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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

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Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

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So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

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The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

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Nikki Haley, who can’t acknowledge ‘slavery’, is a pathetic shill.

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Let me file that under fuck it.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

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You are here: Home / Gun Issues / Gun nuts / Late Night Open Thread: “Break Your Silence… Speak Up!”

Late Night Open Thread: “Break Your Silence… Speak Up!”

by Anne Laurie|  June 19, 20151:08 am| 91 Comments

This post is in: Gun nuts, Open Threads, Post-racial America

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Strong words from a wise man.

Ta-Nehisi Coates, at the Atlantic, has a modest proposal:

Last night, Dylann Roof walked into a Charleston church, sat for an hour, and then killed nine people. Roof’s crime cannot be divorced from the ideology of white supremacy which long animated his state nor from its potent symbol—the Confederate flag. Visitors to Charleston have long been treated to South Carolina’s attempt to clean its history and depict its secession as something other than a war to guarantee the enslavement of the majority of its residents. This notion is belied by any serious interrogation of the Civil War and the primary documents of its instigators. Yet the Confederate battle flag—the flag of Dylann Roof—still flies on the Capitol grounds in Columbia…

Take down the flag. Take it down now….

The state notoriously “too small for a republic, too large for a lunatic asylum” will not retreat easily, but it will retreat eventually. As will the GOP politicians who’ve done far too much enabling of cheap parochial resentments and lip-service “heritage” defenders. I was not surprised that our own Republican Governor Charlie Baker would mouth cant about “what I would call sort of tradition or something like that,” but I was pleasantly surprised that he had to walk back over his own tongue so quickly…

Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker apologized on Thursday for saying South Carolina residents “can make their own call” about flying the Confederate flag outside their state capitol…

Baker, who reached out to Massachusetts’ black community during last year’s election, initially tried to frame the issue as a matter of local government control.

“I like local government,” said Baker, a former selectman in his hometown of Swampscott. “The farther government gets away from the people the more nervous I get about the way it behaves, and my view on stuff like this is that South Carolinians can make their own call.”

He acknowledged what he called the “heated debate that’s gone on over the years down there about that,” but he added, “I do believe that the reason that flag still hangs there is, you know, what I would call sort of tradition or something like that.”

During a second radio interview later Thursday on WBZ-AM radio, Baker walked away from his earlier comments and said “that flag should be gone.”

“I certainly apologize. I did hear from friends of mine who said, ‘Jesus, Charlie, you know, what were you thinking?'” Baker said….

Agreed, the Peoples’ Republic Commonwealth is not the Heritage Heartland. But we do have our own deplorable history of racist behavior… and a parallel history of being a bellwether for social change.

Two Years Ago, The Supreme Court Said There Isn’t Enough Racism To Justify The Voting Rights Act http://t.co/5CrMIBfEIu

— Ian Millhiser (@imillhiser) June 18, 2015

Are you for real #FoxNews? #CharlestonShooting is an attack on faith like 911 was an attack on skyscraper architects pic.twitter.com/RrjaYK74u6

— Andon's Dad™ (@BrewStudNo1) June 18, 2015

This church shooting in Charleston would be at least the 142nd mass shooting in America in 2015.

— Greg Tepper (@Tepper) June 18, 2015

Why is it the people who cry loudest about American exceptionalism are willing to accept the perpetual violence of a war torn backwater?

— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) June 18, 2015

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Previous Post: « Isn’t This Criminal Negligence?
Next Post: Friday Morning Open Thread »

Reader Interactions

91Comments

  1. 1.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 1:09 am

    no omnes? seriously.

  2. 2.

    David Koch

    June 19, 2015 at 1:13 am

    Jon Stewart:

    “I honestly have nothing other than sadness that once again we have to peer into the abyss of the depraved violence that we do to each other and the nexus of a just gaping racial wound that will not heal yet we pretend doesn’t exist. I’m confident though that by acknowledging it—by staring into it—we still won’t do jack shit. That’s us. And that’s the part that blows my mind…What blows my mind is the disparity of response. When we think people that are foreign are going to kill us and us killing ourselves…We invade two countries and spent trillions of dollars and lost thousands of American lives and now fly unmanned death machines over like five or six different counties, all to keep Americans safe. We’ve got to do whatever we can—we’ll torture people. We’ve got to do whatever we can to keep Americans safe. But nine people shot in a church— ‘Hey, what are you going go to do? Crazy is as crazy is, right?’ That’s the part that, for the life of me, I can’t wrap my head around. And you know it’s going to go down the same path.”

    “Nine people were shot in a black church by a white guy who hated them who wanted to start some sort of civil war. The confederate flag flies over South Carolina. And the roads are named for confederate generals. And the white guy is the one who feels like his country is being taken away from him. We’re bringing it on ourselves. And that’s the thing—al Qaeda, ISIS, they’re not shit compared to the damage we can do to ourselves on a regular basis.”

  3. 3.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 1:16 am

    we need a something. religion? nope, bet he was religious in his own way.

    we need philosophy? no, we hate that.

    we need cops? no, just no.

    we need less guns? no we love fucking guns.

    we need a black president? yeah, no, yeah.

    oh we need something.

  4. 4.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 1:33 am

    seriously? nobody can bother to show up tonight?

  5. 5.

    the Conster

    June 19, 2015 at 1:34 am

    @David Koch: Jon Stewart will go down in history for that clip of his tonight. It’s a BOOM goes the dynamite, dropped mic no fucks left to give truth bomb.

  6. 6.

    Amir Khalid

    June 19, 2015 at 1:35 am

    @Little Boots:
    This is too sombre an occasion for the Malay pop playlist.

  7. 7.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 1:37 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    thank the jeebus.

  8. 8.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 1:42 am

    need my omnes, who gets me.

  9. 9.

    Amir Khalid

    June 19, 2015 at 1:43 am

    @Little Boots:
    In a few days, maybe.

  10. 10.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 1:46 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    fine, malay pop

  11. 11.

    mai naem mobile

    June 19, 2015 at 1:46 am

    The florist woman who followed Stormfront Roof’s car in NC apparently caught his pic watching Fox & Friends this AM. Its apparently a favorite show of hers.
    Also too, I hope StormFront Roofs cellmate is a big black guy. Huuuge as the Donald.would say. I don’t mean this as a prison rape joke, just something to scare the sheet out of the coward thug.

  12. 12.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 1:54 am

    oh, this place, at least it gets ta nehisi.

  13. 13.

    mdblanche

    June 19, 2015 at 2:02 am

    Today was also a big news day in Europe. I wish I could say it was good news.

    First, the Eurozone crisis (after 5 years shouldn’t it qualify as a chronic?) seems to have degenerated into a game of chicken between Greece and everyone else. If nobody swerves by the end of the month, Greece defaults, but we could see a bank run and capital controls even sooner. If that happens, nobody will suffer more than the Greeks (again), but if it gets bad enough it could drag down the economy on this side of the pond too.

    Today was also election day in Denmark. In a depressingly familiar pattern, the right over-performed its polling and will be taking power from the Social Democrats. Pretty much all the gains went to an anti-immigrant Islamaphobic party that will be the largest supporter of the new government. Stoking up racism is proving to be a potent tactic for the right around the world, so expect to see more of it, and bread-and-butter issues aren’t cutting it as a counter. So serious question Bernie, how are you going to sell Scandinavian style socialism to people who don’t want to help people who are different when they can’t even do that in Scandinavia (also, what’s up with claiming we’d overcome racism and that A record from the NRA)? The new government is also already promising to help David Cameron in his quest to hobble the EU, but at this rate Brussels is probably going to do itself in first.

    I’m going to bed. It was a mistake to get up at all today.

  14. 14.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 2:04 am

    @mdblanche:

    greece should default. austerity is some serious bullshit. everyone default.

  15. 15.

    mai naem mobile

    June 19, 2015 at 2:05 am

    Haven’t heard anything from Stephen Colbert on the shooting and hes from Charleston.I’m guessing he knew some of the victims from his sister running for Congress.

  16. 16.

    Kropadope

    June 19, 2015 at 2:28 am

    @mdblanche:

    also, what’s up with claiming we’d overcome racism

    Quote?

  17. 17.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 2:32 am

    needs more omnes.

  18. 18.

    Viva BrisVegas

    June 19, 2015 at 2:41 am

    @Little Boots:

    greece should default. austerity is some serious bullshit.

    Greece is being punished for being bottom guy in the Ponzi scheme that was the GFC.

    The Germans expect the Greek middle class to pay for everybody’s sins.

  19. 19.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 19, 2015 at 2:41 am

    @Little Boots: Meh. I can’t stay.

  20. 20.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 2:42 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    dammit, fine.

    will miss you.

    you know I’m obsessed.

  21. 21.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 2:42 am

    @Viva BrisVegas:

    yup, germany is a dick. a total dick. just stop, germany.

  22. 22.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 2:43 am

    you piss me off, omnes, but you are not wrong.

  23. 23.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 2:45 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    dammit, love you all over, you are a goob. dammit.

  24. 24.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 2:47 am

    damn, I love omnes, just damn.

  25. 25.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 19, 2015 at 2:48 am

    @Little Boots: Better? Dude. I am so happy about something going on in my life that I won’t mess with your oddness. Okay? Be happy for me.

    ETA: You should be polite here. Seriously.

  26. 26.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 2:49 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I am going to guess what you mean. and I am going to be very happy about that.

  27. 27.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 2:51 am

    and I am actually surprised by that song. but okay.

  28. 28.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 2:52 am

    and when am I impolite?

  29. 29.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 19, 2015 at 2:57 am

    @Little Boots: Have this in lieu of an explanation and an apology. For the rest, don’t try to guess. Life exists beyond this blog. If you like me, be happy for me.

  30. 30.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 2:58 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    now I have to do it. you know I have to do it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCw3-YTffo

  31. 31.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 2:59 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I am very happy for you. always

  32. 32.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:00 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    you know I love you, always.

  33. 33.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 19, 2015 at 3:00 am

    @Little Boots: You know that I prefer the original.

  34. 34.

    ruemara

    June 19, 2015 at 3:01 am

    this comment from a reader regarding the Charleston shooting has me slamming my head against the wall.

    Why is this a black church in the first place? Why don’t they welcome all to come and worship together instead of segregated themselves in a church designated as a black church?

    I wish racism didn’t exist, but it does and sadly goes both ways.

    Fucker. Black churches exist because we weren’t allowed to worship in white churches. We made our own and unlike those guys, we welcomed everyone. Including this murdering scumbag terrorist, Dylann Roof. This has been a week of intense racial insanity.

  35. 35.

    opiejeanne

    June 19, 2015 at 3:07 am

    @ruemara: Some people are just fucking stupid.

  36. 36.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:07 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    fine you win, you are so annoying.

  37. 37.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:08 am

    and I’m happy for you, although you are so damn annoying.

  38. 38.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:09 am

    if it is the someone I think it is.

  39. 39.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 19, 2015 at 3:09 am

    @Little Boots: @Little Boots: I take it seriously. I know that you say silly things, but you mean well. Thank you. I met someone and I like her a lot. She seams demented enough to feel similarly. It makes me happy, and she seems okay with it.

    ETA: Say one bad word about the girl and I will cut you. I will find you and cut you. Got it?

  40. 40.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:11 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    good. and I do not just say silly things. I care about you. I hope you, and she, are happy.

    and you could be a bit kinder too, by the way.

  41. 41.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 19, 2015 at 3:16 am

    @Little Boots: No offense was intended. You can get odd, shall we say. I don’t want that here. She matters to me. And she is aware of this blog.

  42. 42.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:17 am

    and you are such a goob, by the way, but here, music:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgTSfJEf_jM

  43. 43.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:18 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    good, you are a great guy, but you know what, sometimes you are not the best either.

  44. 44.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 19, 2015 at 3:20 am

    @Little Boots: How about Silly Love Songs?

    ETA: @Omnes: Happy for ya, kid.

  45. 45.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:21 am

    I am happy for you, but dammit, sometimes, you are such a pain in the ass.

    I am very happy for you, any woman would be lucky, but goddammit, sometimes, man, you are so annoying.

  46. 46.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 19, 2015 at 3:22 am

    @Little Boots: Fine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd_Fdly3rX8

  47. 47.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:23 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    love it. sometimes,

    I should just stop here.

    I like you, billin.

  48. 48.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 19, 2015 at 3:25 am

    My theme song.

    Good night all.

  49. 49.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:27 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    see? dammit, you are impossible, and funny.

  50. 50.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:29 am

    you know what I need? steeplejack.

  51. 51.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:33 am

    and billin

  52. 52.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 19, 2015 at 3:34 am

    @Little Boots: Bad link. Sorry. My theme song.

  53. 53.

    Steeplejack (tablet)

    June 19, 2015 at 3:36 am

    @Kropadope:

    Reference to the ThinkProgress link above about SCOTUS gutting the Voting Rights Act because we don’t need it any more. Chief Justice Roberts thinks we’re post-racial.

  54. 54.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:36 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    she secretly wrote that song about me.

  55. 55.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:37 am

    and I’m still happy for you, although you are a dick and she is crazy and should suffer, but I’m kind of happy for you.

  56. 56.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 19, 2015 at 3:37 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: I prefer the original.

  57. 57.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:38 am

    and I am happy that steeplejack is here.

  58. 58.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 19, 2015 at 3:38 am

    @Little Boots: Sure, she said “you probably think this song is about you”.

  59. 59.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:39 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    she totes did.

  60. 60.

    wasabi gasp

    June 19, 2015 at 3:40 am

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpqqjU7u5Yc

  61. 61.

    Little Boots

    June 19, 2015 at 3:43 am

    can we have folk?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVTC7Vggd2M

  62. 62.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 19, 2015 at 3:44 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Carly’s version is brilliant.

  63. 63.

    Steeplejack (tablet)

    June 19, 2015 at 3:45 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    LOL. Big props for really wading into the ’70s morass. A testament to your depth of character.

  64. 64.

    Villago Delenda Est

    June 19, 2015 at 3:46 am

    @Steeplejack (tablet): Well, Faux Noise was doing everything they could think of to paint this terrorist attack as not being racist in nature. We just have to be post-racial, yo. It’s all behind us.

    Right. Tell this to the grieving relatives of those who died in Charleston, to the family of Tamir Rice, to the family of Michael Brown, to all the relatives of every single black individual shot for driving or walking or breathing while black.

  65. 65.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 19, 2015 at 3:47 am

    @Steeplejack (tablet): Or just reliving his childhood.

  66. 66.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 19, 2015 at 3:53 am

    @Steeplejack (tablet): I’ll just put this here.

  67. 67.

    Betty Cracker

    June 19, 2015 at 4:14 am

    Anyone else follow Pope Francis on Twitter? He’s been trolling the shit out of conservatives for the last day or two. Climate change, wealth inequality, etc.

  68. 68.

    piratedan

    June 19, 2015 at 4:17 am

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ywceG6onqg

  69. 69.

    Steeplejack

    June 19, 2015 at 4:32 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    They had some good songs, e.g., “Dreadlock Holiday.” Plus one of them, Graham Gouldman, wrote or cowrote a lot of good ’60s songs, e.g. “Heart Full of Soul.”

    ETA: Damn, I hate writing on my tablet. I laboriously fumble-thumbed this whole thing and then had chrome puke out as I was trying to gather and copy the YouTube links. Fuck.

    ETFA: Momentary go-go dancers. But tasteful and British. Need gold pants.

  70. 70.

    fuckwit

    June 19, 2015 at 4:34 am

    @Betty Cracker: In one of Robert Anton Wilson’s novels, written in the 1970s, there was an alternate reality in which the first Irish pope was elected– Pope Stephen– and he was a Franciscan by training, and a total hippie, a gentle and serene person who was completely tolerant of everyone, not judgemental, feminist, supported caring for the environment, was a strong advocate for the poor, etc. Wilson thought this was a hilarious fiction, and implausible scenario, and complete wishful thinking on his part.

    Who knows, maybe the impossible has actually happened, and Wilson’s fantasy has come true?

  71. 71.

    Steeplejack

    June 19, 2015 at 4:38 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    He has made it pretty clear that after he heard the Clash it was all over. And I think early and mid-’70s were a bit before his time.

  72. 72.

    Aleta

    June 19, 2015 at 4:40 am

    http://youtu.be/nCTSIm6_0ik

  73. 73.

    Aleta

    June 19, 2015 at 4:55 am

    http://youtu.be/9cgDIa9ndcY

  74. 74.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 19, 2015 at 4:56 am

    @Steeplejack: Did I ever mention that I saw the Clash open for the Who?

  75. 75.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    June 19, 2015 at 5:00 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Well, you have now, Mr. Big Shot Music Dude. Cool.

  76. 76.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 19, 2015 at 5:18 am

    @Steeplejack (phone): I mentioned that to Omnes once, he told me “I hate you”.

    ETA: Abandoned the tablet for the phone? I let the kid play with my Win10 tablet today.

  77. 77.

    Joel

    June 19, 2015 at 6:19 am

    @mai naem mobile: cell mate? Hell no. I want him in ADX Florence. No cell mates, or any other kind of mates. See how sixty years of that works out.

  78. 78.

    Aleta

    June 19, 2015 at 6:31 am

    What depresses me most right now is my belief that the n/r-a and other pro-g orgs have been so fast and effective in sending out demands and phrasings (and even ads) to the politicians and talk shows and columnists that, one way or another, they own. And how fully so many in the media rolled right over. Myself, I don’t believe that each of those heads was saying something they thought of and individually believed or disbelieved. More like the actors who got paid to show up at the foot of trump’s escalator holding a manufactured homemade sign. It’s just a job for the tv faces and columnists, and I believe the message/demand of what to say went out in a fast organized way, and it’s just sick. And I believe that outcry and reason and comparative analysis and argument are not going to affect too many who hold the gunmindset. It’s one reason that the PR moves so fast. Get out ahead of the story is the way to do damage control.

  79. 79.

    Sherparick

    June 19, 2015 at 7:20 am

    I took in about 60 seconds of O’Reilly last night, which is about all my mental health can stand. He was doing his usual shtick whenever a white guy does something terrible “this guy was just loser psycho, his acts have nothing to do with me or you out their audience,” when of course every time a Black person or Muslim commits terrible act, then “the whole culture and all are depraved.”

    It is amazing how the prion disease its away at the brains of the apparently intelligent (or is it ruthless) people like Baker, (although Baker became rich the old fashion way – inheritance and marriage). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Baker#Health_industry_career. I am surprise that as he uttered these words that Colonel Shaw and the 54th Massachussets did march down from their monument and dump Baker in the bay. http://www.nps.gov/boaf/learn/historyculture/shaw.htm

    The Confederate Battle Flag – symbol of treason and slavery. Long may it be burned and trampled into the ground.

  80. 80.

    Another Holocene Human

    June 19, 2015 at 7:27 am

    911 as attack on skyscraper architects, actually given that OBL’s dad made all his money in construction financed by the Saudi ruling family and OBL hates the Saudi ruling family, I’ve always suspected their was malice there against architectural engineers. And he carefully chose that building because it was controversial when built. (And yes, the building did fail, but not the way he anticipated. That basement bomb was a dud.)

    Charlie Baker is such an ass. Patrick was so eloquent in the face of adversity. I can understand his wife wanting out of politics, I mean it sucks, but he wore that leader hat well.

    Charleston story! Okay, not only is Charleston, SC still well ahead of the pack for Most Racist City I Have Ever Experienced, I mean you beat Boston (by a long shot, despite incidents), you beat San Diego, you beat European cities where there were jerks (emphasis on isolated jerks), you slayed anything so far in Florida that’s not a scary backwoods dirt track on the Redneck Riviera where I won’t go because self preservation. The only area that’s close is the North Georgia mountain country, Dahlonega to Helen. The actual area in and around the state park is very integrated because Atlanta people come there. But there were incidents in Dahlonega and Helen. I still think Charleston city is actually worse. (Data gathering not super scientific but involves walking down city streets in mixed race groups and noting reactions. But other data points are tossed in.)

    One time I was in a yarn shop in Charleston city, in the historic area, because my wife likes that kind of thing, and while she’s socializing, I’m looking around because I was bored. And wouldn’t you know, there’s those “cute” little art prints of (excuse the language) pickaninnies eating watermelon with stylized nappy hair. *cue vomit* They sell that shit right in Charleston. I told my wife I don’t care how nice the proprietor seems, she is not a nice person.

    Like this, for sale right now, but full color.

    I went to Charleston Market and made a point of requesting a book of slave narratives from the clueless white college student clerks at the historical society booth. I hope at least one of them was curious enough to thumb through it….

  81. 81.

    Another Holocene Human

    June 19, 2015 at 7:28 am

    @Sherparick: He must scuttle in and out the back door of the State House.

  82. 82.

    Another Holocene Human

    June 19, 2015 at 7:33 am

    @Betty Cracker: Like this: https://twitter.com/Pontifex/status/611755312693915649

    That was a good one. He said a lot of typical conservative platitudes and then he took out the stabbing knife.

  83. 83.

    Another Holocene Human

    June 19, 2015 at 7:40 am

    @ruemara: Fuck yeah, there was a gathering at a Black church in our town last night. We didn’t go … I was too busy and my wife was dealing with a fallout of an internet a-splosion. But she verbalized that maybe now as a white person she shouldn’t be in that space. I told her she was totally wrong, there were always a few white people in Black churches because they aren’t exclusionary–and if she did go (again, she was totally not up to it, she was so upset about what happened online she had called crisis counseling and shut down her blog), most of the usual suspects from every protest and action in town would be there, although hopefully a number of new faces as well.

    In New England I knew a number of white AME goers. And our local Baptist congregation was half Black and half white. Kind of a mind blower for me the first time I was there (it was a choir thing), because my Catholic church was diverse in that it was half Irish and half Italian, and a few of the Irish were still pissed about that.

  84. 84.

    C.V. Danes

    June 19, 2015 at 8:00 am

    The problem is not the flag. If you get rid of it, the haters will just find another symbol to rally around.

    The problem is the ease with which Dylaan Roof was able to arm himself to exact maximum damage from his hate. Personally, I find it somewhat of a red herring to focus on the flag while allowing every white supremacist asshole to pack enough fitepower to start a small war because freedumb.

  85. 85.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 19, 2015 at 8:37 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: You understand that that was envy, yes?

  86. 86.

    gogol's wife

    June 19, 2015 at 8:41 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Congratulations!

  87. 87.

    Patricia Kayden

    June 19, 2015 at 8:43 am

    @Sherparick: 60 seconds of O’Really is way too much. He’s a White Supremacist which explains why he’s always defending White perps and denouncing the entire Black community for anything one Black person does.

    I thought that MSNBC did a pretty good job of covering the aftermath of the shooting in S.C. Stayed up way past my bedtime watching The Last Word. Still feeling numb and shocked at the callousness of Roof’s action.

  88. 88.

    Patricia Kayden

    June 19, 2015 at 8:49 am

    @C.V. Danes: We can do both — focus on taking down the flag and tighten gun regulations. I don’t think it’s an “either or” situation.

  89. 89.

    Denali

    June 19, 2015 at 9:40 am

    @Ommes,

    Memories.

  90. 90.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 19, 2015 at 10:51 am

    @C.V. Danes: It’s a symbol, but letting it stay up is also a symbol: it says “we’ll let you get away with as much crap as you want, up to and including flying your symbol of slavery and racist violence on the state capitol, because it’s not worth the bother of putting up a fight”.

    It says, to white racists, “your kind of people run this state and always will”. And that any other kind of power is illegitimate.

  91. 91.

    Paul in KY

    June 19, 2015 at 11:32 am

    @Little Boots: Your posts generally piss me off.

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