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You are here: Home / Politics / Proud to Be A Democrat / The Party of Lincoln

The Party of Lincoln

by Tom Levenson|  June 3, 20156:43 pm| 126 Comments

This post is in: Proud to Be A Democrat

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64112-004-32EC9848

Y’all…

Well, one of you…

Sought a Lincoln Chaffee thread.

Whatever his standing in the presidential nomination polls* , there’s no doubt who wins the “most-likely-to-cure-insomnia-on C-SPAN 2” election.

So.

OK.  Have a Lincoln Chaffee thread.

Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

*how it must burn the terrapin in the race to think that a Democrat-come-lately like fortunate son Linc is only three points behind him

Image:  Rhode Island Red, (Rhode Island state bird), via the Encyclopedia Britannica Kids.

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Reader Interactions

126Comments

  1. 1.

    MomSense

    June 3, 2015 at 6:45 pm

    Rhode Island Reds are quite striking.

    I got nothing on Chaffee. MSNBC played a couple minutes and he was talking about Governor Bush.

  2. 2.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 6:45 pm

    Yay Tom!

  3. 3.

    Richard mayhew

    June 3, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    As I asked for Pataki, I will ask for Chaffer… What is his angle as it is not plausible nomination attempt so is it ideological. If so what or a long grift?

  4. 4.

    srv

    June 3, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    He needs a VEEP:

    Kathleen Matthews, the wife of MSNBC personality Chris Matthews, has entered the Democratic primary to replace Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), who is running for Senate.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 6:48 pm

    also oversaw a flagging state economy and was ensnared in high-profile controversies, such as a debate about whether Christmas trees should be called holiday trees.

    Finally, a Democrat who is willing to lead in the War on Christmas.

  6. 6.

    satby

    June 3, 2015 at 6:50 pm

    Bernie has policy to talk about. So does Clinton. Chaffee can go for the 11 Democrats who think it’s important for a former Republican turned Democratic white male to be the standard bearer. Snore…..

  7. 7.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 3, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    Would he be our first blacksmith president, or did Grant work as a blacksmith during those lean years? I imagine TR must have shoed a horse at some point, if only for a bully anecdote to write home about.

  8. 8.

    srv

    June 3, 2015 at 6:54 pm

    Some real bravery out there:

    Presidential candidate Rick Santorum rebuked Pope Francis this week, saying the pope should “leave science to the scientists” with regard to the pontiff’s remarks on climate change.

    Pope Francis — who has a degree in chemistry — has said causing climate change is a sin because the Earth is God’s creation and should be protected. “Safeguard Creation,” he said in a speech last month. “Because if we destroy Creation, Creation will destroy us! Never forget this!”

  9. 9.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 3, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    *how it must burn the terrapin in the race to think that a Democrat-come-lately like fortunate son Linc is only three points behind him

    incoming….

  10. 10.

    scav

    June 3, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    as fine a choice of art as ever Mr. Levenson. The momentary ambiguity of a Tom. Cracker Betty Levenson was thrilling in the vistas exposed.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 7:01 pm

    @satby:

    a former Republican turned Democratic white male

    What were his race and gender when he was a Republican?

  12. 12.

    JPL

    June 3, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    Why? Is he hoping for a gig at MSNBC because he certainly isn’t Fox material.

  13. 13.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    There may be a few obscure cabinet posts boring enough for Chaffee, maybe he is running for one of those.

    I see in the link that Bernie Sanders is at 15 percent in PA. Go, Bernie go!
    He is already trying to shake things up. He proposed some kind of Democratic versus GOP primary debate focusing in issues.
    Probably won’t go anywhere, and not sure how it would work, but I like the image of HRC and Bernie and O’Malley beating the stuffing out (debatewise) of the unnumbered hordes of GOPer pres hopefuls.

  14. 14.

    Tree With Water

    June 3, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    Two things about Chaffee I care about: One, he opposed the War in Iraq, and is righteously positioned to demand answers from Hillary about her support for the Bush-Cheney War; and two, he took a pass when Obama asked him to join his administration- it was a cabinet position, if memory serves- where he may have done the democratic rank and file some good. And now he expects the party’s nomination? My god, what an ego.

  15. 15.

    maimata

    June 3, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    Saw him Maher several weeks ago. He was astonishingly bad: arrogant, clueless and unengaged.

  16. 16.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    @Tree With Water: OK, I guess Cheffee don’t want no cabinet post.

  17. 17.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    @jl:

    Bernie seems to be initial non-Hillary for voters, to O’Malley’s detriment. It’ll be interesting to see how it develops.

  18. 18.

    JGabriel

    June 3, 2015 at 7:13 pm

    Tom Levenson @ Top:

    Whatever his standing in the presidential nomination polls* , there’s no doubt who wins the “most-likely-to-cure-insomnia-on C-SPAN 2″ election.

    There’s some doubt – I think Martin O’Malley could give Chafee a run for his money in the insomnia cure department, at least from what I’ve seen from O’Malley’s appearances so far.

    If I’m wrong and anyone can point me to a YouTube where O’Malley isn’t a snoozefest, I’d appreciate the correction.

  19. 19.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 7:16 pm

    @Baud: It’s nice to see someone like Sanders up at 15 percent. He could be a real force in the primary. HRC will almost surely win unless something unexpected happens, but a real primary over real issues with some one who can pull 15 to 20 percent of the vote will be helpful, I think.

  20. 20.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    @jl:

    It’s shaping up to be a real substantive primary on our side. Whether that helps in the general? Who knows?

  21. 21.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    June 3, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    Maybe Chafee can even get enough name recognition that people spell his name right. (Kudos to JGabriel.)

  22. 22.

    Schlemazel

    June 3, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    Given that the assclown from MD went after Hilary using GOP memes fuck him. Linc is a better Democrat so far and that is sad because the other guy had promise.

  23. 23.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 3, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    @Baud: Unlike that S-word Bernie.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    To be fair to Bernie, some voters really hate Democrats. Is it fair to ask him to just throw those votes away?

  25. 25.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    Given that the assclown from MD went after Hilary using GOP memes fuck him.

    Link or explanation?

  26. 26.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 3, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    @Baud: As my dad used to say, “Love me Love my dog”.

  27. 27.

    Schlemazel

    June 3, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    Have a moment of silence for Blob from Portland – he probably is unemployed these days:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

  28. 28.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 3, 2015 at 7:25 pm

    A Classics major from Phillips, Andover and Brown who moved to Montana to shoe horses?

  29. 29.

    Schlemazel

    June 3, 2015 at 7:27 pm

    @Richard mayhew:
    VP has to go to somebody

  30. 30.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 3, 2015 at 7:28 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Well, TR went to Harvard and went west. Then again it was after his wife and mother died on the same day.

  31. 31.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 3, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA: It just reads like the resume of the boho uncle in a WASP family that no one talks about unless they need good weed.

  32. 32.

    muddy

    June 3, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    @MomSense: Beautiful plumage!

  33. 33.

    Cacti

    June 3, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    @Baud:

    To be fair to Bernie, some voters really hate Democrats. Is it fair to ask him to just throw those votes away?

    I have to say, I do find it somewhat irksome that Bernie’s internet following (does he have another one?) are trying to drape him with the mantle of FDR.

    FDR was a Democrat. Not an Independent Democratic Socialist. He was a Donkey through and through.

  34. 34.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 3, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Isn’t that the best kind of uncle? At least the most fun.

  35. 35.

    Schlemazel

    June 3, 2015 at 7:34 pm

    I don’t have a link at the moment but in the story online he hit the high points, dynasty, cushy speaking gigs. I’ll see if I can find it

  36. 36.

    Cacti

    June 3, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    I don’t have a link at the moment but in the story online he hit the high points, dynasty, cushy speaking gigs. I’ll see if I can find it

    Yep.

    Dynasty, speaking fees, “grandma” cracks.

    Not sure which party’s nomination he thought he was running for.

  37. 37.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 3, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I am not really knocking him. I just found it sort of funny.

  38. 38.

    MomSense

    June 3, 2015 at 7:38 pm

    @muddy:

    I know!!

  39. 39.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 7:38 pm

    @Cacti:

    I think it’s a mistake and a negative mark on his case for the nomination. Determinative? Probably only at the margins.

  40. 40.

    muddy

    June 3, 2015 at 7:40 pm

    @Cacti: Of course he has another one, the sensible people of Vermont. And he has had “face-time” with many many of them. He doesn’t just sail off to Washington and make noises.

    Who cares what exact label someone has on them, Democrat or no. It’s the policies that count. Not Bernie’s fault the Democrats moved to the right since FDR.

  41. 41.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 7:41 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Chaffee is in no shape to be making grandma jokes. I guess if he goes that route he will exude lack of self-awareness. He is a rather oldish looking guy for his early 60s, His general gestalt comes off older than Sanders.

  42. 42.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 7:42 pm

    @muddy:

    Then he should start his own party and seek its nomination if he thinks ours is not to his liking.

  43. 43.

    Cacti

    June 3, 2015 at 7:43 pm

    @muddy:

    Of course he has another one, the sensible people of Vermont.

    The county I live in has more people than Vermont.

  44. 44.

    Schlemazel

    June 3, 2015 at 7:44 pm

    @Cacti:
    Plenty of ground to go after any of the Dem candidates without coming at them from the Fox News side. It pisses me off to see this from a Dem. If nothing else stick with what you want to do and your vision & leave attacking other Dems to th asscloew posse

  45. 45.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 3, 2015 at 7:44 pm

    @jl: I believe it was O’Malley who made the grandma and dynasty cracks not Chafee. Also, Chafee is a dynasty politician himself, so there is no way he is going that route.

  46. 46.

    Keith G

    June 3, 2015 at 7:46 pm

    Yeah, Lincoln Fucking Chaffee….

    I have a question. Time to start a new book and I want to wade into Neil Gaiman’s writing:

    Neverwhere or American Gods?

  47. 47.

    Cacti

    June 3, 2015 at 7:46 pm

    @Baud:

    Then he should start his own party and seek its nomination if he thinks ours is not to his liking.

    This x eleventybillion.

    There’s been a Socialist Party of America since 1900, and FDR didn’t belong to it.

    If labels don’t matter, he should run as the no-labels candidate.

    It’s a curious position, to hold yourself out as too ideologically pure to take on the name of the party whose nomination you’re seeking.

  48. 48.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 3, 2015 at 7:48 pm

    I’ve mentioned here before, I have met Linc. He has the opposite of charisma. When he walks into a room everyone desperately tries to find an excuse to leave.

  49. 49.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    @Cacti:

    He can’t have it both ways. If labels don’t matter, he should join the Dems. If labels matter to him, he needs to make a case why he doesn’t want the D label.

  50. 50.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Sorry. I did not see the first comment on O’Malley. That is too bad if he decides to stink up the Democratic primary with GOP type nonsense.

  51. 51.

    catclub

    June 3, 2015 at 7:51 pm

    @jl:

    I see in the link that Bernie Sanders is at 15 percent in PA.

    Isn’t that higher than any of the GOP candidates are polling?

  52. 52.

    Loneoak

    June 3, 2015 at 7:52 pm

    @srv:

    He needs a VEEP:

    Better yet: Luke Russert.

  53. 53.

    Schlemazel

    June 3, 2015 at 7:52 pm

    @Cacti:
    He might very well be performing the most valuable service anyone ever could for todays Democratic Party. By running to the left and constantly pointing out how mainstream HRC is he may take the power of the label “socialist” away from the GOP in the general. If enough people actually listen to what he is proposing it could demolish “socialist” as a slur going forward. I have no problem with his wanting to run as a Dem because it serves the party in the long run and I happen to agree with a lot of what he says.

  54. 54.

    Schlemazel

    June 3, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    @Cacti:
    To be fair in FDRs time socialist meant something, today it is just a slur against anyone to the left of Mussolini. In my mind there are only a few issues I demand purity on & Bernie is good, its a big tent.

  55. 55.

    catclub

    June 3, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    @jl: Didn’t Obama lose a 2012 primary? Perhaps West Virginia?

    ETA: Not Quite!

    In an embarrassment to President Obama, Federal Inmate No. 11593-051 – otherwise known as Keith Judd – won 10 counties and 41 percent of the vote in West Virginia’s Democratic presidential primary Tuesday.

  56. 56.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 3, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    @maimata: Saw him Maher several weeks ago. He was astonishingly bad: arrogant, clueless and unengaged.

    I didn’t see that, but I think he just has a kind of a strange affect, which may be related to his rather patrician background. He’s much better suited to radio. I caught somebody today saying he’s an “entitlement reforming fiscal conservative”, but I haven’t heard that from him.

  57. 57.

    Schlemazel

    June 3, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    @efgoldman:
    given that he has spent so much time around horse’s asses he would do well dealing with COngress.

  58. 58.

    Cacti

    June 3, 2015 at 7:57 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    He might very well be performing the most valuable service anyone ever could for todays Democratic Party. By running to the left and constantly pointing out how mainstream HRC is he may take the power of the label “socialist” away from the GOP in the general. If enough people actually listen to what he is proposing it could demolish “socialist” as a slur going forward. I have no problem with his wanting to run as a Dem because it serves the party in the long run and I happen to agree with a lot of what he says.

    I agree with the observation about the GOP using “socialist” as a club against any Dem candidate…

    But there’s something that just rubs me the wrong way about Bernie’s unwillingness to call himself a Democrat. It gives off the vibe that he thinks he’s slumming by seeking the Dem nomination, and is only doing so because running for the Socialist nomination would render him utterly irrelevant.

  59. 59.

    catclub

    June 3, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    @efgoldman:

    I never knew that until this morning.

    Relevant! I do that too after I have read one link on the intertubes.
    http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2475

  60. 60.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 8:01 pm

    @Cacti: Very very few voters are going to give a rat’s ass what Sander’s calls himself. And if what Sander’s is doing is OK with the DNC, and if the Democratic Party itself doesn’t seem to care whether a nominee is registered Democrat, why should anyone care? My understanding is that the Democratic Party does not require Democratic registration to be nominee.

  61. 61.

    Cacti

    June 3, 2015 at 8:02 pm

    @jl:

    Very very few voters are going to give a rat’s ass what Sander’s calls himself.

    Says you.

  62. 62.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    @jl:

    That the Party’s rules give voters more choices doesn’t mean that individual voters have to ignore a candidate’s choice not to join with us in name.

  63. 63.

    Cacti

    June 3, 2015 at 8:08 pm

    @Baud:

    It’s more than just that.

    Under New Hampshire election law, to get access to the primary ballot, a candidate has to declare under penalty of perjury that they meet the qualifications for POTUS AND are a registered member of the party whose nomination they seek.

    Not sure how he’s going to square that circle, being an “Independent Socialist who caucuses with the Democrats”.

  64. 64.

    Tree With Water

    June 3, 2015 at 8:09 pm

    @Schlemazel: Hillary could invest every dime of the Clinton Foundation into shares of Goldman Sachs and she’d still be tarred as a card carrying commie.

    … whose husband travelled to Moscow as a Rhodes scholar while American troops fought in Vietnam. Remember that innuendo laden jab that GHW threw at Bill in one of their ’92 debates. Bill played chin music in response, treading ever-so-lightly in alluding to scurrilous rumors about GHW’s behavior on a combat mission in which his rear gunner was killed. I recall that Bush looked startled, or maybe perplexed, at the remark. Be that as it may, it was the last anyone ever heard again of Bill in Moscow.

  65. 65.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    @Cacti:

    I just assumed that he did his homework on state ballot access rules.

    I don’t like the idea of there being no “Democrat” on the general election ballot if he were to get the nomination.

  66. 66.

    Schlemazel

    June 3, 2015 at 8:16 pm

    @Tree With Water:
    true & if the GOP wants to play that game I understand. But I don’t want a Dem to do it and I would like the average moron to know a little better by the time they drag themselves to the polls.

  67. 67.

    Keith G

    June 3, 2015 at 8:16 pm

    @Cacti:

    But there’s something that just rubs me the wrong way about Bernie’s unwillingness to call himself a Democrat. It gives off the vibe that he thinks he’s slumming by seeking the Dem nomination,

    It’s not about slumming, though it may in part be about slums.

    As a whole the Democratic Party is as much in the thrall of corporate bucks as is the GOP. To be “taken seriously” many Democrats hitch up to centrist ideas (most of which seem right of center to me). Bernie doesn’t.

    Best of all as an independent Senator, he does not have to listen to Schumer or Durban unless he wants to.

  68. 68.

    Jimgod

    June 3, 2015 at 8:17 pm

    @Cacti: Except that Obama couldn’t square that circle either. The President is not a registered Democrat as we don’t have partisan registration in IL. That requirement is only enforceable if the candidate is from NH. Otherwise, it’s feel good bullshit. And again, the only enforceable requirement is that the slate of delegates pledged to Bernie are registered Democrats in those states with partisan registration. Same thing with the Electors to the Electoral College.

  69. 69.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    @Keith G:

    Then Bernie should explain that’s why he won’t join and let the chips fall where they may.

  70. 70.

    Jimgod

    June 3, 2015 at 8:23 pm

    @Baud: Except how should he go about doing that? We don’t have party memberships in this country. In every other democracy, you pay 5 or 10 bucks, get a membership card and are entitled to nominate candidates and choose delegates to policy conventions, vote on party manifesto positions etc. In the US, only about 20 states (if that) have partisan registration, where you can register as a Democrat, the closest analogue to membership. In the majority of states, including mine in IL, we just register to vote, no party declared. I couldn’t “join” the Democratic Party if I wanted to in this state, neither could Obama for that matter. And neither can Bernie cause Vermont doesn’t have partisan registration either.

  71. 71.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 8:24 pm

    @Cacti: OK, we will all see how many voters care.

    @Baud:

    According to the linked article, the New Hampshire rules have been flexible in the past, and pose a problem for any candidate from a state where voters are not registered by party affiliation. Vermont is one of them, and Dean was in the NH primary.

    Potential roadblock for Bernie Sanders rises in New Hampshire
    By Jeff Zeleny and Dan Merica, CNN

    ” Even if Sanders wanted to formally declare his allegiance to the Democratic Party, which he has not done during a quarter-century in Congress, he would technically be hamstrung. Vermont, his home state, is one of more than 20 across the country that does not register voters by party. ”
    …
    ” But when reminded that Howard Dean, the former Vermont governor who sought the Democratic presidential nomination in 2004, qualified for the New Hampshire ballot, even though he was also not a registered Democrat, Gardner [NH Secty of State] paused for several moments. He said he would dig out Dean’s paperwork from storage and check.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/30/politics/bernie-sanders-new-hampshire-democrats/index.html

  72. 72.

    OldDave

    June 3, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    @Keith G:

    Both are good. Neverwhere is set in London and might be the better first read of the two.

  73. 73.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    @Jimgod:

    If Vermont has party registration, he should change his. If Vermont doesn’t, Bernie can send a tweet that he’s now a Democrat. I’m not looking for paperwork or ritual, but an expression of where he stands with respect to the party whose nomination he seeks.

    ETA: I reread your comment that Vt doesn’t have party registration. So tweet it is.

  74. 74.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 8:27 pm

    @Jimgod: Thanks for info on party affiliation and registration. It’s all BS, and the fuss in NH seems to me more of a stunt to promote their first primary racket, than anything else.

  75. 75.

    Jimgod

    June 3, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    @jl: Thank you! That’s exactly what I’m saying and it applies to Barack Obama in both the 2008 and 2012 New Hampshire Primary. The SoS in NH sounds a real idiot to me…..

  76. 76.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 8:29 pm

    @Baud: Yeah. And he has to have a donkey outline in all his campaign junk too. That would mean he’s a real Dem, dammit!

  77. 77.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 8:30 pm

    @jl:

    No, he’s a real Dem if he chooses to be a real Dem. Until then, he’s not a Dem at all.

  78. 78.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 8:30 pm

    Should expel Hubert Humphrey from the pantheon too, since he was really MN Democratic Farmer-Labor Party, not a real Democrat at all.

    Edit: Looks like we got a Democratic Reformation going on here.

  79. 79.

    JPL

    June 3, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    Lincoln is now on Chris Hayes.

  80. 80.

    Ruckus

    June 3, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    @Baud:
    I don’t get the issue. Why is it important that someone have some artificial connection to you so that you can vote for them? Would you vote/not vote for a transgender person if everything else about them you liked? Would you vote for someone who was as big an asshole as any of the rethugs running for president, just because he declares he’s a democrat? Say Rahm E?

  81. 81.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 8:36 pm

    @Ruckus:

    I’ll happily vote for Bernie if he wins the nom. But his choice not to consider himself a Democrat is obviously meaningful for him, and totally unlike the transgender example.

  82. 82.

    fuckwit

    June 3, 2015 at 8:39 pm

    @Cacti: In FDR’s days, Democrats called for a living wage for workers, taxing the rich extensively, massive public works to employ everyone, new and powerful regulations for bank and aggressive enforcement of bank regulations, etc.

    in othe words, by today’s definition, FDR was a socialist, just like Bernie.

    I don’t care about the labels Bernie is, far and away, the FDR standard-bearer in the race.

  83. 83.

    Jimgod

    June 3, 2015 at 8:40 pm

    Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. He says so. And in Vermont, saying so and running for office as an independent are the only ways to verify this. (Although in his first Senate run, he actually did run as a Democrat to prevent a Republican from getting the Democratic nomination. Vermont uses electoral fusion>
    which is an awesome system that should be used nationwide.) But there are many instances of parties nominating non-members for President. Horace B. Greeley was a Liberal Republican whom the Dems nominated in 1872 against Grant. Wendell Wilkie was a former Democrat when the Rs put him up against FDR. Hell Ralph Nader wasn’t a Green when they nominated him in 2000. Finally, Sanders has said hes running as a Dem so as not to split the vote which to me is very realistic given our horrible electoral system in this country. If he were running a third party campaign, I can’t help but wonder if the complaints here would be about him being a splitter and spoiler. At least there’s no danger of that with him running for the Dem nomination, so that has to be a plus, right?

  84. 84.

    Mike J

    June 3, 2015 at 8:42 pm

    I’m a Democrat voting in a Democratic caucus, and by god I’ll vote for a Democrat. If you won’t call yourself a Democrat, you shouldn’t ask to lead our party.

  85. 85.

    Ruckus

    June 3, 2015 at 8:49 pm

    @Baud:
    Nearly half this country thinks the other half are complete assholes. I find a candidate I like, that has proven that they see things the way I do and I’m convinced that person is going to act in a manner consistent with that view, that person could call themselves a twit and I’m fine with that.
    How many conservatives won’t vote or even discuss anything, even if it hugely benefits them, if that idea comes from a democrat? How is demanding that someone call themselves a democrat different?

  86. 86.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    @Ruckus: I have nothing again anyone who votes for Bernie. I like him too. But his decision not to consider himself a member of the party he’s seeking the nom of is a negative in a sea of positive things about him.

  87. 87.

    fuckwit

    June 3, 2015 at 9:02 pm

    @Baud: He’s running for the nomination of the Democratic party. Obviously, if he wins it, he’ll be listed as a Democrat on the general ballot. He doesn’t have a choice.

    There is no problem here. Except for people being petty about party afffiliation and party loyalty. I can think of no more meaningless thing today, considering the serious problems we have to face, than such parochial interests. The Founders didn’t even want parties at all. It’s a bummer we have them, but there are occasionally hacks around them, and Bernie has found one. Good on him.

  88. 88.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    @fuckwit:

    If it were meaningless, he would just join and put an end to the discussion. Blame Bernie if you don’t like it.

  89. 89.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 9:06 pm

    @fuckwit: It is very very important to me that Sanders decided to run within the Democratic Party organizational framework for the nomination, rather than starting some counterproductive third party or independent vanity project. The details of his ‘official’ partisan registration aren’t important to me at all, and that is probably a good thing, since such a thing apparently does not exist in Vermont.

  90. 90.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    @efgoldman:

    No one is stopping him from organizing and getting votes and persuading.

  91. 91.

    Bobby Thomson

    June 3, 2015 at 9:18 pm

    @catclub:

    In an embarrassment to President Obama West Virginia, Federal Inmate No. 11593-051 – otherwise known as Keith Judd – won 10 counties and 41 percent of the vote in West Virginia’s Democratic presidential primary Tuesday.

    Fixed.

  92. 92.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    @Bobby Thomson:

    Good DeVillagification.

  93. 93.

    muddy

    June 3, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    @jl: Many of the people in the local races in Vermont list themselves as from the Democratic-Republican party.

  94. 94.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 3, 2015 at 9:21 pm

    @Baud: I am. By doing stuff using science and stuff.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 9:25 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    By doing stuff using science and stuff.

    How Einsteinian!

  96. 96.

    Cheap Jim, formerly Cheap Jim

    June 3, 2015 at 9:36 pm

    What’s in a name? Theodore Bilbo was a Democrat.

  97. 97.

    sukabi

    June 3, 2015 at 9:37 pm

    @Baud: I would say that his years in congress, and his seeking the presidency under the dem ticket make it extremely clear where his intentions/ party loyalty lay. If Democrats are supposed to be ‘the party of the people’ then Bernie is the BEST Democrat we’ve got, and there is no chance in he’ll if winning the presidency he’d turn all Republican and finish off what’s left of the country.

  98. 98.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    @sukabi: You can’t call someone a Democrat if he doesn’t want to be called a Democrat. I don’t care how awesome he is.

  99. 99.

    MobiusKlein

    June 3, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    Talcum power is good for chaffing

  100. 100.

    BBA

    June 3, 2015 at 9:41 pm

    Chafee wants America to finally adopt the metric system.

    Good for him. (I’m pro-metrication too but it’s never gonna happen.)

  101. 101.

    WereBear

    June 3, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    @BBA: Chafee wants America to finally adopt the metric system.

    I believe that ship has sailed. And it got holed at the waterline and sank before it cleared the bay.

  102. 102.

    Valdivia

    June 3, 2015 at 9:44 pm

    @BBA: finally a candidate after my own heart. Metric system! More importantly: also celsius?

  103. 103.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 9:49 pm

    That was all the evening news said about Chaffee’s platform, a soundbite of him saying the metric system was not scary, he’s been to Canada and it works!

    Maybe HRC paid Chaffee to get in and plug the metric system. That will drive the teabaggers wild, and take their attention of climate change and the environment.

    Edit: and Sanders won’t seem so scary, what with some nut advocating the metric system in the primary.

  104. 104.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 9:52 pm

    Who controls the British crown?
    Who keeps the metric system down?
    We do, we do!

  105. 105.

    sukabi

    June 3, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    @Baud: tell you what, when the folks in congress that call themselves democrats quit. working their arses off for the wealthy at the expense of everyone else, then I’ll start believing that the purity of the label matters. Till then,not so much.

  106. 106.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 9:55 pm

    @sukabi: I don’t care what matters to you. Vote for whoever the hell you want.

  107. 107.

    sukabi

    June 3, 2015 at 10:02 pm

    Seems like you’re hung up on labels, not substance, I’ll take substance everytime. Labels are cheap, and mostly today are used to confuse, cover what’s underneath.

  108. 108.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 10:04 pm

    @sukabi:

    Again, blame Bernie, for whom avoiding this particular label seems particularly important.

  109. 109.

    askew

    June 3, 2015 at 10:09 pm

    I don’t care that Bernie isn’t a Dem. I do care that he doesn’t think immigration is a high priority for this country.

    He didn’t mention immigration in his speech, which had fourteen different policy sections and lasted about a half hour. The senator rarely talks about it on the stump; at a recent town hall in D.C., he said that while immigration was an important issue, it wasn’t as central as the other issues he discusses far more.
    “If people are going to get to know him, they need to get to know him on the basis on what he believes are the biggest issues facing our country,” said top Sanders adviser Tad Devine — meaning campaign finance reform, income inequality and climate change. He noted also that Vermont has a relatively small immigrant population.

    Thrilled that O’Malley is heavily courting Latino voters by talking about his long commitment to immigration/refugee issues and his history of accomplishments. He is the most pro-immigration candidate running and I like that Latino groups are noticing this. The media, of course, is trying to spin Hillary’s 180 shift on immigration issues with no action as the equivalent of O’Malley’s long history of pro-immigration. They are also glossing over Hillary wanting to send child refugees back to Central America, while O’Malley stood up for the refugees and worked to move the highest # of refugees per capita to Maryland.

  110. 110.

    askew

    June 3, 2015 at 10:10 pm

    As for Lincoln, his calling for a change to the metric system in his announcement speech was weird.

    So far, Sanders and Hillary haven’t responded to inquiries on a shift to metric system but O’Malley has said this isn’t an issue he feels passionate about. So, there is that.

  111. 111.

    sukabi

    June 3, 2015 at 10:12 pm

    Perhaps Bernie would be more inclined to adopt the label if the folks that wear it actually lived up to democratic principles and worked for the people, not the corporations.

  112. 112.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 10:15 pm

    @sukabi: Perhaps. But if that’s why he’s ashamed to adopt it, I hope he has the courage and leadership to be honest and upfront about his reasons.

  113. 113.

    sukabi

    June 3, 2015 at 10:34 pm

    @Baud: or maybe he’s proud of actually advocating for social democracy

  114. 114.

    Baud

    June 3, 2015 at 10:36 pm

    @sukabi: He can do that regardless of whether he calls himself a Democrat or not.

  115. 115.

    Freemark

    June 3, 2015 at 10:41 pm

    People complaining about Bernie not being a Democrat is some of the stupidest stuff I’ve read today, and I just came over from reading the Conservative Tribune. First, the DNC was extremely grateful Bernie chose to run as a Democrat. If he had run as an independent or Democratic Socialist it could have been devastating for the Democratic Party’s chances in the Presidential race. Second, as almost everyone here on BJ agrees the Democratic Party has been too beholden to Wall Street these last decades. Having someone who avoided being part of that Wall Street-Democrat machine is a big damn plus. Bernie is a better Democratic politician than most ‘real’ Democrats.

    This butt hurt because Bernie isn’t an official member is childish. It is a ‘bros before hos’ frat mentality. Personally I would vote for a Republican if that person was a better choice than the Democrat. I say screw my Democrat bros in that situation and screw anyone who wouldn’t do the same.

    . And just one more reminder, Bernie is doing the Democratic Party a solid favor by not running as a Democratic Socialist.
    Someone upthread stated

    Then he should start his own party and seek its nomination if he thinks ours is not to his liking

    Thank F-ing God he chose to not do that. Christ on a cracker have you forgotten Florida, Nader, and G.W. already? Do you really want Scott Walker to be President?

  116. 116.

    sukabi

    June 3, 2015 at 11:01 pm

    @Freemark: yep.

  117. 117.

    jl

    June 3, 2015 at 11:23 pm

    @Freemark: I think Sanders is also doing himself a favor, that is, being smart about it. He has a very good chance to have a real impact on the election, and even a not-zero chance of winning the nomination by running in Democratic primary. If he tried to do it as an independent or start his own party his chances of either would be indistinguishable from what he would get by doing nothing at all, which would be zero.

    From what I have seen of polls, he has a good chance of getting 10 to 20 percent support in early primaries with a relatively small effort. People will have to pay some attention to him. He would get some amused media coverage but not much else running on his own.

  118. 118.

    Freemark

    June 3, 2015 at 11:46 pm

    @jl: I agree, but I also think he could get 5%+ of the general election vote if he really wanted to. Of course he knows what that would do and he is a pretty good guy. I was mostly pointing out that Bernie running under a different party, as was suggested, would be much more damaging to the Democratic Party than allowing him to run as a Democrat in the Democratic primary.

    I also find people worrying more about the letter after his name than what he has done in the past and would do as President pretty ridiculous.

  119. 119.

    Ruckus

    June 4, 2015 at 12:25 am

    @Freemark:
    Agreed.
    Without that letter he’s not one of the gang. Not that there aren’t members of the gang that really shouldn’t be. But we are supposed to be an accepting gang, supposedly allowing in anyone who wants to be in. He’s said he is running as a democrat, in the democratic primaries and the general if by some miracle he gets there.
    But, but, but he’s not perfect, he won’t put the right letter behind his name!
    I’ve seen plenty of politicians with a D behind their names who I wish wouldn’t have it there. It’s a big country and there is plenty of room on our side of the isle for all those people who don’t want to go backwards 3 centuries in time, to a world that never existed, one they’ve dreamed up in their tiny minds. I find someone who wants to move forward in a realistic way, that’s my vote. Names, labels, color, gender, whatever don’t mean shit.

  120. 120.

    El Caganer

    June 4, 2015 at 12:48 am

    But if we can convince Sanders to run as an independent or third-party candidate, in 18 months we might all be able to say, “Thanksbernie!”

  121. 121.

    David Koch

    June 4, 2015 at 1:15 am

    @Freemark: The labels argument is dumb. That said, Bernie is a terrible politician. He’s been in office for 25 years and he has only passed 3 bills. 2 of which were to rename local post offices.

    And let’s not make Bernie’s decision to run as a Dem altruistic. He if ran 3rd party he wouldn’t get 5% because he wouldn’t have ballot access, money, and free air time on MSNBC. To prove that, Nader only got 0.38% of vote in 2004 and he ended up in debt. Moreover, he would lose power in the senate if he ran 3rd party. And every skeleton in his closet would be exposed. You think that rape fantasy he wrote was the only thing Clinton found. He’s making this run within the party out of self preservation. I mean, why do you think he trembles when ever he’s asked bout Hillary.

  122. 122.

    Freemark

    June 4, 2015 at 2:24 am

    @David Koch: I agree it wasn’t an altruistic decision, I never said it was. I was pointing out that having him run as a third party candidate would be bad for Democrats. Looking at his history he definitely would have if he thought it was the best way to push for progressive issues.

    He is also a good politician. Just because he chooses not to excel at centrist triangulation doesn’t change the fact that he is a good politician and a good man. Sure he only passed 1 non-naming bill, but that is 1 more than Hilary Clinton passed. He has also added 100’s of amendments to bills. I also like the fact he has successfully fought entrenched business interests since becoming mayor in Burlington, even beating a candidate that had the backing of both the Republican and Democrat machines. Bernie has proven to be an excellent representative for his state and for the United States. What is your basis for your hostility towards him?

  123. 123.

    David Koch

    June 4, 2015 at 5:04 am

    @Freemark:

    When he votes to keep GITMO open is that progressive or centrist triangulation?

    When he votes to permanently immunize gun manufacturers from all civil suits is that progressive or centrist triangulation?

    When he votes against the Brady Bill is that progressive or centrist triangulation?

    When he voted against comprehensive immigration reform in 2007 was that progressive or centrist triangulation?

    When he voted for Bill Clinton’s mass incarceration bill was that progressive or centrist triangulation?

    When he voted to make 14 parts of the patriot act permanent was that progressive or centrist triangulation?

    When he supports $1.2 trillion dollars for the F-35 is that progressive or centrist triangulation?

    When he supports israel’s brutal attacks on palestinian territories is that progressive or centrist triangulation?

    When he praised Bush for his carpet bombing of Iraq was that progressive or centrist triangulation?

    When he says we must continue Droning brown people is that progressive or centrist triangulation?

    I could keep going on and on and on, but I won’t.

    clap louder.

    end of transmission

  124. 124.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    June 4, 2015 at 10:21 am

    On O’Malley, I don’t think going after HRC on the dynasty angle is a particularly republican or out of bounds attack. Going after her age is a little beyond the pale – I don’t expect anyone to get much traction from that attack anyway though.

    O’Malleys main flaw is that after raising several taxes that affect working and middle class people throughout his administration, late in his second term he signed a a bill that cut the MD Estate Tax significantly. I really can’t forgive him for that. He can spout all the populist BS he wants about Wall Street fat cats, but in light of his record of raising taxes on the many and cutting them for the wealthy few, they ring very hollow to me as a Maryland voter.

  125. 125.

    Bex

    June 4, 2015 at 11:21 am

    Very late to the party, but I wanted to recommend this interview to Tom…from one Wolf Hall fan to another:

    http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/6360/art-of-fiction-no-226-hilary-mantel#.VXBlzj_vrFY.email

  126. 126.

    Freemark

    June 4, 2015 at 11:41 am

    @David Koch: Thanks for explaining your reasons. I think they are rather poor reasons but to each his own. The funny thing he is much better on the issues you don’t like him for, other than gun control, than any other declared candidate. So I assume you are even more hostile to Hillary and O’Malley, right?

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