Actual Senate guidance from Durbin's office to reporters today: "Roll call votes are possible after 6:00pm. Pack snacks."
— daveweigel (@daveweigel) May 31, 2015
Apparently the USA Freedom Act is now deemed of critical importance. But also, apparently, was going home for a week of recess.
— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) May 31, 2015
In violation of best storytelling principles, I’ll give you the results first. From the Guardian, “Patriot Act powers to lapse at midnight as Senate fails to agree on NSA reform“:
Republican senator Rand Paul forced at least a temporary shutdown of sweeping US surveillance powers on Sunday night after refusing to allow an accelerated vote on compromise legislation designed to more narrowly restrain the National Security Agency.
In a double blow for Washington security hawks, represented by embattled Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, it now looks likely that Congress will have to wait several days before passing that bill, the USA Freedom Act.
The reform legislation, which bans the NSA from collecting Americans’ telephone records in bulk, was initially opposed by McConnell. But with the clock ticking down toward the midnight expiration of broader powers initially granted after 9/11 under the Patriot Act, Republican leaders had few options but to get behind the bill as the best way of preserving other surveillance authority.
“This is now the only realistic way forward,” said McConnell as he conceded there was no longer time to seek alternatives to a version of the USA Freedom Act that was previously passed by the House of Representatives. Instead, the Senate majority leader is reluctantly embracing the House-passed bill to which he previously objected, only with the addition of what he called “a few modest amendments”.
McConnell’s concession was a tacit acknowledgement that the bulk collection of US phone records exposed in June 2013 by the Guardian, thanks to leaks from whistleblower Edward Snowden, will end.
The Senate voted 77 to 17 to proceed to debate on the USA Freedom Act. Even Paul, after the procedural vote, conceded that the bill will ultimately pass. “Tonight begins the process of ending bulk collection,” he said…
I very much doubt that any of the three-letter agencies consider this more than an annoying temporary glitch, but the Guardian earned their victory lap. And, as a Democratic partisan, it’s cheering to note that a bunch of Republican senators now have new grievances with each other, which is always fun to watch from a safe distance.
I’ve collected a bunch of the more entertaining tweets from earlier today, which I’ll put below the fold for those who find such quick hits confusing or annoying…
Reid calls NSA deadline "another manufactured crisis."
— Chad Pergram (@ChadPergram) May 31, 2015
In the Senate at the start of the #PatriotAct debate: Rep. Tom Massie, Rep. Justin Amash, 6 young guys wearing STAND WITH RAND shirts.
— daveweigel (@daveweigel) May 31, 2015
Sign of how strange a day this is? @ChuckGrassley is presiding over the Senate.
— Niels Lesniewski (@nielslesniewski) May 31, 2015
Reid blames NSA crisis not on Paul but on McConnell. Says McConnell "didn't have a plan."
— Chad Pergram (@ChadPergram) May 31, 2015
Literally has never been used. Not literally-as-in-figuratively; literally-as-in-literally.
(Feinstein statement) pic.twitter.com/wP88RyNLO0
— Spencer Ackerman (@attackerman) June 1, 2015
"We are here in a manufactured unnecessary crisis." – Leahy, Senate co-author of USA Freedom Act. Notes it had 58 votes in December.
— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) May 31, 2015
In middle of serious McConnell speech, Pat Roberts' cell phone goes off with the ringer to the "Frozen" song "Let it go"
— Manu Raju (@mkraju) May 31, 2015
In the debate over surveillance, the Senate majority leader shed his typical reserve http://t.co/OzJ4yyYqsh via @burgessev @mkraju
— POLITICO (@politico) May 31, 2015
Rand Paul tries to get the flr. Asks for how much time Coats has. McCain lectures Paul twice on not knowing "the rules of the Senate."
— Chad Pergram (@ChadPergram) May 31, 2015
McCain accuses Rand Paul of twice violating the rules of the Senate. It's getting hot in there. pic.twitter.com/QigJDF8KeG
— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) May 31, 2015
This would be a great time for senators to still have canes to whack each other with. https://t.co/0DR6vRvR2W
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) May 31, 2015
Repeat, Marco Rubio just voted to filibuster the only bill that could conceivably avoid a #PatriotAct surveillance expiration tonight.
— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) May 31, 2015
Rand Paul, in a nutshell … What if a terrorist calls Verizon to complain about a service issue?
— Niels Lesniewski (@nielslesniewski) May 31, 2015
McCain says Sen Paul's oppostion to renewing NSA pgms are a "successful fundraising exercise."
— Chad Pergram (@ChadPergram) May 31, 2015
Intel chairman Sen. Richard Burr, clearly annoyed: "There won't be any negotiations with Rand Paul from this point forward."
— daveweigel (@daveweigel) May 31, 2015
House sources tell me there are no plans for Hse to come back in emergency session tonight on NSA.
— Chad Pergram (@ChadPergram) May 31, 2015
Pizzas were just delivered to senators, which is the international sign for "ha ha nobody's getting home tonight" #PatriotAct
— daveweigel (@daveweigel) May 31, 2015
Common sense must trump conspiracy fantasy; the #PatriotAct helps protect our life and liberty.
— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 31, 2015
bro http://t.co/4piuIDlQUz https://t.co/TPsNV0oZiH
— Spencer Ackerman (@attackerman) May 31, 2015
“It’s not because I stand with Rand Paul…" – Susan Collins
“It wasn’t because I was voting with Rand…" – Thune
http://t.co/j8yGurMCSc
— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) June 1, 2015
Sen @RandPaul leaves the Capitol in a Tesla with license plate "NDFED" driven by Rep Massie (R-KY): pic.twitter.com/MXQKBHRBPL
— Frank Thorp V (@frankthorpNBC) May 31, 2015
As a reminder, the Senate once debated extending the #PatriotAct for about 20 seconds http://t.co/foXnhJpeAP
— Niels Lesniewski (@nielslesniewski) May 31, 2015
This is exactly the circumstance that House architects of USA Freedom Act kept insisting they would engineer to overcome Senate opposition.
— Spencer Ackerman (@attackerman) May 31, 2015
Rand's seriousness about any issue can be measured by the amount of branded merchandise he's devoted to it. pic.twitter.com/Wgb0ELXgVA
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) May 31, 2015
McCain says Rand Paul is the "worst" candidate Republicans could nominate. http://t.co/EEShYkvdOl via @mflemingsenate
— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) June 1, 2015
A few weeks back I asked McCain if he would endorse any R for president, including Rand Paul, vs. Hillary. He insisted he would. Now?
— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) May 31, 2015
I just remembered. Somewhere in an alternate universe where McCain won in 2008 & 2012, Sarah Palin is the president of the Senate.
— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) June 1, 2015
. @SenateMajLdr on calls for ending the NSA programs altogether: "We won’t be doing that."
— STEW (@StewSays) May 31, 2015
Reminder: At 8 p.m., order will go out to turn off the bulk metadata program and wall off the hard drives. Wyden is talking on the floor.
— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) May 31, 2015
By my count, 44 spectators still in the Senate chamber at 8:40 on Sunday night while literally absolutely nothing is happening.
— Ben Jacobs (@Bencjacobs) June 1, 2015
Patriot Act to expire at midnight, making patriotism officially illegal in America.
— Murtaza Hussain (@MazMHussain) May 31, 2015
It's about fucking time –> https://t.co/mJnq594VOk
— Billmon (@billmon1) May 31, 2015
Senate is adjourned. It's official: Patriot Act WILL EXPIRE.
— Mike DeBonis (@mikedebonis) June 1, 2015
If 29 sens don't yield an hour apiece to Rand or if he can't convince them to join him, McConnell plans to move to final vote by Tuesday
— Manu Raju (@mkraju) May 31, 2015
Dr. Bollixed
It can’t be a bad thing. And an interview I saw said it wouldn’t much change a thing. Except they (Gov.) might have to follow the law, the real law. At least for a couple days. Oh noes…..
rikyrah
I think that this is all a scam. Our 3 letter agencies will NOT lose their right to spy.
No way.
Omnes Omnibus
Holy fuck, is that everything from Twitter today?
Villago Delenda Est
Rand Paul, neo-feudalist scum, is fooling no one but the cretins that are the dudebros with his stance here.
He’s as much in need of a tumbrel ride as McConnell, McCain, or Huckleberry.
jl
So, Paul did a symbolic filibuster that he knew would fail ultimately, so we could have good and bad of Patriot Act come to full stop in a confused mess? McConnell has given into the House bill?
Is the House bill any good?
I haven’t had time to follow any of this.
Are there any Rand Paul filibuster starter kits left? Maybe I can buy them in bulk if they go to remainder bin and resell them to Paul acolytes at the truly massive and historic first Fox News GOP primary debate this summer.
NotMax
Repeating from below.
From EFF (good guys ‘n’ gals, they), re: USA Freedom act:
jl
@NotMax: thanks.
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: Sellouts.
/snark
Myiq2xu
@jl:
Apparently nobody except Marcy Wheeler has had time to cover this. None of the FPers here at BJ has taken a stand on the issue.
Partisanship aside, is this good or bad? I’m kinda extremist on civil liberties, so I see this as a good thing. Back when Bush was in office that was the consensus opinion around here. Then Obama flip-flopped on the FISA revision and suddenly nobody cared about domestic spying anymore.
Anne Laurie
@Omnes Omnibus: You should see how much to-and-fro’ing I didn’t include!
Valdivia
The GOP controlled Senate is even more ridiculously dysfunctional than I expected it to be.
Botsplainer
Thomas Fucking Massie (R-Koch), the guy who does utterly nothing for his sprawling district, knows nobody, yet he’s got so much national agenda Koch and dude to splooge on his pimply babyface chin that it has set up a rash.
Fuck him, and fuck Rand Paul.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anne Laurie: I am already agog, so let’s not.
@Myiq2xu: And you’re full of shit. As usual.
Tree With Water
“As a reminder, the Senate once debated extending the #PatriotAct for about 20 seconds”.
That one’s my favorite.
ruemara
This whole farce is cracking me up. Good on them. Their utter incompetence as legislators has finally done some good. We’ll see if it does major harm later on.
Omnes Omnibus
@Valdivia: Oddly, it merely meets my expectations. They really don’t do governance well at all.
Valdivia
@Omnes Omnibus: You took the words from my mouth. I was about to say: this is what you get when as a party not only do you not care about governing, you can’t even do it.
Anne Laurie
@Myiq2xu:
That’s a pretty generous “aside”, though. I’d like to see the Patriot Act expire and not be replaced, but I’d also like to lose weight without changing my eating or exercising habits, and that ain’t happening neither.
Until it appears there’s a genuine chance that agitation on a blog might move anyone’s opinions, then as a Democratic partisan I don’t see much point in re-re-stating my objections just to start another flame war. It’s the obverse of my taking mean delight in the spectacle of Rand Paul showboating for money, and annoying McCain & McConnell.
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: Their first album was the only quality work they did.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anne Laurie: Moi, on this, I tend to side with the EFF piece NotMax cited above.
@Gin & Tonic: I prefer the demo tapes.
jl
Memphis Slim celeste boogie-woogie is good for clearing the mind.
Memphis Slim-Celeste Boogie No. 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT19M6SpUwU
Mandalay
@Anne Laurie:
You know for sure that he doesn’t truly care about the legislation or principles involved in the slightest, and he is just showboating for money? And is Bernie Sanders also “showboating for money” on this issue?
Anne Laurie
@Omnes Omnibus: Me too aussi. But that doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy the spectacle of the Repubs hoist upon their own petards — using that word to mean both “incendiary device” and “fart”…
Smiling Mortician
@Mandalay: Rand Paul really does not equal Bernie Sanders. Plenty of evidence to demonstrate the differences.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mandalay: I stopped giving Republicans the benefit of a doubt a while ago.
@Anne Laurie: Oh, I don’t wish to deny anyone the pleasure of shading their freude.
Gin & Tonic
@jl: How about Meade “Lux” Lewis?
Valdivia
I haz a confused. So what happens next? Will the improved version endorsed by the EFF that @NotMax: mentioned above pass are we stuck with the old one? Or nothing?
@efgoldman: If only they did. I wonder if they thought actually governing was the same as saying no to everything.
kindness
Tomorrow’s Charles Pierce should be good.
jl
Boogie Woogie For Piano And Celeste
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0nIDNgjfLQ
Memphis Slim on celeste. Not sure who is on piano, Champion Jack Dupree I think but not sure.
Anne Laurie
@Mandalay:
If you can’t tell the difference between Prince Rand’s negotiable “principles” and Bernie’s, you just haven’t been paying attention.
Start with the fact that Rand didn’t run as a Libertarian, but as a Republican — just like his old man. Sanders has always called himself a Democratic Socialist, even when he (mostly) caucused with the Democrats.
jl
@Gin & Tonic: Thanks. I like the way he does the ‘bass line’ on the celeste, if you can call it that.
I wonder if there is any gamelon boogie?
Omnes Omnibus
@Valdivia: The present act ends tonight. The one that NotMax talked about will probably replace it. Terrists have a day or so of free rein. The lucky bastids.
sukabi
@rikyrah: they might lose the right to spy….doesn’t mean they’ll stop… seem to recall another program that was ordered to cease, was moved off site and continued.
srv
I can’t find a reason to support this program, but I’d rather focus my energies on calling Rand a pootie head.
Valdivia
@Omnes Omnibus: thanks for that explainer. So we all have
Freeeeeedom?
#sorrynotsorry
jl
Closest I could find to gamelon boogie. I think has kind of Memphis Slim feel to it.
Gending Musik Jawa (Gamelan Jawa)-Javanese Gamelan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwjXwEO8_NU
Valdivia
@jl: And here I am being the ultimate 80’s girl when your musical offerings are so not that. hhis.
@efgoldman: I think they don’t even know the difference anymore between posturing and what it actually takes to govern, which is why they’re always in a pickle when it comes time to pass bills.
Omnes Omnibus
@Valdivia: Pretty much. And every supermodel of the day managed to shoehorn into that video.
BTW: The Aquinas convo continues in its sad, sad form in the thread below.
KG
@efgoldman:
It has been said that there are two types of Senators: those who think they will one day be president and those who have lost a presidential primary. I’ve found that those two classifications typically hold up, with only a few exceptions.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman:
Whatever else he was, Sam was a partisan Democrat. He’d be giggling his ass off.
Valdivia
@Omnes Omnibus: It was like an episode of Style with Elsa Klensch with moodier stylings and better music. And yet, I still can’t help but swing my hips to it.
Grrr. How can I still be missing Aquinas even in sad form? That’s what I get for multitasking (half watching an expose on Argentinian TV about the murdered prosecutor).
jl
@Valdivia:
This has kind of an 80s sound to it. I have no idea what he is playing. Synthesizer they used for the pac man game?
Celeste’s Boogie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boWAlSOXCn8
Gin & Tonic
@Valdivia: I’d be interested in knowing what the expose exposes. Among my numerous Argentinian friends I do not believe I can count a solitary Kirchner supporter.
But at this point I’ve drank too much and think it’s time to step away from the keyboard.
Valdivia
@Gin & Tonic: it was really very interesting and disturbing. The CSI-like video by the police in which the guys are not wearing gloves at all, and then clean the gun with toilet paper (erasing any prints and dna, etc). Also a dead guy who accessed his computer five hours after “killing himself”. This whole thing stinks, but hard to know exactly how and why. More tomorrow if you are interested. Night night.
MomSense
@jl:
A sillybuster.
Omnes Omnibus
@Valdivia: You can stop down. Dog knows that you can’t make it worse. As far as the video goes, enjoyed it. I have a weird soft spot sport for George Michael based on dancing with a really wonderful person to Careless Whisper back in ’84. She wasn’t particularly attractive, but she was one of the most decent and kind people I have ever met.
jl
@MomSense: thanks.I’ll remember that the next time Rand pulls one.
Valdivia
@jl: :) that is its own cool kind of thing and I enjoyed it.
@MomSense: bravo, perfect coinage right there.
@Omnes Omnibus: same soft spot here, had my first slow dance ever to that song but mine was a bit of a cad. Still, first slow dance, makes an impression.
srv
An oldie but goodie.
BJ commenter Al Maviva and GG get into a debate about domestic spying, FISA et al in 2005. Commenters confused, because they thought DougJ was Al M. DougJ reveals his true inspiration.
Omnes Omnibus
@Valdivia: Actually, I was “a bit of a cad” being decent. I couldn’t let no one dance with her. My real first music thing with a girl was lipsyncing to Paradise by the Dashboard Light. She went on to be semi-famous.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@efgoldman:
Rand Paul is the guy who held a filibuster against drones and then said the very next day that he saw no problem with the government using drones to kill liquor store robbers. So, yeah, not much principle there other than “what do Republican voters want to hear today?”
Valdivia
@Omnes Omnibus: Of course you were :)
But also, a true mensch that you did that. Have to ask, if you don’t mind, were you lip syncing together or lipsynch serenading her? (that song is perfect for a duet)
Music-things. Probably Careless Whisper wouldn’t be the first on my list, even if it was a first. Now you got me thinking.
Suzanne
Rand Paul is a clown. I enjoyed watching him grandstand on CNN earlier today. I eagerly look forward to the shitshow that will ensue.
catclub
And how many nations besides the obligatory Iran and Ukraine are smoking ruins? How many economies?
Omnes Omnibus
@Valdivia: Together. We took turns with the parts.
kc
Guess who’s asking for donations now. Wants $10 million.
http://www.gofundme.com/JonRitzheimer
danielx
Safe distance from these bozos? Hmmmm….Bondi Beach sounds about right, since the Republican conference in the Senate is becoming damn near as dysfunctional and rabid as its counterpart in the House. Which does not bode well for anybody since only Jeebus knows what the crazies are apt to come up with next. Their dream world is one in which Tom Cotton is Secretary of State under a yet to be named Republican president. Picture a world in which the Senate looks like the Wisconsin legislature…each Republican legislator being chaperoned by his or her own personal shoggoth with several Karl Rove faces, specially bred in a Koch-funded underground lab to smite enemies and eat the livers of those who think history didn’t stop in the 1950s….
Clearly my imagination is on overtime this evening.
Valdivia
@Omnes Omnibus: See that is a worthy music-thing with a girl. I would probably blush infrared if I tried singing (even lip synching). Why karaoke only happens when I am +a few. Dancing, not a problem.
El Caganer
@catclub: All of them, Katie
Valdivia
@kc: the grift, always and forever not far behind.
Omnes Omnibus
@Valdivia: Will this work?
The Republic of Stupidity
@kc: Indeed… indeed…
And in 11 hours (that would be ‘eleben’ to some folks) 6 people have donated $300 towards that $10MM… that’s approximately $27/hr which means that Jon will reach his goal in just al little under 42 years…
Carolinus
@Mandalay:
He may or may not care, but he’s also not helping by filibustering everything. There never was even close to the votes for sunsetting of the expiring Patriot provisions. If you compare the Nay votes from tonight’s cloture vote you can see that there’s only 3 that also voted Nay on cloture for S. 1357, which was the clean Patriot Act provisions extension. All the rest were in the McConnell faction that was against any reform to the Section 215 programs. Those meager 3 votes speak to how vanishingly tiny the Senate constituency was for total expiration.
It would have been tactically more effective for those Senators (including Paul) who wanted to reform Section 215 as much as possible to not filibuster the earlier EFF backed iteration of the USA Freedom Act. If that previous bill hadn’t failed by two votes last year, a version of the bill with stronger, more robust reforms would have been law for half a year already.
Here’s EFF comparing last year’s iteration of the bill with the current one:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/new-usa-freedom-act-step-right-direction-more-must-be-done
And here’s an article that notes the open amendments process for last year’s version of the bill:
http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/why-did-bill-nelson-vote-against-nsa-reform-20141119
Steeplejack
@Valdivia, @Omnes Omnibus:
Oh, you crazy kids. Whenever I hear “Yesterday” I get a Proustian taste of hairspray as I remember dancing with Donna Winters in the basement of an Episcopalian church.
Valdivia
@Omnes Omnibus: Isn’t that the song we were discussing memorial day?
@Steeplejack: Big grin. A recherche du temps perdu, who knew they would taste of hairspray?
Steeplejack
@catclub:
Well, ours, for sure. Nation and economy.
Steeplejack
@Valdivia:
Christ, now I’m listening to “Heart of Stone” and thinking of reopening my investigation into the death of Brian Jones. I’ve got to nip this in the bud.
Night-night, all.
Valdivia
@Steeplejack: yes, same here, except I am listening to Spanish 80s pop and that is as embarrassing as it gets for me. Talk about guilty pleasures. Buenas noches!
Frankensteinbeck
@Mandalay:
You ask a very important question, and in this case the answer is ‘yes’. Rand Paul’s history of telling different groups different things is drastically clear. Relevant to this case, as @Mnemosyne (tablet) mentioned above, is when he was against Drones for about 24 hours, then was for killing gas station robbers in America with them. I remember more vividly the night he got the nomination to run for Senator in Kentucky, when he pledged to the Tea Partiers who pushed him through that he would never tack to the center. The next morning, in his first general election speech to the whole state, he said he had always been a moderate.
Louise
I first skimmed over the first daveweigel tweet and thought that “6 young Amish guys” had stood up with Rep. Tom Massie to protest, and I thought, “how did the Amish guys get there? Are there horses and buggies parked outside Capitol Hill?”
That would have been a good story.
fuckwit
@jl: That’s a 60s sound, not 80s, though some bands (B-52s!) brought it back in the 80s. It’s a transistor combo organ! A Vox Continental (The Doors), or a Farfisa. Cheezysounding little plastic things. More like an electronic accordion than an organ (Farfisa was actually an accordion manufacturer before they got into transistor organs)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_Continental
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farfisa
That’s a great boogie woogie track too. Nice.
Mike J
@fuckwit: A Leslie. (rotating horn in the speaker).
David Koch
@Frankensteinbeck: right. this is a guy who said he would defend Israel and then flip flopped and said he would be it’s biggest supporter, then he lied about it.
Then on ISIS he first said, “we should not put any U.S. troops on the ground in Iraq…. For the small group calling for boots on the ground—how can we ask our brave men and women to risk their lives for a country the Iraqis aren’t willing to fight for themselves?”
Then he flip flopped issuing a declaration of war on ISIS:
So Baby Doc was against Israel before he was for it, denying he was ever against it and then he was against fighting ISIS before personally declaring war on ISIS.
Tree With Water
Does anyone actually believe the NSA (et.al.) feel bound by U.S. law?
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Valdivia: For me, dancing pretty much never happens. I’ve taken dance classes and I simply cannot get my feet to move the way I want them to. I suppose I could if I really dedicated a lot of time to it, but “a lot” would be months of classes multiple times a week. Austistic bodies just don’t move in coordinated fashions.
Karakoe I’ll do in the right company. I had a blast going out to karakoe clubs in Xi’an with my students a couple of years ago. Karakoe in China does not in any way resemble karakoe in any place I’ve seen it here in the States, where it’s a whole bar going at it, rather than parties going on in smaller rooms.
Given the incredibly upper middle class, unaware of the proles makeup of my students, I really wanted do some real punk, even though I’m not much of a fan of the genre. (Sorry, Omnes.) I was really hoping to drop “Guns of Brixton” on them, but, unsurprisingly, the only Clash song on any of the machines I saw was “Should I Stay or Should I Go.” No, thanks. So I stuck with Queen and Dire Straits, mostly.
Amir Khalid
Some Malay pop for everyone’s listening pleasure, Ramli Sarip’s Nyanyian Serambi.
ruemara
@Carolinus: funny how Rand is getting credit for protecting our metadata freedumbs and yet is doing the farthest thing from it.
Tree With Water
Juan Cole at Informed Comment.com notes this:
“Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) has vowed to force the expiration of the so-called PATRIOT Act on Sunday. Paul is right that it is unconstitutional and in this regard he is a better constitutional scholar than Barack Obama, whose stance on this issue is, to say the least, disappointing.
Obama is not interested in the Fourth Amendment. PBS Frontline says that the National Security Agency didn’t even bother to read him into its massive domestic surveillance program until 2010, two years into his first term, and that when they did, he just sat there and nodded approval. You have to wonder if they are blackmailing him in some way, though there isn’t any reason think that. This kind of surveillance is corrosive of democracy, because we can never trust elected politicians on whom the super-spies might have dirt.
The so-called PATRIOT Act was pushed as an anti-terrorism measure after 9/11, but it was never about terrorism. The bureaucrats and the GOP had clearly had such an assault on civil liberties and the US Constitution prepared in the 1990s. Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) once told me the story of how this 1100 page bill was dropped on all the congressmen and women late one afternoon and then they were expected to vote on it the next day. He doubted that anyone even read it. But the point is that the bill was off the shelf and ready to go. It was a preexisting conspiracy…”.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Tree With Water: I suspect that Barack Obama has a much more informed view on the constitutionality of the PATRIOT Act than Juan Cole does. Where did Cole get his JD and which law school faculty was he on as a scholar on constitutional law?
That not dispositive, but it is a real hurdle to overcome. By my non-expert reading of the court precedents, Obama has the better of the argument. That may mean that the courts have a lousy opinion about the subject, but in terms of the rest of us trying to decide what is and isn’t constitutional, it is an even higher hurdle. Those arguing that the PATRIOT Act is unconstitutional are trying to change the legally established interpretation of the constitution.
ETA: I should say that I wish them luck in this attempt to redefine the constitution, but that is what they are trying to do. And I think that position requires a different emphasis.
fuckwit
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym: Juan Cole is a middle east expert. He knows a shit-ton about politics and history in the region and Islamic law and history. He’s a go-to guy on issues associated with the middle east. Always appreciate his perspective and he knows the nuances and details of the various groups involved in conflicts there.
But American constiutional law? Meh. Not his area of expertise. Obama certainly has better credentials on that.
Tree With Water
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I wish us all luck, because ours is a republic where faith in institutions of power is essential to governance. I daresay like most Americans, I don’t trust any of the bastards any farther than I can spit- and no amount of constitutional sounding mumbo jumbo is going to change that fact, either.
Carolinus
@Tree With Water:
The Obama administration actually terminated the one of the more objectionable parts of Bush era Section 215 collection after lobbying by Sen. Wyden & Udall. That was the bulk e-mail header metadata side of the program, and it was mothballed back in 2011 (years prior to the Snowden leaks). See:
http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-udall-statement-on-the-disclosure-of-bulk-email-records-collection-program
opiejeanne
@Gin & Tonic: Cow Cow Davenport is on that album!
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Tree With Water: You just expressed the broader attitude of the American people that liberals tend not to understand and that is, in fact, quite destructive. Liberals look at some of the polls and see that Americans express agreement with them on specific policy questions. They then fail to look at other polls that show that Americans absolutely do not trust government to implement those policies and that any attempt to give government power will be abused.
Your attitude that you don’t trust anyone of them farther than you can spit is only death to the progressive movement. Following that attitude will not ever take you in the directions you claim to want to go. It will only lead to Americans to refuse to give government any power except that which they are scared as hell not to give it. Which means that you’ll get more of the PATRIOT Act and less economic redistribution.
Spend time figuring out where you can trust them and frame your arguments in ways other than just not trusting government. If you refuse to trust any of them, do us all a favor and shut up and go home, because you’re hurting us.
David Koch
@ruemara: Baby Doc strongly protects basic freedoms of everyone, except blacks, latinos, gays, and women.
Zinsky
Hers hoping grumpy Grandpa McCain has a massive stroke very soon…
Baud
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
Yep.
Patricia Kayden
@Myiq2xu: If the Patriot Act ends up lapsing, I’d assume that would be a good thing. There must be a less intrusive way to monitor the conversations of pro-ISIS/terrorist Americans. The Patriot Act appears to give the government too much surveillance power over ordinary citizens.
Another Holocene Human
Love twitter, where Paulheads are leghumping Paul for Massie’s car. Anyone else find it funny, not funny ha ha, how the Rep from King Coal drives an electric car?
(a: coal is sold to power plants, b: coal is sold to factories, c: the wealthy want to opt out from the high energy prices and energy shocks coming from peak oil–someone on twitter is claiming Massie charges the car with solar, d: leg-humpers are slobbering about how it’s so green, take that Dems, e: ahem, Joe Biden rode THE FUCKING AMTRAK powered by hydro, on reusable mass transit equipment SHOVE UP YOUR ASSES, HUMPERS)
Another Holocene Human
Oh, sweet. That got a belly laugh from me.
danielx
@Tree With Water:
Is this a trick question?
BruceFromOhio
Yet another measure of the end of civilization as we know it.
Myiq2xu
@Anne Laurie: So you admit your principles are secondary to partisanship.
Valdivia
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym: See for me singing does not come very naturally, which dancing seems to do. There quite a few karaoke places in downtown nyc (mostly chinatown) that are the way you describe: the whole room does it, not separate rooms. The last time I went to do karaoke was in Helsinki, the bar was located at what had been the restroom of the dockworkers who built the port, and it was mostly Russians there. Everyone was singing Eurovision pop, I sang Son of a Preacherman which was the only song I knew from what they had to offer :)
Anne Laurie
@Myiq2xu:
No, I admit that “partisanship” is one of my principles. As it is for you, but you’re dishonest.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@Mandalay:
Ah. You’re an aPaulogist. That explains your idiocy.
Did sanders ever qualify “drones are bad” with “unless somebody is looting a liquor store”? (paraphrased, because I’m not going to research paul’s actual mewelings.)
Chris
@David Koch:
Good God, I hate that meme.
Small wonder that it would be Ayn Rand Paul’s cup of tea.