Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Bark louder, little dog.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

‘Museums aren’t America’s attic for its racist shit.’

In my day, never was longer.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Books are my comfort food!

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

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Trumpmentum

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As I noted earlier on twitter, the only quote missing from this forum of voters describing why Trump appeals to them is someone stating that he “has the electrolytes we need:”

By and large, however, the group seemed optimistic about Trump’s chances of reaching the White House, in part because of his status as a Washington outsider. When asked what they envisioned for a Trump presidency, the responses belied just how invested some had become in that vision.

“Classy,” said Cheryl, a real estate agent.

“I think it would be exciting,” Roger said. “I really do. I look forward to it. It’ll be an interesting thing every day.”

“I think he’d be calling out everybody,” John, a construction worker, said. “I think it’d be pretty good.”

Some even foresaw that day in terms familiar to many Democrats.

“He would surround himself with the best and the brightest,” retired school teacher Don said. “To the American people it would be a presidency of hope.”

You really have to watch the videos to get the full effect.

I’m putting Redkitten on notice. If Trump wins, the brood and I are moving in with her and her husband and those adorable kids. They’ll just love Steve and Lily and Thurston. And Rosie will keep them in line.

Reader Interactions

175Comments

  2. 2.

    chopper

    “I think it would be exciting,” Roger said. “I really do. I look forward to it. It’ll be an interesting thing every day.”

    “I think he’d be calling out everybody,” John, a construction worker, said. “I think it’d be pretty good.”

    some people just want to watch the world burn.

  3. 3.

    Wallis Lane

    In a 5-4 decision in the case of Trump v. Youse Guys in Government, Justice Beef Supreme, writing for the majority, declared presidential term limits “bogus and like way not cool.”

  6. 6.

    RP

    As I noted earlier on twitter, the only quote missing from this forum of voters describing why Trump appeals to them is someone stating that he “has the electrolytes we need:”

    Perfect.

  7. 7.

    Hal

    “He would surround himself with the best and the brightest,” retired school teacher Don said. “To the American people it would be a presidency of hope.”

    Of course plenty of people will say big deal, that’s his corporations, not him, but the U.S. government is not for profit.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/06/donald-trump-companies-bankruptcy-atlantic-city

    Still, since 1991, Trump-related companies have filed for corporate bankruptcy four separate times. Filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy allows a corporation—which is legally distinct of its shareholders, owners, board, and C.E.O.—to stay in business while it re-structures and attempts to reduce its debt. So, while he’s been able to keep his personal finances in order, the businesses that so proudly trumpet his billion-dollar name are something of a different story. In preparation for Trump’s time on the national stage, here’s a closer look at those filings.

    1991, Trump’s Taj Mahal in Atlantic City

    This is the one where The Donald’s fortune was actually in any danger. After financing much of the construction of the casino with junk bonds, the luxe facility was in debt, and so was he. (Exactly how much is up for debate; the Times pegged his personal liabilities at $900 million.) In order to escape potential doom, Trump’s corporation filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which allowed him to reorganize the debt while the casino remained open. The real-estate tycoon ended up taking a substantial hit this time, as he was forced to relinquish half his stake in the casino and sell his yacht and airline to pay back loans.

    1992, Trump Plaza Hotel in Atlantic City

    In his second swing at bankruptcy, Trump was able to insulate himself from any real harm, for the most part. This time it was the Trump Plaza Hotel that was hemorrhaging cash, having lost over $550 million. Ever the negotiator, the entrepreneur agreed to give up a 49 percent stake in the hotel to Citibank and other lenders, according to ABC News. In exchange, he received more favorable repayment terms on the debt. The celebrity developer also managed to hold onto his C.E.O. title, even though it meant giving up his salary and any role in the day-to-day operation of the hotel.

    2004, Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts

    Just over a decade later, a Trump corporation was filing for Chapter 11 yet again. With the company nearly $1.8 billion dollars in debt, the businessman was back to making deals, this time agreeing to reduce his stake in the company to about 25 percent in exchange for lower interest rates and a new loan, the Associated Press reported at the time. The move meant that Trump surrendered much of his control in the company, but considering what had been going on under his watch, that was probably a good thing. (Time magazine claims Trump was also forced to pump $72 million of his own money into the company to keep it going.)

    2009, Trump Entertainment Resorts

    In his most recent dalliance with bankruptcy, Trump’s company declared Chapter 11 after missing a $53.1 million bond interest payment. Trump and the rest of the board of directors could not reach an agreement over whether or not to file for bankruptcy, resulting in his resignation as head of the board, Reuters reported at the time. The move also saw his stake in the company reduced even further on what Trump called a now “worthless” investment that he assured was less than a percent of his net worth.

    So, it’s hard to deny that Trump’s personal finances are in great shape (although maybe not quite as good as he thinks), but his corporate track record is a little more . . . mixed. And that brand, which he’s assiduously attached to his projects, has occasionally come back to haunt him. Although he no longer has any involvement with the casino, Trump’s Taj Mahal filed for bankruptcy again in September of last year—leaving thousands of jobs to disappear into the coastal New Jersey air. The Donald’s reaction? He immediately reminded everyone, while self-congratulating his foresight, that he had pulled out of both the casino and Atlantic City years ago.

  9. 9.

    KG

    part of me wants Trump to win the nomination because “fuck it, why not? let’s watch the world burn” but there’s the rational part of me that knows Trump getting that far is dangerous because it means he could actually be president. i think he’ll eventually say something insulting to someone that will blow up his campaign, calling a woman “little lady” or saying something out of bounds with respect to race (like I could see him saying “the coloreds love me and I love them”). but it is just amazing to watch what is happening right now.

  10. 10.

    JustRuss

    You really have to watch the videos to get the full effect.

    Yes, and you really had to be standing on Mt. St. Helens when it erupted to get the full effect, but in both cases, I’ll pass, thanks.

  12. 12.

    Brachiator

    Although obviously not statistically significant, yesterday a talk show host spoke with four people who really liked Trump. Three of them were women, and they all downplayed some of the accusations that Trump is mean (or worse) to women. One person said that he or she liked both Trump and Bernie Sanders, because they were straight talkers and not obviously bought out by special interests.

    Also, all of these people were really anxious to see something done about immigration problems. Trump really appealed to them over this point.

    I think the idea of Trump is more exciting and more hopeful to some people than the reality of Trump.

  13. 13.

    trollhattan

    Sweet Rompin’ Ronny Reagan on a Roomba, we already did this in Galifornia with Arnold, and also, too, Minnesota with a freaking wrestler. A literal comedy presidency seems like a good idea to these morans?

  15. 15.

    Calouste

    @KG:

    Trump getting that far is dangerous because it means he could actually be president.

    And the difference with the other Republican candidates is…?

    At least Trump hasn’t (yet) said he is going to start a war with Iran on day 1, like Walker (or was that Graham?).

  16. 16.

    KG

    @Brachiator:

    I think the idea of [insert name] is more exciting and more hopeful to some people than the reality of [repeat name].

    you’ve just summed up American politics for the last 30 years or so? Maybe longer?

  17. 17.

    RP

    Have any of your seen the Black Mirror episode with Waldo? Some uncomfortable parallels with the Donald…

  19. 19.

    redshirt

    With Trump we’ve reached the glorious moment where reality TV and american politics merge and are revealed to be the same exact thing.

  20. 20.

    KG

    @Calouste: that was Walker. I think Jeb and Kaisch are the least crazy/most rational of the group. But the difference is the rest of the candidates are (more or less) career politicians at this point – so they listen to their staff and advisers. I don’t think Trump would actually listen to anyone and he seems so emotionally unstable that he would lash out not just at rivals or enemies but at allies in a way that could devastate our standing in the world.

  22. 22.

    Mandalay

    Radio shock jock Michael Savage:

    Trump Is the ‘Winston Churchill of Our Time’

    For all their ranting, nothing coming from the clown car has topped that.

  24. 24.

    Gravenstone

    This wasn’t lifted from the Onion? Not even a smidge? Fuck us all, everyone.

  25. 25.

    JPL

    From one of the commentors
    “I was a little girl, and I didn’t even know what Trump Towers were, but I knew that he was a wealthy, successful man and I remember asking my mother if I could write him a letter to ask him how he made his money,” Jessica said.

    Dear Jessica,
    If you are not born into a wealthy family, it’s to late.
    Love, Donald

  26. 26.

    hoodie

    I can’t wait for the upcoming seasons of “Ow My Balls!” and WWE matches in the Capitol Rotunda. Not surprising they weren’t bothered by Trump’s Mexican rapist comments. Granted, this appears to be a self-selected group of morons (including Heileman).

  27. 27.

    John Cole

    @RP: I just watched the first episode last night and I am ashamed to admit that we weren’t five minutes in and I had already done the mental calculus that I would fuck a pig to save a human being’s life- especially a young person with their whole life to live. I figure the queen can afford to buy me a fuckton of body wash.

  29. 29.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    That dowdy old White House could really use some neon lights and gilded trim, just sayin’.

  31. 31.

    Calouste

    @KG: America won’t have much standing in the world when they elect another Republican anyway. Just go back to Romney’s visit to London in 2012. The public gaffes were bad enough, but there were leaked comments from people who attended non-public meetings with him that were devastating, along the lines of clueless and incompetent. And that was by the British Tories, in theory some of the GOP closest allies.

  32. 32.

    kindness

    That prion disease Charles Pierce is always talking about? Me thinks there is something to it.

  33. 33.

    Mandalay

    @trollhattan:

    also, too, Minnesota with a freaking wrestler

    What was wrong with Jesse Ventura? I really liked some of the things he said. Was he a lousy governor?

  34. 34.

    LWA

    @redshirt:
    I read somewhere that for people in the 19th century, politics was the entertainment of the day, and was thought of in a similar vein. Dirty tricks, maudlin appeals to humble yet noble birth, deceptive proposals, fearmongering about immigrant hordes…it was all there.

    I think due to the prosperity and stasis that marked most of politics in our lifetimes, we forget that politics was most always a raucous stupid clown show- it was only masked by the elite that governed public discourse.

  35. 35.

    walt

    Cheryl thinks “classy” because real estate agents are prejudiced in favor of Rich White Trash.

  39. 39.

    Germy Shoemangler

    “He speaks the truth.”

    “He doesn’t care what people think.”

    “I like his roughness.”

    “He’s like one of us … besides the money issue.”

    “He said he’ll put a wall down on the southern border. When you talk about common sense, that’s the commonsense thing to do.”

    “He’s successful. I wanna be a billionare.”

    [Interviewer: “Tell me what a Trump presidency would look like?”] “Classy.”

    “I think we could be a proud America again.”

    “To the American people it would be a presidency of hope.”

    Many also cited Trump’s vast wealth in identifying with him.

    “I knew that he was a wealthy, successful man and I remember
    asking my mother if I could write him a letter to ask him how he made
    his money so that I could do it too,” Jessica, a data analyst, said.

  40. 40.

    RaflW

    I’m making another trip to Sweden in October to see my cousins. I may mention to them to be ready for my honey & me as political refugees if any of the 16 klowns win.

    Oh, and “he would surround himself with the best and the brightest” only works if you are dumber than Sarah Palin … which plenty of Americans are.

  41. 41.

    James E Powell

    he’s still in tune with what everybody is wanting,” Janet, a former dog breeder, said.

    One of the enduring delusions beliefs in the right-wing worldview is that what they want is what “everybody” wants.

    They do sometimes speak as if they are an oppressed minority, but that is not how they view themselves. They believe that they are the majority and they are being oppressed by “the minorities” who in their view control the press/media and all three branches of the government.

  42. 42.

    Germy Shoemangler

    @LWA: True.

    I remember reading that in the 19th century, there was something called “dead catting” – an angry audience member would throw a dead cat at whoever was giving a speech.

    Makes today’s hecklers seem like pussies, if you ask me…

  44. 44.

    trollhattan

    @Mandalay:
    Don’t live there so I’ll leave that to Minnesotans; but I do live in California so know firsthand that entertainers are not prepared for the actual demanding and boring tasks of governance. Arnold wasn’t nearly wingnutty enough for the assholes who put him into office but he also had no idea what he was doing, much to the state’s peril during an awful period. Compare to Jerry, who considers the act of governance to be a worthy calling in itself.

    Need I add that “government isn’t the solution, it’s the problem” Ronny Reagan was the antithesis of a competent political leader, which is why he’s still worshiped by sociopaths everywhere.

  45. 45.

    rk

    @KG:

    i think he’ll eventually say something insulting to someone that will blow up his campaign, calling a woman “little lady” or saying something out of bounds with respect to race (like I could see him saying “the coloreds love me and I love them”).

    I use to think that once upon a time. Not anymore. There is literally nothing that is out of bounds for republican voters. In fact the opposite is true. The more civilized their candidates are towards minorities or women, the more they hate it. They want a candidate who is obnoxious and hateful, because to them civilized behavior is being “politically correct”. Trump is not going to implode. He’ll lose when it comes down to three or four candidates, but nothing he says will bring him down.

  46. 46.

    redshirt

    I’ve said it before in another thread but I’m prepared to take on considerable wagers that Trump won’t be President of the United States.

    Anyone who’s sincerely afraid of this possibility needs to get in touch!

  48. 48.

    Calouste

    Trump btw gave a press conference on one of his golf courses in Scotland and mentioned that he would “unite the world”. Unite the world against him of course, but he failed to mention that.

  49. 49.

    Mandalay

    Mitt Romney is going after Cruz for his ranting:

    I am opposed to the Iran deal, but @SenTedCruz is way over the line on the Obama terrorism charge. Hurts the cause.

    Please proceed, Governor.

  50. 50.

    Jeffro

    @trollhattan: And if we’re going to go with straight-up comedy/reality-show presidencies, that’s fine…but could we amend the Constitution first, so that all the powers of the executive are vested in some other office? ANY other office?

  53. 53.

    RaflW

    BTW, from one of the latest polls, I noticed that Walker was pulling 13% in the GOP matchup (ie: versus ferret-hair, exclamation point, the glasses, Angry1, Angry2 and Angry3, etc).
    But he polled only 9% with women Gopers. I realize the margin of error is probably big in these early tests and with so many candidates. But my non-math wizz brain says that means (roughly) Scotty has 17% male/9% female support?

  57. 57.

    burnspbesq

    Between Trump and Windows 10, I think we’ve forfeited the right to refer to ourselves as a civilized country.

  59. 59.

    JPL

    Lindsay said a birther would never be elected President so his candidacy is over.
    hahahahahahahha

  63. 63.

    Germy Shoemangler

    From the Devil’s Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce:

    POLITICIAN, n. An eel in the fundamental mud upon which the superstructure of organized society is reared. When we wriggles he mistakes the agitation of his tail for the trembling of the edifice. As compared with the statesman, he suffers the disadvantage of being alive.

  65. 65.

    RaflW

    @politicalwire
    Donald Trump: “I think I’d get along very well with Vladimir Putin.”

    Yep. Two self-dealing, egotistical autocrats. As long as they carve up the turf like mafia dons, all will be well between them.

  66. 66.

    jl

    I agree with commenters above that on substance, I don’t see how Trump is much different than the other GOPers, all disasters waiting to happen if they become president. Trump maybe be better in some small respects. Trump will want to try out his ;’secret plans’ for ISIS and Iran while Walker is saying he might commit major acts of war his first day in office. If Trump contracts out Social Security and Medicare actuarial work to the statistical consulting firms out of Reno and Vegas that keep c * s * n * s in business, they have the chops to do a good job, and will probably just subcontract the work out to the newly unemployed government workers, so it will be the same thing, just with some additional efficient GOP take for the consultants.

    Sorry for no link, but saw a national poll last week with both HRC and Sanders beating all GOPer pres hopefuls by handy margins. And I heard about a new one on news this morning with same results, particularly Trump got walloped by both HRC and Sanders.

    It is still very early in the next presidential cycle, and it is only our insane campaign finance system that has drawn us political junkies into the maelstrom this early. I think the Democratic candidates are spending far more time doing what they should be doing at this stage: going around country giving stump speeches, developing platforms and and policies, developing ground organizations and connecting with important constituencies. That is boring and you don’t see it in the news as much as the GOP circus. But that is a good thing, I think.

    The GOPers are eating themselves alive. You grift off the con for too long and then the con starts to grift off of you. The GOP is far along in that process. I hope it continues.

  67. 67.

    Patricia Kayden

    “You really have to watch the videos to get the full effect.”

    Nah. Delusional people acting delusional and saying delusional things is par for the course for Republicans. I’d like to see a video of his supporters when Trump inevitably implodes and drops out of the race though.

  69. 69.

    Bitter Scribe

    @KG: “Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach. Those who can’t teach, teach phys ed.”

    –Woody Allen

  70. 70.

    Germy Shoemangler

    More from the Devil’s Dictionary, by Ambrose Bierce:

    FOOL, n. A person who pervades the domain of intellectual speculation and diffuses himself through the channels of moral activity. He is omnific, omniform, omnipercipient, omniscience, omnipotent. He it was who invented letters, printing, the railroad, the steamboat, the telegraph, the platitude and the circle of the sciences. He created patriotism and taught the nations war— founded theology, philosophy, law, medicine and Chicago. He established monarchical and republican government. He is from everlasting to everlasting— such as creation’s dawn beheld he fooleth now. In the morning of time he sang upon primitive hills, and in the noonday of existence headed the procession of being. His grandmotherly hand was warmly tucked-in the set sun of civilization, and in the twilight he prepares Man’s evening meal of milk-and-morality and turns down the covers of the universal grave. And after the rest of us shall have retired for the night of eternal oblivion he will sit up to write a history of human civilization.

  71. 71.

    KG

    @rk: I was just looking at some polling numbers. he’s now leading in New Hampshire, he’s within the margin of error in Iowa, and he’s got a double digit lead in Nevada. That’s three of the first four states. It’s entirely possible that he could win the nomination. But I’m looking more at the general election, when he has to appeal to more than the GOP (which, based on some numbers I’ve seen is third in registration numbers behind Democrats and Independents). If he were to tell Hillary Clinton, during a debate, “now listen here, little lady…” he’d be lucky to break 40% of the vote in November (which is still sadly too high).

  72. 72.

    RaflW

    @Roger Moore: What could possibly be the point?

    Who on earth is he (and yes, I googled him.) Other than a ex-governor out of any noticeable circulation since 2002, I repeat, who the heck is he? What prompts a nobody to say “Hey, I should be #17 in the scrum!”

  73. 73.

    Bitter Scribe

    @trollhattan: …and also, too, Minnesota with a freaking wrestler.

    Didn’t Trump do some kind of cameo on WWE Raw or whatever that thing is called?

  74. 74.

    Calouste

    @rk: I’m not sure whether Trump will lose when it comes down to three or four candidates. At the moment two of those others would be Walker and Bush, and they pretty much appeal to the same demographic and would split the votes between them.

    What’s going to be interesting is the exact format of the primaries. Checking wikipedia, all primaries before March 15 have to be proportional, and that includes Super Tuesday and slightly more than half the states.

  75. 75.

    Rosalita

    People aren’t satisfied with reality teevee, they want a real time freak show in the White House

  76. 76.

    Germy Shoemangler

    @RaflW:

    What prompts a nobody to say “Hey, I should be #17 in the scrum!”

    Him (and people like him) saw Obama and said to themselves “If he can do it, I sure as hell can!”

    They just don’t understand.

  77. 77.

    Cacti

    Latest Quinnipiac poll shows Trump with an 8-point lead over the next closest GOPer…

    And trailing Clinton by 12.

    Whereas Bush/Clinton/Walker are all within a point of each other in head to head matchups.

    Go Donald!

  78. 78.

    trollhattan

    @KG:
    Going from (suspect) memory aren’t his poll negatives sky-high?

    Donald will be Donald and flame out. At this time last go the top two were IIRC Santorum and Cain (not sure about 1 but am about 2). It’s simply too early.

  79. 79.

    RSA

    “I think it would be exciting,” Roger said. “I really do. I look forward to it. It’ll be an interesting thing every day.”

    Until the day he fired us all.

  80. 80.

    Bobby B

    @Cluttered Mind: Carls could run the campaign like their burger commercials. Locks of Trump hair bouncing in slow motion, little flecks of Trump dandruff glinting in the sunlight, and his rabid tongue ashine like melty cheese…

  81. 81.

    Emma

    Businessman — Went bankrupt, what, four times? Once with a casino. How the dingleberries can you go broke with a casino?

    He doesn’t care what people think — I’m sure the assorted Presidents, Premiers, and Royalty will really really enjoy dealing with a loudmouth with anger-management issues.

    I think we could be a proud America again — Look, ma, we have a white president again!

    Classy — Don’t. Even.

  82. 82.

    shell

    Hurts the cause.

    Does anybody have a clue just WHAT the Republican cause is anymore?

  84. 84.

    ET

    Trump has indicated – I assume not unseriously – that he would consider Palin on his cabinet – which means he most assuredly wouldn’t be surrounding himself with the best and brightest. Many of his average American supporters have no clue about him.

  85. 85.

    jl

    @Cacti: Thanks. That is the poll I heard about on the news this morning. What surprised me and that I considered good news was surprising margin that Sanders had over Trump. That is not an endorsement of Sanders, just an indication that public opinion is running the right way no matter which Democratic candidate is in the general.

    I’ve seen polls that say between 60 and 65 percent of the voting public will not even consider voting for Trump. What goes on in the GOP circus gets further and further away from any reality for most people as time goes by.

    Edit: except I must have misheard the results for HRC versus other GOPers, I thought I heard she was further ahead.

  87. 87.

    Mike in NC

    Hulk Hogan would be a very classy running mate for Donald Trump, and his prolific use of the N word would be seen as a feature, not a bug in the GOP.

  88. 88.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    A small, dark, evil part of me wants Trump, Jeb!, and Walker to evenly split delegates in the primaries, forcing ballot after ballot after ballot at the convention. I want 1968-levels of crazy on the floor. I want Sarah Palin and/or Chris Christie to get falling-down blackout drunk and find a live microphone. I want to see Klansmen in hoods waving Confederate battle flags at the speeches.

    I want the modern Republican Party to drop its pants on live TV and not understand what the fuss is about.

    Dammit, I want PEAK WINGNUT.

  89. 89.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    I’ve said it before in another thread but I’m prepared to take on considerable wagers that Trump won’t be President of the United States.

    @redshirt: I know, and I agree.

    But I think he stands a VERY good chance of being the GOP nominee. I have not seen Republicans so excited over a candidate since Reagan.

  90. 90.

    NorthLeft12

    @James E Powell: Yes, I just posted a rant on another thread about Greenspan and his continued weaseling on his complete misjudgement of the 2009 economic meltdown. He keeps saying “We were all wrong.” instead of admitting that he was wrong.

    These people that keep projecting that what they want is what everybody wants drive me up the wall. I have made it my mission in life to quickly correct anyone who says that.

  93. 93.

    scav

    @Calouste:

    Jessica, a data analyst

    I think we know understand a lot more about the analysis behind the data-based marketing ads we all complained about / snorted at if she’s what passes as a member of the breed in certain quarters.

  94. 94.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    I want to see Klansmen in hoods waving Confederate battle flags at the speeches.

    @Grumpy Code Monkey: You won’t get the hoods, but if they want a riot at the convention they just have to try and ban the Dixie Swastika. I god-damn-guarantee that fucking flag will be ALL OVER the floor there this time.

  95. 95.

    redshirt

    @Grumpy Code Monkey:

    A small, dark, evil part of me wants Trump, Jeb!, and Walker to evenly split delegates in the primaries, forcing ballot after ballot after ballot at the convention. I want 1968-levels of crazy on the floor. I want Sarah Palin and/or Chris Christie to get falling-down blackout drunk and find a live microphone. I want to see Klansmen in hoods waving Confederate battle flags at the speeches.

    I want the modern Republican Party to drop its pants on live TV and not understand what the fuss is about.

    Dammit, I want PEAK WINGNUT.

    I’m in. This is the political reality show I want to see.

  96. 96.

    RaflW

    @trollhattan: In terms of policy outcomes, Jesse was alright. Not great, but relative to the mullet-haired jerk who followed him, he did alright by average people.

    But Jesse was a fragile egotist. He couldn’t handle the press taunts and constant questions. He really wasn’t cut out for anything outside of pro wrestling pantomimes & fans.

  97. 97.

    cmorenc

    Well, I do agree that Trump is the GOP candidate we ALL need – someone who nakedly exposes the greedy xenophobic ugliness of what the Republican party has become and who is incorrigibly incapable of being tamed by either Frank Luntz, Koch money, or Roger Aisles into being mendaciously soft-spun into anything other than what he truly is. Someone whom most hard-core wingnuts and hard-core GOP partisans will gladly follow down into the rabbit-hole of a devastating electoral defeat in 2016.

  98. 98.

    redshirt

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    @Grumpy Code Monkey: You won’t get the hoods, but if they want a riot at the convention they just have to try and ban the Dixie Swastika. I god-damn-guarantee that fucking flag will be ALL OVER the floor there this time.

    A great point. In fact, it would be awesome to gin up some noise about the Confederate Swastika right before the convention because you’re absolutely right, it would make the wingnuts wave their rebel flags even louder.

  99. 99.

    Keith G

    There is a lesson that so many (oftentimes left of center types) just do not learn: Equivocation and nuance are at best seen as a sign of inability and at worse as a sign of active deceit.

    Now some of us know that this doesn’t add up, but I fear that we are not as large of a group as those who instinctively do feel that this adds up.

    The good news is that Trump has so many mortal flaws that many in the instinctive group still will not support him. The bad news is that somewhere there is another W who they will feel comfortable supporting.

  100. 100.

    Calouste

    @trollhattan: 4 years ago the polling was Romney/Bachmann, going into Romney/Perry in August, and Perry taking the lead from mid August to late September. Cain then took over until early November, when it was Gingrich’s turn for awhile until the final Santorum surge in February. But Romney was always second or first.

  101. 101.

    bystander

    The word ” classy” is invariably used by those with none. Small wonder she appreciates Trump.

  102. 102.

    RaflW

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    No wonder the people who want to take their country back, want him as their President.

    I picture these people as “taking their country back” the way that I take a defective toaster back to Target.

  103. 103.

    mai naem mobile

    I saw this this morning on Mornin Ho which I rarely watch anymore. This is the result of a totally disastrous presidency followed by a black president with a completely crazy whackjob opposition who were continually cutting off their nose despite their face. Also too, McCain,Palin,Reince, Mittens, Rush,Fox – y’all built it, y’all can live in it.

  104. 104.

    Major Major Major Major

    @scav:

    I think we know understand a lot more about the analysis behind the data-based marketing ads we all complained about / snorted at if she’s what passes as a member of the breed in certain quarters.

    A lot of the industry is a sham, it’s true. That’s why one of the bullet points on my resume is “actual scientist”, and that’s under the “Big Data” section with “Big Data” in actual scare quotes.

  105. 105.

    gogol's wife

    @redshirt:

    He has no intention of becoming president. Too much work. And the White House isn’t good enough for Melania.

  106. 106.

    Diana

    @Germy Shoemangler: I really do think this might be a part of it. People who have no idea how good Obama’s intellectual credentials are (because they think Newt Gingrich is an intellectual, or because they have no idea what the Harvard Law Review is, etc.) believe the talk radio lies that Obama is just a facade for special interests, or the result of affirmative action, or a Mooslim, etc. They really have no idea.

    But then that’s why they voted for Bush and all the stupid Republican congressmen, isn’t it? It’s Dunning-Kroger all the way down.

  107. 107.

    Jeffro

    @Calouste:

    But Romney was always second or first.

    In this case, we have Jeb!, Cruz, Walker, and Rubio always near the top of the polls, such as they are. (They’re also the ones who were recently summoned to yet another audition before the Kochs, weren’t they?)

    There’s the top four.

  109. 109.

    Mandalay

    @gogol’s wife:

    He has no intention of becoming president. Too much work.

    I think too much cost will be the reason. He has already run his mouth about how he can’t be bought because he doesn’t take money from anyone else.

    When Trump realizes that he will have to spend hundreds of millions of his own money to lose to a woman he will walk away.

  110. 110.

    Cacti

    @KG:

    I was just looking at some polling numbers. he’s now leading in New Hampshire, he’s within the margin of error in Iowa, and he’s got a double digit lead in Nevada. That’s three of the first four states. It’s entirely possible that he could win the nomination. But I’m looking more at the general election, when he has to appeal to more than the GOP (which, based on some numbers I’ve seen is third in registration numbers behind Democrats and Independents). If he were to tell Hillary Clinton, during a debate, “now listen here, little lady…” he’d be lucky to break 40% of the vote in November (which is still sadly too high).

    I think The Donald has a very good chance of being successful enough in the GOP primaries to prevent a rival from winning it outright. The more obnoxious he gets, the more the base loves him.

    He’s also white and male, and is without the built in “disadvantages” that plagued Bachmann or Cain.

  112. 112.

    boatboy_srq

    @KG:

    he seems so emotionally unstable that he would lash out not just at rivals or enemies but at allies

    All any nation that does not want a negotiated agreement with the US would have to do would be send as negotiator a nursing mother, and require that she bring her breast pump and equipment to all the negotiation sessions where Trump participated.

    (H/T MustangBobby at BBWW)

  114. 114.

    Calouste

    @Jeffro: Romney hardly ever polled below 15%, and quite often above 20%. Rubio and Cruz have hardly ever polled above 10%, and most of the time around 6-7%. They don’t really count.

  115. 115.

    Cacti

    @Jeffro:

    In this case, we have Jeb!, Cruz, Walker, and Rubio always near the top of the polls, such as they are. (They’re also the ones who were recently summoned to yet another audition before the Kochs, weren’t they?)

    There’s the top four.

    I imagine the confab going something this.

    Charles Koch: “David and I are pleased with the four of you, and will pledge our resources to whomever is left standing. But to help us decide, we have one small request…”

    David Koch: “Get on all fours and bark like a dog.”

    Charles Koch: “And not a yippy dog either. We want a deep, full throated, hound dog bark.”

    Bush, Cruz, Walker, Rubio (dropping to all fours immediately): ROOOOOOOOOOOF! ROOOOOOOOOOOF! ROOOOOOOOOOF!

  116. 116.

    boatboy_srq

    @Mandalay: Not so sure of that. He only needs to spend his own money in the primary: assuming he does become the GOTea nominee, the party machinery picks up from there. So he doesn’t have to spend his entire net worth, and he doesn’t stay on the hook until November: he just has to be the last clown standing on his own, and only until July.

  117. 117.

    Elizabelle

    Read the Bloomberg pieces. Yecch. What is wrong with these people? (And they got compensated for their time, mind you.)

    This focus group is thrilled it’s getting George Wallace in a hairpiece and a Falcon Jet.

  118. 118.

    Hungry Joe

    Trump stands out and has lasted this long because he is fundamentally different. The other GOP contenders are all maintaining certain degree of in-house civility, while Trump blithely calls this one an idiot and that one a loser. When confronted with a fact at odds with his belief, he responds not as a typical pol — with obfuscation and word-salad blather — but simply with the line “I don’t believe it.”

    All this plays well with a not-insignificant segment of the GOP. These Trump supporters aren’t going anywhere for a while, and I don’t think he is, either: The ultimate narcissist blowhard now stands on one of the highest podiums of all — “Look at MEEEEEEEE!” I doubt he’s ever been happier.

  119. 119.

    Cacti

    @cmorenc:

    Well, I do agree that Trump is the GOP candidate we ALL need – someone who nakedly exposes the greedy xenophobic ugliness of what the Republican party has become and who is incorrigibly incapable of being tamed by either Frank Luntz, Koch money, or Roger Aisles into being mendaciously soft-spun into anything other than what he truly is. Someone whom most hard-core wingnuts and hard-core GOP partisans will gladly follow down into the rabbit-hole of a devastating electoral defeat in 2016.

    No less than a former Reagan staffer wrote a piece for Politico that the best thing that could happen to the GOP in 2016 would be for Trump to get crushed by Clinton for the reasons you describe.

  120. 120.

    mai naem mobile

    I don’t think money is an issue for Trump in the general, because if he wins the nomination, the RNC would have to come in and do the paperwork/ organizational piece of it. I don’t think the primary is an issue because he’s not advertising and that’s where the big $$$ go. I think he himself will drop out like Perot with some self serving BS reason.

  122. 122.

    Jeffro

    @Calouste: Yeah but there’s eighty kajillion GOP candidates this time out…plus Trump is sucking up the ‘seriously stupid’ vote. Once he flames out, those supporters have to go somewhere. Nickel bet says come February we’re looking at those four plus maybe 1-2 more max.

  125. 125.

    Iowa Old Lady

    I’d rather Trump win the Iowa caucuses than Walker. When push comes to shove, a majority of people won’t vote for Trump, but Walker could fool them.

    Maybe.

    Assuming he’s ready for the big stage.

  126. 126.

    Botsplainer

    Y’know what’s been missing so far? Any talk about Trump’s Victims in his bankruptcy filings.

    That’s about a size 16 set of workboots, ready to go straight up his ass. His fans will love it, but self-identified independents will be appalled on a 2-1 scale.

  127. 127.

    Jeffro

    @Cacti:

    Bush, Cruz, Walker, Rubio (dropping to all fours immediately): ROOOOOOOOOOOF! ROOOOOOOOOOOF! ROOOOOOOOOOF!

    I think that is spot-on (unfortunately). Walker’s so thoroughly bought by them at this point, I think he would have anticipated the command and already been barking as the other three were dropping down to all fours.

  128. 128.

    Elizabelle

    @mai naem mobile: Caught the very end of Morning Ho this morning, the “what did you learn segment”?, while switching channels.

    Intoned Mark Halperin: “I learned there are thoughtful voters in New Hampshire.”

    Oh oh, I thought.

    CNN recap: On as background noise today, but it seemed CNN had MH370 and “Trump!” as every other segment. Dana Bash interview with the Donald yesterday was in heavy rotation.

    I missed an interview with Samuel DeBose’s sister, Trina, regrettably.

    Was dozing through most, but CNN seemed to be all flaperon and flap.

    The BBC does not do this. They can handle simultaneous stories.

  129. 129.

    Jeffro

    @Botsplainer: What?? “Creative destruction” or “unbridled capitalism” or simply “The Market” (all hail The Market) is all he’ll have to say. These folks that support Trump truly, truly do love the hand that cracks the whip. He’ll never go down because of sympathy for people he’ll paint as rent deadbeats or greedy holdouts.

  130. 130.

    boatboy_srq

    @Mandalay: That alone should be sufficient to disqualify him for election to any post higher than Brewer of (for?) the TEA Party.

  132. 132.

    mai naem mobile

    @Cacti: Walker will ask them if they want him to lick their balls. Bush will do the begging pose. Rubio will offer to fetch something they throw and Cruz will take off his jacket and rip it up in pieces with his teeth in a demonstration of what he will do to the enemies of the Kochs if he becomes president.

  133. 133.

    Applejinx

    If we can get Trump as the Republican candidate, I’d really like to see Bernie Sanders as the Dem.

    He’d take maybe half the ‘straight talking man’ fanboys away from Trump, just by existing. These people are deciding between Trump and Sanders and dismissing everybody else. Not running Sanders guarantees they’ll go straight to Trump.

  136. 136.

    kc

    @Botsplainer:

    Y’know what’s been missing so far? Any talk about Trump’s Victims in his bankruptcy filings.

    You think the “victims” are going to be that sympathetic?

  138. 138.

    Mandalay

    @boatboy_srq: A fair point – he would probably only need to spend in the tens of millions to secure the nomination. But I stand by my other argument: he’s not going to get into a presidential race that he would clearly lose, and lose very badly.

    Just becoming Clinton’s opponent would be the biggest achievement in their life for some of his rivals, but Trump wouldn’t entertain entering a race he couldn’t possibly win. He has to be the top guy, the winner, always.

  140. 140.

    boatboy_srq

    @Mandalay: Interesting thought: can we hope that Trump wins the nomination before he gets bored and returns to private life?

  141. 141.

    Epicurus

    @Elizabelle:

    This focus group is thrilled it’s getting George Wallace in a hairpiece and a Falcon Jet.

    I think you just won this thread. I know you have won my heart. That is one damn fine piece of writing. Kudos.

  142. 142.

    Calouste

    @Jeffro: That assumes Trump flames out. That’s far from a certainty, he is a known quantity to many voters and has been for years.

  143. 143.

    Roger Moore

    @shell:

    Does anybody have a clue just WHAT the Republican cause is anymore?

    Their cause is threefold (in no particular order):

    1) To lower taxes on the rich
    2) To make life miserable for anyone who isn’t rich, white, Christian, heterosexual, and male
    3) To piss off liberals

  144. 144.

    Calouste

    @boatboy_srq: I don’t think Trump will ever get bored of getting attention, and he won’t get more attention in his life than when he is the candidate.

    @Mandalay: Romney was deluded enough to think he was going to win until the last moment, even when the polls were all against him. Trump is going to be deluded enough to think he is going to win 5 months out, even with bad polling.

  145. 145.

    Mandalay

    @Hungry Joe:

    When confronted with a fact at odds with his belief, he responds not as a typical pol — with obfuscation and word-salad blather — but simply with the line “I don’t believe it.”

    That’s exactly what happens when interviewers correct Ann Coulter. When she spewed drivel about Canada’s troops in the Vietnam War, and the host politely but firmly told her that Canada was not a participant, she just said “I think you’re wrong…I think you’re wrong”.

    Truth be damned, just accuse your accuser. If you concede even the possibility that you are wrong your whole edifice of bullshit comes crashing down.

  146. 146.

    Peale

    @Calouste: Yes, but if I recall, his foreign policy is predicated on making the countries we invade pay for our occupation by taking their resources. What could possibley go wrong?

  147. 147.

    jl

    @Roger Moore:

    ” 2) To make life miserable for anyone who isn’t rich, white, Christian, heterosexual, and male ”

    you forgot to add ”find a way to blame liberals, and one from a select group of minorities, for the misery of the non-rich whites”

  148. 148.

    Roger Moore

    @Mandalay:

    But I stand by my other argument: he’s not going to get into a presidential race that he would clearly lose, and lose very badly.

    Is he still in good enough touch with reality to understand that? This is actually a serious question.

  149. 149.

    Kropadope

    @Peale:

    Yes, but if I recall, his foreign policy is predicated on making the countries we invade pay for our occupation by taking their resources. What could possibley go wrong?

    How could our allies fault us for this? For being late to the game?

  150. 150.

    jl

    @Kropadope: I’m not sure about Peale’s point. How is the Trump Doctrine different from one of the favorite US neocon scare tactics (Molybdenum Crisis Ahead! We need to head off great rival X in Africa!!) or Cheney/Bush II?

  152. 152.

    Mandalay

    @Calouste:

    Romney was deluded enough to think he was going to win until the last moment, even when the polls were all against him.

    That’s true. I still don’t understand why Romney was so completely clueless about that when everyone else knew, and the evidence was so clear.

    I guess it’s like the situation where everyone except the spouse knows that their partner is cheating. I’ve actually seen that in real life and the levels of willful blindness and denial involved were incredible. I guess if we care about something enough we just see what we want to see.

  153. 153.

    Kropadope

    @jl: Cheney/Bush II invaded Iraq and had all the money go to U.S. petrochemical companies. I think the implication with Trump is that the taxpayers may actually benefit.

    Not that I think the hit to our international esteem is worth it.

  154. 154.

    boatboy_srq

    @Calouste: Losing is either frustrating or boring. My money’s on Trump getting bored long before he gets frustrated.

  155. 155.

    jl

    @Kropadope: Didn’t Wolfowitz testify before the Iraq invasion that the Iraqi oil money would pay for the war?

    I still believe that there is much less difference between Trump and other GOPers on substance than in style and delivery.

    Trump says stuff himself that others would delegate to political flunkies and hacks, is one big difference.

  156. 156.

    Mandalay

    @Roger Moore:

    Is he still in good enough touch with reality to understand that? This is actually a serious question.

    I don’t see any evidence at all that he isn’t in touch with reality, and he is under no more obligation than a politician to actually believe a word of what he says. As far as I can tell he is treating the media and the public as suckers, and getting away with it.

    Digby had an interesting quote from Goodfellas that gives some insight into Trump’s view of his fellow man, including his GOP presidential rivals:

    “To us, those goody-good people who worked shitty jobs for bum paychecks and took the subway to work every day, and worried about their bills, were dead. I mean they were suckers. They had no balls. If we wanted something we just took it. If anyone complained twice they got hit so bad, believe me, they never complained again…”

    And Trump is definitely more in touch with reality than losers like Graham, Gilmore and Pataki.

  157. 157.

    Calouste

    @boatboy_srq: Trump has to realize he is going to lose first. And with the GOP convention in June, that’s probably too early for him to realize. I’m sure Trump is convinced that he has this one weird trick that no political consultant wants you to know that will win him the presidency.

  158. 158.

    Disraeli

    The reference to electrolytes made me smirk (in a wry world weary vaguely superior sort of way).

  159. 159.

    Kropadope

    @jl:

    Didn’t Wolfowitz testify before the Iraq invasion that the Iraqi oil money would pay for the war?

    Wolfowitz said a lot of things about the war that weren’t true. Hell, if his original price tag estimate were correct, we wouldn’t have had to worry about oil revenue paying for it.

  160. 160.

    Sherparick

    @Brachiator: There is lots of anxiety among many of my pale skin friends about the Browns – even when you point out that most Browns have been living in the United for several generations, (in the case of some in New Mexico, Texas, and Florida since before first anglos showed up in Virginia and Plymouth). They speak Spanish and they are “hoovering” up more T-bone and Cadillac welfare benefits then even the Blacks (who are the original Not-Americans (as defined as white English speaking people) even though most of their ancestors arrived before 1808. It just makes them uncomfortable. They are “law breakers.” This anxiety, and Trump’s promise to do something about it is a pretty powerful force.

  162. 162.

    Roger Moore

    @Mandalay:

    I still don’t understand why Romney was so completely clueless about that when everyone else knew, and the evidence was so clear.

    I don’t think Romney was the only one who was surprised. Remember Karl Rove blowing up on election night? I think a lot of the Republicans had deluded themselves with the unskewed polls nonsense and were genuinely surprised when Obama won convincingly.

  163. 163.

    jl

    @Kropadope: The point I was trying to make was that there is nothing much new about the Trump Doctrine about making foreign countries pay for the cost of our invading them.

    Maybe Trump’s innovation is extension of that doctrine to making countries pay for whatever we decide that they should pay for, invasion or no. Mexico will pay for the yoooge classy wall Trump will build.

    Actually, a border wall that is already there, and working well enough to disrupt traditional seasonal farm worker travel schedules to cause labor shortages on CA farms. Which shows how much in touch with reality Trump, and his followers are. But here again, not really much difference between Trump and other GOPers on substance, since they will forever complain that there has been no progress on border security in order to stall immigration reform, no matter that in fact there has been substantial progress in many areas along the border. The other GOPers just use many syllables and sophisticated VSP approved jargon, while Trump yells “We need A Walll. I tell you, I will build the yooogest classiest completely foolproof and greatest border Wall ever built. The Chinese and the Israelis never dreamt of the The Wall I am going to build, I tell you for a fact!”

  164. 164.

    trollhattan

    @Roger Moore:
    When you vett your advise and support crew by how closely they agree with you, you’ll get a surprise or three when the Real World breaks through the carefully crafted paper wall.

  165. 165.

    jl

    @Sherparick: Well, have fun reminding your pale face friends that their feared brown threat may well be the voting block that decides the next president, and there is not one damn thing they can do about it.

  166. 166.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    As I read those quotes at the top, I can’t help but picture those people that The Onion uses for every single “ask the public” poll.

  168. 168.

    Pie Happens (opiejeanne)

    @gogol’s wife: Melania sounds like a disease. I looked her up and realized I’ve seen her before, probably on magazine covers. She looks a little the way I imagine Angua* looks in human form, except Angua is a blond. This is not a slam on her looks.

    *A werewolf character from Terry Pratchett’s Discworld books.

  169. 169.

    feebog

    At some point it is going to start dawning on these morons that all Trump has is a Don Rickles act without good punch lines. Someone on that debate stage next week who can string more than three words together without drooling on themselves (think Chris Christie) might just be able to cut through the noise and point out that the Donald has absolutely no policy positions.

  171. 171.

    NonyNony

    @KG:

    I was just looking at some polling numbers. he’s now leading in New Hampshire, he’s within the margin of error in Iowa, and he’s got a double digit lead in Nevada.

    Now look –

    It’s July. The Iowa Caucus is in February. That’s 6 months away.

    The political press is salivating for a news story that will get people to tune in and watch the 24 hour news channels. They WANT the presidential campaign to run as long as humanly possible because absent the rollout of a hot new war, presidential campaigns are where they get the highest ratings (and they get political ad buys on top of the ratings – it’s all gravy during a presidential campaign).

    All this is to say – don’t buy into the hype. Polls 6 months out showing that The Donald is within the margin of error of having 27% of Republican voters on board are pretty damn meaningless. Add in the fact that political reporters don’t seem to understand statistics (Trump’s unfavorable rating is now over 50% and continues to grow – the fact that he’s at 27% support now doesn’t mean much if his eventual ceiling ends up being somewhere around 40%) and you end up with Trumpmentum being a story fit for the silly season of August that somehow escaped backwards in time into July.

    He’s a circus monkey with a ferret on his head generating ratings for news channels. The only way he wins a primary is if somehow – miraculously – there are still 16 candidates in the race when Iowa hits AND he has a ground game in place ready to exploit it. I don’t think Trump is building a ground game – he’s too busy focusing on the “Trump brand”.

  172. 172.

    Gvg

    Rick Scott got elected in Florida as an outsider with no political background. his first several years he managed to be hated by all the long term legislators or his “own” party. trump is also unconnected to his nominal party which means he doesn’t understand he can’t actually do anything without a party support. If our electorate wasn’t pretty ignorant, they would know that too. it’s a pretty important ignorance.

  173. 173.

    Mike G

    “He would surround himself with the best and the brightest”

    Well, we know from experience the Bushes don’t.

  174. 174.

    mclaren

    @burnspbesq:

    Between Trump and Windows 10 and sleazy tax avoidance lawyers like burnspbesq, I think we’ve forfeited the right to refer to ourselves as a civilized country.

    There, fixed that for ya.

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