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You are here: Home / Much Too Sad to Be Told

Much Too Sad to Be Told

by | 273 Comments

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I get no kick from the outing of 32 million Ashley-Madison customers. It’s a site marketed to “cheaters”, so I guess we’re supposed think that they “got what was coming to them”, but it’s not like they joined Ashley-Madison in order to force the deportation of undocumented immigrants or to abolish the minimum wage. So live and let live, I say, with one exception: Josh Duggar.

Josh, who molested his sisters as a young man, then went on to work for the Family Research Council, a registered hate group, is the oldest son of the Quiverfull Duggars of “19 Kids and Counting” fame. He and the rest of the Duggars are poster kids for abstinence until marriage, not using contraception, and generally Jesusing up the joint with their own patriarchal flavor of Jesus Juice. So the discovery that Josh had two Ashley-Madison accounts is almost enough for me to believe that Jesus really is a deity, because he visited some serious retribution on one of the most prominent sinners in his flock.

My hope – or dare I say prayer – is that Jesus keeps it going. I wonder which other members of the Christian bedroom police will be caught up in this revelation? I’m hoping for Huckabee, but he’s probably too smart to register for this site with a credit card billed to his address.

Reader Interactions

273Comments

  2. 2.

    BGinCHI

    I’m thinking if Hillary’s name pops up there she is going to get a solid bounce.

    Same for Bernie Sanders, actually.

  3. 3.

    Robin G.

    I’m wondering if this means my bookstore can finally stop carrying “Growing Up Duggar” in the parenting self-help section.

  6. 6.

    kindness

    I just saw this over at Wonkette. I’ve never seen 900 comments on a Wonkette post but this one got ’em.

    Maybe Josh is secretly a fundamentalist Mormon too?

  9. 9.

    Mike J

    I’ve always thought that untargeted, indiscriminate data dumps were a bad idea. Targeted leaks to address a specific topic, I’m all for.

  10. 10.

    redshirt

    I know this story!

    He cries and begs forgiveness from Jesus for his sins and the Holly Rollers forget these horrible lies from the LIBERAL MEDIA click here to donate!

  11. 11.

    Derelict

    Wow! A hyper-Christian turns out to be just as human as all the people he deplores. I’m just so shocked.

    What’s really sad about all of this is that the True Believers will never abandon half-wit frauds like the Duggars. No matter what a Duggar does, it’s all something Jesus or The Devil has concocted as a trial, and it’s seen as evidence of the blessing of the deity that such a stumbling block was placed before the elect.

  12. 12.

    Mark B.

    Jared Fogle and Josh Duggar walk into a bar. Upon seeing that everyone there is over 21, they turn around and leave. …

  13. 13.

    pseudonymous in nc

    I’m with mistermix here: it’s very easy to chortle at the people who show up in the Ashley Madison database, but there are plenty of places online where you confide, and for most of them, the main reason the information hasn’t leaked out is because nobody’s felt inclined to hack ’em.

    Josh Duggar, though, can take the fall for everyone else.

  14. 14.

    JPL

    @Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: It’s sad and hopefully the radiation treatments, give him some extra time. It appears they still don’t know where the melanoma originated.
    As a reminder to all of us, use sun screen and wear a hat when working outdoors.

    Carter did one thing in office that no other President has achieved and that is a lasting treaty with Israel and Egypt.

  16. 16.

    Helmut Monotreme

    I can’t even enjoy schadenfreude over what happened to Josh Duggar. What choice did he have? He grew up in a badly designed religious experiment, an evangelical themed Skinner box, and it bent him like a corkscrew. I can’t speak to his nature, but his nurture was a few standard deviations outside the norm, and that certainly had to help to turn him into a deviant. He grew up home schooled in a cult that already had some very mixed up ideas about sex and gender roles and he has demonstrated pretty clearly that he has a hard time staying inside the bounds of acceptable behavior. I’m worried about what he’s done, and what he’s capable of doing, because of what has been done to him.

  17. 17.

    JPL

    I’d like to think the Duggars’ grifting days are over but Sarah Palin has proved that theory wrong, over and over.

  18. 18.

    different-church-lady

    Once again everyone misses the point. It’s fun to talk about Ashley Madison due to the morality play angle. The website and the people on it are “getting what they deserve.” The hackers get to be viewed as the good guys, the benevolent vigilantes.

    But what we really ought to be worried about is what happens when a perfectly reputable company or organization gets hacked just as big, by hackers who aren’t benevolent about who they target.

    It’s one of the reasons I try to minimize the amount of information I hand out on-line. I do not sign up for auto-pays. I don’t give out my real name if there’s any way I can avoid it. I don’t link my bank accounts to pay services.

    Obviously in our modern world there’s no way to go entirely off the info-grid, but I think people ought to be making smarter decisions about who they share with. We’re all in danger of having our lives turned upside down, even if none of us are cheating pedophiles.

    ETA: pseudonymous in nc beats me to it, in a far more concise way.

  20. 20.

    cmorenc

    @redshirt:

    He cries and begs forgiveness from Jesus for his sins

    A central premise of Christianity is that sins can be forgiven through God’s grace and gift to humanity of his son Jesus dying on the cross. Duggar is but one of many self-proclaimed fundamentalist Christians who take that promise as a gift card to go shopping in the more enticingly seamy sections of the Garden of Eden Sin Store.

  22. 22.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    I read Wonkette’s article on this yesterday. I’m pissed because it actually made me feel really sorry for Josh Duggar, who deserves nobody’s pity.

    I’m a CEH, so hacking and the study thereof is a hobby and occasionally more than that. Almost all attacks are for financial gain, those that aren’t are usually nation-state acts of warfare. Sony, for example, was both. This attack was for financial gain (they got 32 million credit card numbers) disguised as some bullshit attempt at moralizing.

    Problem is, unlike a simple financial theft, this really will ruin quite a few people’s lives. People often have very unsatisfying marriages that, for whatever reason, they can’t leave. I’m not going to judge that. That’s their problem, and it should have been allowed to remain their problem. These guys should have just taken their credit card numbers and walked away.

  26. 26.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    I can’t even enjoy schadenfreude over what happened to Josh Duggar. What choice did he have? He grew up in a badly designed religious experiment, an evangelical themed Skinner box, and it bent him like a corkscrew. I can’t speak to his nature, but his nurture was a few standard deviations outside the norm, and that certainly had to help to turn him into a deviant. He grew up home schooled in a cult that already had some very mixed up ideas about sex and gender roles and he has demonstrated pretty clearly that he has a hard time staying inside the bounds of acceptable behavior. I’m worried about what he’s done, and what he’s capable of doing, because of what has been done to him.

    @Helmut Monotreme: This is pretty much how I feel about the poor fucker. He never had a shot at being normal, but he sure wanted to be.

  27. 27.

    Waldo

    I’d be shocked if Josh didn’t try to parlay this into a new TLC show: “19 Trysts and Counting”

  28. 28.

    randy khan

    I’m really trying to avoid any kind of joy over the Duggar revelations, because the broader issue is really serious. There’s all sorts of data out there on so many of us that these kinds of things really potentially affect everyone.

    Sadly, I don’t know what the answer is. In today’s society, where so much happens online, there isn’t really an option to keep information out of the stream, so I think we’re just going to see more and more of this.

  29. 29.

    Eric U.

    @redshirt: the gays made him do it

    @randy khan: I am afraid the internet is going to spell the ruin of our economy. So many stupidly run companies deciding to put so much important data online without proper security.

  39. 39.

    boatboy_srq

    @different-church-lady: Far too much is far too available, and far too much is demanded in exchange for the conveniences on offer. What’s different now is the popular disconnect between one’s own equipment (PC, smartphone) and the global information marketplace. Not so very long ago store credit was insulated both by technology and by retailers’ commitment to maintaining customer privacy. “Commoditizing” customer data is now the order of the day. Same with frequent flyer/buyer programs and other marketing schemes.

    I for one am wondering what would happen if a service like Grindr were penetrated by either FRC or FSB: in each case there would be much public shaming, but in the latter case there would be legal implications, as any Russian user would become a government target and vulnerable to arrest and prosecution. Social media is horribly vulnerable, and the potential abuses are myriad. Ashley Madison is comparatively fair game: hitting it from the left exposes the hypocrisy of the “traditional marriage” set, and from the right keeps the ranks of the Righteous Elect small and those of the Sinning Masses large enough that the guilt-grift machine will keep running. But there are countless other places with far less overtly-inappropriate intentions which are similarly exposed; and between ongoing failures of social media to address user privacy and the number and range of interests who would find sensitive user data useful to exploit the opportunities are far more numerous than any of us should feel comfortable with.

  41. 41.

    WereBear

    @Helmut Monotreme: While the Goddard/Pearl cultists have created a freakin’ educational program to create abusers, they don’t always reach this magnitude.

    Some of it is on him.

  42. 42.

    boatboy_srq

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: Underage sexual escapades aside, stepping out on his marriage puts him closer to “normal” than any of us should feel comfortable with. I try to be sympathetic, but Duggar just keeps asking for it.

  43. 43.

    redshirt

    The solution is simple: Stay off line. Don’t sign up for stuff. Tear up your credit cards. Use cash only. Avoid cameras. Live like John Connor avoiding Skynet.

  45. 45.

    ET

    What is sad about this is that the oldest Dugger being on this really is really no surprise at all.

  47. 47.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    I am afraid the internet is going to spell the ruin of our economy. So many stupidly run companies deciding to put so much important data online without proper security.

    @Eric U.: During software development, security is literally the last thing on the list of features to be implemented, and the item that gets the least amount of money/resources allocated to it.

    I keep telling people, we’re just coasting along in blissful ignorance here and the only thing that’s going to change that is that one day everyone in America is going to wake up, go to the ATM, and all your balances will be zero. Then and only then is this country going to start taking cybersecurity seriously.

  48. 48.

    phoebes-in-santa fe

    I’m hoping that list reveals the names of all the 2016 Republican presidential candidates, and those two idiots up Michigan, and, this is the biggie for me, MITT ROMNEY AND ALL OF HIS SONS.

    I don’t feel any compassion for these people or their families. They are all hypocrites ad deserve outing.

  53. 53.

    Mike J

    @boatboy_srq:

    Ashley Madison is comparatively fair game:

    No, it’s not. Anybody who makes his living as a professional moral scold should be fair game, but the other reprehensible users of the site shouldn’t be. Nobody really has a right to comment on anybody else’s marriage, even if they think they have all the info. Doing so is one of the reason decent people hate the FRC.

  54. 54.

    NonyNony

    @randy khan:

    I’m really trying to avoid any kind of joy over the Duggar revelations, because the broader issue is really serious.

    The only thing that makes me happy about all of these Duggar revelations is that they are finally being revealed as the frauds they are. Hopefully that will make some of the naive people who thought that the Duggars were showing them a legit “Christian lifestyle” that they should be aspiring to wake up and realize that what the Duggars were selling was bullshit and that the whole “Quiverfull movement” is a dangerous group of at best misguided people and at worst outright mental cases.

    But I feel bad for all 19 of the kids that they’ve dragged into their weird psycho-sexual 1950s ideal family cosplay that they call their lives.

  56. 56.

    ArchTeryx

    @Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: Worse, it’s melanoma, a cancer very difficult to treat once it’s metastasized, and is essentially invisible to the immune system.

    His lifespan’s probably measured in months at this point, but he’s a nonagenarian. He’s probably come to terms with the end of his life for some time now, and is just going to ride the train until the final whistle stop.

  58. 58.

    jonas

    Fundamentalism inevitably ends in hypocrisy because normal humans can’t adhere to its demands and stay sane. As Google trends has shown, there are more searches for hardcore porn in the Bible belt than anywhere else. Duggar gets *zero* sympathy and deserves every ounce of the shit he’s going to get for this. He’s not just a random schlub trying to hook up, he was a professional godbothering scold who made lots of money trying to use the government to punish precisely the kind of behavior he was engaging in.

    I’m looking forward to the day when one of the other Duggar kids comes out as gay, goes punk, tells his parents to go fuck themselves, moves to San Francisco with his trans partner and opens a medical marijuana dispensary. *That* would make a great reality show.

  62. 62.

    Amir Khalid

    I was surprised that Ashley Madison was a viable business in the first place. That there are people looking to cheat on their partners I knew, of course; but who among them would be so foolish as to provide personal details to an online broker? Common sense should tell you not to do that. (Rolls eyes.)

    It makes me sad to hear about Jimmy Carter, who is both a good man and a great one.

  63. 63.

    Mike J

    @jonas:

    I’m looking forward to the day when one of the other Duggar kids comes out as gay, goes punk, tells his parents to go fuck themselves, moves to San Francisco with his trans partner and opens a medical marijuana dispensary. *That* would make a great reality show.

    Didn’t Jay Baker wind up being liberal and inclusive, and sort of drug Tammy Faye that way?

  64. 64.

    Joel

    So live and let live, I say, with one exception: Josh Duggar.

    I’m not sure I make that exception, really.

    Cults heap abuse on women, but it’s not like men emerge unscathed, either.

  67. 67.

    Germy Shoemangler

    Did you all know that the rightwing blogosphere is lit up with “Ashley Madison accounts are full of Obama’s administration” stories?

    Thousands of clients using the affair-oriented Ashley Madison website listed email addresses registered to the White House, top federal agencies and military branches, a data dump by hackers revealed.

    The detailed data, released Tuesday, will likely put Washington, D.C., on edge. The nation’s capital reportedly has the highest rate of membership for the site of any city.

    Indeed, more than 15,000 of the email addresses used to register accounts were hosted on government and military servers.

    Buried in the list are emails that could be tied to multiple administration agencies, including the State Department and Department of Homeland Security, as well as several tied to both the House and Senate.

  68. 68.

    WereBear

    @Amir Khalid: Oh, it gets even better. Men who use the site buy “tickets” that lets them send messages to women’s accounts. Who may or may not reply. Who may or may not be real.

    It’s like the Perfect Scam.

  69. 69.

    Botsplainer

    I’m a little ashamed to say it, but as a family law guy, this will help me – so I’m cheerful about it.

    Something has occurred to me, however, that no news organizations have really addressed. Apparently, only 5% of the participants were real, live women, the others revealed by the dump to be men. To me, I’m guessing that most women on AM were paid sock puppets, thereby making the thing a giant scam with a zillion little hook conversations. It would be guaranteed that nobody would sue over the ripoff, and was beautiful as scams go before the hackers ruined the game.

    I happen to know one woman with dealings with AM. She and her husband are friends of ours. A few years ago her husband came to me after an awful fight – she got careless and left a mailbox open. Turned out she was hooking up two and three times daily through AM. I advised restraint and suggested that she was dealing with a mental health issue of compulsion because she hadn’t emotionally left the marriage. I thought counseling and perhaps some wiggle room about being monogamish could work to salvage a long marriage and her relationship with the kids. I’m happy to say they were able to keep it together.

  70. 70.

    p.a.

    So sad about J E Carter, but he has sure as hell left his mark. Fucking scumbag Khomeini. Without the hostage crisis he may have been a 2 term pres. Oh the ‘what ifs’…

  71. 71.

    JPL

    Do you think the Duggar family is waiting for Megyn Kelly to return from her vacation before making a statement?

  72. 72.

    Major Major Major Major

    This whole Ashley Madison thing makes me sick. Who the fuck are you to judge? They might not even have been cheating. People have arrangements.

    ETA: except for the hypocrisy aspect of course. But the vast majority of these people…

  73. 73.

    Botsplainer

    @Eric U.:

    I am afraid the internet is going to spell the ruin of our economy. So many stupidly run companies deciding to put so much important data online without proper security.

    Why keep your employee or customer data on computers that are not part of a dedicated, isolated intranet?

  77. 77.

    p.a.

    Not really up on AshleyMadison, but whatever happened to the poorly lit bar for this kind of thing? New paradigm, ha!

  78. 78.

    Botsplainer

    @WereBear:

    Oh, it gets even better. Men who use the site buy “tickets” that lets them send messages to women’s accounts. Who may or may not reply. Who may or may not be real.

    It’s like the Perfect Scam.

    I know an old con artist (he may still be alive) who quit the game and became an outstanding private investigator. He said that the best, most successful scams involve immorality or illegality. So that the victim can’t resort to going to law to help him recoup. He said it works best if you don’t score so much that it can’t be ignored.

  80. 80.

    Amir Khalid

    @p.a.:
    Poorly lit bar + Internet = AshleyMadison.

    At least, I think that was their business idea. But like I said …

  81. 81.

    JustRuss

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    Indeed, more than 15,000 of the email addresses used to register accounts were hosted on government and military servers.

    In a world awash in free email services, it’s hard to believe anyone in Obama’s administration could be that stupid. We have millions of government employees, the fact that only 15,000 were stupid enough to use their work email is actually kind of encouraging.

  82. 82.

    NonyNony

    @Botsplainer:

    Why keep your employee or customer data on computers that are not part of a dedicated, isolated intranet?

    Well, first of all most companies don’t have a dedicated, isolated intranet.

    What they have is an intranet that is directly connected to the Internet, but they throw up a little device called a “firewall” and convince themselves that this will keep all the big bad Internet baddies out of their network. They then poke all kinds of holes into their firewall to allow outside access for their employees so that they can do their jobs.

    An actual dedicated intranet would require two separate machines for everyone who needs internet access to do their work – an expense that nobody is going to sign off on until security breaches become more expensive than computers and suppport. And that’s before we get to companies that collect financial information via websites and so are required to have a connection between the Internet and their customer information databases somehow – they can’t move customer information to a dedicated intranet because their business model requires it to be accessible to the Internet.

    ETA: In that last category? Every bank that allows you to access your account via an online interface. Piddly companies like Ashley Madison are nothing compared to the amount of financial information protected only by a few firewalls and the competency of the banks’ system administrators.

  83. 83.

    randy khan

    @Eric U.: This is a strong argument for services like Apple Pay that, among other things, don’t actually pass your credit card information along to the vendor. (Apple Pay uses a one-time-only authorization code for each transaction. While I don’t know the details of the Google system or whatever Samsung is doing, I presume they must be similar.) Disconnecting payment from your online identity is a big deal.

  84. 84.

    Botsplainer

    BTW – I thought there was an article yesterday with quotes from the chief IT officer from AM. He was trying to claim that there was no way that the paywall had been breached – that the existence of CC data made it a fake. Meanwhile, every IT security consultant asked said “it’s real”.

    Nothing they’ve said to date has been true, and given this 95-5 ratio, it’s a scam.

    FTC needs to hit them, hard, like yesterday.

  86. 86.

    Gin & Tonic

    @different-church-lady: Of course DC will have a high proportion of people looking for this sort of arrangement, just as Ottawa apparently does/did. Put driven, ambitious people in a boring company town, possibly away from their family, and what do you think will happen?

  87. 87.

    NotMax

    Ashley-Madison has a site
    Security is far from tight
    And now the names to Ashley sent
    Have ample reason to lament

  88. 88.

    alhutch

    The only people I feel any sympathy for are the Duggar girls (and family friend) that Josh abused and were most likely never properly counseled or protected (thanks to their crazy, fame whore parents). I’m glad that the horrid TV show is dead and buried, hopefully representing a cautionary tale for future fundies that want to “spread the word”. As a coda, the Duggar kids should sue for the parental version of malpractice.

    Regarding the Ashley Madison users, it’s pretty simple. When someone engages in risky behavior, it often does not end well. They should all take heart though, as they didn’t end up dead in a run down motel after a Craigslist hookup gone bad.

  93. 93.

    Roger Moore

    @Amir Khalid:

    That there are people looking to cheat on their partners I knew, of course; but who among them would be so foolish as to provide personal details to an online broker?

    I think it makes more sense than you do. Cheating on your spouse inevitable entails a degree of risk of getting caught, whether by an intended partner revealing your secrets or by having an organized ring like Ashley Madison outed en masse. People might have reasonably decided that it was safer to risk the en masse outing in exchange for a reduced chance of having a partner with second thoughts.

  95. 95.

    RSA

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    During software development, security is literally the last thing on the list of features to be implemented, and the item that gets the least amount of money/resources allocated to it.

    It’s worse than that (as you doubtless know), because security usually can’t be added as a feature, in the same way that new functionality can often be. Security issues need to be addressed pretty much everywhere in a system, from the high-level architecture all the way down to fiddling bits. Not to mention how the system fits into people’s activities.

  96. 96.

    Another Holocene Human

    @phoebes-in-santa fe: Mormon men are allowed to enter into multiple spirit marriages with other women. Mainstream Mormons only rejected this doctrine so that Utah could be a state, but the Old Mormon Church (never accepted Brigham Young’s authority) and the FLDS (you know, the freakazoids) and plenty of unchurched Mormons out West are keeping the dream alive.

  98. 98.

    Another Holocene Human

    @Mike J:

    No, it’s not. Anybody who makes his living as a professional moral scold should be fair game, but the other reprehensible users of the site shouldn’t be.

    This.

    The whole data dump was gross and I’m put off by the people gleefully sifting through it.

    Like you’re a perfect paragon all the time. (If you were, you’d be too busy feeding the homeless to care.)

  99. 99.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    @different-church-lady:

    I don’t think people realize just how severe the hack was – they didn’t just grab customer information:

    The leak also includes PayPal accounts used by Ashley Madison executives, Windows domain credentials for employees, and a large number of proprietary internal documents. Also found: huge numbers of internal documents, memos, org charts, contracts, sales techniques, and more.

    This is bad. This is “put the whole company out of business” bad. This kind of points to it being an inside job as well. It happened to AM this time, it could happen to, say, Fidelity, or Schwab, or your local bank next time.

    Meanwhile, JEB! wants to make it easier for the NSA to hack your data.

    Wonder how Huckabee is going to spin this. I mean, he has to be able to spin it, he’s already far too invested in defending his good friends the Duggars to back off now.

  100. 100.

    NonyNony

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    During software development, security is literally the last thing on the list of features to be implemented, and the item that gets the least amount of money/resources allocated to it.

    And on top of that – no amount of money sunk into development at your company is going to do anything for a hack that exploits a browser problem or an OS flaw or any other third party app your project is using. So even if your company wanted to triple the budget for security and do it all up front, they could STILL be taken out by a vulnerability discovered in a database or web server that wasn’t caught.

    And that’s before we get into social engineering hacks. We could have the best, tightest, most secure infrastructure in the world and it won’t matter if your users respond to a random call or e-mail that claims to be from the “help desk” by providing them with their username and password (which, I’ve been told by my friends who work in security, apparently tends to be a more common way that hackers get into systems than any single software flaw.)

  102. 102.

    Amir Khalid

    @Roger Moore:
    I don’t know about that. I tend to see the risks of providing personal info to an online broker as distinct from those of cheating per se, and when you do those two things together you add their risks up.

  103. 103.

    Another Holocene Human

    @jonas:

    I’m looking forward to the day when one of the other Duggar kids comes out as gay, goes punk, tells his parents to go fuck themselves, moves to San Francisco with his trans partner and opens a medical marijuana dispensary. *That* would make a great reality show.

    They’re all horrible, judgmental, non-empathetic moral scolds and gay-baiters who really think their shit doesn’t stink. After all, they were told at a young age that all their horrific suffering was worth it because it made them closer to Gawd™. So closer they go. This is the only path other than suicide and running away for women in these patriarchal cults. Turn into a terrible, cruel, nasty, hypocritical, stuck-up, bigoted person with no sympathy for anybody, least of all your own children.

    The paterfamilias is a terrifying creep, and his wife is an unblinking robot. Every single one of those kids is warped and twisted by their upbringing. You can feel sorry for them … to a point. But if they all choose to be haters … that’s their choice. Have a nice life.

  105. 105.

    EconWatcher

    I used to practice criminal defense, and when we were preparing our clients to make statements at sentencing, we used to try to lighten things up by jokingly saying that we recommended “the full Swaggart” (for those of you who remember the famous clip of Swaggart weeping torrents of tears and drawling “I have sinnnnnned” after he was caught with a hooker).

    I’m sure we’ll see the full Swaggart from young Josh.

  106. 106.

    Pie Happens (opiejeanne)

    @Major Major Major Major: My mother had an arachnoid cyst, possibly since birth. She had a shunt placed in her skull to drain it and that relieved the pressure causing the headaches, although I don’t remember her complaining of headaches. She was in her 60s at the time. 20 years later it stopped being effective and a new, better shunt was installed.

  107. 107.

    Another Holocene Human

    @Mike J: Unfair to Tammy Faye. She was always sympathetic to gay people despite being raised Assemblies of God, and expressed that on TV in the 80s in the height of the AIDS crisis when it wasn’t fashionable to do so. (Not saying she was pro-same-sex-marriage, but you have to realize this is a time when people were calling for quarantines of all gay people and executing the “homos” and so on. Having a gay person on her show and actually physically touching them was a big deal.)

  109. 109.

    Linnaeus

    @Botsplainer:

    The example of your acquaintance and her husband is a good reason, among others, why I can’t sign on to “they deserved it and they should be outed”. I may not feel any strong sympathy for any of those affected, because that’s not a world that I travel in, but people and their relationships are complicated. It’s not for me to make judgements on those, especially when the only information I have is, “person X was on Ashley Madison”.

  112. 112.

    Roger Moore

    @Botsplainer:

    He said that the best, most successful scams involve immorality or illegality.

    I assume that’s the meaning of the old saying that you can’t cheat an honest man. It’s not actually true, but the advantage of cheating dishonest people is that you can do it in a way where they don’t think they have recourse to the law.

  113. 113.

    NonyNony

    @Amir Khalid:

    I tend to see the risks of providing personal info to an online broker as distinct from those of cheating per se, and when you do those two things together you add their risks up.

    The thing is – any population has idiots in it. What Ashley Madison is doing isn’t all that different from what Nigerian e-mail scammers are doing, except that it would be blatantly illegal to put up a website saying “we’re trying to get money out of Nigeria and we’ll give you a cut – submit your bank account number below for your cut”. It’s not illegal to put up a hook-up site where everyone signing up knows that the other people using the site might be married.

    So they’re skimming off the idiots who can’t judge risk very well. A sufficiently large population is going to turn out a large number of idiots. And Ashley Madison was skimming however much they were charging a month from each of them. A nice racket, I suppose, if you have no scruples and are willing to scam your marks with phoney female “members”.

  114. 114.

    Peale

    @JustRuss: Yep. The daily beast was flogging the 10,000 employees number in their headline last night. But who really cares? Considering how many .gov email addresses there are, 15,000 “lazy, sloughing off on the job, employees” is really a blip. My company is large enough that I’m sure there will be more than a few employees among the 37M Ashley Madison users using their work e-mail, and we’re like 1% of the size of the government in terms of employees.

    10,000 isn’t really astronomical.

  115. 115.

    Mike E

    @redshirt:

    He cries and begs forgiveness from Jesus for his sins and the Holly Rollers forget these horrible lies

    Worse, they will now commence with kicking a true Christian paragon, because, Jimmy Carter.

    Mother. Fuckers.

  117. 117.

    Linnaeus

    @Amir Khalid:

    Well, yes, the risks you mention are additive in a sense. I can, however, understand why someone might make the calculation that she/he faces relatively less risk by using Ashley Madison instead of going the, ahem, more traditional route.

    For one thing, Ashley Madison, in theory at least, provides one with access to many more people, thereby increasing the possibility that one may meet another with little or no connection to them, which would decrease the possibility of being found out. Second, Ashley Madison allows one to do this by a method that is more efficient and requires less explaining about one’s whereabouts, time commitments, etc. that one would otherwise need to do.

  118. 118.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Who cheats on their marriage is none of our business. People lust. Damn near everybody lusts. What they want covers a ridiculously wide range. There is no ‘normal’, just which desires you personally disapprove of, and maybe can scrounge up some friends to disapprove of with you. I think outing Ashley-Madison customers is terrible. The adultery is the married couple’s business, not ours. Only they can decide who, if anyone, is hurt.

    …Josh Duggar, on the other hand, is a public moral scold. Public moral scolds have made their sex lives our business against our will, by trying to make everyone’s sex lives their business. Every moral scold who is revealed to be human like the rest of us reinforces that their policy of telling people not to be human is wrong.

  121. 121.

    trollhattan

    @phoebes-in-santa fe:
    Right there with you. He’s a sexual predator–with his sisters no less–and has aligned himself with the worst players in the Republican Party. His “job” consists of being a moral scold dedicated to making the lives of others worse.

    Most people raised in crappy family environments don’t grow up to be vile adults. This is all on him.

  122. 122.

    Roger Moore

    @Botsplainer:

    BTW – I thought there was an article yesterday with quotes from the chief IT officer from AM. He was trying to claim that there was no way that the paywall had been breached

    Which is still perfectly possible if it’s an inside job, which as far as I can see it gives every indication of being. Inside attacks are very challenging to prevent.

  126. 126.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    @RSA:
    @NonyNony:

    You both bring up an important point, the third party stuff that we need to build working software. And nothing is more vulnerable, and nowhere are you more at that third-party’s mercy, hoping that they’ve done their security correctly, as the database.

    And the big database vendors aren’t secure. When did Oracle stop using “scott” and “tiger” as a default superuser account? 2006? 2008? There’s still plenty of apps running on older Oracle installs that, put kindly, are not secure.

  128. 128.

    The Other Bob

    @Mark B.:

    Jared Fogle and Josh Duggar walk into a bar. Upon seeing that everyone there is over 12, they turn around and leave. …

    I fixed that age group for you.

  131. 131.

    Roger Moore

    @Amir Khalid:
    As I understand it, the point of Ashley Madison was that you were supposed to be hooking up with another person who had already decided to cheat on their spouse. That meant that they were also in a position to be outed and were strongly inclined to keep the affair a secret. That’s very different from trying to hook up in person, where there’s a much greater chance that your intended hook-up won’t be interested and might reveal everything.

  132. 132.

    Barry

    @WereBear: “The Duggars are going to have another scandal. It’s only a matter of time.”

    Yes:

    1) Josh was the oldest brother; there’s lots of crazy still coming up.

    2) Those girls went through H*ll in the case that we know of, with their parents treating them like sh*t. There are a number of them who’ll reach 18 and take advantage of their freedom.

  136. 136.

    Another Holocene Human

    @Barry: Those kids and even some of their spouses are dependent upon JimBob financially. The best thing that could happen is for the tv specials to dry up and JimBob to go bankrupt, giving the older siblings the impetus to do for themselves.

    They’re really screwed, though. They lack marketable skills (by design). And have mouths to feed. In John Boehner’s America. No welfare, no food stamps, no jobs training, no free childcare/VPK ….

  137. 137.

    scav

    @Major Major Major Major: While not fun, the option requiring brain surgery was actually the good option in my case, and that was despite the fact that the tumour was killing me. At least there was something concrete that could be done (yearlong headaches generally not a good first symptom). Took them three goes 20plus years ago, bit I’m still pleased with outcome. All the best.

  138. 138.

    Linnaeus

    @Cervantes:

    The vagaries of human relationships hold some interest for me. I have multiple friends and acquaintances (men and women) who have faced this issue (not Ashley Madison specifically, but the situation that it was founded to profit upon).

  139. 139.

    NonyNony

    @Another Holocene Human:

    They’re really screwed, though. They lack marketable skills (by design). And have mouths to feed. In John Boehner’s America. No welfare, no food stamps, no jobs training, no free childcare/VPK ….

    Optimistically, they will turn out to be object lessons for the hyper-religious on why homeschooling your kids and not sending them to college when you can afford it (yes, even the girls) is a lousy idea.

    Pessimistically – many of them will get jobs on the wingnut welfare circuit decrying the fact that the gubbmint has all kinds of money to hand out for free Obamaphones and T-bone steaks, but there’s no help for good Christian white people.

    Super pessimistically – TLC will start up a new reality show about a handful of the not-Josh kids trying to find jobs and make it in the big city with no marketable skills. The money from which will all go to Jim Bob, of course.

  141. 141.

    Sherparick

    @Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: On one hand it very sad, and I will pray that his suffering be eased. But he has had a wonderful, full life, and this is the journey to the “undiscovered country from whose bourne no traveler returns.” Bless him and his family. I will miss him.

  142. 142.

    Botsplainer

    @Linnaeus:

    I may not feel any strong sympathy for any of those affected, because that’s not a world that I travel in, but people and their relationships are complicated.

    This.

    Think of it like this – there would be a pretty substantial number of participants who may have, in a weak moment, dabbled on AM years ago out of curiousity, a fit of unfocused anger over some stupid battle, a bad time. Yet others have arrangements that are enthusiastically embraced by both parties to the marriage, that being deemed an erotic enhancement to their own lives (this can be anything from outright cuckoldry to shared wives, threesomes (both MMF and MFF) and swapping.

    Marriage and human sexuality are not monolithic.

  143. 143.

    NonyNony

    @Amir Khalid:

    That’s if people you encounter on Ashley Madison are what they say they are. Which is a pretty big “if”, it seems to me.

    To be honest, if I were a grifter looking to pull down some great blackmail, Ashley Madison would be a godsend. Two person operation – one reasonably attractive woman and one bruiser of a guy – pull in a guy and get pictures of him cheating on his wife. Then turn around and blackmail him into small monthly payoffs forever.

    In the old days, a grifter would have to do a lot of research and put themselves into some potential jeopardy given that they’d have to make physical contact and spend a lot of time talking to get around to the “meet me in this hotel room” part. Here the marks are just lining up begging to be fleeced.

  145. 145.

    PurpleGirl

    @NonyNony: IIRC, it might not have been with TLC but Bristol Palin was going to have a show with her trying to live in LA and work as a secretary (or something similar) and live with someone from the dancing show… show either didn’t get off the ground or ended way fast. Again another fundy girl without skills or the education to work to support herself and a family (who now has another one on the way).

  146. 146.

    Punchy

    I’m really trying to avoid any kind of joy over the Duggar revelations, because the broader issue is really serious.

    I’d certainly say this is, yes, quite a broad issue.

    /thanks, tip your waitresses

  147. 147.

    Barry

    @Mike J: “I think it was Gondorff who said in Maurer’s The Big Con, you can’t cheat an honest man/”

    Oh, you can – I’ve been cheated several times, in honest dealing.

    I would believe, however, that it’s far easier to cheat a dishonest person – it’s always under the table, information is limited, and you can’t call the police.

  149. 149.

    Kay

    @Another Holocene Human:

    They have a whole online community support group, people who “grew up Duggar”. It’s exactly as you say, too. They get out and they have real problems, because they have been misled about how academically prepared they are (they’re told they learn much more than other children) and they find out they’re way behind when they try to get training or go to college.

    They really stick together though, on this site anyway. They aren’t a monolith obviously and they disagree about a lot – some are still religious, for example- but they seem like they’re just really decent to each other (even online, and we know how nasty that can get).

    It’s a whole culture and it’s international. They have stories from Germany and some other places.

  152. 152.

    Poopyman

    @different-church-lady: Impossible for me at work to read through everyone’s comment, but how do we know Josh Duggar really was a member?

    Put in a more general way, there’s nothing stopping a hacker from executing a real hack and then lying about what they found.

    I’m crying no tears over Josh, but the potential for that kind of ratfking is huge.

    Sorry again, if someone already brought this up.

  153. 153.

    kc

    @Another Holocene Human:

    They’re all horrible, judgmental, non-empathetic moral scolds and gay-baiters who really think their shit doesn’t stink. After all, they were told at a young age that all their horrific suffering was worth it because it made them closer to Gawd™. So closer they go. This is the only path other than suicide and running away for women in these patriarchal cults. Turn into a terrible, cruel, nasty, hypocritical, stuck-up, bigoted person with no sympathy for anybody, least of all your own children.

    If only they could be more like, I dunno, you.

  154. 154.

    Punchy

    @kc: For me, status as a sex offender for the shit he did to his sisters. I know it cant happen absent the never-going-to-happen criminal charges, but that’s what he deserves.

  155. 155.

    catclub

    @randy khan: There was oe credit card issuer that for a while, had a way to generate need specific credit card numbers – that were all actually your account to the credit card issuer – but could be limited to one time use, or had a limited available balance. I guess that approach – getting a secure number from the issuer, was too sensible, and went away.

  156. 156.

    PurpleGirl

    @kc: Not sure if a statute of limitations has tolled yet, but some jail time. Definitely some jail time as is usual for his crime. And also being placed on a list of sexual offenders. Treat him as any other other person convicted of his crime would be treated. Let him and his parents experience the full consequences of their actions.

    A few days ago someone posted a YouTube of young singer (I’m spacing her name). I played one of the other songs at the site. It’s title (IIRC) was “God Can Forgive You but I Won’t”.

  157. 157.

    PurpleGirl

    @Kay: Have you ever read a site (now part of Patheos) called No Longer Quivering. It’s a blog started by Vicki Garrison after she escaped the Quiverfull movement. I haven’t read it in some time but it is interesting.

  158. 158.

    Ben

    @Helmut Monotreme: Fuck Duggar… he belongs in prison and then a special place in hell for eternity (as does his family for covering up the molestation of their daughters). Fucked up family, which is redundant for any family of JF’s.

  159. 159.

    Brandon

    Not that I support Josh Duggar, but I am curious how all of this public outing and shaming of people having affairs through this website is any different than Gawker’s public outing and shaming of that publishing exec having an affair on his wife and family? The former seems to be okay and we all snicker. The latter seemed to be rather publicly condemned.

  160. 160.

    jon

    That business was terrible. Not because it connected cheaters to other cheaters, but because it took money to do so but also didn’t follow through on simple obligations like canceling accounts of people who wanted to do that. Yes, they charged to do so, which is sleazy enough. But then they didn’t actually do it. They also were accused by the hackers of creating most of the women’s accounts on the site. 90-95% of them were not real. That’s extra sleazy.

    I’m not saying it’s a good thing that the site’s users were exposed, but destroying that company sounds like something I’d consider to be a good thing. And not because of cheating spouses. Cheating corporations deserve to be outed even more, as far as I’m concerned.

  161. 161.

    Calouste

    @Brandon: Josh Duggar is a public figure who has made statements against gays, who worked for the Family Research Council, and who in general wants to force a specific lifestyle on everyone, which he couldn’t live up to himself. The other person exposed by Gawker was not a public person and as far as anyone is aware, had not made any public statements about other people’s sex lives.

    tl;dr: It’s not the adultery, it’s the hypocrisy.

  163. 163.

    Amir Khalid

    @jon:
    Sleazy is as sleazy does. And it’s hard to imagine a sleazier business than an infidelity brokerage. Which, if I had a spouse and wanted to cheat, is one reason I wouldn’t dare do it through an online broker.

  164. 164.

    singfoom

    @kc: You do know that we’re ALL just normal human beings right? No one is completely pure and good. We all have weaknesses and secrets.

    BUT not ALL of us try to make others live by our moral code WHILE at the same time violating that moral code by heading a non profit dedicated to policing the lives of others.

    I think it’s perfectly reasonable to enjoy the outing of Josh Duggar’s information on AM since he was a god bothering moral scold and at the same time recognize that the hackers are no angels and that those exposed in the hack that AREN’T public moral scolds are victims.

    Also, if he molested children, he should be prosecuted (though I think the statute of limitations may have run out)

  167. 167.

    scav

    @Major Major Major Major: Doubt it. But as those relationships don’t involve the violation of trust (assuming they’re upfront about the situation) and aren’t exactly the target audience of the site (unless infidelity of other partner is a specific kink), the status seems rather tangential.

  170. 170.

    Another Holocene Human

    @Kay: I’ve noticed that kids raised fundie online tend to have very good written English communication skills.

    They don’t know shit about shit about the real world, science, other cultures, etc.

  171. 171.

    kc

    @Punchy:

    Thanks for answering.

    It happened when he was 14, though. You think he should have a legal status of “sex offender” for life?

  175. 175.

    kc

    @Brandon:

    Yeah, apparently we’re all cool with Gawker again now that the site is taking advantage of someone else’s massive hack and targeting people we don’t like.

  176. 176.

    Keith G

    @Helmut Monotreme: Indeed, it is very easy to verbally slap wrong doers around even those who may not have been given a fair shot.

    I somehow missed getting to know the Duggar family cultural presence, but what I have learned in the last month does not sound all that unfamiliar (unfortunately) except for the cameras and the TV contract.

    Fucked up parents raise a fucked up child, and hilarity ensues.

  177. 177.

    Tommy

    @kc: To abuse sexually “other” children. Bad enough. But he sexually abused his sisters. His own “blood.” That points to me something really, really messed up. More than just a sex offender.

  178. 178.

    PurpleGirl

    @kc: Yes. That is standard practice as per the laws establishing the offender lists. A man of any age dating and having sex with an underage female, even if it is consentual, will be placed on a list… if it isn’t fair for Josh Duggar then it shouldn’t be for anyone else. Sorry if that sounds cruel but that’s the law as it stands. Don’t like it, then change the law.

    Also further to consequences, I don’t want his parents or any sibling to have any TV show in the future. It is rumored (I won’t cite the site) that the parents are shopping the idea for a show wherein they counsel victims of child sexual abuse. Sorry, they didn’t get their own daughters the proper help, they don’t get to “counsel” any other child. They lose their TV salaries, find something else to do — become a waitress or a ditch digger for all I care.

  180. 180.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Put in a more general way, there’s nothing stopping a hacker from executing a real hack and then lying about what they found.

    @Poopyman: A brief forensic examination of the files would be enough to tell if there were any people added after the fact.

    In other words, there’s actually A LOT stopping a hacker from executing this sort of operation and then lying about what they found.

  181. 181.

    Tommy

    @PurpleGirl: Years ago I worked at a place where the owner’s daughter hit on me. At the time she was 16 and I was 25. She was “smoking hot.”

    I walked away from it because it was illegal. Later she tracked me down and we dated when she got older. Didn’t work out so well because she was 21 and I was in my 30a and I tend to prefer to date people my age.

  183. 183.

    Cervantes

    @Tommy:

    Sure.

    Me, I fully understand the urge to cover such things up — incest, abuse — but what I don’t understand at all is the desire and will to perpetrate them in the first place.

  185. 185.

    Gin & Tonic

    @PurpleGirl: My understanding is that there are more and more (unfortunately named) “Romeo and Juliet” laws, where the ages of both parties are taken into consideration.

    Duggar was 14 when this stuff happened. 14. That’s a difficult time sexually for people growing up in a well-adjusted household, let alone in a cult.

  187. 187.

    boatboy_srq

    @singfoom: I still don’t get all the sympathy for the rest of AM’s clients. They’re all stepping out on their spouses, and most of them are men stepping out on their wives. We’re in an age when women still bear the brunt of slvt-shaming just for being sexually active – and here again we’re coddling a bunch of guys who said “I do” and managed to insert “of the excitement” between “until death” and “do us part.” It’s not like we’re observing the publication of a swingers’ club membership or a list of singles from Match.com or Manhunt. I may not be avidly searching the list of clients for individuals to shame explicitly and publicly, but I don’t have especial sympathy for anyone who stomps all over a marriage contract, especially if done via the web.

    The DC beltway is chock full of people who married for ‘respectability’ and for ‘career’; it’s a good likelihood that a lot of the State/DHS/etc AM patrons are in loveless marriages of convenience agreed for specifically professional reasons (foisted on them by social mores that devalue singles, LGBTs and other Othered status indicators). That’s not a reason to protect those people; it’s a reason to challenge the archaic standard that to be successful in Washington you need a wife and 2.3 kids that you can show off to the boss and the clients. I’ve lost track of the folks on social media I’ve blocked who have hit on me, because their status is “married” or “partnered”; I’ve done that precisely because they’re not being honest with their partners which means they’re not going to be anything but a FB (possibly just one time) and because if the person they connected with officially and legally can’t trust them then I shouldn’t either.

    AM patrons may not deserve front-page public outing, but we shouldn’t be so quick to jump to their defense when the source of the publicity is a service tailored to people – mostly men – who can’t keep their flys buttoned.

  189. 189.

    Brandon

    @Calouste: So you are saying that because he is both (i) a public figure and a (ii) hypocrite its okay? And that that it is necessary to be both?

    So if someone was a public figure but not a hypocrite (as defined by you) that it would not be okay?

    I would counter with a few things. First, his status as public figure is mitigated by the fact that he was made a public figure by his parents when he was a minor. His public figure status was therefore conveyed to him by way of familial connection and without his consent, which I think is important and relevant to the Geithner example.

    Secondly, everyone is a hypocrite about something, so I don’t find that persuasive. He worked for one of many DC NGOs that lobby congress on several issues. Most, if not all of them are hypocrites in some way, e.g. a Sierra Club staffer who drives a mammoth SUV. Furthermore, I don’t necessarily agree with the statement that he is in fact a hypocrite. He was lobbying against marriage equality ostensibly on religious grounds. How does the fact that he is a cheater on his wife and family make him a hypocrite exactly?

    Lastly, I don’t understand how you have me here defending this turd, but there you go.

  190. 190.

    trollhattan

    @kc:
    He loses every shred of his current life as a paid public person. He has to go out into the real world and find actual, meaningful work, work that requires skills and showing up, and no trading on his name. He has to spend the next several years chasing his wife around while wearing kneepads, begging forgiveness. He has to beg his victim sisters for forgiveness and admit the prior bucket of rationales given for his vile behavior were just a smokescreen to make it all “go away” and that he actually did what he did and is now at their mercy.

    That’s what I want.

  196. 196.

    Brandon

    @trollhattan: I’m not sure that I agree with your premise that he is a “paid public person” and with that he loses certain rights and privileges conferred to the rest of us. Would you apply a similar standard to Chelsea Clinton?

    Granted, I don’t follow this family at all and am not up to date regarding his activity, however I am not very comfortable with the idea that anyone who engages in lobbying or activism becomes a “public person” and loses a right to privacy.

  197. 197.

    trollhattan

    @Brandon:
    Somebody asked what should happen to him and that’s what I think. He is, very specifically, a paid celebrity, just one who happens to make the random Kardashian look classy. It’s what he is, it’s what he does for a living. Once the public and paymasters decide he’s not worth their time and money, he has to join the rest of us in obscurity.

    How this relates to Chelsea Clinton I cannot begin to guess, so why don’t you share your thoughts on her criminal past et cetera.

  199. 199.

    JPL

    Josh apologized.
    I have been the biggest hypocrite ever. While espousing faith and family values, I have secretly over the last several years been viewing pornography on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife.

    mediaite

  202. 202.

    Tree With Water

    I’d never heard of either the woman or the website before yesterday.

    But had I been told that people would pay to have their names and personal information stored in an “adulterers database”, I would not have thought it likely- at all. Only PT Barnum’s “suckers” insight would have kept me from dismissing it altogether. Which means those people are all doomed to live and die as idiots. As always with members of that extended tribe, I bid them goodbye and good luck. Like idiots everywhere, they’ll need all they can get.

  204. 204.

    kc

    @PurpleGirl:

    Also further to consequences, I don’t want his parents or any sibling to have any TV show in the future.

    Not sure why you want to punish his siblings, but whatevah. As long as people are talking about them, there’s a good chance some bottom-feeding network (such as TLC) will figure out a way to get all or some of them back on the air.

    After all, someone at Gawker thought it would be a worthy use of time to comb the AM hacker info dump for the Duggar name. And then they got a shitload of clicks ($$$) by posting about it. And now BJ is posting about it.

  206. 206.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @kc: Have you considered being morally pure and avoiding websites that talk about AM and Josh Duggar?

  207. 207.

    Roger Moore

    @Brandon:

    His public figure status was therefore conveyed to him by way of familial connection and without his consent

    Maybe it was originally, but as an adult he was more than happy to cash in on his public figure status by finding a job that leveraged it. He’s now a public figure in his own right, and that’s more important than any status he might have received from his family connections.

  209. 209.

    Provider_UNE_AndPlayersToBeHatedLater™

    @Poopyman:
    As far as i know you are the first to bring this angle to the table.
    …@Brandon:

    In the case of the latter, he did not serve to make money off of the sanctimonious scolding of sinful behavior.

    I don’t think dugger deserves a pass, and many seem to agree that the rest should not have been exposed, unless they joined josh in benifitting from sanctimonious scolding.
    …

  211. 211.

    Calouste

    @Brandon:

    His public figure status was therefore conveyed to him by way of familial connection and without his

    His working for the Family Research Council on the other hand, and posing with big name Republicans, are things of his own doing. As are him staying on the family TV show after he turned 18. Look, the guy is 27. He has had 9 years of being an adult to shed his public figure status if he wanted to, and he didn’t do so.

    How does the fact that he is a cheater on his wife and family make him a hypocrite exactly?

    An amicus brief was submitted by the Council jointly with Focus on the Family, in the U.S. Supreme Court case Lawrence v. Texas, the case that overturned sodomy laws on privacy grounds.[52] The summary of the amicus curiae brief declares that “States may discourage the ‘evils’ … of sexual acts outside of marriage by means up to and including criminal prohibition” and that it is constitutionally permissible for Texas to “choose to protect marital intimacy by prohibiting same-sex ‘deviate'[53] acts”.[54] Similar positions have been advocated by representatives of the organisation since the Supreme Court case was decided in 2003.

    Do as the organization I work for tells you, don’t do as I do.

  215. 215.

    Germy Shoemangler

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    USA Today posted a preliminary demographic analysis of the leaked email addresses, which is potentially interesting from a sociological POV. Average age is 46.

    Interesting that their motto was “Life is short. Have an affair.”

    It seems perfectly suited for a man going through a mid-life crisis. Their marketing folks must have studied psychology.

  219. 219.

    Cervantes

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    That’s not what I said

    Well, what’s the difference between the two? On the one hand (your original, made appropriately specific):

    Have you considered being morally pure and avoiding [Balloon Juice]?

    And on the other hand (my version):

    “Love it or leave it!”

    Similar, no?

    And as for:

    and you are smart enough to know that.

    Apparently not!

  225. 225.

    Paul in KY

    @kc: Shamed & ridiculed & laughed at by all. Also, lawyers take all his money, so he has to work fast food or some very hard job that you get paid shit to do.

    Edit: Also be on Sex Offender for Life lists.

  226. 226.

    Germy Shoemangler

    @Shana:

    I always wondered how Papa Dugger managed to house and feed all those kids before the TV show happened. Were they on welfare? Living off his parents?

    Licensed realtor. Also owns a bunch of commercial properties. An investor. And Josh ran a used-car dealership.

    They know how to make money; that doesn’t seem to be a problem with them.

  229. 229.

    Brandon

    @Calouste: I will just end this saying a few things.

    If you sat down and tried to establish a clear criteria why Josh Duggar does not deserve privacy protections, I think you will find that your criteria would implicate lots of people who you don’t mean to.

    The tenor and tone of posts about this issue would be substantially different if this were a similarly situated individual who works for causes or promotes political positions you agree with. (I use Chelsea Clinton as an example because there may be several similarities in how they became “public”, how they personally leveraged that, and what they do in their careers).

    It seems that a lot of people here hate Josh Duggar, which is fair enough as it seems. However, my view is that they are letting this cloud their judgement regarding whether this outing is acceptable or not.

  231. 231.

    Germy Shoemangler

    @Poopyman:

    I’m crying no tears over Josh, but the potential for that kind of ratfucking is huge.

    The right wing blogosphere is lit up with claims that Obama and everyone in his administration is on the list, because of “whitehouse.gov” accounts.

    But I think it was pointed out in the Washington Post that there are a ton of spoof accounts, with Obama this and Obummer that, etc. But of course this won’t stop internet wingnuts from continuing to make that claim.

  240. 240.

    Brandon

    @Provider_UNE_AndPlayersToBeHatedLater™: So you find the subject of his activism abhorrent and therefore he deserves the public outing? How about this?

    “Chelsea Clinton advocates reducing income inequality through progressive taxation, but we’ve stolen her tax records and are releasing them online to demonstrate that she structures her investments in a way to avoid taxes and reduce her tax liability by tens of thousands of dollars.”

  244. 244.

    Brandon

    @Paul in KY: Thank you for the consistency. I would argue that either both are or both are not. I would also say though that I think a substantial number of people would feel quite differently about public exposure of personal and private revelations about her on the internet.

  245. 245.

    Germy Shoemangler

    Ashley Madison is trying to suppress the leak

    The company is shotgunning DMCA notices against journalists and others who reproduce even the tiniest fraction of the dump of users who signed up to find partners with whom to cheat on their spouses — included in the dump are thousands of people who paid $15 to have their data permanently deleted from the service.

    Factual data — even sensitive data like this — is not covered by copyright. It’s straight-up fraud — perjury, actually — to use Digital Millennium Copyright Act takedown notices to take down material like this.

  246. 246.

    Brachiator

    . So live and let live, I say, with one exception: Josh Duggar.

    I say live and let live for all of them, including Josh Duggar.

    I didn’t vote for any Purity Patrol.

  248. 248.

    Paul in KY

    @Brandon: I have a good feeling that Ms. Clinton will not get into any tawdry situation that her public figure designation would factor into.

    Will just have to see, I guess.

  250. 250.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Provider_UNE_AndPlayersToBeHatedLater™: There’s a bit of a difference between a “big fat red flag” and being on a sex offender registry for the rest of your natural life for something you did at age 14.

    I’d have thought that people here would have a more nuanced view of juvenile criminal justice for kids from obviously seriously dysfunctional families.

  252. 252.

    Paul in KY

    @Gin & Tonic: I’ve never watched the show, so I guess I’ve never seen how weird it must have been. Have read about some of their kooky ideas on ‘courting’. I just HATE smarmy fucks like him & his dad & am not inclined to have any mercy.

    Maybe the for life thing is too harsh. You will have to convince ole anonymous dude-on-the-internet of that.

  255. 255.

    NonyNony

    @JPL:

    I have secretly over the last several years been viewing pornography on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife.

    Oh Grod – he’s blaming “internet porn addiction”. And his statement makes it sound like he’s apologizing for cheating on her by looking at porn instead of, you know, cheating on her.

    Jeebus dude – just grow up. “My libido is more active than my wife’s” is not an excuse to cheat on her, but it isn’t a porn addiction either. It’s a good reason to get some marriage counseling, and a good example of why maybe, just maybe, waiting until you get married to find out if you’re sexually compatible with your partner isn’t the greatest idea in the world. Unless you’ve actually been to counseling and know you have an addiction, claiming you have one is the same as claiming “the Devil made me do it”.

    (I honestly think that these kinds of things should be responded to with a pithy “It isn’t any of your business – it’s between me and my wife and her divorce lawyers”. But if you’re going to respond at least come up with a response that doesn’t sound like you’re casting yourself as a victim instead of an idiot who made some poor choices.)

  256. 256.

    Tree With Water

    “Because the NFL no longer goes away in the offseason, the Super Bowl feels like forever ago. But, nearly seven months on, the last meaningful play still sticks firmly in the craw of the Seahawks, who by all rights ought to be two-time reigning champs. Offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell, who called the play that some have called the worst in history, says that if he had the opportunity to draw it up all over again, he wouldn’t change a thing..”.*

    Goodbye and good luck to you too, Darrell.

    *at Deadspin.com

  257. 257.

    Provider_UNE_AndPlayersToBeHatedLater™

    @kc

    If you want to get into an argument about whether minors should be exempt in most cases from sexual predator lists, then make that argument yourself. I only hit the wapo if I have to. But we are not having that conversation.

    If we were, givien what has been his admitted wrongdoing, Yes He should be on a list and his parents should be in jail.

    Was on the fone earlier and missed that you were letting the post argue for you.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding.
    …
    …

  258. 258.

    burnspbesq

    The worrisome thing that nobody has mentioned yet: the possibility that there are women in the world so lacking in alternatives that they might consider Josh Duggar a good catch.

  259. 259.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Provider_UNE_AndPlayersToBeHatedLater™: givien what has been his admitted wrongdoing, Yes He should be on a list and his parents should be in jail

    At what age would you begin to apply that standard? 12? 10? 8?

    From what (admittedly little) I’ve read, he snuck in their room at night and felt them up. That may meet current definitions of sexual assault, and I surely would think by age 18 he’d know that was wrong, but I’ve spent enough time around kids of that age to know that sexual impulse control is not well-developed. So yes, I am very definitely in favor of treating people differently based on their age.

  263. 263.

    The Other Chuck

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    This attack was for financial gain (they got 32 million credit card numbers) disguised as some bullshit attempt at moralizing.

    Moralizing, yes, but not so much about the cheating as Ashley Madison’s shoddy security and privacy practices, which included a heaping portion of outright lies about account security. If you really want to sell credit card numbers, you don’t publicize the leak like that.

  264. 264.

    PurpleGirl

    @kc:

    Not sure why you want to punish his siblings,

    Because two of the older girls who are married have been giving interviews with their husbands about how they don’t believe in Darwin and a host of other things. The girls are personable and seem nice and they’re married with nice husbands and they’ve all studied the issues and they are telling people a load of crap. But did they go to college — No. They “studied” materials that deny science and that came from other nut jobs. The girls and their husbands are learning to grift, just like their parents.

    ETA: To be clear, I’ve never watched the show but you get this information from the commercials for the show. You can’t escape it at times.

  265. 265.

    Cervantes

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’ll give you time to ponder it.

    Thanks, but that’s not going to change the meaning of words.

    (Should I add that “you are smart enough to know that”? Better not.)

    Anyhow, I’m off. Have a great evening.

  266. 266.

    Chris

    @JPL:

    Havint dabbled in fundamentalism as a teenager, it never ceases to impress me that when it’s Share Your Deep Dark Secrets time, these people’s confessions are always about sex.

    Not that I’m complaining about his mea culpa. But man, imagine a world in which conservatives felt the need to do similar self flagellation about their other sins. “Bless me, Father, for I have sinned: I’ve been a bigoted asshole who reveled in the hardships of my fellow human beings and did everything I could to add to them.” “Bless me, Father, for I have sinned: I shot a man dead because he was black and the state of Florida’s laws allowed me to get away with it.” “Bless me, father, for I have sinned: I bore false witness.” Etc.

  268. 268.

    kc

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’d have thought that people here would have a more nuanced view of juvenile criminal justice for kids from obviously seriously dysfunctional families.

    I do love us liberals. One day we’re all railing about the draconian nature of the 1994 Omnibus Crime bill and mandatory sentences, the next we want to put people on a sex offender registry for life for something they did at 14, without so much as even a feigned attempt to evaluate the likelihood that that person will re-offend.

  269. 269.

    kc

    @Provider_UNE_AndPlayersToBeHatedLater™:

    @kc

    If you want to get into an argument about whether minors should be exempt in most cases from sexual predator lists, then make that argument yourself. I only hit the wapo if I have to. But we are not having that conversation.

    If we were, givien what has been his admitted wrongdoing, Yes He should be on a list and his parents should be in jail.

    Was on the fone earlier and missed that you were letting the post argue for you.

    So what? This ain’t a high school debate contest. I posted a link to an article that contains discussion of research about the efficacy of putting juveniles on sex offender registries for life. Since you can’t be bothered to click on the WaPo, here’s a different link

    Here’s an excerpt:

    Children adjudicated delinquent of any offense should be held accountable and face developmentally appropriate sanctions that take into account what every parent knows – children are developmentally immature and have a distinctive capacity for change. Specifically with respect to sex offenses, research shows that teenagers who are adjudicated delinquent of such offenses are unlikely to be repeat offenders.

    In fact, in a recent Pennsylvania study, less than 2% of all individuals who committed a sex offense as a juvenile committed another such offense.

  270. 270.

    kc

    @PurpleGirl:

    @kc:

    Not sure why you want to punish his siblings,

    Because two of the older girls who are married have been giving interviews with their husbands about how they don’t believe in Darwin and a host of other things.

    You want them banned from TV because 1) their brother abused them when they were all younger; and 2) they don’t believe in Darwin?

    You might want to think about that some more.

  271. 271.

    Admiral_Komack

    I frankly don’t give a shit about those who frequent a “cheating” site getting outed.
    Don’t cheat, and don’t frequent or give up important info to cheating sites.
    Common sense, but common sense ain’t common.

  272. 272.

    pluege

    getting the political party affiliation of the entire Ashley Madison clientele would wowee. I’d wager they be upwards of 70% republican and republican leaning independents.

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