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You are here: Home / Politics / Proud to Be A Democrat / Minimum Waging War On The GOP

Minimum Waging War On The GOP

by Zandar|  May 1, 20159:06 am| 76 Comments

This post is in: Proud to Be A Democrat, Republican Venality, All we want is life beyond the thunderdome

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Democrats are serious about making Republicans side with the 1% again with a new $12 hourly minimum wage bill.

Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA) and Rep. Robert Scott (D-VA) are introducing a minimum wage bill on Thursday that would raise the federal floor from its current level of $7.25 an hour to $12 an hour by 2020, eliminate the lower tipped minimum wage that currently stands at $2.13 an hour, and automatically increase it as median wages rise.

Much of that plan is brand new. Previously, Democrats had set their sights on a minimum wage increase to $10.10 an hour, indexed to inflation thereafter, and only raised the tipped minimum wage to 70 percent of the regular minimum wage.

Sen. Murray said she took inspiration from the state she represents in deciding to get rid of the lower tipped wage. “Tipped workers are most exposed to the ups and downs of the economy. The unpredictability of wages makes it even more difficult to make ends meet, on top of trying to scrape by on low wages. So eliminating the tipped wage is long overdue,” she told ThinkProgress in emailed statements. “Washington state has led the way in this, and we’ve seen that it works for restaurants, businesses, and workers.”

Murray also told ThinkProgress that Washington inspired her to target a higher wage level. “There has been great work done in Washington state and across the country to increase wages even further to help the families and businesses in those communities, and I support those efforts,” she said. Washington has long had the highest wage in the country, which is currently $9.47.

This would be an outstanding piece of legislation to pass, meaning that Republicans won’t even allow a vote on it.   Guys, this is the kind of stuff Democrats need to stand for and are, so how about we help them out and vote in enough Democrats to start making bills like this more than pipe dreams that will never pass?

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Reader Interactions

76Comments

  1. 1.

    MomSense

    May 1, 2015 at 9:11 am

    Go for it, Patty! I hope we can all get behind this and explain how keeping minimum wage so low depresses wages for all of us.

    ETA This is one of those rare issues that also lends itself to good slogans. Give America a raise!

  2. 2.

    agorabum

    May 1, 2015 at 9:13 am

    Yeah, but this one time I didn’t get a pony, so both sides, no difference, etc., and Rand Paul.
    (If that didn’t make sense, it’s just like any other argument to not vote D)

  3. 3.

    Ryan

    May 1, 2015 at 9:24 am

    Exactly, finally seeing Democrats aspire to being Democrats for a change feels good. We also need to get the 401k disaster on the radar.

  4. 4.

    Punchy

    May 1, 2015 at 9:25 am

    But OH NOEZ! Think of all the upscale, $50/plate restys that will have to close because they actually have to pay their workers instead of making the customers support their employees!

  5. 5.

    Kay

    May 1, 2015 at 9:28 am

    so how about we help them out and vote in enough Democrats to start making bills like this more than pipe dreams that will never pass?

    Okay, Zandar but how about Democrats start helping labor since labor did all the on the ground work and provided all the funding for the Fight For Fifteen campaign, which has been hugely successful on moving the needle on wages?

    When that campaign started people were openly jeering at 15 but now Murray is at 12 and she’s alleged to be this great deal-maker (which may well be true) so, you know, let’s see some teamwork from Democrats and some credit where credit is due. They got here with a lot of help. Fight for Fifteen took 3 years and it was organized and funded by service workers unions. Their members quite literally paid for it, and they don’t make much more than 15 an hour.

  6. 6.

    rikyrah

    May 1, 2015 at 9:30 am

    Morning Plum: Inside GOP’s strategy for coming war over Supreme Court’s Obamacare decision

    By Greg Sargent May 1 at 9:07 AM 

    Republicans continue to insist they will have a contingency plan for the millions who might lose health coverage if the Supreme Court guts subsidies. But it looks increasingly like Republicans know their fix isn’t going to happen — and that purporting to offer one is merely about laying the groundwork for the intense political fight that may follow, in hopes of gaining a better political position not only against President Obama, but against Hillary Clinton.

    The Hill reports today that Republicans are showing a whole lot of bravado about the aftermath of a Court ruling against the law. They’ve even drawn up demands they will make in exchange for agreeing to keep subsidies going — which you are meant to see as a willingness to “strike a deal”:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/05/01/morning-plum-inside-gops-strategy-for-coming-war-over-supreme-courts-obamacare-decision/

  7. 7.

    TheMightyTrowel

    May 1, 2015 at 9:30 am

    Awesome! Give America a raise indeed!

  8. 8.

    Face

    May 1, 2015 at 9:31 am

    I’m sure there’s something in Leviticus about service employees making $12/hr being an abomination worthy of stoning and/or beheading.

  9. 9.

    JPL

    May 1, 2015 at 9:41 am

    @rikyrah: The President should hold a news conference and tell them to change three little words if they are serious about fixing health care.

  10. 10.

    VidaLoca

    May 1, 2015 at 9:41 am

    @Face:
    @Kay:

    Well, if the Democrats bid $12 that pretty effectively undercuts the service employees demand for $15. Not as dramatic as stoning or beheading I will grant you, but still effective for the purpose.

    To be fair, two years ago they were undercutting us in WI at $10 so I guess it’s progress. But as soon as they put $10 on the table (in the middle of a push to get $15 which they ferdamsure knew about) $10 became the standard.

  11. 11.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 1, 2015 at 9:41 am

    Twelve dollars is too little too late. The minimum wage should be a living wage with cost of living adjustments.

  12. 12.

    WereBear

    May 1, 2015 at 9:42 am

    Guys, this is the kind of stuff Democrats need to stand for and are, so how about we help them out and vote in enough Democrats to start making bills like this more than pipe dreams that will never pass?

    Exactly. This is why I can’t abide the “both parties are useless” whining that is so popular online… yes, from the planet Mars they are both in thrall to giant forces. Yet, right here on Earth, it’s the difference between health care for millions more than had it before… and nothing.

    Yes, Mister Anarchist, I’m sure the civilization YOU would build from scratch will work better, but it’s taken us 12,000 years to build THIS one. I don’t have time for you.

  13. 13.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 1, 2015 at 9:43 am

    @WereBear: Both parties are not the same but the timidity of the Democrats leaves a lot to be desired.

  14. 14.

    Baud

    May 1, 2015 at 9:47 am

    Relevant

    Prospects for low-wage workers at some large companies have improved recently as both Walmart and McDonald’s announced pay hikes, but one of the most significant announcements came at Aetna.

    The large insurance company raised the pay of its low-wage workers to $16 an hour this month. Aetna’s CEO Mark Bertolini says he believes the raise could largely pay for itself by making workers more productive.

  15. 15.

    GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)

    May 1, 2015 at 9:47 am

    If the GDP was divided equally, everybody would earn $59k/year. $15/hour isn’t too much to ask.

  16. 16.

    Woodrowfan

    May 1, 2015 at 9:48 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    @WereBear: Both parties are not the same but the timidity of the Democrats leaves a lot to be desired.

    this!!! A thousand times this!!!

  17. 17.

    Kay

    May 1, 2015 at 9:54 am

    @VidaLoca:

    I like Patty Murray, and she did give a nod to what’s happening at the state/local level, so there’s some recognition that groundwork was laid. To me, it’s just “what happened”. The minimum wage was stalled and then we had 2 years of media coverage of the plight of low wage workers. There wouldn’t have been any media coverage if 2000 of them hadn’t been out in the street, over and over and over and over. Good job. Bravo. It’s YOUR win.

  18. 18.

    Woodrowfan

    May 1, 2015 at 9:58 am

    I love Mr. Dooley’s quote on the Democratic Party: `Tis niver so good as whin’ tis broke, whin rayspictable people speak iv it in whispers..

  19. 19.

    Mike J

    May 1, 2015 at 10:02 am

    @Kay:

    The minimum wage was stalled and then we had 2 years of media coverage of the plight of low wage workers. There wouldn’t have been any media coverage if 2000 of them hadn’t been out in the street, over and over and over and over

    A lot of people like to bring up Roosevelt’s “make me do it”, and think it just means talking tough. This is actually what “making them do it” looks like. It’s hard word and it takes a long time.

  20. 20.

    Zandar

    May 1, 2015 at 10:03 am

    Yes Kay, because the entire point of the post was to trash the Fight for Fifteen movement.

    Jesus.

    Fucking.

    Christ.

  21. 21.

    HRA

    May 1, 2015 at 10:12 am

    All people working as wait staff will not be exactly happy at a $12 or $15 dollar minimum wage and the loss of tips. Some make a lot more than $12 or $15 per hour in tips.
    While I was waiting and going on interviews with my government job, I worked in a restaurant at the low wage plus health care coverage in 1980. In one evening, I made enough tips to buy a new TV and I bought it.

    Yes, where tips are part of the work force wages, they will either close down the businesses or fire workers.

  22. 22.

    The Thin Black Duke

    May 1, 2015 at 10:15 am

    @Zandar: No reason to be rude, Zander.

  23. 23.

    NobodySpecial

    May 1, 2015 at 10:15 am

    @Zandar:

    Well, I’m sorry, dude, but Kay has a point: Too many of the Democrats we’re being asked to support are exactly the kind of Joe Manchin clones that will help never bring this to a vote – and if we ask for something better, we’re accused of seeking ponies or some other bullshit. As the old saying goes, call me when you’re serious.

  24. 24.

    bemused

    May 1, 2015 at 10:15 am

    The Hill in Feb. reported Associated Press/GfK poll showing 60% of Americans want higher minimum wage and paid sick leave.

    Take Action Minnesota reported poll that Minnesotans and Americans overall want Social Security increased by about same percentage.

    Republicans included in Defense funding bill a block against protecting our troops from predatory lending.

    Tim Dickinson had a chart in Dec Rolling Stone mag, Hot Political Strategy, Ignore Public Opinion showing majority of Americans wanting higher minimum wage, path to citizenship, both parties working together to strengthen ACA, etc, etc, along with proposed bills by Dems and thumbs down by Republicans.

    Democratic voters polled higher on these issues than Republican voters but Republicans were over 50% in favor on many such as increased Social Security.

    Infuriating.

  25. 25.

    boatboy_srq

    May 1, 2015 at 10:15 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: @Woodrowfan: Exactly.

  26. 26.

    Belafon

    May 1, 2015 at 10:16 am

    If I could get on twitter, I would pull up the picture of someone from Denmark. She gets $21 US/hr, guaranteed hours, guaranteed two days off, healthcare, sick days, and vacation, working at a McDonald’s. A Big Mac costs something like 75 cents more to cover it.

    The point being that raising wages wouldn’t cause prices to skyrocket.

  27. 27.

    Belafon

    May 1, 2015 at 10:20 am

    Too agree with Zandar, Murray makes a pretty significant leap, and what do we do, we point out how she’s failing. The cool thing about that is, if she succeeds, she fails, and if she fails, she fails. Pretty sure it makes us all feel better while low wage workers keep suffering.

  28. 28.

    MomSense

    May 1, 2015 at 10:22 am

    @Kay:

    Yes, Democrats should help labor but there are some issues with the implementation of the fight for $15 that need to be addressed. First, I think Labor should be focusing on Walmart, fast food chains, hotel chains, etc because these corporations can afford to raise wages right now. I’m thinking of some of the mom and pop places in a rural state like Maine that cannot afford the jump from $8 or $7.5 to $15.

    The President really kicked off this minimum wage issue by calling for it in the SOTU and raising the wage for govt. contractors right away. Yes, it was only $10 but it was movement. It gave momentum to minimum wage referenda in multiple states and to the organizing that labor unions were doing on Fight for $15.

    I’m definitely a supporter of labor and have done a lot of work for labor (as a volunteer) on a number of issues like health care and card check but I think that you are making this issue more cut and dry than it really is. Small business owners (legitimate small businesses like a 30 room hotel owned by a small family) cannot jump to $15 so we need to be careful how this is implemented or we are going to recreate some of the rifts that caused a lot of people to turn on labor unions 30 years ago.

  29. 29.

    NotMax

    May 1, 2015 at 10:23 am

    to $12 an hour by 2020

    $12 in 2020 might – might – buy a cup of coffee.

    A small one.

  30. 30.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 1, 2015 at 10:25 am

    @MomSense: Its $12 by 2020, not right now. As I said before, too little, too late.

    ETA: If the only way the mom-and-pop stores can stay in business is by sucking their labor force dry, then may be they should go out of business. Is it really better if its a local business that is screwing you rather than Walmart.

  31. 31.

    Peale

    May 1, 2015 at 10:30 am

    @NotMax: Yes. Because inflation is so out of control Its like Weimar out there.

  32. 32.

    debbie

    May 1, 2015 at 10:32 am

    @MomSense:

    I hope we can all get behind this and explain how keeping minimum wage so low depresses wages for all of us.

    Not to mention it’ll do more for the economy and job creation than all the trickling down combined.

  33. 33.

    NotMax

    May 1, 2015 at 10:35 am

    @Peale

    I take it you don’t do much regular grocery shopping.

  34. 34.

    FlipYrWhig

    May 1, 2015 at 10:38 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Both parties are not the same but the timidity of the Democrats leaves a lot to be desired.

    Why do you think Democrats are “timid”? Here’s my answer: because they know that being braver would mean a greater likelihood of losing. IOW, I don’t think “braver” (defined as more populist and/or working-class oriented) is an obvious winner in a lot of districts. Most people who find populist ideas appealing are also susceptible to scaremongering about How To Pay For It or It Costs Jobs.

  35. 35.

    FlipYrWhig

    May 1, 2015 at 10:40 am

    @NotMax: You’re buying coffee a cup at a time from a grocery store? You could try buying a whole can of the stuff and making cups one at a time with a $20 machine.

  36. 36.

    Peale

    May 1, 2015 at 10:40 am

    @NotMax: My maid does that for me. I don’t have time to go to Whole Foods and the Farmer’s market myself.

  37. 37.

    Roger Moore

    May 1, 2015 at 10:46 am

    @HRA:

    All people working as wait staff will not be exactly happy at a $12 or $15 dollar minimum wage and the loss of tips.

    Who said anything about the loss of tips? The goal is to eliminate the existence of a separate, lower minimum wage for people who earn tips. That’s already the case in several states, including the whole West Coast. Because they make the same minimum wage plus tips, servers out here can actually make decent living and treat waiting as a career, rather than something to do until a real job comes along.

  38. 38.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 1, 2015 at 10:48 am

    @FlipYrWhig: Whatever their strategy has been, it is failing to get them elected in many places.

  39. 39.

    Eric U.

    May 1, 2015 at 10:48 am

    upperdown vote, that’s all we want, upperdown vote, what’s so hard about that? (channeling my inner republican)

  40. 40.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 1, 2015 at 10:49 am

    This thread is an excellent example of why Republican candidates are free to be the biggest assholes they can imagine, but Democratic candidates are cautious and play it safe. They certainly won’t get any reward from their base if they push for anything.

  41. 41.

    MomSense

    May 1, 2015 at 10:50 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Well if the little mom and pop places go out of business there are literally no jobs left except where there are Walmarts and McDs. I don’t think people realize how dire the situation is in rural Maine and I’m sure other places in the country as well.

    ETA We are also talking about a little businesses where the owners work 24/7. We are not talking about fat cats exploiting their workers.

  42. 42.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 1, 2015 at 10:54 am

    @MomSense: The owners who work 24/7 are building equity in their business, not so the minimum wage worker.

    ETA: Most businesses, even small ones will not go bankrupt if they paid their workers a fair wage. Yes I do agree, that the big corporations will be able to absorb the change better than small businesses.

  43. 43.

    FlipYrWhig

    May 1, 2015 at 10:54 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: True, which is why they don’t really know what to do, which is why they focus-group everything, which is why they end up seeming risk-averse, and then the cycle goes around again. I don’t know what’s to be done, but I caution against presuming that populism is a surefire winner. It may be good and ethical and admirable, but I’m not holding my breath that it’s a winning ticket.

  44. 44.

    NotMax

    May 1, 2015 at 10:55 am

    @FlipYrWhig

    Way to take things out of context.

  45. 45.

    FlipYrWhig

    May 1, 2015 at 10:55 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: Then again, maybe the sideline carpers aren’t really The Base.

  46. 46.

    FlipYrWhig

    May 1, 2015 at 10:57 am

    @NotMax: You have to admit it’s a fairly strange fear, being concerned that in 5 years the price of a small cup of coffee is going to increase 1000%.

  47. 47.

    JPL

    May 1, 2015 at 10:57 am

    All the officers involved with Gray are being charged. As soon as available, I’ll copy and paste the charges.

  48. 48.

    JPL

    May 1, 2015 at 10:59 am

    From the NY Times

    The state attorney of Baltimore, in a unexpected announcement, said Friday that she had probable cause to file homicide, manslaughter and misconduct charges against the police officers in the death of Freddie Gray, who was died after sustaining a spinal cord injury while in police custody.

  49. 49.

    gvg

    May 1, 2015 at 11:05 am

    It would be nice if $15 proposed wouldn’t automatically cause a BIG loss which is what I think would happen and that is why proposing $12 is actually brave not timid. Too many people have been brainwashed to think things like raising the minimum wage is terrible and unions are evil. Mostly people who are deluding themselves about their own financial positions, but they really believe it. Strategy matters and so does getting something rather than crashing and burning without even doing that well enough to get attention. Kay, haven’t you written before about not undermining democrats who propose things? Well even if I am misremembering who said what, in this case I think this is progress. Not ideal progress, just progress. I think its going to fail because of Republican control of Congress, but even putting it out there is helpful as proof to people where democrats stand so some places might elect a few more of them one election at a time. If we had the numbers, we could get $15 but we don’t and polls aren’t that dramatically pro raises. Voters aren’t that solidly behind it that they can push past gerrymandering to elect people who match those poll opinions. Right now after 40 years of bad economic conventional wisdom, a raise to catch up to what minimum wage should be would seem too radical to too many people. We are going to have to lead them in stages to see past the stupid propaganda.
    Sometimes it’s really hard to not call people a bunch of ninnies though.
    The democrats who proposed this, can lose reelection by both getting more attacks from the right AND drawing fire from the left for their timidity. No wonder showing leadership is rare. Its not really being rewarded. How about attacking any dems who don’t support this minimal proposal and REALLY attacking all the GOP who will attack it? Not the ones who are taking some chances and trying to get some crumbs for us?

  50. 50.

    Kay

    May 1, 2015 at 11:05 am

    @MomSense:

    First, I think Labor should be focusing on Walmart, fast food chains, hotel chains, etc because these corporations can afford to raise wages right now.

    They are, though. That’s the entire focus. They had a whole campaign around Wal Mart- it’s called Our Wal Mart. Wal Mart certainly took it seriously. There’s been tons of litigation around it.

    There’s an easy fix for the small business complaint. You make two categories- large employer and small employer. Ohio has that now. We raised the minimum wage thru a referendum, a campaign in 6 states that was also backed and funded by labor.

    I get the “support Democrats” idea. I agree completely. However. Support works two ways. Their is no direct financial benefit to labor unions from this investment they made, because they aren’t collecting dues from Wal Mart workers, and they will probably never collect a dime from a McDonald’s employee. I would really be thrilled if some Democrat saw fit to mention that- an unapologetic backing of this work they are doing. The complaint about labor unions was for years that they don’t fund “social justice” type campaigns- they only look out for their members. This is different. They’re raising the floor for every working person, everywhere.

  51. 51.

    D58826

    May 1, 2015 at 11:05 am

    @JPL: She certainly lowered the boom on the cops involved. Given her description of the callas disregard of the safety of Gray, I wonder why it wasn’t first degree murder. You don’t keep throwing a person in a police van w/o a seat belt without some level of pre-meditation. On the other hand no sense in overcharging and risking an acquittal, like the cop in Chicago.

  52. 52.

    MomSense

    May 1, 2015 at 11:06 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I agree that they should be building equity in their businesses however state governments keep shifting the tax burden to sales taxes, fees, and to municipalities who keep raising property taxes to keep the towns afloat. Small businesses are definitely getting squeezed.

    Look if this weren’t an issue Republicans wouldn’t keep talking about small businesses and getting such good feedback from small business owners and rural voters. You and I know that when Republicans talk about policies to benefit small businesses they really mean gazillionaire S corps but that is not what these rural voters and small business owners are hearing.

  53. 53.

    JPL

    May 1, 2015 at 11:07 am

    @D58826: yup

  54. 54.

    NotMax

    May 1, 2015 at 11:09 am

    @FlipYrWhig

    Okay, will try and lay it out elementarily for you.

    It was an example agreeing with MomSense (and others) above, that it is too little, too late.

    Once taxes and FICA are taken out of that $12, what’s left will get you a cuppa.

    There have been numerous studies of what the minimum wage, if adjusted for inflation, would be today when adjusted from a base of various years in the 60s, 70s and 80s. In 2015 dollars, $12 is below any of those estimates which I’ve yet seen.

  55. 55.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 1, 2015 at 11:14 am

    @MomSense: Well they did vote for that fat bastard from Marden’s twice, didn’t they.

  56. 56.

    MomSense

    May 1, 2015 at 11:16 am

    @Kay:

    I know that they are focusing on Walmart and fast food chains, etc. It makes sense. While I’m not privy to the cost benefit analyses Unions have done on this issue, it may not directly benefit unions to wage this campaign but it will definitely affect union wages when Walmart employees are no longer massively suppressing wages for all of us and getting all of us to pay their employees’ health benefits, housing, food, etc.

    Labor unions didn’t directly benefit from the PPACA either. In fact it harmed some of the unions who had been negotiating for benefits sometimes in lieu of raises.

  57. 57.

    Kay

    May 1, 2015 at 11:21 am

    @NotMax:

    I disagree just because raising the floor raises the floor. Every single working person in this county benefits from that fact that about 50% of the county are unionized. Those jobs are the standard by which every other job is measured. If there’s a lower floor then there’s a lower floor. It’s trickle up economics :)

    15 an hour isn’t a high wage here for manufacturing. It’s the floor. Unless you want the floor to be 12 you better hope we keep 50% at $22. Going from 9 to 10 would help. It all helps. There’s a big group of people at each of these wages. You’re moving much more than the minimum wage. That’s why conservatives and business interests go absolutely insane. They’re not worried about the teenager making 8 an hour. They’d give her a dollar. They’re worried about the huge mass of people who are in that range.

  58. 58.

    MomSense

    May 1, 2015 at 11:21 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Because he speaks their language even if he pushes for policies that harm them. I guess I’m just pushing for those of us who are Dems/progressives/liberals whatever the fuck we call ourselves to try and think about how what we say and the policies we advocate for are heard and understood by voters.

    I spent months in awful phone calls to rural voters so I know how fucked up it is that they voted for LePage but honestly we really sucked at messaging to them.

  59. 59.

    NotMax

    May 1, 2015 at 11:27 am

    @Kay

    Which is precisely why $12 in 2020 is too low, too late.

  60. 60.

    Kay

    May 1, 2015 at 11:28 am

    @MomSense:

    I think there has been a coordinated, deliberate effort to devalue the work that people do, and I tihnk it harms every person who is not a millionaire. We needed to change the focus away from what employers provide (job creators!) to what employees provide. If we can do that for fast food workers we can do it for anyone. They’re the floor.

  61. 61.

    Kay

    May 1, 2015 at 11:30 am

    @NotMax:

    I have trouble with counter-factuals :)

    If the argument is there was a better number that wasn’t too little too late, well, that’s just outside my general approach to life :)

  62. 62.

    Cacti

    May 1, 2015 at 11:32 am

    Might as well. The GOP is trying to pass bills to let the oligarchs write off their political purchases, and end the estate tax for 1-percenter sprogs.

    Get them on record when it comes to people who have to work for a living.

  63. 63.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 1, 2015 at 11:33 am

    @Kay: I agree completely, devaluation of labor affects everyone who works for a living and who is not a rentier.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    May 1, 2015 at 11:33 am

    @MomSense:

    The last Fight For Fifteen action (April 15) they had a new entry into the ranks. Adjuncts. They were joined by adjuncts. That was kind of wonderful to behold because one can’t really argue that adjuncts just need to go to college.

    The basic idea is an adjunct has much more commonality of interest with a fast food worker than with a CEO. That’s true! So maybe it wil take hold.

  65. 65.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 1, 2015 at 11:34 am

    @NotMax: It should be $20 in 20, not 12.

  66. 66.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 1, 2015 at 11:35 am

    @Kay: There is glut of PhDs, even in the STEM disciplines. Retraining for new jobs is just a massive scam.

    ETA: NYT had an article yesterday about the glut of law school graduates too.

  67. 67.

    NotMax

    May 1, 2015 at 11:38 am

    @Kay

    You know and I know that proposing $12 will lead to dickering that will result (if any agreement is reached at all) in a number well below that.

    Starting with a higher number reflecting the realities of the studies I mentioned above gives the leeway to compromise on a more realistic final amount.

  68. 68.

    Kay

    May 1, 2015 at 11:39 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I think you also have to keep in mind “if you’re not winning you’re losing”. The powers that be that oppose solid wages don’t stop at 8 dollars an hour. What they’re really after is to get rid of “employee” and all the protections that come with that. What they’d like best is if everyone was a contract worker without federal law protections and the obligation for the employer to pay Social Security and worker’s comp.

    One of the most pervasive and damaging trends we are seeing in the 21st century workplace is the deliberate misclassification of workers by employers looking to shift responsibility and cut costs.
    Two judgments announced this week in Utah and Arizona demonstrate our commitment to cracking down on this practice, whereby companies claim that their workers are not employees but independent contractors.
    The defendants (operating collectively as CSG Workforce Partners, Universal Contracting, LLC and Arizona Tract/Arizona CLA) required their construction workers to become “member/ owners” of limited liability companies, stripping them of legal rights that come with employee status. The construction workers were building houses in Utah and Arizona one day as employees; then the next day performing the same work, on the very same jobsites and for the same companies, but without the protection of federal and state wage and safety laws. The companies, in turn, avoided paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in payroll taxes.

    https://blog.dol.gov/2015/04/23/battling-a-damaging-workplace-trend/

  69. 69.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 1, 2015 at 11:45 am

    @Kay: The assault on the 99% is endless. No overtime, no bargaining rights, no sick leave, even having a job is considered a luxury. Higher unemployment suits the 1% just fine. Its what keeps the poorly paid and poorly treated workers in line.

  70. 70.

    Kay

    May 1, 2015 at 11:48 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I’m sort of protected from the glut of law school graduates because they don’t want to live here and it’s basically a higher-wage middle class lifestyle. It has benefits- it’s interesting and varied and we all know one another and you really can help people and I have an enormous amount of freedom as far as scheduling, but it isn’t big bucks by any means. The only new lawyers we get are people who grew up here and pretty much return to replace retirees. It’s a fine life but it’s hard work (like any job) and it’s not especially high-paying. I would never complain because it puts me in the top 10% in income in this town, but as you know that’s relative :)

  71. 71.

    Kay

    May 1, 2015 at 11:58 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    One of the problems for younger lawyers is lawyers go forever. It’s one of those jobs where you really DO learn a lot with experience and it gets easier and really more efficient the longer you go, so there’s a late-stage career pay-off that is very hard for some people to give up. They hit this 25 year experience accrual where they just have encountered a lot and have this huge bank of knowlege and relationships to draw on. It’s very social too, if you’re a small town practitioner, so that becomes so much a part of your life- you’re out and about all the time. I bet retirement looks barren compared to talking to 50 people every day and being in three courts.

    We get open resentment of public lawyers who retire from that job and then go into private practice. I can see it. To a 25 year old with student loans that just looks greedy :)

  72. 72.

    Marc McKenzie

    May 1, 2015 at 12:02 pm

    @agorabum: Beat me to it. Spot on.

  73. 73.

    Marc McKenzie

    May 1, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    @WereBear: Well said, WereBear. Sadly, it will go over the heads of some. But what else is new.

  74. 74.

    schrodinger's cat

    May 1, 2015 at 12:09 pm

    @Kay: Well most of the PhDs and law school graduates aren’t exactly starving they are just not working in the fields that they trained for, for years and years.

  75. 75.

    Doug r

    May 1, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    @Punchy: yea tipping is just an excuse to have artificially low published prices .

  76. 76.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    May 1, 2015 at 4:20 pm

    The text of the bill isn’t on Congress.gov yet, but here’s where S.1150 will be when action finally shows up.

    Murray’s summary makes it sound like she’s thought about the tipped-wage issue. It has a big list of co-sponsors, but McConnell (and Boehner) probably has no interest in letting it out of committee.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

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