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You are here: Home / No más

No más

by John Cole|  June 2, 20158:58 pm| 119 Comments

This post is in: Get off my grass you damned kids

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I want to live in a world where I can turn on the tv and not have to listen to a bunch of people talk about Caitlyn Jenner. Not because it icks me out or because I think it is weird, but because I am sick and tired of people not minding their own god damned business and the role people’s bigotries have in shaping policy. Why does anyone care? The only people who should care about Jenner’s sexuality are Jenner and whoever chooses to get in bed with her.

She’s an American and she’s a human, and that should all that matters to make sure that she has the same rights and gets the same amount of human dignity and respect that everyone else gets.

Also, I feel like shit still.

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Reader Interactions

119Comments

  1. 1.

    celticdragonchick

    June 2, 2015 at 9:03 pm

    Rod Dreher is havng a nervous breakdown that Caitlyn Jenner is violating 3,000 year old Greek Ontology and bring about the end of Christian America, and Huckabee is having pervy fantasies about leering at teen girls in the shower and passing them off onto trans women.

    Been a great day otherwise.

  2. 2.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2015 at 9:03 pm

    John –
    Sorry you’re still feeling lousy, I hope you’re through it ASAP.

    Asshole that I am, I don’t give a rat’s ass about Jenner. As far as I’m concerned, Jenner (when she was Bruce) had a spot in the “Asshole” file since shortly after winning his gold medal.

  3. 3.

    Woodrowfan

    June 2, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    a good remedy would be more doggie pics….

  4. 4.

    celticdragonchick

    June 2, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    @SFAW: I have no idea what her personality was before transition. I did watch her win the decathalon in 1976 (the first Olympics I had watched as a kid) and grew up with Bruce Jenner on Wheaties boxes. That is all I knew.

  5. 5.

    celticdragonchick

    June 2, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    Also, hope you start feeling better, John.

    As a side note…I started looking for my surgeon for gender reassignment surgery today. Competency and accepting medicare are the two primary stipulations. Dreher and Huckabee can enjoy a nice, frosty mug of STFU.

  6. 6.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    June 2, 2015 at 9:09 pm

    I hope you feel better soon. Please tell Shawn we’ve asked after him. Some dog and Steve pictures would be appreciated. Word is that geg6 sent you some Lovey pics to post.

    But mostly, feel better.

    @celticdragonchick: Here’s wishing you the combination presenting soon.

  7. 7.

    geg6

    June 2, 2015 at 9:10 pm

    @Woodrowfan:

    Agreed. He should steal the latest I posted of Lovey on FB. I’m not sending him any more because he never posts them. Probably will email them to AL. She’s more reliable. ;-)

  8. 8.

    geg6

    June 2, 2015 at 9:12 pm

    @celticdragonchick:

    Oh, good luck in your search!

  9. 9.

    M. Bouffant

    June 2, 2015 at 9:13 pm

    Honest to gawd, shouldn’t we all have gotten over it or wised up or shut up after Christine Jorgensen in 1952?

  10. 10.

    Gravenstone

    June 2, 2015 at 9:14 pm

    On the topic of Jenner overload, I had to quash a post from a friend on Facebook. He was linking to some jackass who took exception to Jenner being called “brave” for making her transition. Seemed to this clown, the only truly “brave” folks are our eternally fellated and mythologized military. *sigh*

  11. 11.

    Joel

    June 2, 2015 at 9:14 pm

    Also, I haven’t got enough fucks to give about some family whose claim to fame is ????

    OJ trial, I guess?

  12. 12.

    jharp

    June 2, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    If Ms. Jenner is helping other transgender folks assimilate and feel better about themselves then by all means put her on the TV.

    Otherwise don’t.

  13. 13.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 2, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    Rod Dreher and Mike Fuckabee can go gargle drain cleaner.

    Part of the problem is Jenner keeps holding press conferences and the parasite slime of the media can’t resist the candy.

    I give some negative number of fucks about Caitlyn/Bruce Jenner. Really.

  14. 14.

    Corner Stone

    June 2, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    Not because it icks me out or because I think it is weird, but because I am sick and tired of people not minding their own god damned business and the role people’s bigotries have in shaping policy. Why does anyone care?

    I, personally, do not have a lot of interest in this very public transition. But I read a piece on Grantland earlier saying this was a very big deal to the trans community. It made the whole denigration about who trans people were kind of come into focus as real people, and not just punching bags.
    I’m not speaking for any perspective, just thought that said more than this just being a spectacle.

  15. 15.

    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader

    June 2, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    Yer just jealous Jenner looks nicer in a dress than you do. Put your claws away, Kitty.

  16. 16.

    PurpleGirl

    June 2, 2015 at 9:16 pm

    @Woodrowfan: Yes. John promised us doggie pictures last night.

  17. 17.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 2, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    @Gravenstone: We current and former military types are of course much braver than Dick Cheney or Ted Nugent.

  18. 18.

    Major Major Major Major

    June 2, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    Jenner’s sexuality has nothing to do with her gender or gender expression, John.

  19. 19.

    Central Planning

    June 2, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    Sorry to go off-topic, but is anybody else having a problem with FYWP?

    On my Mac, both Chrome and Firefox lock up when going to balloon-juice.com – the page doesn’t finish loading and prevents me from clicking on any links. Chrome eventually times out and asks me if I want to wait or kill the page.

    Safari seems to work. Anyone else having problems or is it just me?

  20. 20.

    Valdivia

    June 2, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    I hope you feel better soon John.
    It’s so revealing to see how people have reacted to her. But like you I wish it wasn’t a 24/7 media event.

  21. 21.

    Corner Stone

    June 2, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    @Joel: Bruce Jenner is a separate person than the reality TV horde. He actually accomplished quite a bit.
    His life, and now her journey shouldn’t be put into the same box, IMO.

  22. 22.

    Major Major Major Major

    June 2, 2015 at 9:18 pm

    @celticdragonchick: good luck! And all the best

  23. 23.

    Elie

    June 2, 2015 at 9:18 pm

    Feel better, John!

    I can barely stand watching the news anymore for even a few minutes. Besides “Caitlyn”, there are people stuck in rollercoasters and skiers falling in crevaces. No discussion or examination of the real choices and complexities of being a citizen and human being. I can’t stand it…

  24. 24.

    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader

    June 2, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    @Elie: “Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.” – Eleanor Roosevelt

  25. 25.

    Mike S.

    June 2, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    While I share John’s ‘Jenner fatigue’, it is not merely a private matter for Jenner – because Jenner elected to do a TV interview several weeks ago, because Jenner elected to do a high profile magazine photo shoot.

    It’s not a private matter, and that was Jenner’s choice, the media circus was part of the chosen package.

  26. 26.

    Baud

    June 2, 2015 at 9:23 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader:

    What about minds that discuss pets and sports and music and gardening on Sunday morning and shows on BBC and PBS?

  27. 27.

    Major Major Major Major

    June 2, 2015 at 9:24 pm

    Ok, this isn’t hard.

    1. Don’t judge a woman based on her appearance.

    2. Use the right name and pronoun, it’s quite easy.

    3. If the trans community tells me something is a big deal and good, I defer to their opinion.

  28. 28.

    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader

    June 2, 2015 at 9:24 pm

    I wish Jenner would have done this forty years ago. He would have been a hot little piece of ass, ya know, for those who are into that sorta thing.

  29. 29.

    JPL

    June 2, 2015 at 9:25 pm

    This is the problem that I have with Jenner/Jenner… don’t make money off it. Support trans but you don’t have to
    do it for money. btw I hate reality shows.

  30. 30.

    PurpleGirl

    June 2, 2015 at 9:25 pm

    @Valdivia: Evening. I finally remembered the name of scifi fan who made buttons and made the “Anything purple is mine” button.

    Nancy Lebowitz.
    NancyButtons.com

  31. 31.

    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader

    June 2, 2015 at 9:26 pm

    @Baud: “Fuck you, Douchenozzle.” – Eleanor Roosevelt.

  32. 32.

    Baud

    June 2, 2015 at 9:26 pm

    @Central Planning:

    I sometimes have problems with a script on this site that hangs up firefox in Windows.

  33. 33.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 2, 2015 at 9:26 pm

    I’m tired of hearing about it too, but as a media junkie I get sick of stories quick, my own fault, and if all the publicity helps one transgender kid cope with the feelings of being different, stops one suicide, then it’s all good.

    There was a This American Life a few years ago about two little boys who ID’d as girls. I forget how they met, but they got to have a playdate, and a sleepover, where no one would be mean to them or treat them like freaks. One of the kid’s fathers broke down in tears about his child finding such a small piece of happiness. It was heartbreaking.

    And I’m not as tired of the Jenner story as I am about FIFA. I just really don’t fucking care.

  34. 34.

    JPL

    June 2, 2015 at 9:26 pm

    Where are the puppy pics that you promised us?

  35. 35.

    Baud

    June 2, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader:

    That’s so her.

  36. 36.

    JPL

    June 2, 2015 at 9:28 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: money, money, money

  37. 37.

    fuckwit

    June 2, 2015 at 9:32 pm

    I’m generally anti Jenner, Back in the 70s when she was a he, he was the prototypiical media addict. Famous mostly for being famous, like a guest on Hollywood Squares. Face on Wheaties box, after one medal, he made himself out ot be a much bigger deal than he was. No surprise that much later in life his new family pioneered the reality show genre and rode it to the top. That whole family, just addicted to attention.

    That said, bravo for coming out and if her actions do anything to help the trans community, then she’s userd her media addiction to accomplish something valuable for the human race. I’m not sure it’s on the level of John and Yoko’s bed-in for peace or Tim Leary’s governor’s campaign, but maybe for the trans community it is all that and more, so, again, glad she did it.

    And, finally, maybe all that misery of being incorrectly gendered is what drove her to seek so much attention for so long, as if it were all a huge long cry for help, so, if now she can be at peace in her correct gender identity, great. If that theory is correct, she’ll disappear from view soon– she’ll be happy, and thus not need the attention anymore.

  38. 38.

    celticdragonchick

    June 2, 2015 at 9:32 pm

    @geg6:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    Thank you :)

  39. 39.

    Corner Stone

    June 2, 2015 at 9:33 pm

    @fuckwit:

    Face on Wheaties box, after one medal, he made himself out ot be a much bigger deal than he was.

    …

  40. 40.

    NotMax

    June 2, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    Give her her 15 minutes. In its own way it raises the consciousness of the troglodytes. Not in any way saying the underlying circumstances of the two disclosures are analogous, but recall how Rock Hudson’s confirmation of AIDS helped drag the public’s perceptions and views in a positive direction.

    Somehow don’t recall Chelsea Manning appearing on the any glossy cover.

    Also too, Annie Leibovitz could make Jon Lovitz look super attractive.

  41. 41.

    Andrew

    June 2, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    Move to Japan, I read your post and scratched my head, who’s Caitlyn Jenner? (Don’t answer that)

  42. 42.

    celticdragonchick

    June 2, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Thanks!

  43. 43.

    raven

    June 2, 2015 at 9:35 pm

    @Central Planning: Safari has been it for me for weeks.

  44. 44.

    celticdragonchick

    June 2, 2015 at 9:37 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Not really (at least in the breast augmentation). She looks proportionate to me. Many trans girls go for porn star size breasts when they get top surgery and I know at least one who had to go back and get them reduced afterwards.

  45. 45.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2015 at 9:37 pm

    @JPL: I asked the kid a few weeks ago, why Kim Kardashian(who had an illusion of running for mayor my little village) is famous. She said, she did a sex tape and has a big butt.

  46. 46.

    jl

    June 2, 2015 at 9:37 pm

    @Woodrowfan:

    ” a good remedy would be more doggie pics…. ”

    I agree. I don’t care whether I hear about Jenner or not, so either way does not bother me, you can not listen or change the channel.

    Watch this instead:
    Cat In A Shark Costume Chases A Duck While Riding A Roomba
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of2HU3LGdbo

    There is a dog on shark costume too, but it is just standing around.

  47. 47.

    celticdragonchick

    June 2, 2015 at 9:39 pm

    @fuckwit: Winning the Decathalon really was a pretty big deal at the time. It still is for most people.

  48. 48.

    namekarB

    June 2, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    As a dog, I don’t give a rat’s axx about the medias’s shiny new attention grabbing stories.

    Squirrel !!

  49. 49.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 2, 2015 at 9:41 pm

    @Corner Stone: Broke the world record that he (at that time) had set at the Olympic Trials. I was living in Newtown, CT at the time – it’s where Jenner lived during high school. Everything in town was all Jenner all the time for about a year.

  50. 50.

    Valdivia

    June 2, 2015 at 9:41 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Is this the episode?

    ETA: sounds like the one you mentioned is a different one, this is about teenagers and the difficulty of being transgender

  51. 51.

    BruceFromOhio

    June 2, 2015 at 9:42 pm

    Gotta fill the cable hours with something between stories of Florida Man, runaway brides, and BENGHAZI!!11!1!11!!!eleventy!!!

    Warmer, dryer weather en route, hope you feel better soon. Just finished 10 rounds with something similar. It was looking like a TKO for a bit, until meds.Still sleeping like the dead, though.

  52. 52.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 2, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    @celticdragonchick:

    The best of success to you. I hope it goes well, and that your surgical team meets all your criteria.

    And if you end up on the cover of Vanity Fair, I warn you, be prepared for some weird and offensive commentary from the Faux News team. Just a heads-up.

  53. 53.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 2, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    @geg6:

    I saw the FB picture, and even though I’m not normally the squeeing type, you could hear me go SQUEE from Duluth* to Athens**.

    *Georgia, not Minnesota
    **Georgia, not Greece

  54. 54.

    srv

    June 2, 2015 at 9:47 pm

    I am willing to turn The Bieber, Kardashians, Jenners, Duggars and Donald Trump over to ISIS in exchange for peace.

    Who can negotiate this?

  55. 55.

    lamh36

    June 2, 2015 at 9:47 pm

    the blame is not totally the media for the overload though. Caitlyn’s reveal comes just in time for promotions of Jenners E! reality show. so u out can expect neverending stories on it as soon as the reality show comes out

    I posted this last night but I’ll repost it here too.

    I have a good friend who is a Lesbian and who is an LGBT activist. We’ve been discussing the idea about Transgender identity and adhering to the same “standards of beauty” that cis-woman do.

    In other words, getting away from the more celeb obsessed aspect of Caitlyn Jenner, what she has been saying is, so what if like a number of Transgender woman and men Caitlyn wasn’t “beautiful” or didn’t adhere to the “standards of beauty” that so many cis female try to adhere to….would the reactions be the same?

    I suspect not. she was encouraged that Caitlyn found her truth, but she also hoped it would lead to real discussion past just saying “oh she’s beautiful”. My friends supposition was ok, supposed Caitlyn had chosen to do a more “true to life” shoot than the soft lighting and airbrush aspect of so much of Annie Leibowitz fashion photography.

    I mean, not all transgender people have the resources of someone like a Caitlyn Jenner or the “glam squad” that is afforded a rich celeb.

    @IjeomaOluo: I’m very happy for Caitlyn Jenner & wish her the best. I also wish for visibility & respect for trans people who do not have the resources..

    @IjeomaOluo: I really wish that people in marginalized groups didn’t have to be “beautiful” for people to realize that they ARE beautiful

  56. 56.

    Germy Shoemangler

    June 2, 2015 at 9:49 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader:
    “Those who can… do. Those who can’t… teach. Those who can’t teach…. teach gym.”
    – Woody Allen

  57. 57.

    Tenar Darell

    June 2, 2015 at 9:50 pm

    @jl: That’s one of my favorites. Because the cat is so calm, sitting on the roomba. She even made it into the Delta safety memish video.

  58. 58.

    raven

    June 2, 2015 at 9:52 pm

    Outside of a book a dog is a man’s best friend, inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.

    good night

  59. 59.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 2, 2015 at 9:55 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Yeah, I’m cool with Caitlyn Jenner’s transition. Her body, her life, her choice. I am less comfortable with the idea that she and/or her relatives and associates are making a fuckton of money off this very private and personal decision. I’m old-fashioned, and IMO some things just shouldn’t be monetized.

    But that said, I’m sickened and furious with the Huckabees and Fox News types who are pointing and mocking and condemning. Fuck them all with one of asiangrrlmn‘s patented rusty farm implements.

  60. 60.

    lamh36

    June 2, 2015 at 9:57 pm

    Laverne Cox Wants You to Celebrate Caitlyn Jenner, But Remember There’s Work to Be Done

    …

    Almost exactly a year ago, Cox was featured on the cover of Time magazine and, much like Jenner, Cox was celebrated for her beauty and the symbolic victory the magazine cover represented.

    But in a Tumblr post that went live shortly after midnight Tuesday, Cox warned the trans experience is much more than a dramatic physical transformation and only celebrating the women for their beauty can be inherently harmful to the trans cause.

    “What I think [people praising Cox’s beauty] meant is that in certain lighting, at certain angles I am able to embody certain cisnormative beauty standards,” Cox wrote…

    It’s so much more than a magazine cover. The trans experience consists of a lot more than conforming to “cisnormative beauty standards.” Jenner and Cox are unusually privileged in resources and public support. Other trans men and women might not have the ability to transform themselves physically the way these two women have. …

  61. 61.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2015 at 9:59 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Fuck them all with one of asiangrrlmn‘s patented rusty farm implements.

    She patented them? She must be making bank on that, no wonder we rarely see her around here anymore. Too good for us schmucks.

  62. 62.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 2, 2015 at 10:00 pm

    @jl:

    There is a dog on shark costume too, but it is just standing around.

    Yeah, see, that right there is why some of us are Cat People.

  63. 63.

    Germy Shoemangler

    June 2, 2015 at 10:02 pm

    another 19th-century fable by ambrose bierce:

    The Overlooked Factor

    A Man that owned a fine Dog, and by a careful selection of its mate had bred a number of animals but a little lower than the angels, fell in love with his washerwoman, married her, and reared a family of dolts.

    “Alas!” he exclaimed, contemplating the melancholy result, “had I but chosen a mate for myself with half the care that I did for my Dog I should now be a proud and happy father.”

    “I’m not so sure of that,” said the Dog, overhearing the lament. “There’s a difference, certainly, between your whelps and mine, but I venture to flatter myself that it is not due altogether to the mothers. You and I are not entirely alike ourselves.”

  64. 64.

    kc

    June 2, 2015 at 10:04 pm

    Shouldn’t you be shaming her for displaying her ta-tas on the cover of Vanity Fair, Cole? I mean, she’s 65, for christ’s sake. Way older than JLo.

  65. 65.

    lamh36

    June 2, 2015 at 10:05 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: oh… this Faux News, defenders of pedophiles?

    Megyn Kelly Slams Media For Linking Josh Duggar To GOP Candidates (VIDEO)

    Fox News host Megyn Kelly on Monday night bashed media coverage of the Duggar family following allegations that Josh Duggar molested underage girls while he was a teenager.

    After playing a CNN clip noting that several Republicans have posed for pictures with Josh Duggar in the past, Kelly lambasted the media for “trying to make this the problem of the Republican presidential field.”

    “Bill Clinton was accused of rape. He has been accused by several women of sexually assaulting them,” Kelly said. “But the fact that a presidential candidate has posed with some random member of the family that’s going through this issue is somehow a problem for the GOP’ers?”

    Fox’s Howard Kurtz, a guest on “The Kelly File,” said he was “disgusted by how some liberal media types are using what’s obviously a family tragedy to score political points.”…

    “This isn’t going to be a cross-examination of a family. It’s going to be an interview. I want to hear their story. And I think America wants to hear their story now,” she said….

  66. 66.

    anon

    June 2, 2015 at 10:07 pm

    You never know. Jenner may use the money to help transgender with less resources. I’m cool with that. I still don’t have to watch the show.

  67. 67.

    FortGeek

    June 2, 2015 at 10:10 pm

    The infuriating thing in the whole Jenner story is that NONE of the transfolks I knew in the 90s got media strokes or TV show money thrown at them when they made the transition.

    The only thing they had in common would be the freak show mentality (“Hey, mommy! Look at him!!”, which is only amped up a billion times over for the famous ones. Tthe ones I knew didn’t WANT to be noticed. They just wanted to live their lives as just plain people.

    Last night, “The Last Word” spent a freaking HALF HOUR on the “story.” This, after something like 6 months of yapping about it as the “story” “developed.” Good ol’ MSNBCNN (so much for “Your Place for Politics”). Can missing planes and luxury poop cruises be far behind?

  68. 68.

    Valdivia

    June 2, 2015 at 10:10 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Yeah, see, that right there is why some of us are Cat People.

    :)
    I second that.

  69. 69.

    kc

    June 2, 2015 at 10:11 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Jenner voluntarily put his life, and that of his younger children, on public display. And after winning the gold medal, he really didn’t do shit, other than make be a celebrity.

  70. 70.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 2, 2015 at 10:12 pm

    @lamh36:

    Yup, those very ones.

    So according to Mz. Megan, the media linked Josh D. to GOP candidates? Like, Josh D. himself had nothing to do with those 15 or 16 photos of him side-hugging and dudebro-embracing every single member of the GOP Klown Kar? Okay, then.

    By the way, I saw a photo of the Joshster on FB earlier tonight, and I would swear he is indistinguishable from George Zimmerman. Coincidence…?

  71. 71.

    Corner Stone

    June 2, 2015 at 10:13 pm

    @kc:

    And after winning the gold medal, he really didn’t do shit, other than make be a celebrity.

    Say that again, but slower please.

  72. 72.

    Heliopause

    June 2, 2015 at 10:14 pm

    but because I am sick and tired of people not minding their own god damned business and the role people’s bigotries have in shaping policy

    Like you I’m sick and tired of this shit, but for me for a slightly different reason. My reason is that this latest development didn’t magically transform this extended clan of worthless humans into something interesting. They’re still worthless and still uninteresting.

  73. 73.

    Valdivia

    June 2, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: You see, the GOP candidates were just accidentally caught in those pictures. Not really their responsibility according to Fox world. Nothing to do with him being part of the Family Council or whatever the name of that org is.

  74. 74.

    CaseyL

    June 2, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    @celticdragonchick: Best wishes finding the right combo, and on your surgery!

  75. 75.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 2, 2015 at 10:20 pm

    @Valdivia:

    I know, they just innocently wandered by. Who could possibly have known? Who could possibly blame them? Truly, these GOP candidates deserve our pity, not our censure; our compassion, not our judgement; our lovingkindness, not our scorn.

  76. 76.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 2, 2015 at 10:21 pm

    @Valdivia: @SiubhanDuinne: It was PhotoShopped, I tells ya!

  77. 77.

    Geeno

    June 2, 2015 at 10:24 pm

    @lamh36: A quick edit to one those comments:

    @IjeomaOluo: I really wish that people in marginalized groups didn’t have to be “beautiful” for people to realize that they ARE beautiful PEOPLE

    There – much more accurate now.

  78. 78.

    Valdivia

    June 2, 2015 at 10:24 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: and not only that, if they had known who he was they would have refused to even be in the same room as he was.

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yes, of course and with the advantage that then there is not even a scintilla of association, just the malevolence of the liberal media!

  79. 79.

    kc

    June 2, 2015 at 10:24 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Derp. And I’ve only had one drink …

  80. 80.

    FortGeek

    June 2, 2015 at 10:30 pm

    @Gravenstone: Funny thing is, most of the transwomen I was acquainted with maybe 20 years ago were ex-military. They went into “manly man” jobs to try to hide their impulses.

    One of them went from Normandy to Berlin in WW2.
    One was some sort of infantry in Vietnam.
    One was a tanker in the Gulf War.
    All pretty conservative (the only thing I had an issue with), none of whom I’d want to pick a fight with.

  81. 81.

    FlipYrWhig

    June 2, 2015 at 10:47 pm

    @lamh36: eh. Most members of underrepresented groups, like most people generally, are homely and undistinguished, but it’s still been a huge deal every time someone from that group breaks through into celebrity status, like Lena Horne or Rita Moreno. Seems like it goes without saying that pretty people are going to get more attention than plain ones.

  82. 82.

    Keith P.

    June 2, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    She’s an American and she’s a human, and that should all that matters to make sure that she has the same rights and gets the same amount of human dignity and respect that everyone else gets.

    Except she built this whole thing up and is coordinating the entire media onslaught. That’s the whole career of that entire family. Next year, it’s her first dates. Then, she’ll want to adopt.
    I don’t think “Oh, poor Caitlyn Jenner. Leave her alone.” I think “Oh, poor us. Lease us alone.”

  83. 83.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    @kc:

    And after winning the gold medal, he really didn’t do shit, other than make be a celebrity.

    Not quite true – he managed to divorce his first wife, right around the time that he started getting endorsement money. That is, the one who was the breadwinner (and everything else) while he was in training, so that he COULD be in training, and not have to worry about being responsible for anything but his own achievement(s).

    Overly simplistic of me to think that was a dick move on his part. But I’m OK with being overly simplistic sometimes.

  84. 84.

    FlipYrWhig

    June 2, 2015 at 10:55 pm

    @SFAW: Hey, man, don’t be a gender determinist — transpeople can make dick moves too!

  85. 85.

    Peale

    June 2, 2015 at 10:56 pm

    @celticdragonchick: but he only win it once…lol

  86. 86.

    Chris

    June 2, 2015 at 11:06 pm

    @srv:

    Throw in the Palins and you’ve got a deal.

  87. 87.

    Brachiator

    June 2, 2015 at 11:24 pm

    Jenner on the cover of Vanity Fair makes it more than a private matter. And who knows whether a new reality show might be in the works. I did catch part of Jenner’s tv interview and understand that she was tired of living a lie, of not being who she felt she was. I think we can all relate to that. So I empathize and wish her well.

  88. 88.

    opiejeanne

    June 2, 2015 at 11:33 pm

    @SFAW: Yeah, I remember thinking “What a dick!” when he divorced his first wife. He married #2 the same week the divorce became official.

  89. 89.

    yodecat

    June 2, 2015 at 11:43 pm

    Who gives a flying fuck about that Jenner person? I sure don’t. Why trouble your mind with silly garbage?

  90. 90.

    different-church-lady

    June 2, 2015 at 11:50 pm

    @Baud:

    What about minds that discuss pets and sports and music and gardening on Sunday morning and shows on BBC and PBS?

    Fuck them especially.

  91. 91.

    different-church-lady

    June 2, 2015 at 11:54 pm

    @NotMax:

    Somehow don’t recall Chelsea Manning appearing on the any glossy cover.

    Well, that whole prison thingy was a bit of an obstacle…

  92. 92.

    different-church-lady

    June 2, 2015 at 11:57 pm

    @srv:

    I am willing to turn The Bieber, Kardashians, Jenners, Duggars and Donald Trump over to ISIS in exchange for peace.

    Are you talking about world peace, or peace of mind?

  93. 93.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 3, 2015 at 12:01 am

    @NotMax:

    Somehow don’t recall Chelsea Manning appearing on the any glossy cover.

    Manning never made it on to a Wheaties box either.

  94. 94.

    Origuy

    June 3, 2015 at 12:12 am

    Jenner is only the second trans person I know of who was a public figure before beginning gender reassignment. The other one was Walter/Wendy Carlos, the pioneering synthesizerist. I remember listening to Switched-on Bach in junior high band class.

    Edit: I forgot about Chelsea Manning, but there wasn’t a long time between the first public awareness of him/her, and the announcement of the transgender situation.

  95. 95.

    Gian

    June 3, 2015 at 12:25 am

    @celticdragonchick:

    If you don’t care about “reality TV” – like me. Or the empire this family has therein, and step back. I was 6 when this person was the darling of the media and the Wheaties box. This is in and of itself is a Biden BFD. I can see where you might want to wait a few years to see what shakes out (say a 1st grader might be jealous ’cause girls don’t get in trouble as much and so wants to be a girl) but this gentleperson is six decades plus. God Bless for finding peace. And fuck the damn show

  96. 96.

    Suzanne

    June 3, 2015 at 12:39 am

    @Origuy: There’s also Laura Jane Grace, of Against Me!, who I saw live the first time long before her transition.

    My next-door-neighbor is currently transitioning, and I am happy that Jenner is bringing this issue into the public eye in such fashion, if only to make my neighbor’s experience a bit easier. She gets side-eye from some of the other neighbors, but I love her to pieces.

  97. 97.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 3, 2015 at 12:43 am

    @Suzanne: If I can translate this into dudebro.: So, if this dude needs to be a chick, w’evs. Yo, I need another beer, motherfucker.

  98. 98.

    Suzanne

    June 3, 2015 at 12:51 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: No, the neighbors across the street are right-wing evangelical. They have approached Mr. Suzanne and I, asking questions about her transition status (gross—I’m horrified that they asked) and why she wears swimsuits they consider immodest. They are apparently flummoxed about how to explain this to their children. They could have just asked us, as our kids like her a lot, and she’s still the only person we’ve had babysit our kids in the five years we’ve lived here. I don’t know why people seem to find this hard to explain to children.

  99. 99.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 3, 2015 at 1:17 am

    @Suzanne: Perhaps you should offer my dudebro translation. I think it sums it up. Also, I think kids can actually handle: Yes, she used to be a man, but now she is a woman. Why? Because science made it possible for her to to be who she should be. Oh, Okay.

  100. 100.

    Montarvillois

    June 3, 2015 at 5:32 am

    Totally agree with you. Now where are the pet pics you promised.

  101. 101.

    OGLiberal

    June 3, 2015 at 5:52 am

    Couple things. We are seeing Caitlyn all over the place because that’s exactly what she and Kris Jenner planned.

    And why are we not hearing any more about that woman she killed with her car a few weeks back?

  102. 102.

    brantl

    June 3, 2015 at 7:09 am

    I am sick and tired of people not minding their own god damned business and the role people’s bigotries have in shaping policy. Why does anyone care? The only people who should care about Jenner’s sexuality are Jenner and whoever chooses to get in bed with her.

    She’s an American and she’s a human, and that should all that matters to make sure that she has the same rights and gets the same amount of human dignity and respect that everyone else gets.

    This, a thousand times, this.

  103. 103.

    skyweaver

    June 3, 2015 at 7:41 am

    I agree with you, John. Also I just finished reading Dan Savage’s take to a letter-writer about Caitlyn Jenner. You might enjoy reading it.

    http://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2015/06/02/22323147/sl-letter-of-the-day

  104. 104.

    J R in WV

    June 3, 2015 at 9:06 am

    @Baud:

    You guys ever think maybe the problem is Windows? Windows is famous for being inconsistent in how it handles stuff that is part of a standard that MS doesn’t particularly like.

    After a 25 year career, first dealing with mainframe systems, and then with windows systems, and then with internet systems, now retired I can quit using Windows. Almost weirdness free with Ubuntu.

  105. 105.

    J R in WV

    June 3, 2015 at 9:13 am

    @celticdragonchick:

    Me too, Celtic! I think most everyone on B-J will be pushing for your success, really. Whichever way you’re going, I hope the destination is happiness for you in particular, and your friends as you succeed in being more happy around them.

    Best of luck!

  106. 106.

    Paul in KY

    June 3, 2015 at 9:32 am

    @efgoldman: I thought she looked damn good for her age. Of course, she was a world class athlete.

  107. 107.

    Paul in KY

    June 3, 2015 at 9:34 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: She’d have been a hot, tall piece. She’s about 6’2″.

  108. 108.

    Paul in KY

    June 3, 2015 at 9:36 am

    @fuckwit: Winning Decathlon (and setting World record in process) was a pretty big thing back then. Beating the Russky, Avilov, in middle of Cold War was big (that got us back Decathlon supremacy, at least till Daley Thompson came along).

  109. 109.

    Paul in KY

    June 3, 2015 at 9:52 am

    @Origuy: The lead singer of band Against Me! is also trans. Big deal in punk circles.

    Edit: See Suzanne beat me to it.

  110. 110.

    Jado

    June 3, 2015 at 10:02 am

    @srv:

    ISIS got back to us with a formal declaration of war, based entirely on the initial offer.

  111. 111.

    LanceThruster

    June 3, 2015 at 11:28 am

    I was in line at the bank the other day and a woman asked me what I thought of Bruce Jenner and showed me the VF photo on her smart phone. I told her that “I think it’s a good thing that I don’t care.” and went on to explain that people should be free to follow their own happiness and own sense of self. We agreed that society is moving towards the point that this is no big deal (or at least perceived as something that should not be).

    I put no more thought into his/her ‘conversion’ than that of someone getting a nose job. Granted, having your ‘junk’ bobbed is some serious surgery, but that’s the freedom that adults should possess.

    On caveat comes to mind. Howard Stern had a sex reassignment guest as a regular on his show for awhile (Siobahn?), and it was sad to hear him/her explain the disappointment of the mechanics of his/her new plumbing and the loss of feeling compared to the ‘original’ equipment. I got the sense that he/she wishes he/she could unring the bell.

  112. 112.

    Gex

    June 3, 2015 at 11:37 am

    @Major Major Major Major: We have a winner!

    There’s a reason why acceptance of gays has grown rapidly over the last two decades, and it has everything to do with gays coming out, and it being a public discussion. People who thought they didn’t know gays found out they did.

    For non cis-heteros, visibility is really important. And it is tiresome to listen to cis-heteros wish we would just shut up and stay out of sight and out of mind.

    That small minded haters are making a circus of this isn’t Caitlyn’s fault. Announcing herself and being visible are important things, regardless of how everyone else chooses to react.

  113. 113.

    LanceThruster

    June 3, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Thanks for that. This brings to mind some questions that I have. I saw/heard a quote by Jenner that s/he (would ‘he’ be proper pronoun usage if the quote was made/thought during his previous gender association?) “didn’t want to look like a man in a dress.”

    That to me smacks a bit of ‘lookism’ in that Jenner’s desire is not just be ‘be’ a woman but be a pretty/beautiful woman. The glamour shoot plays into that as well. Though I haven’t seen Jon Stewarts piece yet on Jenner’s “Fvckability,” it seems as if that’s what Jenner herself is going for.

    I compare that to a person I saw several times at the train station waiting for the tram to the university medical center. To the best of my powers of perception, she was a man in a dress (as deduced by the Adam’s apple and size of the hands/feet) and a wig. She looked quite homely (subjective I know but not inaccurate) as well as appearing uncomfortable if not outright sad. I mentally wished her a nice life.

    Is there a (for lack of a better way to put it) a ‘sub-culture’? of converting to an ‘ugly’ transgender? Chastity Bono (forget his new name – oh yeah, Chaz) looks pretty much like ‘regular’ guy but is there any sort of ‘backlash’? for those who choose reassignment but are generally not perceived as ‘attractive’ in their new identity?

  114. 114.

    SFAW

    June 3, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    Yeah, I remember thinking “What a dick!” when he divorced his first wife.

    You’re old enough to remember that? You’re older than you look.

  115. 115.

    Older

    June 3, 2015 at 1:19 pm

    @Central Planning: Yeah, but my problem is different. Usually I can view Balloon Juice okay, but if I leave the computer for a while without turning it off, and I leave a window open on BJ, I am likely to return to find that things are amiss on other sites open at the time. Especially my e-mail.

    And no, I don’t think it’s to do with Windows especially, because it does not happen if I remember to close BJ before I leave my desk.

  116. 116.

    Older

    June 3, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    @Paul in KY: “she’s about 6’2″ ” — so is my daughter, and she was pretty good-looking when she was younger. Even if most of us had to look up to get the whole picture.

    As for Ms Jenner, a lot of us could look lovely at the age of 65 if we had her money.

  117. 117.

    EBT

    June 3, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    @celticdragonchick:

    Take a look at Satterwhite over at brownstine and crane. He did mine two weeks ago and at least accepts MediCal

  118. 118.

    PST

    June 4, 2015 at 12:00 am

    @Origuy:

    Jenner is only the second trans person I know of who was a public figure before beginning gender reassignment. The other one was Walter/Wendy Carlos…

    How about Jan Morris? She was well known as a foreign correspondent and travel writer. As James Morris, she accompanied the Everest expedition and was first to report its success. She wrote a book about her transition, Conundrum, back in the 70s. It was the first thing I ever read that conveyed any sense of what it might be like to feel that one had been born into a body of the wrong sex.

  119. 119.

    Paul in KY

    June 4, 2015 at 8:11 am

    @Older: Tall women are great!

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