to run for president in 2016 and she would be under serious scrutiny and yet they pull this shit. It’s even more egregious because Obama wanted and clean, transparent admin and she still didn’t care enough to do the right thing. It also plays into her greatest weaknesses – her lying and secrecy.
If she manages to make it to the general election, she is going to lose the election by making boneheaded mistakes like this. She just doesn’t have the political skills to play at this level successfully and she surrounds herself with incompetent “yes” men/women because they are loyal not because they are good at their job.
Corner Stone
Nobody who ever considered voting for her gives a shit about this.
Corner Stone
@askew:
He was fucking impeached.
Violet
That’s appallingly dumb. I remember when Sarah Palin used her private email account to conduct Alaska government business when she was Governor and people ridiculed her for it. It got quite a bit of attention due to a kid hacking into her account and him being arrested and the case going to trial. All that was before and while Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State so it’s not like she didn’t know of a bad example of doing that exact thing.
Completely agree. These unforced errors are going to be a big problem, especially if they don’t come to light before the general.
Corner Stone
Cole, you and askew are peas in a pod. Enjoy!
askew
@Gex:
The W administration was corrupt and the last thing we should be doing is using their illegal or questionable tactics. Obama ran on cleaning up the corruption in the executive branch and being more transparent and outside of Hillary’s team at State they accomplished that. There have been no real scandals during Obama’s time in office. His admin has been mostly squeaky clean, which is a huge contrast to the last 4 admins (W, Clinton, HW Bush, Reagan).
And it is not like it is a surprise that there is a double-standard for Democrats. Hillary and her team are running on their experience in Washington yet they thought they’d get away with this BS? Seriously?
Corner Stone
This is ridiculous.
askew
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
It doesn’t matter how Rice, Powell or Kerry are handling their e-mails. Hillary violated the law and Obama’s directives on having a transparent WH and now she is causing problems for the current admin.
And why isn’t she turning over the emails? Was there something hinky going on with the Clinton Administration and Hillary at State?
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@askew:
I still want to know, how did Condoleezza Rice handle her email while she was S of S? Her name is not even mentioned in the story. That’s a fascinating omission, to say the least.
Omnes Omnibus
@askew:
Huh?
Chickamin Slam
I agree. Otherwise you might as well coronate Bush the 3rd now. And when he invades Iran. Who could have predicted? Four more wars!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@askew: I suspect you’re right about her entourage being sycophants and true believers. I always thought one of Bush’s biggest moral/intellectual failings was his lack of interest in disagreement. It’s one of the things that’s just so head-spinning about this: I can (almost) understand HRC having a gut reaction to keeping things private, but the fact that there was no one in her inner circle to point out that this was not kosher, or at least that person was ignored, is troubling. And I can’t imagine that we’re not going to see a memo from a State Dept lawyer advising her to stop it.
Omnes Omnibus
The run-up to 2016 is going to get ugly around here.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@askew:
Then why does the story discuss both Powell and Kerry but not even mention Rice’s name? Rice immediately preceded Clinton as S of S — isn’t it relevant to know what Rice did?
I know you hate Hillary, but I’m smelling some Whitewater-like smearing in this story.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Omnes Omnibus: armstrong has re-started MyDD. A perverse part of me is hoping some of the truly crazed PUMAs come back to perform
nellcote
I think deep down Hillary doesn’t want to run.
The Dangerman
I’d like to hear her reasoning for this practice; on its face, it sounds disqualifying. Same as Scott Walker not having a degree.
Mike J
And everybody in the Bush White House used RNC servers for work email.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@askew:
I think there may be something hinky about this story. Ask Wen Ho Lee how accurate the Times is once they think they smell a scandal.
TaMara (BHF)
I cannot get excited about HRC. It feels like moving backwards. So i’m in total agreement with the idea that she needs to declare now and let’s see if there is any real momentum or find someone who can excite the electorate.
If she’s strong enough to get the nomination, I’ll get behind it, but for now, I’m leaving my options wide open.
Corner Stone
Hey, Cole. This is you, now:
“Two weeks ago, the State Department, after reviewing Mrs. Clinton’s emails, provided the committee with about 300 emails — amounting to roughly 900 pages — about the Benghazi attacks.
Mrs. Clinton and the committee declined to comment on the contents of the emails or whether they will be made public.
The State Department, Ms. Psaki said, “has been proactively and consistently engaged in responding to the committee’s many requests in a timely manner, providing more than 40,000 pages of documents, scheduling more than 20 transcribed interviews and participating in several briefings and each of the committee’s hearings.”
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: The stupid is already so fucking strong.
TaMara (BHF)
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): That wouldn’t surprise me at all. And if so, they should come out swinging, because it’s just the beginning. Hit back hard.
Penus
@netw3rk: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton conducted all correspondence through snapchat and may have violated federal laws
@netw3rk: Mr. President, it’s secretary Clinton, but you have to look at this message within the next five seconds
What? Take a scree–
It’s gone
Laertes
@Corner Stone:
I’d definitely vote for her. And I think it smells.
kc
I really thought she was smarter than that.
Southern Goth
Couldn’t they just get a copy of the emails from the NSA?
/Couldn’t resist.
SiubhanDuinne
@askew:
What scares me a lot more is if she wins the election and then tries to govern making boneheaded mistakes like this and surrounding herself with an entire staff of incompetent, loyal “yes” men/women. I am just not at all sure I want a person like that in the Oval.
Well, okay. I guess a Republican would be worse. But shit, what a terrible choice.
Mary G
I find it incredibly disturbing. the same way I was disturbed when I heard that Romney’s team replaced all the state computers right at the end of his term. Then they sold off the old equipment, buying all the hard drives themselves to make sure no one could dig up any embarrassing emails.
It is corrupt when Republicans do it, and it is corrupt when Democrats do it.
I want to vote for Hillary, because I want to see a woman elected President in my lifetime, but boy, I am not a bit excited about it, and that pisses me off.
Corner Stone
@Laertes:
Smells of what, exactly? Do you even have any sense if it’s true? What the extent is, or is not?
The NYT article even stips that 55K pages were turned over. Nobody seems to be mentioning that.
What does it smell of? BENGHAZIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!?
Violet
@TaMara (BHF): Yeah, I feel the same way. Maybe she doesn’t need to declare today but I hope she does soon–like within the next month or, at the outside, two months. The will-she-or-won’t-she nonsense is stupid and sucks all the air out of the conversation about the Democratic field.
different-church-lady
Shiny object is shiny.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: NARWHALS!!!!!
Corner Stone
This is a perfect example of D voters. You poor, sad, disappointed fucks. Don’t even know what the truth is, or anything factual about this.
You’re all a bunch of fucking former Republican voting Coles.
Destined to look completely stupid in a day or two.
Adam
She’s hiding the FACT that zombie Vince Foster is setting up those death panels you betcha.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@different-church-lady:
The whole thing smells like 1992 to me. Wait, does that mean it smells like teen spirit?
jl
I agree with Cole that if HRC runs, she needs to run a much better campaign in 2016 than in 2008.
But this article is so sloppily written that I think it is hard to tell whether it is BS trolling or something serious.
‘Possibly breaking rules’? WTF does that mean. What does ‘rule’ mean?
Are there regulations written down on paper or not? And if so, what do they say? Did HRC do what she is supposed to do according to regulations written down on paper, or not? The NYT cannot get a copy of the regulations and cannot figure it out.
The only (very vaguely reported) regulation I see mentioned in the story indicates that what regulations are on paper can be met by submitting emails from a government or personal account.
Maybe I am slow, can’t understand, and someone will have to explain it to me. But, crummy article if you ask me.
Let’s see what turns up if this affair ever produces some serious reporting, instead of vague BS.
Corner Stone
This reminds me of the whole Shanesha Taylor event I mentioned on a previous thread. The absolute furor here from so many “so very liberal” commenters. That ST had the fucking temerity to spend money on food and rent for her kids! How dare she!
Yet none of you bothered to see what the actual truth was.
What a bunch of fucks I do not have to give.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: This.
Corner Stone
@Adam:
That zombie fucker is still under deep cover, hiding under the former Libya embassy. Just waiting. Waiting.
TaMara (BHF)
If I scream loud enough and call you enough names, you’ll absolutely listen to me and succumb to my viewpoint. Amazing people skills.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mary G:
This right here.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT: I’m getting ads for a Muslim dating site, gorgeous Ukrainian women looking for their American soulmate, and Liberty University.
Tree With Water
@askew: “…Hillary and her team are running on their experience in Washington yet they thought they’d get away with this BS? Seriously?”.
Why shouldn’t her team have assumed she could get away with it? She got away with her full throated support of the Bush/Cheney War, leastwise to within a hair’s breadth of the 2008 nomination (which meant the presidency that year). It will be weirdly just and fitting if this lesser (albeit serious) exercise in execrable judgement will lead to her political undoing.
Omnes Omnibus
@TaMara (BHF): Are you new to this blog? I think I’ve seen your ‘nym before…
David Koch
This is gonna kill the biter, old, dead-end Hillbots.
Karma is as karma does.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I am getting Volvo ads. I think you lead a more interesting internet life than I do.
sharl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Awww, daaaayum, between this and (possibly/probably) ginned-up Clinton hit pieces in the media…
We’re not going BACK THERE… are we???
Halp, imma gettin’ flashbacks
Phoenix_Rising
You people have me agreeing with Corner Stone, so obviously someone needs to head for bed. I’ll go. Let me know if the zombie Vince Foster tears all the W keys off your laptops before moring, mkay?
Corner Stone
@TaMara (BHF): Hey, just cuz Omnes used all caps at 41, does not mean he did not make a substantive case for his viewpoint.
Hal
One point: this is why HRC is not declaring her yet. So everyone can flip out over shit like this and then forget about it. It’s March 2015 and some of you are already throwing in the towel. Jesus Christ on crutches.
David Koch
Markos at DKos has spent the last year beating readers around their ears, telling them they’re fools for supporting Warren because Clinton is inevitable.
HA!
Smart guy, that Markos.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: I can bold it next time if that would help.
Corner Stone
@Phoenix_Rising:
*blushes*
It’s a little sudden and all, but…let me brush my teeth and I’ll be right there.
kc
@Southern Goth:
Heh.
Mike J
@David Koch: Someone didn’t like the memes I made for you the other day. Downvoted every comment I’d ever made there. I guess they didn’t want me to have imaginary internet points. As you can tell, I’m crushed.
Elie
@nellcote:
This
THIS
But what is damaging is that the attention on her is sucking the oxygen and vitality from another alternative. I am all for her if I think she is strong and wants this thing and is ready to put on her iron pants and do the deed.
My concern is that she is fucking around and I have no patience with her blowing this for our chance of getting a decent candidate with a shot against the very very horrible alternatives. This is not about HER.. for God’s sake…
tazj
Wasn’t there a story a few weeks ago about Jeb Bush’s team releasing his e-mails from his time as governor? His team wanted them released as an act of transparency and to show how Jeb Bush was responsive to his constituents. The only problem was the e-mails were unredacted when they were first released so anyone could see names, addresses, and the problems these people were facing sometimes including their diagnoses.
I know this e-mail situation is very different. This could turn out to be terrible for HRC and I wish there were more viable liberal Democrats in the race. However, I’m going to wait this out before declaring it all over and jumping off a bridge.
Elie
@Corner Stone:
LOL
Cpl Cam
May as well give the 27% something to howl about now and get it out of the way early. Personally I’m thrilled at this revelation and can’t wait to drink those delicious wingnut tears two years from now when they’re crying about how Hillary’s presidency is illegal and invalid because of those “missing Benghazi e-mails” but I’m deeply partisan like that…
Omnes Omnibus
@tazj:
Sensible comments like this will be the death of this blog.
Warren Terra
Can someone give Corner Stone a f’ing time out? They’re 1/5 of the comments, and they’re just slinging insults and denial. It’s tiresome.
If true, this is extremely disappointing. I can understand why given her husband’s experience, and her own experience of the R’s trying to concoct a scandal from tendentious readings of emails to do with Benghazi, Sec. Clinton would try to create as few records as possible. But if she so flagrantly broke an important law having to o with a public servant’s responsibilities to their employers and to honesty, that really is not a good thing.
Mandalay
@Hal:
It is more likely that she is not declaring because it would kill the goose that keeps laying golden eggs for her, in the form of six figure speaker fees.
cckids
@Corner Stone:
No. It smells of the same stupid, stupid mindset that let Bill start an affair with a 22-year old & believe that she’d never tell anyone. It is the f*cking definition of an unforced error; it gives the Republicans a gold-plated “gotcha”. It doesn’t matter if it turns out to be a nothingburger. That’s not how it appears, that’s not how it will be spun. And FSM knows, Hillary & her team seem incapable of getting in front of any derogatory story. Scares the crap out of me regarding her candidacy. She doesn’t seem to have political instincts, and that is a fatal weakness.
lamh36
I’m just here to read the comments.
TaMara (BHF)
@Omnes Omnibus:
@Corner Stone:
I’m gonna have to make more popcorn.
lamh36: jinx
cckids
@Mary G:
Yes. Amen.
Gian
@Tree With Water:
2008 primary wasn’t that close. her fans will point to states where the party sanctioned them for breaking rules and (Michigan) and Obama wasn’t on the ballot and look at the “vote totals”
but I remember either she or her surrogates compared Obama to RFK as being a reason to stay in.
She hired and ran with a team in 2008 who didn’t know the rules of how to get nominated, and continued on like Frank Reich was going to come in and lead the greatest comeback ever after she was essentially mathematically eliminated barring winning the rest of the delegates by a highly improbable margin of something like 75-25
People seem to project their own hope and hatred on her far out of proportion to what she probably deserves.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/23/AR2008052303158.html
El Caganer
It wasn’t very smart and may have been illegal, but voters aren’t going to give a shit.
Mike J
@cckids: You could vote for Palin.
Corner Stone
@Warren Terra:
Sigh.
Corner Stone
@cckids:
What does this even mean?
Culture of Truth
We’ll see. It is remotely possible this is initial story is not 100% of the whole story.
The Dangerman
@nellcote:
Hillary has Romney’s problem; stratospheric feelings of entitlement don’t win elections.
ETA: By that, I mean, you are right, she doesn’t want to RUN, she just wants to be President.
dslak
Oh, no! Hillary may have broken the law. Better cancel the primary!
David Koch
Even the liberal Daily Kos….
wasabi gasp
What a relief.
mai naem mobile
I dont give a shit about the emails but it does smell. I think HRC after all the Clinton scandal/investigations is too smart to put stupid stuff in emails. I actually would like to know how she got away with it. It didn’t catch anybody’s attention? No tech person? No CIA person? No POTUS tech person? It almost sounds like on of those Clinton era fake scandals.
Also, Condi doesn’t matter because its a Republican congress. They won’t bother investigating Condi.
askew
@Omnes Omnibus:
Meant to say Clinton Foundation and State. There has to be a reason Hillary decided to break the law to keep her emails secret. The question is why.
cckids
@Mike J:
Jesus, really? Not with someone else’s ballot. If Hillary’s the candidate, she’s got my vote. I just wish she were better at it. In 2008, I voted for her in the primary, and one reason was I thought that she’d be a decent president & then Obama could come in in 2016 & have the next 8 years.
Mandalay
@cckids:
Exactly. There are plenty of side issues being raised here (both sides do it,..the NYT story has holes,..it’s a nothingburger), but her use of private email has been confirmed by her spokesman and it is a serious matter.
Corner Stone
@Gian:
That’s just fucking uncalled for, asshole.
Elie
There really isn’t much of a “story”. She either had/used State Dept email or didn’t. If she didn’t, that IS the story because she IS required to have it. Someone upstring asked if Condi didn’t have it.
I am sorry — this is more of the inexcusable Clinton stupidshit again… it just IS…
jl
@Omnes Omnibus:
And now Omnes Omnibus, a lawyer, and with a Latin name, tells us HRC has a NARWHAL scandal!!!!!!!!!!
OMG OMG. I give up! The hell with it.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Dangerman: Me, I’ve always seen her as the woman who always had to work harder than the men around her. At the same time, she was never able to coast on her looks or charm like some can. Most of her errors are those of a grinder.
Adam
@Corner Stone:
Or maybe the Mena airport mens room?
Seriously though guys, this is a nothingburger, just like the “disastrous” book tour and 80 million other things that was supposed to ruin her.
Corner Stone
@cckids:
Oh no! And every single Republican will probably decide to not vote for her.
Shit.
chris murphy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Why would she do it except to hide something?
cckids
@Corner Stone: It means that Bill, fully knowing that Gingrich & the Republicans were baying for his blood, did one of the most moronic things – ie, the affair with Lewinsky- a President has ever done. Did he truly think she’d keep quiet? It was just so, SO stupid.
This email crap is similarly stupid. Using a private email account instead of a .gov account just looks & smells fishy. And, again, Republicans were looking for something, anything, she would do wrong even before she took the oath as SoS. So why give them such an easy bat to beat her over the head with?
Carolinus
@Corner Stone:
While I mostly agree with you on this one, that this isn’t currently worth having a preemptive freak-out about, and it would be nice if Dem’s default posture was to be more protective of their likely standard bearers, I do find it fascinating the night and day difference between the way you respond to Clinton vs Obama media broadsides. I used to assume you were just an anti-Dem-Party troll, but after seeing this 180 response a few times now, I’m beginning to wonder if you aren’t actually a jilted 2008 PUMA.
reality-based
@askew:
seriously.
And exactly WHAT kind of lame-ass legal counsel and advisers did she surround herself with? The VERY FIRST TIME State Dept legal service received a personal -address email from her, they should have sternly told her that that shit ain’t gonna fly.
Amateur hour. Unforced errors, PLEASE can we get some more candidates 1 (cough) Elizabeth Warren (cough.
Corner Stone
@Adam: Just like her saying the Bible was the most influential book she had read in her life.
Panderer!
FIN
Corner Stone
@Carolinus:
Please to give an example of same?
cokane
this is really bad, not just for election considerations, it’s just a straight up bad sign for a politician. who the fuck uses their personal email to conduct government business? how arrogant can u get… also this is a scandal that has no endgame, similar to benghazi, except there’s actually something to this one….
someone else should run man, i think the dems actually have a ton of candidates that could beat santorum or bush or who the fuck ever, especially after all the dumb shit they have to say in the primary
catclub
@Corner Stone: No, I agree with Askew. He was impeached,… and his approval ratings went up. That is teflon.
lamh36
meh…I’ll wait and see . no biggie in grand scheme but jeez, what is it win unforced errors and HRC campaigns.
I mean when there’s no there there, why does it always seems the HRC campaigns finds someway to create something…jeez
But right now I’m too sick to care, so I’ll just go back to reading comments now.
WaterGirl
@reality-based:
YES
Corner Stone
@cckids: This makes absolutely no sense, and as an example or analogy is completely nonsensical.
askew
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
I think you are desperately spinning. Hillary’s team confirmed that she used a private email for her State work which is already a violation. Doesn’t matter what someone else did in the past.
@David Koch:
Nah, look at the desperate spinning going on here. It’s nothing. It doens’t matter. It’s all made up. The people who are concerned about it are sexist or GOP trolls. Same bullshit.
Hillary is apparently never to be held responsible for anything she does or doesn’t do and to say otherwise is WRONG. She is our only hope and without her we will never have a Democrat in the WH again. It’s the same bullshit that they said in 2008. They were wrong then. They are wrong now.
And for the record, I was outraged about W’s admin circumventing government transparency/accountability laws as I was with Walker and Palin. But, I see a lot of people who were appalled at those abuses who are just fine with Hillary doing the same thing or worse.
Obama needs to get in front of this and appoint a team independent of Hillary’s inner circle to go through those emails and if there is anything classified in them, she is done.
Omnes Omnibus
@catclub: How many presidents in US history have been impeached? It’s not exactly a good thing.
chris murphy
@Laertes:
I suspect I’ll have to vote for her (as opposed to some batshit crazy Republican) and I think it smells too.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: QFT
Corner Stone
@catclub: He was impeached.
reality-based
@Corner Stone:
oh, Bullshit. I’m a lifelong liberal Howard Dean-supporting Democrat.
WHO DOES NOT WANT TO LOSE THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION
I was planning on voting for Hilary in 2016. And I am furious at her.
I have friends who worked in the Obama Admin cabinet, at Chief of staff level. They WERE ALL BRIEFED on keeping government business strictly on government systems and warned that noncompliance would get them booted. .
This is NOT people picking on poor Hilary – this is Hilary being an idiot.
Gian
@Corner Stone: yes, your insults are. in the morning maybe you’ll sober up
Mandalay
@Elie:
Why are you presenting this as unknown? Clinton’s spokesman has already confirmed that she used personal email.
TaMara (BHF)
@WaterGirl: Hey, not to go off topic here, when everyone is having so much fun, but I saw you comments about your puppy vs. Bixby and they gave me hope. Thanks!
mai naem mobile
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: so obviously you’re a Jerry Falwell loving American looking for a Ukrainian Tartar woman who wants to become a born again.
The Dangerman
@Omnes Omnibus:
How much work does it take to follow the law (assuming the reports as presented are accurate)?
askew
@Omnes Omnibus:
How does being a woman or a grinder excuse not following the law? You can’t tell me she didn’t know she was supposed to use a government email address. There is no way she is that stupid.
David Koch
Oh no! Even my dear friend Glenn Greenwald.. Considering Glenn is always right and a pulitzer prize winner this must be serious.
Suzanne
The thing that I find most bizarre about this story is that she had to have emailed her colleagues, the White House, every other Cabinet secretary, all the other departments….and no one raised a red flag? I have my clients’ email addresses memorized, and yet she was the only one using her Hotmail account or whatever? I don’t buy it. This strains credulity to me.
Corner Stone
@Gian: Come on, now. I’m a lifelong Houston football org fan.
Give me a break.
WaterGirl
@TaMara (BHF): Go off topic. Please!
With Henry it was definitely darkest just before the dawn. It’s a good thing they are so cute and lovable, or they’d never make it to 5 months.
Elie
@chris murphy:
The problem is that each minute that she remains and undeclared candidate, she is literally sabotaging any other Democrat from developing. We don’t even have anyone saying they are interested. This must stop now and we need viable alternatives to her or we are fucked. I would have supported her if she had demonstrated the strength and savy to pull the wagon, but I will not blow up our chances trying to breathe oxygen into a corpse. This person seems to have very dubious political instincts and unfortunately, our fate has been tied to her. This must end NOW. If she wants to be the nominee, she better get up of her ass and fight for it – hard.
That is all
jl
@askew: The only problem is that the NYT story, which seems to be the source for every story on it on Yahoo News, is crap. Maybe that is because it is no real story so best NYT could do was a crap article, or because NYT has a real story and crapped it. Might be nice to wait until we know the facts better.
Funny why this is a big deal all of a sudden. HRC has been turning over emails for BENGHAZI!!! for a long time now. All of a sudden some brainiac reporter figured out that HRC did not have a government account?
CNN has a more detailed story which is a little better. If HRC really broke real regulations or laws written down on paper, sure is funny no story can manage to cite anything.
Clinton had no official State Dept. email address
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/02/politics/hillary-clinton-2016-emails-secretary-of-state/index.html
I’m suspending judgment until I read a decently reported story on it.
WJS
This wasn’t news in 2013 and it isn’t news now…
Hacked Emails Show Hillary Clinton Was Receiving Advice at a Private Email Account From Banned, Obama-Hating Former Staffer
If John Cook at Gawker knew this two years ago, why does it even matter now?
Hillary Clinton–vague accusation of abuse of power–rightwing freakout–dems collapse in hysterics–oh, mess!
Yawn.
Oh, and, please–no Democrat is going to win in 2016. The country is going to lean right and elect another fool with an R besides their name because they want free money and a daddy to make them feel free! Or something like that.
Omnes Omnibus
@askew: You know, I think I’ll wait until there are more facts out there than this story full of “may haves.” But then, I haven’t jumped on the anyone but Clinton bandwagon.
@askew: Please offer definitive evidence that her actions violated the law. So far, I have only seen “may haves.”
John Cole +0
Cornerstone, you manic moron. I’m going to vote for her if she is the nominee. She just needs to stop doing stupid shit. This is an unforced fucking error. I don’t think she is hiding anything about Benghazi, but since she has probably delicate personal correspondence in her personal emails, she can’t release them all, which will give the Benghazidiots more fuel.
Christ, she will lose the general if she does stupid shit like this. Not to mention, just because Republicans did it is no excuse.
Moron.
Corner Stone
@reality-based:
Please pass on to Rahm my heartfelt hopes that he lose re-election runoff.
Corner Stone
@mai naem mobile:
Do you…ummm..know any, by chance?
Elie
@Mandalay:
Sorry. You are right. I keep blinking to try to see (or comprehend) another reality. Again, the laws of physics cannot be disputed..
Peale
It will turn out that whatever personal email she was using was more secure than whatever system the state department has that has been hacked by everyone from Algeria to Zimbabwe.
I like to think that the top echelon of diplomats communicate secretly using fake profiles in grindr or skout. The same way Isis uses xtube and hotgoo.
xenos
@reality-based: this is what makes me so skeptical. Hillary is emailing the President, the Secretary of Defense, the CIA director and the NSA director from a Gmail account? And this goes on for years because she never gets a secure email account?
It beggers belief. I give it a 5% chance of being true. And that is only because I do not trust her much to begin with.
Nonetheless, if it were true, I would be very upset and looking for just about anyone else to vôte for in thé dem primary.
Omnes Omnibus
@Peale: hotgoo?
jl
@Elie: I really don’t see why HRC should do this that or the other. If there are good Democratic candidates considering running, why would they be more likely to run if the supposed behemoth monster unstoppable candidate HRC declared?
I seriously do not get the logic of what you and many others here are arguing.
The other prospective candidates are grown-ups, why do they have to wait for HRC to do something? And if she is so formidable, why would waiting until she actually declared and started sucking up contributions and staff help them?
Basically okay....
Wow.
There is a reason Chris Christie, JebBush, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, and even Mike Huckabee sat out 2012. Barack Obama was going to win and the fact was clear as day. Meanwhile, everyone and there mother is running against Hillary. The next two years are going to be a tsunami of bullshit: some legit shady shit like this and Benghazi nonsense.
By the end of it; America may cry uncle and put a Republican in office.
Thank God she’s running as the woman candidate; I don’t know many that’ll crawl through glass to vote for her, though.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, I was afraid to google that. Thanks for asking.
Laertes
@Corner Stone:
Incompetence and arrogance.
This is the New York Times, reporting perfectly straightforward facts, which the State Department is confirming and which nobody has denied. Which facts reported in that article do you dispute, and on what basis?
Your honor, I’d like to remind the court that my client has met thousands of people that he didn’t assault.
Which brings us back to incompetence: Benghazi is a scandal entirely without substance. There’s no there there. This kind of shit can breathe new life into that scandal and make it look like she’s got something to hide. Because suddenly, unaccountably, she’s acting like she’s got something to hide.
This is bad.
Frosty in Dallas
She could fuck up a crowbar
Corey Booker where are you?
Corner Stone
@John Cole +0:
More fuel to what? Be motivated to NOT vote for her?
You’ll forgive me if I deign to not give much credence to your HRC pre-freakouts. Get back to us when you’ve got something, Wen Ho.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: Fucking A. If you want to run, declare and run. Why should HRC’s declaration or lack thereof matter?
myiq2xu
How times have changed. 7 years ago I got chased off this blog for being the last remaining defender/supporter of Hillary Clinton.
In fairness, John Cole hasn’t changed – he never liked her.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Suzanne:
@jl:
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m with you guys. There’s something weird about this story, and it’s not just the absence of the previous S of S. I’m waiting for there to be a lot more facts and a lot fewer “appears to be.”
Suzanne
@xenos: Word. And the whole thing about having to request an email address, or you didn’t get one? Uhm. People at that level have assistants to do that shit for them. I absolutely cannot believe that there is not “new hire” protocol. This story is weird.
Mandalay
@jl: The photo on your CNN link is a winner – it makes Clinton look like a cross between Maleficent and Cruella de Vil. Whoever picked that image must be pissing their pants with laughter.
David Koch
@John Cole +0: Is your hero a Benghazidiot too?
Elie
I am not sure what clarification we are waiting for, but I for it if we can verify that she/her team are not stupid shit, didn’t break any laws/regulations etc. I pray heartily that she can 1) keep Bill out of almost everything substantive so that he doesn’t feel the need to provide his interpretation and 2) she has followed all relevant and applicable laws and regulations so that we can avoid bad ju ju. 3) we need to start warming up the relief. Seriously. Do you wait until the bases are loaded?
West of the Cascades
@cokane: Governor John Kitzhaber of Oregon used his personal email to conduct state business. It was profoundly stupid. He resigned.
I do a lot of work FOIA-ing federal agencies (for public interest environmental groups), and the idea that a government official – especially a department Secretary – would go “off the grid” and not use a government email for government business is profoundly disturbing from an accountability and transparency perspective. I don’t ascribe any bad motive to Secretary Clinton, but it’s not what a federal official should do. I don’t know whether it violates a law or not (I couldn’t find any regulations on a quick search), but it’s not how a government official should behave.
Not sure it changes my mind that she’s the best candidate I can imagine at this point, but it makes me more nervous that she would continue the “secrecy is everything” approach that GWB began and the Obama administration has, unfortunately, continued.
Corner Stone
@Laertes:
Only to morons who never had any intention of voting for her in the first place.
Hmmm, there’s no there there.
So let’s all pre-emptively freakout and freak the freak out. Because Cole has such finely honed instincts regarding politics. And scandals.
xenos
@myiq2xu: you chased off for being a bigot. We were convinced you were a paid GOP troll, not a hillbot. If you were a hillary supporter you were completely useless.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Laertes:
Whitewater had a great appearance of being straightforward, because the facts were, shall we say, selectively reported. Given the New York Times’ history of writing factually dubious stories about the Clintons, I am suspending judgment until there are more facts to be had.
Warren Terra
@West of the Cascades:
The rest of your comment I totally agree with, but this behavior by Kitzhaber, while bad, is not the reason for his resignation.
mai naem mobile
@Omnes Omnibus: you can’t raise money if the big donors are sitting at the sidelines waiting to donate to Hillary and the Clintons hold a grudge for a looonnngg time so you can’t diss them. And small donors aren’t going to be enough to carry you all the way.
Corner Stone
@Laertes:
Hey, Judy. Good to see you. No, wait. The opposite of that.
The Dangerman
It’s not just stupid, it’s fucking Clintonian. After being dogged (pun intended) by people like Gennifer Flowers and Paula Corbin Jones, you basically have to suffer from NPD to want to get your lance waxed by an intern. If you’re HRC and credibility is a concern (“dodging sniper fire”), you make damned sure you don’t do something to reinforce the perceptions of a cover up.
Corner Stone
@mai naem mobile: Put on your big boy panties and go ask them. What kind of leadery leadership are you showing if you’re waiting for someone else to shape your future?
Tree With Water
Wow. 150 responses in no time flat. As someone who has no use for Hillary and hopes to see her denied the nomination, I find that encouraging.
Kropadope
@Corner Stone: The State Department is confirming the story. What leads you to believe it to be false?
Dave C
@Corner Stone:
I will almost certainly vote for her in the general if she is the nominee, and I give a shit about this. Apparently a bunch of other people do too. Guess you were wrong, huh?
Elie
@jl:
I hear you. On one hand, whether she runs or not shouldn’t matter except that she is Democratic ” royalty” such as we have. Our bench, compared to her, is inexperienced and unexposed. The longer she stays on the scene, she steals thunder from developing other candidates who will not be in a good position to compete with her. She IS a 6,000 lb gorilla — esp with the Clinton machine and financing… or do you think that is a minor issue? She is a challenging opponent for another Democrat– esp if she doesn’t indicate that she doesn’t want it… I think you aren’t being totally realistic here….
fuckwit
@cckids: I must agree. It’s a Clinton (husband and wife, with wife not quite as bad as husband) fatal flaw: sloppiness and privilege and thinking they can get away with anything, and not even really trying to cover their tracks. Shrub and Rove were like that too (and they too got into trouble for using private personal email addresses for public govt business).
Of course the media will crucify the Clintons and give the Bushes a pass… that’s just yer typical “liberal” corporate media at work. But we can’t tolerate that shit anymore; I think we’ve all had enough of it.
Obama has run the tightest, most squared-away, most above-board administration in my lifetime (I was born in the LBJ days). Sad to see Clinton doing something so dumb, and does not bode well for her future as a Democratic standard-bearer.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone:
Cole has wonderful instincts regarding helping people and animals and he should be commended for that. I do not think that his political instincts and analysis are at the same level. Deciding from the gut alone is as bad as deciding from pure reason.
Corner Stone
@Dave C: In what way, Katie? You now considering NOT voting for her? If she’s the nominee?
Gian
@Omnes Omnibus:
I suppose it matters because people who donate large sums of bundled money are not giving any until she declares. Further, there are probably people who may feel loyalty to her and won’t run if she does. Much of politics it networking and such, not just putting chess pieces in the right place. She’s got a pretty enviable contact list in her phone to get the ball rolling when she actually declares.
The speculation yesterday was that she was due to announce at the beginning of the next fiscal quarter so as to maximize the funding numbers for that quarter. Tactically for her, she’s simply trying to frighten off would-be challengers in the primary system. “winning the battle before it’s fought” in the art of war way.
Were I inclined to bet (and I’m not) I see a two pronged strategy, she’s got the potential bundler-donors on hold for her final decision, but is delaying it to avoid early slings and arrows of the Republican smear machine, or potential primary rivals by not officially running. I don’t know if that’s a really good plan, it’s just what it looks like from the outside to me
Omnes Omnibus
@mai naem mobile: Obama says you are wrong.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@jl: Why should she need to think twice about using a government e-mail address when she is a government employee? Especially one as high-profile as Secretary of State?
Even if it is a poorly-written hit-piece, it’s a bone-headed thing to do.
She had no business using a personal e-mail account for government business. Period. State has lots of ways of communicating if she didn’t want to use official e-mail (fancy secure phones, for instance).
It’s a stupid, stupid scandal. She should know better, and it is very disturbing that she apparently didn’t. Or maybe she thought that she was somehow “special” and didn’t need to follow the rules. She’s not that special. Either way, it’s stupid.
It’s a bone-headed move, and for someone who supposedly has wanted to be President for 20 years or more, inexplicable.
She soon either needs to say she’s running or get out of the way. Having this, or things like it, drag out while everyone waits for her to declare would be doing the party and its voters a great disservice.
Cheers,
Scott.
Corner Stone
@Kropadope:
I, for one, am not sure what did or did not happen here. But I certainly am not going to go balls out until I know more, and make my mind up for myself.
This story fucking stinks to high heaven. It’s very selective and not quite full up, so far.
I’ll wait a bit. Thanks.
TaMara (BHF)
@John Cole +0: Hey, here is a fun story from my hood, gun nuts get ripped off because they were afraid Obummer was coming for their guns.
Shadow Ops Weaponry steals 900K
(because eventually we’ll have to talk about something besides Hillary)
Laertes
@Corner Stone:
Do you have a theory as to why Clinton’s spokesman would lie when he confirms that she conducted government business on her private email?
Can you flesh out your conspiracy theory here? How deep does this deception run, and who’s in on it?
Kropadope
@Elie: Who would have thought that Obama would show up in 08? Yes, her coyness about her intents will lead donors to sit on the sidelines, but there’s a long way to go. My bigger concern is that the MSM pre-determines for everyone who may be taken seriously.
Hillary has a rich history of bad judgment. It’s astounding that she’s being taken seriously as a candidate. This is the most dangerous parallel she has to the Republicans. The Iraq vote was the tip of the iceberg.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Kropadope:
They are confirming that she used a personal email address. What no one seems to know is whether doing so violated any law, or even any policy that was in place. The story is full of “may have” and “appears to be” without any confirmation that what she did was illegal or even against policy.
If it turns out she was given official permission to do this, is it still a horrible scandal that should tank her candidacy?
Carolinus
@Corner Stone:
For one, I predict you’ll be far less receptive to the coming GG yellow journalism attacks on Hillary. He’s a massive Paultie so as the campaign season approaches he’s guaranteed to escalate against her. From his recent Reddit AMA:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2wwdep/we_are_edward_snowden_laura_poitras_and_glenn/courtey
Translated from GG-speak, that “genuine dissenting force” being Rand Paul.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus:
He’s got a Baltimore Ravens fan giving treats to multiple not yet homed rescue animals!
Omnes Omnibus
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: And no one ever said, “Hills, baby, use an official email? I bet she sent at least one e-mail to Obama. No one ever blinked? I doubt it.
Southern Goth
State department emails from MadamePresidentHillaryRodhamClinton @ whitehouse.ly and no one said anything until now?
Dave C
@Corner Stone:
No, I didn’t say that. You said that nobody who would consider voting for her gives a shit about this. I and several others are saying that we will vote for her (if necessary), and also think this (may) reflect poorly on HRC. Ergo, you are wrong and might want to consider (just consider it!) acting like slightly less of a giant gaping asshole.
reality-based
@Corner Stone:
no, I meant CoS to a cabinet head. (said friend claims credit for having hated Rahm before it was fashionable!)
Laertes
@Corner Stone:
You know sneer that Dick Cheney and Sarah Palin use? That smug “we know they’re out to get us” shtick they use when they’re talking about the New York Times? It’s no prettier when you do it.
You think they’re wrong, make your case. But if you’re just gonna sit there giving attitude and hope that people can’t tell the difference, you’re working the wrong room.
Elie
@Kropadope:
I hear you.. I do believe anything is possible but there is no doubt that a new promising entrant needs oxygen and light… which she would block if she lingers too long. I don’t know how much time is “too long”, but I am tired of this shit with the Clintons and being a little irritable.
She remains, un-fucking-fortunately, a candidate with lousy instincts, dammit.
David Koch
Don’t worry. Hillary can recover. There’s lottas of time. Remember, Bobby Kennedy wasn’t assassinated until June.
Corner Stone
@Dave C: Ok, so you’re gadflying about on this, then?
Good to know it’s really so.very.important. to you and your fucking bunched up panties.
How about you take a peek to see what the actual truth is? Before you succumb to bunchitis.
notorious JRT
@Corner Stone:
Sorry, you are wrong about this. This personal email rather than a government account is a bad trend, and HRC will have to spend time addressing it – despite your protestations to the contrary.
Laertes
@Corner Stone:
And what was that actual truth? Go ahead. Spell it out for us. We’re waiting.
catclub
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
I think any federal employee will confirm that they are told they cannot conduct fed business with a personal email.
What is the basis of the ‘cannot’ and what are the penalties? I suspect they exist, but have not looked up those details.
jl
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Fine, that is your opinion, you are entitled to it. HRC did something stupid. Wouldn’t surprise me that she might do something stupid.
My problem with the all the stories I have seen is that the headlines suggest that she broke the law, or regulations, or ‘rules’. But the stories don’t cite any specific sections of specific regulations. The CNN article sends you to a BS summary that was effective in 2013, the year HRC resigned. I have neither the time nor the knowledge to wade through the half dozen (at least Edit: I actually tried to do so) links to various governing regs that were effective at various times. If a reporter, who is writing the story, and has access to the required expertise, cannot be bothered, why should I take the story seriously?
And, for goodness sake, we should all know by now that no Democrat is immune from GOP operative, and press throwing shit around to see what sticks. The press does it with GOPers too.
So, until there is some decent reporting on this, I am suspending judgment.
Edit what steams me right now, is our failed corporate media should not print such sloppy crap stories. Oh, BTW, did I mention the stories are crap? I may have forgotten to say that, if there is a big scandal, you cannot tell from these stories because they are incompetent sloppy vague crap.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: That confirms my point. He gave a home to a Ravens fan.
Corner Stone
@Laertes: Hey, friend. How about you consider not giving up the ghost on a poorly sourced, speculative bullshit of an article that doesn’t ever define what is going on or what is illegal/unethical in what happened?
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: I can’t quite tell what you’re saying here. Are you disbelieving that Hillary used a personal email address or are you suggesting that plenty of people knew about it and were all turning a blind eye? Or that it’s not a big deal if / that she violated some email policy otherwise she would have been stopped from using personal email long ago? Or something else?
TaMara (BHF)
OMG, it must be time for bed. The Nym that must not be named has shown up.
…and it’s not even spring yet.
fuckwit
@reality-based: Hmm, good point. Maybe the whole story is bullshit then. But if HRC’s people have confirmed it correct (as some commenters are saying), then what? Which is it? How is it even possible that nobody raised a red flag? Has this become the norm (which’d be consistent with the other commenters howling about why Dr. Rice’s use or not-use of private emails is extremely relevant)? If people did rais red flags, and HRC ignored them (and Rice before her), then really, WTF is going on here?
If this whole thing is illegal then it does smell of Clinton arrogance (following footsteps of Bush arrogance). If it’s not, then it smells of media trying to crucify the Clintons. And if it happened at all, it smells of what the actual fuck is going on at State and when are they going to get their shit together?
Dave C
@Corner Stone:
Ya know, of all the people posting in this thread, you seem to be the one who is riled up the most.
Corner Stone
@Carolinus: Sorry. Any examples of what you claimed? Actual examples, I mean?
Corner Stone
@Dave C: Just find it amusing. Cole is funny.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@catclub:
The problem with this story is that no one seems to know if this was illegal or against policy. There’s a lot of yeah, it looks bad but no cites of what the policy or law actually is.
It’s a whole lot of speculation without much substance. Given the NYT’s past Clinton history, I’ll wait to see if there’s any smoke before I worry about a fire.
TaMara (BHF)
@WaterGirl: I’m holding you to the idea that this is the dark before dawn. Cute is definitely what saves them. We’ll discuss more on an quieter thread that’s filled with kittehs or chickens or something.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): Even if it wasn’t a law, she should still have used an official email address. Disclosure is law and using an official email address facilitates that and lessens confusing as to which emails were official business. There are also major security concerns, this is why you aren’t allowed to use personal emails for official business at a medical office or a financial firm or probably under any employer of significant size.
Regardless of whether she broke the law, she exercised bad judgment. Yet again. How many passes does she get?
Elie
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
The complexity here is the CONTENT of the personal emails. If she fucked up and did State Department business or had any confidential or sensitive information in those personal emails, well, lets just say, this would not be a good thing. Generally, professionals do not risk this sort of dilemma. Good judgement usually argues for a wall between your personal and private decisions and information for such a high level/highrisk job. This aint me and you, Mnemosyne. This is the Secy of State and the Effing State Department. To provide even more context, this is the most hostile congress to an administration EVER. She theoretically knows this, right? So why do you screw around with that? Also, knowing you MIGHT want to run for President in an extremely hostile political environment??? Man, is she stupid?
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: I am doubting that the particular facts, even it verified, matter very much. I am proposing that this might well be a nothingburger.
Corner Stone
@Laertes:
God. That may be the funniest thing you have ever typed here.
David Koch
jl
@catclub: You are not a reporter, so you don’t have to give specific citations for your opinion. You are not writing an accusatory story in a major newspaper.
But if you have some links and citations of governing regulations or laws, please give them.
Heck, send them on to the reporters and ask them to send you a little spare change for doing their effing job for them, that they should have done themselves.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks for the clarification!
lamh36
Alright, good night BJ. I’ve had enough popcorn for tonight. I’ll see you int he morning thread with the Anne Laurie rebuttal this here JC post, cause I know it’s coming.
Carry on.
Laertes
CS: You are a fanatic. You’re confused and angry because the only thing you understand is who’s with you and who’s against you. So when people take issue with something that Clinton has done, but claim to still be on side, you literally cannot understand. Because to you, being on side means believing anything that helps the side and disbelieving anything that doesn’t.
Fanatics suck, by the way. They’re joyless, angry, unpleasant people.
The Dangerman
@Dave C:
CS is correct that Republicans/Conservatives will generally vote for Republicans and Democrats/Liberals will generally vote for Democrats…
…that poster is disregarding that it’s the sloppy center than decides elections. Sadly, the “undecideds” (a.k.a.stupid fuckers) can be swayed by stupid shit like this.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: Are you really try to expose your ass as a dipshit?
Kropadope
@fuckwit:
It may be the email system they were using. Many email systems don’t show the email address prominently and will instead display the sender’s real name. If this were the case, that would allow her to use a personal email without anyone noticing.
steve herl
If this is true then I have to go with John. She should have never lost the 2008 election but she managed to screw that up. I hope she runs and wins in 2016, but I got a bad feeling that unlike Obama she can always snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
askew
@mai naem mobile:
Yep, and there have been stories that Clintons have been pressuring big donors to not back other candidates.
As for this story, even if Hillary broke laws it won’t matter. The diehard Hillary supporters here will back her no matter what and lash out at anyone who dares criticize her highness.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Kropadope:
@Elie:
What if it turns out she had permission to do it this way? Is it still the worst and dumbest move ever?
It seems weird to me that she resigned as S of S in 2013, she’s released tens of thousands of pages of emails to Congress, and this is only now coming up. Really, no Republican congresscritter noticed this until just now? I know Darrell Issa ain’t too bright, but come on.
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus: Are you trying to expose yourself as a zombie?
MUST….PROTECT…HILLAAARRRYYY…
How about pointing to a particular flaw in what I said instead of slinging insults?
Mandalay
@Laertes:
Quite. The State Department, Clinton’s former employer, has had to ask Clinton to be kind enough to provide them with her work-related emails. And a Clinton spokesman has confirmed that she used a personal email account when she was SoS. These are known facts.
Yet some folks here want defend the indefensible, bury their heads in the sand, and blame the NYT for a poorly written article.
.
Laertes
Okay, I’m out. Long day tomorrow. Corner Stone: Please stick around for a while and keep being wound up and angry and crazy, okay? I’ll sleep better knowing you’re still furiously tilting at windmills for all us sinners.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Omnes Omnibus: More information is needed, sure. Maybe they knew that l33t hax0rs were rummaging around the State e-mail system, or something. That’s an argument for fixing the e-mail system, not using some non-governmental e-mail, though.
I’ll be impressed if she has a reasonable explanation… :-/
Cheers,
Scott.
different-church-lady
@Carolinus:
Modern Republicans and Democrats have one thing in common: Republicans hate Democrats, and so do Democrats.
Gian
@fuckwit:
with regard to State, the reports indicate the Kerry has been using only state department email, so they probably have it together now.
what I think people are trying to suggest with the previous Secretary of State Chevron-Texaco, I mean Rice, is that perhaps Rice was doing the same thing (using private email, something like W<[email protected]) and that Hillary, just copied the previous practice. I doubt that arguing that the other driver was speeding first is the best way to go.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): If she had permission to do this, then either they made special effort to secure her personal email or someone else in the administration is also a moron.
ETA: If they had made a special provision for her to enable her to use her personal email securely, the spokesperson should also have mentioned that.
David Koch
Comments at New York Times
This is just gonna break Lady Lynn Forester de Rothschild’s heart.
jl
@lamh36: Really? Do tell? Thanks so much Lamh36. If this bobcesca knows what he is talking about, then that would explain the crap links and very vague crap language in the stories.
OTOH, it is real outrage how many people violated laws before they were passed. And it has been happening all throughout history. No doubt Clintons are the worst offenders.
I’m still suspending judgment. Let’s see if the best and brightest of our news corporations can dig up specific laws and regulations that were in force that HRC violated WHILE she was Secty of State. Then I will take this stuff seriously.
Dave C
@The Dangerman:
Well, I can only speak for myself here, but when I say that I give a shit, I am not even talking about elections. I am talking about the fact that I care about the behavior of those who govern me. If it turns out that HRC acted inappropriately here, I care about that. whether or not those actions have any electoral impact is immaterial.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: Actually, I doubt that I will support her in the WI Primary. I think that she did a good job as SoS, but it wore her out. Being president would kill her. I don’t want that.
Violet
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
Just reading this makes me tired. There is a history with the Clintons of the media writing “factually dubious” stories. Ugh. A history. Already. And Hillary hasn’t even declared.
One thing I truly appreciate with President Obama is the lack of drama. Sure, there’s been a ton of racism and other ugliness but the administration is amazingly drama-free. The famly themselves are so squeaky clean they’re like a Norman Rockwell painting. It’s been such a refreshing change. I do not relish going back to the drama of the Clinton White House years.
Mandalay
@Kropadope:
Exactly. Unless someone went to the trouble of viewing the complete email message source, all they might see is that it was from “Hillary Clinton” regardless of the actual email account used.
So while it is still remarkable that she got away with it for years, it is entirely understandable that the people she emailed saw nothing amiss.
Corner Stone
@Laertes: Sorry, friend. If you want to make this a cause celebre, please proceed.
This is nothing. Anyone with rudimentary levels of ability to take a look see that.
myiq2xu
@xenos: Liar. Show me anything I said that was bigoted.
David Koch
@lamh36: HeHeHeHeHeHeHe.
This is gonna be priceless, watching Hillbots rely on Bob Cesca
different-church-lady
@myiq2xu:
And now’s your chance for an encore!
sharl
@myiq2xu: Shoulda known Meatpr0d would slither into this thread.
Also too, what xenos said.
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus: OK, but no factual or logical errors in what I said?
askew
@Kropadope:
That’s what my work email does. I don’t know anyone’s actual email address. Lord knows what the antiquated government e-mail system(s) does.
I am curious if there are any codes of conduct or other documents from legal stating that government employees need to be using government email addresses. We have to take a test annually that shows we know we have to use work email only (as well as other privacy regs) because our work falls under HIPPA and other laws. With all the regs in place in government, I’d be surprised if there wasn’t something in writing about this.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mandalay: And legal requirements don’t matter…. Oh, wait they do.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Gian:
That’s what jl is trying to point out, though — if the policy cited was created in November of 2014, it’s impossible for Clinton to have violated it since she resigned prior to the policy being established.
Like him, I’m waiting for evidence that Clinton violated a law or policy that was in effect while she was in office before I get all worked up. Calling for her head because of a policy that was put in place after she left seems like a mug’s game.
The Dangerman
@Dave C:
I’d agree with you 100% except, to govern with integrity, one must first win the election.
John Cole +0
@Omnes Omnibus: Political instincts does not mean “I don’t like what he said about HRC.”
Fer fuck’s sake. This kind of shit is going to be an issue for HRC. This is not rocket surgery. She should have known better. This is the same kind of hubris that leads her to hire idiots like Mark Penn.
That people want to make this “he just doesn’t like her” is a comment on THEIR political instincts, not mine.
Kropadope
@Corner Stone: So, am I to understand that you never worked in an office that handled sensitive material? Anyone who has a job where email is used knows that this is a big deal.
Tree With Water
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): My initial reaction is to think it’s because that’s the way the republican party wants to treat vital public records. Hell- it’s EXACTLY like Dick Cheney treated vital public records. Does anyone else recall the shredding trucks being parked outside the VP’s residence when the clock was running out on the Bush/Cheney administration? I do. I also recall that the Washington press corps reported on it like Charles Kuralt doing a Sunday morning warm and fuzzy story about a local and harmless eccentric somewhere near Podunk, Iowa.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@askew:
So you’ve never replied to anyone’s email at work? When I do that, Outlook shows their full email address (and mine) as part of the reply. You would have to manually delete the email address to get rid of it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: I said what i said.
different-church-lady
@Carolinus:
It’s going to be hysterical watching him try to explain that the NSA has everyone’s email except Hillary’s.
askew
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
From the additional info that has already come out, the other SoS had both private and .gov email addresses and used both. Kerry only has .gov and uses it exclusively. Hillary only used her private email. That’s hinky. She didn’t do anything on .gov email address. Why not?
Dave C
@The Dangerman:
Well it’s not like I’m hoping we lose! :) I don’t think this issue itself will have a big impact. I just meant to say that actions politicians take have meaning outside of the election circus.
jl
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): lamh36 posted a link in comment 202 to the claim the law as in effect only in 2014.
My suspicions were just raised because of weasel wording in the stories, and very vague language about what HRC supposedly violated, and the CNN link to something that was not what it was advertised to be (or maybe was, due to maybe purposeful equivocation about date of effective regulations in the story).
In other words, my suspicions were aroused because the reporting in the stories was CRAP, which I may have forgotten to mention.
Decent news story comes out, I will pay attention.
Arclite
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU…!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Corner Stone
@Kropadope: How is this a big deal, precisely?
Was there a law that was broken during her tenure? A regulation? Was the email account she used secured? Encrypted?
Do you know?
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus: You said
What did I say that would lead you to ask me this?
WaterGirl
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): My best guess is that the POLICY existed for a long, long time, even if the policy was only made LAW in 2014.
I will be incredibly shocked if using a personal account for state department business was not in violation of POLICY, at least.
different-church-lady
@Dave C:
And that’s different from any other thread how?
askew
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
Of course I have. In our system, when we reply, it just shows the person’s name. I’d have to click on the properties to see more details.
Still doesn’t justify her not ever using a .gov email address. This is on her alone. She is responsible for following the guidelines/laws. I don’t get to blame my co-workers or others for not telling me I am doing something wrong. I am responsible for knowing the proper procedures. Since Hillary appears to be the only one in the Obama WH who didn’t use government emails for government business, either she is a special snowflake who doesn’t have to follow the same rules or she intentionally circumvented them.
Corner Stone
@different-church-lady: That doesn’t even make sense. But…
Mandalay
@Dave C:
There is no “if” about it. She exclusively used personal email while she was employed as SoS. A Clinton spokesman has confirmed that. And the State Department has had to ask Clinton to hand over all her personal emails relating to her work as SoS.
Given those known facts, how is it remotely possible to construct any scenario under which Clinton acted appropriately?
The absurd contortions some folks are putting themselves through on this thread are astounding.
Omnes Omnibus
@John Cole +0: John,
I don’t think you are good at anything that involves complications. Nuance is not your thing. It never has been. I have said this before. I will say it again.
Corner Stone
@different-church-lady: Lawrence O’Donnell’s tie is vibrating and pulsating!!
Kropadope
@Corner Stone: It’s a big deal because it’s sloppy, unprofessional behavior. People at the top of our government should be professionals. The law isn’t the be all and end all of what one should do. Regardless of anything else, this goes to judgment. Again, not the first example of bad judgment on her part.
askew
@Mandalay:
Just give up. They have already talked themselves into it not mattering. This is exactly what happened in 2008. Every time a new gaffe, scandal, etc. came up with Hillary, they lashed out at people bringing it up and denied that it mattered. They did that all the way until Hillary conceded. Expect the same delusion now.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@askew:
Actually, we only have information about 3 of the last 4 Sec of States. I ask again, where’s Condi in this story? Kerry is following a policy that was put in place after Clinton left office, so he doesn’t give any useful information about what was done prior to that policy. Condi’s policy probably would give some useful information since she was Hillary’s immediate predecessor, but she was left out of the story. Why?
WaterGirl
Well, we hit 250. Will it be 500 by morning? ‘Night, all.
Carolinus
@Corner Stone:
Oh come on, you’re really going to deny a reflexive hostility to all things Obama? Fine. I’ll do a quick & lazy Google search for: “balloon-juce corner stone obama”. This story is about the impropriety of a gov’t official using a private e-mail account for official business and here’s a thread about improperly weighing in on Manning’s roster of criminal acts:
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/04/25/i-dont-see-the-big-deal/#comment-2550660
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/04/25/i-dont-see-the-big-deal/#comment-2550686
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/04/25/i-dont-see-the-big-deal/#comment-2550918
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: But your argumentation is sloppy. Now what?
Corner Stone
@Kropadope:
Oooooo…kayyyy.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@askew:
Can I ask what email program you’re using? We use both Outlook and Google Mail at my office and both of those programs reveal full email addresses in the body of the email when you hit “reply.”
Kropadope
@Mandalay:
This same conversation started on the previous open thread. They managed to put my words through some pretty decent contortions also.
askew
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
Lordy. Just give it up. It doesn’t matter if Condi did exactly what Hillary did. Hillary made a boneheaded mistake. Hopefully, it is just a mistake and it isn’t because she was doing some shady shit and didn’t want it uncovered.
We’ll find out when the GOP starts the Congressional investigation that is going to happen I’m sure.
But, I as Hillary supporters have told me again and again. She is inevitable, so I guess it doesn’t matter because she’s already won the general election.
different-church-lady
I’m reminded of how the Patriots were going to get kicked out of the Super Bowl for deflating all those footballs that weren’t really all that deflated…
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus: How so?
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Mandalay:
Please present your proof that Clinton did not have permission to use her personal email account. I’m sure you have that proof at your fingertips since you’re absolutely certain she did not have permission. A link would be good, or at least a quote.
askew
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
It’s Outlook and that is how our system is programmed. I am sure you can find some way to spin this into a conspiracy. But, at the end of the day. Hillary should have known better. But, I expect nothing else from Hillary. She is the queen of self-inflicted wounds.
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): Don’t you get it? It LOOKS BAD!! LOOKS!!! IT’S ABOUT THE LOOOOOOOOOKS!!!!
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: Can you offer proof that HRC claimed something improper?
Kropadope
@different-church-lady: And security and professionalism and disclosure
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@askew:
Again, I know you hate Hillary, but is there really no chance at all that the New York Times is distorting the story and that she had permission to do this? You find it more plausible that she sent innumerable emails for four years and no one noticed what account they were coming from until two years after she left office?
jl
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): No point in bothering. The thread has dissolved into silliness and expressions of personal outrage. Which is fine, everyone enjoys the right to their own personal outrage.
I am not sure whether one should say everyone ‘enjoys the right’ to be trolled by suspiciously vague and conveniently selective news stories which may be malicious BS.
If this is a big deal we will know soon better from competently written news stories (Edit, which these are most certainly NOT) soon.
Corner Stone
@askew:
Indeed. Indeed.
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus: I never said she claimed anything. I said using personal email for business, regardless of what your job is, is unprofessional. Nice straw-manning though.
xenos
@myiq2xu: your name is shite around here, even after 7 years. Go review what you said. I have to go in to work now.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@askew:
Are you on Windows? Maybe it’s only on the Mac that Outlook shows the full email address in the body of the reply. That would be weird, but if you swear absolutely that your version of Outlook doesn’t show reply email addresses in the body of the reply, I would have to believe you.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): Our office is on Outlook and it doesn’t show other people’s email addresses in either the header or in the recipient field
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@jl:
I think we’re back at Travelgate, where it was so mmmeeeeaaannn of the Clintons to fire a guy just because he was embezzling. Didn’t they know that the White House press corps liked him?
askew
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
Because of the work we do and the size of our company, we have a ton of weird quirks to our software. I would guess the same is true of the government.
Regardless, we can spin this away and there will be another self-inflicted wound by Hillary shortly and since she is the only option for Dems we will just have to pray that she can manage to not implode until she gets into the oval office.
I just get sick of the same people who have spent years tearing Obama a new one are excusing away much more egregious behavior on Hillary’s part. Too many Geradline Ferraro’s in our party and on left blogs for my taste I guess.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): I think we’re at a PUMA flashdance/reunion.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: I asked you a simple question. Can you answer it?
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Kropadope:
Not header. Not recipient field. In the body of the email when you reply to someone.
Check it when you reply or forward an email tomorrow. Not in the header or the recipient field, in the body of the email right below where you type your reply.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Kropadope:
The funniest part is that I voted for Obama in the 2008 primary. But I guess I must be a PUMA because I pointed out that an obviously bullshit story is bullshit.
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus: You asked me to prove something I never claimed. It’s funny that you refer to it as a simple question, because I believe in logic they refer to the type of question you asked me as a “complex question.” That is, your question is framed around a falsehood.
You basically asked me a version of “so have you stopped fornicating with pigs?”
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@askew:
I also never believed that the Clintons were running drugs, or that they killed Vince Foster. Not believing every bullshit, poorly-sourced story coughed up by the NYT is just another sign of PUMA-ism, I suppose.
Omnes Omnibus
@askew: Hi, I got called an Obot a metric shiload of times. He is not running again. Now, what do we do?
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): If the email address is in the body of your email and not the header, you have other problems.
mattH
@Corner Stone:
Methinks thou doth protest too much.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): Poorly sourced apparently now means corroborated by the state department.
Groucho48
While I am not much of a Clinton fan, we really need to wait till more info is out there before we rush to judgement.
Meanwhile, just off the top of my head, Walker, Palin, Christie, the Bush Administration and Romney all used private emails to conduct government business. Romney and his staff even bought all their government hard drives and destroyed them. I suspect, if an enterprising reporter (heh) checks, every potential Rep candidate who has been in government did, as well.
Maybe Ben Carson will win by default!
Kropadope
@Groucho48: And those folks should be held accountable too.
askew
@Groucho48:
And Dems attacked all of those people for using private emails to do government business. Also, I believe all of them were doing something hinky while using those private emails. That’s worrisome. What was Hillary doing that meant she could never use a government email address?
Corner Stone
@mattH: You could have at least called me a lady.
Rude!
askew
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
Actually what you are saying here reminds me an awful lot of the bullshit excuses you were using during the Arquette blow-up. Enough that I am having a hard time believing that you supported Obama over Hillary.
TriassicSands
@Gex:
That is the one excuse that Democrats should never use. The W administration may have been the worst, most destructive presidency in American history. Nothing can be justified or excused because that incompetent dolt did it. (Or anyone in his administration.)
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Kropadope:
Really? Because here’s the super-fancy, tricky thing I just did right here on the iPad. I picked one of the various marketing emails that arrive in my email box every day, hit “reply,” and this is what showed up directly below where I would normally start typing my reply:
Tell me, how am I making this magical revelation of an email address appear? Is this a Mac (or iOS)-only trick that Windows doesn’t do?
ETA: Had to re-edit because FYWP interpreted the carets incorrectly, so I replaced them with parentheses.
askew
@Omnes Omnibus:
You can do whatever you want. I am supporting O’Malley until he decides not to run. Then I will see if there is anyone else worth supporting. As I’ve said a million times, I just can’t support Hillary. I have huge problems with her character and her policy decisions/votes. I’ll vote for her in the general but until then I am hoping that we get someone better because she is going to be a disaster.
Kropadope
That’s not an email address, that’s a username attached to the email address. Email addresses generally include an @whatever.com
ETA: Did I say generally? I meant always
Corner Stone
@askew:
Rut-roh.
Woop! Woop! Woop!
Purity Alert! Purity Alert on level Cole! All available hands!
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
Uhhh… that’s not an email address.Whoops, redacted now that I’ve seen your edit.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@askew:
Yes, because the only possible explanation for me thinking this story is bullshit is that I’m a racist.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: Honestly. You seem to be a dipshit. But then one wants to make sure you get get what you deserve.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Kropadope:
@different-church-lady:
Read the ETA.
different-church-lady
My favorite part of this story is how it gives us all a fresh reason to hate on each other.
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): Read MY ETA first!!!
Oh god… recursive ETAs… THIS IS HOW BLACK HOLES FORM!
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@different-church-lady:
Never cross the streams!
Groucho48
@askew:
Did any of them resign in disgrace? Are their calls from the media to get out of the Presidential race? Were the Sunday talk shows discussing this for a couple weeks? (I’ll bet they will be with Clinton.)
I’m not defending her, if, in fact, she broke the law. I’m saying that let’s insist that she receive the same scrutiny and the same consequence as all the other government folks who used private emails to conduct government business.
If it turns out that all her emails are saved somewhere and that what she did wasn’t illegal, then, what do you suggest should happen to her?
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): Assuming you didn’t enter that in manually, your Outlook must be configured differently than ours. Also, you need to learn what a header is. That there is a header. The body is the part you type yourself.
different-church-lady
@Groucho48:
So, as far as the attention of the general populace goes, next to none then?
Kropadope
@Groucho48:
Every one of them should get plenty of scrutiny for this practice and appropriate consequences.
different-church-lady
@Kropadope: OMG, different technologies are different! How can this be?
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus:
You keep saying these things, but not substantiating them in any way. Your like Corner Stone with less cursing.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Kropadope:
i guess I learn something every day — only Macs, iOS devices, and web mail include the email address information in the body of the email when you reply to an email, but Windows never does.
Mandalay
@Tree With Water:
Cheney was different to Clinton in one respect. Like her, he never used a government account to send emails. But unlike her, he never used a personal email account either. He simply never sent emails.
different-church-lady
@Mandalay: He did, however, once shoot a companion in the face.
I should hope if HRC ever does the same we will treat her equitably.
Kropadope
@different-church-lady: Hey, follow along (a) it’s the same program, albeit on different OSs and (b) this is Mnem’s rebuttal to my statement that “some email systems don’t display the email address.” Mnem: “duh…but mine does.”
In the conversation between Mnem and myself regarding these technologies, I’m the one here acknowledging that different systems behave differently.
Groucho48
@Kropadope:
I’d be fine with that. We should start in chronological order of when it was discovered they were doing this.
And, I do think that some of those guys definitely broke state laws when they did it. So far, we don’t know if Clinton broke any laws.
Corner Stone
@Kropadope: Of course he is substantiating them.
He’s replying to your very own comments.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): I actually just think you’re lying about it. Lord knows I’ve seen you do plenty of that tonight.
askew
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
No, but your almost hysterical arguments calling BS are very similar to your freakout when Arquette was called out for her remarks. Let’s just say it is a noticeable pattern.
different-church-lady
@Kropadope: I’ll bet there are checkboxes and menus involved. You can’t explain that….
TriassicSands
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
I don’t know the law, but I would be incredulous if it weren’t common knowledge among high-ranking government officials that one is never allowed to use a personal email account to conduct government business. And I’d be gobsmacked if that weren’t the law.
(Note: Mnemosyne, does every Apple pad and phone user absolutely have to post an advertisement with every comment and email? Doesn’t Apple allow people to opt out of being unpaid advertisers? For my part, nothing interests me less than what device or computer a person uses to send correspondence. Personally, I refuse to advertise for large, wealthy, exceedingly greedy corporations. And, no, I’m not trying to start a fight or argument and this isn’t a criticism of you. I’m genuinely curious.)
Corner Stone
@Groucho48: Sure we do. There’s an article about all of them that were broken.
Corner Stone
@TriassicSands:
Hmmmm…hmmmm…
Kropadope
@Corner Stone: He hasn’t been able to point out one false statement or logical flaw. His one attempt to engage me regarding what I was saying instead of simply insulting me, all he did was challenge me to justify a claim I never made. I called him on that logical flaw.
You can play too. What did I say that was false, illogical, or otherwise dipshit-like.
askew
@Groucho48:
I guess I don’t really care what happened to the GOP. Dems actually support government and want it to work properly unlike the GOP who hold it in disdain. So, I hold the Dems to a higher standard. And I would be unhappy that any Dem was using private email to conduct government business. There is simply no reason for this period.
I am even more disgusted that Hillary did this because her supporters have been telling me for years now that one of the biggest advantages with her as the nominee is that she has been subject to GOP attacks for years now and has experience so we won’t have to worry about anything coming out about her. She should have known that this was going to cause her candidacy headaches. If she made this kind of boneheaded move while at State, what else did she do? Are we really sure that we can trust that there isn’t anything else there?
different-church-lady
@TriassicSands: My guess is this is an alternate handle to make up for the fact that if FYWP sees the same handle coming from a different device, it marks that comment for moderation. Something in the cookies or what-not. Thus, the iPad bit was added without really thinking too hard about it.
Me, I changed my iPhone’s signature from “sent from my iPhone” to “sent from my smart phone” because even though I’m a diehard Apple user I don’t believe in using tech brand names as generic descriptions.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): Who called you a racist?
Corner Stone
@Kropadope: You admitted you knew nothing about Whitewater coverage or the Wen Ho Lee story, as examples of NYT coverage.
I’m not playing with you, child. You’re a dipshit.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@askew:
Sweetie, one of us has been hysterical throughout this entire thread, but it ain’t me. Again, I realize that you will always believe the worst of Hillary Clinton, but does it honestly seem plausible to you that she used a personal email account as the Secretary of State and no one noticed until two years after she left office?
fuckwit
OK, after reading a bit more about this, and thinking about it, I’ll cast my bet firmly on the square that says “BULLSHIT”.
I think the story is a bullshit, nothingburger hitpeice.
I was too ready to blame HRC for this, simply because I do not like or trust her, or her husband, and never have. Stories like this too easily fit the narrative of the opinion I’ve already formed of this particular political couple.
Fact: I simply do not like the Clintons, even though I share many significant and important points of ideological and policy agreement with them, and I do admire both their accomplishments, I just don’t trust either of them. I’d vote for her only if I didn’t have any better options.
Too much about this story makes no sense to me though. This means that I trust the NYT even less than I trust the Clintons. How sad is that?
Kropadope
@Corner Stone: So because I’m too young to remember the coverage of a particular issue by a particular newspaper, that makes me a dipshit?
ETA: It would be one thing if I didn’t know what Whitewater was, but I do.
different-church-lady
I’m just wondering how many times the world is not going to end before you folks start to believe the world isn’t coming to an end every day.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@TriassicSands:
I mostly do it to excuse the various autocorrect “fixes” that I inevitably don’t notice until after I hit post. I actually started doing it since some people were using their Galaxy or other smartphone name as part of their nym, but the fad may have passed.
Corner Stone
@Kropadope: It’s not about “remembrance”. It’s about awareness.
You have none, and you have clearly demonstrated all evening that you lack any semblance of same.
Knowing something called “WhitewaterGateAbuseScandal” happened is not the same thing as having an understanding about it before you open your piehole.
jl
@fuckwit: ” How sad is that? ” Sad, very sad. But less sad than wise.
ruemara
I’m fairly sure there are other gov employees here than just me & Yutsy. You can have a proper organization email and you can use your personal email. The big caveat is, if you use personal email, then you have to remember that makes your personal email subject to FIFA. I kept my gov stuff separate from my personal. I’m surprised that HRC never once used her .gov email, but I’m not utterly shocked. But, when you consider the nature of the beasts we’re dealing with in the GOP and that she’s a lot more canny than that, I’m surprised she didn’t keep the personal email out of it. That disappoints me. I expect her to be much cleverer than me and I detested the idea that I could be subject to FIFA. Is it illegal? Ehhh, that’s kinda grey. If she can retrieve what’s needed and she can, since the back and forth to decide where to go for a cup of coffee is probably backed up on quadruplicate on the WH email servers, it’s a bad practice, but not illegal. Considering no one has ever gone to jail for fucking with email servers, back ups and what have you, It’s not as much of a controversy as it should be. Sunshine laws and the fact that she got hacked, should make you question her judgement. But all this is, is a bit of mud. It’s just something that looks bad, which is important for those middle of the road morons who think their independent. If you’re like me, you’re going to vote for a small kumquat and a fiddler crab for Prez & Veep, if they have a D after their names. And that goes for every possible seat up in 2016.
Kropadope
@Corner Stone: I haven’t said jack about Whitewater and I understand the significance of it very well. What I don’t understand is why you think your scoring points by repeatedly repeating “Whitewater” at me.
myiq2xu
@xenos: IOW – you got nothing.
Mandalay
@fuckwit:
You wrote a long post berating the article without making single specific criticism.
Fact 1: The State Department stated that Clinton only used a personal email account for all her work as SoS.
Fact 2: A Clinton spokesman confirmed this.
Fact 3: The State Department had to ask Clinton to supply emails from her personal email account relating to her duties as SoS.
Are you disputing those facts? Where is the bullshit? What was wrong with the article?
TriassicSands
@different-church-lady:
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
I get messages in gmail from a friend using an iPhone and they always say (sent from my iPhone) so I’ve been assuming that it is something Apple does. I don’t have any problem with people being diehard loyalists to particular brands, but if Apple is going to force people to advertise for them, they ought to pay them.
Mnemosyne, iPhones and maybe iPads — to a lesser extent — may be great devices, but they don’t seem to be ideal devices on which to type messages. Maybe you should have a message blaming all typos on you iPad Mini — or, I guess that’s what you are saying you are doing. (I’m sure the same applies to all small devices.)
I wish B-J would have the same message editing option that a site like Mother Jones has — you can edit your own message anytime you want to — none of the five minutes nonsense.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
Last thing before bed — I can’t be the only Obot who sees that this is going to be the next Obama “scandal” as soon as it turns out it was perfectly legal for her to do this, right? It’s Hillary-bashing tonight, but it’s going to be Obama-bashing first thing in the morning. “What did Obama know about Hillary’s email and when did he know it?”
So, yes, I would prefer to defang this even if it ends up helping Hillary, because it’s going to hurt our current president, and it’s bullshit.
Kropadope
@Mandalay:
That’s how Clintonistas and Republicans do.
@TriassicSands:
My blackberry does this too. I have also seen “sent from a mobile device” from some people. Maybe they just think it’s important to let someone know the other party is on the road,
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Mandalay:
The bullshit is the article’s implication that it was either against policy or illegal for her to use her personal email address.
different-church-lady
@TriassicSands:
It’s the pre-loaded signature. It’s very easy to change, but nobody bothers doing it.
On the list of Apple’s (or any tech company’s) sins it’s gotta rank near sneaking an extra piece of candy out of the dish when aunt Betty isn’t looking.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): If Obama and/or other administration officials were involved in disclosure failures, they too should be held accountable. Same as Bush and Rove and Rmoney and Palin and all the others.
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): It was foolish. That’s bad enough.
TriassicSands
@Corner Stone:
I should have put it in this order:
I’d be shocked if the law doesn’t forbid the use of personal email accounts to conduct government business. And, if that is the law, I’d be amazed if that fact weren’t common knowledge among all high ranking government officials.
Does that help? Or are you still h(u)mming away?
It seems to me there have been numerous scandals and kerfuffles about the use of private email accounts for government business.
sharl
@ruemara: Speculation I’ve seen elsewhere – and which seems reasonable to me – is that HRC and/or someone taking dictation from her probably used SIPRNet quite a bit. For example, I’m sure nearly all the spooked-up BENGHAZI!!!1!eleventy!! stuff would have gone back-and-forth on that.
Of course, when DoS refuses to make that stuff public – BECAUSE IT’S CLASSIFIED! – it won’t matter to lazy bottom-feeding asshole “journalists” looking for a quick story, nor to the wingnuts who are gonna believe what they’re gonna believe anyway. The story will still be that she’s hiding something, she must have destroyed e-mails, yadda-yadda…
What fun it will be!
TriassicSands
OT — on the issue of FYWP — does anyone else have the problem I’m having — namely, when I finish typing a line and hit enter the whole comment box goes blank for several seconds? It’s incredibly annoying and really slows down writing a comment. I’m using Windows 8.1 on this machine and I’m way overdue to install Linux so I can quit wrestling with Windows. This “glitch” may be caused by Windows 8.1 or it could be FYWP. However, on other computers running Linux, I never have this problem.
EconWatcher
We have a pile of evidence now that HRC is a horrible manager. She thought Mark Penn was competent and couldn’t change course when it was obvious to everyone on the planet that he wasn’t. She will not be a good candidate, and if she squeaks through the election because of Republican incompetence, she will not be a good President. Somehow, some way, we have to come up with a better candidate than this.
AxelFoley
@Omnes Omnibus:
Especially with Corner Stone’s drunk posting.
Anyways, stupid fucking unforced errors by Hillary. I don’t give a fuck if the GOPers do it, too. We all know there’s a double standard for Dems, so don’t give the GOP or their media lackeys ammo to use against you.
AxelFoley
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And I can’t wait to troll them.
Steeplejack
@TriassicSands:
Why do you have to press Enter after each line? Doesn’t the text just wrap around if you keep typing? That’s the way it works for me, in both Windows 7 on the regular site and Android on the mobile site.
Also, regarding your question above about Balloon Juice nyms: those are not “something Apple does.” They are strictly what you choose to enter in the “Name” space under “Leave a Reply.” Some people distinguish among the various devices they use to comment, perhaps to explain/excuse typographical or autocorrect errors.
AxelFoley
@Carolinus:
Ether.
Morzer
Speaking for myself, me and I:
There’s a long way to go on this trail, so let’s wait a couple of days and see just how much of this story is confirmed or, for that matter, relevant to 2016. If she did keep everything on the personal account, it’s bad practice – but nothing that your typical GOP governor hasn’t been doing for years. Let’s not pretend that it is somehow uniquely awful and that ONLY HILLARY COULD HAVE DONE SUCH A THING!!!
For those Rushing to judgment:
You may now return to your fainting-couches and Sally Quinn will be along to give you a self-righteous outrage pedicure plus an adorable gift-bag made of the souls of Democrats who died from the Beltway vapors..
sharl
FWIW, here’s a twitter exchange among several Washington insider types – policy analysts & reporters (mostly). I know none of them personally, but occasionally follow 2-3 of them. (IMHO any discussion that includes Charlie Simpson and Laura Rozen is likely to be substantial.)
The bottom line for them: HRC got high marks “inside the (State Dept.) building” for her management, maybe lower marks for diplomacy (especially on Libya), but none of that insider stuff – no matter how well she did it – will matter in a political campaign. And if she really did screw up on this e-mail stuff, the wingnuts will go nuts, and the media will lap it up. They’re not happy about that prediction, just resigned to the (likely) fact that things will go down that way.
sharl
Oh, and here’s where I had seen mention of SIPRNet that I noted at comment #345.
EconWatcher
@Morzer:
Doesn’t really matter how this one pans out. If the management skills and judgment she displayed in the 2008 primaries didn’t convince you there is a problem, no amount of evidence would.
Look, there’s no doubt she is a very smart and talented person. But does she have the particular skills package of a successful candidate and president? Well, let’s see: Does she have speechmaking charisma, that could fire people up? Is she deft in defusing situations? Is she a good judge of people, in assembling successful teams? Does she manage people to assure that those below here are focused on the critical details that could make or break her? Is she flexible and agile in adjusting course where necessary?
We have signficant evidence on all of these questions from her management of the 2008 primaries. Everyone saw it. It doesn’t look so good.
burnspbesq
@Corner Stone:
Even on those exceedingly rare occasions when you’re arguably right about something, you’re a complete asshole. What the fcuk is your problem? Are you like this with clients, vendors, staff, actual people in the actual world? If not, what makes you think it’s appropriate here?
Seriously, get the help you need before you piss off some random ammosexual and get yourself shot.
Morzer
@EconWatcher:
a) There’s no shame in losing to a very, very good challenger with off=the-charts speaking skills and an excellent team. Doing so doesn’t make you incompetent – just not as good as the other person.
b) The skills of a political campaigner are not necessarily those of a good president. (See: complaints about Obama’s endless longing for grand bargains, reasonable Republicans, choice of Rahm Emmanuel etc etc).
c) 2008 was a while ago. People learn and change. Clinton was a good soldier for Obama and her colleagues and subordinates at State seem to have liked and respected her.
d) So far we’ve got a story that’s not very fully sourced and is pretty vague in what it’s actually claiming. I’ve seen this sort of thing turn out to be nothing far too often to take it at face value, especially when it comes to titillating the Clinton-haters.
I’ll put on record here that I was all in for Obama from day 1 and I have no particular affection for Bill Clinton, who strikes me as a much worse political manager than most people want to believe. Nonetheless, I am not going to take one pretty thin story as the final word on this topic – and nor should anyone else.
burnspbesq
@EconWatcher:
Let’s assume for discussion purposes that i fully agree with your critique.
Who’s the electable alternative?
Morzer
Slightly off-topic, but Booman manages to land a punch that’s got to sting both sides of the comparison:
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2015/3/2/19828/22418
EconWatcher
@burnspbesq:
I believe there would be several possibilities, but none will likely run against Hillary. While she’s a bit untested, Gillibrand seems to have some real star power. Mark Warner would certainly be a better candidate than Clinton. Heck, even the likes of a Sherrod Brown could make it interesting. We have talent available.
Morzer
@EconWatcher:
Not judging by his latest performance when he almost managed to lose his seat by running a remarkably unconvincing centrist campaign. The base isn’t going to turn out for that in 2016.
EconWatcher
@Morzer:
Well, I’d agree with you that he should have done a lot better against the likes of Ed Gillespie. But in off years, Virginia is mostly a red state; it mostly acquires its purplish hue with the higher turnout in presidential years. And the bottom line is, Warner survived in a very, very tough off year cycle, which is more electoral chops than Hillary has ever shown.
David Koch
@Morzer: It took booman 7 years to figure that out? Not to quick on the uptake, is he.
David Koch
@burnspbesq: Don’t you read blogs or watch MSNBC – why Bernie Sanders, of course.
Jewish Steel
Strange. I feel like I’ve been here before. And you were there, and you were there, and you were there.
Morzer
@EconWatcher:
She did manage to move to New York and win a couple of races there, you know. Not the easiest market to run in, especially considering that this was an era when New York had quite an appetite for electing Republicans to office.
Morzer
@David Koch:
I think some points are owed for style, at the very least.
TriassicSands
@Steeplejack:
I was in a hurry and didn’t explain that very well. The blank out happens frequently, and not just when I hit . If I want to move around in the text to change wording or correct a typo I have to use arrow keys, I might hit to create a space to separate text, and it does it then too. I hit enter if I want to create a paragraph, not at the end of a line. Right now I’m trying to get it to do it and it won’t — go figure.
There! It just did it when I was at the end of the word “figure” and hit to create the space between that line and this one. The entire comment box goes blank for 2 or 3, sometimes 4 seconds. It weird and very annoying. I have two other computers, both older than this one and running different OSs, and it never happens with them. One computer is running Deepin Linux and Windows Vista, while the other computer, even older is running Linux Mint and Vista.Business. There are no problems with any of those four different operating systems.
The really annoying thing is that if I want to create a space between lines, I have to hit twice and the comment box goes blank twice. I’ve been assuming that it is most likely a Windows 8/8.1 quirk. Sometime in the next couple of weeks I plan or hope to take the time to install a dual boot on this machine with Linux and then the problem should go away. If it doesn’t…??? (Oh, and it also happens if I use the mouse wheel inside the box or grab the slider to move up or down inside the box — and sometimes it is more like 5-7 seconds of blankness.
Tom G
Gotta love some of you guys – defense by distraction. Look, it doesn’t f-ing matter who else got away with it, or whether Rice was asked about emails. IF this is true, it’s not a smear it’s an indication that she has really poor judgment.
This is not the same as the pathetic smear attempt last week by the NY Post where they threw Bill Clinton and a few other famous names into a mud pit with an accused pedophile (I don’t remember if he was convicted and am not looking it up right now) in an indirect attack on Hilary. That was seriously weak toast and indicated to me that the mud slinging will get really bad.
If Hilary was using a personal email she needs to turn over all her State Dept emails right f-ing now – with appropriate security redactions – and make some kind of apology. NOT excuse it or brush it off.
Morzer
@Tom G:
Epstein was convicted several years ago.
The story seems to be saying that she’s done so.
Betty Cracker
@Morzer: Well said.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Morzer: The reporter was on Morning Hoe. He said that Colin Powell also used a personal E-Mail account and has not provided those E-Mails. Condi didn’t use E-Mail. So what HRC did was the same as her predecessors. The reported said the recipients knew that the HRC E-Mails were sent from a private account.
patrick II
So, who’s in the bullpen that can actually strike someone out? The party has too much invested in Hillary whether this turns into a nothingburger or not.
Patricia Kayden
So Democrats are going to not vote for Secretary Clinton because she violated email protocol? A Republican lunatic in the White House would be a better option?
Look, she messed up, but not having an official government email isn’t enough for me to not vote for her if she’s the Democratic Presidential candidate. She’ll have to explain herself and go forward. We need another Democratic President.
This is just a media-generated brouhaha to help the Republicans. I cannot imagine that the hardcore Democratic base (minorities, single women, young people) are going to switch over to support the Republican Clown Car Occupant who surfaces as their nominee just because of Secretary Clinton’s minor misconduct.
Patricia Kayden
@BillinGlendaleCA: Thank you. This is just hysteria for the sake of hysteria. Not buying into it.
Sherparick
It appears that people around Hilary don’t like to tell her “that is a real bad idea.” Whether it is who she selects, or how people react around her, they don’t tell her you live in a glass house surrounded by stone throwers, you don’t need to hand them the stones. I do note that it apparently did not become the law until last year that personal e-mail accounts could not be used for by cabinet officers for official correspondence. http://www.arma.org/r1/news/washington-policy-brief/2014/12/10/president-signs-law-modernizing-federal-information-management-practices
Tom G
So this isn’t a major MAJOR problem, but it still bothers me. It isn’t a “nothingburger”, sorry. It indicates that HRC is unable to play by the rules. Just how difficult is it to use a State Department email address? NOT VERY DIFFICULT.
This isn’t rocket science. If you are in a government position, you don’t ever use personal email addresses for official business.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Tom G: I agree it would have been a better course of action, Sec. Kerry was the first to use a departmental email addy and that was a departure from the norm.
Elizabelle
We CAN vote for a woman in 2016.
I just hope that it’s Elizabeth Warren.
Hillary’s time is behind her. She’s beholden to Wall Street.
Elizabeth Warren communicates much better, has a better message, and is fresh.
There is no way we can allow a Republican anywhere near the Oval Office in 2016. That’s not hyperbole. We will never see a sane Supreme Court again in our life. Climate Change: let’s exacerbate! Charles and David tell me it’s no big deal.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Elizabelle: I get the impression that Senator Warren doesn’t want the job, I can’t blame her.
Elizabelle
@BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, that’s possible. But she seems like the most electable Democrat out there.
Sometimes the person who does not want the job is a better fit than the person for whom it’s a lifetime ambition, but times changed on them.
different-church-lady
@Steeplejack:
Must be using the USA Today style manual.
JoeShabadoo
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I simply refuse believe that. I don’t see how someone in her position could have gotten anything done without using written correspondence and she wasn’t sending things through the post.
different-church-lady
@Morzer:
Boy, he’s right, it is a right-wing version of Firedog Lake
Kay
@Morzer:
That works the other way, too, though. Obama is a Democrat. At the end of the day if he had tanked or imploded Clinton would have stepped in and won. They both knew that, and neither one went all-out against the other. Neither damaged the other irreparably.
It will be much, much more difficult for her against an actual opponent.
Kay
It isn’t wholly Clinton’s fault that Democrats have no debate to match the energy on the Right.
We don’t have any governors. This is a huge problem. When your most popular and effective governor is 75 years old you’ve got a problem.
different-church-lady
@Morzer:
it is impossible to get a person to not believe something when their
salaryemotions depend upon their believing it.Kay
@Elizabelle:
I really like Elizabeth Warren but her area of expertise is narrow. I listened to the Congressional debate on re-authorizing NCLB and she was arguing against states rights. There’s nothing wrong with that, unless you’re doing it because you don’t know anything about the subject you’re debating. It was disappointing.
different-church-lady
@Kay: You just criticized St. Elizabeth. Prepare for Orcs to fall out of the sky shortly.
chopper
this election cycle is gonna be fun. we’re gonna party like it’s 2008.
Kay
@different-church-lady:
She does this thing that frightens me a little, where she’s expounding these broad points about “accountability” and “transparency”. Everyone loves those words!
I recognize this. Every lawyer does. She doesn’t know the specifics. Luckily there’s no one on the Right who can jump in there and exploit that, but one of them might read something at some point.
Mr. Twister
So what exactly is a “private” email account ? Was it “[email protected]”, or “HillSecState@gmail” etc. Or was it an email account on a secure State Dept. server that wasn’t in the public State Dept. email list, didn’t have a .gov in it ? So all those years HRC sent out emails and they all had “[email protected]” on them and not a single person said a word ? Really, really ?
Morzer
@Kay:
Republicans think transparency means young ladies in see-through dresses and accountability means the bank clerk calls you “Sir”.
Tom G
CNN’s article mentions “clintonemail dot com” as one domain name that was used, so that would be (for ex.) Hillary @ clintonemail.com. I’m sure several people said something, but if it wasn’t against the law, it’s tough to really enforce it. Even when you really should have…..
Whatever domain was used, did the State Department own the servers and/or provide the correct security? I don’t know whether any article has looked into that yet.
Mr. Twister
A domain name is an artificial construct that tells us nothing of where the server resided, how it was secured, backed up, controlled etc. If the server was in the State Dept. data center, then this is a non-issue.
Tom G
This might be a non-issue, but if it’s in their data center, why haven’t they released some sort of corroborating proof in the last 2 years (which seems to be about the timeline this really became a question) showing that yes her emails were definitely secured in accordance with State protocol.
It’s possible that they did, and that the news reports are leaving that out to stir up crap, but I’d begin to sound paranoid if I went down THAT line of thinking.
Even with that, she really should have used the official state.gov email system. Why are you so willing to overlook this? Is this okay for Republicans now, then? To refuse to use the usual “dot gov” emails for the office they hold?
Mr. Twister
@Tom G: I’m not overlooking anything, I just want a real explanation as to what happened. The press has a woeful track record reporting issues like this.
Bobby Thomson
Damn, you people are so easily played.
I was far from a fan of the 2008 Clinton campaign. She went too far and bloodied up Obama even after it was clear to anyone who could count that she had lost. (Kay: love ya, but the idea that Clinton pulled punches is ludicrous.).
And this is fucking nothing. Clinton did something that every SOS with email did until Kerry? And that’s cause for concern?
Nobody voted against Romney over undisclosed tax returns, and nobody will vote against Clinton over this. You all need to get a serious grip because is this is how you respond to shiny things, you forfeit your right to mock the Jake Tappers of the world.
LAC
Having worked in government in the capacity I do, this is troubling. It is not a death blow to HRC’s presidential aspirations, but it is not a nothing burger. The separation of the personal and the official is for a reason and a reasonably seasoned political vet like Clinton should know better. It is the “little” things that undermine a person’s credibility.
Cacti
I’m no great fan of the Hill and Bill show, but I tend to agree with CS (maybe for the first time).
Nobody who was inclined to vote for her is going to care about this in primary elections that are a year away, or in a general election that’s a full 20 months down the road.
Keith G
I have lost any inclination that I once may have possessed to to play the game of outrage whiplash.
I will say this, I hope there is nothing to this story since if there was a problem with HRC’s behavior, it will make Obama’s management of his administration look very lame. The “detached Prez narrative” has been a potent issue. When a new bit of bad news fits into an already perceived pattern, no good can emerge.
I do wonder about the issued raised by VOX
I hope that the last sentence above means that the White House looked at it and found that there was no legal (but a PR?) issue involved.
Hope they did and that they were right.
Repatriated
So, it only became mandatory after she left the position, none of her predecessors used a *.gov address either, and has been turning over applicable emails once the rules changed.
Nothingburger with bad optics.
LAC
@Keith G: whew .. I was hoping that we would get “ultimately, it is obama’s fault” meme out of this. Things are back to normal here.
chopper
@Cacti:
i don’t think this issue alone is going to get anybody who would have voted for her yesterday to change their mind during the general, but that’s hardly a reason to ignore the story. this fact doesn’t mean that people who will still vote for her won’t give a shit. it still looks bad.
i would have voted for her in the general in 2008 if she won the primary but i still shook my head at all of her own goals during the race.
likewise, this sort of stuff makes people a little worried. using personal emails as SoS doesn’t exactly instill those looking at the 2016 election with confidence. ignoring stories like this because on its own it won’t keep any clinton voter from pulling the lever in 2016 kinda misses that point.
Bobby Thomson
@Repatriated: this@LAC: also, too, this.
Keith G
@LAC: Any/all presidents are the last stop in the chain of responsibility, either by their direct actions and policies or by the actions of those whom they hire and choose to keep employed. I have felt that way about every president that I opposed and those I supported.
VOX and several commenters up-thread are right to raise this. And…it is why I hope that this is just a hyped story and that there are easy (and good) answers to the issues it presents.
jonas
This may be a big deal, or it may be a nothingburger. Yes, it’s odd that she apparently never had a government-issued email, but it wasn’t necessarily violating any laws or rules to use a personal account, as long as everything was archived properly. The problem is that personal emails tend to get, ahem, “lost” a lot, particularly when they contain sensitive information, and of course there are security issues. As long as no funny business about mysteriously deleted emails, etc., comes to light, this probably won’t be a huge deal.
AnonPhenom
And not using the Government’s email system, when you are the Secretary of State and you know those same people hate you just as much as they hate your husband, but instead using a private email account …
Fuck me, but the stupid burns.
askew
According to rumors in the media, senior Dems are the ones pushing this story because they are worried about Clinton baggage. Wonder if that is true.
O’Malley has passed on the Senate seat so I guess he really is going to run for president. We’ll see if he can get any media coverage or if liberal media will only talk about Warren as an alternative.
AnonPhenom
@AnonPhenom:
OR… This is some serious eleventy-three dimensional chess trolling?
.
.
No. It’s the Stupid.
askew
If this is a nothingburger of a story, Hillary’s team should be able to put out a quick statement killing this story. But, so far her team’s response has been vague and evasive. Not helping.
I am guessing the Obama admin is going to have to step in and clean up Hillary’s mess. Just one more reason why Obama should never have put her in his admin. The Clintons are always more trouble than they are worth.
I just hope that the latest rumblings about the Clinton Foundation aren’t true. If Hillary failed to keep up the transparency that she agreed to with the CF while working for Obama, I’ll be pissed.
Marc McKenzie
“…and she needs to get her shit together and win or lose or the Democrats are screwed in 2016.”
No. We need to get our shit together and stop with the fucking circular firing squad and the Rand Paul cocksucking. We need to make sure that we go after taking back Congress and make sure the White House goes to the Democrats. We need to stop putting Sanders and Warren in the Jesus Christ pose because we hate Hillary for reasons…ah whatever, we’ll come up with one. We need to organize a movement to make sure that Dems are elected and the GOP is put out to pasture.
I do have my Hillary peeves, and I may not vote for her in the primaries, but if she is the nominee I am pulling the lever for her. She is not the enemy–the GOP is, and if we allow them to get all the marbles because we’re too busy with our hard-man posturing over Hillary, they will assfuck the country even more than before.
Apologies for the foul language.
LAC
@Keith G: let me let you on a little “secret” here in the government. On matters that cover ethics issues, which the use of personal email accounts on official matters is linked to, from a GS-5 to an SES to a political appointee, your conduct and ability to follow the regulations and laws in place is your responsibility. When you take the oath of office, the code of ethical conduct is your bible, so to speak. I know that I cannot use my personal email to transmit any of my agency’s information and I am nowhere near the president (although ultimately he is my boss). Hillary Clinton has been in the federal government long enough to know better. The optics are not great and she needs to get ahead of it.
Now, while it is cute that you need to get your obama slam in and the concern trolling by something called VOX is duly noted, if it’s not a big deal to you about Clinton , why are you trying to make it a big deal for the president now?
Mr. Twister
@Marc McKenzie: Exactly.
pseudonymous in nc
I’m with Cole on this. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I was pissed off when Rove and his little helpers used private emails (whose messages somehow ‘went missing’) to launder shit while on government business, and I’m pissed off with Hillary for doing this, and for State not forcing her to use State email with federal archiving built in.
The archiving rules are a) the fucking law; b) there for a fucking reason. It might be more cumbersome, but tough shit.
LAC
@Marc McKenzie: amen to that.
Keith G
@LAC: Ooooow You have little “secrets”….yummmy.
I hope that your little secret rules the day. I do not want a presidency that I actively worked for (at the precinct and state convention level) and voted for twice to be dinged by such activities.
I hope that there was no way that the The Executive Office of the President interacted with HRC that would have caused them to be aware of the email issue. Because if HRC did break laws or guidelines (not evident yet) and if the The Executive Office of the President was aware of her actions, there seems that there might be a bit of a compliance and accountability issue.
Okay…educate me
You work in an office. Lets say that your immediate supervisor and that person’s immediate supervisor are made aware that you are violating the code of ethical conduct. What is their responsibility?
I did not work for our vaunted federal government, but I did spend many years working for local governments. My conduct and ability to follow the regulations and laws in place was my responsibility and I was assured of certain consequences were I to stray.
Finally, stop being a twit. My concern about the accountable actions of our president is not a slam. They are questions that apply to any who seek to be the leader of an organization or of a country. Your shifting the issue to me seems such a sorry defensive reflex. Live up to your governmental pay check.
Jim Treacher
Don’t panic!
Or do. :)
LAC
@Keith G: why do I bother? You are like the sober version of corner stone. You can’t learn anything, but you love to teach. The only twit here is the one that wants to play the nothing burger game and in the same breath wants to pass whatever fallout on obama’s lap.
I can recommend the office of government ethics’ website and the DOD’s “encyclopedia off ethical failure” that covers both civilians and military employees for your perusal. It should give you a better sense of what federal employees have to keep in mind while they are on the job.
And Clinton was not just a cabinet member but also a head of an agency with 80,000 employees. As other agency scandals and fallouts show(GSA dept of interior, HHS) the buck usually stops there.
Rick Taylor
Sorry, John, you’ve been had. Via digby, Michael Tomasky does some actual research and discovers that the rule Hilary Clinton violated was implemented over a year after she left the state department. Not only that, but she turned her e-mails over to the state department as required.
Always take Clinton scandals with a grain of salt.
pseudonymous in nc
@Jim Treacher: stay away from those black SUVs, “Treacher”!
Randy
I am just constantly amazed how the Democrats continue to flounder at the feet of a confederacy of GOP fools. Instead of jumping on a weak field of GOP candidates, they do equally stupid things to even out the playing field. Perhaps Hillary’s peeps knew this mistake for some time, hence the reason there’s not been a declaration of her candidacy. I just don’t see how you give the GOP more reasons to frame you as they wish on the news every night. Maybe, just maybe, there’s a Democrat — and a damn good one — who is out there right now and who is considering running now that she’s been damaged and can actually win… BIG.
Jim Treacher
LOL
different-church-lady
@Bobby Thomson:
Q.F.T.
The Raven on the Hill
That was unpleasant. It’s my new motto for the next two years.
There’s nothing else in her email. Her staff says so.
Right.
Aside from all the crazy conservative talk, there has always been something off about Hilary Clinton. It has led to failure multiple times, from the health care failure in Wm. Clinton’s administration, to her campaign in 2008, and now this. A man might be given a pass on this, but a woman? No.
Can she win? Perhaps. Will she govern well? With this record of error, it does not seem likely. A Hilary Clinton administration may be more mired in scandal and obstructionism than the Obama administration.
We so do not need this. F-, F-, F’ity F-.
The Raven on the Hill
@Rick Taylor: It’s still a very foolish thing. It’s unlikely her personal e-mail account was secure. And, even as an employee in a private business, one uses the business’s e-mail address.
Seriously, guys, I don’t think she gets a pass on this.
DAMN!
David Koch
@Rick Taylor: Digby is a joke. Hillbot to the bitter end. She rails against Obama under the false pretense that he’s not liberal enough, but she loves warmonger Hillary who is a thousand times less liberal than Obama.
David Koch
Wow. If Glenn says it’s a scandal, then it must be scandal. Surely, the people who always quote Glenn to bash Obama aren’t going to stop now that he’s training his impeccable pulitzer pen on their favorite candidate. I mean, their attacks were about principal, not personality – right?
Watching dear, dear Glenn trash and smear Hillary during the upcoming campaign will be priceless – the reactions of his Hillbot followers, now that he’s turning on them, will be worth the price of admission, alone.
Payback is a bitch.