Everybody's pretty jazzed that Huckabee took this bullet, I'll bet. pic.twitter.com/7RezoVLgrj
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) May 23, 2015
Mandatory serious, constructive links:
At Patheos’ Love, Joy, Feminism blog, Libby Anne — who grew up in a “large evangelical homeschool family highly involved in the Christian Right” — discusses “What You Need to Know about the Josh Duggar Police Report“.
In the Washington Post‘s “Acts of Faith” column, “How do evangelicals view the Duggars? It’s complicated.“:
On Thursday, one of reality TV’s most enduring household names became embroiled in scandal, with news that Josh Duggar, the eldest of 19, had molested several youths when he was a teenager. For a show built around the concept of a wholesome family, and with Josh a high-level staffer with a prominent social conservative D.C. advocacy group, the news triggered a quick plunge from public grace.
For many evangelicals, however, the revelation felt more personal and complicated. Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, who reflected an evangelical faith in their lifestyle – from limitless children to homeschooling to a father-dominated home – had always stirred debate about what it means to be a Christian family and to live out your faith. It was as if their extreme family pushed the question even harder…
As the Duggars became huge celebrities and eventually high-profile advocates for politicians including Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum, evangelicals debated whether it was crazy to keep looking at them as ideals of modest Christian living…
I believe God is trying to send us a message by only letting hypocrites claim to speak for Him.
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) May 22, 2015
Lavocat
Methinks Duggar’s police records were recently destroyed – by court order – precisely because of pictures like this.
One can’t destroy these pictures so …
Baud
But Hillary got an email from Sidney Blumenthal, so .. you know … both sides.
PhoenixRising
…these people.
They sent the juvenile offender, who wasn’t treated, to the Family Research Council so he could call me a child molester like it was his job…wait a minute, it literally WAS his job…and told the victims that they played a role in tempting him.
As someone once said re his political opponent: I’ll stop telling the truth about their parenting if they’ll stop lying about mine.
Cervantes
@Lavocat:
Some records, not all.
The judge who issued the order was appointed by Gov. Huckabee to two separate committees and served on them from 1995-2005.
Valdivia
I really cannot for the love of the spaghetti monster understand people defending him.
On another topic: I know watching Eurovision is not a thing many people at BJ do, but since it’s one of my guilty pleasures I have been enjoying my afternoon listening to cheesy music, being outraged at the political judging, and generally plotting along with my syllabus.
Mike in NC
I feel blessed by God that I had never heard of these wingnut religious zealots until a couple days ago.
Shrillhouse
“a prominent social conservative D.C. advocacy group”
That’s an exceedingly polite way of saying “radical hate group”.
Schlemazel
@Lavocat:
They are available online though. I forget where but I saw them. Didn’t care enough to actually read them but they are images of the actual police report. I’ll look around and see if I can find where that was & post if I do.
The question someone should ask ol billy bob buttfuck is “you say that homeosexuals pray on children, does this mean you are a homosexual?” It might be fun to see him try to tap dance between which is worse, gay or kiddie diddler.
gogol's wife
@efgoldman:
It’s supposed to be a joke but it’s true.
Gian
@Cervantes:
I’ll say this puts a new spin on his pardon of the Clinton Cousin Rapist turned murderer. I’m not sure it helps him. “I’m a non partisan rape fan” probably doesn’t get votes
Villago Delenda Est
The Fundigelicals will defend their own, no matter what crimes they commit. It’s The Tribe that’s important, and these vile people epitomize the very hypocrisy that set Jesus off in the Temple.
Baud
The comments in this thread are not visible on the mobile site. Previous post looks OK.
Tree With Water
Digby Says: “These kids are smart. It is the media as much as the Republicans and they have no excuse. The Republicans are just being Republicans. They want to win and they’re willing to do anything. They put this garbage into the ether and the media just can’t seem to help running after it like a pack of slavering dogs. I don’t think people knew this back in the 90s. We were still laboring under the illusion that the press was unbiased and professional. It’s sad that they haven’t changed but at least the younger generation gets it”.
Some people in the 1990’s knew as much, for all the good it did. And unlike Digby or the young and smart, I place the lion’s share of responsibility for the rightward lunge of our democracy on the shoulders of the democratic party, and less so on the practices of the corporate media. The truth is surely an undefinable fusion of the two. But where the rank and file is powerless to effect corporate decision making, they are indisputably all powerful in choosing their candidates for public office. No one put a gun to the heads of California democrats to nominate Dianne Feinstein, for example- for glaring example, in point of fact.
MattF
The post by Libby Anne changed my opinion– this is really worse than I had originally thought. It’s very possible that the young man is sick in a fundamental way– at this point no one really knows. It’s very possible that the closest analogy here is to the Catholic priests who molested children. And Huckabee. Yyyyikes. He really needs to reconsider his position here.
debbie
@gogol’s wife:
This would be a good moment for the Wrath of God to show itself.
b-more
Baltimore now has had 42 murders in the last 30 days. This last occurred in 1990 when the city had 100,000 more residents. It’s going to be a long summer…
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est:
At least Josh isn’t a liberal!
Valdivia
@Baud:
there’s something funny going on with the regular site too.
Baud
@Valdivia:
The regular site in mobile looks OK, although I don’t use it enough to know whether it should look different.
debbie
@Valdivia:
The stuff on the sides has disappeared.
Valdivia
@debbie:
it’s all at the bottom and the margins look all bizarre.
@Baud:
as @debbie: noted the ads have gone rogue making everything look off kilter and then messing up up and down navigation to the bottom (where the ads went to live for some reason)
ETA: thanks to whoever fixed it. now I can go up and down and not end up three pages below the last comment.
Roger Moore
I would say that the police officer who failed to report this ought to be in jail, except he’s already in prison for kiddie porn. This whole thing is a giant mass of fail from one end to the other.
Baud
@Valdivia:
I’m now on the site on my computer, and it looks normal.
ETA: Firefox
Baud
@Baud:
And now the comments are back on the mobile site.
Valdivia
@Baud:
yes some magician fixed it. I am on Chrome. Wonder if they fixed also the mobile site.
Anne Laurie
@Baud: Thanks — fixed now?
(one misaligned carat!)
MattF
@Roger Moore: The business about reporting to this particular police officer is the point at which the top of my head goes ka-boom.
Baud
@Anne Laurie:
You’re a tech wizard!
(And it shouldn’t be that easy to bork the site.)
shell
I’m enjoying the photos of rainbows arching over Dublin today. Tres apropos.
Mike in NC
I hope Josh Bugger is hired as campaign manager for whoever the GOP nominates as president for 2016.
MattF
@Baud: Right. I mean, who would ever misalign a carat? Inconceivable!
JPL
Last night Germy Shoemangler posted pictures from boingboing of Josh and his cronies. The classic one is of Sarah in her flag outfit, she didn’t seem pleased. http://boingboing.net/2015/05/22/josh-duggar-poses-with-his-imp.html
I don’t know how to just flag Sarah’s picture, so you have to page down. .
danielx
@JPL:
Some sacrifices I’m not prepared to accept.
SiubhanDuinne
@Anne Laurie:
Caret, please, not carat.
A carat is how you measure the weight of your precious gems. A caret is the little upside-down v to indicate a textual insertion.
(Anne Laurie, I adore catching you out in typos, misspellings, and word usage errors. They happen so rarely that it’s a real treat when they do occur! All in friendship and respect.)
Wag
Classic example of feet of clay
The Duggar family is afalse idol with a head of gold, shoulders of silver, a body of bronze, legs of wood and feet of clay. One little push and it all comes tumbling down.
Roger Moore
@MattF:
The thing that really enrages me is their hypocritical attempt to hide behind the victims. They failed to do diddly squat to protect those girls when they had the chance, but now they’re using the need to protect their anonymity as an excuse for hiding the details. I wonder how hard they had to twist the victims’ arms behind their metaphorical backs to get them to go along.
The whole thing looks a hell of a lot like the child abuse scandals in the Catholic Church writ small. The abuser gets away with it because the church leaders care more about protecting the church from scandal than they do about protecting vulnerable church members from abuse.
gogol's wife
@debbie:
I’ve been mentally calling it down on the Duggars for a long time!
Valdivia
@Anne Laurie: thanks for fixing it. Magic!
gogol's wife
@JPL:
Rick Perry looks gaunt — is he ill?
Ruckus
@Tree With Water:
Feinstein. You are right, the party machine, such as it exists has a senior(in a couple of ways) senator and doesn’t want to risk losing that seat. So they continue to do nothing as long as she wants to run. No one apprenticing to take her place, even if they were no better than her. And her opponents of late? Hell I had nothing better to do the last time she ran, I thought about it. Except I have no money, no power, no party machine behind me. My chances would have (and still are) exactly zero. I think we need term limits for all national offices. I don’t think they should be that short but they should be there. Without them we end up with people like Feinstein. Sure we may lose some good people in the end but with term limits that gives others a chance and maybe the constant fund raising and glad handing can be lessened so that may be we can get some responsible governing going on. For example:
Senator, 3 terms, that’s 18 yrs, over twice as long as president.
House, 10 terms, 20 yrs. Run for the senate, run for president, go build a political machine, that works.
You can still be fired by the people after any lesser terms if they want, but it would be a step towards more people running our government, rather than less.
Valdivia
Off to a dinner party at a fiend’s house. Hope they don’t sit me next to a designated single person I’m supposed to swoon over. Love my friends but their taste in men intended for me is kinda crap :)
Enjoy your evening!
WereBear
Color me completely unsurprised.
Biill Gothard, who started a lot of this in 1961, was forced to step down last year amid accusations of sexual harassment from dozens of his former “special secretaries” and Doug Phillips, the head of Vision Forum, forced his nanny into sex, and now the third element of the triumvirate, the Duggar family, has revealed its own dark side.
They enshrine abuse of power and oppression into their theology. And so this is inevitably what will happen.
They are really loathsome people and deserve even more of a downfall.
Valdivia
Ugh. That should read friend’s house. Not fiend’s.
Damn you autocorrect.
WereBear
From birth they’ve been told they carry the Curse of Eve and everything is their fault. The arm twisting started in utero.
Roger Moore
@WereBear:
Yeah, but I bet it took at least an extra tug or two to get them to go along this time.
debbie
@gogol’s wife:
Hmm, do you take requests?!?
ET
Extreme patriarchy + weird attitudes toward sex/sex ed + a very closed social circle = trouble of the sex variety.
debbie
@gogol’s wife:
I think it’s his glasses — they’re very slimming.
Keith G
Looking at the photo-spread above : If I knew none of them and I was forced to make a choice to meet one of that crew for drink at the bar of my local establishment. I would choose Palin. The rest seem to resemble discount store manikins.
And what’s with Rubio’s comb over? That’s a bit problematic.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@PhoenixRising: I meant to mention earlier, it’s so exciting to hear of the outing your daughter arranged. It’s always good for me to have perspective, even if all my kids have four legs and fur.
Tree With Water
The Bush-Cheney-Clinton narrative of the American history of our War in Iraq entails no treachery, no plotting of conspirators. Today Americans are presented with three alternatives, being called on to endorse it as a “good war” (republicans), turn a blind eyes towards any narrative altogether (Hillary democrats), or denounce it as a pack of lies (democrats and the sane). That’s what disturbs me about Hillary- she can’t bring herself to admit of the lies.
Driftglass.com offers up a grotesque scenario rendered inevitable by the ‘good war’ and ‘blind eyes” adherents, and concludes: ..”If, knowing how horribly Bush mismanaged two wars, you can read that story about “tears dripping from [Bush’s] eyes” onto the face of a dying Marine without revulsion, you’re made of stronger stuff than I am”.
Cervantes
@Keith G:
… hemlock.
schrodinger's cat
From the block quote in the post:
By what definition of modesty is being a Reality TV star, modest. I mean your entire life is a spectacle, entertainment, how is that modest?
WereBear
@Roger Moore: Oh, there was pressure applied, I have no doubt. But since they ranged in age between nine and four at the first incident we know of, they were tragically pliable.
ThresherK
@Tree With Water: (That’s driftglass.blogspot.com. I’ve been listening to the podcast for years, and it’s super analysis, plus great radio too.)
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Lavocat:
Some of them were destroyed because one of the victims asked that the unredacted versions of the reports be destroyed so that she couldn’t be identified. I don’t know whether or not it was only these that were destroyed; it’s painfully easy to identify most of the victims even with all of the redactions. I’m not sure how I feel about the decision to destroy records, but I think it’s perfectly understandable that a victim would want them destroyed.
Cervantes
@schrodinger’s cat:
It’s the low-brow version of teaching a course on “Humility” at Yale.
Cacti
My opinion of the Duggars has moved from the “kind of creepy” column to “completely repugnant”.
Amir Khalid
@schrodinger’s cat:
Indeed, it’s hard to imagine anything more ostentatious than living one’s daily life on television.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Valdivia: I was kinda envious that you had your own fiend. So have fun.
MattF
@schrodinger’s cat: “Blessed are the modest, for they shall appear on The Learning Channel.”
fuckwit
@MattF: Yes, it seems very much like the priest molestation problem. Sexually repressed and sexually ignorant men in positions of immense power over children, and nobody watching them. Like the priest molestations, the power structure is set up to protect them in doing whatever the fuck they want to do to anyone they want to do it to, and then merely sweeping it under the rug if there’s a threat if it being uncovered, not ever correcting it.
Roger Moore
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
Given that there’s reason to think that one of the victims is a still minor child of the Duggars, that claim looks incredibly fishy. Did the victim demand that, or did her parents demand that on her behalf? If she demanded it, how much pressure was the rest of the community applying to her to demand it?
Karen in GA
Open thread? Something happy:
Brian’s not a Terry Pratchett fan, so Magrat unfortunately wasn’t an option despite how perfect it is. Meet Muppet (assuming the link works).
Amir Khalid
When I look at that collection of photos, I can’t help but think: what a lovely collection of Backpfeifengesichter. It’s a pity Governor Harkonnen, the worst Fortune 500 CEO in recent history, and The Inspirational Brain Surgeon never got to pose with that upstanding young Christian Mr Duggar.
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
You only say that because you aren’t an Evangelical Christian. I’m sure they think they’re the living image of modesty, but that they’re called by God to live their lives on TV in order to evangelize their proper Christian lifestyle to the world.
Anne Laurie
@Karen in GA: Aww, happy!
How’s Iggy feel about his new sister?
Amir Khalid
@Roger Moore:
Four of Josh’s victims are known to be his sisters which means they have already been publicly identified, even if they haven’t been named.
trollhattan
@Ruckus:
Based on California’s experience with term limits, I’m a-gin ’em. They’re probably one reason we’ve not had more congressional turnover.
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
I don’t think that the failure of Christie or Fiorina to pose with him was from lack of opportunity. They are clearly trying to appeal to a different part of the Republican party, so they don’t feel the need to pose with people like the Duggars to burnish their credibility with the religious wingnuts.
SiubhanDuinne
@Karen in GA:
I am so glad you named her Muppet! She is really a cutie!
Howard Beale IV
The sad part is that now that the gravy train has been cut out, thy’re goon wind up on welfare-and all of us will wind up paying for their largess. Can we at least subject the patriarch to a mandatory vasectomy?
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Karen in GA: ZOMG – adorable! Iggy will be cool with the whole thing, I hope.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Roger Moore: Most of them are not minors and at least one of them isn’t even a member of the family. And, frankly, even it if it someone who is still a minor (maybe especially if it’s someone who is still a minor), this is a sufficiently understandable request that I’m not inclined to start insisting that we assume that it’s really the parents making the decision.
First and foremost, this crime involves victims. Try empathizing with them rather than running over them in your zeal to be angry at the perpetrator.
Cacti
@Roger Moore:
Does Carly Fiorina even have a demographic constituency?
Amir Khalid
@Cacti:
C-level corporate executives, I suppose. You know, the people who helped make her a US Senator.
sharl
@Cacti:
—–> TEAM DEMON SHEEP HERE, REPORTING FOR DOOTY!!!! <—–
Rob
@Cacti #76:
Maybe demon sheep?
eta: I see shari beat me to it, hee hee.
Anne Laurie
@Howard Beale IV:
IIRC, they were on welfare — Aid to Families w/Dependent Children, or whatever it’s called in AR — before the reality show took off. Being a part-time real estate agent and a jackleg preacher doesn’t pay well enough to feed a dozen-plus kids, even on Walmart tater tots, and our government chooses to be prejudiced against letting kids actually starve to death just because their parents are monsters.
But, of course, the Duggar defenders will insist that wasn’t “welfare”, which is only for those people, it was just… their Due, as Good Christians…
MattF
@Cacti: I don’t think Fiorina’s candidacy includes the concept of ‘voters’.
Karen in GA
@Anne Laurie: I think he’d like if she were more playful, but she’s a bit overwhelmed right now. But he’s a friendly little beast, so he’s fine with her so far.
She’s a lot better with him today than yesterday — she had snarled a few times when I had brought them into the house together for the first time last night. Today he tried to play and accidentally hurt her. She yelped, but didn’t snarl or snap at him, and a minute later they were standing a foot apart from each other, looking up at me as if nothing had happened. I think she would have tried to kill him if that had happened last night.
The rescue gave me a five day trial period with her, to make sure all goes well. So far it’s just been getting better and better. I think she’s a keeper.
MazeDancer
Recently, there was a post here at BJ about the Brits taking down a large child sex exploitation ring full of politicians and celebs.
This Duggar situation has some organized ring of generational exploitation aspects to it. Josh was 14. Most 14 year olds don’t molest their sisters and other little girls unless they were taught to do that.
The Duggars hid the situation for a long time playing out that 3 year statute of limitation clock. Josh was not sent for counseling, he was sent to a friend. The State Trooper chosen to give Josh the “stern talk” instead of booking him is serving 56 years for child pornography. (No kidding. Daily Mail covered that fully if you want to search a link. Can’t provide because FYWP limit). Records wiped. Many “Code of silence” aspects to all of that.
In 2007, the Duggars and abuse were already an internet discussion, notably because locals suspected and Oprah didn’t air a show planned about them. Here is a 2007 post on that. Don’t necessarily recommend clicking. Just to document it was happening. And every trigger warning included.
Oprah supposedly contacted authorities.
The story was first broken this week by In Touch Weekly who filed a Freedom of Information Act request to get the police record. It is still not known who’s behind their seeking the info, there has to be an informant.
But what is known is that TLC should have their license revoked. They had to know. And that, as usually happens, the focus on the perpetrators ignores the victims. Which quite possibly could include many Duggars including very young Josh.
Mary G
@Karen in GA: Muppet is adorable, but didn’t Iggy want a poodle?
ETA: I didn’t get a chance to give you condolences on Phoebe, I think, but you had my sympathy. All that running around sounded so stressful. Glad to see you are getting another fur kid right away. I did that and it does help distract you, even if it is in no way a replacement.
WereBear
@Karen in GA: So happy to hear things are going well.
Karen in GA
@Mary G: He and I will have to discuss that.
NotMax
@MazeDancer
What license might that be? They’re not an over the air broadcast network, they’re a cable network.
Karen in GA
@Mary G: Responding to your edit, I resisted the urge when Smudge passed away, but then when Phoebe went less than a month later, I told my husband we needed a new beast. He resisted at first, but wise man that he is, he came around.
WereBear
@Karen in GA: My own husband got us a new kitten when it became clear our eldest cat, at 18, was not going to be with us much longer.
It was a very kind and loving thing to do.
When we have multiple pets, it becomes a more natural process, but in any case, I see adopting, any time, as a great way of paying love forward.
Erehwon
@Cacti: Fired CEOs? Failed Senate candidates?
MazeDancer
@Karen in GA: That is one dazzlingly cute doggie. Congratulations!
Mike in NC
What sane couple would choose to have 19 children that they couldn’t even afford to provide for? That’s sick. Muhammad Ali once said he had a bunch of kid because he was wealthy enough to do so.
lamh36
‘YOU DON’T BELONG HERE’ SAID RACIST LETTER SENT TO LONG ISLAND FAMILY
lamh36
Bex
Check TBogg for pictures of Josh the perv with Rand Paul, “Bobby” Jindal, Reince Priebus and last but least, Joni Breadbags.
Davis X. Machina
@NotMax: Never mind the FCC being powerless, there’s also the First Amendment implications.
You’d be surprised how frequent such calls are on allegedly progressive websites.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mary G:
@Karen in GA:
Karen, Karen, Karen. If John G. Cole can pass off Thurston Howl as half-poodle, surely you can persuade Iggy that Muppet is all-poodle. Okay, well, at least part-poodle. Poodle-ish.
Germy Shoemangler
This cartoon addresses the issue of being born on third base vs. being born in the parking lot outside the stadium.
WereBear
Asked, and answered.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Valdivia:
I’m still reeling from you plotting along with your syllabus.
Germy Shoemangler
@lamh36: I hope they catch the coward.
Baud
@lamh36:
Sometimes, I’m amazed that Obama won two presidential elections in this country.
MomSense
@Karen in GA:
Yes!! Such a cutie and so much nicer to look at then those idiots at the top of the post. I bet your new pup is smarter than all of them combined.
Chris
@Villago Delenda Est:
Yep. True of virtually every conservative institution. Religious nuts, Wall Street, the police, the Defense Department.
It’s why I find it impossible to get too worked up about liberals’ circular firing squad tendencies. If we’re gonna overshoot, better in that direction than the other.
MomSense
@lamh36:
Oh god. I hope they catch the racist coward who wrote that hateful letter.
schrodinger's cat
Its not just the Duggars, there are tons of “modest” fashion bloggers. Taking your own pictures and posting them for public consumption is very strange definition of modesty, indeed.
El Caganer
Rev. Huck has sent forth his Presidential ambitions to die on Duggar hill. Memorial ceremony to be held at the Church of the Whited Sepulcher, where the only true sin is bad publicity.
opiejeanne
@Amir Khalid: Except she’s not a Senator.
opiejeanne
@Anne Laurie: Wow. That’s very different from what I read yesterday, that Jim Bob was a successful real estate investor and was very well-off before the show started. I thought that was odd because I remembered what you just described.
RobertDSC (Quad Intel Mac)
@JPL:
His hand is in an inappropriate place. But given these allegations, I’m surprised he’s touching her at all. I suspect he likes them younger, and we all know Sarah’s been around a while.
lamh36
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Germy Shoemangler:
That was really good, and not preachy or shrill, just matter of fact. I’ve got friends who can’t figure out how all the little things add up. I’ll have to send it to them.
ruemara
Can I get a “these motherfuckers right here”? http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/02/the-cleveland-cops-who-fired-137-shots-and-cried-victim.html?via=mobile&source=twitter
9 of those cleveland cops involved in the murder of two unarmed people are filing a suit claiming that they were discriminated against.
Amir Khalid
@opiejeanne:
My point exactly.
schrodinger's cat
@opiejeanne: Wasn’t Jim Bob also an elected official? State Assembly or something like that?
opiejeanne
@schrodinger’s cat: Yup. I read that in the same article yesterday. I think he was a state representative, but I can’t remember for sure. I think he served two terms.
opiejeanne
@Amir Khalid: Oh. My tongue-in-cheek detector is broken.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mike in NC:
You lost me at “sane.”
opiejeanne
@SiubhanDuinne: Mrs Duggar’s advice to her daughters wrt sex was just … “be ready always, be available always, so your husband won’t go looking for it elsewhere”.
Kay
@MazeDancer:
I don’t understant this whole thing. If there was a police report, then there had to be a referral to child protective agency (both the victims and the perpetrator would be potential “victims” – there would also be a juvenile offender inquiry on the perpetrator). This wouldn’t have been run by police after the initial report was made and certainly not by a state trooper- the lead investigation would be abuse, neglect and dependency because the immediate concern would be protection.
There’s a lot more to this than “there was a police report and then it was handled privately”.
Major Major Major Major
I got bored and made http://www.kilohitler.com because somebody had to.
fuckwit
@Chris: That’s very insightful; thanks, never thought of it that way. But I guess the circular firing squad and purity-pony-patrols could be viewed as a kind of way of policing our own.
Though it’s not true that the right wing is immune to those; since the teabaggers came around they seem to be going through one right now.
Graham
Josh resembles Ross Douthat to me. Just saying….
MaryRC
@WereBear: Those were just his sisters, though. Didn’t he molest several other girls outside the family?
Kay
@MazeDancer:
There’s just so much missing. The Duggars would have to show that they could protect their other children with a (presumed, because it reads like he admitted it) offender in the home. They would have to address that even if their (other) children were never victims, because they’d be at risk. Then there would be questions on whether the perpetrator was victimized and where and by whom, because he was a juvenile.
PurpleGirl
@Roger Moore:
I wonder how hard they had to twist the victims’ arms behind their metaphorical backs to get them to go along.
Probably not a lot because some of the victims WERE HIS SISTERS. Remember they were raised in the same fundi homeschooling home by the forever preggers breeder who probably also doesn’t see anything wrong about it because after all, Josh is a son, the bearer of the almighty sperm. These children were raised to be ignorant and they certainly are. Also remember as the breeder kept breeding, the older girls had to begin taking care of the younger children, nannies in training as it were.
(Sorry for sounding all bitchy about them, but to this Lutheran’s eyes, this family is not at all representative of a Christian family.
fuckwit
@Kay: There was no police report. The patriarch went and had a talk with his child-molesting buddy on the police force… to keep it quiet. Off the record, probably off the clock. No report was filed. The child-molesting police officer DID NOT do his mandatory reporting duty. The whole thing was a fix.
Tenar Darell
@Karen in GA: daww, very cute pix of Iggy and Muppet together. Congrats!
Kay
@fuckwit:
I thought I read there was a FOIA’d police report?
fuckwit
@PurpleGirl: That Jim Bob might not be far off from this turd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs
fuckwit
@Kay: If there was, I’d be interested to see a link. Haven’t. Even checked thesmokinggun.com, the go-to place for scandalous police reports.
Kay
@fuckwit:
This:
http://cdn-media.extratv.com/2015/05/21/duggardocs.pdf
Kay
@fuckwit:
“Court-referred youth”, so they were planning some kind of government contracting.
Let’s hope that business never got off the ground, huh?
http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2015/may/23/silence-led-to-no-case-for-duggar-20150/
WereBear
At least one, according to the report gotten through FOI.
It is truly a serious and distressing and not an isolated incident.
But it’s sadly common for this branch of the religion to refuse to acknowledge or deal with such behavior… when committed by an abuser at any age. To them, might makes right.
WereBear
@Kay: Geez. Talk about all the usual suspects.
Gene108
@MazeDancer:
I do not know, if he was taught. I think, if you coop an adolescent up with little access to other kids his age, little opportunity to play sports – even with friends – and somehow expect him to not develop problems you are in for a rude shock.
I think in the closed environment he is from will breed problems all on its own, without any need to be taught.
MaryRC
@opiejeanne: When the show first started on TLC, I remember articles in women’s magazines in which the Duggars would proudly boast of how they were able to pay for their house and live mortgage-free due to their real estate investments and the simplicity of their lifestyle.
Michelle Duggar had lots of tips to share on living frugally — buying food on sale or in bulk, keeping their freezers stocked, sewing their own clothes.
Now we know that TLC paid for their house. Really, everything they say is a lie.
Anne Laurie
@Kay:
From what I’ve read, the “report” was made to a state trooper, a “long term family friend”, who has since been jailed twice for possession of child pornography. So, you know, a ‘stern talking-to about how such behavior could ruin one’s life’ was about as much as could be expected or desired by Daddy Jim-Bob.
Wasn’t mentioned whether that ‘state trooper’ was a member of the Duggar cult, but the family was heavily involved in local politics. As in the Sandusky case, way too much incentive for the “community guardians” to cover up rather than prosecute.
(There’s another creepy story out there that the molestation was originally uncovered when Josh’s future wife’s daddy lost a local election in his Florida town. Since only a ‘sinful failure among the community’ could possibly be the cause of such a ‘prayer warrior’ losing an election, every member of the congregation was scoured for impure thoughts & actions, and the little-girl-who-was-not-a-Duggar asked if ‘letting’ Josh touch her ‘inside her panties’ while he was reading her a bedtime story was a bad thing. There is not a hell deep enough for people who not only allow but cover up such abuse, psychological as well as sexual/physical.)
JPL
@MaryRC: Hey.. but at least they aren’t gay. The story just sickens me. The only reason that I know of the perverts is because they have been on the Today show. In fact that might be the time that I turned off the Today show.
Roger Moore
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
You’re right. The victims do deserve protection. I just get so angry because it appears that the first time that anyone is thinking about them is when it happens to protect the perpetrator, too.
fuckwit
@Kay: Thanks. That looks like the current report, not from years ago (before the statute of limitations expired) when the Duggars went to their corrupt police contact. My understanding is that there was no report filed at the time. Could be wrong though.
PurpleGirl
@Mike in NC: Aww, come on. They know G_d will provide, especially things like a recipe for dinner featuring tater tots and a few pieces of hot dogs.
JPL
Yesterday the Washington Post had an article about TLC canceling the show to soon. The show could be used as a learning experience. Today’s article is not quite the same. The title is the Duggar’s dangerous cult of purity…
It’s a cult and the Duggar’s protecting their son has done enormous harm to the daughters. Sickos…
MomSense
@ruemara:
NO. I can’t even. What??
Valdivia
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
I walked right into that one :)
I actually kind of needed my own fiend tonight. Think from now on I am staying away from dinner parties unless I am promised no more eligible men will be invited for me. The wine was good though. And my friends are always lovely.
@Steeplejack (phone):
obviously it was my day for typos to make my life sound more interesting than it is.
Kay
@WereBear:
“Hobby Lobby donates facility for Bible-based, publicly-funded juvenile offender program” is probably not ending well.
We have one effective program in the whole state for juvenile sex offenders. It’s expensive because it’s good so it’s like traige- you have to beg to get someone in there- convince the powers that be they’re likely to respond well to treatment.
If treating juvenile sex offendors were as simple as Bible reading and “hard physical labor” as Mrs. Duggar seems to think, the state would happily do that because residential treatment costs about 40k for 18 months per kid. People would be thrilled if this were true. They would grab it.
PaulW
They’re still trying to protect the son… the rapist. Has there even been a word about the girls he’s raped?! Who is speaking for them?
SiubhanDuinne
@opiejeanne:
opiejeanne
@MaryRC: I am extremely offended by these people calling themselves Christians; I have been waiting for years to hear their fall from grace because I figured it was coming. It’s just amazing how often this happens and amazing that it doesn’t make the people who admired them have second thoughts about what it was that they admired.
Anyone who thinks perpetual pregnancy is a desired goal for religious or any other reasons needs to have their head examined.
Kay
@fuckwit:
Thanks, and you’re right.. I didn’t see the 3 year delay – that the initial report was 02-3
MomSense
@Anne Laurie:
Unfortunately I think that there are more creepy stories still to come. Like MazeDancer said above, this has the feel of a more systemic problem in this family and their community.
Very troubling.
jibeaux
I’d just like to take a moment for a tangent, specifically what the prison life of a State Trooper child molester is like. Probably not good.
opiejeanne
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s sick, either way.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
@ruemara: Yes. Yes you can.
I hope the feds eat them alive.
Zinsky
What a pathetic bunch of human beings – every last one of them.
Kay
@JPL:
Is there one of these shows that has ended well for the children involved?
Can you imagine the horror of having your entire childhood recorded and followed by millions of people in your house? What happens to them? Does it change them? What is that like?
WereBear
It’s a system that creates abusers and grooms victims so… yeah.
opiejeanne
@Anne Laurie: I think the article I read said that the State Trooper/child porn fan who was consulted was a member of the Duggars’ church.
SiubhanDuinne
@Graham:
Yes!! Thank you! That is exactly who he’s been reminding me of.
opiejeanne
@Anne Laurie: That story about the whole searching for the reason the election was lost? Wow. Just. Wow.
That poor child.
I thought that the fifth victim was one of Josh’s cousins.
Kay
I watched a part of one episode. It was like 5 or 6 kids and they were making treats for “first responders”- cookies and things. Then they took the treats to a firehouse and thanked the first reponders and everyone had to stand around awkwardly… it was just cringe-worthy. I felt sorry for the firefighters.. I think they should have said “we don’t want any part of whatever this game is”.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@fuckwit: The date reflects when it was generated for the FOIA request. The interview dates are 2006 – conveniently near if not after the statute expired. the state trooper was a mandatory reporter, and in some states the pastor would also be. Of course the trooper was convicted of child pronograffy, paroled and then re-offended with child porn while on parole, which is why he’s now serving 56 years.
The whole thing certainly looks like a thorough and determined effort to avoid criminal charges. And the daughters have no doubt been slut shamed – probably the non-daughter(s?) too. Gah.
opiejeanne
And then there’s this report on the founder of a treatment center that Josh Duggar supposedly was sent to, except I thought he wasn’t sent for treatment: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/founder-of-josh-duggars-treatment-center-left-after-sexually-grooming-teens-and-young-women/
The Lodger
@WereBear: So it was all over when Bill Gothard?
Anne Laurie
@Kay:
I’m old enough to remember when PBS and the Loud family started the whole shameful juggernaut. The adults’ twenty-year marriage blew up on camera, and their oldest son came out as gay (which was a newsworthy scandal at the time). And those were upper-middle-class “worthy” white suburbanites, not trailer trash or religious cultists!
So it’s not like the model didn’t come with a giant DANGER sticker prominently featured. Consciously or not, the promoters are looking / hoping for a news-igniting disaster every time they find a new gimmick to promote. C.R.E.A.M.!
PurpleGirl
Please note: I do not follow this family but with the number of commercials and written content about htem you can’t help but hear or see something about. So… a few months back I kept seeing references in Internet ads about something dark in Michelle’s past. I did not click links, and I have no idea what the news media were referring to
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
The behavior was sexual assault, which is a more powerful description than the sanitized term “molestation.” What is wasn’t, was an accident. He didn’t trip and grope these girls as they slept.
It was deliberate, disturbed – and criminal – behavior. The police report refers to the acts as “forcible fondling.” (CNN) The behavior was not a “mistake.” Though the family seems to see it that way. I suspect many of their fans/supporters do also.
Jim Bob and Michelle:
(TPM, and quoted extensively in other sources)
Mrs. Josh:
(ABC)
And of course Huckabee:
(CNN)
If I read one.more.quote from a person describing Josh Duggar’s sexually abusive “mistakes,” I suspect I will scream at the monitor. I will try to avoid additional stories on the topic as a preventive measure.
WereBear
@The Lodger: The Duggars are prominent ATI fans; the organization Gothard ran for decades. As described in this Love Joy Feminism post, Gothard’s advice on handling sexual abuse is the opposite of what recognized experts in the field recommend.
Which surprises exactly no one.
Kay
@Anne Laurie:
MSNBC used to have that horrible “juvenile justice” show. I still don’t know why they were permitted to record kids, or why Indiana allowed it. How great is that going to be for them when they’re 25, having their juvenile court apearance recorded and easily accessible so it follows them for eternity? I mean really, what is wrong with these adults? This is a bad idea.
Roger Moore
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
It’s really very simple. When one of us does something terrible, it’s a mistake or a sin. When one of those people does something wrong, even a minor slip-up, it’s a terrible crime.
Kay
You go, California. It’s about time.
This whole scam industry is absolutely imploding. If there’s ever any kind of real inquiry half of the US Congress will be implicated. It’s amazing how well-connected for-profit colleges are, or were, because the rats will be fleeing this ship here shortly.
Kay
@Roger Moore:
They’re playing it like it was a 14 year old and someone around his age “experimenting” which is really a much different thing than a 14 year old and a small child. There’s a distinction that gets made there, perhaps not strictly legally- blunt instrument, all that- but the difference is recognized and would have been acknowleged it it had gone to the social work arena rather than the “cop who is family friend” route.
14 year old/little kids is worse.
Roger Moore
@Kay:
I think they really don’t get the fine distinctions. When it comes to sex, I’m not even sure if they get really coarse distinctions. I get the feeling that for them, sex falls into two categories: licit (i.e. procreative sex between a married couple) and everything else. They might make an additional distinction for rape, but that would be exclusively the kind of forcible rape the Bible talks about. They’re mostly worried that Josh has been engaged in illicit sex and aren’t too worried about the legal aspects or how it affects the girls he molested.
Tenar Darell
@Anne Laurie: Did you watch the anniversary documentary a few years ago? It made me sad.
sharl
Although it’s far more the bailiwick of a number of other folks here, my impression is that state and local social services across the country – including those established to protect children – are desperately understaffed, underfunded, and stretched to the breaking point.
Having said that, is Arkansas a particularly bad basket case? In addition to the Duggars, this state also brought us the horrible story of Justin Harris, “Christian” day care facility proprietor and state senator, who became notorious for re-homing* an adopted child in his care to some guy who raped her. [*Apparently, ‘re-homing’ has become a big problem in the world of adoption.]
The back story on how Justin Harris acquired his adopted children – basically, using his legislative influence over the budget over the relevant state agency to bypass the usual safeguards and waiting periods – just adds to the stench. Combine that with how Jim Bob Duggar was able to work a special deal with the kiddie porn-loving LEO to spare son Josh from legal repercussions and/or mandatory legitimate treatment/counseling, and you have to wonder just how effed up the state child protection legal structure must be in AR.
This late March post at the Arkansas Times’ blog may offer some hope: the state has contracted with an outside consultant to look at the AR foster care and adoption system. The consultant is being funded by the Ann E. Casey Foundation rather than the state, which hopefully does not bode ill if the consultant comes back with a recommendation for more state funding of their child welfare services.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@lamh36:
Sending threatening letters in the mail is a federal offense. Ironically, the asshole who did this has a much better chance of going to jail (or at least being heavily fined) than a cop who kills someone does.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Kay: The Truman Show was apparently a documentary.
Karen
@Valdivia:
It’s quite simple. If he’d been diddling his younger brothers instead of his sister he would have been vilified. But I guess diddling your younger sisters plus girls outside his family is just fine as long as he’s forgiven by those same girls who were “asked” to forgive him.
evodevo
@Kay: What part of “state rep in Arkansas” do you not understand LOL ?
Elizabelle
The Duggars are a freak show. I don’t understand why those awful parents are popping out so many kids; it’s appalling. Not interested in them.
SenatorTankerbell
Long time lurker, first time blah blah blah…
Maybe I missed something, as I haven’t been following this story closely, but is there any reason to believe that Josh Duggar didn’t continue committing his crimes into adulthood? He faced no legal repercussions, received no treatment, etc., so why should I believe that all of these “mistakes” occurred when he was 14? I find it difficult to believe that after a conversation with a pedophile cop, he suddenly reformed. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if Daddy Duggar taught him a few tricks along the way.
I’m sorry for the vitriol, especially in my first post, but these people just seem like sociopaths to me.
Another Holocene Human
@PaulW: That’s why the girls rush to get married early.
Imo, dad’s a creep too. Wonder when the foot will drop in that. Think a lot of people are still afraid of him.