2016 candidates who are stiff during selfies "shouldn’t be president," says an Iowa lobbyist who has taken a few http://t.co/0kSvkWCiPc
— The New York Times (@nytimes) July 5, 2015
The nation’s paper of record:
… Candidates can now spend an hour — or sometimes two, as Senator Rand Paul did last month in New Hampshire — exhausting a line of eager selfie seekers. Others, like Senator Ted Cruz, have learned to add an extra 20 minutes at the beginning and end of events because so many people want pictures…
But as campaigns adjust to a new self-focused social media world, some are left wondering whether more meaningful voter-candidate interactions are suffering. When candidates oblige so many people, some requesting multiple takes to straighten that smile, square a double chin or get a pesky photo bomber out of the frame, are they losing the chance to clarify a policy position, listen to concerns or even just look a voter in the eye?
“It’s self-serving, and the candidate is kind of screwed,” said Craig Robinson, a former political director of the Iowa Republican Party.
“They just have to put up with it, because how do you decipher who is a fan and who wants to fill their profile with pictures of them with candidates?” said Mr. Robinson, now the editor of The Iowa Republican, a political publication…
“The candidate,” good sir? Or just the semi-pro grip’n’grin parasites in the media-friendly Early States now seeing themselves crowded out by amateurs?…
… “This race feels more like a spectator sport than an election,” said Mr. Harmon, an independent who shook hands with former Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida and watched a dozen other campaign contingents march through this town of about 11,000. “Having all these candidates is a real problem, because it’ll be hard to hear each of them. I’m interested in Jeb Bush, but it’s not easy to pay attention to just one when there are so many.”
The likely field of 16 Republican candidates is stirring frustration, particularly among [New Hampshire] voters who say they feel more overwhelmed, even ambivalent, than ever before about their long-cherished responsibilities in holding the nation’s first primary. Some voters said they were already dreading the weeks of political fliers stuffed in their mailboxes, of campaign volunteers at their doors during the day and of television ads and automated phone calls all through the night. Others said they already had candidate fatigue…
For decades, New Hampshire has fought to keep its place at the front of the presidential nominating contests, and party leaders talk with almost religious fervor about the state’s duty to “screen” and “weed out” second-tier wannabes to save most other Americans the trouble. The state’s news outlets, political consultants, and hotel and hospitality industries also make tens of millions of dollars from the campaign operations. Politics is pastime here, but the 2016 race creates a challenge that is the opposite of a leisure pursuit: Is there such a thing for New Hampshire voters as too many presidential candidates?…
New England’s “Live Free or Die Trying” state has been making bank on its first-in-the-nation status since at least Harry Truman, and now a nationwide plethora of self-involved selfie-seekers combine with a superabundance of self-involved “candidates” to leach away the limelight. Sad commentary (not).
Baud
Sounds great, but you unfortunately can’t knock out the entire GOP field.
A Ghost To Most
Is it even possible to be too cynical these days?
craigie
What’s the word for a selfie with more than just yourself in it?
Baud
@A Ghost To Most:
Maybe when you stop believing the cynics.
trollhattan
@craigie:
Don’t know that one, but a portrait is a reverse-selfie.
Baud
@craigie:
The old word for more than two was manage-a-trois.
satby
@craigie: not “groupie”; that’s already taken.
Baud
@satby:
That’s good though. It can be repurposed.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Repurposing a groupie sounds kind of dirty.
dmsilev
Worst Voltron remake _ever_.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Only if you’re doing it right.
Hal
A friend on Facebook who said he couldn’t care less about the confederate flag is now on to his 6th or 7th post in a row about how ridiculous the controversy is, and is now asking people to focus on the death of the 7 year old in Chicago and the woman in San Francisco. You know, real issues. Break out the marshmallows, we got us a straw man bonfire going.
MomSense
@Baud:
Ha!
Mike J
@Hal: It would be great if we could put the treason flag behind us forever, but the right wing nutjobs insist on fighting over something they claim is meaningless. Can’t they just let it go?
Pogonip
@Hal: What woman in San Francisco?
satby
@Mike J: Totally quoting you on the book of face, where I continue ideologically battling the traitor apologists. I guess I have a high tolerance for tedium.
piratedan
@Pogonip: supposedly a homicide by a five time Mexican deportee, using that as a focal point on our failed immigration system… much in the way that they leveraged the SB1074 act in Arizona because of the death of a rancher due to a person smuggling coyote
jl
@Pogonip: I think he means woman who was shot by undocumented person from Mexico a few days ago at Embarcadero tourist area in San Francisco. They captured a suspect, and first I heard he claimed he was trying to shoot at a sea lion, and last I heard he says it was a total accident when his gun fell out of this clothing.
The guy has several felonies and was deported several times in the past. Authorities knew he was here, but he was not deported, and something about the decision is related to the SF sanctuary law.
The woman’s mother was interviewed on local news complaining about what she says is sensationalistic and partisan news people hounding her family and neighbors. Trump tweeted about the shooting as evidence of the illegal immigration menace.
Roger Moore
@dmsilev:
Hard to believe it could be worse than the original, but the Republicans keep slithering under the bar, no matter how low it’s set.
NotMax
@craigie
A photo.
Kay
Good piece about “middle skill” jobs. Democrats could really seize on this but they’ll have to resist the temptation to start scolding people about the “skills gap” because that just sounds horrible coming from people with graduate degrees and lectures aren’t helpful anyway.
shell
Another shark attack in North Carolina. People are still going in the water?
srv
Even the Holder joins the GG Brigade:
mdblanche
We’re up to sixteen candidates now? At this rate by the time of the Iowa caucuses I estimate we should have… one million seven hundred seventy one thousand five hundred sixty one. That’s assuming one candidate, multiplying with an average litter of ten, producing a new generation every twelve hours over a period of three days. And allowing for the amount of publicity consumed and the volume of the clown car.
Mike J
@shell: There ware worse things.
SiubhanDuinne
@shell:
Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
shell
@Mike J: Shit!
I blame Christie
KG
@craigie: it’s still a selfie, as long as one person in the photo is holding the phone/camera and taking the picture, it’s a selfie.
Corner Stone
@Kay:
Those people who are looking for a job are the ones who should resist the urge to scold people. They need to get down to business and look for the opportunities afforded them, then climb those ladders.
srv
@shell: Chief Brody gets no respect.
dmsilev
@mdblanche: You forgot to account for the rate at which they consume each other. It should only be a few tens of thousands of candidates, max.
Kay
This is a rare:
http://www.strategy-business.com/article/00324?gko=1c407
Another Holocene Human
@Kay: There is no skills gap. There is, however, a not-wanting-to-pay-any-taxes-ever gap.
American factories were shuttered in part because the owners spent the profits on themselves instead of investing them in new equipment.
Working class people work very hard to get degrees and certifications because they see a direct benefit to themselves. Unfortunately, our 1% betters won’t sully themselves by properly funding community colleges (yeah, there was a reason Bamz was on that one) and there is a whole eco-system of scam-schools out to defraud the innocent seeker.
James E Powell
@Mike J:
The can’t let the flag of white supremacy go because that would be like letting white supremacy go. And if the Republicans did not have white supremacy, what would they campaign on?
Another Holocene Human
@Kay: This is satire, right?
ps: I had Aetna healthcare coverage as a grad student and it was horribly, laughably bad, despite the best efforts of Commonwealth of Massachusetts insurance regulators
KG
@Kay: that is a nice change, especially considering Blue Shield of California has lost its non-profit/tax exempt status for basically running itself like a for-profit corporation.
Kay
@Corner Stone:
It’s tricky, because you don’t want to be “don’t go to college, you! off to the trades!” but at the same time it’s wildly popular here: our vo-tech high school is oversubscribed. People figured this out themselves.
Arne Duncan is not up to this task. Find someone else. Anyone.
Tommy
@shell: Yes. I recall going to Hawaii for the first time. Red flags out. Surf was high. I ran out into the surf. Parents didn’t care, you can swim like a fish. Sharks, they are in the water. Lions in a grasslands. Bears in the woods. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try those things. I so hate this, shark fear thing if that isn’t clear.
Kay
@Another Holocene Human:
I think I had it once too, or the logo seems familiar. I had a period where I bought a family policy on the regular market. The premium was more than my mortgage.
I have been lucky enough to need health insurance only infrequently so I’m mostly okay with the service I have gotten from various companies.
Major Major Major Major
Off to Krav, now that they’re open again after the long weekend. Then more programming I guess. Le sigh.
Another Holocene Human
@James E Powell: I have a theory about white supremacy.
There’s nothing worse than being told by a parent, implicitly or explicitly, that you are bad and not valued. As human beings we need that affirmation, so it’s natural to seek it elsewhere. (Many are the budding sociopaths saved by the kindness expressed by an unrelated adult.) Our society as a whole tells Black kids they’re not valued, which is why Black parents work so hard to instill a sense of self esteem in their children. When they encounter the world, and its lies, they know it to be lies. But a white child with poor self esteem also receives all of these general messages of white merit and worth which they inherit by being white.
If that person then makes nothing of their life, if the feedback they get on a personal level is negative, they are faced with the reality that the world is a lie. But that is very dangerous because it would seem to validate the poor self worth that this individual already has. So the reaction is to reject the clear evidence of failure and cling to white supremacy. We’ve long noticed that white supremacists seem to be overpopulated with the biggest failures and losers that demographic can cough up. Maybe this is why?
Amir Khalid
@mdblanche:
There are horrors I do not care to contemplate, and that right there is most of them.
JGabriel
NYT via Anne Laurie @ Top:
Isn’t it really past the expiration date for the NYT to still be making jokes about Anthony Weiner?
Another Holocene Human
@Kay: They had a special brand name for student insurance. Needless to say it had a bad reputation with grad students across the country. I think my parents had regular Aetna at one time through my father’s employer and it was perfectly all right.
Major Major Major Major
@Another Holocene Human: you forgot another salient fact. It rhymes with “H-1-sea”.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Tommy: “There’s a bear in the woods…”
You used to be an ad guy, remember that one?
Another Holocene Human
@JGabriel: ba-dum-TISH
BillinGlendaleCA
@JGabriel: Or, Anthony’s Weiner?
El Caganer
A fucking selfie with a candidate is “meaningful voter interaction?” Jesus Christ, by that standard Clint Eastwood should be elected President for talking to a chair.
WereBear
@mdblanche: Have your Republican candidates spayed and neutered!
Because no one wants to give them a home.
BillinGlendaleCA
@WereBear: I think it’s because they’re all rabid.
Kay
@Another Holocene Human:
It’s amazing how much it costs even with insurance. My youngest had a bad wrist break months ago and I’m still getting bills. They had to put him out and re-set it because it was close to nerves that go to his hand. He is right now at a tennis lesson so it seems to be cured!
Omnes Omnibus
@BillinGlendaleCA: Some also have mange.
Tommy
OK. I am watching The Brief Case. I generally speaking hate reality TV shows that are not cooking. But where people give, well I an a sucker for. This show is hard to watch because they are all giving away money. Not know they both have the same money. Us humans are better people than we think we are.
WereBear
@Omnes Omnibus: And they are all completely untrainable.
schrodinger's cat
@mdblanche: You won’t get a number that ends in sixty one if we are talking of multiples of ten. Please check your math. Kthx bai.
The answer is elebenty.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodinger’s cat:
I presume some will eat some of the others.
Belafon
Ten thousand people show up at a campaign rally. How much meaningful interaction will there be?
It’s a stupid metric.
the Conster
Bernie’s filling a stadium in Portland, ME tonight, with extra demand to get in. If I’m Robby Mook, I’m looking for some Hillary buzz and not just from selfies and from fucking with the media clowns.
Omnes Omnibus
@the Conster: Why? Obama never bothered with “win the day” fights. Why should HRC?
different-church-lady
Remember those bumper stickers from the early 80s that said “KILL YOUR TELEVISION”? I update those every once in a while. “KILL YOUR FACEBOOK” is now passe, but “KILL YOUR SMART PHONE” is quite apropos.
different-church-lady
@mdblanche:
That’s perfect: now we can fill out our brackets.
SatanicPanic
Looks like Cosby admitted to buying drugs to give to women in 2005.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: Because OH MY GOD SHE’S GOING TO BLOW IT why.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, that was one of Obama’s strongest attributes.
Kay
@the Conster:
This is probably too hopeful on my part, but I think the media focus on his liberalism is reading it wrong. That’s absolutely part of it, but a big part of his message is the role money plays in campaigns and policy. That was Teachout’s thing in NY too and it seemed to reach people.
I know the media coverage will be Left versus Right but his focus is much bigger than that. He’s talking about capture and corruption – not “corruption” in the sense of actionable (violating a statute) but a broader pay to play idea. It’s not as ideological as they are setting it up. There’s a strong “good government” message there.
They ignored that with Teachout too and it’s central to both of them.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: And to me, it seems that, in addition to hiring ex-Obama campaign staff, HRC is adopting his strategy of refusing to enter into every pie fight and twitterflutter. I see this as a good thing.
the Conster
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s not win the day – he’s setting out his vision to base voters who will now probably crawl over glass to vote for him. This is a long campaign, and he’s out there doing what he needs to do to shift the ground. Good for him, and like I said, if I were her campaign manager, I’d be paying close attention to what he’s doing and especially saying.
dmsilev
@Omnes Omnibus: And it’s driving the press even more bonkers than normal. Win-win.
the Conster
@Omnes Omnibus:
No one gives a shit about the press – obviously the people who are showing up for the Sanders rallies aren’t being influenced by the press since he’s largely either invisible to or easily dismissed by them. The people who are showing up to hear Bernie in large numbers are finding their way by themselves. This would concern me if I were Mook.
different-church-lady
@the Conster: He’s playing it smart by starting his stump tour in locations that are a slam dunk for liberal politics. Get the illusion of big energy going and get over the stupid “unelectable” tag, and that opens the door to the uphill climb that follows. I imagine once he has to start hitting battleground areas not of his choosing is when we’ll see if he has legs.
Kay
@the Conster:
In some ways I think the “big money is buying your government” is more radical than single payer or any of his other policy preferences, judging by how political media are pretending he isn’t saying that when it’s fully half of what he’s running on. You really have to try to ignore it. It seems clear to me that he believes we don’t get policy that benefits a broader slice of people because the system is awash in campaign cash. He says as much constantly.
Amir Khalid
@Omnes Omnibus:
Sanders and Hillary are starting from different places. Sanders needs to build up name recognition and buzz among people who aren’t politics junkies, and to do it fairly quickly, so I get that it makes sense for him to have the big rallies.
Whereas Hillary is already one of the most famous people on the planet and she doesn’t have to climb that hill. I reckon her strategy is about making herself seem more approachable to the regular person — meeting and interacting with people individually. Plus, holding big rallies so early might expose her to accusations that she’s expecting the coronation she didn’t get in 2008. I expect she’ll be doing bigger events closer to the beginning of the primary season.
Baud
@the Conster: @different-church-lady:
Ron Paul also generated a lot of enthusiasm among his fans. Maybe Bernie can pull it off, but it’s way to early to do anything but wait and see.
Omnes Omnibus
@the Conster: I am sure they are very aware of what Sanders is doing.
@the Conster: Bernie drawing a good crowd in Madison and Portland is not something that is likely to be worrisome to a rational campaign manager.
mdblanche
@schrodinger’s cat: I confess. I stole the math from Mr. Spock. Which means I didn’t take cannibalism or the tendency of the candidates to also attack non-Klingon humanoids into account.
the Conster
@Kay:
You’re right – he hammers on that theme, and always has. That’s what bothers people the most about our current system – that it’s all been gamed in favor of the oligarchy, which of course it has been. He’s the only one who is credible talking about the middle class, and connects the right dots without demagoguing. I understand the appeal.
Ruckus
@Baud:
If they knock out the second tier, we’d still be left with the 2 tiers below that.
Belafon
@the Conster: it’s not like she’s had trouble drawing people: http://nypost.com/2015/06/13/crowds-gather-for-hillary-clintons-2016-campaign-kickoff-rally/.
While Sanders needs to show he can draw the kind of people needed to compete with her, she’s showing that she can connect with people. I thought this was pretty good: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/06/1399554/-Hillary-s-incredible-response-to-a-gay-teen-s-photo-on-Facebook. According to people, anything signed “-H” is actually written by Clinton.
The only thing that will really tire me over this rally is the adamant supporters fighting each other more than the candidates will.
JMG
Has there ever been a time when candidates weren’t happy to be photographed with voters? Did the Times have an article about Polaroid disrupting the campaign process in 1960?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Chris Christie wants an apology…. There’s a contest/game show on the food channel called Chopped, cooks are given crazy ingredients and each round the weakest dish gets a cook eliminated, chopped, as they say. Whenever a chef starts getting to cocky about his/her cooking, sneering at another cook, it’s often the producers telegraphing that pride goeth before a fall. I really hope the fates are gearing up to have David Waldstein pull the rug out from under Mrs Christie’s Bully Boy Buffoon.
M. Bouffant
Nation of rubes …
Omnes Omnibus
@Amir Khalid: Exactly right. She is sticking to her plan and I think it reflects well on her. If she were to panic and start changing things at this point, I would start having serious doubt about her fitness for the job.
SRW1
@Baud:
ménage-à-trois
/pedant
the Conster
@Belafon:
Competition is good for the Democrats. I read that Biden may jump in next month which will really be interesting, since he would most likely be running as Obama’s 3rd term. No one is actively courting the Obama coalition as far as I can tell, so there’s definitely a space to fill.
different-church-lady
@Amir Khalid: There’s a line somewhere between keeping your powder dry and pulling a Coakley. I imagine we’ll find out where it is soon enough.
different-church-lady
@SRW1: But you have to admit, a trois is something that requires more careful management, no?
Baud
@SRW1:
Füçkîñg kêybœrd ßhōwõff
Kay
@the Conster:
I just think it’s funny that it’s so rarely mentioned. Teachout wrote a piece about expanding the legal definition of corruption in the NYTimes and they still insisted on saying her appeal was “she’s to the Left of Cuomo”. It was more than that. She made a point of it taking it outside ideology, in fact. She wasn’t saying Cuomo was a principled fiscal conservative with whom she disagrees because she’s a liberal. She was saying he was influenced by donors.
I don’t think they want to talk about it, partly because political media are part of what has turned into a giant campaign apparatus that spends hundreds of millions of dollars, a lot of that on media buys. They would rather do the Left/Right analysis.
WereBear
@Kay: Because television is bleeding viewers. They can’t make it up with volume. They need that Citizens United cash.
the Conster
@Kay:
The media can’t talk about the intersection of corporatism, conservatism, Republicanism and the media, because all the dots get connected, and lead inexorably to the premise clearly laid out in Manufacturing Consent 25 years ago. I would guess that more than half of our media morons have never even heard of that concept, and those that have are whores.
ETA: with apologies to whores, who actually provide a valuable service.
Kay
@the Conster:
That’s what’s so gross to me about Trump. He knows there’s a segment of the GOP base who feel they are slipping economically so he reaches for…Mexican immigrants? Yeah, they’re the real power base in this country! They are running the show after as they finish their 12 hour overnight shift cleaning our offices! He’s a despicable human being. Sanders punches UP, which makes all the difference.
trollhattan
A classic stunt, Canada edition.
Zinsky
The “look at me” culture cultivated by Facebook, SnapChat, et al are turning Americans into self-indulged preeners who can’t think of anything beyond the next tweet.
sdhays
Hey, the Republican Klown Kar is doing positive for once: the citizens of New Hampshire are starting to come around to the idea that always being the “first in the nation” primary isn’t necessarily a good thing…
Cervantes
@Zinsky:
Do you think so? Or is widespread use of those things merely a symptom of the ailment, rather than its cause?
Mike J
@Kay:
She lost 62-34.
Amir Khalid
@different-church-lady:
I don’t think Hillary is foolish enough to do a Coakley.
Kay
@WereBear:
It’s just living in Ohio (tons and tons of ads) it started to occur to me we never get past “X took $ amount from C-Corp”
We have regular hand-wringing about that, but the money is going somewhere. The politicians aren’t keeping it. Okay. Where did it go? Who got paid? PR people, stats people, advertising people, media companies. They didn’t just collect a billion dollars from donors, they spent it.
the Conster
@Kay:
Trump is a loudmouthed idiot who says the first thing that comes out of his yap, because he’s never been told to shut up. I don’t even think he believes half of what he says, because I don’t think he stops to consider what it is he actually thinks. He’s the least self-aware person on the planet, and pure unleashed id. I can’t imagine how he gets shut down, and I can’t imagine him shutting up himself.
Suzanne
@Amir Khalid: EXACTLY. She is working hard to connect with people, not looking for giant crowds or photo ops that would suggest a “coronation”. She is showing every sign that she has learned from her 2008 mistakes.
I don’t think that Sanders will win, but I do he think he will charge up the left, and will prove that we are a serious faction of ideas. Daddy Paul is a joke, but he did prove that the libertarian wing is one to take seriously if you’re looking to lead the GOP.
Seriously, this is a great time to be a Dem. We have the best President in my lifetime right now, and we have two great candidates that give me great hope for the next eight years.
geg6
@WereBear:
This.
raven
Rachel has Frank Rich on.
Kay
@Mike J:
But she came out of nowhere against an extremely well-connected and powerful incumbent. I just think to miss this connection that they’re making, between policy and our campaign “system” is to miss a big part of what they talk about. Sanders says it straight out- I don’t know that he can get any clearer than “oligarchs have purchased your government”. That’s a much broader indictment (and much more radical) than “Medicare for all is better policy than the ACA”.
Cervantes
@Kay:
Smile when you say “radical.”
More seriously: I agree.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Kay,
did you see this?
………………
Ohio lawmakers scrap elected school boards and union contracts, usher in private control after barring opposition testimony
By Doug Livingston
Beacon Journal education writer
Published: June 25, 2015 – 09:23 AM | Updated: June 26, 2015 – 08:14 PM
In a bold move that has the potential for booting teachers unions from schools, stripping local voters of their authority over their school districts and turning operations over to for-profit companies, the Ohio legislature introduced and passed legislation in a matter of hours with no opportunity for the public to deliver opposition testimony.
The bill began innocuously in the House as an effort to help communities turn schools into comprehensive learning centers for the neighborhood. The bill passed from the House to the Senate a month ago with an overwhelming 92-6 vote.
Almost everyone liked it — until Wednesday.
The Ohio Federation of Teachers, one of the state’s unions representing teachers, was prepared to testify in favor of the bill as it headed for a committee vote.
But Melissa Cropper, president of the union, got wind of the amendment that could disenfranchise unions and voters and turn operations over to private interests.
When it came time for her to speak, she attempted to oppose the new provision, but was told that the amendment had not yet been offered, so she could not address it.
She sat down. The amendment was introduced and four men in line behind her who had traveled from Youngstown stepped up to give favorable testimony.
http://www.ohio.com/news/break-news/ohio-lawmakers-scrap-elected-school-boards-and-union-contracts-usher-in-private-control-after-barring-opposition-testimony-1.603233
Origuy
@Zinsky: Because these sites are available only to Americans and nobody in other countries has a smartphone.
Kay
@Cervantes:
I think Clinton will win. I actually think she’s stronger than many people here do. I think she has really resilient support that won’t show up as crowds at events but will be very reliable voters. But, I like primaries and I agree with every word Sanders says about wealthy people purchasing government. What’s it going to be in 5 years? 2 billion dollars? 3? There’s no end to this.
Cervantes
@Kay:
Unless we elect presidents and senators who, eventually, leave us with a much better federal judiciary than the one we have now, especially at the very top.
Kay
@rikyrah:
The general word is it’s Youngstown and they will resist. It isn’t going to fly there. I think it’s a massive over-reach. It’s not like Ohio is thrilled with ed reform anyway. Every newspaper in the state admonished them yesterday for promising to reform charter laws and then sneaking out on summer break without passing any “reforms”- folding under pressure from lobbyists. Ed reform is a mess in this state. It’s a freaking unfolding disaster. There’s a scandal a month. They’ve even lost the Columbus Dispatch, and I never thought that would happen.
Cervantes
@the Conster:
Put another way: if it gets to the point where his fellow Republicans release “negative ads” to beat him down, I don’t want to know the content.
Then again I feel the same way about the “negative ads” Clinton and Sanders may run against each other.
Dreadful prospect all around.
Kay
@Cervantes:
I don’t know- I went to a law school forum on Citizens and a lot of smart people said we’ll need a constitutional amendment. They thought it was decided in such a way as to make a new federal law really difficult. They can’t just pass it. It has to survive review.
Cervantes
@Amir Khalid:
Also, she may not match JFK or BHO or WJC in charisma — but her personality is quite different from Coakley’s.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: Hey! Oh, wait….
Cervantes
@Kay:
Review by whom, exactly, was my point — but I see what you’re saying, too.
Tree With Water
Here’s a judicial rationale that should give pause to holier than thou politicians. R.I.P. Terry Schiavo.
“..Federal judge Eduardo C. Robreno agreed to open the records, citing, among other factors, [Bill Cosby’s] longstanding morals crusade, which, in Robreno’s view, diminishes his right to privacy..”.
Chris T.
@Pogonip: Someone shot and killed a woman, Kathryn Steinle, in SF a few days ago. A guy named Franciso Sanchez (“Francisco San…”? is that a sign?) is the alleged shooter. Turns out that he’s been deported five times (see Reuters story). Clearly if he’d just been deported a sixth time, that would have saved Ms Steinle…
Cervantes
Even when it was, it wasn’t.
different-church-lady
@Cervantes: I didn’t mean be a Coakley, in the sense of not having the stuff to win. I meant pulling a Coakley, in the sense of “this is going to be a walk so I’m not going to bother campaigning very hard” as in 2010 against Scott Brown.
Eric U.
Howard Dean always had immense crowds. That’s why I think it’s funny that the DKos folks get so excited about good attendance at a campaign event. A candidate can have huge crowds, but when voting day comes it turns out they get 10000 votes. So all those people were showing up at all of the events. Hate to be too negative, it’s nice that people get excited about politics.
Cervantes
@Chris T.:
Deported five times?
I don’t know the facts or what law was relevant in his case until now but … yikes!
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
Had not meant to comment specifically on what you wrote, but since you bring it up here:
Did you perceive that to be her conscious choice? I think it might have been part of what happened but I also think she didn’t do the glad-handing mostly because she hated doing it, ever, not because she thought it was unnecessary in this instance.
Could be wrong, needless to say.
Major Major Major Major
@Chris T.: and then the news crews reporting on it were mugged during a live feed…
Han
@Tommy: Yeah, fuck the alligators!
NotMax
@Cervantes
She left to go away on vacation at a rather crucial pre-election time (September or October, IIRC) .
If that’s not a conscious choice, hard to say what is.
Joel
@different-church-lady: Clinton is no Coakley. Coakley couldn’t hold wide office in Massachusetts for goodness sakes. She’s the Calvin Schiraldi of politics.
different-church-lady
@Eric U.:
I find it hard to be amused by anything that goes on over there nowadays. I mean, these are the people who actually care deeply about making the world a better place through politics, and yet they act so damn dumb every time.
I understand the excitement, but at a certain point it’s gotta be tempered with reality as well, or else it just becomes a case of lying to yourself. They think they can enthuse Bernie into the White House. But as Adlai Stevenson famously pointed out, they need to convince people outside the base.
different-church-lady
@Chris T.: How many times was Dylan Roof deported?
Villago Delenda Est
Where has this jackass been the last 35 years? Bunking in Sleepy Hollow with Rip van Winkle?
It’s nothing but a sporting competition as far as the utter scum of the MSM are concerned, and frankly, this is the best situation possible for the offal that is the GOP field…airheads who can’t discuss actual policy without kowtowing to Jeebofascist dipshits.
magurakurin
@Zinsky:
Not sure that’s anything new. Change the technology and your quote sounds like something from a F. Scott Fitzgerald novel.
“The “look at me” cultured cultivated by radio and fashion magazines are turning Americans into self-indulged preeners who can’t think of anything beyond the next party at the speakeasy.”
different-church-lady
@Cervantes:
I don’t know if it was conscious or subconscious, but either way it’s what happened. Scott Brown got out into the state and told people why they should vote for him. Martha Coakley did not. Nothing mysterious about the results of that equation.
Tree With Water
@Eric U.: Right you are, this far out from the election. But there comes a point in time when big crowds are a portent of genuine momentum. In particular, I recall that being the case in ’92 with Clinton-Gore, much to my satisfaction.
different-church-lady
I should try (vainly) to clear up my comment: I did not mean to say Clinton is in danger of pulling a Coakley. I was trying to say that keeping your powder dry is not the same thing as failing to campaign. Clinton is currently doing the former, and at some point the powder is going to come out, long before it’s too late.
Cervantes
@NotMax:
Conscious choice I was doubtful about had two parts (and I quote from above): “this is going to be a walk so I’m not going to bother campaigning very hard.”
Did she go on a vacation because she felt the election was already won? Or because she hated campaigning? I’m really not sure why she did what she did.
different-church-lady
@Tree With Water: That was a slow wave, starting in the spring and building towards the convention. Closing strong instead of being a front-runner. Secretariat was always at the back of the pack going in to the first turn.
magurakurin
@different-church-lady:
I agree. Bernie is a cool dude, no doubt. But I question whether he wins the general, and the fact that he is talking about unilaterally disarming in the money race is worrisome. Fighting the good fight, really ain’t worth shit, if you lose. I also think Clinton will be a better president, but I imagine Bernie could manage well enough. He also has a chance to win the general with the GOP so weak. One thing that I will find very, very enjoyable if Bernie does win it all is the host of “Bernie sold us out” posts which will fill the DKOS diary list starting about 9 months after his victory. But I would like to add, if Bernie becomes president I am totally totally okay with that….I just don’t think he is the stronger candidate.
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
Sure, it’s what happened. I was just curious as to whether you perceived that it happened because she felt campaigning was unnecessary.
Enough about that.
Even a silent Martha Coakley would have made a better choice than a flatulent Scott Brown, and yet the latter won — so if mystery is what you want, there’s an eternal one!
@different-church-lady:
That’s clear to me, anyway.
Amir Khalid
@Cervantes:
A candidate taking off on vacation that close to the election tends to give off the message that she doesn’t really care about winning it, don’t you think?
different-church-lady
@magurakurin:
It would begin the moment he starts naming his cabinet.
magurakurin
@different-church-lady: you’re probably right…
different-church-lady
@Cervantes:
a) Low bar
b) Plenty of conservative voters in MA who don’t inherently see it that way.
c) Another Brown strength was the message he stayed on. He didn’t campaign on ideology. Instead he hammered home that he was going to represent Massachusetts. The message was local and direct, and it won out over a vacuum coming from the other side.
Major Major Major Major
@different-church-lady: I was about to say. I remember “obama sold us out!” right around “how about Rahm and Geithner?” during the transition.
And then he didn’t plug his ears and go “la la la” every time Summers spoke, and then the best-we-could-get stimulus was the biggest sell-out in history, and then …..
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Thank you. I’m all for excitement, it’s great, but I haven’t seen any polls that show what kind of strength Saners has in a general can’t help but notice that the two rallies that are getting the most internet boosterism are in states that have two of the Tea-Baggiest governors in the country, one has a Tea Bagger Senator, and the other can’t get rid of the wet dishrag that calls itself Senator Susan Collins.
I watching Sanders now, the American people understand that establishment politics and establishment economics don’t work for the middle class”. Then why is John Boehner our Speaker of the House? Why is Mitch McConnell running the Senate?
Also, too, is there a specific Stevenson quote or anecdote you’re referring to? “Alas, madam, I need a majority”?
Cervantes
@Amir Khalid:
It could be taken that way, and maybe was by many — sure, I agree.
Or maybe campaigning really made her feel “unclean” — I bet there’s a diagnosis for this condition! — and she felt she needed a break no matter the cost!
I’m kidding, of course, but not entirely.
magurakurin
I do, too, but I get a Huey Long/Father Coughlin vibe…not from Bernie at all….but rather from his supports. Too many seem to think the POTUS can do magic….
FlipYrWhig
@different-church-lady: Or the moment he shares a stage with a celebrity who’s done something obnoxious. Never forget Donnie McClurkin!
Cervantes
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m pretty sure you did not mean to suggest that the result of our elections truly reflect the understanding of the American people.
For one thing, not all the American people vote — and many don’t vote precisely because, right or wrong, they’ve abandoned “establishment politics and establishment economics.”
FlipYrWhig
@different-church-lady: Sometimes I think I’m the only one who remembers a rash of DKos diaries about how Elizabeth Warren was blowing the race against Brown, with all her missteps and lack of passion and inexperience.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cervantes: Oh, fuck off and die already
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@FlipYrWhig: Charlie Pierce was very pessimistic right up to the end, (ETA) more because of Brown’s personal story and “nice guy” persona. That’s why I’m starting to get nervous about Jebbie. I always thought Shrub was a smarmy douche, but if I didn’t know Jeb’s history, or like a lot voters, didn’t care, I might fall for his act
Major Major Major Major
@Cervantes: or, you know, 2010 and gerrymandering. Your explanation is more convenient for you though I imagine.
Cervantes
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Speaking of good health, you clearly need more fiber in your diet.
Cervantes
@Major Major Major Major:
Sure, that’s not unrelated.
No earthly idea what you’re talking about here.
Cervantes
@efgoldman:
Me, neither, for what that’s worth.
magurakurin
@efgoldman: well, it’s probably just paranoia…I worry too much. Bernie really is a super decent guy, I believe. I shouldn’t go over to DKOS…that’s probably my mistake.
Major Major Major Major
@Cervantes: a number of people try to blame low turnout on voters wanting different policies, which I guess I read into your last paragraph. In my experience most non-voters just can’t be bothered to care. Either out of hopelessness or “my life is good enough so whatever”-ism. They’re not rational choices, but in some strains of thought it’s convenient to just assume non-voters are waiting for something better. It displaces the blame from individual to system, so it’s easier to snipe without offering real solutions.
In my opinion. That’s what I read into your comment. Sorry if it was inaccurate.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@efgoldman: the lack of mention of the Schiavo case is one of the things that bothers me. Maybe people who work for Clinton have already figured out how to use it. But the Beltway remains infatuated with the idea of the “Northeastern Moderate” Republican who will bring the Social Security cuts they desperately desire without getting bogged down in all that tacky religiosity… like, the Schiavo case. His stumbling and bumbling around the Iraq question should have been disqualifying, but he already had Paul Wolfowitz –Paul Fucking Wolfowitz– listed as a foreign policy advisor. We didn’t, or shouldn’t have, needed to get to his three days of rhetorical slapstick to figure out he has no business in the White House.
ETA: I know a lot of people here don’t like Rachel Maddow’s long intros, but she did a recap of the Schiavo saga that had my head spinning all over again
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
That there (b) is the eternal mystery.
Cervantes
@Major Major Major Major:
Not a problem.
The “hopelessness” you’re talking about is observable in some non-voters — it’s real, and it’s arguably even rational in current conditions.
Major Major Major Major
@Cervantes: it’s just not the majority of the cases. Most non-voters think it’s too much of a hassle in my experience. This is where mail-in and stuff becomes really important.
We need to get the obama coalition to realize that midterms are really important and we need the same sort of machinery OFA has for midterms. For example. A lot of these people vote–every four years.
different-church-lady
@efgoldman: I would assume that as well as the fact that Walker is doing a hell of a lot of actual damage on the ground of his state at the moment.
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
That second bit is important, especially after the last “fast track” go-round.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: Earlier, I mentioned that HRC seems to have adopted the big picture view that Obama’s campaigns took. She has a plan and she is going with it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@efgoldman: Speaking of Scottie, Somebody oughta be able to make something out of this:
The flip-flopping may bring more attention than the original story, which I didn’t hear
Cervantes
@Major Major Major Major:
Well, if you want to make numerical arguments, try these numbers (they’re not perfect; they’ll do for my back-of-the-envelope calculations). Between 1984 and 2010, say, for each 100 people who could have voted in a mid-term but did not do so, more than 70 of them had not voted in the previous presidential, either.
(In any case I agree re the importance of the OFA model.)
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Walker has a couple of core principles (evil ones). For the rest, he is entirely for sale.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Union busting (or more broadly, just someone with a top-down economic viewpoint?) and theocracy? The latter is no shock, but it does strike me as kind of odd that someone with his (as I understand it) very humble background is more or less a Randian. Paul Ryan, for all the half-truths about his widowed maw, came from an upper-middle-class branch of a very rich family. And people like Reagan or Boehner made their money elsewhere before deciding they had a principled belief in small gov’t
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
Moore (“Scholar at the Heritage Foundation”) is almost an anagram for Walker (“Tragic Fountainhead tart? Oh, he loses.”)
And on that note, good-night.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Walker is the child of a preacher (Baptist? IIRC).
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: And?
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
If I may paraphrase the American philosopher Porky Pig, sometimes there is no “and.”