Watching a GoT marathon, but BBC just sent me a text that Hill has announced.
If I am going to have to relive all the Clinton era bullshit, can I at least be as skinny as I was in the 90’s?
— John Cole (@Johngcole) April 12, 2015
Note to the usual suspects, I said Clinton era bullshit, not Clinton bullshit, because really, the HRC diehards around here are almost as annoying as the right wing nutjobs who hate every fiber of her being.
/troll
*** Update ***
Also too:
HRA
I agree! Keeping out of the fray to protect my sanity.
Baud
Dammit. I had not gonna run in the office pool.
Germy Shoemangler
Not yet on her twitter:
https://twitter.com/hillaryclinton
Wife, mom, lawyer, women & kids advocate, FLOAR, FLOTUS, US Senator, SecState, author, dog owner, hair icon, pantsuit aficionado, glass ceiling cracker, TBD…
eemom
Hi, Cole.
It’s going to be a looooong 18 months.
/mantra
Fair Economist
I liked the announcement video. Less inequality and a chance for everybody – I can get behind that. No entitlement either: “I’m hitting the road to earn your vote.”
Baud
@Germy Shoemangler: NYT has it up. Says there is a video announcement.
Kropadope
I just watched the announcement video. I was surprised by how amenable it made me feel. Though I was more or less expecting the Darth Vader theme, so she might be benefitting from my expectations.
Baud
Oh, so now the ERA is bad because Clinton supports it?!
WaterGirl
Love the jaunty little leg thrown over the side of the arm of the chair.
Fair Economist
Clinton announcement video
WaterGirl
@Baud: Were you one of the bad kids in school? :-)
I ask for two reasons: one, I just want to know, and 2) I always like to sit at the bad kids table at holidays because it’s much more fun.
Germy Shoemangler
@Baud: The video announcement makes it more about us than her.
Major Major Major Major
Decent video. Feels like a campaign and not a coronation. Good themes. Hit the right notes. Maybe she knows what she’s doing this time.
Made the mistake of reading a few comments on a “real” news site and, oh shit, I’m never leaving balloon juice again.
I mean I know I’m a little off my rocker, but the rest of the Internet can apparently neither think not spell.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
Lovey still seems a little wary of the big unknown dog, but it’s been, what, less than 24 hours?
I am glad that Hillary has finally announced so we can criticize her 2016 campaign instead of rehashing 2008 for the 143,753,852,563rd time.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Damn, I initially thought you were talking about Clinton’s announcement video.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Sadly, no. I was a nerd in school, but not one of the cool nerds you have nowadays. But I got better.
Baud
@Germy Shoemangler:
The video featured a dog. I am appeased.
the Conster
Lovey’s home!! Although I imagine her wondering where Thurston is :(.
ETA: I like geg6’s John. That guy’s a keeper. :)
Keith G
Ooops correcting for a reading error.
Baud
@Germy Shoemangler:
Yeah, at first I thought it was a bad link because I was wondering who all these ordinary people were.
Germy Shoemangler
@Baud: If it were Rand Paul’s video, that would be a clip art dog.
JPL
@Kropadope: Me too. I was pleasantly surprised.
Baud
@Germy Shoemangler:
Copied from wikipedia.
Germy Shoemangler
@Baud: I made the same mistake! Saw all the everyday people and thought the NYtimes got confused. Then I skipped ahead and saw her face. Now I’m a believer. (cue Monkees theme)
Smart of her because the repub meme is “she’s all ego, it’s all about her, she thinks she can waltz in” etc.
That’s how SNL mocked her last night: “Citizens of earth.. I am your new leader” etc.
She’s listening to Robby Mook.
Keith G
And I wanted to add
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
Solid observation
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Germy Shoemangler: how long before we see a three-handed reel of Hillary impersonations with Kate McKinnon, Amy Poehler and Hillary Clinton? September, 2016?
Germy Shoemangler
@WaterGirl: Jeebus! For a minute I thought you were talking about Hillary!
Baud
Someone in an earlier thread asked about Hillary’s meeting with Elizabeth Warren. The “deck is still stacked” comment in the video is pure Warren.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Baud: Damn it, so did I.
Baud
@Keith G:
Ditto.
socraticsilence
On the upside- Other than possible Clinton Foundation stuff, I can’t see any actual scandals popping up.
On the downside- This does kind of feel like Romney in 2012 or McCain in 2008 in the sense that “its her turn” and that there doesn’t seem to be be any real enthusiasm for the candidate as opposed to simply disliking the opposition. I worry about there being way to little grassroots support to run an Obama style campaign focused on both low dollar, highly motivated volunteers and the usual high dollar donors and ads.
Germy Shoemangler
@Major Major Major Major: Made the mistake of reading a few comments on a “real” news site and, oh shit, I’m never leaving balloon juice again.
I know, this place definitely spoiled me. I ventured into my local news, and the ignorance of the commenters brought my head right down. They repeat every discredited lie, and they’re convinced the MSM is covering for her. What??
the Conster
@Germy Shoemangler:
My hopes and fears rest on someone named Mook. Teh googley thing’s first hit tells me that mook means a stupid or incompetent person. The jokes, they write themselves.
eemom
I do think Big Dawg as First Gentleman is kind of a fun concept.
socraticsilence
Addendum: Hoping against hope that Hillary ditches 90% of the Clinton Admin Campaign people who are clearly, clearly well behind the times in terms of what works both logistically and in terms of messaging and response. The aforementioned lack of enthusiasm combined with inept operations could lose a winnable race.
Germy Shoemangler
@the Conster: Try googling Bush
WaterGirl
@Baud: I don’t believe R-rated version of the video has been released yet.
Germy Shoemangler
@WaterGirl: You need to go to vimeo to see that. It features her jaunty little leg thrown over the side of the arm of the chair.
mdblanche
@Fair Economist: Unpossible. I have it on good authority that Clinton is insisting on a coronation at which we all make a pledge of loyalty to her and her Wall Street courtiers.
Kropadope
You know what? Hell, I’m in.
My bold. While I don’t expect her to do much to dissuade Super PACs from working on her behalf, she’s not exploiting this glaring loophole,in defiance of the spirit of the law. I could swing back, but as long as I don’t see her cynically exploiting the landscape for political advantage and accelerating the horrifying campaign finance arms race, that speaks more to trying to earn votes than most things she’s done over her career.
JordanRules
Oh hey Lovey and Koda!
Keith G
@Major Major Major Major:
She is a hard worker and is very smart. I am betting that she has learned from the past and besides she is at a much different place in life than eight years ago.
Haven’t watched it yet, but will be clicking soon. In 2005, I figured I would be voting for her in 2008, but something else happened. I am looking to her showing me that she deserves my vote and my energy working toward her election. I think that she will do that.
Cervantes
@the Conster:
Not the first time she’s hired him. Plus he has worked for Dean and he ran McAuliffe’s winning gubernatorial campaign.
And laugh at themselves, too!
Major Major Major Major
@Keith G: oh, no doubt she’s very smart and capable, despite my disagreements I may have with her. She’s quite a remarkable woman. But her last campaign was just such a disaster.
Kropadope
@Keith G:
This idea always seems curious to me, like there’s a secret Hillary Clinton that the current model has been keeping under a tarp for 23 years.
Valdivia
Good video. That last line is a keeper: ‘hit the road to earn your vote’
I think Mook will run a Plouffe-like campaign and that will be good. They just need more discipline from the thousands of surrogates who are still in 2008 Penn-Lanny Davis mode.
Lovey is a lovey. So happy she’s found her forever home.
WaterGirl
@Baud: It’s not well known, but the nerd version of the “it gets better” campaign was the precursor to the more well known campaign from a few years ago. They were apparently right then, too, it did get better!
germy shoemangler
The GOP did not wait for her announcement to begin their campaign against her. The party’s chairman, Reince Priebus, has outlined plans for a broad effort to try to undermine her record as secretary of state while arguing that her election would be like giving Obama a “third term.”
Republicans have jumped on Clinton’s use of a personal email account and server while she was secretary of state, as well as her handling of the 2012 terrorist attack in Benghazi, Libya.
Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, in his own online video, said Sunday: “We must do better than the Obama-Clinton foreign policy that has damaged relationships with our allies and emboldened our enemies.”
the Conster
@eemom:
If by fun you mean fraught with all kinds of drama, then yeah, agreed.
Tree With Water
“..the HRC diehards around here are almost as annoying as the right wing nutjobs who hate every fiber of her being”.
There is a sensible middle ground between the two extremes. It is possible to acknowledge her many talents, yet still deem her unfit for the office of the presidency.
socraticsilence
She’s going to need a good answer on why one of her main disagreements with the Obama Admin was on “arming the Syrian Rebels” because seriously, that’s looks Lindsey Graham level dumb right now.
Also, It will be interesting to see to what degree she runs away from Obama given one of the main Clinton personnel criticisms of the Gore Campaign was that he ran too far from Bill.
shell
Lovey looks like she’s got that straddle thing going good, as she checks out the ShopRite sale circular.
D58826
And to the photo – somebody has made her self to home
JordanRules
I like her video; it’s a good start. Eager to see who else throws their hat in the ring too.
Baud
@Tree With Water:
True, but no self-respecting Juicer would be caught dead there.
Dave C
I wish her website had some policy information on it, but hopefully that will be added ASAP.
Edit: Also, I really kind of hate that logo she’s got with the H and the arrow.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Cool. I got better without seeing those videos.
gogol's wife
LOVEY IS ADORABLE! Good Koda.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@socraticsilence:
I think people are wary because of the 2008 meltdown. If she really does listen to Mook and is able to keep her overenthusiastic “helpers” like Carville and Panetta reined in, I think most of us who are currently holding back to see how things go will become more enthusiastic.
the Conster
@Cervantes:
I believe that humans have the unique intelligence to understand that life really is just a big fucking hoot. I believe at the end of the day, my last breath will be used to laugh in utter amazement at the wonderful absurdity of it all.
The Dangerman
One often lead to the other, i.e.:
Clinton era bullshit: Whitewater
Clinton bullshit: Rose Law Firm records magically appearing
Clinton era bullshit: Gennifer Flowers, PCJ
Clinton bullshit: Monica
Major Major Major Major
@Dave C: I get the impression there’s a whitepaper circulating or something since I have seen reportage on policy outlines. No real surprises. Big economic focus.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne (tablet): I mean what little I’ve learned about her campaign on her announcement day already has me well into “benefit of the doubt” territory.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major:
It’s not unusual for policy specifics to be filled in over the course of the campaign.
Major Major Major Major
@the Conster: I’ve always thought my last words would be “wait. WHAT??”
Keith G
@Kropadope: I believe that individuals who want to grow, both intellectually and emotionally will do so. It doesn’t mean that they are a different person.
Sometimes struggle and especially a resounding defeat can give one a better sense of their personal inventory. Then it’s up to them to figure out how to put that experience and new knowledge to a good use.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major:
Mine, of course, will be “I blame Obama.”
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: well no, of course not. Sometimes they can even change halfway through!
D58826
@Tree With Water: Unless there is a credible alternative on the democratic side (and I don’t think lightening will strike twice with E. Warren) then HRC is the candidate. Now we can sulk about it like the Kennedy wing in 1980 which helped give us the great and powerful Ronnulus the I. That also gave us union busting, record deficits, iran-contra, tax cuts for the wealthy as a cure all. Anton Scalia and in Reagan s third term under bush 41 C. Thomas.
In 2000 Gore wasn’t good enough so Ralph Nader siphoned off enough votes in Fla to give us Bush 43, and two wars, one great recession, record deficits, katrina, the torture memos, gitmo and John Roberts/Sam Alito.
HRC might not be Glenda the good witch of the North but she is far and away better than the GOP alternative. Bush is the best of the lot even though that is a very low bar to get over. President Cruz anyone
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@germy shoemangler:
Oh, please don’t throw us in the briar patch of promising a third Obama term.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XZMcVaMH8VY
Because there’s not a single situation I can’t think of a Futurama quote for.
Kropadope
@Keith G: Yeah, but she’s put some pretty high-grade awful out there even within the last couple years (see: arming Syria and outlook on Obama’s record re: ISIS and ebola). She’s extremely suspect as far as foreign policy and I definitely want to hear what she has to say going forward.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Reince should’ve given this a bit more thought. A fourth Bush term? that’s what he’s gonna sell?
the Conster
Let the spinning begin! If the Hillbot can channel Elizabeth Warren’s message because her triangulation DNA tells her there’s a WIDE open field to the left of the GOP, then… go long for the touchdown!!
socraticsilence
@Kropadope:
She could float a role for Obama moving forward- Supreme Court, SoS etc, or at least bring on some of the major policy people– I think what a lot of people fear is a full scale return to the Clinton Admin era triangulation as policy crap.
Dave C
@Major Major Major Major:
Cool, I’ll look for that at some point. I’m sure her economic proposals will be solid, if overly centrist. As for foreign policy, I would very much like Hilary to convince me that she is unlikely to engage in any foreign military adventures while President.
Tenar Darell
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I was trying to think how many SNL comedians have played her over the past, umm 25 years?
Cervantes
@the Conster, quoting Congressman John Lewis:
(Just kidding.)
Kay
@germy shoemangler:
I just think Jeb Bush running on foreign policy is a horrible idea. There is no set of circumstances where that’s a good idea. It’s like they have A Rule- “attack perceived strengths” and they just apply it without any thought at all, no matter how perilous that is for someone like, oh, Jeb Bush.
Kropadope
@socraticsilence: I’m more concerned with the tendency to accept MSM framing and the spread of conventional wisdom spurious ‘facts’ AKA lies.
germy shoemangler
@Kay: I agree.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Well, promising a third Bush term worked for John McCain, right?
I really think Republicans are vastly underestimating how much people came to hate Bush. So far, the answer to those stupid “Miss Me Yet?” bumper stickers has been a resounding “Nope!”
Valdivia
@socraticsilence:
a big fear is that she will spend the whole campaign trying to make Obama the bad guy somehow. She will need to define herself but I think running as if she is rejecting his 8 years and accomplishments would be a big mistake. I get the sense she won’t but for a lot of her surrogates, that is reflexively their mode. Need to get rid of them.
D58826
I rather suspect that she will not be able to do that. Who knows what will happen in the next 4 years. Wilson ‘kept us out of war’ until he didn’t . I just want someone who isn’t trigger happy like the current crop of the GOP. Never thought I would say this but Rand Paul actually said something that I can agree with and that is ‘there is no place on the globe that the rest of the GOP doesn’t want to put troops’.
Fair Economist
@socraticsilence:
Understandable, but the Clintons are politicians and triangulation was a means to an end, which was getting elected. It won’t help anymore because of the polarization of the electorate. The route to Democratic success today is getting unreliable voters inspired; she’s smart enough to know that and the announcement video shows she’s going that route.
Josie
@Tree With Water:
I was with you right up until that last sentence. I question whether any male candidate who has been a senator and the secretary of state, among other achievements, would be considered “unfit” for the office. I call bullshit on that. She might not be your first choice but she is qualified.
Davis X. Machina
We’re doomed. Cruz/Rubio/Bush/Walker carries 30 states.
Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida are gone.
(Was I first? I wanted to get that in early…)
germy shoemangler
@Dave C: As for foreign policy, I would very much like Hilary to convince me that she is unlikely to engage in any foreign military adventures while President. I’m not sure ANY presidential candidate would promise that Because they would be accused of “encouraging our enemies” or some such thing.
Keith G
@socraticsilence:
I doubt that she would do that and there are reasons why that would be a quite harmful idea.
Plus I have no doubt that the Family Obama has other plans.
NotMax
Our long national nightmare…
…begins.
Kropadope
@Josie:
If they held those offices and accomplished little to nothing to negative and were Democrats, those men would definitely be deemed by most to be unfit for office.
germy shoemangler
@Valdivia: From the NY TIMES:
Yet Mrs. Clinton and her team have decided that, on balance, the risk of lining up near Mr. Obama’s record is worth taking.
Rather than run from Mr. Obama, she intends to turn to him as one of her campaign’s most important allies and advocates — second only, perhaps, to her husband, the other president whose record will hover over her bid.
In a general election, Mr. Obama is expected to help Mrs. Clinton raise money, and he would be asked to campaign for her in, among other places, the most heavily African-American counties of the swing states that he won in 2008 and 2012, according to numerous people briefed on the plans, who discussed them on the condition of anonymity.
Mr. Obama would most likely be scarce on the stump in places like Ohio and Pennsylvania, where Mrs. Clinton defeated him in the 2008 primaries by appealing to women and white working-class voters.
Kay
@germy shoemangler:
I love how one-sided the thinking is: “we will attack her foreign policy credentials!”. Okay but elections are comparisons- right after they do that Jeb Bush or Scott Walker have to be the better option. That’s where the genius plan falls apart :)
It’s not “Hillary Clinton on foreign policy versus any imaginable foreign policy” They have these candidates they have to deal with.
eemom
@Baud:
For all the infinity zillion comments that have and will be made upon this blog as the matter progresses, to my mind, there is but one litmus test: fuck anyone who won’t vote for Hillz, assuming she is the Democratic candidate.
Just, fuck them. End of story.
Josie
@Kropadope: I suppose the question would be who decides if nothing was accomplished in those positions. Opinions vary.
PurpleGirl
Awww, how cute. Koda and Lovey are sorting out there places.
rikyrah
looks like family geg is getting along well with the new addition
rikyrah
ON BALANCE?
ON BALANCE?
GET THE PHUCK OUTTA HERE.
But, President Obama won BOTH states handily.
They haven’t learned SHYT from 2008.
Valdivia
@germy shoemangler: glad to read that, though the thinking that he will be limited to certain kind of voting blocks seems misguided to me.
He may have lost OH & PA to her in 2008 but he won both of them in a general election in 2012! That is the kind of thinking that worries me–keep him at arms length in a state he won twice? really?
But I am not judging until I see how it plays out down the road. I may not be crazy about her but I will vote for her and campaign for her.
Kropadope
@Josie: Well, she did a good job in the Senate providing the Rs ass coverage for their wars and making thing harder for families who go into bankruptcy. At State, she was fantastic at not being John Bolton. So there’s that.
Roger Moore
That one’s up to you. If you really put your mind to it, maybe you can get there. I’m working on it, myself, though I have quite a way yet to go to my early Clinton administration weight.
Dave C
@germy shoemangler:
Well, I guess I just mean that I would like to believe that she is closer to Rand Paul than John McCain when it comes to the voluntary use of military force overseas. However, I fear that the reverse is true, and that concerns me greatly.
Edit for grammar and clarity
WaterGirl
@Josie: Characteristics such as honesty, trust, and integrity also come into play when deciding if someone is fit for office.
Amir Khalid
But can Hillary win Bruce Springsteen’s endorsement?
Suzanne
I thought the video was great. HRC looks strong, smart, capable, and ready to work hard.
I think we could do so, so, so much worse, y’all.
Kropadope
@WaterGirl: It’s not enough to vote for her, you have to believe in the hagiography also.
Davis X. Machina
@Suzanne: Yeah. So she didn’t sound like Maggie Thatcher.
That doesn’t mean she isn’t like Maggie Thatcher.
germy shoemangler
Hillary Clinton would be an “excellent president,” U.S. President Barack Obama said on Saturday, one day before his former secretary of state is expected to announce her campaign for the White House in 2016.
“She was a formidable candidate in 2008, she was a great supporter of mine in the general election, she was an outstanding secretary of state, she is my friend. I think she would be an excellent president,” Obama said during a news conference at the Americas summit in Panama City.
dogwood
@Kropadope:
“Unqualified” an “unfit” have completely different connotations. You know that and everyone here knows that. The swift boat book was not entitled “Unqualified for “Command”. You sound like Jerome Coursi.
Baud
@eemom:
I don’t think that’ll be an issue for most people here. Even Askew has said he or she will vote for her if she is the nominee.
Corner Stone
@Suzanne:
I heard from a reliable source at BJ she’s been strangling then drinking the blood of foster puppies.
Keeps one bon vivant!
WaterGirl
@Baud: You knew that was a joke, right?
Roger Moore
@the Conster:
You have obviously never watched crows flying on a windy day. They obviously know that life is a hoot, and they’re having fun playing in the wind while they have the chance.
Bobby Thomson
@Kropadope: I think it’s a huge mistake.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Valdivia:
Honestly, I’m taking anything the MSM says about her campaign strategy with a giant grain of salt. They have their narrative that says Obama is a failed, unpopular president, and no facts will be allowed to get in the way of that pre-digested story.
To me, one of the really hopeful signs is that she hired the guy who did McAuliffe’s gubernatorial campaign as her campaign manager. From everything I’ve read, that campaign was careful not to take minority voters for granted and spent s lot of time working to win their vote. If Hillary knows ahead of time that she has fences she’s going to need to mend and is willing to do that work, that’s a good sign.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
No. shakes fist at you
D58826
@rikyrah: Better to be hung for a wolf than a sheep. The GOP will try to hang Bill and Barak around her neck no matter what she decides to do. Better to pick the strong points from both presidents and emphasize them in comparison to Bush 43. For example both Bill and Barak have better records on job creation so go with it. As far a Obamacare maybe you don’t use the words Obamacare but you can emphasize the reforms such as no pre-existing conditions, kids on parents plan till age 26. From what I’ve seen, Obamacare still polls badly but if you ask about the individual pieces they are popular. The democrats ran as far away from Obama as they could in 2014 and see how well that worked out. It’s not like the GOP isn’t going to bring up the subject
PaulW
Look, I am going to vote for Hillary. I will vote entirely against any Republican, by GOD, and Hillary can keep them out of the White House.
But for the LOVE OF GOD, Hillary, will you HIRE better campaign experts?! Your 2016 logo looks like a goddamn hospital sign.
Tenar Darell
@socraticsilence: That would be some seriously awesome wingnut head explosions if Hillary nominated Barry for the Court. Dooo eet!
Josie
@WaterGirl: That is true, but whether or not a person has those qualities is also a matter of opinion.
Kay
@Suzanne:
I thought it was good too. She has an advantage because she doesn’t have to do a self-aggrandizing biographical story :) She can literally come last in the video.
Roger Moore
@Valdivia:
I think you’re over-reading that. The way I read it, she’ll concentrate her own energies on areas where she outperformed Obama, and ask him to work as a surrogate in places where he outperformed her. That seems like a sensible way of dividing up the effort.
WaterGirl
@Baud: rut roh.
Kropadope
@dogwood: Right, they also have different denotations. And unqualified would be like someone pulled at random from behind a McDonald’s counter. She might be perceived as unfit because of her long history in the top reaches of government with little accomplishment and many bad decisions. You sound like you’ve never encountered a dictionary.
Like I said earlier in this thread, so far she’s showing signs of being someone worth supporting. Still, her devotees will accept nary cross word. Fortunately, my support for her is contingent on what she does and no one else.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@germy shoemangler:
I have no doubt that there are friends of Hillary’s who are still holding grudges about 2008, but I honestly don’t think that she or Bill are holding any. Juding by what everyone is saying so far, I think she’s going to run on Team Obama. The MSM is going to do everything in their power to create a conflict between them, but I really think they’re united.
Major Major Major Major
I will say, I wish the gay couple in the video had been less “let’s check the gay couple box off the checklist” and more “here’s some people who happen to be gay”, but it’s not like hill’s record on gay rights needs burnishing.
LanceThruster
The pupdate is comforting. Yes we ascribe human feelings to our pets, but Lovey is in an entirely new environment where what the future holds for her is entirely a mystery to her at this moment, and Thurston is now without his sister.
Fortunately, with Maslow’s hierarchy of needs being met, they will all adapt in short order…as will we.
I suppose the same holds true for Hillary’s run.
askew
I am in agreement with Cole, I wish I had my skinny ’90s body back. I sure didn’t appreciate it back then. Metabolism slowdown sucks.
As for the Hillary video, I really hope her supporters were impressed with that. It reminded me of an ad campaign for Blue Cross or Fidelity. But, I am certainly not inclined to be impressed by anything she does. It was definitely focus grouped to death. I personally prefer the approach Obama took. I will say that she looks great though. She definitely looks rested after her long hours at State.
WaterGirl
@Josie: No disagreement there.
Kropadope
@Bobby Thomson: Why? It’s not like she’s going to be lacking for money or public supporters or that people who want to donate millions to Super PACs won’t do so on their own.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@germy shoemangler:
I didn’t see it was from the NY Times. Now I know for sure that it’s made-up bullshit. ;-)
Roger Moore
@D58826:
And health care is one area where Hillary ought to have very good credibility. She tried to get universal health care back in the 90’s, so you know she’s going to fight the Republicans tooth and claw to protect it now that we have it.
Suzanne
@Davis X. Machina: Maggie Thatcher? Oh please.
Seriously.
Some of youse guys seem to me to have impossibly high standards for, well, everything. Not quite sure why.
askew
@socraticsilence:
I think she’d be better off criticizing Obama on economic issues which is where most Dems think he could have done more. If she was better on education issues, I’d say to go after Obama there. But, her policies on education suck as much as Obama’s do. She goes after him on FP and it will just remind everyone that her FP views suck.
nancydarling
@D58826: I couldn’t agree more. One of Al Gore’s fatal errors (besides picking Droopy Dog for a running mate) was running as far as he could away from Bill Clinton. He should have said “I don’t condone some of Bill’s personal behavior but he is my friend and this is what we accomplished together.”
Hillary needs to embrace Barack Obama and his accomplishments.
As for Cole:
Start counting carbs instead of calories. Avoid white stuff. I have been on a ketogenic diet for just a few days and I put on a pair of jeans today that were really hard to button before—today they were a breeze! I can guarantee 20 pounds of weight loss in a month if you cut carb grams to less than 40/day. After you have got the weight off, you can gradually bump up the carb count until you find what works for you in maintenance.
I miss bread because I am a nut about it. Also ice cream, potatoes and other white stuff. I am basically eating high quality protein and low carb,mostly green vegetables.
Valdivia
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
yes this is exactly why I am taking everything with a grain of salt. Mook seems to be a Plouffe-clone so that gives me confidence.
@Roger Moore: I hope so. As I said I am taking everything with a grain of salt now specially if its in the press. I am going to judge by the actions of the campaign and that is all. For me having a Dem in the WH takes precedence over everything!
Debbie
@HRA: @Valdivia:
I have a relatively strong memory of Rushbo urging his minions to cross over and vote for Clinton in the primary (at least in Ohio).
Amir Khalid
Just read this HILLARY IS DOOMED piece in Salon. This guy Bill Curry seems gleefully pessimistic about her chances, like he’s holding some grudge against her from his days in Bill’s White House. I wonder what’s up with that.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@askew:
Serious question: if she did win the nomination and picked O’Malley as her VP, would you be on board with that? I suspect she’s going to need a white dude as her VP to reassure voters the same way Obama needed Biden.
askew
@Josie:
I think she’s unfit due to her temperament issues, her age, her issues with honesty and ethical problems. Pretty much the same reasons I thought McCain was unfit. And McCain is more qualified on paper than Hillary is now. It isn’t always about her gender.
D58826
@Mnemosyne (tablet): She and Bill are political realists. They can hold a grudge and lose or hide the grudge and win. I think they would rather be back at 1600 Pennsylvania ave then have a public grudge fight. I’m sure there are hard feelings after all there are 4 egos (including Michelle) involved here that each would fill the universe.
Baud
@Amir Khalid:
No.
Corner Stone
@askew:
Good Fucking Christ.
Chris T.
(I’ll repeat a comment here because stealing from Lehrer is too good to pass up…)
The Republicans have decided that in 2016, they will have a position on income inequality in the US.
They’re for it.
D58826
@askew:
pray tell exactly how is McCain more qualified? There isn’t a country that he doesn’t want to bomb or invade. And this is the man who decided the Wacko from Wasilla belonged a heartbeat away from the oval office.
Corner Stone
@Suzanne:
DMX’s humor fits in better at LGM than here. He is attempting to “heighten the contradictions”, as it were.
nancydarling
@Amir Khalid: Amir, there is a guy here in Arkansas who comments a lot on a blog I read. He has had some connection to the Clintons—not sure if it was Bill’s governor days or when he was in the White House. He is obsessed with the Clintons and never misses an opportunity to stick the knife in and give it a twist.
The other day I suggested to him that nursing such a grievance for decades might be shortening his life span and perhaps he should get on with his life.
Josie
@Corner Stone: I am a bad person. I laughed out loud at your comment.
askew
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
My problems with Hillary have always been her judgment, her character, her ethical issues and her lack of leadership ability. I also think she is too damn old to be president. I’d like to see O’Malley get the VP slot so he can build towards a run in 8 years (or 4 if Hillary loses the general). I can’t say I’ll be excited about the ticket though because I don’t trust her to make the right decision when she is in the Oval Office. I will definitely vote for her in the general regardless of her running mate though.
I think she is pretty much inevitable though, so I am going to just have to get over it and resign myself to a huge step backwards after Obama leaves office.
Amir Khalid
@askew:
How so? Was McCain ever Secretary of State?
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@D58826:
I’m guessing that Bill and Michelle hold more of a grudge over 2008 than Hillary and Barack do. It’s always easier to forgive an insult against yourself than it is to forgive one against a loved one. But as long as everyone smiles and says nice things about teamwork and how much they owe to each other in public, I don’t really care what their private feelings are.
Cervantes
@Corner Stone:
Vince Foster puppies?
WaterGirl
@LanceThruster: I really appreciate your thoughtful comment about the pups. I am finding myself surprisingly concerned about how the pups are doing with the separation, and not just the young ones. And maybe not just the canine ones!
Davis X. Machina
@Suzanne: I don’t think “Undead Zombie Eugene V. Debs” is an unreasonably high standard…
askew
@D58826:
I said on paper he is more qualified. I certainly think he is a nutjob and his policy views are deplorable. But, on paper he served in the Senate for 16 years and the House for 4 years when he ran in 2008. He also was a decorated war hero and ex-prisoner of war. He has been heavily involved in foreign policy while in the Senate and has some signature legislation that has been enacted while in the Senate.
Hillary had 8 years in the Senate and 4 years at State on her resume. With no signature accomplishments at either post. On paper, he is more qualified.
I wouldn’t vote for McCain under any circumstances whereas I will vote for Hillary should she win the nomination.
Belafon
@Major Major Major Major:
It was bad compared to Obama’s, which was as nearly a perfect campaign as could be run. But I’m pretty sure she’s learned.
nancydarling
@Valdivia:
THIS!
For any of you not willing to work your ass off if she’s the nominee, I’ve got two words for you: Supreme Court.
If a republican gets to nominate one or two more ideologues to the Supremes, we are well and truly fucked for decades.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
Last thing before I head out for grocery shopping: I strongly suspect that online Obots and PUMAs are holding way more grudges than any of the Obamas or Clintons are. By all accounts, Barack and Hillary worked really well together and I see no reason to doubt his statements that he thinks she’ll make a good president.
Belafon
@Dave C:
I wouldn’t believe any presidential candidate that promised that. The president is the engagement with the rest of the world, some of which involve the military. No stupid wars is the best you can get.
Corner Stone
@Josie: I hear ya. But I don’t think the kind of derangement and separation from reality askew has repeatedly displayed is humorous, in the least.
Anyone who can just flat out state that kind of nonsense deems themselves unworthy of being in a rational public sphere of commentary.
askew
@Amir Khalid:
No, but he served in the military, was a decorated war veteran and ex-prisoner of war. He’s been involved in FP while in the Senate. He was heavily involved in restoring a relationship with Vietnam while in the Senate. He also served longer than she did in the Senate and served in the House which Hillary never did. He also has a signature achievements while in the Senate, unlike Hillary. He has McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform Act and his work on POW/MIA issues.
AxelFoley
@rikyrah: Right? Obama won those states. Why wouldn’t they want him there?
FOH, the bullshit is definitely starting.
David Koch
So how are they handling it over at GOS – are they having their usual meltdown?
Suzanne
@Davis X. Machina: LMMFAO.
I get that she isn’t everything we want. I just don’t get people who look at someone who is, say, 75% of what we want and say OH FUCK NO WAY IN HELL, especially when the alternative will be 5% of what we want.
I hope no one judges me that harshly in any context, because I am sure to never measure up to that standard.
Corner Stone
@David Koch: Not sure. But I know you won’t fail to cut and paste comments and text from other sources in the most misleading way possible!
Thanks, bro!
Cervantes
@Amir Khalid:
I remember him from his days as a peace activist. Plus I think he was in the White House for a couple of years.
After the ’96 election, he did run (twice, I think) to become governor of Connecticut, and I know that HRC, as Senator, helped him to raise funds for those (unsuccessful) efforts.
Have not yet read the article you cited.
different-church-lady
@Corner Stone:
Sure, but what the hell has that got to do with this place?
LanceThruster
@WaterGirl:
Agreed. The look of relaxed contentment of all concerned is a good sign to be sure and truly bodes well for everyone’s future adjustment.
Part of what it is about love and companionship that sustains us I think is that ripple effect that allows each of us to pay it forward.
Hilfy
Thank all the gods, and the FSM, for pupdates. They will help us stay sane in the coming crazed election cycle. I hope.
Having a new source for Lovey and Koda pics is a godsend. Thanks much to the Greg6 family.
eemom
@askew:
But McCain was more qualified? Ohhhkaaay.
I’m starting to see why you piss people off.
Corner Stone
@Suzanne: Hey, to answer your response in the thread last night, yes, I would be super pumped to acquire some of your art. But I am more than happy to pay for time, materials, labor, creative effort, etc.
Didn’t want to leave that in a dead thread.
askew
@David Koch:
Nah, it’s a love fest over there. The front page is really a Hillary only zone. kos declared her the nominee ages ago and that was it. If you are a Hillary fan, that is the site to hang out at.
Davis X. Machina
@Suzanne: It’s a fashion thing. You don’t wear a knock-off. You save till you can buy the original, or don’t wear it at all.
For a lot of people, politics isn’t actually about policy, or how the polity is governed. It’s a form of self-expression, with choices of candidates taking the place of other consumer choices in a process of social signaling.
They’d register to vote ‘Rag and Bone’, or ‘Carhartt’, if the people at city hall would let them.
Kay
@askew:
His two signature issues were campaign finance and immigration, both of which his Party destroyed, yet he didn’t leave his Party. He sat in the Court and listened as the conservative Supreme Court undid everything he did on campaign finance, and the best he could do was issue an angry screed.
He’s behaved like a spoiled, entitled bitter crank since he lost, unlike, say. John Kerry or Teddy Kennedy who went back to work after they lost and accomplished something. What is his job, exactly? Does he feel any duty at all to do it?
different-church-lady
@Suzanne:
Tweaked for accuracy.
Corner Stone
@different-church-lady: Nothing at all, actually. Just re-emphasizing that the pitiful victimization that’s been attempted is nuts out garbage.
Saying shit like that ain’t all there.
Corner Stone
@Kay: FUCKING SNAP.
Betty Cracker
Lovey is definitely bonding with geg’s John! So sweet.
Thought Hill’s video was pretty good. She definitely put voters rather than herself front and center. We’ll see how that shakes out policy-wise.
@Mnemosyne (tablet): This, this, a thousand times this.
askew
@eemom:
I said on paper. ON PAPER. I also said that I thought McCain was too old in 2008 to be president. But, if you were to line up McCain’s resume with Hillary’s resume I’d say that McCain is more qualified to be president. But, we are not electing someone based on the # of years they have been in public office nor on their actual accomplishments while in office. Their character, their judgment, their age, and their policy views matter as well.
I think McCain and Hillary share similar character flaws and both have poor judgement but Hillary is light years ahead of McCain on policy views which is why I’ll vote for her if she is the nominee. I’d never vote for McCain.
Suzanne
@Davis X. Machina: Who doesn’t wear knockoffs? Um, rich people, aka, people who have all the means to have all the choices.
Back down here on Planet Earth, in a country called the USA, roughly 50% of the electorate are assholes, and 27% are batshit insane. That limits our means to have all the choices.
A knockoff of something good is better than an original of something bad.
I would rather have a print of a Van Gogh than an original Kinkade or Nagel.
Suzanne
@Corner Stone: 10-4. PM me on Book of Faces and tell me what you want—I’m friends with John, and this is my real name.
Mike J
@different-church-lady: All from the same “three or four” [1] people that have never commented on this site about anything other than how awful they think Hillary is. Literally years of not one comment that wasn’t about blind hatred for her.
[1] yeah, right.
D58826
@askew: If it was just their Senate experience I would agree that on paper McCain is more qualified. However good bad or otherwise you can’t ignore the 4 years at state. She was an important part of actually making and implementing US foreign policy. McCain has spend the past six and half years throwing spit balls from the cheap seats.
Davis X. Machina
@Suzanne: See, already you’re settling for the lesser of two evils!
PhilbertDesanex
@Baud: I sorta like ‘Watch THIS! ‘
askew
@Kay:
Oh, I think McCain is a shitheel of a human being and has been throwing a temper tantrum since he lost in 2008. One of the many reasons why I would never support him for president. But, he does have 3 signature accomplishments – working to open up Vietnam relations, POW/MIA work and McCain-Feingold. Plus, his military career. That’s more accomplishments than Hillary has.
I am not defending his character or his policy views. I am just saying that I think he has more experience in public office than she does and has accomplished more than Hillary has in his career.
I wish Hillary had accomplished something impressive during her time at State or in the Senate. It would make it easier to support her.
Suzanne
@Davis X. Machina: “About 75% of what I want” is hardly evil.
askew
@D58826:
But, I’d put McCain’s work on FP with Vietnam and POW/MIA issues along with his time in the military at an equal level with Hillary’s State work. He also served in the House.
If Hillary had accomplished what Kerry as done already at State, I’d think their work was more equivalent. Kerry can point to the Cuba, China and Iran deals. But, Hillary doesn’t have a lot to run on from her time at State. She did a feel good tour which was important but didn’t really yield anything for her to run on. Plus, McCain has done a great deal while in the Senate (both good and bad). Hillary didn’t do much of anything in the Senate.
Kay
@Corner Stone:
Here’s Mr. Resume when he ran over the Latino voters who put him in office:
Compare to Ted Kennedy, who worked with Bush II on immigration.
the Conster
@rikyrah:
Beat you to it.
Cervantes
@askew:
You know I appreciate your comments — and yet this:
I saw you said he’s more qualified on paper. By “on paper” do you mean “ignoring the plethora of atrocious decisions he has made over the years”?
Couldn’t we list those “on paper” as well?
Or are you saying HRC’s record of decision-making is worse, or just shorter?
JPL
@askew: Yes he support those and deserves credit but needs to look at the entire picture. As a whole, I think he has damaged the country especially during the last 6 years.
D58826
@askew:
Not knowing any of the inner workings of the state dept. I don’t think we can say for certain that these are all Kerry initiatives. He will get the credit or blame since they came to fruition on his watch but I suspect a lot of the ground work was laid during HRC’s tenure. These kind of policy shifts don’t happen overnight. IIRC Obama made an approach to Iran early in his first term.
Kay
@askew:
I don’t know how you can say McCain Feingold is an “accomplishment”. He passed campaign finance reform and then worked very hard to put in justices to overturn it?
askew
@D58826:
He got them over the finish line. That is what counts and one of the knocks against Hillary. She can’t successfully lead on anything. She is fine being a behind-the-scenes bureaucrat but she isn’t leadership material. If she was, she’d have accomplished something impressive while at State and in the Senate. She has all this power and prestige and she did almost nothing with it.
Howard Beale IV
If Hillary would commit to undo the damage her spousal unit did in the financial domain, like what GE recently did in shedding GE Capital, I may consider her. Until that time tho, she’s as dangerous as any GOP candidate.
D58826
@Kay: To defend McCain for a bit. When McCain Feingold was passed it seemed like it was consistent with 100 years of campaign reform legislation. I’m not sure that any one would have guessed that the Roberts five would be so aggressive in reversing long standing precedents and finding new constitutional rights for a piece of paper (i.e. a corporation). Given the history of Citizens United court went out of its way to hand down that decision.
David Koch
@Howard Beale IV: hate to tell ya, but watching CNN 20 minutes ago and Goldman Sach’s Lloyd Blankfein just gave her a big endorsement. So there’s that.
ETA: not surprising if you remember that her son-in-law, the father of her granddaughter, is a big wheel at Goldman Sachs.
askew
@Cervantes:
I am not talking about McCain’s judgment. I am saying if both Hillary and McCain presented resumes for the job of president that on paper McCain’s resume would look like he was more qualified. But, he’d clearly tank the interview once he started talking because he is bitter man with decades of bad decision making.
All I was trying to say (and clearly didn’t accomplish) is that saying that you can look qualified for president based on the # of positions you’ve held in public office and # of years of public service you have but still be unfit for office based on character, judgment, temperament.
I am certainly not defending McCain in any way. The guy is a bitter asshole who should have quit the Senate years ago.
Howard Beale IV
OT: It’s Yuri’s Night
TaMara (BHF)
setting a cookie
JordanRules
@D58826: Agreed, what the court started to do left us bug-eyed in the beginning. Now we know what we’re dealing with and will vote any Democratic candidate in office to help fix it.
JPL
@askew: I disagree and Hillary would not be my first choice. She was a darn better Secretary of State than Condi.
D58826
@askew: I guess we will see. No one thought much of Truman when FDR picked him for VP in 1944. He had a short record of beating up on defense contractors but I think that was about it. I suspect that if you had said he would be one of the top five presidents the folks in 1944 woulds have busted a gut laughing.
Elizabelle
Love the Lovey and Koda and John photo. Thanks!
I’m kind of excited about Hillary, mainly because the Republicans are so crazy assed, I think they won’t attract as many votes as in previous years.
sharl
Eh, well, everyone aboard the Clown Car, and Twitter’s gotta twitter, I guess:
ETA: Added the originally forgotten link, fwiw.
HRA
@Debbie:
I never listened to Rushbo. I supported President Obama from before he announced his candidacy. As I said at the top, I will leave it there.
askew
@D58826:
She may surprise me. Maybe buried under all the layers of focus group bullshit, there is an actual leader with great management skills. I doubt it but you never know.
Kay
@D58826:
Obama would have bent over backward to get immigration. He ran on it.
McCain could have redeemed himself ( and done his job) by trying to get an immigration deal. Instead he reversed himself on immigration. His own Party undid everything he’s ever done.
chopper
“Clinton era”? what kind of sexist bullshit is that?
mai naem mobile
I would love to see McCain lose his Senate seat in ’16. I would like to see Obama actively involved in kicking his ass. I think Obama could work on GOTV with the Native Americans especially with the Obama administration settling the Indian trust fund case after decades. Also I think he could do some work in Southern Arizona and gays in the Phoenix area. I know I’ve said this several times and it hasn’t happened but I truly believe Arizona can be a Dem for federal elected offices. I think Kyrsten Sinema ot Ann Kirkpatrick could pull it off if ’16 ends up being a woman’s year or Rich Carmona who ran against Flake and came pretty close. McCain doesn’t have the built.in Mormon vote like Flake does.
dogwood
@Cervantes:
This is why I never could get too exercised over The President bringing in Rahm as his first chief of staff. Obama didn’t have a posse of loyalists he’d been collecting for 30 years. And it’s gotta be a little daunting when you start the job knowing about half the people working for you will cash in when they leave. Rahm’s an ass, and he wasn’t an Obama loyalist but he’s never dished the dirt either spoken or in print about his time in the Clinton administration or his tenure under Nancy Pelosi. It’s very dangerous to staff the West Wing with loyalists, but I can’t really blame a president for choosing an initial chief of staff who wouldn’t leave after a couple of years and write a book. There’s a market for that stuff, and will see a lot of it. None of it will have much effect.
D58826
@askew: A few years back there was a baseball joke that Atlanta was thinking of replacing the grass/astroturf on the baseball field with paper since on paper the Braves were the best team in baseball. On grass/astroturf not so much. Every new president comes in as a blank slate. Sometimes they live up to their resume and sometimes they don’t. Only time will tell.
What does seem to be a given however is the candidates view of the place of government in our society. Democrats are much more comfortable with the idea of an activist government. The GOP at one time (the Nelson Rockefeller era) also was comfortable with a level of government activism. It was Ike who signed off on the biggest public works project in US history – the interstate highway system. Today the GOP is h-;ll bend on strangling all levels of government except where it benefits the 1%,
Keith G
@askew: I feel for you askew, I really do. You are trying so valiantly to find some sand to throw into the gears of support for Hilary. The fact is we all sort of know what there is to know about this public servant and I think that her support will only grow as some of us get reacquainted with who she is and what she wants to do while others of us get to know her for the first time. And in the mix of who she is, there are admirable things as well as those things which aren’t. That’s how it goes.
So, to accomplish your objective you have to reach more than a bit and that cannot feel good to have to repetitively venture out on such thin rhetorical ice.
I’ll say this much, just like Senator McCain’s views on defense policy, you have a conclusion and you are sticking to it.
Mike in NC
Speaking of GoT, pretty much expect the Republicans to portray Hillary Clinton as Cersei Lannister on steroids. Frank Luntz will come up with all sorts of negative phrases. “Emasculating” will be popular.
dogwood
@askew:
I made it pretty clear yesterday that I’m not a big Clinton fan, but in all fairness, there was never going to be a formal change in Cuba policy until after the 2012 election. That would have been political malpractice on Obama’s part. To say that this is evidence she can’t lead or bring anything across the finish line is unconvincing.
Howard Beale IV
@David Koch: Yeah, I know how Chelsea’s spawn is from a minion in the Goldman empire.
The reality is that Goldman, not being a commercial bank, should have never been allowed access to the FRB’s discount window; nor should it have been declared a SIFI.
This goes all the way back when Continental Illinois was rescued by the Fed. Later, LTCM was also bailed out.
LTCM should have never been bailed out. Continental Illinois, at least being a commercial bank, had been backed by the FDIC-the problem here was that the bondholders were backed at 100% while common stock got wiped out. The other ting to remember here is that in Illinois, branch banking during this time was virtually non-existent.
Corner Stone
@Keith G:
Nothing valiant going on there.
Corner Stone
@Howard Beale IV:
I disagree, a little in terms. LTCM should not have been “bailed out”, and they were not. There were multiple deals to take their 100X+ leveraged debt on as obligations but the world would have imploded in 1998 if they hadn’t been secured.
Now, did that lead to the inevitable breaking in 2007-8? Maybe. But the world was not ready for what would have happened if LTCM had been held accountable.
Mike E
@PaulW:
HillaryCare 2: The Rewrappening!
I’ll be sporting whatever signage she’s got should she make it to the Nov ballot.
Suzanne
I quite like the H-with-arrow logo at the end of her video. It’s actually very European in character—instantly reminded me of the London Underground logo.
If nothing else, the Dems routinely smoke the Rethugs in the graphic design arena. Remember the AquaFresh Romney logoFAIL?
Cervantes
@askew:
With this I agree — and examples there are too many to enumerate.
Thanks for clarifying.
Frankly, I wouldn’t describe HRC as the best Democratic candidate we’ve seen in years — and maybe no one would — but the key is that she may be the best we’ll see this time around — I’ll let the nominating process illustrate — and then, like you, I’ll vote for the Democratic nominee because the alternative does not bear contemplating.
Cervantes
@Suzanne:
Forward-arrow!
Cervantes
@David Koch:
He and Chelsea met when they were both teenagers.
Give them a break, if you have it in you.
(Same thing I’ve told mclaren.)
nellcote
Hillary is likeable enough. But this kind of counter-factual bull shit from her supporters is unacceptable.
Planned ParenthoodVerified account@PPact
In US history, there has not been a presidential candidate w/ a stronger commitment to women—or a clearer record on behalf of their health.
askew
@nellcote:
Was Obama any worse on women’s issues than Hillary in 2008? I believe Kerry and Gore had a past of being anti-choice and later evolved. What about Carol Mosley-Braun? Was she worse on women’s health issues?
I’d say Obama in 2012 was a better candidate on women’s health issues than Hillary is now since he enacted Obamacare which was a huge step forward on women’s health issues. Hillary supports Obamacare but she didn’t get it done so I’d give Obama the edge there.
But I do think she is strongest on women’s issues and I can see why her campaign and surrogates/supporters are pushing those issues to the front.
Howard Beale IV
@Corner Stone: They were bailed out, courtesy NYFRB under Turbo Timmeh. Had they not been bailed out, perhaps that might have been the canary in the coal mine that maybe the ideal of using insane amounts of leverage isn’t such a good idea-indeed, the very fact that LTCM was bailed out was the signal that was sent that allowed the massive fraud to occur that led to Great Recession in the first place.
LTCM also proved the old adage: some of the most stupidest people in the world have Ph. D’s, and even worse-suffer from Nobel sickeness.
Howard Beale IV
@Cervantes: And that arrow point RIGHT……
askew
@dogwood:
I can agree that Cuba wasn’t going to happen until after 2012. But, Kerry was the primary driver of the change in Cuba relations. This is something he’s been working on for a long time and all the behind-the-scenes people credit him with doing the major push for it. As for Hillary, I’d be glad to be proven wrong here. She is likely our next Dem nominee and I’d love some evidence that she is a successful leader. What has she led on successfully? I think she cleared the low bar of being better than Bolton and Rice as SoS but that’s about it. She isn’t even the best Obama SoS. That is sort of my problem with her. She is just so remarkably average and her supporters keep shouting that she is this incredible candidate/political figure and I can’t figure out why.
askew
@Cervantes:
Thanks for understanding. I clearly wasn’t articulating my reasoning very well and since most people consider me a troll regarding Hillary I am not going to get the benefit of the doubt.
Corner Stone
@Howard Beale IV: Sorry. Wiki can call it whatever term it likes. But the govt did not bailout LTCM. Private banks bought debt and obligations at pennies on the dollar.
“In return, the participating banks got a 90% share in the fund and a promise that a supervisory board would be established. LTCM’s partners received a 10% stake, still worth about $400 million, but this money was completely consumed by their debts. The partners once had $1.9 billion of their own money invested in LTCM, all of which was wiped out.[30]”
When the partners still have 10% and private banks get 90% that’s not a bailout, that’s a bustout.
Corner Stone
@askew:
Who? And where?
Cervantes
@Corner Stone:
True — but who thinks it was a government bail-out?
Corner Stone
@Cervantes: It may be a false point to be made on my part. But, IMO, when private banks buy 90% of your company it’s not a bailout. They own the assets, whatever they may be.
A bailout like the GM structure or Fannie/Freddie by the govt seem a little different.
How is it a bailout if the company no longer exists after the deal?
Corner Stone
@Cervantes:
And who knows what a bailout truly is, anyway?
(Not suggesting that you should be the one to answer this question, of course.)
(Thanks)
Cervantes
@askew:
An aside: if you have not read him already, I recommend to you the works of Elias Canetti.
dogwood
@askew:
You need to provide links or some evidence to back up you assertions. I understand that John Kerry crossed the goal line with these deals and he will get well-deserved credit for the accomplishments. But that doesn’t’ mean the people who moved the ball into scoring position aren’t part of the winning effort.
Corner Stone
@askew:
You mean a long time after HRC was the SoS from 2009 to Feb 2013?
Corner Stone
@dogwood:
She can’t. They don’t exist. I’m sure I will be accused of name calling, again.
Oh, woe is me! Boo-hoo!
Cervantes
@Corner Stone:
I presume you’re not defining bail-outs as being necessarily tax-payer-funded — or if you are, then I’m not sure why. After all, isn’t a bail-out simply a transaction in which certain parties are protected (to some degree) from the consequences of their own actions? Even individuals can bail each other out; and in this case LTCM’s partners were bailed out by their creditors.
Sure, I agree.
The company persisted for, and was liquidated, two years after the deal.
You’re wasting your time, not to mention your considerable talents.
Corner Stone
@Cervantes: How is that, exactly?
(Thanks)
Matt McIrvin
@Suzanne: The arrow was probably inspired by the negative space in the FedEx logo. (The fact that it’s a red arrow pointing to the right is going to give some people conniptions.)
Cervantes
@Matt McIrvin:
You’re not kidding:
Matt McIrvin
Wow, I had not even thought of the logo as a picture of 9/11, and this is the sort of anticipatory stupidology I usually pride myself on mastering.
Cervantes
@Matt McIrvin:
We know when we’ve lost.
(Another thing we don’t have in common with Republican lunatics.)