And while we’re on the subject of Indiana today:
A major gaming convention, Gen Con, threatened on Tuesday to move its annual event out of Indiana if Gov. Mike Pence signs into law a controversial bill that would allow private businesses to deny service to homosexuals on religious grounds.
Pence has signaled he will sign the bill, possibly this week, after the Republican-controlled Indiana Senate overwhelmingly approved on Tuesday a lower-house version of the bill and moved it to the Republican governor’s desk.
Both houses had previously passed the bill, which supporters say will keep the government from forcing business owners – such as bakeries and florists who don’t want to provide services to gay couples – from acting in ways contrary to strongly held religious beliefs.
Opponents say the legislation is discriminatory. The Indianapolis Star has reported that big employers in Indiana, including tech giant Salesforce, diesel engine maker Cummins and Eskenazi Health, have opposed the measure.
On Tuesday, Seattle-based Gen Con’s Chief Executive Adrian Swartout said in a letter to the governor that diverse attendance is important to its annual convention, which it says has a $50 million yearly impact on Indianapolis.
You know, Mr. Swartout, Cincinnati is just a hour away from Indy if you’re looking for a nice centralized Midwest location to hold Gen Con in the future. Ohio hasn’t managed to foul up on a Hobby Lobby bill quite yet.
No shoes, no shirt, fag, no service.
Somehow, this issue never came up in “Parks & Recreation” or in “The Middle”.
So which way is Indiana going? Is this going to fly there?
ETA- fixed my spelling
Not to say it hasn’t happened, but haven’t yet seen mention of any Indy 500 racers publicly opposing the bill.
So can we please force Indiana businesses who comply with this shit to post “Straights Only” signs in their window. I recommend a large minimum sign size and garish color, perhaps like this sign from not that long ago in South Africa.
Indiana and the several other states that are going along with this blatantly discriminatory “religious freedom” are taking a page right from the former pariah nation of P.W. Botha.
I’m also down for Bono and friends doing an “I ain’t gonna play Indianapolis city” re-do of the old protest song.
Bakers and florists establishing a beachhead against the evils of gay marriage.
Ohio means Ohio cops, which means NO.
Oh boy…this means that Gen Con is fascist, according to the wingnut playbook.
I have a friend who is trans and self identifies as a libertarian who thinks that the government shouldn’t be in the business of forcing businesses to serve people they don’t want to because “freedumb”.
I don’t get it.
OK, this blows my mind! (I graduated from TCU in ’87)
I know the Disciples have changed from when I was a closet-case in college, but wow. Wow. (I’m a UU, but it was a good school for me. The conservative culture there repelled me to the point of becoming quite the liberal campus activist. In fact we did a ton of anti-apartheid/divestment work on that campus)
Villago Delenda Est
This sort of crap is going to precipitate a North American version of the 30 Years’ War, much to the distress of our departed Founding Fathers who put in all that church/state separation stuff in the Constitution to preclude exactly that.
Love the thread title.
Villago Delenda Est
@satby: Your friend is confused on multiple levels.
In one of the articles about this, one of the quoted sources (tourism official, iirc) claimed that Illinois already has a law like this in order to rule out Chicago as a competing site. That seems unlikely. Anyone know if he was just blowing smoke?
Meanwhile in Georgia:
Georgia’s version of this religious liberty bill has already passed the state senate, but is running into trouble in the house, where even the speaker, a Republican, has expressed skepticism about the legislation.
I live in Indy. A lot of businesses are putting “we serve everyone” stickers on their doors. I’m hoping someone will put “it’s against my religion to serve republicans” stickers in their windows. So what happens when someone refuses to serve a mixed-race couple because they religiously oppose mixing of races. Or perhaps “no Jews” allowed. Indy gets the NCAA Final Four about every 5 years. Perhaps they should speak up. After all their offices are only a couple of blocks away from the State House.
@satby: That’s fine, but I don’t think the government should be in the business of making sure I don’t go to those stores and hang out in my underwear.
@Hal: Is this behind the firing of the White House Flower arranger? Just asking questions!
I think that should be a fair amendment to this legislation. If your a bigot, you should show it loud and proud; if you end up losing business in the process, well you can always turn to your church for charity bake sales.
The current iteration of the NCAA is a joke. I’m not holding my breath that they take a stand on anything.
I think over time the word will spread locally and those that feel the need to wear their religious freedom on their arm will gradually see a decrease in their business. Especially as same sex anything becomes mainstream.
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that said trans libertarian friend is white, and therefore less likely than other groups to be discriminated against in the first place?
If the trans libertarian isn’t white, well … I dunno what to think then. :)
Somehow I missed the headline noting that the Confederacy had successfully invaded the upper Midwest. Hopefully there’s an upside to that; have y’all noticed the food getting any more interesting?
Villago Delenda Est
@jeffreyw: The White House florist left her position to spend more time with her flowers.
It would seem that this site has super secret scripts that turns Mozilla into a zombie…on explorer now.
@trollhattan: I have heard it said that Indiana is the south’s middle finger.
I’ve seen comments that this bill applies to employees also, not just businesses. So if a single employee doesn’t want to serve a customer, they can’t be fired for the action if it’s based on religious objections. This could really screw up the reputation of a business. Does anyone know if this is true?
Open thread? Good.
BZZZT BZZZT BZZT BZZZZZZZZZZZT
This is a message from the BJ Emergency Warning System.
Run for the hills. Global warming disaster looms. The Gulf Stream will shut down, all the ice in Antarctica and Geenland will melt, the sea will rise a few meters. Probably before the weekend.
Jindal: WH Shouldn’t Use FEMA To Push Climate Change Ideology
“This preparation saves lives,” Jindal said in a statement to the Washington Times. “The White House should not use it for political leverage to force acquiescence to their left-wing ideology.”
At least Jindal hasn’t made fun or earthquake or tornado warning systems yet.
PS: we are now doomed.
I think this is a big deal. Not quite Snowden big deal, but a horrible aspect of state secrecy – gotten worse.
Government lawyers enter court case between two private litigants, tell Judge ( closing out BOTH lawyers) that the case cannot continue due to state secrets. Tell judge he cannot give any more useful reason. Judge cannot even say WHICH government Agency wants case stopped.
@gene108: They don’t have NCAA tournament games in South Carolina because that state refuses to get rid of the Confederate flag outside of the state house.
The more I hear from well-groomed morons like Jindal and Cruz, the more I question the whole “benefits-of-an-elite-higher-education” thing.
Steve in the ATL
@Hal: Georgia is full of embarrassing ignorant rednecks, some of whom get elected governor, but in Georgia dollars usually trump wingnuttery. We don’t want to scare off corporate headquarters and conventions.
Open thread needz moar kitteh!
@RaflW: even back in the 80s, there were a lot of liberal Disciples congregations. My impression is that there aren’t as many these days. The denomination historically has allowed a great deal of autonomy to local congregations. This is a BFD regardless.
my wifey wrote a little piece on playing the victim, if you’re interested.
We’ve discussed GEICO ads before here. The free-range hen, the Words Can Hurt… But his one reminded me of Balloon-Juice comments about pups who rule the roost:
Dog enters freeze-frame commercial and devours the family dinner.
@trollhattan: oh, honey. Have you never been to Indiana? This isn’t new.
Villago Delenda Est
@catclub: “We can’t tell you why you can’t proceed with this trial, Your Honor”
“Oh, really. Bailiff, escort these gentlemen to a cell to contemplate their navels.”
@indycat32: or this!
@trollhattan: There is also a funny clip around of some FL state legislators trying to make a state executive flunky say ‘global warming’ at a hearing. (Edit: or climate change, or anything acknowledging such a thing may exist. The flunky was very careful in his working, leading to hilarity.)
It really boggles my mind how anyone can do responsible long run ‘hazard mitigation planning’ without at least acknowledging the possibility that there will be a trend in certain risk factors that are associated with climate change.
But, it is we liberals who are pushing ideology and being unreasonable and endangering lives.
These reactionaries need to be politically obliterated, politically speaking. I hope they all live long happy, very private, lives after they are turned out of office.
@Villago Delenda Est: One might wish. Check the link. The judge was cowed by the government lawyers.
So how is this new law any different than the Sharia law that we are supposed to fear so much? Aren’t they basically the same thing in principle?
@Germy Shoemangler: Saw that…reminiscent of Police Squad! freeze frame end of show hijinks.
A lot of them there Indycar racers are furriners and therefore, suspect. Now, if the NASCAR boys raise a ruckus (totally that’s gonna happen) then you’re on to something.
@RaflW: THIS. So much this. I can’t wait to see those signs – and shop/dine elsewhere.
ETA: I can see Salesforce and healthcare companies having problems with this idiocy, but Cummins? Wow.
I hope so too!
No because Muslim.
The parents had the good sense to decamp liberal Iowa when I was a toddler so nope, no hands-on experience. But since it’s also infected Wisconsin, Ohio and the like it seems to be either worse or at least a lot less inconspicuous than ever. They’re backwards and
damndang proud of it!
It’s amazing that Utah can pass a non discrimination bill, backed by the Mormon church, but the corn fed chuckleheads in Indiana insist on shooting themselves in the feet.
@Villago Delenda Est: From what I read, the government went into a private conference with the judge, who then returned and ended the trial. He got told stuff that couldn’t be released.
Origins game con (smaller but not inconsiderable) is already in Columbus about a month earlier each year. :)
Gin & Tonic
@Mike J: Mormons can count.
@trollhattan: to be sure, the always-present confederate strain is growing more pronounced the past few years. As noted in an earlier thread, Team We’re from Safely Blue Illinois–Rent Us for Free kicked ass canvassing in Indy in 2008. In 2012, we just kept driving across the top of Indiana to get to Ohio for GOTV work.
CONCORD, N.H. — A Dartmouth College fraternity with a history of hazing and alcohol violations has been accused of branding new members while under suspension last fall.
Alpha Delta, which partly inspired the 1978 movie “Animal House,” has a significant record of disciplinary violations, including hazing, serving alcohol to minors and hosting unregistered parties. College spokesman Justin Anderson said the recent allegations, first reported by the website Gawker, involve incidents that happened last fall, when the fraternity was suspended for previous policy violations.
Anderson declined to discuss details of the allegations, including how many students may have been branded or what they may have been branded with, but the college has described the fraternity’s previous behavior.
Hmmm … apparently the Voting Rights Act is still a thing, even in Judge Roy Moore’s Alabammy.
I distinctly remember being told that Shelby County would render the VRA unenforceable. Since then, we have a Supreme Court decision finding and overturning a racial gerrymander in Alabama, a District Court decision holding, based on what appear to most observers to be appeal-proof findings of fact after a full trial on the merits, that the Texas voter ID law is racially discriminatory, and what looks likely to be a slam-dunk win for the good guys in North Carolina. Artisanal, small-batch, free-range data? Or an actual trend? Inquiring minds want to know.
Newer dictionaries seem to have changed, but my trusty old 10-lb. leather-bound dictionary defines Hoosier as “an ignorant rustic.”
@Pee Cee: I’ve seen a recent online discussion in which a (white) gay liberal commenter started out balking at laws and rulings forcing private businesses to accommodate same-sex weddings, on personal-freedom grounds… until someone made the analogy to race, at which point he saw the problem and changed his mind.
In case you’ve forgotten, the modern version of the Klan was founded in Indiana.
Really wish I didn’t have to drive through Indiana twice about 6 weeks from now. Unfortunately, driving south through Kentucky to get around it isn’t a suitable option.
“Branding” as in searing flesh with heated metal, and not copyrighting them or something? That kind of branding?
Who the fig does that?!?
Meanwhile over at Wapo Glenn Kessler is giving people tips on how to remodel their kitchens for the modest price of $100K. I tweeted him that $100K is what most people can budget to buy a fucking house let alone remodel a kitchen. And reporters wonder why people think they are out of touch.
@Pee Cee: Of course she is. And she gets offended when I point out that her thinking is mushy (to put it kindly, which I sometimes don’t manage). She was a PIA when she presented as a he, so some stuff never changes I guess.
@John D.: Dude, Ohio already has Origins in Columbus (second largest gaming con in the nation).
I haven’t been to GenCon since it moved out of Milwaukee. A fun time to people watch, and the vendor hall was a great place to lose money. But I can live with or without the experience these days.
OED lists has someone from Indiana as the “A” definition and “An inexperienced, awkward, or unsophisticated person” as the “B”. The great thing about OED is it lists the first time in print for each. Indiana native 1826 (“The Indiana hoosiers that came out last fall is settled from 2 to 4 milds of us.” Chi Trib) and hick is 1846 (“Old King is one of the most perfect samples of a Hoosier Texan I have met with. Fat, chubby, ignorant, and loquacious as Sancho Panza..we could believe nothing he said.”)
@trollhattan: Future captains of industry and government. Think tank thinkers sharing wisdom on the PBS News Hour. Dartmouth students.
Whoo, we just sneaked under that by a few tens of thousands, so that was close I guess!
How many Thermomixes for a hundred k?
@trollhattan: I’ve seen this brand more than a few times, it’s a thing amongst black fraternities
Nice speech by Obama on anniversary of ACA. Just heard a clip on the radio. Only transcript up so far at WH
Remarks by the President Marking the Fifth Anniversary of the Affordable Care Act
” The Affordable Care Act pretty much was their [GOP] plan before I adopted it (laughter) based on conservative, market-based principles developed by the Heritage Foundation and supported by Republicans in Congress, and deployed by a guy named Mitt Romney in Massachusetts to great effect. If they want to take credit for this law, they can. I’m happy to share it. (Laughter.) ”
I know it is very debatable whether the MA plan or the ACA is really a descendant of the Heritage plan (or BS head-fake), but why not be generous, even perhaps through a white lie? I am sure our worthless corporate media will note how Obama is willing to share ideological credit and give him some brownie points and a gold star for that gesture.
I went to college with Indiana Governor Mike “Jesus’ favorite” Pence. It’s fun reading all the Facebook comments from my classmates saying “Pence always was a prick.”
I went to a little liberal arts college that didn’t do the Greek thing, so I’ve always failed to spot the attraction for anyone younger than my parents and more sophisticated than Bluto.
Is there something about bakeries and floral shops that attract religious zealots as owners? Cause that seems to be the business’s always mentioned. I mean, yes, gay marriage and all….but would this apply to any business. Two guys go into a diner for breakfast. The hostess suspects they might be…you know. Can she refuse to seat them? Two guys drive into a gas station. No chick in the car. Can the attendant get suspicious and refuse them gas?
@Woodrowfan: Leaving aside his prickdom, tell us: did he seem dumber than a rock even then?
Villago Delenda Est
@shell: Assuming facts not in evidence is one of the cornerstones of the bigoted mind.
@shell: It’s bakeries and florists because they don’t want to participate in gay marriages officiated by SATAN! They’re too busy creating pastries and bouquets for hets on their third marriages.
ETA: never mind; you said that.
My life has gone from minor tragedy to black comedy. Two days ago I had to turn around on my way to work because my check engine light came on and the engine started doing a fairly scary shudder/choke thing. It was snowing, and I was about 20 miles from home so I drove straight to the repair place i use (which BTW still hasn’t even looked at the car to tell me what’s wrong). Because I couldn’t miss more work, this morning my neighbor lent me his car to get in to attend an important meeting and to catch up on my clients. Made the meeting and one stop to place a client for a work evaluation, got back in the borrowed car, started the engine, and guess what came on?
Yeah, his check engine light. So I brought it back to him and notified my boss I was home again.
Seriously, this would be rejected as a movie script as too cartoonish.
The Walking Dead summed up in one photo:
Germy Shoemangler (from the other thread) ” I could say I’m observing personality traits, or it could be the time of day I happen to catch them. It’s a crap shoot. Trust your gut.”
Once we were looking for cats. My GF picked out a very pretty one, and I had this other one plopped into my hands because Of Course Littermates.
This kitten, in 36 hours, had been taken from its mother and only home (under a porch), got its first human handling, injections, and all sorts of disruption. So naturally she went “Reearr” with that cute little failed-ferocious squeak only kittens can make, holding out her little
pinsnails. At which point both my GF and the foster raiser chided “Now cut that out!”
And worried little me asked “Is she gonna stay like that?”
Said kitten bonded, inseperably, with me in about four days. I had no idea that was unusual until GF (now wife) told me, “You realize that this is a very special cat.”
Hopefully in the intervening years and years I’ve developed a gut instinct I can trust.
Hmm, so they’re not advertising watches after all. Who knew?
@shortstop: yes, but he thought he was really smart. creepy even then…
@trollhattan: You know what time it is ;-)
@shortstop: I’m curious about what is going in their minds also.
How much of it is that they just will not make any cake or arrangement at all for events the disapprove of?
How much is fear of being forced to make p * n * s cakes?
Seems to me that a bakery could refuse to make what they consider to be obscene cakes without discriminating.
But I am curious. How many perfectly ordinary cakes are considered violations of these bakers religious freedom?
How many are being asked to make nasty looking cakes?
I don’t know, but seems like mostly the former.
If they were being asked to make obscene cakes the stories would be a lot more interesting.
@jl: But Baby Jesus weeps every time they’re forced to put two little plastic men or two little plastic women on top of a wedding cake. It just ain’t rahht.
@trollhattan: That would explain all the fucking rebel flags I see displayed in my part of Michigan.
@Litlebritdifrnt: On Twitter he does say it’s tips for a high-end kitchen renovation, so maybe your tweet got to him? I checked it out and I dunno…I think it’s ugly. The appliances sound very high end–Thermador range, Miele fridge, etc.
@shell: As I commented in a previous thread, how long befre a woman is denied services – buying a car, opening a checking account, etc. – because her husband isn’t present.
@Litlebritdifrnt: Depends where you live. In the whole of Seattle, there are no homes for sale for under $100,000 at all.
@trollhattan: the pledges had a choice. They could get out of a bunch of things (forced drinking, etc.) if they chose to be branded.
The pres of Dartmouth was in the same house. Will be interesting.
@jl: We need separation of Church and Cake.
@satby: Does your friend plan to open a nightclub and want to keep all the suburban fatties out? I once heard a gay dude argue in defense of retail discrimination using that hypothetical.
Per CNN front page:
The Army is going for the knockout blow vs. Bowe Bergdahl.
Desertion and misbehavior before the enemy. Yikes.
Realio Truelio Xians know better than God and the Baby Jebus what is will be in their inerrant minds and what their final Judgement will be on the day of reckoning , so same Realio-Truelios have taken it upon themselves to supplant and anticipate the Lord on Judgement Day and judge and condemn people Now and make life on earth an eternal hell of punishment right away, rather than waiting and trusting for their Lord to make up his own mind on the subject. Jebus was just an unnecessary (and possibly untrustworthy) layer of middle management they’ve gotten rid of and preemptively do the work of.
Can’t believe no one’s mentioned the big news of the day–Zayn has officially left One Direction! Gasp!
@jl: I’ve followed this pretty closely. In the handful of cases in which this is an issue (now being blown up by wingnuts as evidence of mass persecution of Christians), the would-be customers simply wanted wedding cakes. Nothing “obscene” about the requests, only the denial of service on grounds of religion.
As you may know, the bible says Jesus was quite clear that divorce and remarriage = adultery except when infidelity is the cause of the divorce. In all the cases getting widespread attention, the bakers and florists happily served customers getting second marriages, presumably without asking them what broke up the first union. It seems that “being forced to participate in sin” very much depends on how the vendor feels about that particular “sin.”
@jl: The only times I’ve seen p*nis cakes are at straight bachelorette parties.
@shortstop: They’re highly selective: notice how the Prosperity Gospels conveniently forget about the “thou shalt not covet…” lines in the Ten
@Germy Shoemangler: Well then they just have to require that the happy couple supplies their own little plastic people. Problem solved!
Whoa, not expecting that. Wonder what they dug up, besides anecdotes from his former teammates?
Ugh, my dog’s agitation just reminded me that heavy rain is moving into the area. And can you fucking believe it? There’s a chance of snow Friday night. Christ!
Tree With Water
The entire South (and their fellow traveling states elsewhere) will economically suffer in the long run for their backward clinging ways. It’s a price the region’s people have historically been willing to pay, sad to say. As the world turns, however, the South’s increasingly reactionary behavior will serve to repulse it. Our Southern states will be considered pariahs the way they’re going, as surely as South Africa once was, and Israel is on the cusp of becoming.
@burnspbesq: Hell, they even elected a governor who was a Klansman.
Gen Con should take a look at Pittsburgh. The Iron City has hosted Furry conventions for years, and apparently everybody’s happy. Gen Com would seem really tame.
@Tree With Water: How many years do you give the south and its FTS (love that) before they stop blaming blah people, gheys, feminazis, immigrants and other Others for their own misery? I’m going with infinite.
Kudos to the companies, churches, conventions & others who are signalling that this is a terrible bill.
I know that there are many religious people who don’t support this type of odious garbage.
If you don’t want to accommodate people who come to your business then maybe you should close the business.
Gen Con started in Wisconsin. Not sure why they were compelled to move to Indy, but it is no loss to the convention to move again.
Tree With Water
@shortstop: As always, I counsel look at the state party in California to see where the national republican party is headed- and sooner rather than later.
@Benw: You missed it. No shoes, no shirt, no homo.
@Germy Shoemangler: Lot of the Omega’s at UGA do a brand with a heated coat hanger.
@Omnes Omnibus: Back in my drinkin days I bartended at this joint off campous that was a hangout for the “Q”‘s but the Alpha’s would show up from time to time. Fun times!
They want the right to be dicks to people without having to suffer any consequences. Period. If they just didn’t want to do weddings for gay people, they would mysteriously be “booked up” on the dates those gay couples wanted.
So what they’re fighting for is the right to be rude to people’s faces and not be penalized for it.
Spin Based Reality
As someone who has attended GenCon the past couple years and has their hotel room booked for GenCon again this year. It’s a blast.
GenCon is in Indianapolis because GenCon is HUGE. GenCon takes over the city.
Indianapolis has a huge convention center linked to a large network of hotels via skyway. GenCon basically comes in and books every hotel room within a 30 minute drive a half year in advance and books every square foot of conference facilities in Hotels linked or close to the skyway network. Game companies come in and effectively rent out the local restaurants as advertising. The city shuts down side streets to dedicate to an army of food trunks. The scheduling grid for GenCon last year started at 9,000+ scheduled events at event registration time and they kept adding things to the grid that I lost track of.
I’m personally not aware of any convention facilities available in the US that could accommodate GenCon as well as Indianapolis.
With that said gaming conventions and nerd/geek culture in general represent a wide range of people that have a history of being mistreated by the wider culture at large. If exposure to sub cultures that you may not agree with upsets you then you’re not going to have a good time at this events. And we’re not talking Furrys here.
If reports of discrimination by local businesses against attendees start rolling in then drama WILL happen and I think GenCon basically published this note as a notice to local businesses and partners. I honestly doubt much will happen because the city is not as batshit crazy as the rest of the state.
@Violet: Significantly high-end, though not quite to the Wolf/Viking/Smeg/Subzero grade of OMEFFSM ridiculously excessive (Thermador is actually both a solid manufacturer for kitchen appliances and a fairly decent investment in a home, so among the few “remodel” options it can potentially pay for itself on selling as well as in daily use; Miele is getting more interesting now that the euro is 90-odd cents instead of $1.25 where the prices are pegged). I priced out Mum’s replacement kitchen a few years back and Thermador came in about $1000 above the Bosch suite we settled on (in a kitchen remodel that didn’t hit $20k while adding boatloads of cabinetry and taking out a wall). OTOH it’s one more example of how out-of-touch the Beltway can be.
Yaaaaaaaaay! Gaming convention in Cincy gogogo!
Well, sometimes they do…
The food has long been interesting in upper Midwestern cities.
Gen Con moved because it had gotten too large and needed a venue that could handle the numbers and for expected expansion.
*Stealth check with Hide In Plain Sight feat, rolls die*
@El Caganer: Nooo! Bring it back to Milwaukee! I’d love to be able to day trip Gen Con once again.
Another Holocene Human
@Villago Delenda Est: Sounds like one of those rebels who thinks libertarianism is cool because “live and let live, man” and they want to be free to defy society’s conventions, not realizing it is liberalism that allows them to do that, not law of the jungle might makes right libertarianism.
Or maybe they think they’ll be the rich ones.
Another Holocene Human
@philpm: Take the train and sleep through it.
Another Holocene Human
@shell: bakeries and floral shops are not terribly profitable, so there’s that
Another Holocene Human
@Wally Ballou: Some of them come by it honestly, if you’ll forgive the figure of speech–their greats came to MI from MS and AL for work in the early 20th century.
Another Holocene Human
In a sense, nightclubs and high end restaurants are allowed to discriminate in this way. It’s not illegal.
You don’t even have to be a private club. Dress code, bouncers … has anyone ever lost this sort of lawsuit?
There are a lot of nightclubs who attempt to racially segregate their “crowd” using “dress code” to skirt the protected class issue.
Another Holocene Human
@Linnaeus: beer brats dead green beans and greasy cheese sauce are “interesting”?
Chicago has awesome food, though.
@Another Holocene Human: Linnaeus said cities. What you’re thinking of in Chicago–enormous ethnic variety and some really accomplished chefs–is true of other upper Midwestern urban areas.
Since it’s an open thread, here’s a disturbing report about the German air crash.
If true, what could explain this? Theories I’ve heard so far have been that the pilot in the cockpit was unconscious, suicidal, already dead, or under duress by someone else in the cockpit, but if they were having a conversation before the locked out pilot left, that’s an awfully short period of time fall unconscious from illness or outside action, or for someone else to sneak into the cockpit. Sudden heart attack? Suicide?
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@GMVictory: Hide in Plain Sight isn’t a feat; it’s a class ability.
*goes back to working with Hero Lab editor*