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You are here: Home / Civil Rights / LGBTQ Rights / Gay Rights are Human Rights / The Arc Of History, Ireland Edition

The Arc Of History, Ireland Edition

by Tom Levenson|  May 23, 201512:16 pm| 45 Comments

This post is in: Gay Rights are Human Rights

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Those of us of a certain age can only marvel at this photograph:

Screen Shot 2015-05-23 at 11.47.41 AM

There you have what was for a generation the face of the IRA — with all of its connections to Catholic Irish history — next to Panti Bliss, aka Rory O’Neill, who serves, semi-accidentally, as a leading voice for Irish marriage equality and sex/gender equal rights — who stands next to Frances Fitzgerald, the Irish Republic’s Minister for Justice and Equality*.  To say this is not a juxtaposition that someone watching Irish politics in, say the 80s, would have been able to imagine is to understatement as Velveeta is to food.

All of which is to open up a thread to celebrate a real victory:  Ireland’s Yes vote on its same-sex marriage referendum.  It was barely more than two decades ago that Ireland decriminalized homosexuality.  Now this.  The arc of history bends towards justice…

I’ve no Irish descent in me anywhere; so let me just say thanks to those who voted in favor for making a huge public statement — and a vital contribution to the cause of human dignity.

Next up, there, crucially, and more and more every day here:  the rights of women to control their own reproductive lives.

Over to you.

*Now there’s a cabinet title I endorse!

Update:  via the Guardian, this from Diarmuid Martin, archibishop of Dublin:

“This is a social revolution,” he told RTE Television. “The church has a huge task in front of it get its message across to young people … The church needs to do a reality check.”

Asked if the church was ill-equipped to deal with these issues, he said: “We tend to think of black and white but most of us live our lives in grey.” The church needed to use the result to harness the energy that has been unleashed in favour of equality for all, the archbishop added.

If the Catholic Church continues along lines suggested here by Martin and in a number of ways by the current Pope, this seems to this Jewish atheist to be an unequivocally good thing.

Update 2:  And the final numbers are in.

Yes:  1,201,607 — 62.07%

No:    734,300 — 37.93%

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Reader Interactions

45Comments

  1. 1.

    ruemara

    May 23, 2015 at 12:21 pm

    It’s an amazing victory, isn’t it? Unfortunately, the verdict in the case of the Cleveland officer who murdered 2 people by pumping their car with 47 bullets after a massive chase where it seemed the whole derp was after them because their car backfired, well, that managed to knock me down.

  2. 2.

    Cervantes

    May 23, 2015 at 12:22 pm

    The arc of history bends towards justice…

    Sometimes — but when it does, we should, indeed, celebrate!

    Slainté!

  3. 3.

    Cervantes

    May 23, 2015 at 12:25 pm

    @ruemara:

    Yes, sometimes the arc of history appears to just not give a damn.

  4. 4.

    Sherparick

    May 23, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    @ruemara: Somewhere Bill Donahue’s head has just exploded.

  5. 5.

    Betty Cracker

    May 23, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    The collapse of the Catholic Church’s influence in Ireland is all the more amazing when you consider that it’s a strong cultural marker in addition to a religious affiliation. Sometimes child buggery and the enslavement and abuse of young women has consequences after all!

  6. 6.

    nellcote

    May 23, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    double rainbow over Dublin today

  7. 7.

    Tom Levenson

    May 23, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    @nellcote: Now that’s the power of teh ghey!

  8. 8.

    Keith P.

    May 23, 2015 at 12:49 pm

    Juxtapose that last statement with some of those coming from pseudo-religious leaders here (i.e., and I am paraphrasing, “This is one issue that we will not yield to…we do not have to follow the law…it will be the end of civilization as we know it”)

  9. 9.

    Richard Shindledecker

    May 23, 2015 at 12:59 pm

    Where is the ‘like’ button – and can we make it a ‘love’ one?

  10. 10.

    Professor

    May 23, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    Now what are the five Catholic men (justices) on the bench of the US Supreme Court going to do about marriage equality in June?

  11. 11.

    Persia

    May 23, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    I’m so happy. Though I hope this will also lead to Irish women gaining autonomy over their own bodies, too.

  12. 12.

    JPL

    May 23, 2015 at 1:12 pm

    @Professor: I think Kennedy and Roberts both vote for same-sex marriage.

  13. 13.

    Elmo

    May 23, 2015 at 1:17 pm

    I am a product of that benighted island, so long mired in superstition, bigotry, ignorance and cruelty. My grandparents fled to this country after the Easter Rising. My grandmother’s first language was Irish Gaelic, and a few words and phrases have made it down to me and my brothers. Irish history, culture and music were more a part of my upbringing than their American counterparts.

    And I am so, so proud of that heritage today.

  14. 14.

    Betty Cracker

    May 23, 2015 at 1:45 pm

    @Elmo: I’m a typical American mutt with ancestors from several European countries, but thanks to my dad’s recognizably Irish last name, Ireland is the one I’ve always identified with the most. I’m proud of it today too. ?

  15. 15.

    Major Major Major Major

    May 23, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I couldn’t have a more Irish name, although my primary cultural affiliation is Czech since that side of the family stayed ethnic. That said, I’ve been forced into the Irish-American role I suppose :)

    Good for Ireland! I was telling my parents, did you think growing up that you’d see the end of Apartheid, a reunified Berlin, peace in Ireland, *and* the effective end of the gay marriage fight, in your lifetimes?

  16. 16.

    Betty

    May 23, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    I listened to Irish politicians talking about how this happened and was brought to tears as they described the national conversation that led to this result. Just people recognizing the shared humanity of their brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, co-workers and friends. Why can’t we all do this?

  17. 17.

    RandomMonster

    May 23, 2015 at 2:06 pm

    I have honorary membership in the Irish tribe, bestowed upon me by Irish friends after attending two of their family’s weddings in Cork. I’m finding this news astounding and quite moving.

  18. 18.

    Betty Cracker

    May 23, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    Wow, the final vote totals — landslide!

  19. 19.

    Jay C

    May 23, 2015 at 2:13 pm

    @Betty:

    Why can’t we all do this?

    American Exceptionalism.

  20. 20.

    Baud

    May 23, 2015 at 2:14 pm

    Erin go Bragh

  21. 21.

    maurinsky

    May 23, 2015 at 2:14 pm

    @Elmo:

    My mother came over as a child and my father as an adult, and we were raised to consider ourselves Irish, not even Irish-American, really.

    Now, if they could just move forward on equal rights for women, particularly for bodily autonomy, they can move away from being the Mississippi of Europe.

  22. 22.

    Baud

    May 23, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    @Betty:

    We don’t have national referendums in this country. Even the presidential election is really the sum of 50 statewide elections.

  23. 23.

    Mandalay

    May 23, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I was telling my parents, did you think growing up that you’d see the end of Apartheid

    Don’t get too carried away on that; one nation is doing its damndest to bring back apartheid.

  24. 24.

    Mandalay

    May 23, 2015 at 2:22 pm

    @Betty:

    Why can’t we all do this?

    Because our betters would not like the results. Referendums on climate change, women’s rights, gay rights, Wall Street privilege, corporate power, immigration, military spending and the financing of politics would all repudiate the status quo.

    Then where would they be?

  25. 25.

    evap

    May 23, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    The spousal unit went home to Dublin to vote. One more reason why we will probably move to Ireland when we retire. Check out the twitter feed of @irishmammies — hilarious, and spot on!

    Ireland was also the first country to ban smoking in pubs and restaurants. This was equally astonishing at the time.

  26. 26.

    leeleeFL

    May 23, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    The rainbows are amazing, and make me wish I was in Ireland today! So proud of my fellows, being of extremely Irish descent. ERIN GO BRAGH!

  27. 27.

    rikyrah

    May 23, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    I’m glad it was decisive.

  28. 28.

    Betty

    May 23, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    @Baud: I was more impressed by the nature of the conversation rather than the electoral process. As one politician noted, the fact that it is a small country helped with the conversation. The “we” did not refer only to the US. I live in the Caribbean where homosexual acts remain criminalized, and talk of gay rights is widely mocked. Gay people remain mostly in the closet.

  29. 29.

    Bart

    May 23, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    I still recall that until the early 1990s the BBC weren’t allowed to let you hear Gerry Adams: so you saw footage of him, but his voice was replaced by someone else’s. Utter idiocy.

    Thinking back on it, it is astonishing what I’ve seen in the 44 years I’ve been on this earth. Massive shifts in all kinds of areas, things you couldn’t imagine mere years ago.

  30. 30.

    Cervantes

    May 23, 2015 at 4:38 pm

    @Bart:

    Not only the BBC: there was a similar, longer-standing ban in Ireland.

    When the Irish got rid of it in ’94, the Brits felt they had to get rid of their ban, too, and did so.

  31. 31.

    Mike in NC

    May 23, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    Congrats to all the gay leprechauns who can come out of the closet.

  32. 32.

    Tree With Water

    May 23, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    If the digital revolution figures prominently in the instant karma-like enlightenment of the Irish people, and it must, whose to say Bernie Sanders can’t be elected to the presidency?

  33. 33.

    NotMax

    May 23, 2015 at 5:13 pm

    Urgent Notice

    To: all libraries

    Refile The End of History as fiction, immediately.

  34. 34.

    daize

    May 23, 2015 at 5:23 pm

    If you haven’t already seen Brighid and Paddy, here is a link to their video and an article in the Times about the vote.

  35. 35.

    Gian

    May 23, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    people like the rituals. I went to a funeral yesterday, if you’re catholic and travel (say in the military) the rituals/events are the same where ever you go. But this puts a culture point on the whole thing, part of being Catholic Irish was not being Church of England

  36. 36.

    John Revolta

    May 23, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    So, didja hear about the two gay Irishmen?

    Michael Fitzpatrick and Patrick Fitzmichael!

    What? Too soon?

  37. 37.

    Shakezula

    May 23, 2015 at 8:47 pm

    Not so much a landslide as an entire mountain going for a brisk jog.

    Is Ross Douchehat weeping into his keyboard?

  38. 38.

    notorious JRT

    May 23, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    @Jay C:
    I feel we are moving that way faster than I ever expected although not fast enough.

  39. 39.

    pseudonymous in nc

    May 23, 2015 at 11:44 pm

    Northern Ireland still has a province-wide exemption on the UK equal marriage law, because of “sensitivity” towards the religious Protestants who are part of the power-sharing executive there. The republic hasn’t quite had a truth and reconciliation moment in terms of dealing with the de facto theocracy of post-independence decades, but it’s getting there.

    I still don’t think that human rights ought to be determined by popular vote, but I also recognise that in certain contexts it’s necessary — as in Ireland, where the status of the family is written into the constitution, and the constitution can only be amended by referendum.

  40. 40.

    Matt McIrvin

    May 24, 2015 at 8:17 am

    @Baud: Deciding basic civil rights by referendum is still a bad idea.

    But it’s worth remembering that we do do this here. Of the three US states that enacted marriage equality by referendum in 2012, two of them had larger populations than Ireland.

  41. 41.

    delosgatos

    May 24, 2015 at 10:41 am

    To say this is not a juxtaposition that someone watching Irish politics in, say the 80s, would have been able to imagine is to understatement as Velveeta is to food.

    Try as I might, I’m unable to decide if this sentence means what the author intends, or the opposite. :)

  42. 42.

    gorram

    May 24, 2015 at 9:11 pm

    @Gian: Especially within an Irish context (either in the Republic or outside), I think people miss that. Catholic doesn’t imply practicing or much of their opinion on theological, religious, or social matters, so much as how you feel about the UK and what your family history is (with being Protestant meaning you were either soupers or more likely settlers).

  43. 43.

    jomike

    May 25, 2015 at 1:27 am

    Dreher’s latest conniption is a hoot. Can’t wait to hear from Bobo and Douthat!

  44. 44.

    Eric

    May 25, 2015 at 2:01 am

    @John Revolta: One hopes not. An unsatisfied Irishman is not a pretty sight.

  45. 45.

    Eric

    May 25, 2015 at 2:06 am

    The fact that every constituency save one had a yes majority is stunning. Almost as stunning as the conciliatory tone coming from Church leaders in Eire.

    I’d like to point out, though, that while laws against homosexual sex were repealed only in 1993 that is still a decade before SCOTUS ended such laws in 17 states here.

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