Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

How can republicans represent us when they don’t trust women?

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

I really should read my own blog.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

We still have time to mess this up!

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Republicans don’t trust women.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

“Squeaker” McCarthy

White supremacy is terrorism.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

You can’t love your country only when you win.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

The words do not have to be perfect.

You are here: Home / Politics / An Unexamined Scandal / Getting The Band Back Together / As The WarCons Reband, Let Us Trip Down Memory Lane

As The WarCons Reband, Let Us Trip Down Memory Lane

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Twelve years ago today, Donald Rumsfeld composed this:

Screen Shot 2015-04-07 at 10.37.26 AM

(h/t Rob Golan-Vilella)

As the entire Republican party brays for war in Syria, Iran, Ukraine, wherever next…remember:  their reunion tour will make us long for Nickleback.

That bad.

 

Reader Interactions

140Comments

  4. 4.

    JCJ

    their reunion tour will make us long for Nickleback.

    Hell, their reunion tour would make us long for a Journey/Styx/REO Speedwagon triple header tour!

  5. 5.

    trollhattan

    @JCJ:

    Hell, their reunion tour would make us long for a Journey/Styx/REO Speedwagon triple header tour!

    The very thought will cost me a month’s worth of sleep, thanks a lot!

  8. 8.

    Mr. Longform

    Equivalently realistic and insightful Energy Department memo: How’s that fusion thing coming along? Get me a solution by end of business today. All the best, …..

  9. 9.

    patrick II

    I noticed the “Respond By” date field is left blank, so at least Rumsfeld wasn’t holding Feith to some unrealistic date to solve all of the world destroying fuck-ups their administration initiated.

  11. 11.

    Chris

    @rikyrah:

    Or at least the last best chance for the kind of war they understand – conventional war, nation versus nation, with the other nation preferably much weaker than ours and not endowed with WMD deterrence. Then our army can destroy their conventional capacity completely, ride into their capital triumphant and victorious, and overthrow the dictator.

    I think the Iraq War was in large part denial and wish fulfillment by a Bush administration fighting the kind of war they wished they were facing rather than adapting to confront the very different threat of stateless transnational groups like al-Qaeda, which they had no fucking idea how to handle. Twelve years later, they still don’t. They still want to refight the Iraq War with a new country in Iraq’s place, confront the problem they wish they were facing instead of the one they’re actually facing, and hope that works. Somehow.

  13. 13.

    rikyrah

    THIS is Presidential Shade

    ……………

    During an interview that aired on Tuesday, NPR’s Steve Inskeep asked Obama about Walker’s recent comment that he would “absolutely” withdraw from the nuclear deal “on day one” if he were elected president.

    “I am confident that any president who gets elected will be knowledgeable enough about foreign policy, and knowledgeable enough about the traditions and precedents of presidential power, that they won’t start calling into question the capacity of the executive branch of the United States to enter into agreements with other countries,” Obama responded. “And it would be a foolish approach to take, and, you know, perhaps Mr. Walker, after he’s taken some time to bone up on foreign policy, will feel the same way.”

  15. 15.

    Betty Cracker

    Wow. Watching the Bush admin conduct foreign policy always felt like observing rival packs of crack-smoking hyenas tussling over a desiccated antelope carcass. But it was worse than I thought!

  18. 18.

    jimmiraybob

    Wasn’t The Interview, with Seth Rogen and James Franco, based on an action proposal written by Feith to deal with N Korea? I just assume….similarities……..could have worked……….

  19. 19.

    Iowa Old Lady

    I can’t keep up with who these guys want to bomb. Sometimes it’s both sides of a conflict. Do they even listen to themselves?

  21. 21.

    sharl

    @Hob: Yep, ya beat me to it. You cannot get to the pdf directly using the library.rumseld.com URL; gotta jump through a couple extra hoops (as you described), starting at Rummy’s main page.
    The link to the Atlantic post is easier.

  22. 22.

    Patrick

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    And where’s the money going to come from? Yes, the “war will pay for itself”, but seriously – where’s the money going to come from? Whose taxes are they going to increase to pay for their frivolous war?

  24. 24.

    geg6

    @rikyrah:

    I laughed and laughed and laughed when I read that earlier today. My administrative assistant thought I’d lost my mind.

    He really is going to spend the rest of his term trolling them unmercilessly. I love it.

  26. 26.

    kindness

    @srv: C’mon. John served in the earlier operation there. Cut the man some slack. He’s earned his cred by being honest about how he see things.

    Now I was not a regular then and I don’t recognize any of those 6 commentors. I suspect they’ve gone to more ‘favorable’ ground for themselves now.

  28. 28.

    Hob

    @patrick II: It looks like Rumsfeld never filled in the “Respond by” date on any of his memos (at least not any of the several dozen I’ve looked at so far due to my morbid curiosity, or some goddamn reason). Maybe it’s just a memo form that was provided to him and he didn’t bother with that part.

    It’s amazing how content-free most of those memos are. He’s talking to direct subordinates, Wolfowitz and Feith, whom you would think he sees pretty often, and he’ll say something like “We need to do look into doing something about Korea” as if that’s something that’s never come up before. What was the follow-up? Did he have any actual ideas? Who knows?

  29. 29.

    rikyrah

    And where’s the money going to come from? Yes, the “war will pay for itself”, but seriously – where’s the money going to come from

    scam from last time…putting not one, but two wars ‘ off the books’.

  31. 31.

    Patrick

    @rikyrah:

    scam from last time…putting not one, but two wars ‘ off the books’.

    I see – So just like the 2003 idiotic attack on Iraq, the next one will also be paid by our grand-kids.

  33. 33.

    Calouste

    @Chris: They really want to refight WWII, the “good” war. A bit like an aging rock group is trying to recreate their break-through album.

  34. 34.

    MomSense

    @geg6:

    The president’s trolling has been superior the last few months. I woke my dog up I laughed so hard when I read that he authorized GI Bill funds to train 75,000 veterans for solar industry jobs.

    How will the Republicans handle that?

  35. 35.

    boatboy_srq

    @Iowa Old Lady: Listening – and reacting to the knowledge that listening would provide – requires self-awareness. They traded that for wingnut campaign dollars.

  36. 36.

    Doug r

    I really don’t get all this hate for Nickelback. If someone’s going to make a butt load of money off of countrified simple rock songs, it might as well be a bunch of ex juvenile delinquents from Hana Alberta

  39. 39.

    BobS

    The entire Republican party deserves shame and ridicule (not to mention prison for some of the more egregious war criminals among them). However more than a few Democrats have joined them in braying for war in Iraq, in Libya, in Syria, and in Ukraine. In fact, I’ve read plenty of that bellicose mendacity in Balloon Juice comment threads.

  40. 40.

    boatboy_srq

    @rikyrah:

    this is why they are horrified about the Iran deal

    This is why they are horrified about any deal with any foreign nation. The “We need more coercive diplomacy” line is telling. Actual, real diplomacy is for ‘nadless suckers: if you can’t “persuade” your allies to go along (at gunpoint) then according to them you’re not doing it right.

  41. 41.

    Roger Moore

    @Chris:

    I think the Iraq War was in large part denial and wish fulfillment by a Bush administration fighting the kind of war they wished they were facing rather than adapting to confront the very different threat of stateless transnational groups like al-Qaeda, which they had no fucking idea how to handle.

    I don’t think it was so much the kind of war they wanted as the quite specific war they wanted. They had been looking for an excuse to go to war with Iraq since well before 9/11, and they weren’t going to let a crisis go to waste. IMO, that’s the reason nobody has a decent excuse for having supported the Iraq War; it was sold on as flimsy an excuse as the one supporting Bush’s tax cuts.

  43. 43.

    Chris

    @Calouste:

    I’d agree with that, yes.

    Or rather, they want to refight what they think World War Two was, conveniently forgetting all the things that made it work, from the massive tax hikes, rationing, and government seizing control of various sectors to the decades long involvement in postwar reconstruction (and the kind of reconstruction that went on with that – hint; no, “drowning the government in the bathtub” does not produce modern First World societies).

  44. 44.

    Rasputin's Evil Twin

    @Chris: The Right stills longs for WWII and ticker tape parades, and signing peace treaties on the deck of a batleship, just like Ronnie Reagan did.

  48. 48.

    Steve

    Sure would be nice to have a strong military presence in Iraq now to head off the chaos Obamas policies have brought us.

  49. 49.

    Egilsson

    Hey, I saw Styx in concert a few years ago, and they rocked.

    They had energy, and they brought the house down.

    Tommy Shaw still sounds great.

    It was actually one of the best concerts I’ve seen.

    And I like Nickleback too . . . Rockstar is a cool song.

  52. 52.

    geg6

    @Iowa Old Lady:
    @MomSense:

    Yeah, I started dreading the lame duck session the day after Election Day 2012, but he’s really made it so much more fun than I ever could have imagined. He’s been saving the snark until now and it is glorious to behold.

  54. 54.

    Amir Khalid

    @MomSense:
    I’m sorry, but I have to disagree. Obama isn’t trolling when he says that Scott Walker knows shit-all about presidenting; he is merely stating a fact.

  55. 55.

    Mandalay

    @Tom Levenson: Your link to Rumsfeld’s web site is a gold mine! I have to applaud the Donald for doing this, even if it is only because he doesn’t give a flying fuck about what anyone else thinks.

    Here’s a good one, with the recipient of the email sadly removed:

    SUBJECT: Condi’s Comment
    I want to remember Condi’s comment when she was talking about Uzbekistan that human rights trumps security.

  56. 56.

    Jay C

    @Steve: @Egilsson:

    Sure would be nice to have a strong military presence in Iraq now to head off the chaos Obamas policies have brought us

    Well, there IS one there now. It’s Iran’s.

  57. 57.

    JPL

    @srv: It is embarrassing.
    Who could have thought that civil war would erupt in the middle east? I guess at the time, John and more recently not the real Steve.

  59. 59.

    geg6

    @Amir Khalid:

    This is second time he’s called out Walker for idiocy. He seems to take great pleasure in pointing how stupid Walker is and there is simply nothing Walker can do about it. If that isn’t trolling, I don’t what is.

  61. 61.

    east is east

    Obama is trolling the wingnuts again. He mentioned “less than loving Christians.” They are in meltdown on the righty blogs. Hilarious.

  63. 63.

    JPL

    @rlrr: He might actually be one of the paid Russian trolls. Putin would like nothing more than for us to lose our men fighting a civil war overseas.

  64. 64.

    kindness

    @geg6: One persons factuals are another persons trolls.

    Let us just agree that it makes a great floor polish & dessert topping.

  65. 65.

    Chris

    @Roger Moore:

    I think it was the specific war they wanted, but it was also a subset of a larger phenomenon. Look at who they singled out as our biggest national security threats in the Axis of Evil speech – the government we fought in Desert Storm, the government Khomeini created right before Reagan’s election, and one of the last communist nations on Earth. Look at their national security strategy before 9/11 – all emphasis on building next generation nukes (“bunker busters”) and restarting Strategic Defense Initiative, basically restarting an arms race with our “strategic competitors” Russia and China.

    It was the foreign policy of a group of “experts” who’d made their mark managing foreign policy in the Regan-Bush era, hadn’t learned and pretty much refused to learn a damn thing since, and preferred to obsessively try to relive their greatest hits.

  66. 66.

    Cacti

    This is why I’m repulsed at the thought of AIPAC stooge/warmonger Chuck Schumer as the new Senate minority leader.

    Chuckles loves him a good middle east war if Likud is good with it.

  67. 67.

    srv

    @kindness: There are a number of commenters who go back to late 2004 or 2005, but I don’t know of any back to 2003.

    John always assumes I’m hate stalking him or something, I just find the posts hysterical and representative of the crazy that BJ was back then.

  68. 68.

    Botsplainer

    I don’t get it – why does everybody hate Nickelback so? They’re heavily autotuned, every lick sounds the same and their lyrics are delivered in monotone, but they know their target audience of rocker males between the ages of 38 and 47 and they make money.

    what’s not to love?

  69. 69.

    Mandalay

    @srv:

    John always assumes I’m hate stalking him or something

    Not an entirely unreasonable assumption when you are taking the time to resurrect posts from 2003. Get a fucking life.

  70. 70.

    MomSense

    @Amir Khalid:

    Reality has a liberal bias dontcha know which makes Republicans feel like they are being trolled and that is good enough for me.

  77. 77.

    Peale

    @JPL: Well its not like those lessons were learned outside of the bloggers. Tell me again why this administration thought Libya without Qaddafi and Syria without Assad suddenly removed would transition directly to kumbaya land without US troops? They aren’t off the hook for that.

  79. 79.

    Linnaeus

    @srv:

    I took a look at some of other posts on Balloon Juice around the time of the one you linked.

    Man, BJ was a very, very different place then.

  81. 81.

    Yatsuno

    @Steve: Pick which taxes you want to raise to pay for said force. Must be revenue neutral. Show your work. Oh and you might want to fund the agency who will collect your raised taxes. Make your list. I’ll wait.

  83. 83.

    srv

    @Peale: Actually, most of the commenters here were shrieking to courtesy bomb Benghazi while John was one of the very few questioning the strategeries.

    He gave up talking about that stuff (and the NSA) because he realized this blog was filled with the mandalay’s of the left and it was hopeless.

  84. 84.

    gene108

    @Peale:

    Tell me again why this administration thought Libya without Qaddafi and Syria without Assad suddenly removed would transition directly to kumbaya land without US troops?

    Libya was at the request of France and Britain, our NATO allies, as well as a real humanitarian concern that Qaddafi was going to massacre several thousand of Libyans.

    Assad has been an impediment to progress in Syria. Unemployment and the overall economy there were lagging before the civil war broke out. I can see wanting to put in a more progressive government in place in Syria. There’s a high level of education in the populace, so you figure they could’ve worked out something better themselves, with Assad out of the way.

    There’s a whole school of thought that believes Obama’s problem is he is not committing enough U.S. forces into conflicts in places like Libya and Syria to bring order to those countries and everyone would be better off, with a more robust U.S. involvement.

    There’s a blind spot the Left has, in looking at overall foreign policy, because the Left seemingly does not want any use of force and even limited uses are deemed belligerent, but there are rapid warhawks in this country, who think anything short of an Iraq-style conquest and occupation is being a pussy, and as John Bolton getting prime print space shows, they are still thought of as very serious people.

  85. 85.

    Patrick

    @Steve:

    You mean the policy of getting bin Laden, which Bush gave on? A big thanks to President Obama for getting the job done!

  86. 86.

    BobS

    @John Revolta: Chicago didn’t have much to offer in the way of rock’n’roll in the 70’s. It was more than compensated for by the blues, soul, jazz, and gospel music the city gave the world.

  88. 88.

    Peale

    @Belafon: How are the ongoing peace discussions going? Has the US recently changed its position that perhaps a power sharing arrangement with Assad would be preferable to ISIS control of the region? As far as I can tell, we’re still at “Assad Must Go!”

  89. 89.

    Keith P.

    It blows my mind that nearly (?) an entire party’s presidential field is all but saying they will go to war with Iran if elected, yet they are not being laughed off the stage en masse. And to make it even more surreal, one of the leaders is W’s freaking brother! And I just know that they’re all going to be pushing for deregulation hard at some point.
    At least they take the bait on culture war battes so…damn….easily.

  90. 90.

    BobS

    @Belafon: Not for lack of trying. Plus US meddling (& Putin’s response) has contributed to the acrimonious relations with Russia.

  91. 91.

    catclub

    @Peale: My vague memory is that the US went in to Libya at the strong behest of almost all the European powers, because Khaddafy was threatening to do to Bengahzi what the previous Assad had done to Hama.

    I don’t remember Obama saying that the rest would be easy. Did I miss that?

  93. 93.

    D58826

    It seems to me that if the GOP/Democratic quislings blow up the framework it will have the same impact on our diplomatic position in the world as a debt default would have on our financial position in the world. Of course to the warmongers and winnuts both are features not a bugs.

  96. 96.

    BobS

    @catclub: Somewhat true. The reason the 3 Stooges (Sarkozy, Cameron, & Obama) gave for breaking Libya was because of “humanitarian intervention”.

  97. 97.

    Mike in NC

    Rumsfeld’s memos were known as “snowflakes” in the Pentagon because they came down so fast and furious. It was almost a stream-of-consciousness thing that he did.

    Like many lousy micromanagers, he was bad at following up on them.

  99. 99.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Well its not like those lessons were learned outside of the bloggers. Tell me again why this administration thought Libya without Qaddafi and Syria without Assad suddenly removed would transition directly to kumbaya land without US troops? They aren’t off the hook for that.

    @Peale: No, they assuredly are not and it’s going to end up being a huge demerit on the Obama presidency, as far as history matters (not much). They’ve been pretty much just as clueless as the team of morons running the show before, just not quite as malign about it.

    We should be sending money and aid to Assad, dammit. And we should have to Qaddafi as well. Assad’s the last line of defense from his nation turning into an ungoverned slaughterhouse hellhole like Iraq and Afghanistan.

    ETA: oh yeah forgot Libya. That isn’t working out well for anyone at all.

  100. 100.

    Cckids

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Who knew his lameduckness would be this much fun?

    Agreed! I am just hoping that Harry Reid joins him there in Dontgiveafuckistan. Bring the snark, guys!

  101. 101.

    Peale

    @BobS: Which is odd, because really Cameron and Sarkozy weren’t known for their humanitarian impulses. I mean, sure, moreso than the leader of Uzbekistan, but probably not by as much as they would like to think. But then even Norway was freedom bombing in Libya. Qaddafi must have been hiding pictures from some world leader bachelor party.

  102. 102.

    Peale

    As far as I can tell, though, the US isn’t taking part in the Yemeni/Saudi war yet. So there may be some progress.

  103. 103.

    catclub

    @gene108: You got there before my post asked the questions you answered.

    as to this, though:

    There’s a blind spot the Left has, in looking at overall foreign policy, because the Left seemingly does not want any use of force and even limited uses are deemed belligerent

    How about: Is this important enough for us to raise a war tax to pay for it? Make it a war tax on the top 1% and we would be a pretty peaceful nation. Only thing Sheldon Adelson hates more than Iran is paying taxes to Uncle Sam.

  104. 104.

    Elie

    I believe O has trapped the entire Republican field in quicksand. There is just no way for them to get from where they think we are to war because of a peace agreement… no way. Having it be a multinational agreement also helps this immeasurably… I have no idea why some of the Dems are on board but its going to be pretty difficult describing what “war” with Iran would mean and the impact on our economy, security and stature in the world. Russia and China would be thrilled that we made their lives so much easier. Nope, there will be no war and yes, the agreement will be signed and they are going to be furious but that is that. I do foresee trouble ahead for Democrats who persist in helping the Republicans, though I do not see how they can advocate for war. Walking away from this agreement will destroy our leadership in the world and make us a pariah — along with Israel. I just don’t see it happening, but I imagine that there will be a lot of escalating talk and posturing all around before these folks accept what is irrefutable — a war with Iran is too too costly in every way to consider. The new paradigm and balance of our strategic interests in the ME has begun and I do not believe that there is an easy way out of it…

  106. 106.

    sharl

    OT, apparently the fearless Jon Krakauer has a new book that is supposed to be coming out later this month: Missoula: Rape and the Justice System in a College Town. Little is being said about it by the author or publisher apparently, but the leading lights among Missoula’s citizenry are already on edge, and starting to man the ramparts.

    The thing I learned in comments there is that Krakauer has an Instagram account, which includes this very awesome account of avoiding capture by goons working for the (now imprisoned) perv Warren Jeffs.

    Day-yum; keep on keepin’ on, JK!

  107. 107.

    D58826

    Rand Paul has dropped this pearl of wisdom according to MSNBC

    The senator did, however, broach the subject in his presidential announcement speech in Kentucky this afternoon:
    “I envision a national defense that promotes, as Reagan put it, ‘peace through strength.’
    “I believe in applying Ronald Reagan’s approach to foreign policy to the Iran issue. Successful negotiations with untrustworthy adversaries are only achieved from a position of strength.”

    Does that mean the baker who won’t make cakes for gays can now start selling cakes to the Iranians. I’m sure Ollie won’t mind giving up his radio show to deliver them to to the ayatollahs Every time you think the GOP has hit the bottom of the hole they get a bigger shovel an d start digging faster

  108. 108.

    Jeremy

    @Steve: I’m sorry but if you want to blame someone for the mess in Iraq you have to lay blame on George W Bush and the neocons. They removed a dictator who provided stability and was opposed to Iran. By removing Saddam (who wasn’t a good guy) the US gave Iraq to Iran and caused terrorist forces to come in and stir up trouble in the country. This is why the moderate republican foreign policy establishment: George HW Bush, Brent Scowcroft, James Baker, etc decided not to take out Saddam during the Persian Gulf War. Obama is trying his best to create stability, but we will be dealing with these issues for years to come. The Iraq War was an even bigger mistake than Vietnam and the results prove it.

  109. 109.

    BobS

    @Peale: They still aren’t — “humanitarian intervention” is the excuse that is cynically proffered for wars that are fought for less noble reasons. Like Libya, for [email protected]Peale: According to the White House, the US is providing “logistical and intelligence support to GCC-led military operations”.

  110. 110.

    catclub

    @Elie:

    Walking away from this agreement will destroy our leadership in the world and make us a pariah — along with Israel. I just don’t see it happening

    I hope you are right. I fear that the first sentence would be a point of pride to the people who just want to watch the world burn. Ted Cruz for example.

  112. 112.

    catclub

    @Grumpy Code Monkey: Never forget that Rumsfeld and Cheney were both promoted for 30 years in government ‘service’. And this is the level of their work product. Connections are everything.

  113. 113.

    Roger Moore

    @Peale:

    Tell me again why this administration thought Libya without Qaddafi and Syria without Assad suddenly removed would transition directly to kumbaya land without US troops?

    The Obama administration didn’t decide that things would be wonderful with Qaddafi and Assad had to go. There were civil wars in both Libya and Syria that got started without our help. Obama decided to get involved in Libya, but actually refrained from getting directly involved in fighting against Assad. The main thing we’ve done there is fight against ISIL, which we only started doing after they attacked Iraq. That’s a far cry from going into Iraq with the aim of toppling Saddam but no plan about what to do afterward.

  114. 114.

    Jeremy

    @Peale: The Obama administration said form the get go that Assad must go but they never backed it up with action. In the beginning it was easier to say that “Assad must go” because Syria wasn’t the unstable mess it is today but you really don’t here the administration saying he must go. John Kerry a few weeks ago said that we should consider negotiations. They have tried peace negotiations between the parties but it has gone nowhere.

  116. 116.

    D58826

    @catclub: And don’t we have photos of Rummy and Cheney making kissyface with Saddam in the 1980’s when The Great and Powerful St Ronnulus was backing Iraq in its war with Iran. We actually fought a brief naval war with the Iranians in the mid 80’s. Even shot down an Iranian passenger plane, by mistake of course. The last thing anyone wants to do is follow the Reagan template or it’s George W Bush sequel.

  117. 117.

    mclaren

    As the entire Republican party Hillary presidential campaign and her retinue of Clintonistas brays for war in Syria, Iran, Ukraine, wherever next…remember: their reunion tour will make us long for Nickleback.

    That bad.

    There. Fixed that for ya.

  118. 118.

    Peale

    @D58826: It really won’t ever stop will it? Anything short of Iran looking like Myanmar or South Sudan in a few years means we were too light with the sanction business and therefore had no business negotiating.

  119. 119.

    BobS

    @Roger Moore: @Jeremy: The US very early on in Syria worked out of it’s “color revolution” tool chest (including cyber-attacks on the Syrian government) to aid the insurgency. When that proved ineffectual, the US upped the ante (with Saudi money) in the form of weapons, ammunition, training, & intelligence.
    The insurgency in Libya was similarly stoked by external elements. When Gaddafi attempted to suppress the insurrection (which for better or worse is the perogative of a government), the west predictably intervened for “humanitarian” reasons.

  120. 120.

    Chris

    @D58826:

    “I believe in applying Ronald Reagan’s approach to foreign policy to the Iran issue. Successful negotiations with untrustworthy adversaries are only achieved from a position of strength.”

    The U.S. is a superpower, Iran is a third world nation crippled by sanctions and increasingly isolated especially now that its only real ally in the region (Syria) has fallen apart. “Position of strength” comes with the territory.

    This is why the critics are retarded. The U.S. is already in a “position of strength” – it just refuses to allow itself to negotiate (maybe – we’ll see who ends up having the upper hand between Obama and the Republican-controlled Congress), instead sticking to ultimatums and broken deals. And then it’s surprised when it ends up bogged down in a war in Iraq or dealing with a nuclear-armed North Korea.

  121. 121.

    Cervantes

    @D58826:

    Even shot down an Iranian passenger plane, by mistake of course.

    Remember that both captain and crew, far from being censured for this “mistake,” were decorated instead.

  122. 122.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Cervantes: To the best of my knowledge, nobody from a “regular” armed force has ever been censured for any similar mistake, of which there are about a half-dozen since the end of WWII.

  123. 123.

    jon

    @Jeremy: I think it’s worse than you put it. The Bush Administration had an opportunity to create two Asian Muslim democracies, but in each case stood by as the constitutions of Iraq and Afghanistan implemented Sharia Law (that GOP boogaboo) in both nations. In the end, the consitutions for each nation gave little for the individual Afghan or Iraqi to see much for themselves, leading to a return of clans, warlords, religious affiliations, and whoever was paying them enough to avoid the other clans, warlords, or religious affiliations. And in each case, the central governments suck for human rights, women’s rights, minority rights, and anyone who stands up to clans, warlords, or religious affiliations.

    I’m not even mad, since the GOP doesn’t understand American democracy or our own Constitution. I can’t be angry, because that’s what they’ve made plain for the past few decades. How I long for war leaders like Eisenhower and even MacArthur, who oversaw conquered territories in Germany and Japan. MacArthur’s involvement in forcing a decent constitution down the throats of the Japanese was his greatest achievement (even if some other guy wrote the actual thing,) because how many times has Japan endangered us since then? Oh yeah, I guess they hurt Detroit in ways Republican governors only dream of, but aside from that? Nothing.

    The Bush Administration may have failed even with trying something bold and democratic, but instead they just fucked up and created two more Asian shitholes where the powerful fuck the weak. It’s like 1984, only Big Brother has a Kalashnikov as well as a boot.

  124. 124.

    danielx

    @Chris:

    They still want to refight the Iraq War with a new country in Iraq’s place, confront the problem they wish they were facing instead of the one they’re actually facing, and hope that works.

    Fuck the Iraq War – they want to refight World War II, since they were never able to realize their fondest dream: a war with the Soviet Union. Failing that, a war with China.

    Kidding – the last thing the New Neocon Band wants to do is fight a war involving heavy casualties or higher taxes, particularly with someone who might beat us. That might remind people that wars do have actual costs, aside from the costs born by the poor miserable bastards who have to fight them.

  126. 126.

    Mike E

    @danielx:

    they want to refight World War II, since they were never able to realize their fondest dream: the evisceration of FDR and his New Deal.

    Target acquired, long ago.

  127. 127.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Cervantes: Similar? A civilian aircraft shot down by a standing military force of an internationally-recognized nation-state, which mistook the aircraft or its manner of operation for a military threat. Iran Air 655, KAL 007, KAL 902, El Al 402, Siberian Air 1812, that sort of thing.

  128. 128.

    Cervantes

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Similar? A civilian aircraft shot down by a standing military force of an internationally-recognized nation-state, which mistook the aircraft or its manner of operation for a military threat. Iran Air 655, KAL 007, KAL 902, El Al 402, Siberian Air 1812, that sort of thing.

    Some differences:

    (1) Iran Air 655 was shot down by US forces; the others were shot down by Soviet (USSR, Bulgarian, and Ukrainian) forces.

    (2) Iran Air 655 was shot down by a billion-dollar, ultra-modern Aegis guided-missile cruiser; and

    (3) Iran Air 655’s electronic and dynamic profile as it was shot down — a bulky and clumsy passenger airliner rising immediately after take-off — could have in no way resembled the profile the US crew claimed to have detected: a US-made Tomcat, descending quickly in their direction in order to attack. Was there such a large discrepancy in the other cases you mention?

    To me, these and other differences outweigh the superficial similarity you posit.

    By the way, never mind censure: are you suggesting that those Soviet and Bulgarian and Ukrainian forces were decorated for meritorious service after making their various mistakes? As you know, the captain and crew of the Vincennes were. Another salient difference?

  129. 129.

    D58826

    @Cervantes: Not only that but none of the other US Navy ships in the area viewed the rdar target as a threat. The Viennese was referred to as ‘robocruser’ because of its aggressive behavior. If I remember it was also a hundred miles or so north of the position that it was supposed to be in. If it had been at its assigned station the shoot down probably never would have happened. But since it was an American ship it was an accident. On the other hand KAL007 could not possibly have been an accident. Since it was a Soviet pilot it just had to be cold blooded murder. The Great and powerful Ronnulus was able to hold both thoughts at the same time.

  130. 130.

    Cervantes

    @D58826:

    Not only that but none of the other US Navy ships in the area viewed the rdar target as a threat. The [Vincennes] was referred to as ‘robocruser’ because of its aggressive behavior.

    Right on both counts.

    By the way, Will Rogers, the captain of the Vincennes, later wrote a book, Storm Center. It is the very model of dishonesty.

  131. 131.

    BobS

    @Cervantes: And of course, just who is responsible for shooting down MH-17 remains a mystery despite immediate attribution of blame by the Obama administration. For whatever reason, the US government has refused to release any evidence it may have.

  132. 132.

    Zinsky

    Rumsfeld is human filth. That letter should be Exhibit A in his war crimes tribunal at Nuremberg!

  135. 135.

    Paul in KY

    @Egilsson: Styx is/was a great band. Wish Dennis could reunite with them. I also like Nickleback. Not one of my most favorite bands, but they have several killer songs.

  136. 136.

    dmbeaster

    @Certified Mutant Enemy:

    I’m sure you’ll be first in line to enlist….

    Or better yet, send your own children and grandchildren to die for GOP war fantasies since it is a certainty that they will not send their own.

  137. 137.

    dmbeaster

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    It would be even nicer if Bush hadn’t caused the chaos in the first place.

    Obama has spent so much time cleaning up
    all the elephant poop from the last GOP circus that GOP forget where it came from.

  139. 139.

    dmbeaster

    @BobS:

    And of course, just who is responsible for shooting down MH-17 remains a mystery 

    No. It is not a mystery, except to whether the shoot down order came from a Russian or a Ukranian rebel. Most likely the order was from some Ukranian rebel dolt but the missle shot was conducted by Russians operating with them since it is doubtful that Ukranian rebels could operate the missle system capable of bringing down an airliner flying at 35,000 feet.

  140. 140.

    lethargytartare

    the problem with Nickelback is they’re that special kind of terrible that lurks in the grey between high-school garage band bad and Britney Spears bad.

    They’re not quite completely useless musicians, but neither are they quite 100% autotunepopsynth bullshit.

    they’re the type of band you know is horrible deep down, but still find yourself humming their dross anyway.

    so thanks, everyone, for putting “how you remind me” on repeat play in my head. I think I’d prefer a shot of Malort.

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