The Hill, via Ed Kilgore.
Pressed on whether he would run as a third-party candidate if he fails to clinch the GOP nomination, Trump said that “so many people want me to, if I don’t win.”
“I’ll have to see how I’m being treated by the Republicans,” Trump said. “Absolutely, if they’re not fair, that would be a factor.”
Everyone in the GOP knows that Trump is bullshitting for attention. But they have to kiss Trump’s pasty ass out of fear that he will Perot the race next year, and he probably will anyway.
Is it possible the GOP will agree to talk about finance reform in 2016? Toss Trump in with Ted Cruz and all the other 2016 nutjobs who have a billionaire sugar daddy giving Reince Preibus ulcers, and my magic eight ball says just possibly maybe.
Cervantes
Your magic eight ball is a bit of an optimist.
Jeffro
“Outlook not so good”
Roger Moore
Of course, campaign finance reform in any likely form wouldn’t do much about Trump. As long as you’re wealthy enough to self-finance, they can’t do much about it.
chopper
god doesn’t love us enough to give us a trump 3rd party run. it would be so epic.
BGinCHI
I hate to say it, but at this point, at the Presidential level, I think reforming campaign finance would be a disaster for the left.
The corrupting influence of money is going to be there, cuz ‘Merica, so best that it festers out in the open like the pustule it is.
Kropadope
@Roger Moore:
Would it be better or worse to have Sheldon Adelson running personally instead of one of his proxies?
@BGinCHI:
So, would it be better to focus on disclosure requirements?
Roger Moore
@Jeffro:
Neither is Exchange.
RaflW
I doubt they’d go for campaign finance reform. They’ve demonized McCain-Feingold to the highest rafters, how do they come back off of that?
They also don’t want to bite the hand that feeds them.
And most generally, they don’t actually like to pass laws. In an ideal world, they’d just get elected, have occasional press conferences, and fly back and forth looking important (in an emperor’s new clothes sort of way). Legislate? Nahh, that could get scored by any of the 100s of ‘nonprofit’ ‘social welfare’ groups that orbit the cesspool.
Comrade Dread
I’ve said it elsewhere, but I have a small amount of respect for Trump for running for office himself on the platform that he should run things because he’s rich, rather than outsourcing the job to an empty suit proxy like the Koch brothers.
redshirt
I’ll become a HUGE Trump fan if he runs as an independent. Give ’em hell The Donald!
RaflW
@Kropadope:
It would be better. Because he is such an obviously contemptible person that he’d max out at 27% in any general election (not that I think he’d get the party nom, even, but you get the point)
cmorenc
@Tim F:
I assume, but am not sure that by “finance reform” you actually mean “campaign finance reform” and not “financial sector reform” aka Wall Street reform. The precise reason neither will ever happen is that the GOP’s supposed hierarchy (Preibus, McConnell, Boehner et. al.) have obviously lost control of the campaign purse-strings which the party’s candidates feed upon to free-spending private donors who purchase their Senators, Congressmen, and Presidential candidates direct rather than through meddling middlemen. Much better to insure that the supported candidates owe fealty directly to the donors, rather than to the party’s nominal leaders who may potentially have different priorities or ideas about whom and what to support. Both donors and candidates have concluded that they have no need of intervening layers directing them what to do or deciding how to spend the money or decide what messages to convey to voters.
Also, it would be very difficult, especially given Citizens United, to come up with some way that would cut the likes of Donald Trump out of spending his own money, and leave the likes of Sheldon Adelson in spending his own respective money. It’s some ironic schadenfreude watching Citizens United biting the GOP in the ass.
Roger Moore
@Kropadope:
For the world, I think it would be better if Adelson had to run as himself, since he’d be much less likely to get himself elected. But my point still stands: it would be ironic if they enacted CFR because of Trump, because any likely changes would make things more, not less, favorable for him.
Frankensteinbeck
If Trump runs as an independent, he will certainly scuttle any shred of chance Republicans have of winning the presidency. All he needs to take 2 or 3 percent, and their odds go from ‘bad’ to ‘zero’. At that point, the Republican Party will freak. What point the freakout will take, I cannot predict.
Chris
Oh my God, please make this be true.
Iowa Old Lady
@redshirt: I’m sure you’d cheer for Trump in the classiest way possible.
BGinCHI
@Kropadope: It would be better to have a more educated electorate so that stupid, lying candidates can’t get any traction.
Hold on, gotta run, my unicorn just escaped.
BGinCHI
@redshirt: You know that whatever else happens, it’s going to be classy.
My favorite part of any of his speeches is right after he says “And by the way…” Then you know something good is coming.
dmsilev
I have my doubts, sad to say. Running as an independent is hard; there’s lots of boring infrastructure tasks (i.e. ballot access petitions, etc.) that need to be done, and there’s no evidence as of yet that Trump is seriously interested in putting in that sort of work. Now, granted, sufficient amounts of money can take care of a lot of that, so it’s not impossible, and it sure as Hell would be amusing to watch…
SatanicPanic
@BGinCHI: I kind of agree. Seeing what a joke it’s turned the right into, I’m not sure we shouldn’t just leave campaign finance unreformed. I’m not even sure UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH really gets people elected at the national level anymore since our media is so fractured.
The Other Chuck
He won’t get the nom. He won’t run as an independent. He will endorse whomever the nominee is. The GOP always gets in line.
Kropadope
@BGinCHI:
Would disclosure laws help with that?
You won’t catch it, no one ever does.
catclub
@Frankensteinbeck: .
So we need an entire Trump party – contesting all the House races.
srv
CNN interviews boomer/vet Trump supporters.
Lady: “Let’s remember he started it by calling us crazies!”
Marine: “We like people who don’t get captured too”
White dude: “I think the media mischaracterizes what Trump said”
Beyond the Wingularity is the Trumpalarity.
catclub
@Comrade Dread:
Well, one of the Koch brothers HAS run, so they know how popular they actually are in a general election. Trump has not yet learned that lesson.
jibeaux
Man, a sentence I never thought I’d say is, “The Donald, you’re no Ross Perot…”
Even though it’s nahgunhappen, it would be great as long as Hillary still wins the popular vote. I don’t want to hear four decades of bitching about how Trump stole it from Jeb! or whoever the hell is Hunger games champion.
catclub
@jibeaux:
Interesting point. Bill Clinton never won a majority of the popular vote – third party candidates both times.
BGinCHI
@Kropadope: If the media operated under the assumption that governing mattered and that their role in the political system was to call bullshit on people who were gaming the political system for corrupt ends, then there would be little good in pouring money into lying, deceptive practices.
This is the fatal Cleopatra I would like to snuggle with.
MattF
I think Trump is just running off at the mouth. It’s what he does.
Chris
@Frankensteinbeck:
The optimist in me would love to see Republicans go through something similar to the split between progressive and conservative Republicans in 1912, or between segregationist Democrats and the rest of the party in 1968. Each of which permanently broke its party, at least in the form that had existed until then, and paved the way for the rise of the other party.
But those elections were at least about something, fundamental differences in policy opinions and voter bases within the party, which went beyond personalities like Teddy Roosevelt and George Wallace. That’s not the case here – I don’t see any real difference between Trump and any of his competitors (except maybe that Trump doesn’t play well with others, even by Republican standards), and Trump has nothing unique to offer other than “I’m Donald Trump.” So even if Trump did run as a third party candidate, it wouldn’t mean much. It would be like Ross Perot in 1992 – an egotistical blowhard with enough of his own money to spend runs his own bizarre campaign, and since times are bad, he actually picks up a bit of a following, but it ultimately doesn’t leave any lasting mark on the political landscape.
jibeaux
@catclub: I know, and Republicans definitely know. That’s the only thing I don’t love about the analogy to Perot, I don’t want any 49% victories.
the Conster
I think Trump is having a blast, everyone loves him, media spotlight is huge for his brand, and he’s going to go as far as he can with this. He’s a disruptor, and no one is going to tell him anything. If he falls in the polls, he’s going to insist on being kingmaker. He’s a one man wrecking ball.
SiubhanDuinne
Hahahahaha! The Laredo Border Patrol group that invited Trump to visit has now pulled out of the event! Can’t wait to hear what The Donald has to say about these erstwhile allies. This candidacy gets more delicious by the day.
Roger Moore
@jibeaux:
I’d rather hear four decades of bitching about Trump stealing the election from the Republican candidate than hear about President Jeb! Bush even once.
redshirt
@Iowa Old Lady: I’ve been following Trump for years on Twitter and I’ve spent it gaining his trust – I constantly fluff his pathetic ego and I like to think I played a very small part in what is now transpiring.
jibeaux
@Roger Moore:
agreed on that front, but since we’re talking third party Trump runs, this is a Thread Of Huge Classy Dreams.
Iowa Old Lady
@redshirt: Good lord. I had no idea you were so evil.
redshirt
@Iowa Old Lady: Anything to help our Country. :)
rikyrah
I don’t believe he’ll run as an independent…but, I just need for him to continue unfiltered for a few months of the GOP not saying anything against him on anything other than ‘ you’re being mean to John McCain.’ As long as they don’t come out and say that his POLICY POSITIONS are wrong, and how could they – he’s saying what they’ll all say, except he does not do it in Frank Luntz-approved language.
Chris
@jibeaux:
Meh.
As far as Perot goes, today, politics junkies from one side of the aisle may bitch that he proves Clinton didn’t “really” win, and the junkies from our side may respond that the polls show Perot took equally from Republicans, Democrats, and independents…
… But that’s all politics junkies. To the extent that normal people remember 1992, all they remember is “Clinton beat Bush” (and then won reelection again four years later). I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of Americans today, if polled, wouldn’t even remember who Ross Perot was.
Clinton versus iJeb! versus Trump would be the same thing – ultimately, the only thing most people would remember is Clinton beating Bush. (Huh, exactly like 1992).
muddy
I just injured myself from crossing my fingers too hard.
Bill
@Chris:
rikyrah
Jeb Bush pushes to ‘phase out’ Medicare
07/23/15 10:05 AM
By Steve Benen
Republican presidential hopeful Jeb Bush appeared at a New Hampshire event last night sponsored by the Koch brothers’ Americans for Prosperity, and the former governor raised a few eyebrows with his comments on the future of Medicare.
“The left needs to join the conversation, but they haven’t. I mean, when [Rep. Paul Ryan] came up with, one of his proposals as it relates to Medicare, the first thing I saw was a TV ad of a guy that looked just like Paul Ryan … that was pushing an elderly person off the cliff in a wheelchair. That’s their response.
“And I think we need to be vigilant about this and persuade people that our, when your volunteers go door to door, and they talk to people, people understand this. They know, and I think a lot of people recognize that we need to make sure we fulfill the commitment to people that have already received the benefits, that are receiving the benefits. But that we need to figure out a way to phase out this program for others and move to a new system that allows them to have something – because they’re not going to have anything.”
Remember, Jeb Bush is the ostensible moderate candidate in the massive GOP presidential field. It says something important about Republican politics in 2015 when the most mainstream candidate is also the candidate who wants to scrap Medicare altogether.
Regardless, there’s quite a bit wrong with his take on the issue, both as a matter of politics and policy. Let’s start with the former.
The Florida Republican is convinced that “people understand” the need to get rid of Medicare. He’s mistaken. Given the polling from the last several years, what people understand is that Medicare is a popular and successful program, and a pillar of modern American life.
Previous attempts to “phase out” the program have met with widespread public scorn and if Jeb Bush believes he can “persuade people” to get rid of Medicare, he’s likely to be disappointed.
As for the policy, there’s no point in denying that the Medicare system faces long-term fiscal challenges, but to argue, as Jeb Bush does, that Democrats have ignored the conversation is plainly incorrect. On the contrary, while Republicans fight to eliminate the Medicare program, Democrats have had great success in strengthening Medicare finances and extending its fiscal health for many years to come.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/jeb-bush-pushes-phase-out-medicare
Brachiator
Campaign finance reform? Why? Trump is self-financing his campaign, or threatening to do so. Are you assuming some campaign law that would prevent someone from spending his or her own money, or with extreme limits?
Also, you have, what 40 thieves running for the GOP nomination? Could as many people jump into the race if they had to first pass some campaign finance threshold?
@Chris
No real political junkie would make this claim.
Citizen_X
@BGinCHI:
I think I like your unicorn best of all.
Jeffro
@Roger Moore: Lol.
I love the use of “Perot” as a verb, and a negative one at that, in the initial post.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I stil tend to think Trump is not interested in the nuts-and-bolts work it would be to run a third party, even to pay someone else to do that work. He likes attention, applause, yelling at reporters, belittling the other candidates. I think they would have to really piss him off to get him to spend the money to get on ballots. But maybe there are enough crazy fucks in this country that he could fundraise and not even have to pay for it
ETA; the most surprising thing about Perot is how quiet he’s been since the nineties. If we’ve heard much from him, I don’t remember it.
scav
@Kropadope: I think I saw BGinCHI’s unicorn run by just a second ago. Nice one, probably headed for the lake, although there’s a good pizza place in that direction too if it’s peckish.
shell
@rikyrah: I think their response has been (every time Paul Ryan puts up the same sorry proposal) is ;Are you fucking kidding me:
And re: Trump. If he did run, he would certainly make cable news happy.
dedc79
OT: Rich Lowry reviewed TNC’s new book for Politico and the review is every bit as awful as you’d expect:
Brachiator
@the Conster:
Trump is more than a sideshow only if he starts winning primaries. And if he fails miserably in the primaries, he won’t be any kind of kingmaker. He won’t even be a footnote.
Imagine if Trump was a contestant on one of his own programs, The Apprentice. His task is to build a campaign team and win a primary. So far, aside from exciting the rubes and upsetting GOP insiders, Trump hasn’t accomplished very much or shown that he has a clue about the political world. He may even be able to fake it if he makes it to a debate. But after this, the wheels will start coming off his wagon, and he will be looking for the nearest exit. He might still make some noise, but no one will take him seriously.
TG Chicago
OH MY GOD
Actual headline:
Is Obamacare preventing access to hospitals in conservative states?
The story is about how red states that refused the Medicaid expansion are — YOU MIGHT WANT TO SIT DOWN — doing a worse job of treating poor people than the blue states that accepted it.
And they way they frame this is that Obamacare is to blame for the red states not doing so well. Even though the problem is that those states refused to accept the relevant portion of Obamacare!
Reuters is only a tiny bit better with this headline:
Some public hospitals win, others lose with Obamacare
NO. No hospitals lost because of Obamacare. They lost because they refused to fully take part in Obamacare.
Darn liberal media.
White Trash Liberal
The base does not want another RINO. They want a true conservative. Trump is the first Not Bush. Cruz or Walker will come out of this on top because they have the most uncompromising record and rhetoric.
Tom Q
Put me down as not believing Trump will run 3rd party, and not rooting for ir, either.
Democrats have a chance to establish themselves firmly as the dominant presidential party in this country — three victories in a row, and six of seven in the popular vote, will make a statement that this isn’t a roughly 50-50 country. But that statement will not come across if Hillary wins a plurality — even a wide plurality — because Trump is drawing off votes. If Hillary runs against Walker (the way I’d bet today), she could win by 7-10 points, and that would change some of the way the Beltway folk view politics in this country.
I know: it’s a popular belief around here that the media cover politics as they do because their Corporate Masters demand it. That’s true to some degree…but there’s also the fact that Dems haven’t scored the truly thumping victories FDR did, or Nixon/Reagan did later, to make the case that their party is no question the dominant force. Clinton’s below-50 percent wins, and Obama’s smaller margin at re-election, failed to make that case, and Hillary under 50 would do the same.
I feel very confident Hillary can win a sweeping victory, and I’d rather not weaken that with a Trump third party candidacy.
Jeffro
@dedc79: Wowzers. So African-Americans just don’t have the morals to handle reparation-$$$. Thanks Rich.
I blame Trump. Now all the GOPers are thinking out loud.
samiam
Who are you posters on Ball Juice trying to kid. You love the fact Trump, Palin etc. give you people something to write about. You are a complicit participant in the shit show.
Kropadope
@scav: No, we can’t let it get to the lake. They walk on water. We’ll never see it again.
Jeffro
@White Trash Liberal: Seconded. Cruz & Walker will have the actual organizations in place to win primary votes, and they most certainly are the two best positioned to pick up red-meat base voters.
White Trash Liberal
@dedc79:
Lol personal attributes. Wow. And this blatant racism will get a pass.
MomSense
@TG Chicago:
That really pisses me off. This is a perfect example of why it is so tough for a Democratic White House to get the message out.
feebog
@rikyrah:
What policy positions? So far all I’ve heard is I’ll build a HUUUGGGE fence on the border which arguably could be inferred to be a policy position. Other than that, he hasn’t articulated a single policy position. His entire campaign to date has been to hurl insults at other Republicans. Frankly, I don’t think he has really thought all that much about policy, its all about the presentation, not the substance.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
My unicorn is taunting me by nickering from just around the corner and then cantering away as I approach. If we all hope hard enough that the Donald will run as a Third Party Real Conservative Asshole, can we make it so?
Please tell me yes.
aimai
@Tom Q: Nobody cares how you win, as long as you win. If HRC wins, even with a trump third party run, it won’t legitimize her and it won’t delegitimize her any more than Obama’s stunning win for his second term legitimized him inthe eyes of the republican party. No Democratic president is ever considered “legitimate” and especially not after Obama won with the coalition of the wrong kinds of people (women, minorities, young people). Don’t even start worrying about it. Winning is winning.
hitchhiker
@dedc79:
Holy hell.
Just One More Canuck
@dedc79: So what has Rich Lowry ever done to earn the ability to lecture others about moral effort
Punchy
He’s looking to get PAID by the Big Money to leave the race. I bet his asking price is north of half a bill. This is Extortion 101 played well by Trump.
KG
Perot did not cost GHWBush or Dole the elections in ’92 or ’96, every analysis done of 1992 show that Perot took pretty much even numbers from Clinton and Bush; and his impact in ’96 was even less because he probably took more votes from Clinton than Dole. Trump, however, would have a disastrous impact on the GOP nominee’s chances this year because he wouldn’t be running a moderate reform style race like Perot did – he’d be throwing red meat at the right wing, it’d be a bit more like George Wallace in 1968 only on a national level.
The other issue involved that Trump will have to face is the “sore loser” laws. Many states say that if you run in a primary and lose, you can’t run in the general as an independent. I don’t know if those apply to Presidential elections, but he may have to get a third party nomination to get on the ballot if he actually appears on the ballots in GOP primaries – which is what Gary Johnson did in 2012 when he switched from the GOP to the Libertarian party.
FlipYrWhig
@dedc79:
Is there any other way to read this than “Silly Coates. Give $20K to a Negro and he’ll just blow it all ‘making it rain'”?
Roger Moore
@aimai:
No ordinary person may, but political junkies who want to delegitimize your victory will care. Unfortunately for the Democrats, that includes the Beltway Media, who still have an outsized influence on the rest of the country.
srv
You people have no idea about Cruz’s intellect:
FlipYrWhig
@Just One More Canuck:
He just barely managed to avoid masturbating when Sarah Palin spoke at the 2008 RNC. That appeared to require exceptional effort.
Quaker in a Basement
Trump’s antics make me think he is the Max Bialystock of presidential ambitions.
Cervantes
@Just One More Canuck:
You answered your own question.
Another rhetorical question: Where are the BLM protestors in the fight against Rich Lowry’s cluelessness? (This one answers itself, too: Valiantly defeating the horror that is Bernie Sanders, that’s where.)
Chris
@srv:
TNG didn’t split up Kirk, it just inverted Kirk and Spock’s positions. The cold analytical rationalist was the captain, and the hotshot who jumped in first and asked questions later was his XO.
Amir Khalid
@srv:
But Republicans don’t have a rational side.
kwAwk
There are day’s when I think Trump’s antics are a ploy to get the moderate Repubs to stand up to the crazies in the party. He’s going to keep tossing out every non-serious crapola argument until they make him stop.
He’s acting like a Right Wingnut blogger who inherited a billion $.
TG Chicago
@dedc79: Besides the unveiled racism that others have mentioned, this totally misses the point of TNC’s reparations argument.
His argument is that black Americans have had their wealth plundered by slavery, jim crow, redlining, etc., and thus it is just to have that wealth returned. I don’t believe he ever argued that doing so would end black poverty for once and for all.
The people with moral failings are those who refuse to fully confront this argument: white America looted black America for centuries (not to say that the looting has entirely ceased). Merely stopping (or slowing) the looting does not restore justice.
Or to put it another way, Lowry said:
real improvement in the condition of black people would still require the moral effort that he won’t advocate for.
But understanding TNC’s argument for reparations would require moral effort that Rich Lowry is unwilling to expend.
KG
@srv: Kirk was never fucking rational, he was a god damned cowboy. Picard was more of a diplomat. In universe, they were both products of their time periods – during Kirk’s time, the Federation was still rather young and the galaxy was untamed (like the Wild West); during Picard’s time, the Federation was well established and the galaxy was more “civilized” (like the 20th century). Also, too, apparently Cruz is unaware of Picard’s view of the
communistsBorg./geek rant over
feebog
@aimai:
This. Times a thousand. The notion that the MSM will change their slant because Hillary thumps Walker or whatever chump they nominate is preposterous. HRC could win by 20 points and it would still be considered a squeaker by the Villagers.
Cervantes
@srv:
Thanks ever so much.
There was a time when the New York Times Magazine was run by actual journalists. You probably remember it, too.
Roger Moore
@kwAwk:
Then he’s doomed to failure, because there aren’t enough moderates to make a difference anymore.
dedc79
@TG Chicago: Exactly. I think TNC has been pretty explicit in his position that there is no reset button that can be pressed (reparations or anything else) that would undo harm or solve every problem. Reparations are the bare minimum – they require going beyond empty apologies and actually backing those apologies up with something.
dedc79
@FlipYrWhig: No, I don’t think there is any other way to read it, sadly. I think Lowry has way more in common with his old colleague, Derbyshire, than he’d like to admit.
Bill
@feebog:http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/20/politics/trump-announcement-speech/
Belafon
@dedc79: Didn’t even read the book. He may have stared at the pages, but totally missed the point.
ruemara
I’ll work for any candidate who champions public funding, & equal time free ads. It won’t pass in a heartbeat, but it’s the only thing that could fix this.
Brachiator
@samiam:
What are you griping about? Of course I love the fact that Trump is upsetting the GOP. When I go to bed at night, I pray to the baby Jeebus that Trump will come up with something new and stupid to say, and when I get up in the morning, I turn on the radio or TV and gleefully look for some new Trump outrage.
And I say, “Run, Donald, run!” I want him in the race. I want him to stay in as long as possible. I want him to outrage and insult the other candidates. I want him to say something ignorant or racist.
Why wouldn’t I? Shouldn’t you?
But if Trump (or Palin) shut up tomorrow and slink off back into the slime bogs from which they emerged, I will happily come up with something else to write about. I enjoy the Trump shit show. But I don’t depend upon it.
gnomedad
Nader helped hand W the 2000, so now it’s their turn.
rk
I listened to an entire interview of Trump’s for the first time. Good grief!! He turns every question around in some way to praise himself. But I get his appeal for some people. This is what stupid obnoxious people imagine themselves to be. It’s an art to be so full of yourself, so self unaware and so verbally adept that you can turn an entire interview around and make it all about yourself and put down every argument against you. I found myself actually grudgingly admiring Donald. It’s quite a skill set. I can see him out talking everyone on the stage at the debates. I cannot imagine either Jeb Bush or Scott walker being able to take him on. You have to make fun of him, need quick repartees and mockery to deal with him. A Jon Stewart, or a Barak Obama can do it. None of the 16 clowns on the republican side can even come close.
The first debate is going to be fun!
Larv
@TG Chicago:
Yes. I question whether Lowry actually read Coates’ reparations essay. Lowry seems to think it was a practical argument for helping black americans, but Coates clearly eschewed practical considerations to make an explicitly moral case for reparations. It isn’t about charity, it’s about settling a longstanding debt, both monetary and moral. Lowry has chosen to just throw all that out and mischaracterize the argument so as to fit his prejudices. What an asshole.
catclub
@dedc79: I blame Politico for that. You hire Lowry and that is what you get.
Mark B.
@srv: Wow, even his Star Trek analysis is shallow.
dedc79
@Belafon: Note that he did manage to get in the writing equivalent of “He’s so articulate! So well spoken!”
FlipYrWhig
@Larv: Lowry means “moral” differently. He means that Coates hasn’t taken into account that most black people don’t have enough self-control to handle their reparations check. Coates may be making a moral argument about justice; Lowry appears to think it’s a moral argument that doesn’t account for the immorality of the beneficiaries. It’s repulsive.
catclub
@feebog:
They will say illegitimate because not enough white voters.
Cervantes
@TG Chicago:
More a moral capacity that he does not appear to possess.
Belafon
@Cervantes: Yeah, poor Bernie.
The answer to your question is the Democratic candidates have already begun to address the issues brought up by BLM. The best you’d get out of Lowry is “Where’s my sticky picture of Palin?”
boatboy_srq
@Kropadope:
It would look worse but actually be better. Adelson would have a forum for his ideals, which he would squander through being the conservatist righteous ars3hole he is; but having the actual policy-pushing slime visible to the electorate would be a far more effective argument against the things he advocates than any sugarcoating his bought-and-paid-for representative would supply. The campaign would be ugly but the effect on representative democracy ought to be quite salutary. I for one would love to see the unflagging support for the 1%er POV shown up when an unredeemable example of the 1%er type they bolster (such as Adelson) campaigns for public office. This is actually Trump’s charm (if you will): he represents the least likeable, least photogenic 1%er possible, and he’s campaigning directly rather than buying his own politician. It’s no wonder the GOTea leadership isn’t fond of him.
Belafon
@dedc79: “Doesn’t really sound like a black man!”
patrick II
I don’t think Trump means to run as a third party candidate but is using the possibility as a threat to make sure he isn’t punked during the Republican primary process. He will be there at the debates, he will be on the ballots where he qualifies, and if he isn’t they will be sorry.
FlipYrWhig
@feebog:
I don’t expect we’ll ever see another presidential election more decisive than 55%-45%. Which the media will report as A Mandate for the Republican (it’s a ten-point trouncing!) and A Squeaker for the Democrat (a mere 5% difference and it would’ve gone the other way!).
Calouste
@The Other Chuck:
Trump has been an Independent, a Democrat and Reform Party besides three stints as a Republican. I doubt he gives a shit about what the GOP thinks of him.
It should be fairly easy for him to get the nomination of the Libertarian Party or so. Whoever is the head honcho there will have the choice between an almost completely anonymous existence as the Presidential candidate for the party, or a high-profile existence as The Donald’s VP candidate. Guess what.
PurpleGirl
Via a friend on FB:
Theodore Bikel has died at age 91. A folksinger and actor; among Broadway credits is Georg von Trapp in The Sound of Music and among TV science fiction is Sergey Rozenko , Lt. Worf’s adoptive human father in several episodes. RIP.
scav
@FlipYrWhig: Imagine the whining if the case was made that millionaires shouldn’t be able to bequeath their fortunes to their children or especially grandchildren because the feckless descendents wouldn’t be able to manage the cash. “Shirtsleeves to shortsleeves in three generations.” is even a proverb: a folk-wisdom passed down from the ancestors proving the point.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
Why does it matter what political junkies think? They have no influence over anything, It’s like someone saying, “well, political junkies think that Perot deflected voters away from the GOP, so Clinton didn’t really win.” So, what difference did this make? Was Clinton only allowed a 2 year first term because he “really didn’t win?”
Hell, I read part of a recent note by perennial nutball myiq etc talking about how Hillary Clinton won more primaries that were held on the left side of highways than Obama in 2008 and so his presidency is not legitimate. This kind of thing is not rational, and is not to be taken serious. Speaking of which…
Every credible analysis indicates that the influence of traditional media is declining, especially among younger people. And this includes the Beltway Media, which is surrounded by the stench halo of its self-importance. I do not understand why people want to keep insisting on the importance of the MSM when every available fact contradicts any simplistic view of this.
catclub
@PurpleGirl: Didn’t you leave out many decades as Tevye in Fiddler?
Cervantes
@Belafon:
I doubt Sanders is asking for anyone’s sympathy.
Your second statement misses the point: Ranking institutions by how offensive their pronouncements are and how much power they possess, or how much harm they do, one might conclude it’s more important to, say, mob John Boehner’s office or the editorial cubicles of the National Review. And yet that’s not what happens, is it?
As for your first statement: I see it has been addressed by others in recent threads.
tazj
@rikyrah: I read this and couldn’t believe it. It’s what Republicans believe and they want to get rid of Medicare, but I’m surprised that Jeb! would say it out loud. Never retire and no Medicare? I don’t know who he’s trying to appeal to? Are there Millennials who believe that Medicare won’t be around for them so let’s just trash it?
Sadly. I don’t think Trump will want to work hard enough to be an Independent candidate.
Larv
@FlipYrWhig:
Oh, I agree that it’s repulsive. But what makes it even worse is that it’s intellectually dishonest. He’s refuting an argument that Coates never made. At least as far as I recall, he never required that reparations transform anyone’s life or even that they be spent in a “responsible” way. His point was that this is a debt which is owed, and that means that the onus is on the debtor, not the ones being paid back. Their morality or immorality or possession of Lowry-approved personal attributes is simply irrelevant to Coates’ argument. Rather than deal with this, Lowry just falls back on the same tired bullshit conservatives use to rail against welfare. They’ll just spend their reparations on t-bones and drugs, so why bother, amirite?
Another Holocene Human
@BGinCHI:
Because they would destroy unions’ political influence as a “compromise”. The collective voices of 100’s of thousands of AFSCME members for example are just the same as one billionaire trying to buy some senators. Morally … legally … well, hell, it’s MORE immoral because those gov’t workers are moochers and looters and so is their union!
Chris
@Larv:
Exactly. It’s like saying “you shouldn’t pay back your loans, because the banker’ll just blow it on hookers and drugs.” He probably will, but so fucking what? Any court would tell you it’s money that’s owed to him and what he spends it on is his business.
Brachiator
@scav:
People used to make this case all the time, and this includes plutocrats such as Andrew Carnegie, who made a big deal about the necessity of the rich giving away their wealth.
Mandalay
@Tom Q:
Are you trolling? Obama got over 51% of the vote in successive elections. The last president to do that was Eisenhower, but apparently Obama’s effort wasn’t wasn’t good enough for you.
If Hillary Clinton gets 52.9% of the vote for president the Villagers will be saying “She couldn’t even muster 53% of the vote!”.
Winning isn’t everything, but it is 99.99% of everything. The Villagers can have the other 0.01%, and whine and bloviate until the cows come home. Who really cares about that apart from you and Villagers with columns to write?
Cervantes
@Mandalay:
Tom Q did not say otherwise.
PurpleGirl
@catclub: His credits are so long, I couldn’t list them all. He had a such a great voice. I listed one that most people would recognize and one that has left off other lists.
Hoodie
I fail to see the need for pearl-clutching (e.g., “shitshow”, “unserious”, etc.) about Trump, particularly from Democrats. The GOP hasn’t been anything but a hybrid of reality television, corporate corruption and religious fanaticism for a long time now and Trump is the offspring of that genetic experiment. He really is not voicing anything that has not been said by various GOP politicians over the last several years. Remember Romney with “self deportation” and “double Guantanamo”, John McCain with “build the damn fence”? God knows Louie Gohmert, Steve King, Michele Bachman, Santorum and sundry others have said things equally vile. Trump is just openly messaging the erogenous zones of the GOP base and, actually, is more in tune with it because he’s not advocating things like privatizing Social Security and Medicare, making bad trade deals, etc.. I am fascinated by what is motivating him. Is he out to help the GOP or to destroy it? Is he trying to blow up the conventional political process because he thinks politicians are a bunch of sleazy assholes who are no better than him, and just less honest? It’s entertaining to watch him call out GOP pols who previously kissed his feet for contributions and endorsements (I recall Romney groveling for support) and uttered nary a peep when he went on his birther crusade. I’m not convinced that it’s just ego gratification, performance art or a branding exercise. Trump is successful, even though it’s an empire of bullshit. He’s the epitome of what the GOP holds as an ideal. He’s a horrible bigot and it goes without saying he would be a lousy president but, even though it’s inconceivable he could get elected, would he be any worse than Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or Scott Walker or other supposedly “serious” candidates? He won’t win the GOP nom because the knives are out for him there, but a third party run would be fantastic, because Hillary will need all the advantages she can get. I doubt he’ll take it that far but, you never know, I don’t think Perot had much in the way of campaign infrastructure. All he needs to do is get on the ballot in a few key states like Nevada, Arizona and Colorado. There are plenty of crazies that will vote for him.
Cervantes
@Hoodie:
Lust, I imagine.
He’s using it.
Alex
@SiubhanDuinne:
“Despite the great danger, Mr. Trump is traveling to Laredo, TX to proceed with the visit to the border. It is unfortunate the local union of Border Patrol Agents received pressure at the national level not to participate and ultimately pulled out of today’s event. They are being silenced, and are very unhappy about it, as told directly to Mr. Trump,” he said in his Thursday statement. “It can only be assumed that there are things the politicians in Washington to not want Americans to see or discuss. It shows that we are not even safe in our own country. It is time to face these hard truths and Make America Great Again!”
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/donald-trump-response-border-union
Chris
@Hoodie:
Completely this.
The mainstream media is absolutely mystified that such a clearly Unserious candidate could be taking such a lead. What they don’t understand is that for regular people who aren’t plugged into the “who is and isn’t a Very Serious Person” gossip machine of the MSM, Trump is indistinguishable from most major candidates that the Republicans have put up in the last several decades. Why shouldn’t voters take him just as seriously as they took the shitty movie actor thirty five years ago, or the born-again draft-dodging frat boy fifteen years ago?
boatboy_srq
@Hoodie: I fail to see why a Trump candidacy is in any way a bad thing for Dems (or for the soul of the GOP). Trump is in essence calling the GOTea on its b#llshyte by ignoring all the dogwhistle framing for GOTea policies. The rest of the field has to either own up to the deceptions of the last few decades, or else own the bigotry they’ve been fostering. The fracture Trump is creating within the GOTea – between the rank-and-file that bought the Reichwing package and the cynical VSPs who sold that well-decorated turd of a platform – is going to be highly instructive. Who will win? The racist/sexist/bigoted true believers, or the cynical pushers of the bigotry and hatred disguised as religious liberty, traditional values, federalism and small government? However it spins out, the result will be either a healthier GOP or an unmasked fascist movement. Either result means a healthier political climate where the current opposition either begins to behave responsibly or can be sidelined by both Left and Right as unfit to govern.
scav
@Brachiator: Conservatives aren’t what they used to be.
boatboy_srq
@Chris: The key difference is that the VSPs are invested in concealing their malevolence behind the phrasing. “Religious liberty,” “States’ Rights”, “Constitutional Conservatism” and the rest are all codespeak for a very ugly platform – but the phrasing allows the framers to coax folk not onboard with all their lunacy into their camp. Trump is calling out the VSPs for their disingenuity, and it’s working (at least for him) – just as it’s making the rest of the pack look weaker and nastier because they’ve bought into the weaselspeak approach rather than be honest about their intentions.
Frankensteinbeck
@dedc79:
Ho. Ly. Shit. He went straight to ‘blacks are lazy’, didn’t he? Is he going to face pushback on this? Because other than actually phrasing it ‘blacks are lazy’, I don’t see how he could be more direct. It’s not a dog whistle. He came out and said it.
@tazj:
Himself as his family. Keep watching Jeb. This isn’t the first insanity out of his mouth. He’s one of the biggest clowns in the car, unwilling to watch his mouth. He’s a Bush, damn it, and it’s his right to tell the little people what losers they are.
Chris
@boatboy_srq:
Are they really, though? As Hoodie points out, ridiculously obscene and stupid statements aren’t new in the GOP. Even if you figure Romney and McCain were toned down, you’ve still got Hermain Cain’s wisecracks about electric fences to fry Mexicans at the border and his promises to demand extra loyalty oaths from Muslim government employees… Santorum saying that pregnancy through rape should be taken as a “gift of life…” Chris Christie saying civil rights should’ve been left to the states and the feds should’ve kept out…
I mean, we here have been observing since before Trump that Republicans are increasingly losing any sense of the line between dog whistling and honest statements. Trump’s not the first and won’t be the last to go way over the line.
Brachiator
@Chris:
This is clearly not the case, or else, Trump would have about the same polling numbers as the other GOP candidates.
And trying to point out the deficiencies of the MSM misses the point here. Trump may be talking much like other GOP hopefuls in some way, but he is clearly making the GOP insiders queasy and making it harder for preferred candidates to get any firm footing with the voters.
RaflW
@SiubhanDuinne:
Via TPM, his spox says:
Oh, noes! the danger, the grave personal risk of a press junket. He’s soooo brave.
Another Holocene Human
@Frankensteinbeck: Good god, way to ignore the damn issue anyway. The debt is way higher than $1T you smirking fucker–Homestead Act ring a fucking bell?! I know plenty of Black people who have had family members killed by crooked cops, aren’t they owed millions for that? Ilyasah Shabazz’s grandfather was killed by domestic terrorists back in Michigan for being successful and outspoken. The insurance company REFUSED TO PAY on his life insurance policy claiming it was suicide. Yeah, that’s right, superpowered Negroes tie themselves down to the railroad tracks. $20,000? Get the fuck out.
And isn’t that the usual condescending drivel, not only is $20K not life changing anyway, but people like Lowry always think poor people don’t know how to use money. NOBODY KNOWS THE VALUE OF A DOLLAR MORE THAN A POOR PERSON. There’s this stuff called data, it says giving a dollar to a poor person stimulates the economy. Giving another dollar to a rich asshole just makes that dollar disappear. But Lowry makes his bread by singing a counterfactual tune. And apparently it isn’t a bridge too far to imply that Black people are impulsive, un-Klassy trash who can’t be trusted to look out for their own self interests. That probably plays well in Steubenville. Peoria too.
Brachiator
@RaflW:
Maybe it’s a windy day, and Trump’s hair will be end up mussed.
RaflW
@rikyrah: Yes, please Jeb! go after Medicare. Be brave, be brash, preach it brother!
TG Chicago
@Frankensteinbeck:
My only slight disagreement with you is that he explicitly said poor black Americans are morally inferior, which I’d argue is even worse than implicitly saying “blacks are lazy”.
boatboy_srq
@Chris: While the language has definitely been there, none of your examples stood a chance on the national stage. Every one was humoured as part of the party make-up, but none were expected (allowed?) to be the face of the GOTea when the final decision was made. Cain, Santorum, Keyes, Forbes, Buchanan and the rest have all served as distraction and as pressure-valve for the party id, venting the ugliness before someone groomed and (presumably) eloquent and versed in the party’s doublespeak was sElected. They were useful, both in allowing the ugly side of the party membership a chance to speak and in allowing the party leadership to portray that ugliness as peripheral to the party identity. That level of party control is gone. Trump is less Cain or Christie, and more Mourdock or Angle: the candidate the party leadership didn’t want, fought to prevent and has been made to live with in the past in more localized elections. What we’re seeing from the party may be predictable based on the trend; but what’s happening in the race so far speaks to party leadership freak-out because all the nasty things they were couching in otherwise-innocuous terms aren’t hidden any more and the person saying the out-loud nasty stuff in public is no longer the “entertainment” but the front-runner.
Chris
@Brachiator:
Last time around, we had a whole host of Republican candidates who stood above the rest in poll numbers… for a few months, or less. Doesn’t mean most of them wouldn’t have had basically the same policies, or weren’t appealing to the same basic Republican “id” with the same general themes.
Another Holocene Human
I know a lady who walked to work for months after her car died–early in the morning, before the buses run. In our town, that is quite dangerous, especially for a woman. Her #1 goal above all else was to save up for the downpayment on a new car. And so she walked. And walked. And walked.
She’s so poor she would qualify for Medicaid if Florida had Medicaid expansion but it doesn’t so fuck you. She is a talented chef who was hired by, and promoted within the kitchen of a very reputable name brand hotel. But as everyone in food service in North Central Florida will tell you, “You can’t make no money in Gainesville.” The pay is atrocious and the rent is as high as Orlando, Tampa, or St. Pete.
FUCK Rick Scott, FUCK the low minimum wage, and FUCK Rich Lowry, right in the wallet. Ass.
Another Holocene Human
@TG Chicago: I live for the day when writing something like that is instant career death.
Now I’m pissed.
RaflW
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
He endorsed Dubya in 2000. He’s been thrown down the memory hole a la Bush himself.
Another Holocene Human
@RaflW: Jeb Bush’ speeches are a cheap and effective emetic.
Side effects: high blood pressure. uncontrollable rage. fits of laughter that last longer than 10 minutes.
Another Holocene Human
“Through an act of Congress, our government was giving away millions of acres of land.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR4jQJJYW3Y
Chris
@boatboy_srq:
Well… first, was the last primary really as planned out as you’re making it out to be? Seemed to me at the time that the party leadership wasn’t orchestrating any of this, other than trying to direct where the money went (which was never going to affect Trump as much because he had so much of his own). The freaks weren’t being manipulated by the party; they went as far as they could go, Romney outlasted them all because he had money and establishment support that they lacked… but I never got the sense that the establishment wanted them there.
Second, as far as this case goes, the final decision hasn’t been made here either and I’m pretty sure Trump won’t be “allowed” to be the face of the party when all’s said and done any more than these previous loonies were. That presumes that his campaign doesn’t fizzle and burn out long before the final decision has to be made, the same way most of those Not-Romneys’ did (which is pretty much what I expect it to do).
Another Holocene Human
@Larv:
t-bones are nutritious and weed demotivates you from ganging up to kill whitey (soma, delicious soma), so what’s the problem?
I know, I know, embittered folks at the low end of the economic scale get ragey if somebody receiving public assistance (THAT kind of public assistance not THIS kind of public assistance, no it’s NOT the same, I DESERVE my entitlements) enjoys life for 2 seconds instead of being romantically miserable in just the right way.
Another Holocene Human
@tazj: I’ve got conservatives telling me they should phase in lowered Medicare ages so they don’t have to scramble to convert everyone at once. You know why? Lots of people between 50-65 are retired and company retiree health plans can’t afford it anymore. Also lots of people in that age range are employed, raising average age on the plans and making them more expensive.
A medium sized employer does NOT have the power the federal government does to keep drug prices down. Or to negotiate with hospitals. Or the spread out bad health outcomes. And their relative admin costs are just higher.
Eric S.
@scav: Definitely the lake front. It just galloped east on Randolph.
Brachiator
@Chris:
You’re missing the larger point in trying to paint Trump as just more of the same old same old.
The Tea Party is more extreme than the GOP and increasingly is calling the shots. Trump is out of control, refuses to play nice with the GOP insiders and may do a populist pivot that will make the Republican plutocrats faint. Worse, even if Trump’s campaign collapses (as I think it will), it may raise expectations among the conservative electorate that the regular GOP can never meet.
Also, it is pointless to speak of the other GOP candidates as having basically the same policies as Trump. Trump doesn’t have policies; he has a megalomaniac’s view of the world, and his bombast is actually vague and filled with contradictions.
There also hasn’t been much investigation into voter reaction to Trump. He has declared, for example, that when the rich buy a politician, he stays bought. Is the GOP faithful OK with that? He pretty much shit all over the pious religious mask of most GOP politicians by stating that he stops by church now and then, but doesn’t feel that he needs to ask God for his forgiveness. Is this OK fine with the fundamentalist lunatic core of the GOP?
Has any reporter asked Trump what he thinks about same sex marriage or abortion?
Trump may be like other Republicans in many ways, but for now, he is clearly not interested in following the official party talking points, and he has no problems with unleashing a scorched earth policy with respect to defeating the other GOP contenders, and maybe even the party itself.
Another Holocene Human
@srv: lolololol this is terrible
If William Shatner comes after him on Twitter, my day will be complete.
(A modern Republican would have shit his pants with indecision rather than do what Kirk did in the episode “Balance of Terror” in which he orders Lt “My grandpappy fought Romulans” Stiles off the bridge for “just asking questions” suggesting that Spock was a Romulan agent. You don’t need to wonder, just watch how the GOP POTUS candidates have behaved as Trump called Mexicans rapists and murderers.)
RaflW
@TG Chicago:
Not entirely ceased??? Not hardly.
Almost the entire net equity of black America was stolen by the subprime mortgage industry in the last decade. That the sub-primers then lost their own asses, but got bailed out, doubles the moral crime.
The devastation of communities like North Minneapolis (and cities nationwide) is still rippling from that latest looting.
Your conclusion re: Lowry however is spot-on.
Robin G.
Trump won’t get out until it stops being fun for him, and right now he’s clearly having a blast. All the cameras are on him and that’s his favorite thing. Being as a) that’s not likely to change anytime soon, b) he is completely unrestricted by realities like “polling”, and c) money is no object, I can’t see that he has any motivation whatsoever to leave this race. Count me in as saying he’ll be an Independent spoiler.
Paul in KY
@redshirt: There should be a medal for that.
Another Holocene Human
Cruz is such a dildo. Roddenberry and Shatner were strident liberals back in the 60s. Shatner took certain roles just because of the politics. Nimoy kept his head down but showed us he was a bleeding heart in the 80s. Takei was a far-left-liberal-radicalized Democrat who spent the 70s in California working on primary campaigns for Dems who lost the general to somebody more mainstream and even ran for office himself once (unsuccessfully). Nichols, in between working her 50 different jobs, considered herself an activist for improving Black representation on stage and screen.
Basically a nest of communists.
Paul in KY
@rikyrah: He needs to slag Walker & Jeb! a bit. Optimistic that he’ll get there.
Paul in KY
@rikyrah: Keep the Bushes out of my Medicare!!!! That’s a cry I can get behind.
Well done, Jeb! also too.
Another Holocene Human
@RaflW: Don’t forget the attack on income. Dismantle affirmative action before it has a chance to transform institutions. Invent a bogus notion called “reverse discrimination”. Outsource and privatize the public sector jobs that still do hire Black people consistently. Launch all out war on the unions that are left. See: school teachers of New Orleans. See: truck drivers. See: garbage hauling.
Some industries have had nominal–NOMINAL–hourly wages go down since the 70s. That’s not even factoring inflation. Real wages are way, WAY down. Taking all the income away has been as devastating to communities as closing factories.
We are in deep shit.
Paul in KY
@samiam: Do you think we’ll ever run out of Republican idiots to talk about (if Palin/Trump never existed)?
Another Holocene Human
@Brachiator: Freepers believe all their pols have been bought out, that’s why true conservatism has never been tried. They hate their pols.
eta: the creepy end of the Religious Reich doesn’t believe they need to ask forgiveness of anyone. they said the magic words, they are justified.
Paul in KY
@Roger Moore: If we won 60 – 40, they’d still find a way to ‘delegitimize’ it. That’s what they are paid to do.
Paul in KY
@catclub: I think I saw him in Fiddler on the Roof at Lexington Opera House about 4 years ago. Really enjoyed the show.
Horrible how the Jews were oppressed in Tsarist Russia.
Brachiator
@Another Holocene Human:
This is the lunatic fringe, doesn’t tell me anything about how the conservative base might have reacted to Trump’s declaration about the power of money.
hah! Interesting parody, but I don’t think this has much to do with devoutly religious conservatives, or even the religious lunatic fringe.
Anyone know when the first GOP debate will take place? Has Trump been included?
Iowa Old Lady
@Brachiator: Two weeks from today. No announcement yet over who participates.
Paul in KY
@Hoodie: Oh, we’re not clutching at pearls when it comes to The Donald & his march through the GOP primary process. Nosiree. I’m just hoping it continues for another 9 months or so.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Roger Moore:
Which brings up a question – is Trump self-financing? I wouldn’t expect him to use more than a token amount of his own money for what is obviously an exercise in performance art and branding. How many times has Trump gone through bankruptcy, yet still able to maintain his lifestyle?
Far more likely he has a bunch of suckers lending him money (who won’t see a dime of it back when he finally bows/is forced out), or he’s quietly raiding someone’s pension fund.
Paul in KY
@RaflW: I think he is in extreme old age now & is probably under some form of dementia-care.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Brachiator:
Which brings us back to the whole “false flag” idea, that Trump’s in this specifically to embarrass GOP and help the eventual Democratic nominee, which I personally do not believe, but cannot conclusively rule out.
catclub
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
Even if Trump is worth $N billion dollars, which I already doubt, how much is available as ready cash? A part of $4B would be maybe $150M, which is plenty to have all the primary campaign he needs. But does he really have 5% of all his net assets in cash and equivalents? And would he spend ALL of that ready cash? I have my doubts.
boatboy_srq
@Chris: The ’12 election was the test run for the Citizens United 1%er largesse. Cain, Gingrich and Santorum hung in as long as they did because of Adelson, Friess and the others pouring funds into the campaigns. ’12 was the first post-Citizens election: in a way it was a test run for what we’re seeing this time. I wouldn’t say that the ’12 results were planned so much as that there was still enough PAC and RNC funding to offset the individual donors, and that those funds drove the election toward the establishment. Romney wasn’t the preferred choice, but all the VSP’s preferred choices except Huntsman elected not to run, and Huntsman was thoroughly trounced very early; Romney became the default choice after Daniels and Pawlenty refused to run and the rest of the field turned into wingnuts. This time there’s truckfuls of funding from outside and the RNC has lost that control. As for Trump being “allowed” – well, at the end of the day it’s the primary voters who’ll decide that; and unless the GOTea pulls out all the stops to prevent him, Trump seems poised to gain enough votes to carry him through at least Super Tuesday. The party may not have a choice, and making the early primaries less about leaders and more about anyone-but-The-Donald will hurt more than help.
J R in WV
@srv:
“You people” is a fine way to piss everyone you intend to speak to off, before you have said a word. That’s stupid on your part.
Thinking that what you quote shows anything about Rafael’s intellect, well. that’s stupid too; what Rafael Cruz has to say is not deep thought at all, merely the repeat of a traditional republican slogan. He’s stupid, and you’re more stupid for thinking you see something that shows Rafael Cruz is smart.
I know, guys, don’t feed the trolls. But this guy is just so stupid, and such an easy target, I can’t resist.
srv, you’re too dumb to walk, chew gum, and breathe. Don’t try it at home, you may injure yourself. Then who could we make fun of?
Brachiator
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
False flag crap always entail deep conspiracies. Trump ain’t deep.