You know what I respect the most about Soonergrunt? Unlike all these internet tough guys and he-man macho warriors you run into all to often, he’s a real man, willing and able to admit when shit is not right and to reach out for help.
Imagine how much better the world would be if everyone in his situation would do what he is doing, to ask for and receive help when you need it. It’s a level of self-awareness that quite frankly eludes a lot more people than we are willing to admit. So here’s to Sooner, and if you need anything, man, you know where we are.
mainmata
He seems to do a lot of good work for a lot of people and, if I am not mistaken, he’s in the health field so he may have a much more heightened self-awareness of when to seek preventive care. In any event, I wish him the best.
Villago Delenda Est
What Cole said.
Sarge, you’re awesome. Hang in there, and best of luck.
JPL
John, Well said!
Howard Beale IV
I hope that his POSSSLQ locks up the firearms.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
Sooner is indeed actual real life tough guy. Tough means (among other things) being aware enough to get assistance, whether medical or infantry. Well said, Cole. All the best to Sooner.
Mr. Longform
I wish we could get more people (men especially, and especially middle aged/older men such as myself) to realize that 1) a mental health problem is a health problem, just like a broken bone or diabetes; 2) just because it is a mental health problem doesn’t mean you should be able to fix it yourself; 3) deciding you need help doesn’t mean you’ve failed – it means you are still able to make a logical decision about your health; and 4) getting help isn’t a sign of weakness, it’s smart, and usually the only good way to expect to get better.
Amir Khalid
@Howard Beale IV:
I’m not familiar with this abbreviation. Can you explain?
Betty Cracker
Exactly right.
JPL
@Mr. Longform: The last person that I remember being passionate about the issue was Tipper Gore.
Punchy
It’s the last 7 words in that sentence that fuck a lot of people. Aint so easy to get help for depression/PTSD if yer poor and/or underemployed.
CONGRATULATIONS!
“Real men” ask for help. That was a hard one for me to learn, I have a family whose ethos is “take care of your own problems.”
But sometimes you need to call in the Marines.
Booger
@Amir Khalid: person of opposite sex sharing living quarters.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Amir Khalid: Person of Opposite Sex Sharing Living Quarters. I believe in Soonergrunt’s case, that individual is legally – and socially – referred to as his wife (Mrs. Soonergrunt), although I could be mistaken based on a misremembered reference by SG himself.
Howard Beale IV
@Amir Khalid: It’s a older abbreviated acronym from back in the mid-late 1980s: “Person Of Opposite Sex Sharing Same Living Quarters.”
raven
He works in technology support at the VA.
PlanetPundit (used to be Sir Laffs-a-Lot)
Sooner is just wonderful; I hope it works out for him and his wonderful family.
TaMara (BHF)
Here-here.
SiubhanDuinne
John, I fully agree with your words about Soonergrunt. But maybe you should take a little bit of the credit for setting a great example last year when you decided to get help for your drinking. I’m not saying Sooner wouldn’t have sought help anyhow, but each time someone comes forward and acknowledges needing help in confronting their own demons* the easier it gets for everyone else.
Good luck to all who are currently struggling.
*And we all have our demons. Every one of us.
raven
@Mr. Longform: I sought help when I hit the wall some 21 years ago. I was lucky in that I was in school and was able to work with a counseling psychologist for a couple of years for nothing. While I did’t do a “recovery” program I am convinced that the experience helped me on the road to sobriety that has lasted all these years. Before I finally sought help the idea of it was totally foreign to me.
raven
@SiubhanDuinne: Sooner also quit smoking a few weeks back and that, in and of itself, is enough to make a grown man cry!
SiubhanDuinne
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Here’s Charles Osgood’s poem on the phenomenon:
@Howard Beale IV:
Fun fact: POSSLQ was the Census Bureau’s acronym.
Amir Khalid
Thanks, everyone. I do remember there is a Mrs. Sooner, as well as a Soonerdaughter who had health problems of her own, and a Soonerson. Also a cute little Bichon Frisé.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
That’s a tough one. I tried for years, decades even, before it took. Good for him.
Amir Khalid
@raven:
Fortunately for me, quitting the coffin nails is one agony I’ll never have to endure. I never took them up in the first place.
SuperHrefna
@raven: Wow, yes, that’s a tough one. I was crawling the walls the first three months I gave up (this month marks my 14th anniversary as a non smoker).
Sooner, you have my respect and admiration, it takes a really strong person to face up to your own demons and accept the help we all need to get through the dark times. You and John Cole are great role models for us all.
gene108
@Mr. Longform:
There’s a strain of thought throughout human society that Person A pulled him/her-self up by his/her boot straps, kept an optimistic attitude through terrible adversity, so why are you so sad, when you have it better than Person A.
It’s hard to shake.
There’s always a “I thought I had it bad, until I read about the Stage IV cancer patient, who got into a car crash and had her feet amputated and lost sight in one eye and now I appreciate what I have” running through people.
When you are depressed you have a problem.
The outside trappings of physical health, tolerable family situation, etc. is meaningless, but we have as a species a streak to try and derive meaning from these about where we belong among the 7 billion other people on the planet.
Admitting you have a problem, despite whatever benefits you have from other aspects of life is not something we are wired into as a global society. We are taught and/or pushed to “be grateful for what we have”, even though when you are dealing with mental health issues what you have is not enough, but it is not self-evident unlike physical health issues.
skyweaver
A lot like you, John.
Good luck, Soonergrunt. Here’s to figuring out the weeds you’re in. We’re rooting for you.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@raven: Hell, quitting smoking’s enough to make a grown dinosaur cry. And one the dirty little secrets about tobacco is that not only is nicotine a powerful antidepressant, but tobacco also has tranquilizing chemicals. Many psychiatrists suspect (some will admit) that lots of smokers were self medicating for mood disorders. I’ve also heard docs say (behind closed doors) that the worst thing that happened to the few remaining inpatient mental hospitals was banning easy smoking. None of which isn’t to suggest that cigarettes are not toxic.
raven
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I dunno, I quit when I was 19 and had so much herb I had to quit one or the other. Easy choice!~
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@gene108:
You’ve given me an opportunity to stand atop my soapbox and shout
. The brain is a very complex organ, and behavioral changes are part and parcel of brain disorders. As an example, there are often significant mood changes in people with MS, even those who had no obvious mood disorders before the expression of MS.
I’m not addressing you specifically, as other posts suggest you get it. But language is an important part of stigma. As I reminded 4th year psychiatry residents at our local med school earlier in the year. I’m fortunate to have the chance to reinforce the notion with those docs.
Ruckus
Sooner, whatever you need.
John, agreed.
A while ago I sought help for what turned out to be depression. I spent quite a while dealing with it and to this day have to be watchful that I don’t let it take hold again. I had employer provided insurance that was top of the heap at the time and mental health was at/below the bottom of their coverage. I ended up paying for all of my needs out of pocket. It was worth every penny, but what would I have done without a decent paying job?
MomSense
I applaud Sooner for getting help. Some of the veterans with PTSD with whom I work have a really hard time admitting and then asking for help.
The other frustrating thing is that you can feel well for a while, sometimes a long time, and then find yourself struggling again. It’s important to have a good support system in place.
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Quitting smoking, dealing with overeating, and all kinds of life changes can bring things to the surface. I think a lot of us have coping mechanisms that help with one problem but cause others.
Howard Beale IV
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Here’s one thing that always annoys me-folks say that tobacco usage is more addictive than alcohol and whole host of other drugs.
Yet you never see a smoker’s anonymous.
Ponder that.
trollhattan
@gene108:
I like to think of the helper, be it a mental health professional or whomever, as the cobbler, providing the boots. Hard to tug on those bootstraps when you’re barefoot.
My best to SG and the entire clan. Maybe you can at least have a boring tornado season.
askew
He’ll be in my thoughts and prayers. Hope he can find a solution to his problem. That has to be difficult to go through.
Cluttered Mind
@Mr. Longform: 100% in agreement! If you break your arm, you go to the doctor. No one will tell you “just suck it up, life is hard, deal with it”. You’ve got a broken arm, you clearly are not going to fix it with willpower and bootstraps. Thing is, a broken arm won’t kill you. Depression absolutely can kill you!
Depression is a real health issue and it can strike anyone. Alexander the Great suffered from depression, and I’m guessing no one is going to claim that he was a wimp.
Get well soon, Soonergrunt! We’ll miss you around here. Good on you for seeking help.
Ruckus
@MomSense:
What is horrible is when none of those coping mechanisms work any more or even exacerbate the the major problem you were trying to deal with/hide. And for most there is no place else to turn to so things can go down hill at rocket sled speeds, until you hit bottom in a big tangled pile.
Aleta
Also, “to ask for and receive help when you need it,” when your mind is on the ropes, is a level of strength and courage that is right at the top. I know this having retreated many times.
Gin & Tonic
@SiubhanDuinne: Thanks for that. I vaguely remembered it, and started to wonder if it was worth it trying to find the reference.
Another fun fact: William Safire wrote about that abbreviation in his “On Language” column, where he also took to task some other census questions. One I remember was a question about whether you have a dug or a drilled well (for water.) Safire, being a city person, I guess thought that question a bit foolish, and asked someone from the Census Bureau, who provided what I think was the perfect (and true) answer: “Those people who have a well know what kind of well they have.”
trollhattan
@Howard Beale IV:
Just as my kid enters her teen years, teen e-sig use has quadrupled (per today’s paper). Considering she missed meeting her grandfather (my dad) due to tobacco, I think it’s past time to push back on these gizmos, hard.
J R in WV
Yes, indeed, we do all have our personal demons. I’ve had good luck all my life, and still some nights at 2 or 3 or 4 am the mind won’t stop looking at the bad sides of things.
Thanks John for telling Soonergrunt that we will all be here for him, all the time. And we will be here for you, too.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
One theory about the apparent rise in adult ADHD diagnoses is that fewer adults smoke, and nicotine has the same effects as other stimulants on the ADHD brain (though Ritalin doesn’t cause cancer like nicotine does). So people who would have been able to self-medicate with tobacco need other treatments instead.
Another interesting thing I saw recently is that thy may start recommending that people who have been given a diagnosis of atypical depression should be screened for ADHD, because it’s looking as though it’s not really related to “true” clinical depression and is actually an effect of ADHD.
After looking at those two things in sequence, now I’m wondering if it might be worth it for SG to be screened for adult ADHD at some point, especially if the diagnosis that comes back is for atypical depression.
MomSense
@Ruckus:
I am nodding my head in agreement reading your comment.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Howard Beale IV:
It’s because of several things:
(1) Smoking is still socially acceptable, so people don’t want to hear that it’s a true addiction.
(2) Unlike alcohol or hard drugs, the bad effects don’t show up until you’re older. An alcoholic will often get a DUI or suffer other bad consequences in his/her 20s, but lung cancer usually won’t show up until at least your 50s, and COPD won’t kill you until you’re in your 70s. It’s easy for people to ignore the bad effects of smoking since they take so long to show up.
(3) Nobody has come up with a free group therapy solution for quitting smoking. I do know a couple of people who have been very successful in AA who were also able to use the same 12 steps to permanently quit smoking. But, as I’ve said before, I think AA really only works for a specific group of people who have a specific mental illness that has not yet been separated out from the general category currently referred to as “addiction.” The reason AA doesn’t work for everyone is the same reason you shouldn’t give an anti-depressant to someone who isn’t actually depressed — you need the right diagnosis to get to the right treatment.
(Fixed a couple of typos)
Mr. Longform
No one here is basically in disagreement; no one is saying, “just suck it up.” Is that a feature of a fairly liberal crowd? I’ve always suspected that right wingers lack an empathy gene, and that would extend to such “soft” things as mental health. With the exception always being: they are sympathetic or even willing to demand action if (and only if) the particular affliction or problem has personally touched them. I don’t really mean to be creating a problem without evidence – some conservatives are very compassionate, although almost always on an individual level. Compassion doesn’t ever seem to extend to appropriate public funding of the sorts of care opportunities all people should have.
Halcyan
You did something similar John Cole. Yes, it is absolutely a sign of strength to face reality, rather than pretend that everything is good.
Good job. Good role models.
Good luck to everyone struggling.
Villago Delenda Est
@gene108: T
This is a serious problem in American military culture. It’s particularly ingrained in the leadership ranks…you’re supposed to tough it out, and asking for help is admitting to weakness, or so the trope goes.
Linnaeus
Be well, Mr. Grunt.
brendancalling
good luck to you, Sooner Grunt. Depression can be a beast, and I wish you the best.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Howard Beale IV: There are some quit smoking support forums and groups; M.Q even has a course.
AA and the other total abstinence and/or faith-based addiction programs have shown to be rather unsuccessful for people with clinical addictions as opposed to social habits. I spend too much time with the med school psych department not to have strong opinions about these things. And it doesn’t help that I get email updates from Current Psychiatry and Psychiatry.com. I spend far too much time reading this stuff for someone without and MD.
Waysel
I second all that JC has said. Best of luck on your journey, Soonergrunt.
raven
Isn’t a depression diagnoses premature?
LanceThruster
Best wishes, Soonergrunt.
Though I imagine it’s not fully applicable in your situation, I find a lot of comfort from the following quote in my own situation. Honest self-awareness and the willingness to take the necessary steps is always the right approach. Sadly, due the nature of mental and emotional health, many are painfully unaware of the other factors contributing to their difficulties.
“Knowing that you’re crazy doesn’t make the crazy things stop happening.”
― Mark Vonnegut, The Eden Express: A Memoir of Insanity
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: FIDO, right?
Hey Sarge, do what you need to get better. We’re all in your corner.
Ruckus
@Villago Delenda Est:
Yes. It’s all about the team, the teamwork, fitting in. But when one of the team members needs help doing that it’s throw them overboard and get someone else. Unless of course this team member is high enough up the ladder that it becomes obvious that is exactly what they are doing and that someone may come along and find out that the thrower needs to be thrown overboard as well. So one just covers it up, usually in medals and gold braid.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
IM (not as educated) O, the biggest problem with 12-step programs is that they’re free by design, so it’s quick and easy for courts to send someone to one rather than saying they have to get a mental health screening.
Family example: my nephew’s father, who has been in and out of prison most of his adult life, kept getting sent to 12-step programs, and yet he kept getting in trouble. Finally, he was sent to a halfway house as part of one of his paroles, where he was diagnosed as bipolar and severely ADHD. This was absolutely no surprise to any of us since all of his known children have been diagnosed as ADHD (and bipolar once they were adults), but they just kept sending him to useless 12-step programs over and over again rather than getting him properly screened and diagnosed.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@raven: Indeed it as, and online diagnoses are inappropriate, as is a dx offered by a non-medical professional. My reflexive answer to rhetorical question.
PS: You cheated since you had lots of herb to smoke – of course it was an easy choice. My doc noted that there’s some robust data about relief from nocturnal MS pain with marijuana. I also mentioned that cocaine is a powerful antidepressant, but he said “I can’t come up with a medical justification for coke.”
WereBear
I recently ran across the tidbit that Niacin, B3, is called nicotinic acid because it has similar effects on the brain… without the bad side effects. Anecdotally, people claimed it was a great help quitting smoking, and perhaps ironically, it is great for helping with sleep.
I’ve been trying it for a month, for sleep and stress, and I’m very pleased with the results, as have two other folks I’ve discussed it with.
There’s no downside to trying it.
Ruckus
@raven:
This.
Any diagnosis of someone else’s issues is premature and out of place. Talking about one’s own issues and how they handled it, or not, can lend another angle to how to deal with an issue someone may or may not have, but a long range diagnosis of someone you’ve never met is just wrong, even if you are 100% correct. Once had a doctor acquaintance say that I should have a particular medication. My response shut him up fast. “What fucking kind of asshole doctor prescribes medications for someone without a proper history, exam and possible lab tests?”
SiubhanDuinne
@Howard Beale IV:
Ah, but there is such a thing.
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: I do IT for a doctor’s office. She has a cartoon on the counter:
“I already diagnosed myself from the Internet; I’m just here for a second opinion.”
kbuttle
Best blog ever.
J R in WV
@WaterGirl:
That’s even funnier here on the innertubes! Thanks…
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Still need a doc to write the prescription that the internet said I needed.
Fair Economist
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
Nicotine itself is at most a mild carcinogen. It also has bad effects on blood lipids, but these might be counteracted by weight loss. The health harm from smoking is overwhelmingly from the smoke.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Fair Economist: Exactly. While nicotine is toxic in high doses, it’s at worst a mild carcinogen. The smoke itself, along with the multiple additives, is the larger park of the health harm.
Roger Moore
@Fair Economist:
It’s not just from the smoke. There are all kinds of nasty substances that get into tobacco from the curing process; IIRC, nitrosamines are the worst carcinogens. That’s why smokeless tobacco is capable of causing mouth and neck cancer.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Fair Economist:
Methylphenidate Is not a carcinogen at all, so it’s probably better to give that to people than have them self-medicate with something that is a carcinogen, even a mild one.
Major Major Major Major
Good for you, Sooner. Asking for help, let’s not lie and say it’s the hardest part, but it is perhaps the lowest point. Hang in there.
Lokahi
This is good news from Soonergrunt. I’m particularly glad he’s moving forward because about three hours ago, we got word that a colleague at the animal rescue organization I’m heavily involved with apparently took her own life overnight. Some closer to her think she was suffering from depression, but she hid it superficially, and hadn’t made a good effort to reach out for help. I wish she had done what Sooner is doing…
WereBear
@Lokahi: That is just awful. I’m so sorry.
gelfling545
@raven: Oh, Mercy. Last year my eldest daughter’s SO (POSSLQ if you will) quit smoking & went into a deep depression such as I have rarely seen. He went to doctors. therapists, etc., took meds, nothing helped or relieved the persistent insomnia that accompanied it. He started taking a couple of hits of nicotine with the e-cigarette which eased his symptoms & while not being wonderful is better than smoking. He has been able to greatly reduce that since but, I think, knowing it’s available should he need it helps.
The Golux
@SiubhanDuinne: I remember hearing Charles Osgood reading it on his radio program, “The Osgood File”.
Astonishingly, it’s still on the air (and hence, he is still among the living).
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: Absolutely! I don’t believe that by displaying the cartoon the good doctor is actually suggesting that’s a good approach, just acknowledging the reality of life with the internet and a bit of good humor, at that.
Howard Beale IV
@SiubhanDuinne: Given how long tobacco has been around and how the 12-step model has been accepted for tobacco addiction (i.e., horribly) it might as well not bother to exist at all when compared to other addictive substances/behaviours.
delk
Knowing that I needed help, actually getting help, and working on maintaining and expanding on what I learned while getting help has been the best thing I ever did for myself.
This week and next week are very tough for me. I’m extremely anxious and scared but it is not destroying me. I’m using my tools and getting through it.
Ruckus
@delk:
I’m using my tools and getting through it.
First congrats on that.
Learning that you have the tools and how to use them is the heart of therapy. Without that you can’t do anything even though you recognize an issue when it comes up.
Tim C.
So say we all.
Howard Beale IV
And while we’re at it: here’s to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who underwent quadruple bypass surgery at 68 years old in LA today.
liberal
What I like about him is that he was opposed to getting involved in the Libya fiasco, unlike some idiots that comment here.
YellowJournalism
Coming out of lurk mode to wish Sooner all the best. He’s a good man, and I’m happy for him and his family that he was able to recognize when help was needed.
Gustopher
Health problems are hard, and mental health problems might be the hardest. Good for him for getting help, and it’s pretty brave to announce it to the world — brave, but helpful to destigmatize it.
Between this and John Cole’s problems drinking, I’m just expecting to hear that Betty Cracker is giving up meth next week. Don’t do it, Betty, it wouldn’t be the same around here.
mclaren
Soonergrunt remains a sociopath and a classic asshole. He enthusiastically endorses the murder of American citizens by any mugger with military uniform, without trial, and without even charging said citizen with a crime.
Soonergrunt offers the perfect example of the bully-worshiping punks who infest this forum — the gutless cowards who don’t have the balls to lynch someone or rape someone, but who will eagerly hold the lynching victim or the rape victim down while someone else does it.
As a classic coward, Soonergrunt is a also a despicable sadist, repeatedly wishing that fellow Democrats “die in a fire.”
This kind of sociopathic bully-worshiping coward is the last thing progressives need to be associated with. Go back to setting cats on fire and applauding the extrajudicial murder of U.S. citizens, Soonergrunt, you have no place in a functioning democracy.
Jenn
The best of wishes to you Sooner – be well. And all the best to your family, as well.