.
Today’s entry (I owe someone a hat tip), via TPM:
A judge on Friday granted the St. Louis Zoo a restraining order against a gun rights activist planning a march at the zoo on Saturday, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
Jeffry Smith, who organized an open carry march in downtown St. Louis last year, said he planned on carrying firearms into the zoo on Saturday in order to protest the zoo’s policy banning weapons. He invited others to join him on the gun rights demonstration and created a Facebook event for the protest.
Missouri state law prohibits firearms from amusement parks, but Smith said that the zoo may not fit into that category because it’s taxpayer-funded and public, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
“That signage, unless it’s backed up by case law or statutory law, is nothing more than the zoo’s attempt to reinforce their biases and to deceive people into not exercising their rights,” he told the Post-Dispatch. “This is not about protecting oneself from the wildebeests in the zoo. This is about the zoo deceiving people into thinking they don’t have that choice.”….
Wise man Roy Edroso, at Alicublog, on “Winning Hearts & Minds By Pointing Guns at Them“:
The Christian Science Monitor explores the “etiquette” of America’s open-carry-mania. Some gun enthusiasts believe, or at least pretend to believe, that if they act like the loaded weapon they’re twirling at Arby’s is no big deal, ordinary citizens will get accustomed to living in a dystopian novel instead of modern civilization and we’ll soon be one be one happy, bloody shoot-’em-up society. CSM even hears from Ole Perfesser Glenn Reynolds, who says, “This is what lefties have done for decades, and it works” — a cryptic statement, perhaps meaning that since liberals created feminism by letting their women go around without bras, it stands to reason that a bunch of crackers playing “Guess Whether I’m Going To Kill You And Everyone Else Here” at the Chuck E. Cheese will usher in the Groovy Second Amendment Revolution…
My standard defense to Second-Amendment absolutists: I, personally, don’t feel the need to own a gun, any more than I need to own a chainsaw. Carrying it around would probably help me get a seat on the bus, but that’s a ridiculous misuse of a potentially dangerous tool. And besides, if I walked around carrying, I’d be a lot more tempted to waste time arguing with the unpersuadable… right until I blew the first one or six or eight away.
Elizabelle
Hunting for the link; there’s some philosophy prof who suggests that those who feel afraid of open carrying nuts in their midst just up and leave the restaurant, etc. without paying.
That happens enough, there will be repercussions. Remember, these gun nuts got themselves asked to no longer open carry in Starbucks, because they could not restrain their public displays.
I hope that we, as a society, push back hard against these gun rights jerks.
Why does anyone need to carry a weapon into a public zoo? Or a restaurant? Or a classroom? Or a movie theatre?
Suzanne
@Elizabelle:
Because they are sad about their micropeens.
joel hanes
That Lukovich cartoon is brutal, a kick aimed at the ‘nads of fetishists.
NotMax
Open Thread?
12:01 a.m. (Eastern) Sunday on TCM – The Mind of Mr. Soames. Intriguing if uneven step-child born of the Frankenstein plot. The brilliant gem is a young Terence Stamp, never missing a step nor a beat in the demanding lead role.
For animation fans, at 8:00 p.m. (Eastern) Sunday, the Fleischer Studios Mr. Bug Goes to Town airs.
Elizabelle
From the blog PQED (Philosophical Questions Every Day). I think the author is U N Dakota prof Jack Russell (woof) Weinstein:
How should people respond to open-carry gun rights activists?
I think Starbucks saw the writing (blood spatter) on the wall and chose non-weapons carrying customers when the gun nuts pushed too hard.
Take that episode to even more venues.
Tommy
@joel hanes: The largest City Park in the nation is Forest Park in St. Louis. Yes that is true. I am so happy my city said FUCK you to gun nuts. If you came to see me and I’d take you there to see the Science Center, Natural History Musem, Art Museum, outdoor amphitheater, golf course, hiking trails, so many things.
Oh and they are all free to visit. Our Zoo is pretty cool. Again free to visit. So happy we fought against the stupid. Nobody needs a gun to go to our zoo.
NotMax
@Tommy
#75 in size by acreage, per here.
Brachiator
@Elizabelle: This professor is either a fool or a practical joker. You leave the restaurant without paying. The restaurant owner shouts “Stop, thief!” The gun nut rushes out and shoots you.
Also, there is no legal way for a store owner to force someone else to pay for the food that you have consumed or items in your shopping cart.
Tommy
@NotMax: Hard to argue with numbers I guess. I don’t think the analysis you posted is accurate, but what do I know. A huge park, in the center of the city, none the less. I think larger than most like in NYC. We got a big park, thanks to the 1904 Worlds Fair, and I like it. St. Louis used to be the shit. Not so much now.
Elizabelle
@Brachiator: I disagree. I see it as civil disobedience.
Restaurant employees, managers, and owners have ended up dead in the walk-in refrigerator or dining room during robberies. I don’t think most of them are cool with guns walking into the place at all (unless they’re on cops or on people known to them).
Do you think armed response to customers fleeing the premises — by the gun fetishist — is appropriate?
FWIW, JR Weinstein got lots of comments like yours on his blogpost. Check it out.
Elizabelle
Prof Weinstein’s got a follow up post up too, and links to earlier ones on gun rights (and whether Hitler took people’s guns, etc). He addresses the dine and dash potential, and other points.
Tommy
Oh try this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4IrYjprcbY
Los Lobos. I was at the Kennedy Center once. I wanted to see Dr.John play. Los Lobos was playing in the darn parking lot. I sat my beer down on their amp. They just kept playing. Los Lobos!
Oh and Dr, John rocked the shit out of the place. Did this thing with Cab Mo that I will never forget.
opiejeanne
@Tommy: You set your beer down on their amp? This is incredibly rude; you NEVER set down any liquid on or near an instrument or a piece of electrical equipment attached to an instrument. The latter because ELECTRICITY! and liquid don’t mix so well.
Tommy
@opiejeanne: Totally rude on like many, many levels. Why when they were kind of “cool” with it I liked them a lot more.
Marilynd..so
@Tommy: Don’t know if you’ve had a few, and didn’t quite catch the “apples/oranges” thingie…..NOTMAX cited NATIONAL Parks vs. your City Parks…..you’re welcome, and since I’m probably west of you, and on my 2nd wine…not dissing the drinking, but you are usually quicker than that!!!
Eric
@Marilynd..so: Huh? Having lived in both cities, I can say for certain that #19, 21 and 62 are certainly not National Parks.
Marilynd..so
@Eric: Well, it was just a quick scan on my part……you have a point. I just noticed the major first parks listed were all National Parks…..I’ll put my wine down now and toddle off to bed….
Tommy
@Marilynd..so: I’ve had a few adult drinks. But don’t think life is such I can’t reason with it. I was wrong on the size of the City Park. I love learning I do not know this or that, Love it. Learning! Hurts me to think in your view I am not accepting. That I might not listen. Hurts me a lot and I will try to be better.
Amir Khalid
I wonder if any of the front-pagers is planning to post about Rachel Dolezal? I was intrigued by this look at the whole strange matter by Slate’s Jamelle Bouie.
Marilynd..so
@Tommy: OMG!!! I’m so sorry you took it that way!! I was just joking around…..and I got called on it myself. I’m just a sweet waaay too close to my big 70, recalled back into “mommy duties” for a silly seven year old, who I love dearly, much like you enjoy your niece!! Been lurking around this joint since about 6 months before Tunch’s heartbreaking death. Spent the eve of my 68th on a desktop that had Vista…need I say more… with only the tip of his ears showing under an RIP headline, and the whole time hoping it was a joke…..you are a really great guy, and I’m very sorry that I’ve caused you to pain…..hugs
wasabi gasp
officials from Burntwood complained to Guinness, claiming that Mill Ends was not large enough to be a park, and that Prince’s Park, smallest in the UK, should hold the world record as it “has a fence around it” among other features. In response, volunteers erected a fence around and stationed an “armed guard” in the park. [wiki]
Mill Ends Park
Tommy
@Marilynd..so: No worries. You didn’t cause me any pain. Not in the least. Hugs your way. I am told I am a good hugger.
My niece and I could talk about music for hours. She is just a little rock star. I told her about the Beatles the other day. Told her my favorite song was Here Comes The Sun and we danced and danced to it. My brother and his wife were happy! Letting a little lady know about the Beatles isn’t a bad thing …….
Anne Laurie
@Amir Khalid: Cole went there Thursday evening. I did appreciate Jamelle Bouie’s take (his Slate column is one of the tabs I check every day) but I prefer to give stories like this a few days to expand, because the first tabloid-ly takes tend to be either wrong or out-of-context. (In the Donzeal case, my private guess would be some form of mental illness, quite possibly in conjunction with claims of abuse by her biological parents.) It’s not as though anyone reading the internet wouldn’t have heard about her already, and I don’t think Balloon Juice needs the bandwagon #hottake clicks before professional media outlets have a chance to investigate beyond the immediate Gotcha Instant…
Xenos
I am not a gun advocate myself, and frown on the violent fantasies of those who are.
But it takes very little imagination to see that anyone with a simple, reliable revolver could walk up to four or more of these creeps with their semiautomatic rifles, and could shoot them at short range a lot faster than they could respond. Unless there is some sort of shootout with some distance between the parties, what sort of tactical advantage do these semi-automatics provide?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Xenos:
None.
Tommy
@Xenos: I am no gun expert. Not even close. But the friends and family members that own guns, a revolver is the surest way to fire a gun if you need to be sure said gun fires. My father would say if you can’t drop somebody with a bullet or two and need a clip of 20+ bullets you are doing something wrong.
PurpleGirl
@Anne Laurie: Barbara O’Brien (The Mahablog) has a post up on ‘Rachel Dolezal, Caitlyn Jenner and ID”. Since it only went up recently there are only 2 comments there so far.
raven
@Tommy: magazine
Tommy
@raven: LOL. I recall as a kid my dad bought me play guns. I pointed it at him once and he ripped it out of my hands. Said you don’t point a gun at anybody if you don’t intend to use it. Kill somebody. Just another reason why my parents rock. I learned you don’t point a gun at people. Kind of a basic thing.
raven
@Tommy: I’d say it’s pretty basic. In the early 70’s I was at a big Halloween party and there was a woman there carrying a plastic M-16. She was obviously doing acid and she kept sticking it in my face. I told her to stop but, after about 5 times, I smacked it and it hit her and everyone got pissed off at ME. Fucking hippies.
Tommy
@raven: Even a fake gun isn’t a joke.
Elmo
How could you possibly think you don’t need a chainsaw? EVERYBODY needs a chainsaw!
ThresherK
@Tommy: “I pointed (a play gun) at him once and he ripped it out of my hands. Said you don’t point a gun at anybody if you don’t intend to use it.”
My brother and I are old enough to have been unabashedly given those plastic rat-a-tat M16s as kids. During the Vietnam War! (I was so young I didn’t know it at the time.)
And I’m familiar with the firearms safety sequence of “Don’t pull your jacket back to display unless you’re gonna draw. Don’t draw unless you’re gonna point. Don’t point unless you’re gonna shoot. Don’t shoot unless you aim to kill.”
So, are you that much younger than me, or were you raised in a hunting household (like Hank Hill, or anyone in Lake Wobegone) while I was just a subdivision suburbanite dweeb? Or were you not playing play guns with your Dad at that point?
I’m tangenting a bit. When do playing guns stop being play?
PS My playgun experience was basically fake military. I don’t remember hardly any “Cowboys and Indians” or recreating “Dog Day Afternoon” out by the chokecherry trees.
evodevo
@Elmo: Two thumbs up !
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Or the cops could shoot them as if they were black people.
Matt McIrvin
@Tommy: When I was a kid, the kids next door basically never played anything but “war”. It was this endless conflict where they were fighting off some combination of the Redcoats, the Union Army (they were quite definitely the Confederates) and the Germans, and they pointed their plastic guns (which were more realistic than the ones you can get for kids today: no orange caps) in all directions.
I was always creeped out when they pointed them at me, and this was taken as a personal oddity on my part. “It’s not gonna hurt you! It’s just a toy!” I couldn’t explain why it disturbed me.
Fred
I support your right to carry a chain saw every where you go. I, myself pack my Stihl saw proudly when I take my wife out to eat or when I visit the barber shop. I enjoy the admiring looks I get from so many people. They all know that I’m a manly man who knows a thing or two about chain saws, yes sir.
jharp
I am thinking of buying a chain saw. I definitely need one but they scare the hell out of me.
And I’ve got to get rid of my guns. Used to live in the country and shoot stuff but that was nearly 20 years ago. They have sat unused since.
Anyone know of a chain saw for guns exchange program?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Xenos: Yeah, no tactical advantage.
It’s about display – like peacock feathers. Or a 700 HP Chevy Vega. Or $20k watches.
But in the case of firearms, there’s a not so hidden threat present – “Respect me or maybe, probably not, but maybe, I’ll kill you.”
Gun rights fetishists seem to be very insular. They exist in a feedback loop of self-righteousness, fear of the other, and susceptibility to manufactured conspiracies. Teabagger politicians feed that fear and self-righteousness because they know agitated voters turn up to vote. And they don’t think that the increase in shootings is any big deal for them and theirs, and they can always argue that if there are bad people doing the shooting, well then more LawAndOrder ™ is needed so VoteForeMe ™ .
I wonder if these gun fetishists realize how much they seem to have in common with people like this guy…. :-/
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Tokyokie
The common-law crime of assault is the threat of violence, overt or implied, against another. If the ammosexuals are now claiming that the whole point of open carry is intimidation, then they have given up the game. They believe that the 2nd Amendment confers upon them the legal right to commit assault against all those they encounter in public life. This is no more true than contending that the 1st Amendment confers upon publishers the right to libel anybody they please.
Open carry is assault. Period. No exceptions. It is a crime, not a right.
maurinsky
If I see someone in a restaurant or store with a gun, I’d probably leave right away anyway because how do I know whether they are displaying their substitute penis or really out to get someone?
Shakezula
My answer to 2d Am absolutists is there are no absolute rights.
@Tommy: The Kennedy Center in D.C.? The parking is in a garage.
RaflW
@Elmo:
+1
And I bet you do get your own seat on the bus when you open-carry!
@jharp:
I used an ancient Husky saw once that had no knuckle guard or brake. THAT scared the crap out of me.
eyelessgame
There are, near as I can tell, three reasons to own a gun. Not putting any moral judgment on it, but I think these cover it.
1. You intend to shoot something. Targets, ducks, wolves, immigrants, your wife’s lover, whatever. Some of those are socially acceptable, others – for obvious reasons – not so much.
2. You intend to communicate your ability to exert lethal force. If you’re not also a dick, you communicate – typically through your wardrobe – who should consider themselves the recipient of your threat. For example, you’re dressed as a soldier: the recipients are those who threaten your country or enjoy that you’re ready to fight for it. Or you’re dressed as a security guard: the recipients are those who would threaten the property you appear hired to protect. Or you’re dressed as a police officer: the recipients are those who contemplate committing a crime, or are black. Dicks, though, communicate deadly force to everybody. But in their imagination, they’re only intending to communicate it to people they don’t like – and they lack the imagination to understand that nobody knows which people that includes, because the rest of us don’t know if you had a fight with your girlfriend this morning.
3. You want to feel safe. Like locking your doors and windows, buying the extended warranty, owning a dog, masturbating, staying with an abuser, taking antidepressants, not wearing a seat belt so in an accident you can be thrown clear – people do whatever makes them feel safe, regardless of whether in reality it makes them safer or not. You want to feel better – safe, happy, fulfilled – and a gun makes you feel that way. The statistics don’t matter, unless you believe them – you’d just feel unsafe if you didn’t have it.
I bring this up because open-carry assholes are in category 2, but I think most gun owners are category 3.
LWA (Liberal With Attitude)
I’ve said before, I think its time to aim at the head, and start a national conversation about overturning the 2nd Amendment.
No, not that it will go anywhere soon, but just talking about it in these terms is good. It forces people to imagine the unpossible, and question something that everyone takes for granted.
What if guns could be registered and restricted as a privilege rather than a right?
As the numbers of hunters falls, and target shooters decline, the nature and character of gun owners is changing- for most of us, the image of a gun owner is changing from friendly Uncle Bill who would go deer hunting, its changing to a bunch of deranged maniacs.
So we take advantage of that, and begin questioning whether the 2nd Amendment even makes sense in the 21st century.
different-church-lady
C’mon, Anne, you live in Boston; you know perfectly well here it wouldn’t help a bit.
Elizabelle
@Tokyokie: It is intimidation. It’s trying to normalize threatening and antisocial behavior. It has to stop.
@LWA (Liberal With Attitude):
That is happening. More important than ever to get a sane Supreme Court that will legislate in favor of community safety. 90% of Americans favor background checks, and probably a lot of other common sense gun safety measures. It is our right to be respected and heard.
different-church-lady
@eyelessgame:
OK, that ‘if’ is where I lost you…
different-church-lady
@LWA (Liberal With Attitude):
That, obviously, is happening because a bunch of deranged maniacs are now in charge of the image.
different-church-lady
@Tommy:
Sure, but what if your intent is to drop 20 people at a movie theater? That’s when a semi becomes important! Why can’t you libtards understand this?
different-church-lady
@PurpleGirl:
Good — that means only two people said something stupid about it so far.
different-church-lady
@Elmo: A sawed society is a polite society.
different-church-lady
@ThresherK:
When you’re a 12 year old black kid in Cleveland.
Too soon?
Citizen_X
@Xenos:
Fixed.
Full metal Wingnut
@Elizabelle: What if the gun toters decide to go vigilante when people try to leave?
Citizen_X
@LWA (Liberal With Attitude): I agree: it should be put out there as a marker. The 2nd Amendment reflects an 18th Century concept of national defense that was abandoned in the 19th Century.
If you want to update the concept, fine, let’s have Swiss-style universal male milita membership, and–here’s the key part–eliminate the standing Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. (I’d argue for keeping a ~600-warhead-or-so nuclear deterrent force, just in case.)
But I don’t see anyone advocating that.
MaryRC
@Anne Laurie: Yes, there is something sad and troubling about this story. The more I read about her, the less I think it’s a straightforward case of fraud.
fuckwit
@Tokyokie: That’s a very strong assertion, and I hope you’re right, but I can’t imagine you are. Do you have any case law or citations or links for that assertion?
fuckwit
@Elizabelle: How about a sane congress? They do the legislating anyway. There are many gun safety laws which can and should be passed, but the Rethugs won’t pass them.
Elizabelle
@fuckwit: True re Congress. They open the floodgates to guns in society, but protect themselves.
I wonder what the Founding Fathers would think about being patted down by men with guns and xrayed and made to wait in security lines in order to go see your Congresscritter.
Gail Collins wrote about open carry today, and she was not laughing. Guns in Your Face.
And now Texas has passed legislation to allow guns on college campuses. Texas, home to the late Charles Whitman and his 1966 massacre of 13 people from the clock tower at UT Austin. He shot 43 individuals; killed his wife and mother before climbing the tower.
Did they learn nothing from Virginia Tech or other college shootings with fewer victims?
We need to stop this lunacy.
Scamp Dog
So I went over to the Ol’ Professors blog to scan the comments…and there were only 14 of them. I thought he was supposed to be some major commenter in the right-wing blogosphere, with a wide influence.
I took a moment to scan the number of comments for the current front page posts, and the only ones that small were soccer threads. Which are not this blog’s main focus, and since they seem to come up a couple of times a day, all the comments that people want to make are spread throughout the the threads. Since BJ has a much bigger fan base, why aren’t media people quoting us? Come on, lame-stream media!
Enhanced Voting Techniques
My mind keeps on going back to the Gunnery Sergeant in The Pacific series throwing spent casing at a Lieutenant because the Lieutenant wasn’t pointing his pistol down range. Truly, who are these clueless idiots and why are they allowed to have guns in thier hands?
joel hanes
@Tommy:
Forest Park in St. Louis
Been there a couple times — first as a wee lad, then again in my early 50’s when my family gathered from our scattered homes to pass Thanksgiving in St. Louis.
Fitz’s Root Beer rooolz !
Nutella
@Amir Khalid:
There’s another fascinating story of a white person passing as black in Clarence King. He went back and forth between his white professional life and his black family life and neither side knew about the other.
low-tech cyclist
@Elizabelle:
The problem with this is that it only deals with private spaces, and with those only one at a time.
Not to mention, if a gun nut wants to shoot up a Taco Bell, he doesn’t have go to inside to do it. Nor is anyone going to stop him if he tries to enter first.
We need to deal with guns in public spaces, and once we do that, private spaces will take care of themselves.
low-tech cyclist
Thank goodness I live in a sane state like Maryland. But sometimes I think what life would be like if I lived in an open-carry, stand-your-ground state.
If some random person walked down my street carrying a gun while my son was playing in the yard, I would feel great fear for the safety of my kid. Having no duty to retreat by calling my kid inside, I’d be entitled to stand my ground by shooting the person who was causing me to fear for my son’s safety. Preferably before he even knew I existed.
Colliding gun rights. Ain’t America great?
FortGeek
@Xenos:
Intimidation.
andy
@Elizabelle: Yep. If these nitwits were really being oppressed they would be face down on the ground with a cops’s knee pinning them down while their wrists are getting cuffed.
As it is now, all the hoo-raw coming out of these morons is a lot of self-pitying butthurt on account of the smart people talking all mean about their tactical barbie dolls.
2liberal
the second amendment is all about guaranteeing a well regulated militia. what we have today isn’t it.