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You are here: Home / Climate Change / How about that weather? / Rejuvenation through vampirism: the medical ethics are not getting easier

Rejuvenation through vampirism: the medical ethics are not getting easier

by Tim F|  May 20, 20151:02 pm| 51 Comments

This post is in: How about that weather?, Recipes, Science & Technology, Fucked-up-edness, Get off my grass you damned kids

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For those of you paying attention to either the biomedical literature or to this here blog, it won’t be news that researchers can reverse aging. And it’s easy! At least it is in mice. Just transfuse older rodents with the blood of much younger mice and it’s like that segment of the Twilight Zone movie. The ramifications of this work were obvious and a little queasy*, but it helped that researchers identified a protein called GDF11 that might offer the same benefit in pill or injection form, no young blood required.

Or maybe not.

Egerman [and co-workers] undertook a careful analysis of the function of GDF11 in young and aged mice. They report the opposite of what Sinha et al. reported, that overexpression of GDF11 results in impaired satellite cell function and reduced muscle regeneration. Notably, systemic delivery of GDF11 into old mice had no effect, whereas in young mice muscle regeneration was delayed due to reduced expansion and differentiation of satellite cells.

Meanwhile the overall benefit of perfusing young blood into old rats has held up pretty well.

Ten bucks to be a fly on the wall at Mayhew Insurance while they debate how to cover it.

(*) Count all the people who would prefer not to suffer from old age. Now multiply it by how much young blood each person would need. Factor in just how badly (some) people want to keep their youth and vigor, or get it back. Now consider that the group who wants the blood has all of society’s wealth and influence whereas those who would provide it have none.

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51Comments

  1. 1.

    c u n d gulag

    May 20, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    I’m sure that Dick (Of Death) Cheney has been using the blood of children for decades.

    That’s why he was able to last until a heart transplant was available.
    The new heart was a waste, since he still has not and atom of heart and empathy in him!

    That heart should have gone to someone who’s a bit more empathetic.
    But, then, a house plant has more empathy than Dick Cheney.

  2. 2.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 20, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    The .01% will of course seek to take advantage of this new technique, thus becoming literal vampires, as opposed to figurative financial ones as they are now.

  3. 3.

    different-church-lady

    May 20, 2015 at 1:10 pm

    Just transfuse older rodents with the blood of much younger mice

    This sounds like a baby-boomer’s wet dream — stay forever young at the expense of those behind them!

  4. 4.

    Tim C.

    May 20, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    So…. into each generation a slayer is born. It’s time to find her.

  5. 5.

    Amir Khalid

    May 20, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    I know this isn’t a DougJ post, but I couldn’t help thinking of this song. Also, does this blood therapy make you sparkle?

  6. 6.

    Lurking Canadian

    May 20, 2015 at 1:16 pm

    Lady Bathory wasn’t wrong, she was just ahead of her time.

  7. 7.

    TG Chicago

    May 20, 2015 at 1:18 pm

    Another wrinkle (so to speak): those of us who donate blood generally do so to help folks who need it. And I’m not certain about blood, per se, but some folks have conditions that require regular infusions of platelets to survive. It would be a shame for blood to be taken away from these people to go to old rich folks.

    On the other hand, given that low-skill labor is steadily being off-shored and automated, maybe the rich 0.1% can “hire” young folks to bleed for them. I’m sure there are plenty of kids who could donate blood but currently don’t, and I’m sure they would do so for the right price.

    Actually, another thought: when the old mice get the young mouse blood, what happens to the old mouse blood? If you give it to a young mouse, does it advance aging? If not, then this actually could be a big benefit. Oldsters pay kids for their blood, oldsters get the kid blood while donating their old blood to the general stockpile, thus you’ll never again have a shortage of blood for emergencies and such. That’s a big “if not”, though.

  8. 8.

    MattF

    May 20, 2015 at 1:19 pm

    There’s a novel by Aldous Huxley, After Many a Summer Dies The Swan, that suggests there may be a little problem with rejuvenation, given the somewhat odd path of human evolution. But we shall see, I guess.

  9. 9.

    Gindy51

    May 20, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    @Lurking Canadian: First thing that popped into my mind.

  10. 10.

    MomSense

    May 20, 2015 at 1:23 pm

    All those cuts and scrapes I carefully cleaned and bandaged were all missed opportunities. If I had known I could have just skimmed a little fresh blood off the top for myself.

    Interesting science aside, what is the obsession with staying young forever? The amount of money spent on plastic surgery, cosmetic procedures, and research into this is nuts. If the point is to find treatments or cures for crippling and terrible diseases, that is noble but I suspect the real money is turning this into a cream, pill or injectable for the uber wealthy.

  11. 11.

    Brachiator

    May 20, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    @MomSense:

    The amount of money spent on plastic surgery, cosmetic procedures, and research into this is nuts. If the point is to find treatments or cures for crippling and terrible diseases, that is noble but I suspect the real money is turning this into a cream, pill or injectable for the uber wealthy.

    Of course, cosmetic surgery is just about looking young (or just weird after some surgeries), it is an illusion of youth.

    On the other hand, I encourage the uber wealthy to throw money away on this stuff as they have often done in the past. Surgeons who charge big bucks for tummy tucks have been able to do reconstructive surgery for the poor for free. This is an intelligent use of the market.

  12. 12.

    Belafon

    May 20, 2015 at 1:30 pm

    There you go, blaming capitalism. Shouldn’t those with money be able to buy the blood of those who don’t have money?

    ///

  13. 13.

    NonyNony

    May 20, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    @MomSense:

    Interesting science aside, what is the obsession with staying young forever?

    Getting old kind of sucks? I mean, it’s not enough to drive me to obsession, but if I could have an easy choice between feeling every single goddamn joint in my body ache when the weather changes vs. how my body felt when I was 20, it would kind of be a no-brainer. I wouldn’t mind having the body I had when I was 20-30 until I die at a ripe old age of 80-something rather than feeling my body slowly deteriorate as I age. Though if it comes at the cost of turning myself into a vampire on the (literal OR metaphorical) blood of my grandchildren count me out.

  14. 14.

    Mike J

    May 20, 2015 at 1:36 pm

    John Lewis Verified account @repjohnlewis

    54 years ago today, I was beaten along w/ several Freedom Riders as we attempted to enter the Montgomery bus station.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFdIRJ_UsAEzCd7.jpg

  15. 15.

    boatboy_srq

    May 20, 2015 at 1:37 pm

    @Belafon: Are you describing healthcare (immortality), or war? Because that line fits both pretty well, and the latter has been going on for millennia. Just sayin’…

    Where is Kosh when we need him?

  16. 16.

    trollhattan

    May 20, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    I think I just realized how we can clear up the wage gap among today’s youut.

  17. 17.

    WereBear

    May 20, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    @MomSense: Ascertaining rejuvenation processes is one avenue for treating those “crippling and terrible diseases.” But I’m sure this blood thing will turn out to have a terrible and unforeseen set of side effects that undercut the original promise.

    Because they always do.

  18. 18.

    peach flavored shampoo

    May 20, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    I think if Obamacare promised to cover these blood transfusions/theft/vampire parties, Dems would suddenly own the 60+ demographic.

  19. 19.

    raven

    May 20, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    Huh, I’m wearing waterproof bandages on my wounded finger and knee and putting a surgical glove on that hand all in an effort to keep the ocean water out as I trudge out to cast my bait in search of the wily reds and blues! It’s making me feel jung again!

  20. 20.

    Citizen Alan

    May 20, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    I am reminded of a Season 1 Babylon 5 episode in which a notorious alien “Dr. Mengele” type character who’d been on the run since her race lost a genocidal war they’d started showed up at the station offering an immortality formula. Supposedly, she wanted to redeem herself for the awful unethical experiments she’d overseen during the war. It turned out at the end that it wasn’t redemption but revenge — the formula required a significant quantity of a chemical that couldn’t be synthesized, just harvested from a living brain, with ten people dying for every one made immortal. Her hope was that the races that had defeated hers would “fall upon each other like wolves” and become as corrupt as her own race had.

  21. 21.

    trollhattan

    May 20, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    @raven:

    It’s making me feel jung again!

    One might say you’re losing your sense of self in the intoxication of Dionysian pursuits.

    Or, you’re goin’ fishin’. Either works for me, being at a desk and all.

  22. 22.

    Cermet

    May 20, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    I believe the research just showed that it regenerated muscle tissue but not organ tissue. Also, the issue of age related diseases wasn’t addressed either. Not sure it would help even in this manner with creatures already programmed to live 70+ years ver. the very, very short life span of a mouse.

  23. 23.

    Cluttered Mind

    May 20, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    @Citizen Alan: Her plan would have worked too, if not for Kosh blowing her up with all her research.

  24. 24.

    Brachiator

    May 20, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    This sounds like a baby-boomer’s wet dream — stay forever young at the expense of those behind them!

    If this stuff really pans out, the people most likely to benefit are people born now and the next generation, not baby-boomers.

    @WereBear:

    Ascertaining rejuvenation processes is one avenue for treating those “crippling and terrible diseases.” But I’m sure this blood thing will turn out to have a terrible and unforeseen set of side effects that undercut the original promise.

    In the future our robot masters will be happy to have a blood treatment that will let us serve them better.

  25. 25.

    srv

    May 20, 2015 at 2:19 pm

    What the hell else are all those unemployable young liberal arts hipsters supposed to do?

    At least this way, they can earn a living.

  26. 26.

    Valdivia

    May 20, 2015 at 2:21 pm

    A few months ago I was re-reading one of my favorite books of all time An Instance of the Fingerpost by Iain Pears and a good part of the book is about how they discovered blood transfusions back in the age of Cromwell (the second, not Thomas). A good deal of the discussion was about this exactly: the effect of new blood on a patient. Fascinating that we know now they weren’t so off the mark (though totally clueless about blood types etc initially)

  27. 27.

    boatboy_srq

    May 20, 2015 at 2:26 pm

    @WereBear: One positive side effect I can think of: there’d be a sudden, overwhelming pressure for worthwhile sex ed and for rational drug prevention/treatment programs: can’t have the Oldsters coming down with icky social ills or unexpected addictive tendencies. And I’ll bet you’d suddenly hear from the Reichwing about how worthwhile Death Panels are – because they’d rather have those than submit to all the Old Volks’ sudden intense interest in the sexual and controlled-substance health of the Sinful Youth.

  28. 28.

    Gravenstone

    May 20, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    Didn’t Hollywood make a movie to this effect, recently? Rather than blood, the rich purchased stole actual lifespan from the poors, with predictable corruption and explosions.

  29. 29.

    WereBear

    May 20, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    Time to share a favorite article:

    5 Reasons Immortality Would be Worse than Death

  30. 30.

    boatboy_srq

    May 20, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    @boatboy_srq: @Citizen Alan: [cough cough] check the link [cough]

  31. 31.

    raven

    May 20, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    @trollhattan: Dion fished too! I thought he spent all his time thinking up stuff like

    Now I love this girl I said-a Ruby is her name
    When this girl looks at me she just sets my soul aflame
    Whoa, oh, oh, oh, oh, I got some hugs and-a kisses, too
    Yeah and now I’m gonna give-a them all to you
    Now, listen, now Ruby, Ruby, when will you be mine?

  32. 32.

    boatboy_srq

    May 20, 2015 at 2:29 pm

    @Cluttered Mind: I’m beginning to feel positively unloved… well, unread at least…

  33. 33.

    Roger Moore

    May 20, 2015 at 2:32 pm

    @WereBear:

    But I’m sure this blood thing will turn out to have a terrible and unforeseen set of side effects that undercut the original promise.

    Yeah, like a novel blood-borne pathogen that infects the blood supply the way AIDS did before there were reliable tests. OTOH, if it winds up primarily killing off the super-rich, maybe that wouldn’t be such a bad thing.

  34. 34.

    WereBear

    May 20, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    @boatboy_srq: Sign me up! We’ll write the screenplay :)

  35. 35.

    WereBear

    May 20, 2015 at 2:36 pm

    @Roger Moore: Yes. I was also thinking along the lines of the conflict that must occur when old cells get this rather unbalanced infusion of stuff they weren’t expecting. What if it wound up as a sudden cascade of dysfunction? Might have a Shangri-La situation. Waiting in line at Starbucks and suddenly you are 119.

    I really wouldn’t want that.

  36. 36.

    Brachiator

    May 20, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    @boatboy_srq:

    One positive side effect I can think of: there’d be a sudden, overwhelming pressure for worthwhile sex ed and for rational drug prevention/treatment programs: can’t have the Oldsters coming down with icky social ills or unexpected addictive tendencies

    We’re already here, and people can’t deal with it. Consider the stories of increases in STDs in oldsters in part because V*agra was leading to more unprotected senior sex.

    Weird. Got moderated. Possibly because I spelled out the name of the wonder drug.

  37. 37.

    Brachiator

    May 20, 2015 at 2:54 pm

    @boatboy_srq:

    One positive side effect I can think of: there’d be a sudden, overwhelming pressure for worthwhile sex ed and for rational drug prevention/treatment programs: can’t have the Oldsters coming down with icky social ills or unexpected addictive tendencies

    We’re already here, and people can’t deal with it. Consider the stories of increases in STDs in oldsters in part because V*agra was leading to more unprotected senior sex.

    Weird. Got moderated. Possibly because I spelled out the name of the wonder drug. This is a second post attempt.

  38. 38.

    Tree With Water

    May 20, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    OK, I’m confused. Should I begin sucking blood from newborns, or not? Tim F., you need an editor, man..

  39. 39.

    MattF

    May 20, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    A story by Ursula LeGuin on immortality:

    http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-island-of-the-immortals/

  40. 40.

    Origuy

    May 20, 2015 at 3:06 pm

    Heinlein wrote about this, too, in his Lazarus Long stories. The Howard Families, a group of long-lived products of a 19th century breeding experiment aimed at lengthening lifespan, leave Earth rather than be captured by those trying to find their secret. They return after many years to find that artificial blood has been perfected which has a rejuvenating effect.

  41. 41.

    Valdivia

    May 20, 2015 at 3:17 pm

    @Tree With Water:

    hmm isn’t virgins or am I getting my mythology confused?

  42. 42.

    Drew

    May 20, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    @Gravenstone: That would be In Time.

  43. 43.

    David Hunt

    May 20, 2015 at 4:35 pm

    Ten bucks to be a fly on the wall at Mayhew Insurance while they debate how to cover it.

    Ten bucks won’t cover it. It’ll cost one pint of O Negative blood from someone under 25.

  44. 44.

    TG Chicago

    May 20, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    I also wonder what would happen if you took your own blood, a pint at a time, when you were young then froze it. Once you reach a certain age, you thaw out the blood and stick it back in.

  45. 45.

    msdc

    May 20, 2015 at 5:13 pm

    Sounds like we’ll all need to read Bug Jack Barron.

  46. 46.

    Pappenheimer

    May 20, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    On the plus side (for criminals) a quick exsanguination has got to be easier than than the Burke-and-Hare butchery of organlegging.

  47. 47.

    Quaker in a Basement

    May 20, 2015 at 6:38 pm

    @TG Chicago: And a new GOP plan for “saving Social Security” is born!

  48. 48.

    Manyakitty

    May 20, 2015 at 7:35 pm

    Post is tagged “Recipes.” Ha!

  49. 49.

    Lurking Canadian

    May 20, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    @boatboy_srq: Kosh has always been here.

  50. 50.

    craigie

    May 20, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    I think you’re all missing the point. Clearly what the rich olds need to do is get transfusions of young mouse blood.

  51. 51.

    Sam Dobermann

    May 21, 2015 at 5:12 pm

    Think strategically. Publicize this to those disgusting legislators who love to promote “independence” through starving and weakening kids by cutting off food stamps and aid to families — as they just did in AZ.

    Tell them they NEED to raise crops of well nourished young ‘uns to give blood to then when they aged. Once they can see an economic value in growing their own crop of suppliers then may see a need for nourishing them.

    Nah, long term thinking is not their long suit.

    Oh well.

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