You all heard about the cop shooting a man in Oklahoma, thinking he was deploying his taser. It’s this guy:
Robert Bates, 73, is an insurance company executive who became a reserve deputy in 2008, the Tulsa World newspaper reported. He also served one year as a police officer in the 1960s.
Tulsa County Sheriff’s Maj. Shannon Clark said Bates was assigned to the Violent Crimes Task Force involved in arresting Harris but not to the arrest team. Instead, Clark said, Bates was supposed to be acting in a supporting role.
The insurance company executive served as chairman of Tulsa County Sheriff Stanley Glantz’s 2012 re-election effort and donated $2,500 to the sheriff’s campaign that year, the Tulsa World reported.
Bates also donated thousands of dollars worth of equipment to the sheriff’s office, according to the report. Clark told the newspaper that Bates had donated vehicles, guns and Tasers to the agency.
Many of the agency’s 130 reserve deputies are wealthy donors, Clark said.
“There are lots of wealthy people in the reserve program,” he told the Tulsa World. “Many of them make donations of items. That’s not unusual at all.”
Why in the hell is a 73 year old man who isn’t even a real cop on the Violent Crimes Task Force, you might ask?
Money. Because part of our glibertarian conservative paradise is not wanting to raise taxes, ever, for anything, so municipalities are strapped for cash because no politician has the nerve to ever raise taxes for anything. Even vital functions, or things that you would think would be vital, like the FUCKING VIOLENT CRIMES TASK FORCE.
So instead of raising taxes, the institute programs and policies to soak the poor and those who can’t fight back (like Ferguson), rely on civil forfeiture (like everywhere), and take donations from wealthy clowns so they can go play Dirty Harry. And, if they’re lucky, get to live out their biggest fantasies.
Oh, and there is no mandatory retirement age for the Utah Highway Patrol- I called and asked. Yet another reason we can’t find good jobs for younger people, the fact that people are living longer and not quitting their jobs. But this makes no damned sense whatsoever for police, especially in the fucking VIOLENT CRIMES TASK FORCE.
*** Update ***
Not sure why I confused Utah and Oklahoma. And there is no mandatory retirement according to the people at OLERS.
Amanda in the South Bay
Wrong state and police institution?
Gin & Tonic
Tulsa, Utah?
trollhattan
The same reason George Zimmerman decided joining neighborhood watch meant he could arm himself.
Shakezula
Once it is clear that perks include a chance to gun down black men, Tulsa will be able to charge people to serve as police officers.
But yeah, not Utah.
chromeagnomen
it was just in honor of cliven bundy day.
Tree With Water
Bates did say he was sorry.
gratuitous
It would be justice of a sort for Mr. Harris’ survivors to sue the police department in an amount equal to the various contributions Mr. Bates has made over the years. I have a suggestion for who should pay any judgment against the police, and it isn’t the taxpayers of the county.
catclub
@chromeagnomen: who is in nevada. Makes perfect sense.
elisabeth
I won’t pile on re: the state but will just say that my “favorite” part was the Harris saying he couldn’t breathe and a cop saying “fuck your breathe.” As the guy was dying.
Laertes
@gratuitous:
If I were on the jury in the wrongful death suit against the department, I’d be totaling up all the contributions netted by their criminally negligent “reserve deputy” program, from all donors, over its entire lifetime.
That program is now killing people, but the department does it because it’s a net money-earner. A jury has the power to change that.
JPL
John, Did you happen to call Oklahoma too?
and there is no mandatory retirement age for the Utah Highway Patrol- I called and asked.
currants
…because their pensions have disappeared because 2008 Obama, amirite?
Mandalay
A great OP, and kudos for taking such a simple but useful action. We can all learn from your example, and pick up the phone to learn more when something stinks.
Hopefully some enterprising reporter reads BJ, and will follow up on your effort.
Amir Khalid
For goodness’ sake, John Cole. It says Oklahoma in big bold letters, right there in the headline on the TPM story.
@Shakezula:
It does already. And someone has availed himself of that perk.
Betty Cracker
Last night, someone linked to a story in Tulsa Today about this incident. It said this insurance exec / reserve deputy actually was a cop for one year back in the 1960s. Now, it’s almost axiomatic that no one ever says anything intelligent in comments under a newspaper article posting, but someone did: A commenter said a reporter should look into WHY this dude was only a cop for one year.
Couldn't Stand the Weather
I am so tired of this shit. So damn tired of it.
This shoot first ask questions later bullshit is so far past ridiculous. The decedent’s family needs to sue the whole state (Nevada, Oklahoma, both, whatever) into receivership over this. Make the state government all but insolvent, like Argentina or Greece.
Second, I don’t care if the cops want to hire a 70 year old who just won a triathlon. I don’t want someone who’s collecting Social Security on a police task force. I am in my forties, and I am way too out of shape for police work.
JPL
@Amir Khalid: I’ve seen confusing posts before but this one might be at the top.
Billiam William
This reminds me of right wing father in law who thinks retired executives and other “successful” people should be brought in to teach in the schools. He thinks all you need to do to make these damn kids behave better is to have someone who is smart and has made a lot of money talk to them and then they will all magically become Wally Cleaver. It can never be the case that tax money used for the common good should pay for appropriate experts to do a particular job. All of these things are excuses for people with money not to pay for the things they ought to pay for – but I think they really believe this crap. Comes from not living in the real world. And from being stupid selfish dicks. etc.
p.a.
No charges to be filed: he thought he had a taser. Maybe civilians should try this: I know I hit him with a baseball bat, but I was aiming for his elbow to scare him. I didn’t mean to hit him in the head and kill him. You can’t charge me.
chromeagnomen
@p.a.: or: i thought i had a wiffle ball bat in my hands. sorry, my bad.
p.a.
Edit fcn no-workee. I meant to add: the Hobby Lobby defense; my sincerely held belief was that I held a taser, therefore even though my belief was incorrect, I am absolved from wrongdoing.
Mandalay
@Betty Cracker:
That is generally the case, but there was another comment in the Tulsa World that rang uncomfortably true:
Doug r
So there were no openings for costumed vigilante?
ET
I thought they were joking when the said he was in his 70’s. I hope they rethink their police reserves system. No 73 year old should be on the police reserves.
WaterGirl
@Tree With Water: Yeah, sorry that he embarrassed himself in front of his cop friends. Or maybe sorry that he had embarrassed them. Sociopaths, all of them.
Tokyokie
I wonder whether T. Boone Pickens, a huge contributor to his alma mater, Oklahoma State University, is allowed, in appreciation of his largesse, to perform medical procedures at the hospital affiliated with OSU’s College of Osteopathic Medicine in Tulsa?
Amir Khalid
@ET:
If TCSO doesn’t put rich old men in its reserves, who is going to buy it those nice toys?
Rheinhard
Oh, it gets even better! So many delicious additional angles to explore, courtesy of TPM:
Fun Fact the First: The rich donor aka “Police Cosplayer” is actually the real victim here. No, seriously:
Fun Fact the Second: The Sherrif said of the rich “Police Cosplayer”:
Yes, Indeed, it’s just like errors that might happen in an operating room… if some rich guy who made a big donation to the hospital to buy the right to cosplay as a heart surgeon accidentally dropped a scalpel through one of your major arteries.
Fridaynext
@ET:
Or if he is, maybe back at the station doing paperwork and answering phones so the real, “professional” police can do the difficult stuff that takes a healthy cardiovascular system, some muscle tone, and training.
WaterGirl
“I thought it was a taser!” Because, you know, a taser is no big deal, right? Just whip out that taser and shoot someone with it. Probably no more dangerous than a water pistol, only a lot more fun. You get to see the guy screaming because he’s in pain, and everything.
It’s like these cops don’t see the people they are murdering as human, even. That’s how it is with rape, you see the woman as an object that you can control, so you feel powerful. This may sound crazy, but I wonder how many of these cops are rapists, too.
These fuckers need to be held accountable. And their superior officers need to be held accountable.
boatboy_srq
And yet, if asked for the tiniest additional millage to allow the sheriffs to purchase these same items with tax revenue, what are the odds that Bates would have shrieked “TYRANNY!!!11!1!”? Thousands of dollars worth of equipment, including vehicles, guns and Tasers. And no doubt he gets some kind of tax break for that – but how the BLEEP is this not taxation in another form? This numbskull is throwing thousands of dollars – probably high tens of thousands of dollars at least if “vehicles” are involved – at a public entity which should be able to exist and provide for its own needs with public revenue, and for which some of his tax dollars are already allocated; yet suggest for a moment that his taxes go up a hair to let the sheriffs make their own purchasing decisions (likely improving the agency’s buying power in the process, so the actual costs would likely go down) and WHAM. I do NOT get this.
@Tree With Water: I haven’t seen the footage, but from what I’m reading/hearing, Bates apologized to the other LEOs for effing up their collar, and not to the guy he shot. Anyone with better information please correct me.
Violet
@Rheinhard: Sounds like the PR conslutant for that police department is doing well. Deflect and question surgeons in an operating room! That’s the way to get the heat off your department!
Hal
http://cornellajoan.tumblr.com/post/115288754993/http-joancornella-bigcartel-com
SuperHrefna
This is just nuts. Some things are too important to be handed out as donors’ prizes and the right to enforce the law is one of them. I wish I thought this case ( whichever state it happened in :-) would lead to change but I bet it won’t.
And yay! I am through my surgery and feeling surprisingly human, if headachy and bodyachy. Of course, my surgeon was actually trained and licensed and everything…
Calouste
@Mandalay:
Slight misspelling in the last but one word there.
Violet
He’s been charged with manslaughter.
jonas
This was the defense proffered by the BART cop a few years ago who shot Oscar Grant — “thought my gun was my taser.” A jury bought it and convicted the cop of involuntary manslaughter rather than murder. Weren’t they supposed to make Tasers bright yellow or something in the wake of that so it wouldn’t happen again?
chopper
@Rheinhard:
i dunno, Glantz, how much do you pay per month in malpractice insurance?
WaterGirl
@SuperHrefna: Thought of you about a dozen times last night and today, always sending good thoughts your way, and a few prayers, wondering how you were doing. Glad you made it through! Now you are waiting for results?
trollhattan
@Tokyokie:
If he believes that Jeebuz imbued him with surgical powers (ala 30 A.D.) then by all means, start cuttin’, Pickens.
SuperHrefna
@WaterGirl: it doesn’t sound crazy to me, I wonder the same. Rape is about power and these monsters are on one big power trip.
chopper
@jonas:
they are typically bright yellow and on the holster is on the other side (non-dominant hand). typically IIRC the handle is also shaped a bit differently.
trollhattan
Since cops seem to be in the spotlight
dailyhourly, can y’all stand one more?Tickle, tickle.
Mike in NC
Once the new Attorney General takes office, she needs to put a stop to crap like this nationwide. This guy wasn’t fit to work as a mall cop.
JPL
@SuperHrefna: Glad that you are finished with that. Yeay, indeed
gvg
It would seem to me that the officials that allowed him out there should also face charges and I don’t know about not making the tax payers pay off the lawsuit costs. They elected at least 1 major fool.
The sheriff actually said how many errors happen in an operating room?! Wow. Luckily for us he doesn’t know what he is talking about. And Malpractice insurance is no joke expensive, hard to get and good at getting hospital admin attention.
Heh maybe we need to require police departments to carry malpractice insurance….
Jack the Second
@boatboy_srq: You miss the important part: his voluntary donations to the police department aren’t dollars going to help THOSE PEOPLE. The essential difference between philanthropy (or “philanthropy”) and taxation is that the donor gets to be a little king, passing out his dollars to those who please him and denying them to those who displease him.
JPL
A Tulsa, Oklahoma reserve sheriff’s deputy was charged with second-degree manslaughter Monday for the shooting death of an unarmed black man, the Tulsa County district attorney said. according to NBC
at least it’s something
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Mandalay:
I’m noticing a very disturbing trend with a lot of these shootings recently – there seems to be some sort of unspoken urge to get themselves a “trophy nigger”. I have a horrible feeling that at least some of these guys would have no qualms about mounting the head on their wall, like a trophy elk.
Talking about you, Zimmerman, you piece of shit. And possibly Grandpa here. It’s really not possible to mistake a Taser for a handgun and the folks at Taser have taken some extraordinary steps to insure that doesn’t happen.
SuperHrefna
@WaterGirl: Yes, but I’m feeling hopeful because the surgeon says the lump they took out didn’t look cancerous, just much larger than any fibroadenoma has a right to be. And at my age she didn’t think I’d be likely to grow another one that big, so I’m feeling pretty sanguine while waiting for the path report!
JPL
@SuperHrefna: That is good news. I’ll keep you in my thoughts until you get the final report.
germy shoemangler
I posted this earlier, in the wrong thread:
Decided to watch my local news last night. After they did weather, some local robberies and fires, etc., they moved on to national news. They showed a clip of the guy who ran from the cops and was shot by the 73 year old who thought he was using his stun gun.
In the story, they said the cop can be heard apologizing to the runner, and then ended the story there. They then moved on to a black rapper who was jailed, and then on to footage of some black women who beat a homeless guy after they learned he’d hit one of their children. (I guess this was for balance, and to reinforce that these are bad people, not deserving of pity if one of them accidentally gets tased/shot.
There was NO MENTION of “f**k your breath” on the local news. Just a remorseful cop apologizing for mixing up his taser with his gun.
After the local news, I saw the national news. They showed the same footage, said the cop can be heard apologizing (I told my wife “he’s apologizing to the other cops, not the guy he shot) and this time the reporter admitted there’d been some profanity from the cops, (without going into detail about what was said and to who)
So the average person who gets his news from broadcast tv NEVER GETS THE FULL STORY. It’s impossible.
What struck me was the selective editing on the local news. They only gave 1/4 of the story.
Deliberately.
RSA
@Mandalay:
For what it’s worth, Oklahoma used to have a mandatory retirement age for the highway patrol but eliminated it in 2010.
That looks weird and is hard to read, but that’s how it appears in the official record, too, with strikethroughs.
SuperHrefna
@JPL: Thank you! Right now I’m curled up with my cats ( blue- grey Maine Coon Tobermory, and black and white feline genius Luna) feeling so relieved. And trying to explain to the feline horde than not every snack that comes out of a plastic pouch is a cat treat. I have some Cajun cashews that are confusing them…
Kazanir
I confess that my great home state of Utah has more than its fair share of problems, but holy shit John.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@WaterGirl: Here in San Diego we’ve had three, three that were so bad that the DA’s office had to take the unheard of step (literally – never done it before) of charging one of them with rape. And then dragging the case out – four years and counting and still no court date – while the city pays for private investigators to follow his eight victims around, 24/7. I wonder why they do that?
The worst one was the shitbag CHP officer who went for the double down and killed a girl while raping her. Couldn’t get the city to prosecute that one even though they had his murdering ass dead to rights. Fortunately, because he was a state employee, the state prosecuted his foul ass and he’s sitting in Soledad today, probably for the rest of his rotten shitty life.
I hate this fucking town and can’t wait to leave. Grew up here and it’s always been like this. Wife’s got to finish out her work until retirement and then we are out the fucking door, never to return.
catclub
@RSA: Of course, since the guy only has one year of service, mandatory retirement would not apply. (Age 60 AND 20 years of service, triggers mandatory retirement.)
I think he was also described as Reserve anyway. Not regular.
JPL
@germy shoemangler: My local news just showed the entire video including the f..k your breath. They also mentioned that he has now been charged with manslaughter
Roger Moore
@boatboy_srq:
This isn’t taxation for two reasons:
1) It’s voluntary. If he doesn’t want to give stuff to the police, he doesn’t have to. It’s amazing how much of a difference that makes.
2) Quid pro quo. Giving stuff to the police gets him the chance to play cop in a way that just paying his taxes wouldn’t.
It’s the libertarian idea. We get something vaguely resembling government, but avoid the messy bit about taxes. Even better, the government we get is incompetent and indebted to the rich people who give it money. What more could a libertarian ask for?
Heliopause
Oklahoma, and he’s just been charged with manslaughter. Frankly, I don’t think he deserves it. I know nobody follows my comments, but I’ll restate for the umpteenth time: our police problem in this country is never going to get better until we start charging the bureaucrats who make the idiotic decisions to hire incompetents and sociopaths as police. As far as I’m concerned, whoever decided it was a good idea to let wealthy donors play police dressup with live weapons is the one who committed manslaughter here. Make a very public example of that person. Standards might go up.
Mandalay
@Violet:
Perhaps because it wasn’t just the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office investigating. There are unsourced claims state that the FBI took a look as well.
germy shoemangler
@JPL: You have better local news than I do.
Roger Moore
@chopper:
Maybe they should put the taser on the dominant side and the gun on the non-dominant, so people in a panic will default reach for the
non-lethal[correction] less-lethal weapon.satby
@SuperHrefna: That’s good to hear! Healing thoughts heading your way!
rikyrah
Kirk Says People Drive Faster Thru Black Neighborhoods
April 13, 2015
Sen. Mark Kirk (R-IK) told the Peoria Journal Star that his constituents try to avoid African-American neighborhoods.
Said Kirk: “I want to make sure we have elected people constantly looking at helping the African-American community. With this state and all of its resources, we could sponsor a whole new class of potential innovators like George Washington Carver and eventually have a class of African-American billionaires. That would really adjust income differentials and make the diversity and outcome of the state much better so that the black community is not the one we drive faster through.”
http://politicalwire.com/2015/04/13/kirk-says-people-drive-faster-thru-black-neighborhoods/
rikyrah
YES….you don’t have to be a cop to legally shoot and kill people without impunity.
yeah, he’s been charged…uh huh
ok.
Amir Khalid
@Heliopause:
Of course Richard Bates deserves to be charged. He’s not some toddler who got hold of a deputy’s uniform and gun. He’s a grown man, who was playing cops and robbers for realz — and wound up killing a man.
AxelFoley
I don’t know if anyone has already corrected you, Cole, but Tulsa’s in Oklahoma.
Roger Moore
@Heliopause:
I don’t see why we can’t go after both the bozo cosplayer who shot the guy and the corrupt bozo who thought giving him a badge and gun was a good idea.
SWMBO
@SuperHrefna: You didn’t get a Rand Paul self certifying doctor! And the doctor didn’t allow a candy striper in to shoot you! /snark
@SuperHrefna: The doc got it all and it looks non cancerous! Woot! Woot!
I love happy endings.
Anniecat45
@jonas:
They are bright yellow. The hand grip also feels different from that of a gun. Also the BART police carry their Tasers on the other side of the body from their guns and the holster that secures them is different. (I work at the appeals court that affirmed Mehserle’s conviction and found all this out at the oral argument.)
AxelFoley
@Heliopause: Man, fuck that noise. That old fucker absolutely deserves the manslaughter charge.
Mandalay
@Roger Moore:
The “corrupt bozo” probably did nothing illegal. As with other organizations with self-serving rules, such as Congress, corporations and the stock market, the scandal isn’t what’s done illegally, but what is done legally.
boatboy_srq
@Jack the Second: @Roger Moore: I get that this is his choice, for whatever reasons he may choose. But Gummint is still getting way more of his money than he would pay in taxes for the same things. And if not helping Those People is the impediment, he seems to have been well placed to campaign (rather effectively, apparently, before the weekend) for people who would put those dollars where he wants them. He also hasn’t stopped to think that, by sending all that largesse the sheriff’s way, he’s enabled that department to reapportion budget that would otherwise have gone to those things and will now go elsewhere: so he’s not paying for the gummint he wants so much as enabling gummint to do things with his tax dollars that he’s donating all that stuff to prevent them doing. And he’s doing it in the least cost-effective way possible. As for the quid pro quo: there are plenty of civilian auxiliary functions that will give similar thrills: I’ve been part of a couple of those, equipped with lights, vehicle signage and radios and regularly visited by the sheriff for training, briefings and updates. If he gets his jollies riding along, there are more than a few ways to do that without packing heat and shooting suspects.
MattF
@Heliopause: I agree that the people in charge are the problem. And that includes the politicians, who appoint the bureaucrats. In a working political system, if bureaucrats make mistakes, they can be overruled by the political powers. But if the powers-that-be want the police to be brutal and poorly trained, then that’s what they will be.
WaterGirl
@SuperHrefna: That’s super great news. Very happy to hear it.
boatboy_srq
@Roger Moore:
THIS I get – though I need ibuprofen (at least) after reading it. One more reason I hate HOAs with a passion.
WaterGirl
@CONGRATULATIONS!: I am standing here shaking my head as I read this, wondering how it is that our country got so impossibly fucked up.
At least the one guy is in jail.
WaterGirl
@JPL: What I want to know is when the guy got charged with manslaughter. I’m guessing that it’s about 45 minutes ago when the story started to get national attention.
*not a literal 45 minutes ago
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: There are so many things wrong with that statement, it’s hard to pick just one. But since he ends with the “we don’t want to drive through your neighborhoods” I can see how one might choose that one.
WaterGirl
@Roger Moore:
YES, ABSOLUTELY
edit: when you have the last 4 comments on a thread, it’s time to step away from the keyboard!
Calouste
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Grandpa now-charged-with-manslaughter probably said “I’m sorry” that he shot the man because someone else had dibs on the next “trophy”.
pseudonymous in nc
Taser: the 21st century whip.
Mandalay
@WaterGirl:
My guess is that it’s because the FBI did a parallel investigation.
Surely the time has come to end the situation where a police department investigates itself when one of their officers kills someone in the line of duty. For example, in this case, any police department in Oklaholma except Tulsa should have done the investigation.
My own preference would be that the FBI automatically investigate every cop killing, but the police are far too trigger happy for that to be feasible.
scav
@WaterGirl: Some of us are just exhausted from the sheer drudgery and self-harm of keeping up with the idiocy. Because, for all this coming out at the rate it has, means this is a long standing situation that the press just suddenly decided to pay attention to. It’s not like every 27th cop in the nation suddenly took a stupid and heartless pill and decided that letting suspects bleed out on streets was a part of the job description, saved on court cases and was a perq of the shiny badge (even pretend ones). That and the blether that comes out of their official mouthpieces. Stanley Glantz and his “hospital oopsie analogy no harm no foul, what you all upset about?” is right up there in the Hall of Fame they’ve got going.
Along with the body cameras, can someone add a button to call 911 medics auto-wired to their triggers for GSD’s sake? (put AMZN on the case.) The Politzi never seem to bother with the physical well-being of whoever just got dropped.
catclub
wow, swift justice 8 years after the event:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/us/ex-blackwater-guards-sentenced-to-prison-in-2007-killings-of-iraqi-civilians.html
@WaterGirl:
I see these as positive. Video of the events is making a difference, and also revealing how many there always were.
Aleta
This ‘volunteer reserve deputy’ racket seems like a nice hookup for some actively paranoid gun fantasists. Around here an armed division of tea party believers has formed a firing range with weapons training to service local LO.
In the Washington Post article JG linked to yesterday, it mentions former Sheriff’s Deputy Tim Robertson. (Acquitted of murder charges after he apprehended a man accused of stealing a gas grill and some trailers but shot him first in the back as he ran and then ‘execution-style’ at close range.)
Robertson then became a weapons instructor for the force and is now a “reserve deputy.”
boatboy_srq
@WaterGirl: Seconded. Though for me what stood out is that, rather than helping the entire community, he’s all for enabling a handful of Those People get rich, which to him is both the better solution (e.g. enabling some handful to get really wealthy is more laudable than helping everyone become better off) and the way to stop Those People being violent criminals (because everyone knows that one rich person per neighborhood makes all The Poors behave better [/snark]). I’ve heard not dissimilar justifications for drug gangs who manage their own neighborhoods.
Amir Khalid
@catclub:
It seems that not everyone agrees justice was done.
Bubblegum Tate
Yeah, see, here’s what’s funny about that: I see wingnuts blaming this dynamic on liberals. Seriously. For example, I know of one who blamed Walter Scott’s death on two things: premarital sex (seriously), and because liberalism (not conservatism! Not even in conservative-run cities like Charleston and Tulsa!) has caused reduced tax revenues. To wit:
He actually sort of sees the problem…but then attributes it to exactly the wrong people. Clearly, what Tulsa and Charleston really need is a round of tax cuts and some heavy-duty slut shaming.
trollhattan
@catclub:
Am sure like me, you were shocked (SHOCKED!) to find the Bush Justice Dept watered down the charges against Blackwater sought by the FBI. Who am I kidding? Nothing that leaks out about Bush administration’s acting like a crime syndicate surprises me.
metricpenny
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
I’m feeling you on the “trophy nigger” aspect. In my head it’s the “GeeZ!” badge. For George “that piece of shit” Zimmerman.
‘Gosh, gee-willy, WOW! Did I really kill that scary, criminally inclined, black man? GeeZ!’ ::wink::
FlipYrWhig
@Rheinhard:
And when that happens, everyone just says, “whatchagonnado” and shrugs, and no one is ever put through the justice system for their errors, right?
FlipYrWhig
@Aleta: Wasn’t Dwight Schrute a volunteer police deputy in Scranton?
trollhattan
@FlipYrWhig:
Only thing remaining for them to tell us is how the poor gun feels, and is it receiving counseling?
FlipYrWhig
@trollhattan: “Because the gun has been confiscated, it terribly misses its owner’s loving touch.”
Amir Khalid
@scav:
Maybe TCSO should consider applying the Barney Fife rule for reserve deputies on ride-alongs. One bullet each, to be kept in a shirt pocket and loaded only at need.
Aleta
@Betty Cracker: The Tulsa World story is of course packed with slant and bias for “balance’…one of the lies that especially stood out suggested Bates acted because Mr. Harris was fighting with another officer. From the video, not true.
scav
@Amir Khalid: I’m thinking a little cork attached with a thread or maybe a flag that goes “Bang!” might be more appropriate for the sweet little footed-pajama acting-out selves. Can’t they play video games or paintball like so many others?
Aleta
@trollhattan: that is pretty darn funny
Roger Moore
@boatboy_srq:
It isn’t mostly about money; it’s about control. Rich people don’t like taxes because they want to keep their money, sure, but the real libertarian types aren’t lying about the freedom aspect of it. They really see taxes as the government deciding how to spend their money, and they hate that. They’re perfectly happy to waste that money, or even spend it on stuff the government would do anyway, just as long as nobody is telling them they have to spend their money that way. It’s stupid, but that’s the way it is.
D58826
This isn’t the first cop or wanna-be-cop to claim he thought he was grabbing his taser. Now giving people the benefit or the doubt that in the heat of the moment maybe that could happen. My question is why not make the handle of the taser have a different feel to it so that you would know instantly that you had to wrong weapon. Since the taser is electrical maybe a beeping sound or a vibration. Just something to give a warning w/o having to actually look. Even thought that might be a good idea too since it seems like you bring the weapon up to eye level anyway when aiming
WaterGirl
@D58826: From comment #72 above:
Roger Moore
@Mandalay:
Killing, hell! Somebody independent should be investigating every time an officer uses a weapon- gun, taser, pepper spray, or what have you- outside of training. They should also keep the records in a nice central location so we know how often it’s happening and look for patterns of excessive force. When we’re done with that, our police will be able to give up their cars and fly around on pigs and rainbow farting pegasi instead.
D58826
@WaterGirl: ah thank you. should have read the entire thread
SuperHrefna
@SWMBO: It’s because I was born in decadent, socia$$$list Britain. I may have spent half my life here, but I’ll never be a real ‘Murcan, who doesn’t need health insurance, just a knife and a bottle of Jack so I can pull myself up by my own surgical bootstraps, cutting out that mass my own damn self while the candy stripers lay down covering fire to keep away the terrists.
Sigh. Please let the Dems win this election! I’ve been spoiled by having a sane President and I just can’t go back to that shit, I just can’t.
SuperHrefna
@satby: And luscious soap, too! I got my bar of goaty oaty goodness today, perfect timing! So looking forward to trying it out.
Baud
It seems that Scalia’s encomium on the professionalism of the modern police force will need to be extended to amateur police forces.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Roger Moore:
Wow! That sounds cool. I’m sure the cops around here might even give up their choppers. Are the pigs and rainbow farting pegasi’s quiet?
Mike G
@Aleta:
Here in southern Cal there was a scandal a few years ago where the LA country sheriff was giving out badges to his big campaign contributors and they were using them to get out of speeding and parking tickets, gain backdoor entrance to concerts and sporting events, etc. as if they were undercover detectives or somesuch.
Another step down toward the corrupt third world. Murkan Exceptionalism, f*ck yeah!
bemused
@SuperHrefna:
Killer comment. Kudos.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I’m sure that “Justice Original Intent” will be on the case in no time.
Roger Moore
@FlipYrWhig:
Is that what ammosexuals are calling it these days?
Kyle
@Rheinhard:
I’ve never heard of a surgeon saying “Fuck your breath” as a patient draws his last breaths after a failed operation.
Violet
@SuperHrefna: Glad the surgery went well and the initial prognosis is good! Rest up!
Valdivia
the Village is about to swoon hard for Rubio. It’s going to be unbearable.
Roger Moore
@scav:
If they aren’t allowed to play with real guns and real
victimscriminals, they aren’t going to keep giving away that sweet, sweet cash.Roger Moore
@BillinGlendaleCA:
They’re quieter than copters, but their, errm, exhaust is potentially unpleasant to innocent bystanders below.
Heliopause
@Roger Moore:
I had assumed he was being charged with a pretty serious crime, but after reading this it looks like 2nd degree manslaughter is not such a huge deal in Oklahoma compared with some other jurisdictions. So yeah, I would now say that the charge is pretty appropriate for this guy. Still think the bureaucrat needs to be punished, and no, the county or whomever paying a civil fine is not adequate.
Roger Moore
@Valdivia:
It would be much more bearable if they lost the power of speech during their swoons. Also too, their trips to their fainting couches.
germy shoemangler
@Valdivia: Hillary Clinton, under pressure from the left wing of her Democratic Party to aggressively campaign against income inequality, voiced concern about the hefty paychecks of some corporate executives in an email to supporters.
Striking a populist note, Clinton, who announced on Sunday she was running for president in 2016, said American families were still facing financial hardship at a time “when the average CEO makes about 300 times what the average worker makes.”
In a tightly scripted campaign launch in which there were few surprises, the comments were unexpected, at least by progressives, who saw them as an early sign she may shift away from the centrist economic policies pursued by her husband, former President Bill Clinton.
germy shoemangler
@Kyle: Or mistaking a scalpel for a stethoscope.
WaterGirl
OT, but this was on The Obama Diary today:
Valdivia
@Roger Moore:
I was just told by Chuck Todd how multicultural the GOP is because Jeb! and Rubio can speak two languages while POTUS and Hillary can’t. This is the level of the tire swing they are erecting to make an atavist like Rubio the moderate tomorrow of the GOP. ugh.
@germy shoemangler:
glad to see her voicing support for these policies.
germy shoemangler
@Valdivia: Jeb and Rubio can be wrong in two languages.
kc
Think of it as a legalized version of the Most Dangerous Game.
Elizabelle
Tulsa was lead story on ABC News tonight. Fairly accurate package; mentioned all 50 states use reserve officers. Did not cover what happened once Harris was shot, beside the “sorry” comment. We did get some great footage of a black man running down the street.
Then overview about Hillary announcement, pointing out her video highlighted gay people, Spanish business owners, and a woman in Iowa. And “she’s meeting in Iowa Tuesday with the [regular folks/small business people] she’s always talking about.”
Then: into the Rubio swoon, with George Steph… “sagely” recapping: Rubio’s the one candidate who can say he’s from a middle class — maybe he said working class — background. And generational change!
Facepalm, because does it hurt less to have a younger person stealing your future and making idiotic appointments to the Supreme Court?
Click goes the TV. Off for a walk. It’s beautiful out.
Valdivia
@germy shoemangler:
exactly and their policies are wrong no matter what language they are in!
Elizabelle
@Valdivia: Yeah. It’s time to check out on the political reporting.
Jim Rutenberg of the NYTimes did a footlick of Rand Paul this weekend. As with David Brooks columns, the honesty and accuracy was in the reader comments.
germy shoemangler
This just in:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/04/why-hillary-clinton-is-probably-going-to-win.html
The argument for Clinton in 2016 is that she is the candidate of the only major American political party not run by lunatics. There is only one choice for voters who want a president who accepts climate science and rejects voodoo economics, and whose domestic platform would not engineer the largest upward redistribution of resources in American history. Even if the relatively sober Jeb Bush wins the nomination, he will have to accommodate himself to his party’s barking-mad consensus. She is non-crazy America’s choice by default. And it is not necessarily an exciting choice, but it is an easy one, and a proposition behind which she will probably command a majority.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
You sure that was on the Internet? It seems too . . . reasonable.
Elizabelle
@germy shoemangler: That’s just it. Sanity and Supreme Court appointments.
Valdivia
@WaterGirl:
thanks for that link, good summary and resonates for me.
@Elizabelle:
I am so glad I didn’t see that. I just get a little taste of it on twitter and it’s enough. They are really dying to have someone they can promote. It’s going to be a little like the giddy days after Palin was introduced until she tanked, but they’re going to do it with every candidate until the election. sigh.
ETA: and now they are comparing him to Kennedy! gagging.
germy shoemangler
I am intensely curious what Obama will choose to do after his presidency. And I can’t wait to hear Michelle speak freely.
Violet
@Roger Moore:
Speaking of ammosexuals, the NRA convention was this weekend.
Yes, you wouldn’t want to have any emotion when you kill those people with the big gun you’re carrying around in the cart.
Apparently all the GOP clowns spoke. Jeb! didn’t get good reviews from the crowd.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Bad example. The answer is actually “not too fucking many”, in large part because a malpractice award is usually a lot more money than you get if some cop shoots your loved one for the hell of it, and juries have no compunction about handing those malpractice awards out when justified.
Also, when said awards are paid out, hospitals fire people and change procedures so it doesn’t happen again. Rarely, but sometimes, cops do get fired, like Officer Backshooter from SC last week. But the departments NEVER change their procedures no matter how many people die until things get so bad the Feds have to come in (see: LAPD).
PS: pretty sure LAPD needs to go back under consent decree, they’ve been backsliding a lot over the last couple of years.
Roger Moore
@WaterGirl:
This is a great point. I may not be as excited about Hillary as I was about Obama, but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to agree with me. And the Democratic Party is going to need a bunch of excited volunteers to give its nominee the kind of ground game that will win the election and give the nominee some coattails. If Hillary can get that kind of support, it’s good evidence that she’s the candidate we need.
bemused
@Valdivia:
Jennifer Rubin said Rubio is young! fresh! fun!
Republicans have no standards whatsoever.
D58826
There is an article on Salon about an 11 year old autistic boy in Va. who has been arrested twice by the same school cop for behavior issues. The charges included felony assault and resisting arrest. The judge in finding the boy guilty said the autism was irrelevant and it was time for him to ‘man-up’. In the mean time cops kill unarmed citizens with virtual impunity and the system bends over backwards for them.
I kind of hope the Iranians do develop a bomb and use it on us. Any country with the perverted values that sends an 11 year old autistic boy to jail deservers to be relegated to the ash heap of history.
Valdivia
@bemused:
they’re dying to have their own Obama and have decided Rubio will be it. I am now prepared to be told by all the media in DC that Rubio is not just the new Obama, but better, because he is a war monger.
trollhattan
@bemused:
“And shoulders you could land a 737…er…Piper Cub…uh…small drone on!”
germy shoemangler
Key and Peele:
“Closet Racist”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMts-H2N8pM
D58826
@Violet: One more example of a nation that has lost all sense of morality and human decency.
bemused
@Valdivia:
@trollhattan:
They can’t help themselves. They are wired to make rock stars out of cow pies. I remember some swooning over Donald Rumsfeld, FFS.
chopper
@Roger Moore:
Plus, make the tasers taze the dude pulling the trigger instead. that would help.
Violet
@D58826: It doesn’t surprise me that there are people out there like that. Mean and cruel people exist. The real issue is that they are celebrated and one political party goes to their annual convention to suck up to them. A sane society should shun those kinds of people or get them the help they need.
WaterGirl
@D58826:
Holy fucking shit.
Aleta
@Roger Moore: I used to think the govt-hating libertarians who also work for the government (esp the defense contractors who’ve profited greatly off of other peolpe’s taxes) were mind-boggling hypocrites. Now I believe it’s not at all about lower taxes for all. It’s about the right to plunder their own country. Plundering other countries can get complicated anymore.
WaterGirl
I think BJ should put together a book of shame. We could separate it by sections (open season on black men, reproductive rights, foreign policy, etc).
We could include quotes like this one:
We could include the name of the person who said it, their political party, city and state they live in, what they do for a living, the names of their spouses and children, if they have them.
edit: or it could be a video, and maybe we don’t have to list the names of their spouses and children.
Maybe we could title it: this is who you’re voting for if you vote republican.
D58826
@Violet: I know that hey have always existed but with social media and the Internet they have become much more visible and they have an easier time hooking up with similar cretins living in other caves.
scav
NRA presumably recognizes it’s got a good thing going with the whole police violence thing making the press — all sorts of business opportunities in a domestic arms race. Between the wanna-be cops buying stuff to donate as contributions in kind prior to the E-ticket ride in the cop cars (and to beef up armaments for the poor necessarily trustworthy, heroic and out-gunned police), to the purchases by people now frightened by the cops to the outright purchases by the police now with extra reason to be frightened of the populace . . .
TriassicSands
Oklahoma. What do you expect?
chopper
@TriassicSands:
LOL, dummy, it’s Utah.
trollhattan
When this asshat pleas no-contest to man3 and gets probation, he should be forced to become a tornado chaser–the guy on top of the armored car with an iphone camera in each hand. Do something useful once in your life, Bates.
Germy Shoemangler
@trollhattan: I was thinking more of a career in minesweeping.
Juju
@WaterGirl: I watched the video today, and the man who was shot by accident was on his stomach, and appeared to be complying. At that point, using a taser seemed to be punitive and unnecessary. There was no reason to use any weapon on the man.
Germy Shoemangler
Here’s a photo to strike FEAR in the hearts of the GOP:
http://jcsande.blogspot.com/2015/04/power.html
MomSense
How are we going to stop this? It’s happening practically every day.
Baud
@Germy Shoemangler:
Hell, I find that scary.
OT: Here is some good news.
Mike J
@Germy Shoemangler: Have you seen the 404 page on her web site?
schrodinger's cat
@Germy Shoemangler: Jesus Bill and hippy chick Hillary!
schrodinger's cat
@trollhattan: Is Bates’ mother still alive?
Germy Shoemangler
@schrodinger’s cat: All they need is Clarence Williams III and it’d be the Mod Squad! Someone should photoshop young Barry Obama with his college afro into that pic.
WaterGirl
@Juju: They’re not just sociopaths, they are pathological liars.
I’m with MomSense. How do we stop this? As they say, sunshine is the best disinfectant, but it’s going to take a lot more than videos of cops committing murder to really turn this around.
WaterGirl
Paging a front-pager…. it’s been 5 hours since we’ve had a new thread. Don’t you love us anymore?
SiubhanDuinne
Apologies if SouthernBeale has commented here and I’ve simply missed it — but I was blown away earlier today by her blog post on this situation. A great rant, and an incisive analysis of the underlying issues.
In case you haven’t yet read it: https://southernbeale.wordpress.com
Roger Moore
@bemused:
Interesting, because when there’s a Democrat who’s young and fresh, they complain about inexperience and not being properly vetted. It’s almost as if there’s a double standard.
SiubhanDuinne
@Roger Moore:
Shocked, shocked, etc.
Mary G
@germy shoemangler: I hope they write a tell-all, no-holds-barred, book. It would be hilarious and terribly sad at the same time.
J R in WV
@WaterGirl:
What makes you think a rich guy is in jail?
Manslaughter isn’t the kind of offence that puts you in jail without a bond set. Being a rich guy, he can afford the bond, however much it is.
An acquaintance was sound asleep one night recently, when he was awakened by noise at the door around 3 am. They live in an urban area where there are break-ins and crime. He got his pistol and went to see what was up, and a naked guy was trying to break in.
He shot some rounds, and the naked guy ran away, into the street. Then he ran back at the guy whose house it was (he lives with a wife, step kids and his own child) and my friend shot him. Jailed and accused of homicide!! Shooting a guy at 3 am who was trying to break into his home.
They finally let him go home, wearing a tacking bracelet, home confinement, no doubt paying a premium daily charge to avoid jail.
It looks like they intend to prosecute him for some level of murder… unless the deceased guy is found to be loaded on some kind of drugs. Shame he wasn’t contributing a shitload of funding to the sheriff…
Baud
Chris Hayes just did a flashback of Hillary’s cookie-gate in 1992. It comforts me that our politics have always been f’ed up.
Baud
I’m a little surprised Chris Hayes is still on the air. It seems as if he’s lost his focus.
Elizabelle
@bemused:
Brilliant! It’s what they do, too, until the next candidate is, uh, deposited.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: great and sad to see Miss Molly, though
The lady who said it was important to her that our First Lady be a lady. If she’s still with us I’m sure she’s excited about that nice young Mark Ruby fellow
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I didn’t recognize her, but that clip definitely stood out.
Roger Moore
@Mike J:
Somebody wants to let us know that Hillary can laugh at herself, which is something that her previous handlers tried assiduously to deny. It’s nice to see that she’s being allowed to show her human side for a change.
piratedan
@Roger Moore: pretty much one standard, the media is bought and paid for by the 1% and their lackeys, the GOP.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@J R in WV: In California – anywhere in California – if I had the same scenario occur to me and responded the same way, I’d be in jail for some form of homicide.
Here’s the rules in CA:
1. Bad actor must be in your home.
2. Bad actor must have means of doing you severe bodily injury and/or death.
3. You must have no avenue of retreat.
IF and only if you fulfill all three of these conditions can you shoot someone legally in this state. And you’ll go to jail regardless; the difference being that between 4-7 days and then being released with no charges (but facing a civil suit from the family of the guy you shot, because that is as inevitable as the sunrise) or being held over for trial, depending on the county could be anything from manslaughter to murder.
They never tell gun owners this shit. Maybe somebody should. I’m not feeling terribly sympathetic for your friend, because when you kill someone you should have a lot to answer for before someone decides to let you off the hook for it.
BillinGlendaleCA
@efgoldman:
Oxnard, CA.
NonyNony
@Mike J: I know this stuff is stagemanaged to Hell and back, but that’s a great picture with a funny joke. It looks like a legit family photo and not something from a campaign photo shoot, which is the kind of thing you normally don’t see once you get past City Council runs…
Mike J
@NonyNony:
As Roger Moore said above, it’s just nice to see that they aren’t afraid of her being human.
Zinsky
The privatization of law enforcement and the federal prison system is one of the great unreported scandals of our time. How do you think mandatory sentencing and “three strikes and you are out” laws got passed in the first place? A permanent and growing prison population is good business when you can stick the taxpayer with the bill and tack on a 10% profit margin.
chris9059
@Heliopause:
Culpability is not a finite quantity. The fact that the people who allowed this guy to have a badge and gun are also culpable does not make Bates any less guilty.
chris9059
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Let’s not forget Steven Seagal.
Cmm
This story is nuts. I never heard of reserve officers participating in undercover operations. There is another problem with “pay to play” reservists in that there is a strong incentive to ignore any misgivings about his competence in training and other evaluations since disqualifying or even suggesting remedial training or reassignment could mean he takes his toys and goes home. I know as a regular street officer I would resent like hell that this guy 1) got a plum position by probably just asking his buddy the sheriff and 2) was foisted on the officers to wrangle and babysit. Our department has reserve officers but they are all retired cops and their function is to do security details that would otherwise require taking patrol officers off the street, such as court security and manning the door in city buildings. I would also love to know why he was only an officer for 1 year…record retention from that long ago is spotty at best and more stringent record retention (and what is required to be recorded at all) is a relatively recent development, even barring the disasters that occur like fires and floods (our dept lost most of its pre microfilm records in a flood — the dept goes back to the early 20th century but the oldest files are from the mid 1960s. I also can’t imagine wanting to do this or any other job at 73. I can go on partial pension in the next couple of years and boy howdy am I ready to go!
brantl
I wonder how many of these bribing, Barney-Fyfe-wannabe’s they have working for them, especially in vital police functions?
cmm
That is definitely a question everyone should ask about their local departments: do you have a reserve? Is the reserve open only to experienced police officers or is anyone allowed to join? What functions does the reserve fulfill? Get them on the record about it. And remember that your local jurisdiction may have overlapping departments, especially in urban areas that are peppered with little municipalities. For example in our area we have a county sheriff’s department, a marshal’s department, a county police department, and our own city police department. While they all have different primary functions, the fact is that any of those departments could have units going to calls or incidents in the jurisdiction.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
My brain can’t comprehend this. What kind of idiot community would allow something like this?
celticdragonchick
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Fuck that.
If someone is breaking into your house, you should not have to retreat any further. Where the fuck are you going to go? The closet?
I miss a lot about California, but I don’t miss that kind of attitude. Your right to be secure in your own home outweighs any right of the person trying to take your rights away.
KithKanan
@celticdragonchick:
CA does have a castle doctrine — you don’t actually have a duty to retreat if the intruder is in your home. Basically everything else CONGRATULATIONS said seems to be true, though.