Today’s Twitter tempest in teacup, per Dave Weigel at Bloomberg Politics:
… On Monday, Vox‘s Max Fisher introduced [Trevor] Noah to readers with “seven of his funniest clips,” and predicted that the host would make his show “a fresh and perhaps invaluable contribution to how we talk—and joke—about race and nationality.” He proved it, with a dive into Noah’s popular videos, pulling out solid routines about how bad Africans looked in famine relief ads and how mixed-race people get “upgraded to black” when they’re famous.
Yet within a day, there was dissent within Vox; writer Kelsey McKinney was explaining why Noah might be unfit to lead TDS. “A Daily Show host should be held to a higher standard than other comedians,” she wrote in regard to the tweets. “These jokes are offensive because they are reflections of cultures that are oppressive and privileged—and rather than being critical of those societal constructions, the jokes instead reinforce them.”
In another era, like when Stewart took over TDS, a couple of clunkers about race and gender would have been just that—clunkers. The audience groans, the show moves on. But the show plays a larger role in progressive life and thought than anyone could have expected when Stewart took the job…
Implicit in that analysis: The elevated status of The Colbert Report, and The Daily Show, meant that they needed to enrich their viewers as well as entertaining them. The phenomenal success of John Oliver’s HBO spinoff of TDS, Last Week Tonight, has not entirely been about his humor. Oliver’s monologues show up on progressive sites, on Monday mornings, as viral explainers for things that are Wrong With America. The brand of satire Stewart invented now plays for progressives the role that Fox News or talk radio plays for conservatives.
In his Vox analysis of why Noah would work, Fisher insisted that a South African comic with routines that challenged people’s hidebound views of race was just what the show needed. It wasn’t just a way for Comedy Central to avoid replacing Stewart with a carbon copy. “Americans love to hear themselves mocked by foreigners,” wrote Fisher. “It’s a low-stakes way of talking about American problems and weird habits, and there’s also a real degree of narcissism to it: people just like hearing about themselves.”…
Just not quite as much as they like hearing themselves talk!
Apart from the usual circular firing squads, what’s on the agenda for the evening?
HinTN
This, too, shall high pass.
Citizen Alan
Hasn’t part of the controversy been that he’s said some things that sounded anti-Jewish … and then, it was revealed that he IS Jewish.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Kelsey McKinney needs to get out more, maybe, I think.
I guess Weigel has a point, but that phrase brought me up short
different-church-lady
Obviously he’s talking about some version of America I’m unfamiliar with.
beltane
@Citizen Alan: He said things that were critical of Israel, which is worse than saying things that are actually anti-Jewish.
Brachiator
Proving once again that some progressives have no sense of humor, irony, … hell, just no sense.
David Koch
I suspect The Daily Show will move away from focusing on politics and exposing Fixxed News/republican lies towards making fun of culture, much like the show was when it was hosted by Craig Kilborn.
different-church-lady
@Brachiator:
Please keep up with the daily briefings.
different-church-lady
@David Koch: I have no idea how they’d pull off that regression successfully.
beltane
@Brachiator: Maybe TDS should change its format to a round table discussion of the role of humor in reinforcing societal constructions of privilege in oppressive cultures. That would be good for ratings, I’m sure.
David Koch
I wonder how Weigel feels about his hero Rand Paul saying gays don’t deserve rights and Armageddon will occur if gay marriage isn’t stopped.
David Koch
@beltane: isn’t Wilmore already doing that on TNS
beltane
@David Koch: The Republicans must be angling to use gay marriage as a pretext for attacking Iran, a country that also doesn’t allow gay marriage.
different-church-lady
@beltane: If you don’t include intersectionallity it’s a non-starter.
Brachiator
@beltane:
After watching the clip of Noah, I’m still marveling over the Privilege Patrol criticizing a guy born under South African apartheid about anything.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@different-church-lady: @Brachiator: If this provokes another Chait tantrum about political correctness I swear I’ll never watch…. what’s his name again? again
Anne Laurie
@David Koch: No you don’t, because Weigel’s been mocking Rand Paul for years, not least in his Twitter feed today:
… but, hey, you’re welcome to go hang with the Humorless Progressives — don’t let the door hit you in the arse on your way out!
Kathleen
This reminds of the Seinfeld episode in which Jerry’s dentist, Dr. Dennis Watley (played by Brian Cranston) converted to Judaism so he could tell Jewish jokes. When Jerry told a priest he was offended, the priest asked, “Are you offended because you’re Jewish?”. Jerry replied, “No. I’m offended because I’m a comedian”.
Tree With Water
“Just not quite as much as they like hearing themselves talk!”.
Isn’t that the truth. Wouldn’t be any blogs if otherwise..
LanceThruster
Remember how Colbert established that Sarah Palin authorized the use of the word ‘retard’?
Classic.
Cervantes
Dave Weigel:
Superficially true, at best.
lamh36
I hope TDS and Comedy Central says fuck twitter. I’ve seen Noah’s comedy and seen him a random things and I like him. He has an interesting story, ya know the whole interracial baby born during apartheid thing!!! And he’s able to tell his story pretty darn humorously.
I don’t really watch TDS much anyway. I catch clips mostly or when someone I like it on. After hearing about Noah, I was actually gonna really give it another go if TDS bows to stupid twitter “outrage of the day” pressure, I don’t care who they give the job to, I won’t even give it any chance.
And if anyone here believes that if Jessica Williams had been given the chance or had taken the chance to host, that some dick somewhere would find some tweets of hers that they take umbrage to, I’ve got some magic beans for ya.
chopper
@Citizen Alan:
I think his maternal grandfather was Jewish.
JPL
@Cervantes: Fox news is under the entertainment division, so there is a connection. Unfortunately, most that watch Fox news channel don’t realize that it is under the entertainment division.
chopper
@Brachiator:
being born a black dude in apartheid south africa doesn’t automatically give you a pass from women when it comes to making ‘fat chick’ jokes, does it?
WaterGirl
@lamh36: Is there a word missing from your last sentence?
David Koch
@Anne Laurie: Weigel is a registered republican who voted for Huntsman and later Garry Johnson (who campaigned against woman’s rights). That’s some progressive. More like a bro-gressive.
Nice try.
Mike J
Why didn’t Comedy Central nominate Loretta Lynch for TDS host?
beltane
Breaking: An agreement with Iran has possibly been reached http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/31/1374730/-Iran-P5-1-Nations-Arrive-at-Nuclear-Agreement
Violet
@lamh36: I like Trevor Noah too. Think he’s funny and smart. Looking forward to seeing what he’s going to do.
OT–but saw that NBC is doing “The Wiz” for their next musical. Remembered you’d mentioned something about that. Wondered what you thought.
Mike J
@David Koch: Weigel isn’t anywhere near being liberal. He is, however, as close to honest as any Republican gets. When Republicans do something stupid, he’ll say it’s stupid. It’s valuable to get stories from a Republican, and he;s somebody that many of us can stomach more than most.
Tree With Water
You had to be there, and even at the time I didn’t know his name. But let us pause here, to remember one who seized a dumb idea and ran with it all the way to the bank:
“It was a craze to rival the Hula-Hoop, and even less explicable. For a mere three dollars and 95 cents, a consumer could buy … a rock — a plain, ordinary, egg-shaped rock of the kind one could dig up in almost any backyard.
The wonder of it was, for a few frenzied months in 1975, more than a million consumers did, becoming the proud if slightly abashed owners of Pet Rocks, the fad that Newsweek later called “one of the most ridiculously successful marketing schemes ever.”
Gary Dahl, the man behind that scheme — described variously as a marketing genius and a genial mountebank — died on March 23 at 78..”.
msdc
@lamh36:
Obviously this is the most important qualification for hosting a comedy show.
Baud
Comedy Central should have selected me. I’m highly inoffensive.
NotMax
Watched Daily Show once and didn’t care for it. Tried to watch it again when a friend was an intern there, but finally had to tell him I found it trite, predictable, and too prone to go for the cheap laugh.
Watched Colbert Report once and fled in disgust halfway through.
Both hosts evinced a supercilious attitude that found unpalatable.
Mike J
@Tree With Water: It’s no $10,000 watch from Apple.
sdhays
I’m pretty unfamiliar with Trevor Noah, but what, exactly, is funny about this: “Behind every successful Rap Billionaire is a double as rich Jewish man”? Or “A hot white woman with ass is like a unicorn. Even if you do see one, you’ll probably never get to ride it”? Or “‘Oh yeah the weekend. People are gonna get drunk & think that I’m sexy!’ – fat chicks everywhere”? Or what is the context that doesn’t make them disgusting?
I’m genuinely asking. I saw these on TPM and was pretty horrified.
David Koch
@beltane: worse than bush.
Anne Laurie
@David Koch:
Your reading comprehension needs work, too. From all evidence, you’re the one who’s a “brogressive” ratfvcker.
JPL
@beltane: I didn’t click to daily kos but I did find this on bbc
The US state department said that “enough progress” had been made to merit working through a midnight (22:00 GMT) deadline. But spokeswoman Marie Harf added that “several difficult issues” still remained.
Although they might be close, no deal has been finalized.
lamh36
@WaterGirl: lol. probably does, I had a computer glitch and now I just dont’ feel like adding a comment to edit…lol
chopper
@David Koch:
yes, but he’s one of the “good” republicans. whatever the hell that means.
Keith G
Noah has a comedy special up on Netflix. I watched it last year. It’s not the best, but it is better than most and certainly among the best of the younger comedians. It will be interesting to see where he takes his show. I hope it works out.
Edit: @sdhays: Some of those tweets are quite hack and I feel no need to defend hack humor, but as I mentioned, he does have a small but growing body of work. Check it out.
NotMax
That Was the Week That Was was doing it in the 60s, and more deftly.
So too Lloyd Dobyns and Linda Ellerbee on Monitor in the 80s, only more in-depth.
Mike J
@sdhays: Well, the first one is about how many people view the entertainment industry as a way up from poverty. Many lyrics in popular culture celebrate the financial success enabled by the performer’s skill. However, even for those near the top of the socio-economic ladder, there are always those higher up who are able to exploit their talent. Until the workers control the means of production, it will ever be so.
Explaining jokes is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process.
Amir Khalid
@Mike J:
$17,000. Their top-of-the-line watches are seventeen grand. Exactly the same innards as the cheap ones, so I gather, but with deluxe 18k gold cases.
lamh36
@msdc: I said it was an interesting story. And my next sentence says he’s able to tell his story pretty darn humorously.
It’s obviously not a requirement of hosting a talk show. Noah, BTW, has actually done various hosting duties in his native South Africa, so TDS would be different, but not his first time ever “hosting” anything. That’s seems to be even more relevant to his possible ability to handle TDS, right?
Villago Delenda Est
@NotMax: Well, I guess we’re going to have to come over to your place and enforce orthodoxy and norms by holding a gun to your head and making you watch both programs.
David Koch
Landmark Peace agreement with Iran.
Hopefully they won’t mind the New guy.
He ended Bush’s tax cuts for the rich. He ended Bush’s war on Iraq. He found bin Laden and wagered his entire presidency on neutralizing him. He overturned DADT and DOMA and endorsed gay marriage. He’s name more women and gays to the federal bench than any of his predecessors. He’s kept us out war in Ukraine, Syria, and Iran, despite all the pressure from the media, the right, and the centrists who cater to AIPAC. He brought healthcare to 32,500,000 people. He normalized relations with Cuba after 52 years. He rescued the auto industry, when the right was demanding he let it go bankrupt. He prevented a 2nd Great Depression. Throw in sentencing fairness act, Dodd-Frank financial reform, student loan reform, deferring to Colorado’s and Washington’s pot laws instead of using federal preemption, Lilly Ledbetter Act, Mathew Sheppard Act, and expanding SCHIP and Pell Grants.
also too, he regulated Co2, cutting emission by 30%, raised the car fuel standard to 54.5 mpg, he’s gonna nix the Keystone pipeline, negotiated a carbon deal with China, and provided the bridge funding for Telsa’s electric car.
NotMax
@JPL
Never been much of a secret that there will likely be a framework initialed including an extension until July for an agreement.
Switching topical gears, Elizabeth Warren will be on the Maddow show today.
Violet
The woman who got fired by the dickwad Days Inn manager in Pine Bluff, Arkansas has apparently taken her case to the NLRB:
sdhays
@Mike J: Yeah, but why “Jewish”?
different-church-lady
@David Koch: Yeah, but he’s still MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN NIXON!!!!!
[/”populist” platitude]
Mike in NC
So apparently The Daily Show is such a cultural icon that it has to be perpetuated forever, the same way Saturday Night Live still exists despite the fact that it has sucked for the past 30 years.
chopper
@lamh36:
you wouldn’t know that from his stints so far on TDS. seemed stilted and badly rehearsed.
hope he works out better hosting.
EthylEster
@WaterGirl:
Hah! This is my version of how the world ends….Homer Simpson is reading instructions for shutting down a nuclear reactor and the writer has omitted an important word “not”.
Leaving out the ‘not’ or substituting ‘now’ is MY most frequent typing error. And I’m much more careful about proofing my stuff than about 99% of the population. So IMO we’re doomed.
NickM
The jokes that have caused offense strike me as kind of clumsy and not particularly funny, but I understand he’s generally much funnier and sharper.
AliceBlue
@sdhays:
This is the type of “humor” that baggers and wingnuts love.
I hope he’s funnier than his tweets.
different-church-lady
@NotMax:
She’ll be announcing she’s not running for president. This will fuel “populist” speculation that she’s running for president.
chopper
@David Koch:
that’s ratfucker talk right there, son.
NotMax
@Villago Delenda Est
Take a number.
There’s a long, long line ahead of you.
:)
lamh36
@sdhays: tar and feather him then. He should never be allow near a mic or comedy show or on a television screen ever again.
Not gonna defend those tweets, but the same ones Ive seen have been the same everywhere. I don’t see that he had an avalanche of such tweets, but still..
I think the young man deserves a chance to sink or swim…
As much as I love twitter, the twitter outrages are just getting ridculous
Cliff in NH
@LanceThruster:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/09/colbert-sarah-palin-is-a_n_454744.html
Thanks for that! Classic Indeed..
CONGRATULATIONS!
Just as “Colbert” is done and finished without Stephen, TDS will be done and finished without Stewart. The question of “who will replace Stewart” is moot.
Tree With Water
@Mike J: I did not understand that remark until I read this:
“For its first two weeks in stores, merely trying on an Apple Watch will require an appointment, Apple revealed Tuesday..”.
Jee-zuz..
Belafon
@different-church-lady: I saw that post and I wanted to comment “Why are ‘populists’ leaving the Democratic party? Because they don’t want to get anything done.”
different-church-lady
@Belafon: If the internets were mine to give, they’d be yours right now.
Cliff in NH
@David Koch:
Fuck Yea!! W00t!
kc
@Citizen Alan:
He apparently has a Jewish grandparent, but is not Jewish.
different-church-lady
@kc:
HOW DARE HE MOCK THE ELDERLY!
trollhattan
Whatever happens with TDS happens. It’s greater than the sum of its parts and the new host and writers have a period of unspecified length to create a new identity, hopefully successful. J-stew was leaving, so that was done. I’ll hold my opinion and give the new show a shot. If it’s anything like Oliver’s,. then yay.
I hope everybody appreciates how special Colbert was, now that it’s gone. I like Larry Wilmore, a lot, but his show doesn’t work for me and I’ve stopped watching, because the content:filler ratio is almost infinite.
jl
@lamh36: My understanding is that the offensive tweets were from seven or eight years ago. I am more concerned with what he is saying today.
What he tweeted today was not good. He sent out a dismissive comment, which he deleted a little later.
sdhays
@lamh36: I’m not doing any tarring or feathering. I can stand some fairly rough humor, basically as long as I feel like I know that the comedian isn’t punching down (or intending to). I won’t preemptively boycott TDS with him at the helm, but if this is actually indicative of the way he thinks, I expect that he’ll eventually disgrace himself on air or offend me to the point that I won’t bother to watch (I don’t watch Stewart that often anyway). If it’s all just some really poorly leveraged satire, then maybe he’ll be alright.
Cervantes
@Tree With Water:
Second only to certain Republican presidential campaigns.
kc
@sdhays:
Those aren’t even the worst ones, in term of offensiveness or lameness. Some of them really are godawful. Just cringeworthy. Painfully bad, not funny at all.
Having said that, I’m willing to see how he does at hosting TDS. At least he won’t be the only writer there. :)
kc
@lamh36:
Indeed.
kc
@trollhattan:
Colbert was the best ever. No one can do what he did.
I think Wilmore would be a great choice to replace Steward, but unfortunately I guess he’s locked into that panel show.
jl
@jl: Well, I was misinformed, since the ones at TPM are just two or three years old.
Some early pre-Daily show Jon Stewart stand-up.
Jon Stewart – Unleavened (1996 Stand-Up)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn1GOkw5lwI
I didn’t listen to all of it, but did catch some fat white trailer trash women sex jokes.
sdhays
@kc: I agree about Wilmore. I like him, but don’t particularly care for his show. He would be better as Stewart’s replacement. The round-table discussion format doesn’t work for him. I rarely watch Real Time with Bill Maher, and I don’t particularly like Maher himself, but I do think that he’s good with the discussion format. He can get some interesting discussions going, and there often seems to be enough time to actually have all the participants weigh in. I haven’t seen that on Wilmore’s show. He’s too polite and spends too much time on non-discussion parts.
WaterGirl
@EthylEster: Yeah, I thought from the context of the overall comment that a “not” or a negative reference was missing, but I wasn’t completely sure. Just wanted to understand.
I laughed at your end of the world comment. I have no doubt that you are correct.
SiubhanDuinne
Reposted from dead thread:
I’m not trying to be coy, but I can’t say anything yet (don’t know much, and it’s not very public anyhow), but I am just reeling because just learned the teenaged son of an acquaintance/friend has been killed in a drug-related shootout. So awful. I am heartsick for the family. (I don’t know the family well, but they are close friends with people who are close friends of mine.)
Update: it’s gone public. The teenaged son of the Canadian Consul General in Miami was shot and killed. Just a tragedy.
kc
@sdhays:
I wish Wilmore had been in position to have a shot at this, but Noah could turn out to be a great choice. I’m willing to watch with an open mind.
I feel bad for Wilmore; it doesn’t seem like his show is really taking off, not through any fault of his.
Tree With Water
@SiubhanDuinne: What a terrible waste. I grew up playing baseball with a kid who was drafted, and returned from Vietnam a heroin addict. He was cornered by police during a robbery attempt to feed his habit, and chose to shoot it out. He was a boy who played an entire summer of playground baseball with his arm in a cast, and was still one of the best of us all.
Heliopause
Sooooo, Larry Wilmore and Jessica Williams and Aasif Mandvi weren’t already doing that? Somebody give ’em a call and let them know what failures they are.
Seriously, I think one of the primary factors for the Comedy Central suits was that this guy is conventionally handsome. I’ve seen his brief Daily Show bits and they were OK, not great, and out of curiosity I sat through a couple of YouTube bits last night and the guy is OK, not great. He’s good-looking and has a “sexy” accent by somebody’s estimation, so he got the job.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I heard him interviewed, I think it was with Terri Gross, and it seemed like he really believes in the panel format, which is the drag on the show, IMO. I specifically remember a show on Cuba and a show on vaccines, in each case he had one very sincere person (an anti-vax mother and an anti-Castro diehard) that kind of earnest sincerity is the enemy of comedy, unless like Bill Maher you’re willing to tell pepole they’re full of shit, which isn’t Wilmore’s style.
burnspbesq
Noah might turn out to be all that and more, but I will always wonder what TDS might have turned into if the keys had been given to Dara O’Briain.
SiubhanDuinne
@Tree With Water:
It is just heartbreaking. Reports are still very sketchy but it now appears that the 17-year-old son and another kid (the dealer) were killed, and the 15-year-old son is under arrest for felony murder. I can’t begin to fathom the awfulness. And as you say, just a tragic waste.
jibeaux
@David Koch: Weigel wrote about how Rand Paul has been consistently against gay rights and how other media outlets have been wrong to refer to it as a flip-flop. He’s not someone I always feel like I’m on the same wavelength as, but he’s not dumb and he covers politics like a blanket.
AxelFoley
@David Koch:
B-bu-but, certain “progressives” to this day still say Obama hasn’t done anything.
Who am I to believe–them or my lying eyes?
dan
@NotMax: No one gives a shit.
olcrazypete
I actually saw John Stewart do a stand up routine when i was in college before he did the daily show, and A) he wasn’t that funny and B) he was downright crude in the jokes. I sorta remember feeling bad for bringing a date with me he was so dirty. That said, he wouldn’t have made it thru the twitter background check at the time either, it that existed 20 years ago.
biff diggerence
Thanks for the Apollo clip. I don’t know who the fuck Ms. McKinney is, but the more I hear of Trevor Noah, the more convinced I am that the Daily made the right choice.
mr_gravity
@Mike in NC: TV shows stay on the air because they have an audience.
Your considered opinion notwithstanding.
Marc McKenzie
@David Koch: Yeah, but because he didn’t throw Bush and company in the clink or lock up every Wall Street type and and give us single payer and legalize weed–all in two seconds or less–he’s the worst ever, worse than Bush.
….Just kidding, of course–but what I put down above is what I’ve been spotting on some progressive sites and blogs. They conveniently ignore everything you wrote in favor of the memes I mentioned. Oh well–I suppose after he leaves office they’ll start the tongue bath, because he actually got a lot of s%&! done in the face of unprecedented opposition.