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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Eating-Related Open Thread: “Can We Finally Treat Food Workers Fairly?”

Eating-Related Open Thread: “Can We Finally Treat Food Workers Fairly?”

by Anne Laurie|  June 12, 20158:16 pm| 147 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Don't Mourn, Organize, Food, Open Threads

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No Recipe Exchange tonight (everybody keep a positive thought that TaMara finds her best new house soon!), so here’s a Mark Bittman NYTimes column I’ve been saving:

Two pieces of seemingly unrelated news last week show just how deficient our values are when it comes to the treatment of the lowest paid workers in our economy, the largest portion of whom are employed in the food chain.

First, Los Angeles followed Seattle and San Francisco in setting its minimum wage at $15 per hour. With New York looking as if it might join the club, $15 could become the new, de facto $7.25, the current federal minimum hourly wage. (As I’ve mentioned before, many tipped workers make even less than that.) A couple of days later, Walmart, among the worst offenders in the realm of labor abuse, announced that it would push its suppliers for improvements in … animal welfare.

If Walmart’s new rules are enforced, they’d be stricter and more humane than any set by federal agencies. But the standards are voluntary, vague and without a deadline; and the company has a history of not following through on its promises.

And what does it say that you can buy a can of tuna guaranteed to be dolphin-safe but can’t guarantee that its human producers — fishers, processors, transporters, packers, sales representatives — haven’t been abused?…

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Reader Interactions

147Comments

  1. 1.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    And what does it say that you can buy a can of tuna guaranteed to be dolphin-safe but can’t guarantee that its human producers — fishers, processors, transporters, packers, sales representatives — haven’t been abused?

    I say we full-throatedly push for a trade agreement with several countries around the Pacific that maintain excellent standards in both labor and animal rights.
    Who’s with me?

  2. 2.

    Pogonip

    June 12, 2015 at 8:29 pm

    Geg6 says she sent you pictures of Lovey. Can we see them too?

  3. 3.

    TaMara (BHF)

    June 12, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    Just put in a bid. I’m not hopeful. But…must keep up the attempts. I second Lovey pix.

  4. 4.

    NotMax

    June 12, 2015 at 8:38 pm

    And what does it say that you can buy a can of tuna guaranteed to be dolphin-safe but can’t guarantee that its human producers — fishers, processors, transporters, packers, sales representatives — haven’t been abused?…

    It says we don’t knowingly eat canned worker.

  5. 5.

    Pogonip

    June 12, 2015 at 8:42 pm

    @TaMara (BHF): I’m rooting for you!

    Come on, folks! Bang your tin cups on the table and shout with me! “Lovey! Lovey! Lovey! Lovey!”. Amir, are you there? If you are, help our demand for more Lovey go worldwide! Chime in! (Likewise any other readers outside the U.S., which is where I am.)

  6. 6.

    Cervantes

    June 12, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    here’s a Mark Bittman NYTimes column I’ve been saving

    They should fire Brooks, Friedman, Dowd, and Douthat, and run Bittman’s op-eds repeatedly instead.

  7. 7.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    I finished the first season of Sense8 over the week. Can’t say it left me with a desire to see more.

  8. 8.

    ? Martin

    June 12, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    My republican mom is at the Bernie Sanders rally. Can’t wait for that phone call.

  9. 9.

    Betty Cracker

    June 12, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    @Corner Stone: Haven’t seen that yet. I was binge-watching “Orange Is the New Black” but am taking a baseball break. President Obama can’t catch a break. First the Democrats in congress tank his trade bill, and now the Rays are beating the White Sox! (Of course, reversals are possible for both scenarios.)

    @Pogonip: Love-ee-pix! Love-ee-pix! Love-ee-pix!

    @TaMara (BHF): I hope it works out for you and that you end up with an extra special kitchen!

  10. 10.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 12, 2015 at 8:54 pm

    @Corner Stone: That would be swell.

    Too bad that the TPP isn’t transparent enough a process to assure that such a thing will happen, because I don’t trust the parasitical vermin of the .01% any farther than my cat can throw them, and my cat can only throw up.

  11. 11.

    Tommy

    June 12, 2015 at 8:55 pm

    @Corner Stone: Sorry to hear that. As I said last night I thought the show started really slow, but at least for me the last half of the shows picked up and I found myself really enjoying it.

  12. 12.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 12, 2015 at 8:55 pm

    @NotMax: Soylent Green is people! People!

  13. 13.

    Baud

    June 12, 2015 at 8:56 pm

    @? Martin:

    Why is she there?

  14. 14.

    Roger Moore

    June 12, 2015 at 8:58 pm

    @NotMax:

    It says we don’t knowingly eat canned worker.

    Which is a pretty short-sighted attitude. Many of the safety problems with our food system are ultimately the result of trying to cut corners and deliver everything as cheaply as possible. That includes various forms of mistreating workers, which tends to result in lousy quality.

  15. 15.

    Cervantes

    June 12, 2015 at 8:58 pm

    @? Martin:

    Vermont Republican?

  16. 16.

    ? Martin

    June 12, 2015 at 9:00 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Thankfully we can now continue to rely on China to call the shots on global trade, because you can hardly beat their transparency and willingness to fight for american workers.

  17. 17.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:00 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    (Of course, reversals are possible for both scenarios.)

    However any outlet frames it, I hope they can sustain a defeat for this truly F’d up trade deal. I doubt that’s going to happen but it’s absolutely hilarious that we went from needing 45 or so D House votes to suddenly needing 100+ D House votes. And then Pelosi who can count, unlike Boehner, drops the hammer after escorting the president.

  18. 18.

    Tenar Darell

    June 12, 2015 at 9:01 pm

    Sighs, no Lovey. How about this box of corgi puppies?

  19. 19.

    Anne Laurie

    June 12, 2015 at 9:03 pm

    @Pogonip: Just got them a couple hours ago. I’m saving them for the early-morning Saturday thread, when more people will have a chance to appreciate them!

  20. 20.

    Iowa Old Lady

    June 12, 2015 at 9:03 pm

    @NotMax: We are starting to descend into Jonathan Swift territory.

  21. 21.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    @Tommy: I enjoyed some vignettes of the last half of the series but they were way too far and in between. When you’re waiting on the skinny bitch and Wolfgang to save the day, and running from Whispers you’re kind of losing my attention.

  22. 22.

    Tommy

    June 12, 2015 at 9:07 pm

    I want to be careful how I say this. I make a good living. I am also something of a foodie. I can afford to pay a little, or a lot more for food than maybe many of my fellow citizens. I live in a rural area now and I don’t have a Fresh Fields or Whole Foods near me I am used to having when I lived in DC.

    I wish my local grocers carried better products. I’d pay for them.

    I want better food. Fresher food. Grown locally and seasonally if possible, which shouldn’t be that much of a problem since I live in Southern Illinois and we kind of grow a lot of shit here (5,000 acre corn field in front of my house).

    When I buy a lemon or avocado (two things I buy a lot of) I don’t say to myself that is expensive. I think to myself, wow that is kind of cheap and I wonder where it came from. Who picked it.

    Ten cents more per pound. Fine if the money goes to the workers.

    These are things I eat. I don’t want chemicals on them. I don’t want basically slave labor picking them for me. I don’t think I am asking too much here am I?

  23. 23.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:07 pm

    @? Martin: I have to confess that it bothers me no end that I missed being able to real time comment on your disgusting strawman episode in the earlier Zandar thread.
    That was some crazy ass shit, dog. I can hardly believe you kept trying it on.

  24. 24.

    ? Martin

    June 12, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    @Cervantes: Sorta. She’s an odd republican – pro choice, pro gay marriage, not a climate denier, etc. Mostly she hates Democrats from the 70s rather than love republicans (there’s a lot of those in her age range).

    She’s nervous about this cycle. She’ll back JEB! but she thinks most of the others are straight-up lunatics. She won’t abide by the religious extremists.

    The funny thing is that she really only disagrees with Sanders on the economy (granted that’s most of his thing) and I suspect she actually kind of trusts him overall as a person. She doesn’t trust Clinton.

  25. 25.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    I especially loved the Apple selling goods to China example.

  26. 26.

    ? Martin

    June 12, 2015 at 9:09 pm

    @Corner Stone: Yeah, well, I guess the new Democratic position is to keep shoving money at China.

  27. 27.

    Betty Cracker

    June 12, 2015 at 9:09 pm

    Does anyone know how to make an iPad 2 stop displaying this site in the shitty mobile version, aside from scrolling to the bottom and manually switching it to desktop every single time? Please and thank you!

  28. 28.

    Betty Cracker

    June 12, 2015 at 9:11 pm

    @? Martin: She doesn’t think Jeb’s macabre interference in the Schiavo case was evidence of religious lunacy?

  29. 29.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:12 pm

    @? Martin:

    Yeah, well, I guess the new Democratic position is to keep shoving money at China.

    Please to explain how a trade deal that doesn’t lower already low tariffs in the Asian realm, and doesn’t include China as a signatory keeps China from being the 800 pound gorilla in the sphere of influence.

  30. 30.

    Baud

    June 12, 2015 at 9:13 pm

    @? Martin:

    Mostly she hates Democrats from the 70s rather than love republicans (there’s a lot of those in her age range).

    There does seem to be a lot. Were we really that bad the bad that we deserve a 40+ year grudge?

  31. 31.

    ? Martin

    June 12, 2015 at 9:14 pm

    @Corner Stone: Then you misunderstood. It wasn’t a defense of Apple – it was an illustration that there is a lot more consumer power in China than people seem to realize. We don’t compete with China on jobs in the same way that we don’t compete with undocumented immigrants on jobs. They’re completely different jobs. Arguing that we should have Chinese manufacturing jobs in the US is precisely the same argument that the GOP keeps leveling that immigrants are taking our highly desirable jobs picking radishes.

  32. 32.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:14 pm

    We already trade with all these partner countries and we already trade with China. We have low tariffs in place. Japan isn’t giving up anything on the automotive market aspect. Please fucking tell me how people in Vietnam are going to suddenly start buying our goods exported from the US when we have the strongest dollar we’ve had for some time and China has no effective punishment for currency manipulation.

  33. 33.

    ? Martin

    June 12, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    @Betty Cracker: She’s forgotten about that. I’m waiting for the right time to bring it back up. And let’s face it, JEB! is being graded on a pretty steep curve on this one.

  34. 34.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:16 pm

    @? Martin:

    Arguing that we should have Chinese manufacturing jobs in the US is precisely the same argument that the GOP keeps leveling that immigrants are taking our highly desirable jobs picking radishes.

    Good sweet fucking Christ. Really? No one is arguing that. We can’t possibly compete on that level because even as bad as WalMart is in the US they haven’t yet had to put netting around the roof to keep people from jumping off.

  35. 35.

    Pogonip

    June 12, 2015 at 9:18 pm

    @Anne Laurie: I’ll be there, thanks!

  36. 36.

    Tommy

    June 12, 2015 at 9:19 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Nope not that I am aware of. Years ago I mentioned here I do WordPress sites for a living and one of the front pagers reached out to me with a question or two. Sent me screen caps of the plugins used, which are third-party apps that add additional functionality to WordPress.

    The site at the time and I assume still, is running a plugin called WPTouch. A mobile app. The best of the best as these apps go for mobile. It is either on or off and it self-detects a phone, tablet, or a desktop/laptop.

    So nothing I am aware you can do about it other then scroll to the bottom and change the layout almost manually.

  37. 37.

    Steeplejack

    June 12, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    I thought we covered this once before. I’ve got my Android phone set to always show the desktop version. Seems like it was something like: Set your iPad to use the desktop site. Flush the cache in your browser. Close and restart browser. Profit!

    Damn it, off to the Google.

  38. 38.

    Baud

    June 12, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    FWIW, Booman is all 11-D chess on the TPP vote today.

  39. 39.

    Betty Cracker

    June 12, 2015 at 9:28 pm

    @Steeplejack: I did ask it once before, but nothing suggested worked. Being newly irritated by the necessity of scrolling down and switching to desktop for the 500th time, I thought I’d ask again. I also have to retype my name and email every time. Very annoying. And it wasn’t always like this — this didn’t use to be the case, on this very same device. Anyway, whatever advice you can offer is MUCH appreciated. I’ll try the above, though I’m pretty sure it didn’t work last time. Thanks!

  40. 40.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 12, 2015 at 9:31 pm

    @Steeplejack: I was thinkin’ on Android, just go into ‘manage applications’ and flush cache and data. For the fruity ‘puters, I got nothing. No fruit in my house.

  41. 41.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:33 pm

    @efgoldman: Why, these my good man:
    Brunei, Chile, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, Singapore, and Vietnam.

  42. 42.

    ? Martin

    June 12, 2015 at 9:37 pm

    @Corner Stone: China can’t be a signatory – that’s the point. China is powerful enough to veto everything, which they do in the WTO. This is a trade deal with everyone who is dependent on China for trade in order to marginalize China – to make trade among the ‘everyone but China’ audience stronger. We can’t get anything out of China under the current structure – or has nobody noticed that? Status quo is not good for the US. China will just keep accumulating power. The US can come out ahead on this, but not by closing up. You can’t run and hide from trade, you have to negotiate positions that favor you and fight through it.

    The biggest problem inside the US is the infighting among the states and among Congress on behalf of their states. That’s the real problem – we balkanize our industries. China, South Korea, etc. they concentrate them.

  43. 43.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 12, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    @efgoldman: Republicans have a long history of being bad at math.

  44. 44.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 12, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    @? Martin:

    You can’t run and hide from trade

    Who is making that argument?

  45. 45.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    @? Martin:

    The US can come out ahead on this, but not by closing up. You can’t run and hide from trade, you have to negotiate positions that favor you and fight through it.

    BS, Martin. The US can’t do a GD thing about that specific aspect until we nut up and put in place currency manipulation penalties for China.
    We can’t fair trade with the biggest asshole on the block undercutting us the whole way. This deal does nothing to address that. It doesn’t help Japan or Vietnam position themselves against China’s currency manipulation.

  46. 46.

    Betty Cracker

    June 12, 2015 at 9:44 pm

    @efgoldman: “Weeping Cheetoh” always makes me smile (the derogatory nickname, not His Orangeness himself, I mean). Boehner is so very Cheetoh-like, not only in hue but also his lumpy physiognomy.

  47. 47.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:45 pm

    @efgoldman:

    80-some votes? That’s all he could deliver for something his party supposedly favors?

    This is kind of the whole point. The R’s know this is going to be a fucking killer for the middle class. They really want to pass this under the flag of another D president. When they saw the vote was not going to go in tandem they killed the other part so they could get out from under it.
    They want the D’s to pass this. They know if the midwest and rustbelt see their ass get handed to them again from another free trade deal they will be ass over teakettle against the party who passed it. And that means the president who signs it.
    They don’t do nuance like years of negotiations. They’ll just see who signed it into effect.

  48. 48.

    Baud

    June 12, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    But the TPP did pass, without the TAA.

  49. 49.

    jl

    June 12, 2015 at 9:49 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    ‘ another free trade ‘

    Probably does not make any difference to public perception, but it is not really a ‘free trade’ deal. It is a corporate friendly trade deal, tat restrains trade more than frees it.

    The corporate media and the politicians can entitle it a free trade deal if they want, but that does not make it one.
    People should just call it a ‘corporate trade deal’.

  50. 50.

    Steeplejack

    June 12, 2015 at 9:50 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    No luck so far, but I’ll keep looking. We might need to check with Mnemosyne. She uses an iPad, and I think she had (and solved) this problem.

  51. 51.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 12, 2015 at 9:51 pm

    @efgoldman: Stale?

  52. 52.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:53 pm

    @Baud: Speculation is that votes changed once they knew that both weren’t going to pass. That split effectively forces another reconciliation and series of actions.

  53. 53.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:56 pm

    Martin

    This is an opportunity to set a standard for trade deals that includes worker protections, which Obama has said is in there. Instead of saying ‘no’, you should be demanding those protections be there, because it’s a far better outcome than ‘no’.

    And yet, somehow passing fast track without knowing what worker protections are included is what the sensible pass is.

  54. 54.

    Tenar Darell

    June 12, 2015 at 9:58 pm

    @? Martin: When you bring that one up, you may want to also bring up the Florida “Scarlett Letter” law. Compared to Schiavo, he walked right up to the line, rather than leaping over it. But it was pretty awful.

  55. 55.

    Brachiator

    June 12, 2015 at 9:58 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t think you can do anything to fix this automatically. Also, I think that developers are being “encouraged” to make sure they consistently serve up the mobile site when folks are using phones and tablets.

  56. 56.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 9:59 pm

    Martin

    Everyone opposing the TPP is doing that, because the alternative isn’t a better trade deal but no trade deal, and therefore no worker protections.

    Why would anyone say that no trade deal somehow lowers worker protections? You can’t tell anyone what wprker protections are actually in the deal so how can you say that not passing it leads to your stated outcome?

  57. 57.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 10:01 pm

    Martin
    This whole comment was such shit that it was hard to even bother parsing through.

    I mean that we’re already losing badly to the economic forces at play here, so a trade deal really can’t make that any worse. There’s more upside potential than there is downside risk. That was also true with healthcare. We were negotiating against doing nothing, against legislators that honestly did not care if people died of preventable things, and we are in the same boat here.

    Let me put a question to the people that oppose this:

    What is the consequence to foreign countries if this deal isn’t signed? How do US workers benefit from their current position if the deal isn’t signed? Nobody fucking cares about protecting progressive (or conservative) principles – a lesson the 20 GOP fucksticks running for president have yet to learn. I’m a machinist in Ohio, how does not signing this deal make my life better from where it is now?

  58. 58.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 10:04 pm

    Martin

    Honestly, arguing about Fast Track is arguing that the President’s hand ought to be much weaker and the GOP (and therefore corporate) controlled Senate and the GOP (and therefore corporate) controlled House have stronger hands.

    The 485 representatives from big MNC’s, who represent over 85% of the people touching this deal seem to be laughing at you. Arguing about lobbyists carving out future deals seems a little shallow when the fucking foxes already set up the hen house in the first place.

  59. 59.

    Betty Cracker

    June 12, 2015 at 10:07 pm

    @Steeplejack: Thank you! Don’t go to any trouble. I think I’ve figured out a decent workaround by using the WordPress app to access the site. It pulls it up in desktop view and retains my commenter info. It’s not quite as convenient as the former configuration but less annoying than the scrolling and retyping!

  60. 60.

    Cervantes

    June 12, 2015 at 10:21 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    What happens if you use an iOS browser other than Safari?

    Try Mercury, for example, and see what happens. If it does not work right away the way you want it to, there’s a preference you can set explicitly so that it loads the desktop site instead of the mobile site.

    Good luck. I am off for the week-end.

  61. 61.

    Felonius Monk

    June 12, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    @Corner Stone: BooMan has an interesting thought about this. Actually, two thoughts.

  62. 62.

    Gravenstone

    June 12, 2015 at 10:28 pm

    @efgoldman: He’s more of the Puffy rather than Crunchy variety.

  63. 63.

    Steeplejack

    June 12, 2015 at 10:31 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Cervantes’s comment made me remember that on my phone the browser (Chrome) has a menu option to “request desktop site.” Another trip to the Google revealed this how-to on enabling desktop view in Safari for iPhone and iPad. Hope it works for you.

    I note that whatever it was that I did on my phone was not that, because I just looked and saw that the “request desktop site” option is unchecked for Balloon Juice. Go figure.

    ETA: Let me know if this works, so I can call off the minions researching the other thing.

  64. 64.

    Betty Cracker

    June 12, 2015 at 10:41 pm

    @Cervantes: Haven’t tried that. Thanks!

    @Steeplejack: I will try it and let you know.

  65. 65.

    Steeplejack

    June 12, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    All righty, then. I am borderline obsessive about checking threads until I’m sure they’re dead, just so you know.

    Actually, to keep things simple, I have recalled the minions looking into the other thing, because I’m pretty sure this will work (and I’m pretty sure Mnemosyne knows what the other thing is). So don’t feel any deadline pressure.

  66. 66.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 10:50 pm

    @Felonius Monk: Those are some of the biggest piles of shit I have seen outside of Martin’s garbage time reasoning.

  67. 67.

    Origuy

    June 12, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    Well, there goes the price of popcorn futures:

    Iowa GOP cancels the straw poll

  68. 68.

    Cacti

    June 12, 2015 at 10:55 pm

    From 2009 to 2015, the average Big Mac price in the US went up from $3.57 to $4.64.

    The idea that low paid fast food workers holds prices down is fiction.

    The Economist has actually kept a Big Mac Index for 40 countries since 1986.

  69. 69.

    Germy Shoemangler

    June 12, 2015 at 11:04 pm

    This clip shows how outrageously sexual our friends in the plant kingdom are in spreading their seeds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsIojj4PzAo

  70. 70.

    Germy Shoemangler

    June 12, 2015 at 11:05 pm

    Here’s a technical question:

    We bought a new wireless router. I notice in my list, there is my router and there is also my router “guest” – my router shows the lock icon, but the “guest” version does not.

    Should I worry about my neighbors stealing my wi-fi? Is the guest version unlocked??

  71. 71.

    Belafon

    June 12, 2015 at 11:09 pm

    So, for everyone who as talked about Obama aligning with Republicans, just know that if you oppose the TPP, you are aligned with Bryan Fischer.

  72. 72.

    Brachiator

    June 12, 2015 at 11:10 pm

    @Cacti: Is this price information adjusted for inflation?

    You’re right, low wages don’t hold prices down. But most fast food places have long had dollar menu items to use as a customer lure. Prices here are directly related to competitive pressure. Restaurants will also try substituting cheaper ingredients, adjusting portion size and automating more processes. This last option usually involves layoffs.

  73. 73.

    Origuy

    June 12, 2015 at 11:13 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler: I just got a new router, too. The guest account can be disabled, and it may be by default. It’s so that you can let your guest use the WiFi without giving them the key to your main account. If you go through the router configuration setup, you should be able to see if it’s disabled. Try pointing your browser to http://192.168.1.1
    if you haven’t configured it any other way.

  74. 74.

    Roy G.

    June 12, 2015 at 11:19 pm

    Regarding the TPP, I’m so glad someone is looking out for American workers… I’m talking of course about the poor, unwashed and huddled masses of media copyright holders, pharmaceutical companies, and genetic bioengineers and their IP lawyers. You know, the real salt of the earth!

  75. 75.

    Steeplejack

    June 12, 2015 at 11:28 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    Based on your scanty information presented, here is a not so scanty answer:

    The “guest” version of your router that does not show the lock icon is not secure, and (I think) your neighbors can steal wi-fi from you, because they don’t need a password to log in.

    Think of your situation as analogous to a local store—a Starbucks, say. When you go in there and look on your phone, you might see a “Starbucks” wi-fi network and a “StarbucksGuest” network. The Starbucks one is “locked”/secure and is used by the store and its employees for business. You need a password to log in. The StarbucksGuest one is not “locked,” and all you have to do is tell your phone to connect to it to do so.

    . . . Heh, I just confirmed this with my own phone. I looked for available wi-fi networks around my apartment and found (among others) GoldPanda (locked) and GoldPanda-guest (unlocked). I selected the latter and got connected right away, no password needed. Thank you, neighbor!

    My advice would be to delete the guest network if you can’t think of a reason to keep it. Any friends or relatives you have over should be trustworthy enough to rate the password for your locked network, right?

  76. 76.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 12, 2015 at 11:31 pm

    @Steeplejack: I am thinking of naming my wi-fi network “NSA Van 2436/11A.”

  77. 77.

    fuckwit

    June 12, 2015 at 11:33 pm

    I am starting to think that it’s all hopeless. Our privileged stance as a first world country is ending. It’s a race to the bottom…. but that race will allow the bottom to lift itself out of poverty. It’s like a tax, really, on the US poor. who are only rich compared to the real poor in the third world. Unfortunate side effect of this is that the whole world races to the bottom but the 1% get even richer, the whole thing is corrupt. Essentially, instead of taxing the rich 1% to give to the poor, we’re “taxing” (destroying jobs, lowering wages, racing to the bottom) the working poor in the US, in order to create jobs in Bangladesh and Vietnam and Thailand etc.

    Free trade is basically a redistribution of wealth from the US worker to the developing world worker, which one could argue is a progressive goal, except that enormous billions are being skimmed off the top by a very wealthy and corrupt tiny minority who run and control these global corporations.

  78. 78.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 11:34 pm

    @Steeplejack: Nah. I have my 2.4Ghz unlocked for the ex and several devices that can’t attach to the 5Ghz signal.
    I keep the 5Ghz locked down for a few devices that share content.

  79. 79.

    Baud

    June 12, 2015 at 11:34 pm

    @Steeplejack:

    Heh. I found a neighbor’s guest account too.

  80. 80.

    Steeplejack

    June 12, 2015 at 11:34 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Heh, I have a software friend/colleague whose wi-fi network is named “FBI_Mobile_Scan.” It would make me nervous to be at the mercy of the government’s sense of humor, but so far no problems.

  81. 81.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 12, 2015 at 11:34 pm

    @Steeplejack: Any friends or relatives you have over should be trustworthy enough to rate the password for your locked network, right?

    Not on your life.

  82. 82.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 11:37 pm

    @fuckwit:

    It’s a race to the bottom…. but that race will allow the bottom to lift itself out of poverty.

    I understand the rest of your comment but the situation does not hold true.
    It’s not a one up situation. They are going to steal everything. All wealth and relative income will be driven out of the pockets of people who have been scraping by in “first world” economies.

  83. 83.

    fuckwit

    June 12, 2015 at 11:37 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler: It’s probablyl portalled. Try logging into it and it’ll ask you for a password. it’s just a different password from your “main” secure network.

    The idea being that you can rate-limit it so your guests don’t hog all your bandwidth, set your main network to get priority, and can give people yoru “guest” password instead of your main network password. v

    Mostly useful for businesses, I think, like coffee shops where you want customers to have internet access but don’t want them to be able to sniff traffic on your busiess network, or slow down your business computers’ access by downloading youtube videos or whatever.

  84. 84.

    Steeplejack

    June 12, 2015 at 11:37 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    So the ex—or anybody passing by—doesn’t need a password to get on the 2.4GHz network?

  85. 85.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 12, 2015 at 11:38 pm

    @fuckwit: I hope you have an electric oven.

  86. 86.

    fuckwit

    June 12, 2015 at 11:39 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Dunno IPad but on android browsers there’s a “user agent” setting to make it spoof and pretend to be a desktop not a mobile device. it basically lies about what kind of device it is, and websites are fooled by that and serve up the desktop content instead.

  87. 87.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 11:39 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Yeah, I don’t even know what to do with this kind of thinking.

  88. 88.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 11:40 pm

    @Steeplejack: Nope, I don’t have anything attached to it.

  89. 89.

    fuckwit

    June 12, 2015 at 11:44 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Well solar electrical is certainly more sustaniable and better for the environment than natural gas extraction, but the grid here is still based on gas anyway so it doesn’t make any difference. Maybe once the grid is running on sustainable solar/wind then electric ovens will be better for the environment.

  90. 90.

    opiejeanne

    June 12, 2015 at 11:45 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Sorry, why do you hope he has an electric oven? Oh, never mind. I got it.

  91. 91.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 12, 2015 at 11:45 pm

    @fuckwit: Never mind.

  92. 92.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 12, 2015 at 11:47 pm

    @opiejeanne: The comment has so much GBCW about it that I was worried about what might happen if a gas oven was available.

  93. 93.

    Steeplejack

    June 12, 2015 at 11:48 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Okay. I come down on the other side because (a) I don’t want to be exposed to the (admittedly unlikely) situation of some passerby stealing bandwidth from me, as Baud and I just did from our neighbors, and (b) the people I have given my network password to—my brother and a few friends—are extremely unlikely to mount some sinister takeover or theft of data or intellectual property—not to mention being incapable of doing so. Maybe if I regularly had Dr. Doofenshmirtz over for dinner I would think twice before giving him the password.

  94. 94.

    Valdivia

    June 12, 2015 at 11:49 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Slow clap. Ftw.

  95. 95.

    Steeplejack

    June 12, 2015 at 11:50 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    LOL.

  96. 96.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 12, 2015 at 11:50 pm

    @Steeplejack: Why do you care if somebody nearby uses “your” bandwidth?

  97. 97.

    Kay

    June 12, 2015 at 11:51 pm

    @? Martin:

    There was just so much opposition though that I don’t think the “this or nothing” approach is going to work.

    Countries like Vietnam, the AFL-CIO argued, ought to be required to at least allow workers to organize their own unions before the U.S. granted unfettered market access for their products. The U.S. trade representative failed to win over Democrats like Sandy Levin (D.-Mich.), the ranking member on the Ways and Means Committee who has supported trade deals with strong labor provisions in the past, that TPP would be a step forward in that arena.

    It just seems like this whole strategy was put together to garner GOP support. They had to know trade assistance wasn’t enough. We’ve had trade assistance since 1974. It’s just tiny in the scheme of things.

  98. 98.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 11:53 pm

    @Steeplejack: Where I live I’m not worried about sidewalk/chalk warriors. It makes it a lot easier to give certain people access for interim periods without having to manage those interactions. If Comcast wants to ask me about my P2P downloading they are free to do so.
    I don’t have to worry about who has what.

  99. 99.

    opiejeanne

    June 12, 2015 at 11:53 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: thats what i figured after I thought about it for a bit.

  100. 100.

    Eric S.

    June 12, 2015 at 11:54 pm

    @? Martin: “pro choice … not a climate denier”

    Funny I read that and think of myself in the 90s. It was the death penalty that finally typed me over the edge but I (figuratively) sat down and took stock and came to the conclusion that I agreed with the Democrats on mute and more issues and (in my head) switched parties. It wasn’t necessarily easy or as quick as I describe. As a politically aware person changing my identity was difficult. Let me rephrase, changing how I outwardly identified myself to my friends was not so easy.

    I realize this may sound like a humble brag which is not my intention. What you write just brought back those memories and times.

  101. 101.

    Corner Stone

    June 12, 2015 at 11:56 pm

    @Kay:

    the “this or nothing” approach

    That’s what Martin has been trying on this whole time. It hasn’t made sense from the beginning.

  102. 102.

    Steeplejack

    June 12, 2015 at 11:56 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Uh, because it might slow me down. As I said, unlikely scenario, but what if some wi-fi raider parks in front of the house, connects to my network and starts downloading massive amounts of data (kiddie porn, say)?

  103. 103.

    Steeplejack

    June 12, 2015 at 11:58 pm

    Is that TPP thread from earlier today going to be on the final exam? Because I got through only about 50 comments before I gave up.

  104. 104.

    Kay

    June 13, 2015 at 12:02 am

    @? Martin:

    And the overpromising:

    Los Angeles Times Editorial, 4/21/2015: “The fast-track bill won’t force Congress to approve whatever the negotiators hand them — lawmakers can still vote it down — but not having fast-track will pretty much guarantee that there will be nothing to vote on. And that would be a terrible mistake, because it would deny the United States the chance to bring more trading partners up to first-world standards for labor, environmental protection, intellectual property, Internet openness and other important elements of the 21st century economy.”

    That was on the trade representatives website. What trading partners who aren’t already there are “going up to first world status” ? They can’t make these claims when they’re bickering over how much forced labor they’re willing to accept. It just isn’t true.

  105. 105.

    Valdivia

    June 13, 2015 at 12:02 am

    @Steeplejack: Oh I wouldn’t worry about it, I think that with 50 comments you got the Cliff Notes version.

  106. 106.

    Corner Stone

    June 13, 2015 at 12:02 am

    @Steeplejack: It will be if I have any say with the proctors.
    That was classic.

  107. 107.

    Corner Stone

    June 13, 2015 at 12:03 am

    @Valdivia: What would those notes say?

  108. 108.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 13, 2015 at 12:04 am

    @Steeplejack: If you notice somebody you don’t want on your guest network, you can terminate their connection and block them permanently.

    Like CS, I live in a place where this isn’t going to happen. If you live in a place where it could, put a password on the guest network if you’re concerned, and give that one to your house guests. I’d no sooner give keys/certificates/passwords to my network resources to someone else than I would give them my credit cards. The only way to keep a secret is to tell it to nobody.

  109. 109.

    Steeplejack

    June 13, 2015 at 12:04 am

    @Valdivia:

    Whew!

  110. 110.

    opiejeanne

    June 13, 2015 at 12:09 am

    @Eric S.: I get it because that describes us, except it started in 1980. The second I heard Reagan’s platform I was done.

  111. 111.

    Steeplejack

    June 13, 2015 at 12:10 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    [. . .] I live in a place where this isn’t going to happen.

    That statement seems a little inconsistent with your otherwise hard-nosed attitude.

  112. 112.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 13, 2015 at 12:10 am

    @Corner Stone: Three themes: “Why are you against trade. Trade is necessary.” “Why are you against Obama?” “What benefit does this deal provide to us?”

  113. 113.

    ruemara

    June 13, 2015 at 12:14 am

    Speaking of eating, a project that you guys might find interesting. This is an experimental project to create a rhino level sturdy feeding toy for the rhinos at the SF Zoo. It’s rather cool, especially the footage of one of the rhinos playing ‘soccer’. Either way, they could use some help finishing the funding for this thing. I’m hoping they can get to 75% before it closes on the 16th.
    Help a rhino out?

  114. 114.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 13, 2015 at 12:16 am

    @ruemara:

    Help a rhino out?

    That might be the first time that has ever been typed.

  115. 115.

    Corner Stone

    June 13, 2015 at 12:17 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: I understand you have a budding romance with Valdivia. But that synopsis is almost certainly not what she got out of those 50 comments.

  116. 116.

    Valdivia

    June 13, 2015 at 12:20 am

    @Corner Stone: So you’re mind reading me now? How do you know what I gleaned from it? I had one or two comments in that thread and they were about ridiculous theories about why Obama is for TPP and nothing on the substance of the disagreement. Which basically boils down to thinking this is a bad deal and how it affects the worst off in our society no? And those who disagree and think that since the genie is out of the bottle in regards to trade there is something to be gained from engaging in trade negotiations to gain some leverage/advantage?

  117. 117.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 13, 2015 at 12:28 am

    @Corner Stone: That’s what I saw in it. I buy into third theme. You can read my opinion or you can fuck off. Same shit, different day.

  118. 118.

    Corner Stone

    June 13, 2015 at 12:29 am

    @Valdivia: It’s not a mystery, friend. You can get chuffed if you like. Where are you on the Fast Track? And the TPP itself?

  119. 119.

    Corner Stone

    June 13, 2015 at 12:30 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I buy into third theme

    Is that some underground punk band that only sells their work on vinyl?

  120. 120.

    Corner Stone

    June 13, 2015 at 12:31 am

    This is not a mystery. Sorry, peeps.

  121. 121.

    Brachiator

    June 13, 2015 at 12:33 am

    @Steeplejack: Coming in a little late here. Shouldn’t it be possible to secure a guest setting instead of deleting it? And there is no primary or alternate universe in which friends or visitors should be given your main password or other log in information.

  122. 122.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 13, 2015 at 12:33 am

    @Corner Stone: Christ, what an asshole.

  123. 123.

    ruemara

    June 13, 2015 at 12:35 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: Well, rhinos need another kickstarter to get a rhino sturdy keyboard. We’ll stick with the big ball.

  124. 124.

    Corner Stone

    June 13, 2015 at 12:38 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: Ouch. That hurts. But while I’ve got you, I dreamed last night about the word Manciote. I thought it meant something to do with men’s haberdashery. But when I googled it this morning it seems like maybe it’s Romanian? I was hoping maybe you knew what it meant.

  125. 125.

    Valdivia

    June 13, 2015 at 12:38 am

    @Corner Stone: Did you not read my comments in the thread? Did I say I was for it? I have no idea why you are making this a confrontation, or what seems to be some kind of test of my democratic bona fides. And on that note. I am out.

  126. 126.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 13, 2015 at 12:42 am

    @Corner Stone: No clue.

  127. 127.

    Corner Stone

    June 13, 2015 at 12:46 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:Totes bummed. Now what am I supposed to do?

  128. 128.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 13, 2015 at 12:47 am

    @Corner Stone: Heh. OTOH, if you have read the trade agreement threads, you should know that you and I basically agree on this issue. So pick your fights with an opponent.

  129. 129.

    opiejeanne

    June 13, 2015 at 12:48 am

    @Brachiator: Mine requires a password. I haven’t set one up yet because it’s a new thing here.

  130. 130.

    Corner Stone

    June 13, 2015 at 12:52 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m not picking any fights outside of Martin, who should be completely called out any time he posts on this.
    I think we have a fundamental issue here. I am referring to the Zandar thread, and I think Valdivia may be referring to the BCrack thread right after that continued the TPP theme to some degree.

  131. 131.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 13, 2015 at 12:54 am

    @Corner Stone: Aha, you may be right. And I may have been referencing the same thread. Oh, yeah, and fuck you for possibly being right.

  132. 132.

    Steeplejack

    June 13, 2015 at 1:00 am

    @Brachiator:

    Yes, you can secure a guest network instead of deleting it. I just don’t see the need to have it. Maybe I did not make myself clear above. All I am giving visitors with the password to my wi-fi network is pass-through access to the Internet. They can’t share or “discover” my computers or log onto them, and they’re not getting the “main password or other log in information” to my computers, if that’s what you inferred.

    ETA: So maybe my main network is a “guest” network, in the sense you and others are using.

  133. 133.

    Corner Stone

    June 13, 2015 at 1:03 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: It’s cute you’re going all out for your girl and all.
    Testosterone!

  134. 134.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 13, 2015 at 1:04 am

    @Corner Stone: Quoi?

  135. 135.

    Aleta

    June 13, 2015 at 1:07 am

    And what does it say that you can buy a can of tuna guaranteed to be dolphin-safe

    It says that it might not be tuna in the can.

  136. 136.

    Tommy

    June 13, 2015 at 1:10 am

    @Steeplejack: I have a print out I give to people that are in my house and want access to my wireless network. It is a secure network. I work with tech for a living and know I could lock it down a lot more, but what I have works for me.

  137. 137.

    Steeplejack

    June 13, 2015 at 1:22 am

    @Tommy:

    [. . .] what I have works for me.

    Same here. I feel like I am missing something because of the vehemence of some people’s reactions. And we sort of got away from what I think is the bigger risk, having an unlocked guest network. The scenario I gave, of a wi-fi pirate parking on the street and getting on your network, is very unlikely, but since then I have thought of a more likely one: the teenage wannabe hacker next door who sees that you have an open guest network and decides to do his wannabe hacker experimenting from there instead of from his house’s network.

  138. 138.

    mclaren

    June 13, 2015 at 1:40 am

    Jeebus, people, don’t you realize a savage effort to enforce class distinctions when you see it?
    Grossly underpaying fast food workers in 2015 is the equivalent of forcing black people to wear spiked iron slave collars in 1815, or punishing plebians for wearing the red robe reserved for the equestrian order in Rome in 100 A.D.
    It’s all the same deal. Crush the people on the bottom and make goddamn sure everyone knows, as an object lesson of who has the fucking power in the society.

  139. 139.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 13, 2015 at 1:44 am

    @mclaren: Thank you for sharing.

  140. 140.

    mclaren

    June 13, 2015 at 1:49 am

    @Corner Stone:

    Is that some underground punk band that only sells their work on vinyl?

    Close. It’s Clintonian triangulation, which is making a big comeback courtesy of Hillary.

  141. 141.

    Tommy

    June 13, 2015 at 1:51 am

    @Steeplejack: The kid next to me likes to think I might not know what he is doing. I know exactly. l let it go. But before I locked down my network I know what he was doing. Don’t think he would like me to tell his parents.

  142. 142.

    Steeplejack

    June 13, 2015 at 1:53 am

    @Tommy:

    Thank you! I rest my case.

  143. 143.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 13, 2015 at 1:54 am

    @mclaren: Cornerstone’s comment was actually funny. Yours? You miss so many points.

  144. 144.

    Tommy

    June 13, 2015 at 1:57 am

    @Steeplejack: I bought a VPN service for about $79.95 for three years. Through a third party I now connect to the Internet via said service. Easy thing. About as secure as it gets.

  145. 145.

    srv

    June 13, 2015 at 2:05 am

    @Tommy: The VPN host is a NSA or GCHQ front. They know exactly what you’re doing, but let it go.

    For now.

  146. 146.

    Elizabelle

    June 13, 2015 at 2:07 am

    JCole put up a fresh thread.

    No pet pics.

  147. 147.

    Betty Cracker

    June 13, 2015 at 9:13 pm

    @Steeplejack: Okay, just in case you check back — the fix outlined above did remedy the mobile version issue. Thank you!

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