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You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Friday Afternoon Open Thread

Friday Afternoon Open Thread

by Betty Cracker|  May 8, 20154:37 pm| 165 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Politics, Open Threads, Assholes

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Today, I am the owl on the left:

Open thread!

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Previous Post: « Not Exactly Breaking News: Racism Is Bad For Your Health
Next Post: Enough to Choke an Everglades Python… »

Reader Interactions

165Comments

  1. 1.

    Ruviana

    May 8, 2015 at 4:38 pm

    A whole new take on “Who peed in your corn flakes!”

  2. 2.

    Germy Shoemangler

    May 8, 2015 at 4:40 pm

    Sometimes we are all the owl on the left.

    His reaction was excellent. Very understated.

    Do you remember the Geico commercial with the owl husband?

  3. 3.

    Cacti

    May 8, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    Since it’s an open thread, why is Google saying that today marks 70 years since the end of World War II…

    Considering another half million people would lose their lives in the Pacific theatre after the war in Europe had ended?

  4. 4.

    K488

    May 8, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler: Who?

  5. 5.

    Amir Khalid

    May 8, 2015 at 4:55 pm

    @Cacti:
    For the same reason some Americans say World War II only began on December 7, 1941, when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

  6. 6.

    raven

    May 8, 2015 at 5:01 pm

    @Amir Khalid:.Any site worth it’s salt would mention that it is VE Day. It has nothing to do with what “some Americans” think or say.

  7. 7.

    Mike E

    May 8, 2015 at 5:01 pm

    I’m the owlest owl in any room.

    /Temple U grad

  8. 8.

    srv

    May 8, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    BEAVERTON, Ore. — President Obama on Friday lashed out at critics within his own party as he accused fellow Democrats of deliberately distorting the potential impact of the sweeping new trade agreement he is negotiating with Asia and standing in the way of a modern competitive economy.

    With the same tone of disdain he usually reserves for his Republican adversaries, Mr. Obama said liberals who are fighting the new trade accord, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, were “just wrong” and, in terms of some of their claims, “making this stuff up.” If they oppose the deal, he said, they “must be satisfied with the status quo” and want to “pull up the drawbridge and build a moat around ourselves.”

    We must expend more capital on this.

  9. 9.

    Amir Khalid

    May 8, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    @raven:
    But I’m not referring to VE Day. I’m referring to the fact that, on the day that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and invaded my country, World War II had already been going on for two years in Europe.

  10. 10.

    Roger Moore

    May 8, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    I was very pleased to see Michael Hiltzik of the LA Times citing BJ’s own Richard Mahew in today’s column on Obamacare networks. More gratifying than surprising to see his excellent work getting exposed to a wider audience.

  11. 11.

    Corner Stone

    May 8, 2015 at 5:12 pm

    @K488: The owl husband in that commercial. His wife is talking about a coworker named Megan that he’s met previously.

  12. 12.

    Corner Stone

    May 8, 2015 at 5:13 pm

    @Roger Moore: He has cited Richard at least once previously. Good stuff.

  13. 13.

    Corner Stone

    May 8, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    @srv: The TPP is simply a further exportation of wages. Nothing more.
    President Obama should be ashamed of himself for so prominently pushing fast track for this deal.

  14. 14.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 5:19 pm

    Weekend if you got ’em!

    It’s been a gorgeous week here, and frankly, we’re owed, because everyone was talking about buds popping and getting out in the yard while I still had a foot of snow.

    Next week will be someone else’s turn…

    Brought home my Bucket of Pansies to enjoy, or at least to get them some rainfall at my house. They are on the porch at work and I want them to have every benefit!

    —–Also, new post up on my health blog:

    What doctors see

  15. 15.

    Southern Goth

    May 8, 2015 at 5:23 pm

    @srv:

    And he made those arguments to a crowd in Beaverton?

    Most of Portland is pretty much okay with pulling up the drawbridge.

  16. 16.

    Howard Beale IV

    May 8, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    @srv: Obama doesn’t realize that the knives are really out on TPA and TTIP-and the more he keeps dismissing, the worse it gets for him-as it should. He might want to be reminded what happened when Clinton signed the Glass-Stegal repeal, GLBA, and CFMA during his tenure under the guise that it would make the US Financial markets strong-only to have the near total collapse of the world economy in 2008 thanks to his signature.

    Quite curious that Obama goes to the Corporate HQ of Nike, yet won’t dare go to the production line where the signature Nike product is produced, eh? Kinda makes ya go Hmmmm…..

  17. 17.

    Tree With Water

    May 8, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    Bingo. Charles Pierce at Esquire.com today:

    “..Pitching this job-wrecking runaway train at Nike World HQ is demonstration enough that some of what the president’s opponents say about his arrogance is not misplaced…. and the president should be ashamed to lend his name to it. And, no, the Affordable Care Act and the minimum wage and Lilly Ledbetter doesn’t buy you enough credulity from the American public to pretend that Nike will now turn into Ben and Jerry’s just because you tell the company to do so. Not in this country. Not any more”.

  18. 18.

    Howard Beale IV

    May 8, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    The TPP is simply a further exportation of wages. Nothing more.

    And ISDS is just a ‘Nothing to see here. move along’ side sideshow?

  19. 19.

    Germy Shoemangler

    May 8, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    The British election that had people dancing in the streets.

    1959.

  20. 20.

    kindness

    May 8, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    You spend too much time on the net Betty.

  21. 21.

    lonesomerobot

    May 8, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    I read, “I am the owl” and thought we were getting a Dead Kennedys reference for a second there

  22. 22.

    Brachiator

    May 8, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    I was very pleased to see Michael Hiltzik of the LA Times citing BJ’s own Richard Mahew in today’s column on Obamacare networks.

    Interesting article. Thanks for bringing it to everyone’s attention.

    And yep, cool that Mayhew gets a nod.

  23. 23.

    Liquid

    May 8, 2015 at 6:00 pm

    “Sometimes you eat the owl on the left, and sometimes, well, he eats you.”

  24. 24.

    srv

    May 8, 2015 at 6:01 pm

    @Southern Goth: Nike says shoe tariffs prevent eleventy billion domestic jerbs.

    Perhaps Nike has plans for prison factories. Or we could just convert elementary schools.

  25. 25.

    D58826

    May 8, 2015 at 6:01 pm

    And the beat goes on in Baltimore. Someone (cops?) is leaking the PD’s investigation of Grey’s death and it differs from what the prosecutor is saying. The FOP is filing suit to have Mosby recuse herself from the case. Obviously a not so subtle attempt to poison the jury pool.

    The Guardian is reporting that lieutenant Rice called a nearby police department and demanded that they arrest his ex-girl friend’s husband or ‘heads will roll’. In 2012 a restraining order was issued at the request of the ex-girl friend.s husband after Rice began stalking the couple. He was temporarily stripped of his badge and gun and given a desk job. Real upstanding citizen and a man of impeccable judgement.

  26. 26.

    Gravenstone

    May 8, 2015 at 6:04 pm

    @raven: Except Google is explicitly presenting it as the anniversary of the end of the war, NOT VE Day. To Cacti’s point, the war had its most devastating final months yet to play out.

  27. 27.

    Germy Shoemangler

    May 8, 2015 at 6:04 pm

    Key & Peele spoof Ancestry.com

    They get better and better.

  28. 28.

    Mike J

    May 8, 2015 at 6:08 pm

    @Roger Moore: I was shocked that the thread in question wasn’t filled with comments screaming BenGazzara! after the link appear in a newspaper.

  29. 29.

    Steeplejack

    May 8, 2015 at 6:09 pm

    I am lusting for egg fu yung tonight. My go-to Chinese restaurant doesn’t make it, but a couple of weeks ago I found out by chance that the place my brother gets takeout from in Arlington does—and it’s darn good. I haven’t had any in ages, except the little bit I cadged off my brother’s plate, so I’m going to motor down Lee Highway to Hunan Village and pick up an order when I go out to run some errands in a bit. I need a lot of things from the grocery—cat food!—and I need to hit the liquor store, too.

  30. 30.

    Germy Shoemangler

    May 8, 2015 at 6:14 pm

    @Steeplejack: I remember the Charlie Chaplin quote, I think it was during his trouble in the 1950s, he said that all America could be proud of was nutritionally-balanced cat food.

  31. 31.

    sharl

    May 8, 2015 at 6:15 pm

    Lies, all lies!

    Leslie Shedd, press secretary for the Super PAC Carly for America, issued the following statement: “During Carly’s tenure at HP, she doubled revenue, tripled innovation, and quadrupled cash flow. Under Carly’s leadership, HP weathered the 2001 economic recession that shuttered some of the top tech companies in Silicon Valley. Carly Fiorina made the tough decisions that were necessary to reform the company, and HP and its shareholders reaped the rewards of those decisions after she left.”

    Adam Smith @asmith83

    What?

    Every politician tries to put a gloss on their record, but Fiorina’s claims about her business success are questionable in almost every respect. Her statements either lack significant context or resulted from a creative cherry-picking of the facts. She earns Three Pinocchios.

    Don’t put up with that Carly. Git em!

  32. 32.

    Germy Shoemangler

    May 8, 2015 at 6:16 pm

    Charlie Chaplin auto-tuned: “Let Us All Unite”

  33. 33.

    Baud

    May 8, 2015 at 6:18 pm

    @sharl:

    doubled revenue, tripled innovation, and quadrupled cash flow.

    Um…how does one measure innovation numerically?

    The other two things, while probably lies, are understandable lies.

  34. 34.

    Baud

    May 8, 2015 at 6:20 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler: That was cute.

  35. 35.

    Mandalay

    May 8, 2015 at 6:22 pm

    (Via digby) Dr. Ben Carson has just gone up in my estimation. In an otherwise cringe-inducing interview, he politely told Hugh Hewitt to go fuck himself….

    HH: Is it fair for people to worry that you just haven’t been in the world strategy long enough to be competent to imagine you in the Oval Office deciding these things? I mean, we’ve tried an amateur for the last six years and look what it got us.

    BC: …And as far as having an amateur in the Oval Office in the last six years, I would take issue with that. I would say that this man has been able to accomplish a great deal. It’s maybe not the things that you and I want accomplished, but in terms of fundamentally changing this nation and putting it on a different footing? I think he’s done quite a masterful job.

    Carson is hopelessly unqualified to be president, but the man is not an Uncle Tom. Good for him.

    http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2015/05/dr-ben-carson-can-see-baltics-from-his.html

  36. 36.

    sharl

    May 8, 2015 at 6:23 pm

    @Baud:
    PR_Flack-to-English translation:
    ……….”Innovation” = # of patents

    Many of which, as the WaPo article pointed out, HP inherited when they bought Compaq. Kessler said that, rather than triple the innovation number of patents, the most generous Fiorina-favorable estimate would be closer to double.

  37. 37.

    Baud

    May 8, 2015 at 6:25 pm

    @Mandalay: I am pleasantly surprised.

    @sharl: Gotcha.

  38. 38.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 6:26 pm

    My plan for tomorrow is to put all my clothes in the living room and sort them according to The Japanese Art of Tidying.

    This book had a profound effect on me, and since it’s not time for the clothes seasonal changeover, I’m going to try a first for me: putting away ALL my clothes, and getting rid of ALL the ones which do not “bring me joy.”

    That’s the author’s criteria, and I’m going with it. Who among us does not have clothes in drawers we never wear? I will free them to find a new destiny.

  39. 39.

    bemused

    May 8, 2015 at 6:26 pm

    What the heck can I write in a blank card for a wedding shower that isn’t cloying and sentimental? God, I hate, hate those sappy messages.

  40. 40.

    Amir Khalid

    May 8, 2015 at 6:28 pm

    @Mandalay:

    BC: Well, the Islamic faith emanated from Esau.

    ??

  41. 41.

    Amir Khalid

    May 8, 2015 at 6:31 pm

    @bemused:
    I think you’re supposed to write something cloying and sentimental. It’s the safe fallback if you don’t know the couple very well.

  42. 42.

    skerry

    May 8, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    My daughter’s cat ate a staple that he pulled out of a wall (not sure why the staple was there, but…), so she asked me to pay for his surgery as a graduation gift. The staple has implanted in his stomach lining.

    Ugh.

    Surgery scheduled for Monday. Poor kitty. Thoughts for Pico, please.

  43. 43.

    NotMax

    May 8, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    No one seems to have mentioned that yesterday was the 78th anniversary of the destruction of the Hindenburg.

    So I shall.

  44. 44.

    shell

    May 8, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    That little owl’s face was the perfect ‘WTF’ expression.

    Get Harry Potter to give that other owl a zap in the ba-doobies.

  45. 45.

    Howard Beale IV

    May 8, 2015 at 6:34 pm

    @Mandalay: Carson knows that Obama was dealt a shit sandwich and delivered-but not in the dominionist track that he would have preferred. You actually have to give Carson some props here for recognizing that Obama knew enough of the process to get done what he wanted to accomplish while he had the resources to do it.

  46. 46.

    Betty Cracker

    May 8, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    @bemused:

    “Marriage is the operation by which a woman’s vanity and a man’s egotism are extracted without an anesthetic.” ―Helen Rowland

    The mister and I will be celebrating our 19th at the end of this month, and we can attest that the quote is absolutely true, too.

  47. 47.

    Mandalay

    May 8, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    ??

    I know, but TBF I did warn that most of the interview was cringe-inducing…

  48. 48.

    shell

    May 8, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    @WereBear: I have an old sweatshirt with the legend ‘I Am Not Martha Stewart”

    Truer words never spoken. Time to re-home it.

  49. 49.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    @bemused: “Best of Luck” works for me.

  50. 50.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 6:38 pm

    @skerry: Thoughted. It is very sweet of your daughter to care about her cat.

    In case this is an issue, see my article:

    Cats and Hair Ties, or What is Pica?

  51. 51.

    Amir Khalid

    May 8, 2015 at 6:41 pm

    @Baud:
    Gee, I don’t know. Carson was defending against Hewitt’s suggestion that since he lacked knowledge or experience of foreign policy, among other areas, he was no better prepared for the Presidency than that bumbler Obama. So for him, this wasn’t about being gracious towards Obama.

  52. 52.

    Tree With Water

    May 8, 2015 at 6:42 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler: I would like to have seen Chaplin say that to a surviving American combat infantryman of WW2.

  53. 53.

    Pogonip

    May 8, 2015 at 6:43 pm

    @WereBear: Go for it! “The closet…the final frontier…”

  54. 54.

    bemused

    May 8, 2015 at 6:43 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    No can do. When I get those types of cards, my eyes glaze over & I never remember what they said later. I’m more of a someecard type but not quite right for an auntie to give.

  55. 55.

    p.a.

    May 8, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    @Amir Khalid: I’ve seen the Japanese invasion of China in 1937 posited as the true start of WW2.

  56. 56.

    Cacti

    May 8, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    @Tree With Water:

    Pitching this job-wrecking runaway train at Nike World HQ is demonstration enough that some of what the president’s opponents say about his arrogance is not misplaced

    So Charlie agrees that the President is uppity?

    Nice.

  57. 57.

    Aleta

    May 8, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    @bemused:

    “It is not down in any map; true places never are.”
    Herman Melville

  58. 58.

    bemused

    May 8, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    @WereBear:

    That or best wishes. I am always searching for something short but unique and failing, sigh.

    @Betty Cracker:

    I like that but I don’t think the young couple are old enough to appreciate it.

  59. 59.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    @shell: Gosh! I… want it…

  60. 60.

    Baud

    May 8, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    I’m sure there was self-interest involved, but that portion is still more gracious toward Obama than we’ve come to expect from the GOP.

  61. 61.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 6:48 pm

    @p.a.: I would agree. Hitler was champing at the bit at the same time, and already waging war on Germany’s own citizens.

  62. 62.

    bemused

    May 8, 2015 at 6:48 pm

    @Aleta:

    I’m going to have to write these good suggestions down for the future!

  63. 63.

    skerry

    May 8, 2015 at 6:49 pm

    @WereBear: Interesting article. I forwarded the link to my daughter.

    She would be devastated if anything untoward happened to poor Pico. He is a lovely, gray Norwegian Forest cat that she rescued from the mean streets of Baltimore. His mother was either dumped or escaped from her home and had kittens under the porch of a friend. He is one of the friendliest cats I have ever known.

  64. 64.

    Germy Shoemangler

    May 8, 2015 at 6:49 pm

    @Tree With Water: He’s speaking to Germans, telling them not to follow dictators like Hitler.

    My father was a rifleman in WWII. Battle of the Bulge and P.O.W.

    He loved Chaplin.

    He probably would have hated the auto-tuning, though.

  65. 65.

    NotMax

    May 8, 2015 at 6:51 pm

    Good news about one pizza joint.

    Since that first pay-it-forward slice, Rosa’s has provided nearly 15,000 pizza slices to needy Philadelphians. Source

  66. 66.

    Mandalay

    May 8, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    @Baud:

    The other two things, while probably lies, are understandable lies.

    They are not lies, but they are huge red flags when describing company performance.

    When all you have to brag about is revenue and cash flow you are clearly avoiding discussion of two aspects of company performance that are far more important: stock price and profitability. And Fiorina doesn’t want to talk about those at all, nor does she like discussing that she was fired for her poor performance.

    It’s a bit like bragging that you were captain of the college swimming team, but failing to mention that you never graduated. She is treading a fine line between putting lipstick on a pig and outright deceit.

    In terms of running for president, Fiorina is a failure and a fraud.

  67. 67.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 6:55 pm

    @skerry: Oh, I know about Wegies! My dearly beloved James Bond was one (lost him at age 18 last fall) and our Olwyn, Miss Princess Pumpkin Pants, is devoted to Mr WereBear.

  68. 68.

    Phylllis

    May 8, 2015 at 7:04 pm

    @shell: Tootsie reference for the win!

  69. 69.

    PurpleGirl

    May 8, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    @skerry: Yes, of course prayers for Pico. Poor kitty.

  70. 70.

    Cacti

    May 8, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    @Mandalay:

    When all you have to brag about is revenue and cash flow you are clearly avoiding discussion of two aspects of company performance that are far more important: stock price and profitability. And Fiorina doesn’t want to talk about those at all, nor does she like discussing that she was fired for her poor performance.

    This.

    When you merge two Fortune 500 companies, total revenues should increase substantially.

    But bigger isn’t better if you make yourself less profitable than you were pre-merger, and that’s Failorina did at HP.

  71. 71.

    Corner Stone

    May 8, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    @Howard Beale IV: What do you think the ISDS is?

  72. 72.

    Shana

    May 8, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    @bemused: This is what I always say “If everything goes perfectly at your wedding you have no good stories to tell later.”

  73. 73.

    Amir Khalid

    May 8, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    @efgoldman:
    Maybe I’m just being pessimistic, but —
    “I’m sorry to have to break the news to everyone that we won’t be getting married after all. You see, we saw bemused’s card for the wedding shower, and then we got to thinking …”

  74. 74.

    Mandalay

    May 8, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    @Mandalay: …and here’s more deceitful bullshit from Fiorina:

    Only in the United States of America can a young woman start as a secretary and work to become Chief Executive of one of the largest technology companies in the world

    Well she may have started as a secretary, but that carefully masks her privileged upbringing. Her father was a Deputy AG, taught law at Duke, and was a judge on the US Court of Appeals. And Fiorina graduated from Stanford. She only became a secretary after she dropped out of law school. And her choice of husband hardly hurt her chances of ultimately becoming successful.

    I understand that you have to present yourself in the best possible light when seeking the presidency, but when you distort reality as much as Fiorina does in her campaign you are not that different to an outright liar.

  75. 75.

    bemused

    May 8, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Ha! Good one but I’m going to go with, May all your days be celebrations. Seems safe enough without being sickening or flippant.

    They better be sure because they decided to skip all the wedding/church hooplah (some family were driving them nuts) & got married at the courthouse with immediate family so the shower is after the fact and a reception next month.

  76. 76.

    skerry

    May 8, 2015 at 7:15 pm

    @bemused: Gawd, I wish my daughter would do that. She’s getting married in July. Weddings have gotten out of hand. It is such an industry now.

  77. 77.

    bemused

    May 8, 2015 at 7:15 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    lol, I’m really not that much of curmudgeon. I just can’t stand card company generated syrupy, gooey messages that seem forced and trite.

    One of my favorite birthday cards was a snow white kind of figure on front and message inside was, Are you a good bitch or a bad bitch?

  78. 78.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    Over the course of about 8 months, Jeremy set commitments with Stickk to avoid pron altogether. And did it work? “I had a 100% success rate with Stickk, it worked remarkably,” he said. “It’s difficult to explain why, perhaps the notion of my money being donated to some horrendous cause like the American Republican Party, perhaps the knowledge of how disappointed I would be if I failed. …It was the pinnacle of commitment and I really hate failing at a commitment that I value.”

    Can Online Apps Change Behavior?

    Italics added, mine.

  79. 79.

    ruemara

    May 8, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    @Cacti: Well, he does refuse to do what presidents Pierce, Warren, Stein, Hartmann, Grayson et al want. So darned uppity.

  80. 80.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    @bemused: They better be sure because they decided to skip all the wedding/church hooplah (some family were driving them nuts) & got married at the courthouse with immediate family so the shower is after the fact and a reception next month.

    Sounds like they are on the right track. Say so!

    And both my weddings (18 years and widowed, 14 and counting with Mr WereBear) were low key, inexpensive, contained some idiosyncratic touches, and were remembered by the participants as one of the best weddings ever.

  81. 81.

    bemused

    May 8, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    @skerry:

    I hear you. Oldest kid got married in Las Vegas with family and friends. Easy peasy. Another kid’s wedding was at an old German hall with woodsy decor, no minister, an officiant, friends’ band, polkas along with rock and loads of fun. So many people said it was the best wedding they’d been to.

    I really like how weddings have become very individual to the couples taste and not cookie cutter like 30-40 years ago.

  82. 82.

    bemused

    May 8, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    @WereBear:

    Exactly. Those weddings are the best and most remembered.

  83. 83.

    Mike J

    May 8, 2015 at 7:23 pm

    @sharl:

    “During Carly’s tenure at HP, she doubled revenue, tripled innovation, and quadrupled cash flow

    Doubling revenue is not inconsistent with cutting profits to 1/3rd of previous. Many more dollars passed through HP under her reign, but they got to keep fewer of them.

  84. 84.

    SiubhanDuinne

    May 8, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    @bemused:

    What the heck can I write in a blank card for a wedding shower that isn’t cloying and sentimental?

    No such thing as a wedding shower that isn’t cloying and sentimental.

    Oh.

    I’d write something like “Wishing you many years of happiness” and leave it at that.

  85. 85.

    MomSense

    May 8, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    @WereBear:

    Great post. I finally found a doctor who listens to me. It’s a wonderful thing.

    I haven’t been on the blog much so I may have missed Violet but just want to check in and see if anyone here has “seen” her lately. I remember that she was really exasperated by the construction project next door. Hope she is doing well.

  86. 86.

    geg6

    May 8, 2015 at 7:26 pm

    I’ve got to stay off Book of Faces. Some idiot from high school is screaming about how we need a Christian president. I pointed out that we have one. She said his actions disprove his Christianity. I asked for her evidence. She says asking for evidence makes me an asshole. This is just one of the many reasons I am an atheist.

  87. 87.

    Shana

    May 8, 2015 at 7:26 pm

    @Steeplejack: We found that one of our locals, the one that delivers, doesn’t have egg fu young on the menu either but if you ask they will make it. Worth a try.

  88. 88.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 7:27 pm

    @MomSense: Thanks so much!

    I love writing about a new subject in a new style.

    Don’t get me wrong, I adore dem kitties and forsee many happy posts to come, but this is an outlet that was not only begging for expression, it seems to have struck a chord with many people out there.

    I’m tickled by that.

    I saw Violet not long ago. Will be looking for her now!

  89. 89.

    MomSense

    May 8, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    @WereBear:

    Thank you!

  90. 90.

    Cacti

    May 8, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    @ruemara:

    Well, he does refuse to do what presidents Pierce, Warren, Stein, Hartmann, Grayson et al want. So darned uppity.

    You forgot presidents Schultz, Maddow, Hayes, and Sanders.

  91. 91.

    Amir Khalid

    May 8, 2015 at 7:32 pm

    @geg6:
    Console yourself by taking many photos and shooting much video of Koda and Lovey together, and then sharing with the gang.

  92. 92.

    bemused

    May 8, 2015 at 7:32 pm

    @geg6:

    Did you ask her if GW provided proof he was Christian and what that proof was?

  93. 93.

    FlipYrWhig

    May 8, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    @Mandalay:

    It’s maybe not the things that you and I want accomplished, but in terms of fundamentally changing this nation and putting it on a different footing? I think he’s done quite a masterful job.

    Uh, this is Ben Carson saying that Obama has done a masterful job… of fucking up the country beyond recognition.

  94. 94.

    danielx

    May 8, 2015 at 7:34 pm

    Another catch from Brother Pierce, wherein which we discover that Dinesh D’Souza’s grasp on this whole “convicted felon on parole deal” is a mite tenuous.

    Although the judge’s knowledge of the concept appears to be tolerably firm.

  95. 95.

    shortstop

    May 8, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    @Mandalay:

    Carson is hopelessly unqualified to be president, but the man is not an Uncle Tom. Good for him.

    Sister, please. He goes around saying that Obamacare is worse than slavery was. That’s some high-value Uncle Tomming and nothing but.

    OT, too bad BG isn’t around. For the next five minutes, I’m drinking a cortado in my old (his current) neighborhood.

  96. 96.

    Steeplejack

    May 8, 2015 at 7:41 pm

    @efgoldman:

    It’s relatively close to where I’m going, so no biggie. And it is relatively close to your daughter’s place down by the Italian Store. And if I pick it up myself I can speed home with no detours or delays.

  97. 97.

    shortstop

    May 8, 2015 at 7:48 pm

    Let’s tell wedding stories. A friend of ours (no, really) got unbelievably loaded at his friends’ wedding and decided it would be killer bee to take pictures of his dick using the disposable cameras the happy couple had left on each table (yes, this was once A Thing, youngsters). Unfortunately for him, the very bottom of his tie appeared in several photos. The bride’s mother spent an evening successfully looking for that tie in official wedding photos so as to identify the starring pen.is.

  98. 98.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    May 8, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    @Tree With Water: e president’s opponents say about his arrogance is not misplaced…. and the president should be ashamed to lend his name to it. And, no, the Affordable Care Act and the minimum wage and Lilly Ledbetter doesn’t buy you enough credulity from the American public to pretend that Nike will now turn into Ben and Jerry’s just because you tell the company to do so.

    I love Pierce, but when John Cleese delivered his “besides roads, and aqueducts, and wine, and public order, what have the Romans ever done for us?” line, he knew he was joking.

  99. 99.

    Steeplejack

    May 8, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    @Shana:

    I seem to remember from years back—although I have partially blocked the traumatic memory—that when I asked about egg fu yung at my usual place I got a hard look as if I had asked about chop suey. I thought they might actually bum-rush me out the door.

  100. 100.

    shortstop

    May 8, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    Let’s tell wedding stories. A friend of ours (no, really) got unbelievably loaded at his friends’ wedding and decided it would be killer bee to take pictures of his dick using the disposable cameras the happy couple had left on each table (yes, this was once A Thing, youngsters). Unfortunately for him, the very bottom of his tie appeared in several photos. The bride’s mother spent an evening successfully looking for that tie in official wedding photos so as to identify the starring peepee.

  101. 101.

    GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)

    May 8, 2015 at 8:02 pm

    @Betty Cracker:
    Congratulations. The Mrs. and I hit 20 on Monday. She’ll be out of town.

  102. 102.

    Amir Khalid

    May 8, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    @shortstop:
    Among my people, there is never any concern about what drunken wedding guests might get up to.

  103. 103.

    bemused

    May 8, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    @shortstop:

    Well, that was certainly a wedding no one would forget.

  104. 104.

    Betty Cracker

    May 8, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    @shortstop: OMFG, that’s hilarious!

    Mine don’t compare to that. But the town drunk (a female) showed up at our wedding, and she (the town drunk) brought her teenage daughter dressed in her (the town drunk’s) wedding dress from 20 years before. She thought hey, it’s a wedding, so what better place to wear a wedding dress!

    Then she got drunk and kept running into a wall about two feet to the left of a hallway entrance when attempting to find the ladies’ room. She actually fell on her ass after the third try and had to be carried home. Open bar!

  105. 105.

    Amir Khalid

    May 8, 2015 at 8:19 pm

    @efgoldman:
    A Malay wedding tends not to offer its guests an opportunity to get drunk, if you know what I mean.

  106. 106.

    PurpleGirl

    May 8, 2015 at 8:19 pm

    @WereBear: That is a lovely story. Thanks for the link. Wishing you and Mr. WearBear a long and happy life together.

  107. 107.

    Mandalay

    May 8, 2015 at 8:22 pm

    @shortstop:

    He goes around saying that Obamacare is worse than slavery was.

    Link?

  108. 108.

    Hal

    May 8, 2015 at 8:23 pm

    I got a new job the hospital I work at and start in two weeks. Better pay and Monday through Friday days. No more 3 to 11 and overnight shifts for me! I’m so excited to get back on a regular work sschedule. Nothing more depressing than driving in to work at 11pm on Friday night past all these people out at bars and coffee shops hanging with their friends.

  109. 109.

    PurpleGirl

    May 8, 2015 at 8:25 pm

    @geg6: I have FB page ONLY because I needed it to read the FB pages from the kitten cams I watch. Then, recently a niece found me. Now I have to update my page and connect with her once in a while. It’s a time sink, it really is.

  110. 110.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    @PurpleGirl: Thanks so much! So far, so good :)

  111. 111.

    JPL

    May 8, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    Well I already flunked mother-in-law 101 and they aren’t going to be married until next year. I decided not to go gown shopping and now had to cancel plans for a brunch at a restaurant that we are thinking about for the rehearsal dinner.

  112. 112.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 8:29 pm

    @Hal: Why I got out of retail, in a nutshell.

  113. 113.

    JPL

    May 8, 2015 at 8:29 pm

    @WereBear: Your wedding was beautiful!

  114. 114.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 8:32 pm

    @JPL: Thanks! It’s all about the good time. For everyone!

  115. 115.

    Cacti

    May 8, 2015 at 8:42 pm

    @Mandalay:

    Here you go

    Carson didn’t say it was worse than slavery…

    Just the worst thing since slavery, and worse for the country than 9/11.

  116. 116.

    SiubhanDuinne

    May 8, 2015 at 8:48 pm

    Well fuck. Just learned that a dear friend of 27+ years and a valued mentor has died. Not unexpected — he had been suffering from Parkinson’s and probably a lot of other stuff for years now — but it’s still a blow. He was Jewish (not very observant, I think), so will probably be buried before Sunday. But I hope there will be a big noisy memorial service at some point, so those of us who proudly call ourselves “Canadian Studies Officers” can have a chance to pay him tribute.

    RIP, Norm, my friend.

  117. 117.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 8:51 pm

    @Cacti:

    The trade deal is unpopular. Obama needs Democrats to provide Republicans cover or Republicans in the House won’t back it either. Democrats don’t want to provide Republicans cover because they want to use the unpopular trade deal against Republicans.

    Boehner wants Clinton to come out for it because that neutralizes the issue for 2016- she can’t attack the GOP candidate on the trade deal if she backs it.

    The President is asking Democrats for a lot and he’s not giving Democrats anything in return. Labor and environmental protections in a trade deal that will provide little or no benefit to US workers are not “a concession”. They’re the absolute minimum he could offer.

    I hope they hold out and get something in return. They’d be insane not to. He’s not only asking them to back a deal they don’t like, he;s asking them to give up any advantage they have on trade with Republicans in the next election.

    What was the point of going to Nike, of all places? He chose the company that is famous for horrendous labor practices and has a grossly overcompensated CEO?

    The White House, for its part, is making the case that visiting Nike — famous precisely because of its embrace of globalization — makes perfect sense. The president is expected to argue that the trade deal will reduce prices for American consumers by cutting tariffs on things like imported Nike sportswear.

    The deal isn’t going to create any manufacturing jobs, Cacti. At best it’s neutral for US workers and at worst it creates a “level playing field” that is LOWER. It may provide some agricultural jobs- it has provisions that benefit certain agricultural interests, but no one will talk about those jobs because they’re terrible.

  118. 118.

    Tree With Water

    May 8, 2015 at 8:52 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler: Had I had met your father and he was amenable, we could have spent hours in conversation about his experience. I did that one pleasant afternoon years ago with an Ardennes survivor, kicking back and drinking beer with a 101st Airborne trooper who had been at Bastogne. Likewise with a friend’s father who had been aboard the hard luck Intrepid when she took a kamikaze in waters off the Philippines. I still own a naval bag and ammo box that belonged to a neighbor when I was a kid, and he was aboard the Lexington when she was sunk in the Battle of the Coral Sea. And I am curious, though, “Germy” – which army took your old man prisoner?

  119. 119.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 9:01 pm

    @Cacti:

    You know, it’s just really tough to take, Obama dismissing fair trade as “politics”. He knows Democrats run on fair trade, right? That’s the difference between Republicans and Democrats on trade.

  120. 120.

    WereBear

    May 8, 2015 at 9:01 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: My sympathies. May your tribute come to pass.

  121. 121.

    Germy Shoemangler

    May 8, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    @Tree With Water: German

    He was 92 pounds when he was liberated.

  122. 122.

    Corner Stone

    May 8, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    @Kay:

    The deal isn’t going to create any manufacturing jobs, Cacti. At best it’s neutral for US workers and at worst it creates a “level playing field” that is LOWER.

    There’s no way it can be neutral when it exports wages to places that work for $.56 an hour.
    There is simply no way any rational defense of the TPP exists on the D side. Why is Obama courting R’s and trash talking D’s?

  123. 123.

    SiubhanDuinne

    May 8, 2015 at 9:11 pm

    @WereBear:

    Thanks, WB. I thought I had got used to people dying, but this one really chops off a huge part of my career (e.g., my life over the past quarter century). Not to mention the fact that we completely bonded over baseball. I’m kind of surprised at how devastated I feel.

  124. 124.

    Elizabelle

    May 8, 2015 at 9:12 pm

    It’s probably afternoon in Hawaii. Or something.

  125. 125.

    Elizabelle

    May 8, 2015 at 9:13 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Very sorry to hear of the passing of your friend.

    Hugs.

    You must tell some good stories at the eventual memorial service.

  126. 126.

    JPL

    May 8, 2015 at 9:13 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m so sorry.

  127. 127.

    Shana

    May 8, 2015 at 9:13 pm

    @Steeplejack: Fair enough. Just a suggestion….

  128. 128.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 9:24 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Well, there’s two parts to that, right? I agree with the leveling effect but the way it stays nuetral is if US companies have fewer barriers to sell in other countries. That could make it nuetral instead of harmful, if it’s a (relatively) high wage company and they intend to stay in the US, for various reasons.

    I think he believes this is “progressive free trade”. What he doesn’t seem to be fully aware of is that is exactly what we were told last time. This is identical to what Democratic free traders have said for the last 20 years. It’s almost word for word. We don’t even enforce labor regulations and protections in this country. We’re now going to enforce them in Vietnam? Is there anyone outside DC who believes that?

  129. 129.

    SiubhanDuinne

    May 8, 2015 at 9:25 pm

    @Elizabelle:
    @JPL:

    Many thanks. There are about 20 of us across the U.S. who benefitted from his wisdom and helped turn us into effective Canadian Studies officers back when there was such a thing. I do believe many of us will want to show up at the memorial service, whenever it is, and pay our tributes.

  130. 130.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 9:32 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    What they say, Cornerstone, is the following: because these other countries have no labor protections, it “levels tha playing field” if they have some labor protections because that halts the race to the bottom.

    What the other side says in response to that is “that doesn’t do anything for US workers”. It might make it slightly better for workers in other countries, globally, we guess, there’s a slightly higher bottom, but there’s still this huge hole in his argument, which is when he starts on mushy trickle down theories. That’s when it veers into small businesses getting bigger and all the fanciful projections :)

  131. 131.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 9:37 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    The part that is interesting to me is how Boehner is sweating. I don’t think he can get House Republicans to support it if Democrats won’t join them. He’s very transparently turning that around and saying Obama can’t get Democrats, but I think Obama getting (some) Democrats is absolutely essential for Boehner. Republicans are not going to give Democrats this to use against them.

  132. 132.

    Germy Shoemangler

    May 8, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    @Kay: Here’s what I don’t understand: Who came up with this free trade deal? Obama didn’t wake up one morning and dictate it to his staff. Someone else came up with it and sold it to Obama.

    Who?

  133. 133.

    Betty Cracker

    May 8, 2015 at 9:47 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler: Who benefits monetarily? Dollars to doughnuts, that’s the source.

  134. 134.

    Tree With Water

    May 8, 2015 at 9:52 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler: See, now I want to know his outfit (106th?). Assuming you haven’t already, I hope you commit to record what you recall him having told you. The library of congress, I believe, has a program which archives such memories. I think it’s kind of cool that a researcher (or interested amateur like me) might happen upon it a hundred years from now.

    In fact, let me give you an example. My friend’s father, Bill, who was aboard the Intrepid, told me the following: His station was in the ship’s hospital, that happened to overlook a gun crew that was annihilated by the kamikaze. It was manned by the stewards, who were black sailors. He heard them crying for their mothers in their agonizing death throes- he told me they all looked like strips of fried bacon. Another officer in the hospital took in the same scene and said, “Well, at least they’re only niggers”. Bill told me it took every ounce of self control he possessed to maintain his composure. Now, I actually shared that remembrance with an administrator of the Intrepid, which is currently docked in NYC as a museum. He acknowledged it, and I assume after double-checking Bill’s story with the ship’s registry during the battle. Stories like that are little nuggets of gold to historians, professional and armchair. And we’re all historian’s, whether a person thinks in such terms, or not. Or so it seems to me, anyway..

  135. 135.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 9:53 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    It’s been in the works since 2005. There have been interim bilateral trade deals that added countries to the list of parties that wanted to be in on the Big Deal, so it’s gotten more complex since 2005.

    They’ve been trying to pass fast track for it since 2012.

    There’s always been free trade Democrats and because they;re allied with business and Republicans they usually get what they want. The difference is they’ve carried the day for the last 20 years and people haven’t seen any benefits. He’s having trouble selling free trade this time because it;s been the dominant side for 20 years. Free trade “the reality” is harming free trade “the theory” :)

  136. 136.

    Cacti

    May 8, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    @Kay:

    So, Kay, how does any of what you said excuse Charlie Pierce for jumping on the knee
    jerk racism bandwagon?

  137. 137.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 10:00 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    Also? Saying “this is a progressive trade deal because it includes labor and environmental protections” ignores the fact that people who insisted on those labor and environmental protections are the very same people he’s fighting with. There wouldn’t be any labor and environmental protections without the opposition- that’s what fair traders do- they oppose until they get labor and environmental protections.

    He’s essentially taking credit for the work that Sherrod Brown has done the last twenty years on making trade deals less horrible, while attacking Sherrod Brown.

  138. 138.

    liberal

    May 8, 2015 at 10:05 pm

    Seems like a good time to remember that it was really the Soviets who destroyed the Wehrmacht.

  139. 139.

    liberal

    May 8, 2015 at 10:06 pm

    @Kay: what protections?

  140. 140.

    Corner Stone

    May 8, 2015 at 10:13 pm

    @Kay:

    I agree with the leveling effect but the way it stays nuetral is if US companies have fewer barriers to sell in other countries. That could make it nuetral instead of harmful, if it’s a (relatively) high wage company and they intend to stay in the US, for various reasons.

    Where the hell does anyone think we’re going to be net exporting goods to after TPP?
    For Obama or any blind supporters who think we can sell goods to lower wage areas…
    This is wage exportation. Period.

  141. 141.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 10:20 pm

    @Cacti:

    I don’t have any problem with the President fighting for his trade deal. I think it’s crazy for him to believe they can’t fight back. Sure they can. The truth is, if there hadn’t been opposition to the last crappy trade deal, this one wouldn’t have labor and environmental protections baked in, so therefore (theoretically!) enforceable. That’s new. They got that. I hope they get more. This is the way they’ll get more:

    “Phil Knight, head of Nike, is now worth $23 billion because America’s trade policies encourage companies like Nike to create and move jobs outside of the U.S.,” he wrote. “The 23rd-richest American is one more symbol of the kind of inequality that results from outsourcing enabled and encouraged by these trade policies. Workers here lose (or never get) jobs; workers there are paid squat; a few people become vastly, unimaginably wealthy.”

    I think they should hold out for the new overtime rule, myself. It’s not like all the concessions have to come within this trade deal.

  142. 142.

    Cacti

    May 8, 2015 at 10:23 pm

    @Kay:

    And all of this makes it okay for Charlie Pierce to agree with Republicans that the President is uppity because?

  143. 143.

    Steeplejack

    May 8, 2015 at 10:28 pm

    @efgoldman:

    I fired up the A.C. this week, even though the weather was fairly mild, because of the pollen. I’m not allergic, but the sheer volume of particulate coming through the open windows was getting to me.

  144. 144.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 10:30 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Because “progressive free traders” have an “efficiency” theory. They think the US will benefit on trade with higher-level production that requires more sophisticated processes and intellectual property, and lower level work will go off-shore. In other words, it isn;t worth it for us to try to keep lower-level work here- they can have it. We’ll focus on higher-level and dominate there.

    Look, that’s the theory. I’m not endorsing it. I’m just saying they have one :)

    I don’t think there will be a “great sucking sound” because that already happened. It can’t happen again. All that work is gone.

  145. 145.

    tybee

    May 8, 2015 at 10:33 pm

    @p.a.:

    the marco polo bridge incident

  146. 146.

    Corner Stone

    May 8, 2015 at 10:39 pm

    @Kay: There’s nothing wrong with being efficient. But it should be an honest version of it.
    Our resident Apple mega share holder Martin makes the argument that those jobs were going away anyway due to automation. Well, yeah. But I’d like to see them not transition first to someone in China who would rather jump off a roof than continue their employment as same.
    My argument is we are not being honest. Obama certainly isn’t.
    Nike is not being honest. How much are they selling that Air Jordan sneaker for?

  147. 147.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 10:45 pm

    @Cacti:

    The President spent the day agreeing with Republicans on how Democrats are “protecting the status quo” and “building moats” so I’m not sure Pierce “agreeing with Republicans” is the main issue.

    I just find it incredibly dispiriting to hear Obama reverting to the “protectionist” line about people who were right last time. They were right. Everything they said would happen after NAFTA did happen. We heard all the “moats” and “pulling up drawbridges” then too.

    I’m pleased that the trade deal will incorporate labor and environmental protections, but the idea that the 60 US corporations who were in on the initial negotiations put those in is ludicrous. The one and only reason they’re in there is they have to get it past certain Democrats in Congress. You know what labor and environmental protections are called? “Non trade barriers”. They’re considered a barrier to the wonders of TRULY free trade, where there are no protections at all! Those were hard fought, and labor and liberals are the people who got them.

  148. 148.

    liberal

    May 8, 2015 at 10:51 pm

    @Kay: They shouldn’t make deals. They should just vote against it.

  149. 149.

    Steeplejack

    May 8, 2015 at 10:51 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Also, from what I have read—which, admittedly, is not a whole lot—Germany seems to be making the transition to automation and higher-level manufacturing without all the job destruction that we have experienced here.

  150. 150.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Nike is not being honest.

    How so? Nike can’t reliably predict they will create TEN THOUSAND jobs as a result of this trade deal? :)

    That’ll be the first unenforceable provision of the deal prior to the trade deal. The ten thousand jobs.

  151. 151.

    liberal

    May 8, 2015 at 10:55 pm

    @Kay: as Dean Baker is fond of saying, we have no real idea what any politician actually believes.

  152. 152.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 10:56 pm

    @liberal:

    I think it probably really rankles to give Republicans political cover because Republicans actually want it. Republicans get their trade deal with no political cost at all. It really could not be less appealing for liberal Congressional Democrats.

  153. 153.

    liberal

    May 8, 2015 at 10:59 pm

    @Kay: it will be very interesting to see how they vote.

  154. 154.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 11:00 pm

    @liberal:

    I’ve listened to him thru this whole thing and I think he actually believes this is some “new progressive” trade theory. It sounds exactly the same as the old “free trade” Democrats to me. He’s right in a way- free trade HAS been bipartisan the last 20 years. Where we disagree is I don’t think that’s a good thing.

  155. 155.

    Corner Stone

    May 8, 2015 at 11:01 pm

    @Kay: Nike may bring some amount of that 990,000 workers back to the US.
    But…probably not.
    Obama should not be trying this bullshit on. Who is he fooling?

  156. 156.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 11:03 pm

    @liberal:

    Well, but you know what they’ll do. They’ll protect the Democrats who can’t vote for it- OH, MI, PA- and they’ll scare up just enough without that group.

  157. 157.

    Kay

    May 8, 2015 at 11:13 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Nike is going to do “advanced engineering” in the US. Again, CS, this is the “efficiency theory”

    Vietnamese people make sneakers and we make whatever the hell Nike plans to engineer that is “advanced”.

    It’s not completely outlandish. You know this, but producing something simple can be “:advanced engineering” because of the process they use. My middle son was offered a job in a super duper space age facility and they make Coke bottles. It isn’t the product that’s advanced. It’s the process. They need higher-skilled people (and fewer of them) because it’s a more complex mechanized process, but it’s a simple product. He doesn’t make the bottles. He maintains the machines that make the bottles.

  158. 158.

    dogwood

    May 8, 2015 at 11:43 pm

    @Kay:
    I’m completely puzzled by the President’s seeming surprise at the opposition from congressional democrats. They don’t support him when they agree with him so why on earth would they acquiesce when they don’t. Once Obama saw that congressional democrats were going to sit back and let republicans set the narrative for the Iranian nuclear deal or even worse side with them, he should have known that trying to sell a trade deal would be a fool’s errand. Hell, when they wouldn’t close Gitmo he should have got a clue. I live in a highly unionized community, and here union members are overwhelming republican, so the politics of this are irrelevant.

  159. 159.

    Kay

    May 9, 2015 at 12:16 am

    @dogwood:

    Well, I disagree on the “politics are irrelevant”. Trade doesn’t matter in every or even most states but it matters a lot in some. The President certainly didn’ t believe the politics were irrelevant when he used NAFTA against Clinton in Ohio and again in the general in ’08 against McCain.

    This fight predates this President. There are fair trade Democrats and there are free trade Democrats and Republicans. That’s the divide.

    The President is asking Democrats to support a deal that they don’t support, will hurt them politcally, and it’s a deal that Republicans overwhelmingly support. He’s putting them at a political disadvantage for what is a policy win for Republicans., and he’s offering them absolutely nothing, unless he thinks labor and environmental protections are a “concession” to Democrats. I don’t think labor and environmental protections are a gift. I think they should be a given with a Democratic President.

    He can do this, if he wants. He can continue to insist there is no difference btwn Republicans and Democrats on trade and it’s all “political” and trumped up, but that’s a fairly radical departure from what Democrats have been saying for the last 20 years, so he probably can’t expect Congressional Democrats to go along with it. It’s also a departure from what he said in ’08.

    He supposedly has all the Republicans. He shouldn’t need a whole lot of Democrats anyway, which is probably good because I’m not sure it’s great for Democrats to be holding up the Nike CEO as their middle class mascot.

  160. 160.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    May 9, 2015 at 12:31 am

    @Kay:

    Your comments in this thread have been very informative (as usual).

  161. 161.

    Kay

    May 9, 2015 at 12:35 am

    @dogwood:

    I’m fairly confident they’ll get their trade deal. US business interests have wanted it since 2005 and I don’t imagine they’re going to stop until they get it.

    There’s really only 2 questions: how many Democrats support it (we’ll know soon) and whether it actually benefits any ordinary people. We’ll know that in about ten years. I sure hope it does, but all I’m hearing is a whole lot of trickle down theory repackaged as “progressive” mixed in with some promises of labor and environmental protections.

  162. 162.

    Kay

    May 9, 2015 at 12:46 am

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    Thanks.

  163. 163.

    dogwood

    May 9, 2015 at 12:54 am

    @Kay:
    I said the politics are irrelevant in my union town, but I have no doubt of their overall relevance elsewhere. And I think you misread me or I communicated poorly. I’m not supporting the trade deal. I’m merely baffled at the President’s expectation that dems would support him. I think this is politically and policy wise a big blunder by the President. Nonetheless, my disagreements and disappointments when it comes to Obama are dwarfed by the overall disdain I have for congressional dems in general. Any political party that allows crackpots to establish the narrative for every event and policy decision isn’t worthy of much respect.

  164. 164.

    Tree With Water

    May 9, 2015 at 1:38 am

    @dogwood: You place the lion’s share of responsibility for crack-potted political narratives on congressional democrats, rather than the president who even yet counsels us to “look forward, not back”? Even if you’re correct, it’s not by much.

  165. 165.

    Denali

    May 9, 2015 at 2:47 pm

    @geg6,

    I’ve decided to avoid political or religious conversations on FaceBook. Dangerous territory. Stick to owl videos.

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