Hillary Clinton identified another vast right-wing conspiracy today:
HOUSTON — Saying there is a sweeping effort underway across the country to disenfranchise people of color from voting, Hillary Clinton called for universal, automatic voter registration for every citizen when they turn 18, at a speech at Texas Southern University in Houston, one of the largest historically black colleges in the nation.
“I think this would have a profound impact on our elections and our democracy,” she said.
People would be able to opt out of being automatically registered under the proposal, Clinton said. She also called for the adoption of an early voting standard of at least 20 days before an election across the country, along with increased availability to online voter registration and reduced waiting times on election day.
Maybe she’s just pandering because she’s an ambition-addled she-beast — so what? For various reasons, including deliberate civic malpractice on the part of elected officials, too many Americans don’t register and don’t show up at the polls. Anything that moves the needle on that helps Democrats.
ETA: Here’s a link to the speech — H/T: valued commenter Elizabelle.
All the King’s Horses…
Baud
Interesting that she gave this speech in Texas.
Mike G
If Selective Service can get a draft registration out every male citizen when they turn 18, the government can organize automatic voter registration at 18.
But many people don’t want them to.
MobiusKlein
@Mike G: Well, perhaps registering for the draft should also register you to vote automatically?
Major Major Major Major
I’m in “trust but verify” mode with her, but if she keeps running this kind of campaign and doesn’t hire any of the 2008 fuck-ups, I dunno, I might do Bernie in the primary just for fun but I’m on Team Clinton.
Helen
The right wing meme is going to be “Of course she wants more days of voting; the more days there are to vote, the more chances there are for voter fraud [by DemoRATS, of course].”
Hunter Gathers
I’m sure that our MSM betters will chalk this up to pandering to the blahs at the expense of Real ‘Murikans, whose main priorities are fearing Mooslems, fearing Teh Gay, and lowering the capitol gains tax.
Mike J
@MobiusKlein: I much prefer Hillary’s plan. There should be a presumption of registration.
raven
@MobiusKlein: Yea and register women while we are at it.
MobiusKlein
@Mike J: Yeah. I was just aiming at maximum wingnut cognitive dissonance?
Elizabelle
I’m glad to hear that.
Does anyone have a link to the speech? Checking if C-Span has scheduled a rebroadcast (in between Rick Perry announcement reruns. Le sigh.)
khead
Yup. I look forward to asking folks “You don’t support automatic voter registration? Why not?”
cokane
Sunday or holiday elections would probably help turnout the most
Brachiator
@Major Major Major Major:
Nicely done proposal. It’s really not very controversial, and prompts the GOP to say something stupid.
Helen
@Major Major Major Major:
This is exactly how I feel; word for word. Not only the “trust but verify” but also, too, she’s gonna win NY. Why not vote for Sanders in the primary?
Chris T.
Here’s something I have been wondering about ever since I saw how you can vote using your gun ID in Texas, but not using your other IDs: just how hard/easy is it to get a gun ID? Maybe instead of trying to register Texans to vote using the impossible standards of “no typos on the birth certificate, no name changes unless you married a Republican”, the D’s in Texas should just get everyone a carry permit.
Major Major Major Major
Have you guys ever done poll watching? It’s infuriating, especially in minority-heavy districts. The Republicans are so well organized at the local level that all the ‘volunteers’ are party hacks and will stop at nothing to prevent brown people from getting a ballot. In 2008 we had to send a lawyer to every majority-minority polling place in Denver (this was not an easy undertaking) to stand behind the ‘volunteers’ and loudly spout election laws, to nobody in particular since they weren’t allowed to talk to anybody, should a voter be challenged.
Now imagine finding that many lawyer volunteers who speak Spanish, god that week was rough.
It would generally go like “Hmm, well, I have a Juan D. Ramirez from Fair Dr. on the list here, but I’ll need to see your ID.” And the lawyer would loudly proclaim in the general direction of the line in two languages that you don’t need ID to vote in Colorado. Or if there was a right-church-wrong-pew situation, they had to find a way to either let the person know they could get a provisional ballot or point them to the right polling place without, you know… “talking to” them. The GOP is a bunch of shameless monsters. The combat goes down to every polling place. This has to stop.
ETA: Oh, and the night before the election, all the lawyers got a mysterious robocall telling them they wouldn’t be needed. Like, seriously. We all know they have to cheat to win–2000, gerrymandering, etc.–but they’re just ridiculous! Thinking about that call makes me so angry.
greennotGreen
FTFY
Baud
@cokane:
Election Day on Christmas Day!
Baud
@greennotGreen:
One and the same these days.
Mike J
@Major Major Major Major:
It doesn’t happen in Washington. All vote by mail.
kc
This proposal is the right thing to do.
Bonus: It will send the wingnuts into orbit.
trollhattan
@Baud:
What, and miss fighting over bargains at the WalMart? No thank you!
Major Major Major Major
@Mike J: @Mike J: ∀(P)(∃(C)) & ∃(S(Sn == “Washington”) & ~∃(P(PsN == “Washington”))
My statement is still technically correct (the best kind of correct). Librarian’d!
Elizabelle
Here’s C-Span video from Hillary’s speech.
Elizabelle
@Chris T.: I kind of like that idea. Do you need to own a gun to hold a carry permit? (Because would guess the carry permit attaches to you, and not the weapon.)
Brachiator
@Major Major Major Major:
Never seen a problem in California, or in Connecticut when I voted there. I’ve never seen a poll worker challenge a voter. But I have seen them help a person find his or her name on the rolls so that they could sign it. And I’ve seen assistance given to a person with a disability who needed assistance voting. Pretty standard stuff, fortunately.
srv
So you’re wanting a National ID voter card. You could probably get that as long as you were willing to kick out those who don’t have one.
Democracy is about hard choices.
Major Major Major Major
@Brachiator: Colorado was pretty hotly contested that year, could just be that I suppose. But they went all-out.
Roger Moore
@cokane:
They’d be a good idea, but short lines are incredibly important. The US has an unfortunate tendency not to take holidays very seriously, so plenty of people, especially poor people, will still be working even though it’s a weekend or holiday. Unless those people can reasonably expect to get in and out of their voting place quickly, they may not be able to vote for fear of losing their job for being late. A good long early voting period, so people can vote when it fits with their work and life schedule, would be a huge help, too. Voting by mail would also be another reasonable alternative.
NotMax
It sounds attractive, but not quite sure if I yet favor jumping to federal registration.
20 days of early voting (as opposed to absentee voting – people can have obligations which preclude getting to the polls on Election Day) is too many. There’s an awful lot that can drop in the final three weeks of any campaign. Strengthening and enforcing regulations that people must be granted time off to vote on Election Day, with no stigma attached for taking that time, would be kind of a nice thing, too. So would instituting a uniform (and rational) proportion of machines/booths to number of eligible voters in each district.
Brachiator
@Hunter Gathers:
This may be a problem that takes care of itself. Increasingly, the only people who even care about the MSM are baby boomers or Gen Xers. The younger generations have less and less regard for the usual media suspects.
Kay
I don’t think she’s pandering. Clinton has a genuine, substantive record on voting rights.
She’ll be really good on this. It may not be barn-burning! It’s process and process can be really boring but she knows the issue.
Helen
@Major Major Major Major: I think whether or not it is contested is key. I vote in NYC and have for 30 years. I have never had an access problem and I have never waited more than 20 minutes. (Although I waited 40 minutes in 2008 because I got there 30 minutes before the polls opened at 6am and the line was around the block; it was kind of a party – but once the polls were open, I was in and out).
fleeting expletive
Rachel Maddow has been doing outstanding work covering vote suppression issues. She has noted a time or two that while student IDs, etc., are deemed insufficient ID, a gun permit suffices. Last night her guest described helping people assemble acceptable ID by recovering documents. It led me to wonder why not just sign people up for gun permits? It’s not like you actually have to buy a gun with it. There might be issues with permits being issued to POC and the elderly, maybe. However, thanks to the gun-toters they don’t want any pesky background checks, right? I wonder if there is resistance to POC and students and the poor getting gun permits, I don’t know. I’m not and never will be a gun person.
Archon
Republicans arguments for their voting restriction laws are like a 2 year old who puts a blanket over their head and thinks they are invisible
Baud
@Kay:
And hopefully her talking about voting will remind people to vote.
David Koch
Anyone been to DKos lately?
The rank and file hate Hillary but still they’ve kept their emotion in check — until last week. Since Bernie’s kick off speech it’s turned into thunder dome. They’re going after her and the site’s administrators with blow torches.
I’ve run out of popcorn 4 times watching the flame wars.
Brachiator
@Major Major Major Major: I’m a little saddened and surprised to see the Colorado problems. Was this also the year of the votes on marijuana. Even allowing for some hot-button issues, I assumed that the state would be more mellow.
Elizabelle
@Major Major Major Major: Are you a librarian?
I wish I had thought to pursue that course of study. I know a librarian who writes mystery novels.
Elizabelle
@David Koch: I find myself rooting for Bernie. He is honestly raising the issues a lot of others elide past.
Which is not to say I am ever at Kos or Firedog (is that still around?) or HuffPost. Here is plenty.
WereBear
This is both ethical, and smart.
Because when more people vote, Democrats WIN. It’s that simple… and exactly why Republicans are so set on blocking this basic democratic right.
If HRC can get people stirred up about this, and she should be able to, that’s big.
Kay
@Baud:
I think it’ll be central to her campaign. I was once at this voting rights panel and one of her (former) senate staffers was there and she was passionate. You can kind of tell when you run into one of the tribe :)
Elizabelle
@Major Major Major Major: I am disgusted they elected Cory Gardner. I was there for part for a few weeks; saw the wall to wall commercials and the Denver Post endorsement (shame, shame).
Expected better of Colorado.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
Since it’s sort of a Texas thread,* did anybone else watch the video those open carry fools posted?
Raw Story had a story about it and I followed the link to watch. I have to say, the chief open carry clown sounds kinda exercised throughout. At points he sounded almost …scared. Clearly very pissed off, also too.
*Do you think Mexico would take it back if we asked really nicely and threw in AZ too? Or would we have to pay them too much money?
J R in WV
Betty said, in the original post:
I would say “….Anything that moves the needle on that helps Democracy in America.” instead, which is closer to the truth, and less politically charged. Hillary’s proposals are valuable and should not be frameable as Democratic proposals. Rather they should be framed as American proposals that will be good for America and for democracy in America.
We here all know that Republicans are anti-Democracy, anti-American, against a strong middle class, and strongly in favor of revoking the right to vote from as many people as they can, which is also anti-American in every way.
So we shouldn’t help them pose voting reform as anything but all-American and right down the American way. No matter how much that inconveniences them!
ETA: I see the Greennotgreen best me to it, no surprise. I just did get home and the groceries put away…
Kay
@Baud:
I bet they change their whole approach in Ohio because we now have (essentially) universal vote by mail. Everyone gets an absentee ballot. They don;’t have to use it – we still have in–person and “in person absentee” (early vote) but it might make sense to focus on the mail-in ballots.
People love early vote. It’s really popular because it’s convenient.
Major Major Major Major
@Brachiator: 2012 was the pot vote, I believe.
@Elizabelle: At least they kept Hickenlooper.
@Elizabelle: By education I’m a linguist and a librarian, but as I live in San Francisco I must alas do “Big Data”, whatever the hell that is.
Baud
@Kay:
I like early voting. No reason I need three extra weeks of campaigning to figure out who I’m voting for.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
Good job, Hillary. More of this please.
Elizabelle
@Major Major Major Major: I knew I liked you.
Cacti
I don’t much care if she’s pandering. A good cause is a good cause.
No one can oppose the right to vote and call themselves a patriot. The other side needs to be put on the defensive about this.
NotMax
@David Koch
In all my years online (which predate the formation of the Markos mini-empire) have never once been there.
Used to regularly visit Bartcop, Atrios and Somerby (among others) until each became too weird and/or cliquish for my taste. (And of course visited my own blog site, which ran for about a decade, as well as the site I guest blogged at while it operated.)
Baud
@NotMax:
I started out there. Not surprised they’re going crazy in this primary.
Elizabelle
@Cacti:
I know we are snarkers here, but this belongs as a tagline.
Bill Arnold
@Major Major Major Major:
Did anybody try to get the robocalls traced? (After all, “we” have been collecting all telephone metadata. Surely one of the recipients is 3 hops away from a “terrorist” – lawyers have connections to lots of people. /unsnark.)
Keith G
Is this snark?
One of our most important political leaders is addressing one of our most significant political problems and it might be interpreted as pandering?
Oy. An already too long campaign just got longer.
David Koch
@NotMax: did you run the late great Media Whores? if ya did that was great.
I remember every year he would let his vast readers vote on the Media Whore of the Year, and the hilarious part the winner would always change (russert, Bumiller), but the first runner-up would always be Howard Fineman. He finished first runner up like six years in a row. He was Susan Lucci.
Bill Arnold
@Chris T.:
This might actually work, at least as a stunt to get some favorable news coverage.
(Maybe my political instincts are shot today; too much deep troubleshooting.)
WereBear
I discovered them during the Howard Dean campaign. While there are some thoughtful pieces written for the site, and some excellent contributors, the comments are a swamp of one-up-manship and uncontrolled trolls. Haven’t been back to do more than read since an animal rights discussion derailed into an attack on me and Anna Sewell (the author of Black Beauty.)
Zinsky
Conservatives have not wanted to allow everyone the right to vote since Edmund Burke. They think a caste system is just fine and enslavement of people, whether by shackles or debt, is the natural order of things. If everyone who was eligible to vote, voted – the Republican Party would never win another election.
chris9059
“Maybe she’s just pandering because she’s an ambition-addled she-beast — so what?”
The ‘so what” is that if she is just pandering she won’t actually do anything to carry ou these ideas if elected.
David Koch
@Baud: the thing is it’s only the first week in June and they’re already gone nuclear. There’s still 8 more months before a ballot is cast.
Baud
@WereBear:
Firebaggery chased me away in 2010. I tried going back a couple of times since then, but the spirit they had during the Bush years was gone. It’s a shame because they have the resources to do good work (and the front pagers still do some good stuff from time to time).
Elizabelle
@chris9059: You sure about that? I think she would.
Botsplainer
On voter ID – don’t any of you remember back to the heady days of the late 80s and early 90s (and frankly, even earlier) whenever anybody talked about having national standard IDs for everybody, conservatards would squeal “OMG LIKE THE USSR AND ‘PAPERS, PLEASE’!!!!11!!ELEVENTY!!”? And how the Birchers would derail it further by hinting at dark conspiracies?
It always came down to trusting your local neighborhood conservative white election officials vouching for the inalienable right of conservative white folks to vote. Anybody else, not so much.
NotMax
@David Koch
Heh, nope.
Had a small but loyal audience – a not inconsequential number of posts were highlighted on Crooks & Liars and also at Avedon Carol’s place back in the day though, so traffic was steady.
Kerry Reid
It will probably never happen, but it would be nice if the whole country could adopt the vote-by-mail procedures of Oregon.
Betty Cracker
@Keith G: Yeah, it’s snark. I thought “ambition-addled she-beast” would make that clear, but as always, I should have remembered Poe’s Law…
Kay
@chris9059:
She’s been at this a while though. This is (basically) the Count Every Vote Act which was intended to improve the Help America Vote Act (2002).
Clinton and Boxer introduced the basic guidelines she’s talking about here in 2005. She was on this early. In 2005 people were still assuming good faith on the part of the GOP and voting.
lamh36
RIP!! Heartbreak in one picture!!
shell
I think the dumbest RW response to expanded voting was Dennis Praeger on his radio show. He contended that expanded and early voting took away from ‘the dignity of election day.’ He said this back in 2012, and all these years later I still can’t figure out what the fuck he was talking about.
WereBear
It’s not special when other people can do it?
NotMax
@Kerry Reid
You’ve obviously never made us of the post offices in Hawaii.
“It’ll get to the correct address eventually. Maybe.”
More seriously, surprised no insidious forces have yet bribed postal workers to divert or impede ballots mailed from select ZIP codes..
Betty Cracker
@lamh36: My heart aches for them. I can’t imagine.
Botsplainer
@shell:
Oh, I know – giggling, pudgy, pasty faced chinmullets guffawing about challenging elderly black voters who brave hours long lines into provisional ballots.
Shoot a few chinmullets on Election Day (standing your ground, so to speak) and the stupid shit will stop. Not a lot of real courage in that crew.
Russ
As Bernie stirs the pot, truth rises to the top and lies sink to the bottom. I have watched Bernie politic for 30 years and given a stage, he performs.
Kay
@shell:
People like it and it’s convenient so there isn;t enough sacrificing going on.
They’re big liars anyway. Republicans always expand absentee voting. They just object to early voting. Their voters skew older and absentee voters do too, or that was always the conventional wisdom until Democrats started organizing around early voting.
It isn’t rocket science from an organizing standpoint, You can send out a huge group of people to GOTV in one 12 hour chaotic mess or you can slowly and carefully bank votes over 2 weeks, One works better than the other.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
@Cacti:
I’m stealing this.
Elizabelle
@lamh36: I saw that. They’re devastated. And Beau deserves it.
Helen
Chris Fucking Matthews just said that there is voter fraud. And then he invoked Mayor Daley and the Kennedy election. That was 55 years ago. Even I wasn’t born then. And I am old. JFC!!!!!!!!
Keith G
@Betty Cracker: I figured it might be, but then I lost track of which FPers can deal rationally with HRC and which can’t.
Major Major Major Major
@Keith G: Isn’t it just John who can’t?
From some of his recent HRC posts it’s almost like he’s fallen off the wagon. Note that I am not suggesting that, nor doing a BS “unfair not to speculate” thing, just that he gets crazy whenever she’s involved.
Patrick
@Helen:
Shouldn’t Chris Matthews be at Mt Rushmore admiring George W Bush’s face…
Kay Eye
“It is wrong — deadly wrong — to deny any of your fellow Americans the right to vote in this country.” – Lyndon Baines Johnson, delivering the Voting Rights act to Congress and demanding its early passage, 15 March 1965.
SiubhanDuinne
@Helen:
That’s just Tweety being Tweety. And good for the person who immediately pointed out that the “voter fraud” came from the Daley machine and not from the voters themselves.
A couple of minutes before that, he played a clip from Hillary’s speech, and I have to say I loved the fact that she name-checked four of her putative GOP rivals — Perry, Walker, Christie and ¡Jeb! — for passing or signing or indulging in a slew of voter suppression legislation and activities in their respective states. She really does seem to be running a better campaign this time around, and if she keeps doing stuff like this I will have no qualms about supporting her in the general.
Betty Cracker
@SiubhanDuinne: HRC also called voting fraud a non-existent problem in her speech. I was glad to hear that because the whole GOP voter suppression enterprise rests on the easily disproven lie that they’re addressing that “problem.”
Jay C
@Helen:
Jeez, Helen: what precinct do you live in? I live on the UES (and in NYC for 34 years), and the last BIG election I voted in (2012), I had to wait one hour and 50 minutes from first getting in line, to finally dropping my ballot. Due solely to “volume” (as the traffic reporters say). In 2000 (another biggie, due to HRC on the ballot), I had well over an hour at the West Side YMCA – big place, LOT of voters…
Since then, though, we’ve gone to vote-by mail: Mrs.Jay is semi-disabled, and really can’t vote in person: and for me (public “social event” as Election Day might be), I’d just as soon forgo the lines. After all, for collecting in public to participate in elections? Isn’t that why they have bars??
SiubhanDuinne
@Betty Cracker:
Exactly. And, just as I’d prefer to have a guilty person walk free than see an innocent person convicted, so I’d rather see a few ineligible/fraudulent people showing up at the polls than have honest (potential) voters denied the franchise.
fuckwit
@Mike J: No shit? That’a a great idea! No wonder you got marijuana legalized, you don’t even have to get up off your couch to vote, man!
Voting should be as easy as shopping. Fuck, it should be EASIER than shopping, because it is so much more important.
This is a brilliant idea. Automatic registration, motor-voter, and all ballots are mail-in. No excuse not to vote. I can see the right wing heads explode already.
joel hanes
@David Koch:
Media Whores
Still desperately needed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT: Kasie Hunt of MSNBC is talking about Rick Perry’s military experience and “connection to veterans”.
He wasn’t exactly Sergeant York. Also, she said the US had a tradition of electing veterans up until “Bill Clinton and Barack Obama”. I guess Reagan’s work with the Hollywood Canteen counts as combat now.
mclaren
I don’t give a shit why Hillary said it, it’s true and it’s the right time to say it, and it’s about time some major national political figure said it. More, please!
Major Major Major Major
I’ve never cast a vote in person. I much prefer the method where I crack open a beer, put on “Democracy” by Leonard Cohen, and fill out the ballot at home.
Although given the length of ballots in SF I actually had to make a full playlist once I moved.
ETA: On a policy note, ONLINE VOTING IS THE WORST IDEA EVER AND SHOULD NEVER BE DONE. I know Hillary didn’t say anything in that direction, but a lot of people don’t seem to understand just how horrible of an idea it is.
fuckwit
@Major Major Major Major: The whole country does. But if she keeps up stuff like this, that’ll stop. This is awesome to hear from her, and indeed every candidate up and down the ticket should have this on their platform. ESPECIALLY those at the state levell! That’s where these decisions get made.
Do you suppose it might be too late to start initiative campaigns in EVERY state, identical ballot propositions, like the way ALEC does it, requiring automatic registration and mail-in ballots by default?
Helen
@Jay C: I’m in Forest Hills, Queens. ED31, SD16, CD6, AD28. I have been here 11 years. Before that I was in Rego Park for 16 years. Never had a problem. Ever.
Mandalay
Not so. A couple of minutes on Google will show you that Clinton has a long and rock solid record on voting rights, including drafting legislation. And she certainly has a far stronger track record than anyone else running for president.
I have little love for her, but can we permanently drop the idea that she might be pandering? There is plenty of shit to throw her way, but on voting rights there is absolutely no reason to believe that she is not totally sincere.
ETA Even as a joke.
satby
@lamh36: That just breaks my heart. That family has suffered so much.
fuckwit
@Major Major Major Major: Not necssarily. The security isn’t there yet. But you neglect to mention that most voting is already online voting. Once your paper ballot gets collected, it goes into a machine. After that, it’s all electronic. Reading up about Diebold etc might be useful. Those systems are horribly insecure and a lot of them are net-connected back to the county office, net-connected from there to the state, etc. It’s not more secure than direct online voting would be, and not at all transparent.
If we do it right, though,, it might be possible to make the system a LOT more transparent than it is now. It may be possible to do something clever in a bitcoin-y kind of way, to create a cryptographically-strong hash of all votes such that you can verify that your vote was in fact counted, while still remainig anonymous.
I think the goal would be to go for accountabiliy, security, and transparency first, then try to see how far down towards the actual voter the stack could be pushed. There is a lot hat could be done. Unfortunately the people who really know this stuff tend to be glibertarian douchebags. That’s not to say we couldn’t learn a lot from their experiments and evolve the technology over the next few decades to where it is usable at a statewide-elecction level.
fuckwit
@Mandalay: Also, “pandering” assumes that you’re trying to appeal to some group of which you aren’t a member. Mrs. Clinton (formerly Ms. Rodham) certainly is a part of the group threatened by voter suppression: women who change their name due to marriage or divorce can easily lose their ability to vote, and perhaps that’s even intentionally part of the voter suppression plan.
Mike in NC
@Patrick: Chris Matthews admired a different part of Bush’s anatomy.
Mike in NC
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: St Reagan famously claimed to have been a witness to the liberation of Nazi concentration camps. Pure bullshit and the media never called him on it.
jl
Keeping people of color from voting is probably top priority, but the GOP would like keep a whole lot of people from voting, pretty much any group with less than 60 percent probability of voting GOP. I can’t watch the speech right now, but later when I do, I hope I see she gave equal time.
Zinsky
@Mike in NC: “…a different part of Bush’s anatomy.”
I don’t know what’s to admire? I’ll bet Dubya was hung like a hamster. Loudmouth drunks like him usually are.
jl
@Patrick: Matthews needs to be on a very long tape delay so a fact checker can go over the ignorant BS he spouts. Matthews likes to do infotainment, using random info that might be right or wrong (flip a coin) from the gut.
Tom Q
@Jay C: I think 2012 was an anomalous election in NYC. I live in the West 70s, and I’d never waited more than 15 minutes to vote (that had been in 2008, when everybody was revved up and almost enjoyed standing in line). But in 2012 it took me almost two hours. It was largely due to suddenly being sent to a different polling place (one they abandoned the next year); it almost felt like someone had screwed it up on purpose.
Calouste
@J R in WV:
Revoking the vote from people, either before the election (usually domestic), or after the election via a coup (usually abroad) is as American as apple pie and baseball. Of course, you’re talking theory, I’m talking practice.
Major Major Major Major
@fuckwit: nothing beats the paper trail. Every recount goes back to the printed ballots. When you’re dealing with something as important as voting, you should assume that every computer is always hacked. Don’t condescend to think I haven’t heard of Diebold either.
schrodinger's cat
Why not make it easier to vote, make election day a national holiday.
schrodinger's cat
@Brachiator: If they are getting their news from Facebook is that really any better?
NotMax
@schrodinger’s cat
Because, people being people, in many cases would take off Monday in order to garner a four-day weekend and wouldn’t be there to show up on Tuesday.
Also too, post offices would be closed for a federal holiday, so mail-in ballots would be delayed.
schrodinger's cat
@NotMax: In addition to making election day a holiday have a fine for not voting like in Australia.
NotMax
@schrodinger’s cat
Absolutely not.
There should never be any sort of monetary transaction involved or required (either via incentive or via fine) for voting or not voting.
Valdivia
@lamh36: heartbreaking.
Allan
@David Koch: Sounds like they could use some more kerosene.
schrodinger's cat
@NotMax: So you are fine with the current system that produces voter turnout in the mid 30 percent range for midterms? You don’t think any changes are needed ?
doofus
I was in college during Bill Clinton’s administration; before that I had generally considered myself a Republican (I really wasn’t, in a lot of ways; it just took me some time and thought to sort it all out). One of the major factors that I recall as being pivotal in my switch in party ID was the response that I heard from Republicans to Clinton’s signing of the Motor Voter Act in ’93.
The racism, the belief that “those people” (a division that was both racial and classist) should somehow be catered to and be made eligible to vote, was inescapable. Prior to that I had assumed that Republicans were just Americans who held slightly different policy beliefs – not a group that considered anyone outside of bubble to be not quite American. Despite the missteps of the Clinton years, the signing of that law is (among other things) something that has always counted very favorable with me.
cmorenc
@Chris T.:
That…is an absolutely brilliant idea! Query what kind of i.d. you need to show to get a gun carry permit?
NotMax
@schrodinger’s cat
No, not at all. It’s a multifaceted dilemma which will likely take as long to alleviate as it did to develop, including restoring the general public’s trust and sense of direct connection to and from their government. Neither of your proposed changes represents a solution any more effective than slapping a Band-Aid on a compound fracture, IMHO.
Gian
this is almost as ironic as rain on a wedding day. one of the things that made Hillary a Goldwater girl was the “theft” of Illinois in the 1960 election.
which totally flipped the whole election, except if you look at a 1960 map, and give Illinois to Nixon (the treasonous bastard) He still loses. So it actually didn’t.
NotMax
@Gian
Not to mention that the Nixon campaign undertook their own shenanigans with the vote in downstate Illinois.
mclaren
@NotMax:
I agree wholeheartedly. People should not be fined for failing to vote.
They should simply be prohibited from watching the Super Bowl in any format.
That would get voting rates up to about, oh, 99.9999%.
Omnes Omnibus
@mclaren: Not after you ban all sports.
Katy
@cmorenc: You have to have a driver’s license or Texas ID, have taken a gun course and passed a shooting test, paid a $140 fee (or $70 if elderly or indigent), send in fingerprints, etc etc etc – see http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/faqs/index.htm – not practical except maybe as a stunt.
Omnes Omnibus
@Katy: Does qualifying in the army as an expert count?
Another Holocene Human
I’m glad that Hilary, as a middle-class white woman of a certain age, is loudly promoting this concept. You know how some white people, or shall I say, those people, will only hear it from their own kind.
The only thing better would be a white straight dude saying it.
Another Holocene Human
@Katy: Or live in a rural county and be best buds with the Sheriff and friendly with the DMV clerks or whoever processes it.
Seen this before and it’s not corruption exactly, if you live in a small place all/most of your life, the gov’t clerks know you and don’t check your documentation. As for the cops, most states have the cops review permits to interdict people who shouldn’t have gun permits*, although in TX it might be automatic.
*-this phrase should mean something meaningful, but we all know what it really means
Chris
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Not to mention the blatant draft-dodging of George W. Bush.
samiam
So cute when bloggers/gardners/cooks/domestic engineers etc. think they know how to run a presidential campaign better than Obama or Clinton.
From what I am seeing, she is being well advised. These are very shrewdly planned political wedge issues that she is bringing up. There is nothing better for Democrats than to get the clowns hating on immigrants and a fair voting process among other things. Best to bring it up now so that all the clowns will be asked about it by the media and in debates.
Kerry Reid
@Major Major Major Major: I also always voted by mail when I lived in SF. Those ballot initiatives turned it into a phone book and I actually wanted to take time and not just mark stuff willy-nilly. Crazy, I know! But seriously — it was an all-evening endeavor.
Elliot J
Colorado has gone to an all-mail ballot, tho’ for some reason, during the last recall in Pueblo, prompted by the whole OH NOES THEY’RE TAKING OUR GUNS AWAY crowd after the state legislature passed some (quite modest, IMHO) gun control legislation, the Libertarians were able to object that they hadn’t made the ballot and then everyone had to go to the polls…quite the clusterfrell…
http://www.coloradoindependent.com/129340/libertarian-court-victory-throws-recall-elections-into-turmoil
J R in WV
@Calouste:
“Revoking the vote from people, either before the election (usually domestic), or after the election via a coup (usually abroad) is as American as apple pie and baseball. ”
Yes, this is true, and living in West Virginia I know this better than most. Many years ago a neighbor asked me to give him a lift to go vote late in the day, I had voted early with Mrs J before she left to go to work.
After Tom went in to the polls, I noticed an acquaintance down the parking row, and strolled over to chat. He was working the poll, he told me, as usual. Billy was elderly and ran a garage and tow truck service. He had a case of pint bottle of whiskey under the seat of his PU truck, nearly empty.
He said “I’m ’bout done for today, here, have one.” I told him I had already voted, and he said he understood, and just really wanted to get rid of all of them as he didn’t drink. So I took one, and we drank it after we got home. With some amount of glee!
The next day I called the US AG for the district and squealed on Billy, because I don’t approve of tweaking the vote. Many pols from my county have gone to jail, one even had the gall to run again after getting out, and WON as a felon! So now all the plea deals include never running for electoral office, never accepting work from political parties, committees, or government jobs.
But really, everyone should be registered when they hit 18, and receive an absentee ballot 3 weeks before election day. Heck, even if you wanted to vote in person to visit with the neighbors you only see when they volunteer, having a ballot in hand would let you research who to vote for in the obscure races.
rikyrah
@Major Major Major Major:
thanks for your info.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I vote in the basement of the building where I work. I get out of work right before others would get out, so the most I’ve waited over the past few years is 20 minutes.