.
There’s a trope that’s been all over the media this week, and Ana Marie Cox took some flack in the last thread for posting a (quite sensible, actually) summary — “Bernie Sanders Is The Left’s Trump“:
… There is a lot they don’t have in common, including where they stand in their respective party’s polls—though Sanders’ slow creep into a distant second is likely to be more sustainable. Still, they have both managed to disrupt their respective nomination races, and they’ve done that because they both have a similar appeal: They’ve tapped into anti-establishment passions with rhetoric that is a kind of wish-fulfillment fantasy for some voters. “He has the guts to say what others won’t” could be the slogan for either of them.
I don’t want to gloss over the content of that gut-driven bluntness. In Trump’s case, just because he’s saying what others won’t doesn’t mean what he’s saying is true. And it’s fair to point out that Trump’s lowest-common-denominator xenophobia is a sugar high kind populism: it’s cheap and easily reproduced but difficult to sustain. Sanders, on the other hand, offers a chewier and less visceral version of “us-versus-them”: discussions about income inequality and financial regulatory policy don’t create the same kind of direct line to voters’ emotions that Trump’s talk of rapists and thieves travels on…
Indeed, there are those on both sides who long for a Trump-Sanders match-up. It would, on some level, be a battle of caricatures—as defined by the opposing side. And what about the Democrats who would love to see Trump get the nomination? And Republicans who’d like to see Sanders? They envision that contest as referendum more than an election, a chance to finally and fatally eject the other side from the political spectrum…
So: Hardcore Democrats want to fix what’s wrong, even if that’s going to be hard on everybody. Hardcore Repubs want to hurt everybody who is not them, or at least make a lot of noise threatening to do so. How is this not a true statement, at this point in time in our degraded commonweal?
JPL
You really should listen to this speech…
http://www.cbsnews.com/live/
Suzanne
I am here at the Trump rally. What a SHITSHOW.
Major Major Major Major
Mad thanks to J R in WV for leaving such a nice comment on my story.
So I’ve had this on my mind ever since I saw Jaws on the big screen the other day, and I finally just sat down and did it: What D&D level is the crew from Jaws?
Suzanne
He is just blathering about his business deals.
Suzanne
WHAT A TOTAL DICK.
sharl
@Suzanne: Yeah, business deals that the haters and losers could never manage!
#TweetLikeTrump
Steeplejack
Flacks take flak.
Kropadope
Sorry, Bernie doesn’t fit the caricatures. Not only is he a rather conservative socialist, but he is very detail oriented and understands the how government policy affects people, in hard numbers when needed.
Very nearly all the Republicans fit the “caricatures” (that’s being generous). So, I fail to see how the term caricature actually applies in their instance either.
Suzanne
Applause line: I just sued Univision for $500 million dollars.
BARF.
JPL
Suzanne, any idea about the sign.
Suzanne
Endless ripping on the Mexican government.
Betty Cracker
Trump is lying and Sanders is telling the truth, but aside from that, yeah, they’re playing similar roles in their respective party primaries.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I want my neighbor’s cow to die.
I saw a headline somewhere that Trump now says that the Mexican government is using him for… something. Made me wonder what excuse he’ll eventually use to drop out, cause it reminded me of Ross Perot’s complaint that his enemies were plotting to ruin his daughter’s wedding as revenge for his truth tellin’. “I tried to do somethin’ classy and hyooge for this country, but Carlos Slim is jealous of me, and spent a hyooge fortune to derail the love of the American people for Trump.”
OTOH, I can imagine Trump being nutty enough to go for it as an independent, precisely because if they piss him off enough, he would love to spend the next 4/8 years telling people he took Jeb Bush down/put Hillary in the White House, but I’m not gonna count on that chicken hatching.
Suzanne
No signs allowed in.
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I am in love with that sentence.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Suzanne: Hey, I could do that too. Winning is a bit different.
sharl
@Suzanne: Maybe not all of them are rapists, but were talking about just a few good ones.
#TweetLikeTrump
Suzanne
@BillinGlendaleCA: Exactly.
NotMax
You can’t spell Trump without rump.
lgerard
Jesus…Trump is like that loud boring uncle you had to listen to every Thanksgiving…telling the same stories over and over…..and he is always the hero
I CANNOT WAIT for the debates
Suzanne
The one black person onstage is there to talk about his son, who was apparently shot by an “illegal immigrant” (tRump’s words).
Anne Laurie
@Betty Cracker:
And lying isn’t the central Republican value? Telling the truth isn’t the “problem” for Democrats — like Kerry’s “I was for it before I was against it” or Mondale’s “If that’s the only way to solve America’s problems, I will raise taxes”?
The two men are in no way similar individuals, but their importance within their tribes says quite a lot about what those tribes consider… important.
Pogonip
@Major Major Major Major: Well, there goes the Bovine-American vote.
Suzanne
@lgerard: I want to boo, but there’s no policy proposals or viewpoints to boo. It’s seriously just dick-measuring.
JPL
CBS just cut away from trump so next time, they will be a target of his bullshit. All I can say is I hope that Suzanne has her drink of choice waiting for her when she gets home.
sharl
Had he not already pissed off so many potential customers, I could have envisioned some fast food company introducing The Hyooge & Classy, a triple-patty, mystery sauce-smothered burger, with The Donalde as pitchman. As something that would keep his #brand front-and-center, that would totally appeal to his ego.
Suzanne
Apparently President Obama once said, “Send me all your gangbangers.” If you believe this shit.
NotMax
@lgerard
He’s the poster boy for the campaign to find a cure for Ingrown Ego.
JPL
@Suzanne: Someone had unrolled a large sign and there was a slight scuffle, back on tv, you couldn’t see what it said.
I’m glad that CBS cut away, because he’s awful.
Pogonip
I didn’t get to the Thurston story till just now. Cole said they are working on “recall.”. What is recall? (“Thurston, what is the annual snowfall in Manitoba?”. “Well, um, I don’t recall for sure–but it’s less than in Boston!”)
Mike J
@Suzanne: A guy who went bankrupt in a business where people walk in the door, hand you money, and expect nothing in return, is telling people what a business genius he is.
Suzanne
@JPL: I couldn’t see it either, but there was a dust up.
Pogonip
@Suzanne: “Send me your tired, your poor, your guys who will work in my restaurant for two dollars an hour…”
lgerard
@Suzanne:
What are people doing?
They have been standing there for hours….for this?
Is there any WTF looks going on, or are these just true believers
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Pogonip: “Thurston, come…. THURSTON! goddammit, COME!... Shit! Thurston, LEAVE IT, GODDAMMIT! COME!… Oh shit….”
wasabi gasp
@Pogonip: Mustard memory.
sharl
@Suzanne:
Hahaha jesus, I can totally believe that shit, coming from him. Just curious – and I think I know the answer already – what do you think the Venn Diagram would look like of the people at that rally vs. supporters of Sheriff Joe?
Redshift
I wish! How many years have Republicans been running on anti-immigrant xenophobia, usually stated in more polite terms than Trump’s?
Note that Priebus reportedly just asked Trump to “tone it down,” not to stop the immigrant-bashing. They’re worried about losing the veneer that allows nice white people to convince themselves they’re not voting for a party of bigots. Actually not being a party of bigots isn’t being considered.
Another Holocene Human
Where the hell did they dig up this brain-damaged Black Republican they trotted out for the Trump-Arpaio hate rally?
I know he’s a Republican because he said Obama wants violent illegals here, when Obama has been deporting the fuck out of immigrants who commit violent crimes.
There was another tell where he fessed up that just about everyone he knows tells him he’s full of shit all the time.
And like a true GOPer, he didn’t seem terribly broken up about his son’s death. Instead, he ghoulishly uses it as his “testimony” to preach the word of nativism and draconian immigration policy.
Gross.
Suzanne
@lgerard: My mom and I are the only ones near us who don’t seen to be drinking the Koolaid. Lots of mouthbreathers.
“I’M KILLING EVERYBODY IN THE POLLS!”
lgerard
he is killing everybody on jobs!
he is killing everybody on leadership!
lol
Mike J
@Pogonip:
Schwarzenegger movie. “Get your dog to Mars!”
Another Holocene Human
@lgerard:
You know, if you live in Maricopa County and turn up for an Arpaio rally….
Kropadope
@sharl: Wouldn’t the more useful diagram be a set notation diagram?
debbie
@Suzanne:
Any guess at the size of the crowd?
Suzanne
HAHAHA some people here are talking about me, because I cheered for Sharpton and HRC. LMMFAO.
Another Holocene Human
This is horrible, but … I can’t help but notice that slightly yiddish cadence to some of Trump’s speech, especially when he gets chattier. He’s a New Yorker. I just hate to associate that with his vileness.
JPL
Trump reminds me of Sarah.
Suzanne
@debbie: 10,000? I can’t see the whole room very well.
shell
In his invitation to his official kick off to his presidential campaign, which he has been running for four and a half years, Scott Walker asks people to leave their guns at home:
Didnt TedCruz have a similar injucntion at one of his events…
debbie
@Mike J:
He’s gotten away with doing that 4 times so far. Monkey business is what he’s genius at.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Trump draws David Letterman out of retirement.
lgerard
@Suzanne:
quick
wave a confederate flag!
Another Holocene Human
@Suzanne: Stay safe. Seriously.
Suzanne
@lgerard: I don’t have one!!!
Another Holocene Human
@lgerard: Thank god my boring uncle was too douchey to make the trip!
Chris
@Kropadope:
Part of the realization I came to when becoming a liberal;
1) All the cliches and caricatures conservatives say about liberals are bullshit.
2) All the cliches and caricatures liberals say about conservatives… are true.
Botsplainer
I’m a Hill diehard, but like Bernie a lot.
To me, the left’s Trump is Alan Grayson. Those two are a perfect match.
Another Holocene Human
Okay, this is hilarious. Trump bullshits that the Iran deal is a disaster and the crowd interrupts yelling “Benghazi!”
lgerard
Is America’s most expensive sheriff there?
I’ve been watching the Mets beat up AZ’s baseball team
Redshift
@Suzanne: His schtick is nonstop unsubtle BS, a pure Gish Gallop campaign. (The “you can’t prove that” when challenged in facts in his NBC interview was a dead giveaway.) Yeah, the other GOP candidates lie almost as much, but they’re slightly constrained by the need to occasionally pretend they’re making a serious proposal. Trump just pulls everything out of his ass and insists that it’s absolutely true.
Since it’s BS, he doesn’t care if it’s true or not, so he might occasionally say something truthful by accident, but it’s safest to assume that nothing he says is true.
RSA
@Suzanne:
Thanks for taking one for the team.
Via Jalopnik, here’s a nice example of what Mexicans see of Americans: a drag race gone wrong. Completely irrelevant, but it made me laugh. I’ve started the video at 2:00, and it’s worth watching until 2:35 at least.
Another Holocene Human
@debbie: I love this talking trash about how JEB!, who got richer in and out of office, and Obama/Kerry don’t know how to negotiate.
Maybe it’s the ‘pretend your weakness is your strength’ gambit again.
Suzanne
@Another Holocene Human: My mom and I are in hysterics.
Mike J
@Suzanne: Their last flag was solid white. Should be easier to come up with.
Belafon
I would love to know if who everyone supports now versus who they supported in 2007/2008:
1. Supported Obama and now Sanders.
2. Supported Obama and now Clinton.
3. Supported Clinton and now Clinton.
4. Supported Clinton and now Sanders.
Related, regardless of which candidate you support/supported, are/were you a “whoever wins” or a “my candidate or I’m staying home”? Be honest and think real hard about your support in 2008.
I’ll start: Option 2 with “whoever wins” both times.
Edit: What I want is what you were saying at this time in 2007, not whether you actually stayed home.
Chris
@Suzanne:
The only role minorities have for Republicans is when they’re shitting on other minorities.
It’s why Herman Cain was so popular. He was the guy who joked about setting up electric fences to fry Mexicans who tried to get into the country and said he’d demand extra loyalty oaths from Muslims serving in the government under his administration. It went a long way towards forgiving his being black.
lgerard
I wonder how much he is paying his sign holders this time
Kay
Pundits should stop doing “THIS is like THIS other thing” so much.
The thing that bugs me about the Sanders commentary from Democrats is the “he won’t win so why is he trying?” tone. I hear again and again that we need people in every race, if I hear the “50 state strategy” one more time I am going to scream, yet when it comes down to it it’s all “just win, baby!”. Running more people means losing more. If a Sanders candidacy is just so loserish and doomed that no one can even bear the inefficiency of it (or whatever) how will Democrats handle the risk involved if we actually ran someone in every race?
Redshift
@Another Holocene Human: He’s from Queens, if that makes it any better.
Suzanne
Some chump just got mad at me because I booed Trump. MUAHAHAHA.
Another Holocene Human
@Belafon: Option 2 although I’m watching very closely because I want to vote Sanders in the primary as my protest vote, but not if the vote is close.
I’ll vote for the Democratic nominee in the general WHOEVER they are. Even Webb but it won’t be Webb. Go home, Webb.
The GOP has chosen evil. Not one, nowhere on the ticket.
? Martin
@Betty Cracker: Actually, both Trump and Sanders tell you what they think. Trump is wrong, but he really believes this crap. You don’t need to worry with either one where they really stand – they’re not going to try and sell you something they think is shit for the sake of getting some larger goal. They’ll tell you it’s shit and that it’s to get some larger goal.
I had this conversation with my mom this morning when she asked if I would vote for Bernie and I said absolutely. She was shocked. I told her that Congress would never permit him to get what he wants, so the magnitude of his positions don’t really matter that much in terms of what will be achieved, but that he’d be honest and force these topics to the front that we don’t want to debate. He may not win the debate, and in some cases probably shouldn’t, but the debate would be beneficial. By comparison Hillary/JEB!/etc. don’t want to have the debate if it’s bad politics.
I think this is why Trump is doing well with primary voters. He’s right on a number of things he’s said, that nobody else was willing to say – that if JEB! needs 5 days to sort out an answer to an obvious question, then he’s going to be fucking useless at dealing with a real crisis. I agree. He’s also right that nobody would be talking about immigration if it wasn’t for Trump. That too is correct – JEB! doesn’t want to talk about it, nor do any of the other Republicans. Trump is simply too fucking stupid and egotistical to not talk about it because he neither knows nor cares that he’s wrong. That’s actually a bit of a virtue in this case. But forcing these issues to be discussed is a virtue of both candidates that a lot of voters from both left and right want more than we necessarily want to sign on to specific policies that they espouse.
lgerard
He is now making even less sense then Palin
That health care plan he just proposed was hilarious
and the China thing!
They’re my tenant!
Another Holocene Human
@Chris:
THIS. He’s only up there because he hates Obama. His Obama hating statements got the cheers, btw.
Suzanne
@lgerard: None of this makes any sense.
Another Holocene Human
@Chris: I disagree. Herman Cain’s shtick was to dump on other Black people and shuck and jive old style in the way that flattered the sensibilities of older racist white people.
Allen West, now there’s somebody who appealed to the xenophobe. He not only is open about his Muslim hate and violent fantasies, he was all but cashiered out of the armed forces for carrying that shit out. They LOVE that guy.
The racists fell out of love with Cain the moment they found out he had this long term white girlfriend with average looks. It pissed them off. (It wasn’t the sexual harassment charges, bitches be lying and all that.)
Brachiator
This attempt to link Sanders and Trump is just stupid. The GOP loyalists have always been anti-illegal immigration, always been willing to hate and scapegoat Latinos, and various GOP candidates have been happy to do their best to appeal to them. The hardcore GOP loyalists don’t care whether they alienate Latino voters, and probably think that there can still be a way that the election can be won, even if it has to be stolen.
Some of Sanders’ supporters may be motivated by frustration at the supposed lack of purity in previous Democrats, but this is not the opposite side of Trump mania in any way. Hell, Sanders may be appealing to people who didn’t vote before, or who voted for Nader. Trump’s fools are part of the GOP core.
But we don’t know who Sanders supporters are because the press is too lazy and too stupid to actually talk to them in any detail. They would rather rely on polls and the stories they make up themselves. Nor have they spent that much time actually finding out what Sanders believes.
Curiously, we don’t even really know what Trump believes. He has no political track record. And we know he will shoot his mouth off and deliver juicy soundbites. But we also know that he doesn’t care if he contradicts himself or acknowledges the problems he is creating for himself. He is happy to be the most popular and loudest klown in the GOP Klown Kavalcade. The media eat it up. The GOP faithful eat it up. But when the circus moves on, there will just be a steaming pile of elephant turd to be cleaned up.
Suzanne
“I’m a very militaristic guy.”
Uh holy balls.
debbie
@Belafon:
Actually, 2008 was one of the few times I actually wanted who I voted for (Clinton being the other, but I wanted Obama more than Clinton). I’ve done a fair amount of voting for the lesser of two evils.
Another Holocene Human
@Suzanne: You’re a better person than me. I tap out. My ears are as hoarse as his voice at this point.
? Martin
@Suzanne: What he’s saying, or that he’s leading in the polls?
Suzanne
@Belafon: Probably I’m a OBAMA/Clinton person, but I love Bernie. I am voting strategically. I will vote for whomever.
Little Boots
ha, huh.
Suzanne
@? Martin: Blathering about Bowe Bergdahl. Now saying something about how we can’t sell meat, and suing Univision again.
lgerard
he is suing Univision AGAIN!!!!!
lgerard
again with Mexico “sending” people
Gene108
I wish I was there. I would try one up Trump from the crowd.
Build a wall on Mexican border? Hell No!!! Build a wall all over Mexico!
Villago Delenda Est
That’s reality, but that’s not the Narrative of the vermin of the Village. The vermin of the Village are saying “everybody does it” and giving the scum of the Rethug base a free pass.
lgerard
I keep thinking that if Trump had real hair, he would look a lot like Paul McCartney
Chris
@Another Holocene Human:
I think it was both, in Cain’s case, but you’re right that shitting on other black people was a huge deal for him as well, as opposed to West for whom the xenophobia is all there is to it.
I remember Cain’s scandals with white women too, and agree completely with your assessment.
Another Holocene Human
@Brachiator:
I would posit some ‘starts with R, ends with Ationalization’ on the part of these GOP loyalists who figure that legal immigrants all hate illegal immigrants (after all, some do and are involved in GOP politics) so if they just stop all those proverbial illegal immigrants from voting then they can win that elusive majority of the Latino vote after all.
Major Major Major Major
@Belafon: I supported/worked for Obama in 2008, Clintonbot now. I love Bernie, but ….well, he’s just not president material, I fear. And Hillary’s been doing a really good job this time around.
Brachiator
@Belafon:
I supported Obama. I still support Obama. Even with his flaws, he has been an exceptional president. I originally thought that Clinton was a fraud, and thought it absurd that she would actually think that just living in the White House as a presidential spouse was somehow a presidential apprenticeship.
I think she has shown me something as Secretary of State. Right now, she is my preferred candidate.
I still don’t know Sanders from a can of beans, but I look forward to seeing him campaign.
Bottom line, unless someone demonstrates something vile, I will vote for any Democrat. Period. End of issue.
However, even if he does well, but comes up short, I would not want to see a Clinton/Sanders ticket. I want to see a younger woman or man in the VP slot.
Another Holocene Human
@Villago Delenda Est: They sound like Ferengi. War is good for business. Peace is good for business.
lgerard
@Suzanne:
go down to the front of the crowd and try and get a lock of his hair!
Chris
@Brachiator:
This.
I did find it amazing, and blatant, how much attention the media was paying to Trump’s circus in contrast to Sanders. They really hate admitting that he exists or matters.
shell
Need a break from Trump-a-looza…
Movies tonight :
PBS at 9, the Last Picture Show
FXX: The original Karate Kid
Sf-Fy: The Great and Powerful Oz
TCM: Little Shop Around the Corner.
And on the NewsMax channel: Sarah Palin: Undefeated!
Little Boots
cause … joey:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdpTcvSn8HQ
lgerard
@Chris:
I can’t believe that the local Fox affiliate broadcast this live…..and they are still there
Another Holocene Human
@Suzanne: Yeah, I sure want to join the Army when 47% of the country is screaming that I should be left for dead if I fall into enemy hands.
WTF is wrong with these people.
Riggsveda
Cox writes: “Beck and others frame the prospect of two extremists as a contest of “visions” but both sides are actually color blind: Everything is black and white. One side is totally wrong; one side is totally right. This zero-sum mentality and vengeful nihilism threaten to turn government into just another WWE show, a cage match of ideologies.”
I challenge Cox or anyone who agrees with this drivel to provide examples of the left’s zero-sum mentality or vengeful nihilism. Seriously. Cough it up. She begins by criticizing the media for horserace coverage, then spews out this lazy “both sides do it” cliche. None of this helps the voters figure out what to do to make their country better. But it sure makes good clickbait.
Redshift
@? Martin:
I don’t know why you would believe that about Trump. When he ran for the Reform Party nomination, he was pro-choice and in favor of raising taxes on the rich. And there’s this: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/donald-trump-lied-to-us-119929.html#.VaGiiXPD_qA. On the contrary, there’s no evidence that he believes any of what he’s saying. He’s saying what his audience wants to hear, what works, and there’s every reason to believe that if one day he figured it that saying the exact opposite would work better, he’d turn on a fine and deny he ever said any of it.
The claim that no one was talking about immigration before Trump is more BS. Sure, Jeb! and Rubio don’t want to talk about it because they’re in the wrong side of it for primary voters. But the others have done plenty of taking against “amnesty” and “open borders.”
the Conster
@Another Holocene Human:
The GOP is a cargo cult.
sharl
@Suzanne:
I am enjoying immensely your masochistic accounts from the Short-Fingered Vulgarian’s Traveling Sideshow of Pain, but please be careful. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if a lot of those folks around you are racist asshole retired LEOs from various U.S. police departments.
I hope you or your mom don’t have Sheriff Joe and Steven Seagal crashing your front door down on some bullshit premise.
Brachiator
@Another Holocene Human:
Any GOP loyalist who believes this is a dope. Latinos, at least California Latinos, voted for Arnold because they thought he was a moderate. And he was not anti-Latino, still is not. But the mainstream GOP is anti-Latino, and Latinos have punished the California Republicans in election after election, beat them with a stick. I think the national mood among Latinos comes close to this.
When Trump says that Latinos will vote for him after the things he said, and any Republican believes this, their delusion is off the scale. There is no universe in which the GOP can win Latino voters, and I will be interesting to see if Trump has pushed the other candidates further to the right on immigration. We may see evidence of this in the debates.
Kay
They interviewed all three candidates- Clinton, Sanders and O’Malley. They want a real change of direction on education from Duncan’s approach and I (as is probably clear!) agree with them that a change is needed.
rikyrah
Serena Williams and the Fear of a Dominant Black Woman
………………………………………………………………..
No, because Serena Williams is a wildly successful black woman in a white-dominated sport, she occupies a fraught space both within the sport itself and the society actively informing our perceptions.
“American racist tropes tend to be constructed in ways that render black women one-dimensional,” says Mikki Kendall, a writer and cofounder of HoodFeminism.com. “So when Serena refuses to be the kindly self-effacing Mammy, the over-sexed Jezebel, or the harridan Sapphire, media organizations don’t know how to handle her. She is beautiful, strong, successful, and presents a model of femininity that is very familiar to black American communities, even if it is the antithesis of white expectations.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/10/serena-williams-and-the-fear-of-a-dominant-black-woman.html
Anne Laurie
@Pogonip:
Coming-when-called. Cole says, “Thurston, come!” (or “here!” or “to me!”) and Thurston stops investigating/running away/barking-at-squirrels and returns to Cole. Vital modern doggie skill, since the world is full of stuff that will get a dog in trouble if they don’t have (at least the vestiges) of what the trainers call “automatic recall”, where your dog consistently comes back to you even if they’re doing something much, much more interesting.
It’s really hard for dogs to internalize this idea, and some of them are never “reliable” on recall. I’ve known trainers with “difficult” dogs (beagles, sight hounds, sled dogs) who preferred to work on “auto drop” — so when they yell “DOWN” the dog stops what they’re doing and lies down. The idea being that a dog who stops & stays in one place is somewhat less liable to get killed than one who’s darting between cars (my first trainer swore this once saved her beagle’s life) or dashing out into traffic or challenging a much bigger/fiercer dog to a fight.
But (for obvious reasons) it’s easier to get a puppy to come back to you, especially if you are careful to always reward him for coming back (and never call him back only to yell at/punish him). So Thurston’s off to a good start.
Kropadope
@Redshift:
Then, of course, there are the Democrats talking about comprehensive immigration reform.
rikyrah
Donald Trump is NOT talking to a ‘sliver’ of the GOP.
HE IS TALKING DIRECTLY TO THE GOP BASE.
He is feeding them filet mignon.
But, he’s doing it in non-Frank Lunz approved language.
Which is why he’s in trouble.
He’s showing EXACTLY what the heart and soul of the Republican Party is..
YES…it is that ugly
YES…it is that racist.
YES…it is that inhumane..
THAT IS WHO THEY ARE.
And, because he’s being so DIRECT about it, the MSM can’t cover for him, as they usually do, when they ignore the dogwhistles, or pretend that those who hear the dogwhistles loud and clear are just ‘imagining things’.
Kay
@Riggsveda:
It’s weird to me because Sanders is running such a civil campaign. It’s truly as if they aren’t listening to him. The piece is about “caricatures” but she’s wholly indulging in one. The last big thing he did in the Senate was compromise with the GOP to protect the VA. They all missed that?
Little Boots
@the Conster:
This.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Riggsveda: Good god, that’s lazier and sillier than I was expecting. The other day on (I think) the Lawrence O’Donnell show someone was trying to push the idea that the rumored feud between Obama and Warren has gotten “personal”, other guests pushed back on that. Chris Hayes compared Obama unfavorably to Nixon at the height of the Snowden affair. I’m pretty much an O-bot’s O-bot and I wish he weren’t so willing to go along with the NSA-CIA culture.
You only have to look at Trump and the whole COP infighting about immigration, from Boehner to the Chamber of Commerce to McCain vs McCain (build the dang fence!) to see how the Republican party has become a punching bag for the monster it created.
debbie
@Riggsveda:
Glenn Beck’s an idiot. Bit by bit, he’s becoming disenchanted with all of the candidates, even Cruz. If we’re lucky, he may decide to run.
Another Holocene Human
@rikyrah: It’s a fucking Bund rally and the only saving grace for the GOP is that most people have better things to do on a Saturday night.
And the internet blows up enough the media will be forced to cover something on Monday.
Patrick
@Riggsveda:
Any pundit or journalist that claims “both sides do it” is lazy, and has automatically lost credibility and deserves to be fired. Without providing proper context, they should not be in the news business.
Another Holocene Human
@debbie: Beck is unmedicated. We used to have this unmedicated lady in town who would walk everywhere. One by one she would decide that she didn’t trust this or that bus driver until she had rejected every driver in her part of town. So she walked.
(She later committed a felony and was sent to a facility and apparently is doing better now although not like her life was before mental illness.)
Matt McIrvin
@Belafon: In 2007/08: Supported Obama and “whichever Democrat wins”, of course.
Now: Will think about who to support based on what I think the strategic situation is around primary time. I could vote for either Sanders or Clinton without being greatly upset about it. In terms of policy preferences I am probably a slightly closer match to Sanders than to Clinton, but the way many of his vocal supporters consider Hillary Clinton the main enemy worries me.
And come November, I consider it more crucial then ever to support the nominee.
Germy Shoemangler
The latest Batman V Superman extended trailer just launched at Comic Con
Jessie Eisenberg may be the best Lex Luthor ever. And we finally see Wonder Woman.
Redshift
@Belafon: I was Obama in ’08 (actually Edwards first, sigh.) I would have worked my ass off for any of them.
I’m still uncommitted this time. I like both of Clinton and Sanders, and I’ll again work my ass off for whoever is nominated.
Little Boots
it’s a weird world. miss everyone.
Another Holocene Human
@rikyrah: From watching white racists for most of my life I feel it’s more along the lines of “I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
So Michelle Obama is fat, Serena Williams is rude, Valerie Jarrett is uppity and unqualified, round and round with the same old ugly stereotypes of ignorance, gluttony, narcissism. Huh, sounds like a lot of white supremacists I know. Anyhoo.
Pogonip
Has Trump brought up the issue of Columba (Mrs. Jeb) Bush? There’s plenty of video of her being the political wife in Spanish, but none of her speaking English in public. If she speaks no English, or only a few words, this would make her naturalized citizenship illegal. One of the requirements is that you be able to speak, read, and write English on a basic level. My aunts, both of whom naturalized around 1980, had to take a test proving they could at least read signs, have basic chats, e.g. the weather, shop, rent a house, that sort of thing. If Columba Bush can do any of that in English, there’s no evidence of it.
Another Holocene Human
@Germy Shoemangler: Better than the TV shows? (Smallville does not count, dammit.)
Another Holocene Human
@Pogonip: Trump took an ugly swipe at her on twitter.
Pogonip
@Redshift: You were Obama in ’08? Was he Redshift?
J R in WV
@Kay:
Yes. I have a lot of high regard for the President, but I don’t know why he lets that boob run Education for the feds. Just a lame stupid guy, with no idea what to do to improve actual teaching to actual students.
No creativity, no vision, no direction, just putting in the days until someone else gets the job.
lgerard
Some one keeps posting TRUMP/ZIMMERMAN 2016 in the chat box
I assume they are joking
The Pale Scot
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
What did the cow ever do to you?
(I know I’m missing something)
debbie
@rikyrah:
As someone who used to play tennis, Serena Williams is f’ing awesome. She can’t mop up the floor with Sharapova often enough for my liking.
Another Holocene Human
@Brachiator:
In total agreement. Anything else I say would be extremely scatalogical, so let me just say DREAM Act. DREAM Act. You stupid fuckers. DREAM Act.
Another Holocene Human
rikyrah, what is a Sapphire?
Kay
I’m for this:
I don’t even think the specific policies she outlines matter that much. She just needs to convince people that she gets it, and offer something less abstract than “the opportunity agenda” because that’s clearly the GOP talking point.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/us/politics/hillary-clinton-to-outline-economic-policy-on-monday.html?referrer=
Davis X. Machina
@J R in WV:
Because it’s an important and wealthy Democratic constituency — people who watch TED talks the way the Tehadis watch Fox.
Education ‘reformers’ are about the only group of hi-tech types who aren’t pedal-to-the-medal libertarians. There are deep pockets involved. And they provide a veneer of modernity. And something to point to when people say you’re in the pocket of the unions.
I don’t like ’em. They’re trying to put me and my wife on an unemployment line for starters.
But they’re real.
Pogonip
@Another Holocene Human: Well, I don’t think he should pick on her personally, but wondering whether the Bushes ignored the law yet again, naturalization law in this case, would not, in my opinion, be amiss.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@The Pale Scot: old joke about Russian peasants that has a lot of variations, here’s a short tone
the modern Republican has become that Russian peasant, they just want Obama’s (my, your, Clinton’s) cow to die.
Davis X. Machina
@Kay: Watch the usual internet suspects…
Her proposals will be blasted from the left within seconds because a focus on the middle class obviously means selling out the poor.
Gimlet
@Suzanne:
Any panties up on stage yet?
Pogonip
@Anne Laurie: Hear, hear. If your dog learns nothing else, he should learn always to come when called.
Little Boots
someone should start thread.
Kay
@J R in WV:
He’s already basically gone. His family are already back in Chicago. The new NCLB puts a brake on a lot of his policies. He had almost extraordinary power because Congress didn’t do their job and renew NCLB which meant Duncan issued “waivers” to get around the ridiculously draconian sanctions in NCLB. The waivers were contingent on adopting Duncan’s whole agenda so states ended up with policy essentially created by Duncan and the ed reform “movement” people he surrounded himself with. He also had a huge tranche of stimulus money so he had a lot of power. States were desperate for funding and he was the guy with the big bankroll. It was over-reach but Congress let it happen. The executive branch only gets outsize power when Congress gives it away.
Kropadope
@J R in WV:
I don’t know a whole lot about what he actually did in office, but one of the articles I read about his goals for the education system said that he wanted public education facilities to be generally available to people of all ages; including expanded extracurricular options for the kids and training for adults to modernize their skill set but not put them massively in debt.
I don’t see that a whole lot of that done, but it seems like a worthy vision.
Germy Shoemangler
@Another Holocene Human: what is a Sapphire?
Little Boots
@Germy Shoemangler:
wasn’t there an ABW round these parts, once upon a time?
SFAW
@Gimlet:
Couple of possible responses:
1) Yes, but The Donald is wearing them.
2) No, because Suzanne’s boos got the Rethugs’ panties all in a bunch
lgerard
trump just upped his estimate if the crowd to 20,000
ha ha
J R in WV
@Davis X. Machina:
Well, I understand some of what you say… Best of luck with your careers, whatever the ed reformers are trying to do is wrong if it means firing people dedicated to educating people.
I’m glad I never got caught up in teaching. I have a good friend who is a special ed expert, and used to be the county-wide consultant for teachers having a problem with kids in that category. Then she started a business helping kids outside the system, which went well, except she wasn’t a good businesswoman.
Then she got recruited to teach at a school a friend was principle at. I know this because she called me to ask that I come out to do a geology/rockhound talk with kids on her “big dream day” It was big fun, got to meet her principle, who was great.
but now the principle needs to move, her husband got transferred. I’m thinking the school, which was full of kids having fun learning stuff, might turn into a prison for little people who must do as they are told all day. My friend won’t be able to deal with that kind of school for very long.
Now she can take her newest little dog to work with her, and the dog (very small) stays in the office mostly, unless she wants to run around some, which is OK with everybody.
Imagine that with an authoritarian principle!? not gonna happen.
Kay
@Davis X. Machina:
She’ll be fine if they’ll let her be what she is, which is practical and persistent. I’m not going to caucus as a delegate here because I already agreed to help a younger woman. She’ll be a Clinton delegate. I think it will be fun because only like 1 out of 50 people plan any kind of “campaign” for our delegate caucus (which goes by congressional district) so it should be pretty easy to win. A stealth campaign :)
Germy Shoemangler
@Another Holocene Human: Better than the TV shows? (Smallville does not count, dammit.)
I believe so, yes. And Jeremy Irons looks and sounds excellent as Alfred Pennyworth, Bruce Wayne’s butler.
JPL
Is Trump still bloviating?
SFAW
@lgerard:
Yeah, but that’s in lira/lire.
Another Holocene Human
@Germy Shoemangler: Ah, the mother of the sassy Black woman/sassy Black friend.
Speaking of which, ever notice how white posters on discussion forums love to post gifs of sassy Black people doing the finger motion, etcet? And some of them claim to be liberals. Things that make you go hmmmm.
eta: forgot to say, that was servicey, Germy, thank you
Little Boots
ya know what?
need, omnes, or steeplejack, or billin.
debbie
@Another Holocene Human:
never mind.
Suzanne
I’m home now. The event was peaceful. I pissed off people for cheering for Al Sharpton and for booing when Trump said he wanted to increase the size of the military. I’m hungry.
Bernie Sanders next week!
Gvg
I am pretty sure Columba Bush speaks English just fine but Jeb is a republican politician and their base has been getting worse on anti immigrants for some time so I suspect strategically they choose to not show her off. In addition quite a few politicians spouses have not enjoyed the public eye and I have the impression from when he was governor that she was one of those. I would hate that kind of life myself so I may be biased in interpreting what I’ve read.
I wouldn’t support enforcing that kind of law anyway. Historically immigrants have usually not spoken English well the first generation and we have been fine. such a law is just more bigotry.
what is a sapphire? I didn’t recognize the term.
debbie
@Suzanne:
Glad you’ re safe. The silence was worrying, what with all those bitter Whites.
Kay
@Kropadope:
That may have been his goal but that isn’t what he funded. What he mostly funded was data collection, various measurement schemes, and a whole lotta management-speak on “outputs not inputs” and “excellence” rather than “mediocrity”. My poor sort of goofy and eager to please 6th grader has been measured to within an inch of his life. He took an assessment last spring that was longer than the bar exam. The results will exactly track the grades he got and what his teachers say about him, because they do every year.
Suzanne
@debbie: Eh. They are all hat and no cattle.
Another Holocene Human
@Pogonip: He attacked her for something she actually did, but it was gross. Just gross.
Baud
@Suzanne:
We need to get you a special BJ press pass.
SFAW
@Suzanne:
You didn’t tell us you were in Crawford.
Suzanne
@SFAW: Phoenix is close enough.
Actually, all these chumps were very suburban. Phoenix itself is pretty damn liberal. Mayor Stanton is a great guy and I hope he has a great future in politics.
Davis X. Machina
@Kay: That kind of management porn has to be seen to be produced somewhere in the administration so a key constituency of the larger party doesn’t feel like it’s being ignored.
If you deliver affordable health care for all, but no one’s out there leveraging core competencies and proactively delivering radical new paradigms, a lot of people who fund things have a sad.
Coalition politics ain’t pretty
Little Boots
anger?
Cervantes
@Riggsveda:
She made her name writing scurrilous (sorry, “funny”) pieces about adultery and anal sex in DC. Perhaps she was qualified to write about that, I can’t say.
In this case is it the headline that’s at fault, or does the nonsense permeate her text? From your comment I’m guessing it’s closer to the latter.
Germy Shoemangler
@Baud: We need to get you a special BJ press pass.
And a fedora with a wide band, to tuck the press pass in.
One for Elizabelle too; she attended a Sanders rally.
Another Holocene Human
What happened tonight, that was straight up fascism. “A racially united nation with peace at home can be yours, if only you agree to violently and ruthlessly root out the illegal alien in your midst.”
JPL
@Suzanne: My stream cut of when the Donald introduced the man who lost his son. Thanks for the updates.
Another Holocene Human
Twitter is comparing Trump to Mussolini.
SFAW
@Another Holocene Human:
Well that’s because Donald got the New York Subway to run on time, no doubt. Which was YOOGE. But not classy.
debbie
@Another Holocene Human:
Yes! All that strutting and tough guy talk. Look how he ended up.
Baud
@Germy Shoemangler:
Still waiting for Elizabelle’s report.
PurpleGirl
@Mike J: We must be clear — It’s Trump’s cas1nos that have declared bankrutcy. He hasn’t declared a personal bankruptcy yet. But it should be pointed out that yes, he isn’t a good businessman and look at how he has conducted business.
Germy Shoemangler
@Another Holocene Human: when I see brief clips of Trump with his exaggerated facial expressions, puffing his cheeks and jutting his jaw and waving his arms, I flash back to Il Duce.
Little Boots
oh can’t you see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCXQycyN_Vs
Kay
@Davis X. Machina:
I was trying to figure out if Duncan is getting the TAA money. I hope not. First, he’ll measure all the welders! Then rank the welding programs! Then put the courses online in a public-private partnership with Khan Academy!
I hope it all goes to the Dept of Labor and community colleges. No more money for him.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
Thanks for taking one for the team.
Not that I would have asked anyone to do that, there aren’t enough fire hoses (nor water here) to wash off the donald stench.
catclub
@? Martin:
In the very unlikely event he gets elected, …. maybe. I suspect however, from watching Obama, that talking a lot about things you cannot actually act effectively on, looks indistinguishable from whining. Obama definitely hates to seem to be whining, and I bet anyone else who gets elected president, would too.
Davis X. Machina
@Kay: The long and short is, business/business administration is the most popular college major in the country, and every academic discipline is only partly stuff to know — its also a way to be.
There are a lot of anythings — left-handers, Methodists, softball players — for whom this is their Weltanschauung. Management pays their bills, feeds the kids… A lot of Democrats, too. Three of my brothers qualify. (Banking, insurance, plastics manufacturing…)
Kropadope
@Kay: That’s unfortunate. They started with this whole high-stakes testing business inMA a couple years after I graduated. I never thought it would serve the students or the teachers well, but metrics are so important to some people. It’s sad. Also, while I think the sort of program I described above would be lovely, good luck getting such a thing through Congress.
Baud
@Davis X. Machina:
Modern day feudalism in some respects.
Pogonip
@Gvg: Resolved, there should not be a law requiring immigrants to have minimal fluency in the national tongue and Resolved, Bushes should be exempt from all laws are two different debates.
I never have understood why people get worked up about the U.S. having a national language. Why not? Some countries have 3. I think it would be logical for the U.S. to have two, English and Spanish.
Mike J
@Davis X. Machina: And while much of it is nonsense, and all of it is taken to extremes, there are kernels of good ideas in it. Being able to measure things is generally a good way to know if things are getting better or worse. Knowing what to measure to get that information is the tricky part.
wasabi gasp
Feels like I missed something big. He should do a wingnut woodstock or a Trumpalooza or something. Be there and be square.
Baud
@Mike J:
Also appreciating that some things are hard to measure.
Germy Shoemangler
@efgoldman: One night I found myself in a traffic jam. Turned on the car radio and listened to some RW talk radio host I’d never heard before. I can’t remember his name. He’s the one that was seen coming out of a gay bar.
Anyway, he played a few “comedy” bits from a white guy who specializes in imitating a loud black woman. I don’t remember that guy’s name either. But the show was nasty and disgusting.
The stereotype is alive and well. And if a black woman anywhere dares to speak above a whisper, she’ll be hit over the head with it.
Mike J
@Davis X. Machina: And while you’re here, what’s going to happen since your gov has decided laws are for little people? There’s not supposed to be this much drama/lulz coming out of Maine.
raven
Ernestine Wade (August 7, 1906 – April 15, 1983) was an African American actress who is best known for playing the role of Sapphire Stevens on the radio and television program Amos ‘n Andy.
rikyrah
@Pogonip:
She’s been married to Jeb for forever and a day. I’m sure she knows how to speak English.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
Only for HRC campaign events and ONLY if Bill is there.
rikyrah
@Another Holocene Human:
Another Holocene Human
@Kropadope: They already had assessment tests that didn’t disrupt the course of education. They already knew which school districts were struggling. They took money away from other programs to buy these expensive tests and make some grifters rich. That crap was brought in by some slickster from Texas. Guess Texas was feeling envious about our superior schools and decided to fuck them up for shits and giggles.
rikyrah
@Kay:
As a Barack Obama supporter, I say, and have said, without hesitation, that Duncan was THE WORST CABINET CHOICE OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.
Period.
Kay
@Davis X. Machina:
You’re a much nicer person than me. I hate-read his speeches. I wait for the quote from Tom Friedman or “The Smartest Kids in the World” or whatever the current fad is and it’s always there. I was watching a documentary and there was a clip of the “Smartest Kids in the World” author in her former life as a general magazine journalist. I was thinking “why is this person now directing US education? One book? That’s all it takes?”
Another Holocene Human
@rikyrah: Thanks.
Pogonip
We can has new topic please? I want to ask about a book.
Baud
@Kay:
Even Jesus needed four gospels.
Kropadope
@Pogonip:
I don’t really see the purpose to a national language, as people will speak what they’re going to speak and manage the best they can. Still, regardless of there being an official national language, people will better navigate American society and will better be able to protect their personal rights if they have a working knowledge of the English language. I don’t think it should be required but, as with anything educational, it should be available to whoever wants it.
BillinGlendaleCA
@rikyrah: Well, JEB! sometimes does have problems with English. And remember his smarter brother W.
lgerard
@Suzanne:
I am glad you made it back
when you disappeared I though you either died of boredom or were deported to Mexico
Get some rest and drink plenty of fluids
I once went to a Sarah Palin rally and had vertigo for 3 days from the cognitive dissonance
JPL
There’s not a republican who will challenge Trump, because they know that he will get on stage and destroy them.
Who are they going to recruit to slow him down?
Another Holocene Human
@Germy Shoemangler: Fuck. I vaguely feel like I know who you’re talking about.
Apparently Julius Streicher-level race baiting isn’t too offensive for the FCC. Black lady’s boobie, though, all the fines.
Iowa Old Lady
@Another Holocene Human: My DIL is a first grade teacher in a Chicago suburb, and what she objects to is the amount of time lost to testing. Between state and national tests, her students spend about a month/school year doing tests instead of learning stuff.
Matt McIrvin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The Russians already produced a bunch of the greatest composers, novelists, poets and scientists, so they could afford a little cow-resentment on the side.
Anne Laurie
@Little Boots: Too early in the evening. Come back around 11-ish.
Kropadope
@Another Holocene Human:
Well, given that they seem intent on fucking up their own education system also, the potential downward spiral that implies is very concerning.
Another Holocene Human
@Kropadope: You’ve identified the hypocrisy here. I’ve watched Republicans cut funds for free ESOL for Adults programs.
As for an official language, Algonquin, Cherokee, and Ojibwe are all top contenders … but they have nothing on the patriotic heritage of Navaho.
In all seriousness, I, for one, welcome our new Mexican overlords. (And Puerto Rican, and Dominican, and Honduran…) What’s the big deal about being conversant in two languages? Swiss people do it. Chinese people do it. Indian people do it. Are we just too stupid and chickenshit as a nation?
HR Progressive
The only way Bernie Sanders would be “The Left’s Trump” is if he were standing up on the stump and saying truly ridiculous things, that might sound like:
“We need to seize the assets of everyone who has over a million dollars net worth and distribute them to all the poor and the needy!”
“I will immediately, and unilaterally, declare all private ownership of firearms illegal, and will seize them as such.”
“My foreign policy will consist of withdrawing all troops from all foreign lands immediately, I will close every military base, and we will use those funds back home to repair all of our crumbling infrastructure!”
Such statements above would undoubtedly enthuse a decent portion of the lefter side of the spectrum, but would any of these things actually happen? Hell no. And frankly, even as someone who thinks Jamie Dimon needs to be in jail, the NRA should be disbanded, and we need to unbloat and un-war our military a bit, I would not agree to any of those positions if they were espoused like that.
Glidwrith
@Another Holocene Human: Holy shit! Please tell me that is a paraphrase and not a direct quote?
I’ve been thinking we were due for someone like this (Cruz, Walker), but never thought a buffoon like Trump would be the one.
Another Holocene Human
@Kropadope: I was watching cable news when GWB proposed NCLB just a couple years later. This asshat from Texas was stating with a straight face that Texas schools were superior to CT schools (the best in the nation) because, get this, poor Black kids in Hartford underperform rich white kids in Darien but in Texas educational attainment is so bad that white and Black students alike make almost the same terrible scores.
That’s it! Make the schools suck so much that you can’t distinguish bad from worse!
Another Holocene Human
@Glidwrith: It was a paraphrase from Trump and Jamiel Shaw’s song and dance routine.
Another Holocene Human
@Iowa Old Lady: The tests are a scam. In 20 years tests will be a dirty word.
As the for profit testing regime has escalated, scores on standardized tests have gone up. The drop-out rate has fallen.
Big fat grift is big and fat.
Kropadope
@Another Holocene Human:
I’m trying to achieve bilingual-ity, but am so rusty from when I last studied Spanish 12 years ago. Progress is slow, but I got some amazing advice from Sonia Sotomayor. She said she became fluent in English by reading children’s books, so I have a few Spanish language books for young children and middle-readers. It’s slow going, but I hope it pays off.
HinTN
@Kay: Preach it, sister. I like Bernie, I’ll vote for him in the TN primary, and I’ll work work hard for Hillary in the general. We gotta start running in ask the races!
Chris
@HR Progressive:
Shit. I’d vote for that.
Shit. I’d vote for that.
Maybe not all of that, but the last part’s pretty good and I’d be good with going at least some way towards the earlier parts.
Cacti
I was just thinking the other day that if Trump would only drop a couple of racial slurs at the first GOP debate, he’d have the nomination locked up.
This may be the election where we see the GOP morph from proto-fascist party into a fully fascist one.
Davis X. Machina
@Another Holocene Human: Grifts need marks. Scientific management in this country is pretty much a religion — and it’s non-/bi-partisan. (Reinventing Government, anyone?)
Suzanne
@lgerard: Ironically, I got back from Mexico on Thursday.
Thor Heyerdahl
@debbie: Hanging dead upside down at a Standard Oil filling station.
The Fat Kate Middleton
@Anne Laurie: OK, I get this about the recall command, and like the “DOWN” substitute – but what can be done about a seven-year-old rescue dog (Shi-Tzu), beautifully trained in all kinds of way, who will NOT respond to recall? Another round of training?
Little Boots
can we, cause, elton, despite omnes being all angry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrLkTZrPZA4
Anne Laurie
@Pogonip:
But Mandarin/Cantonese speakers could make a strong argument for being a third — if not the second. And there’s plenty of “pockets” where an immigrant can still get along just fine in French/Sicilian/Portugese/German/Hmong/Laotian/Haitian Creole/Vietnamese/approximately 98 others. That’s the global argument against having a “national” language: Once you start separating “Speakers of the national tongue” against “All those who are not our tribe,” you enable — however innocently — a lot of ugly tribalism.
There’s an important difference between “We’re Americans, and mostly we speak/write (our own variety of) English” and “We’re the people who speak the national language, which is American, like us.” Because the other side of that last sentence is “… and if you don’t speak in our tongue, you’re not American, really.”
ETA: India has 22 “officially recognized” languages. This hasn’t stopped bitter arguments about even the two most commonly used in official documents (English & Hindi), much less kept people from attacking each other over who’s using the “correct” language…
Glidwrith
@Kropadope: Bilingual is great and I am a firm believer that command of language is one of the necessary elements for success. However, I have noticed that whenever the idea of a national language starts gaining attention, that the most vile of racists and white supremacists are leading proponents of the change. I think the best solution is what is available in some places: free language lessons. It would be nice to have non-English lessons available as well.
ETA: D’oh! Beaten by one comment above by Anne Laurie!
Davis X. Machina
@Mike J: No recall provision in state constitution. Impeachment seems a bit of a lift — there are enough crossover R’s to pass a budget, and over-ride the more egregious vetoes, but impeach-and-remove? I’m not so sure.
Maine has no allies embroiled in a Middle Eastern shooting war, and no nukes. Apart from that, it’s October 1973 all over again, with lobsters.
Davis X. Machina
@Anne Laurie: I don’t see the need for any. The Roman empire was polyglot — officially bl-lingual, but no organized efforts to prune the list to two. Chinese empires were more polyglot than people think. Prestige, job prospects, culture. and such, do more to make a language ‘official’ than any state actions.
The Fat Kate Middleton
@J R in WV: Agree. At the same time I’m baffled that Obama still has this guy as DOE head, I also recognize that college instructors (as O was) often don’t recognize or implement teaching strategies that have been proven to improve their students’ learning. I still take the occasional college course, and am shocked at how many teachers still think “sage on the stage” is the only way to teach. But Arne Duncan? Really? Please, homey.
Pogonip
@Kropadope: A person who speaks 3 languages is called trilingual. A person who speaks 2languages is called bilingual. A person who speaks 1 language is called an American.
Something I’ve found helpful: the next time you’re in a used bookstore and you see a title in Spanish that you already own in English, buy it, and read them side by side.
gelfling545
@Suzanne: I know some folks who work in refugee resettlement. They’ve told me that a big problem is that an unfortunately large number of folks believe that immigrant must mean illegal.
Little Boots
this place. I might need to post, and then omnes will be angry,
Germy Shoemangler
@Little Boots: I just have one question:
What is this thing called love?
Davis X. Machina
@efgoldman:
This whole mishegas just shows how bankrupt politics is, and therefore just how right they were. The way to improve politics is to a.) get rid of parties, b.) get rid of politicians, c.) get rid of politics. At this point the biens pensants will deign to run things for us out of pure public-spiritedness.
The Fat Kate Middleton
@Kay:
Ohhh …very interesting. I haven’t kept up since retiring. This is good to hear … now I want to hear that those so-called ‘school reformers’ are almost universally recognized as the grifters they are. And, yes, they are after teachers’ jobs.
Kropadope
@Pogonip: You know what? I actually tried to avoid that when I first embarked on this plan, thinking things written originally in Spanish would be better, given that things are often lost in translation. However, when you said that, it just made so much sense.
Cervantes
@Glidwrith:
Them, and people whose English is mediocre at best.
Kropadope
@Cervantes:
I think they’re mostly one and the same, but still, the commenter speaks the truth.
Calouste
@gelfling545:
FTFY.
Thor Heyerdahl
@Cervantes: This isn’t just an American problem. I’ll hazard to say that many UKIP supporters in the UK, or PEGIDA supporters in Germany are both racist and speak one language – often not that well.
Cacti
Suzanne, you have my sympathy.
As a recent escapee of Maricopa County, I can only imagine the sort of human debris that showed up for the Donald’s Nuremberg rally.
Kropadope
@Cacti:
I hope for your sake that Sheriff Arpaio doesn’t read BJ.
Anne Laurie
@The Fat Kate Middleton:
Seriously? Keep him on lead, when he’s not in a securely fenced area (& depending on his level of escape skills, that means no gaps larger than your fist).
If he’s just not sufficiently acquainted with the recall, try working him on a progressively longer “line” (start with a 4ft lead, go to a 6ft lead, then to lengths of nylon cord), using really desirable goodies to get him back to you. I don’t mean ‘the good milkbones’, use something he really craves. Standard around here is little bits of hot dogs, nuked to leather consistency, but some trainers swear by bits of chicken breast or hard cheese or even roast beef. Try switching up treats, if he doesn’t react well to the one you try first.
Some dogs, especially rescue dogs, have bad memories of responding to the word “come” and then being punished for running away. So you may want to pick out another word/phrase, like To me or even Recall, to use as the Magic Word that you’re training him to think of as “c’mere and get the Good Stuff”. I knew one rescue poodle who only responded to “Rascal, chicken!” — he’d (eventually) cooperate for an ordinary treat, or sometimes just cuz he was feeling generous, but his word for “recall” was “chicken”.
And some dogs just have the runrunrun glitch in their brains… for whatever combination of genetics/environment, they will never be trustworthy off-lead. It should not come as a surprise that an above-average percentage of rescue dogs have that glitch (she said bitterly). Do your best, work with your guy, but in the end, sometimes you just have to accept that there’s “issues” which can’t be fixed.
Jeffro
@Cacti: I think the DNC should start a ‘thank you’ campaign for The Donald – maybe have a contest for the best essay, poster, or YouTube video thanking him for clarifying the very real differences between the two parties. He must have already saved the Dems $50M in general issue advertising.
Cacti
@Jeffro:
I see Trump becoming the Barry Goldwater of 2016. He knows just where the sweet spot is with the crazies who show up for the GOP primary.
Kropadope
@Jeffro: I’m wondering if this isn’t all just a stunt by Trump to pull the id of the Republican party to the surface, especially given the left positioning of his last presidential run. However, maybe that’s just him judging where there’s a market. The Dems most likely won’t nominate someone with no government experience. So, the Rs it is.
NotMax
@sharl
27% might correctly identify “Sheriff Joe.”
10% would fall into Not Sure/Don’t Know. The remainder would identify him (incorrectly) as the lazy but lovable uncle on Petticoat Junction.
Ruckus
@Anne Laurie:
This was my rescue cocker. He was stubborn, would only come back off leash if he wanted to(dog parks), over protective, neurotic, and probably a dozen other maladjustments. But he loved to ride in the car, would sit on the front seat and watch other cars and people for hours.
And he was a great friend. Can’t beat that.
Jeffro
@Cacti: I hear you, but he can’t get the nom…the Establishment wing won’t let him take the whole party down with him. Look for Rubio, Walker, and/or Cruz to start finessing the immigration issue (Cruz is already there) to try and peel off some of that support. I don’t know how they’ll do it with straight faces (but then again that’s true of most of what they say.)
Jeffro
@efgoldman: Yup – seconded. He’s been getting older, getting only Fox/Faux info, and unfortunately has had way too many years of people treating his bloviatings as not just entertaining but true.
Suzanne
@Cacti: Lots of dumbfucks. I had a good time riling them up. It’s kinda funny. I pointed and LAFFED a lot.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
Goldwater was smart enough to recognize that his ideas were out there, and hadn’t been exposed to the southern strategy (which didn’t exist yet) and he was educated enough to bullshit with big words and flourishes. Donald is an egomaniac of the highest level who started about 2 ft from home plate. Goldwater was an egomaniac at least a level down from the top and I believe he started on third. Small differences, both crazy, both obnoxious.
divF
@efgoldman:
After a cursory look, I haven’t been able to find the Paul Conrad cartoon (LA Times) depicting the 1964 GOP convention as the inmates taking over the asylum.
Amir Khalid
@Pogonip:
There are also books with bilingual text: Spanish, say, on the even-numbered page, English on the facing odd-numbered page. I have a few such books in French and German, and will be getting some in Spanish.
Kay
Great piece on what they’re planning to hit Clinton with:
The basic theme is “untrustworthy” but elections are comparisons and does Jeb Bush just exude trustworthiness?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/us/the-best-way-to-vilify-clinton-gop-spends-heavily-to-test-it.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share
Kay
Too, it occurs to me that the various GOP attack groups are vying for donors so maybe Karl Rove is just promoting his grift-PAC by highlighting the extensive research he’s doing to attack Clinton. “Donate HERE, pay ME”
Maybe it’s marketing. Every GOP campaign group probably has a big, fat top-heavy payroll and they’re all slicing up the wingnut donor funding pie.
SFAW
@Amir Khalid:
One book I have like that starts out “Ihr naht euch wieder, schwankende Gestalten”
I hope, someday, to get to “verweile doch, du bist so schoen” (I forgot how to add an umlaut to an “o”), but my Deutsch is pretty rusty.
Gian
Trump has never been elected or served in any public office.
The Trump of the left is more like Ralph Nader
redshirt
Trump v. Sanders would be the best election ever.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
I agree that your ego has to be substantial to think you can be the president, it’s just that I like people like President Obama, who has a lot more than just a giant ego, to hold the job. People like the donald and sarah, that’s all they have, an ego the size of all outdoors and the substance of a rotten moldy lemon.
cokane
The comparison doesn’t really hold. Trump says a ton of shit that he doesn’t probably even believe. I guess you can say these are R values? I don’t think so. Ted Cruz is probably a stronger analog to Sanders than Trump is.
Trump is doing well now because of name recognition only. Most Americans don’t follow politics closely enough to even know who the Vice President is. Much less a Senator or Governor from wherever. But they know their teevee celebrities. When the debates go down and the election dates near, you’ll see how little Trump and Sanders resemble each other in their respective nominations. This comparison is just facile myopia, devoid of historical context.
J R in WV
@Gvg: I think Columba got busted trying to bring haute coture stuff into the country without paying duties on it – aka smuggling. She got off easy as her B-I-L was president, and her husband was the governor… though I may have dates of service messed up. I’m really bad with dates, only have a few in my head and compare other events to the ones I have down, like graduated from college, married, moved into the new house, retired (YAY !!) etc.
Maybe she had too much cash money? I’m not sure, but it was crossing the border for sure with something undeclared. Too tired to look it up, also don’t care, won’t vote for that dumass she’s married to for anything. Maybe at gunpoint? Naaa, I’m too old to take that shit, shoot if you want to, then just try to get rid of a YOOOOUGE corpse.
redshirt
I’ve been following Trump on Twitter for ever since he’s solid stupid gold. And now this?!
sparrow
@Glidwrith: I agree with you guys/ladies. I was a “born and raised” conservative up to my middle teen years, but one of the first things that made me jump off that wagon of indoctrination was the racism towards hispanics (many of whom were my friends and co-workers). I remember being utterly confused about the “national language” gambit — I mean, logically, English had already replaced large pockets of German and French and tons of native languages, and people were going to speak what they were going to speak. If I had to learn Spanish to get along in the US, then why not? My friends had to learn English as a second language, and they were as American as me.
FortGeek
@Belafon:
…though I was a “wait for the primary” voter to see who came out as the nominee. Didn’t like Clinton then, still don’t like her–but that’s not even taking a back seat, it’s tied up in the trunk with duct tape on its mouth. Like her or not, she’s a damn sight better than any of the psycho dirtbags in the Great GOP Clown Car Demolition Derby. If she’s the nominee, I gotta vote for her.
Till then, though–BERNIE!
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@Belafon:
Then Obama, now Sanders.
hellorochester
@Pogonip:
Recall is “here, boy!”
RaflW
@Betty Cracker: Trump is lying and Sanders is telling the truth, but aside from that, yeah, they’re playing similar roles in their respective party primaries.
Exactly. This is why, at a basic level, Anna Marie Cox’s premise is shite. Except for the fact that one of these people is a carnival barker and the other is a seasoned legislator & policy person, they play the same role!
Broderism on bad mushrooms.
cokane
@RaflW: Yep. It’s the analysis of someone who’s only interested in politics as an interesting reality tv show, not something that has serious consequences for ppl. Sanders has a lifetime of real policy accomplishments. Trump has never been elected to anything.