The St. Louis Good Ole Boys Club Police Officer’s Association is all worked up and typing away media releases:
The St. Louis Police Officers Association, the Union that represents over 1,100 police officers employed by the City of St. Louis, responded to a statement released yesterday by St. Louis Circuit Attorney, Jennifer Joyce. Joyce, flanked by St. Louis NAACP President Adolphus Pruitt, announced Friday that she planned to launch an unprecedented, separate investigation of the shooting of armed gunman Mansur Ball-Bey by two St. Louis Police Officers because of growing “public concerns”. She did not elaborate on what those concerns were or what segment of the population was voicing those concerns. SLPOA President Joe Steiger had this to say:
“Jennifer Joyce’s announcement is a discredit to the members of the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department, and specifically the professional investigators assigned to the Force Investigative Unit (FIU). These men and women are experienced, uncompromising investigators who have been trained by experts all over the country to investigate critical incidents involving police officers. It is one of the most progressive units of its kind. Joyce’s investigation, announced only two days after the incident, indicates a rush to judgment without any knowledge of the facts and evidence and needlessly erodes the public trust in FIU and all of the officers of the SLMPD.
Except none of this is accurate. None:
Statement from Circuit Attorney Jennifer M. Joyce:
I understand that this is an emotional and trying time for everyone, however, I am having difficulty understanding the position of the St. Louis Police Officers Association.
Our announcement clearly indicated the Circuit Attorney’s Office would be conducting the exact same review as under normal protocol; the Office is simply beginning immediately and expediting the process. This does not change the review, nor does it change the open-minded and objective approach to the investigation. There will be no rush to judgment.
I personally spoke with the Chief of Police prior to announcing the change in the process and he expressed no objections to the new timetable. Furthermore, a top member of my staff also spoke with the leader of the Department’s Force Investigative Unit who, far from being offended, expressed his desire to get started with us Monday morning, pledging full cooperation.
The role of the Circuit Attorney’s Office is to conduct a meticulous, thorough and independent review of the facts and circumstances of officer-involved shootings. Our sole job is to determine if a violation of Missouri law occurred and if such violation can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. Our review will be conducted independently of the police investigation. Differences of opinion will occur when agencies are independent. This helps ensure fairness and justice.
I have great regard for the hard working men and women of the police department. I am fully aware that police are much safer on our streets when community tensions are calmed. Expediting the review process is a step towards promoting community trust and public safety.
I am proud to stand with the President of the NAACP as he shares our desire to help bring the community together and encourage witness participation in this process. We appreciate the efforts of all those who work together to ensure safety for everyone in our great city.
These people are too stupid to own guns, let alone be allowed to carry them in public.
rikyrah
You do speak the truth, Cole.
PS-can we have some animal pics?
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
Angry and defensive people carrying firearms is very likely to end badly. Especially when their anger tends to be focused quite specifically.
ETA: I’d like to see proof of life for Steve and Shawn (Shaun?). I’m guessing I’m not the only one.
Gin & Tonic
Didn’t you used to have a cat?
serge
For every cop, there’s a Patrick Lynch. Facts will not be considered.
Debbie
@serge:
This made me think of him. I think he’s up for reelection soon.
Gvg
When all you have is a hammer, evrything looks like a nail. it’s not exactly what I mean, but have you noticed how police union spokesmen seem to be stupider and more defensive than even the police they supposedly represent lately? I am thinking something about there position teaches them to see every murmur by the public as an attack. this spokesman and the several others in the news lately have actually caused me to notice more and expect the worst whereas if they just kept quiet I think the unfavorable notice would be less.
Kropadope
Translation: Waaaah!!! How dare you subject us to the normal due process of the law?
J R in WV
So the neighbor called us right as the tuna was about seared to perfection to ask if we were shooting, about 9 pm dark thirty. I said, “No, I shoot in the daytime, it’s so much easier to see the targets”.
He tells me that guys on ATVs are in my driveway with spotlights shooting, probably spotlighting deer. Should I call the cops? It would take at least 30-40 minutes to arrive, and then what?
redshirt
@J R in WV: That’s some rural living! There’s people in your driveway, shooting, and you don’t know it?
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@J R in WV: Jacklighting deer is an asshole move. I’d be likely to respond inappropriately. Fortunately, our suburban deer are pretty safe. There are 3 does and several fawns camped out under the oak tree next door; they were entirely unbothered by me walking by with the dog (or by me saying “have a good night kiddos”).
Cul de sac camping spots seem to be preferred.
HinTN
I cannot begin to describe to you how overrun we are with deer. We have up gardening because we could not abide a ten foot fence; they have devoured wildflowers that they previously ignored; lower branches of fruit trees are stripped if leaves shd fruit is knocked from larger trees. A pox upon them what repopulated these creatures for their hunting pleasure!
Roger Moore
I am much more likely to chalk this up to malice than stupidity. The police unions object to impartial, third party investigations of their officers on principle, and they’ll say anything they believe will forestall those investigations.
redshirt
Since we’re talking animals, I discovered a huge “scat” (poop; shit) on one of my trails yesterday and it has people debating. Many say dog – a big one – but I find that hard to accept, since I am so rural there’s no dogs just running around loose. A wolf? Doubt it. A coyote? Maybe, but its a really big shit (over 7 inches long, filled with nothing but fur). I’m guessing black bear, but I’m in the minority. A small possibility of a mountain lion, but I highly doubt that.
HinTN
@Roger Moore: Yes
redshirt
@J R in WV: Also, I know from 1 test that it takes the cops 60 minutes to get to my house after a 911 call.
Steve From Antioch
Yes John, all 1100 police officers employed by the City of St. Louis are too stupid to own guns.
Steve From Antioch
@redshirt: This book is very useful: http://www.amazon.com/Mammal-Tracks-Sign-American-Species/dp/0811726266/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1440298457&sr=8-1&keywords=mammal+track+and+sign
scott (the other one)
@J R in WV: Would cranking up the stereo to 11 scare any possible deer away and therefore your unwelcome human guests? Or will the deer just want to come closer to see if there are good times to be had?
Ultraviolet Thunder
@redshirt:
Coyote or wolf scat would not be larger than that from a large dog. Coyotes in particular are not very big.
I’d be concerned enough to collect a sample and have it checked. Not that there’s likely to be anything hazardous out there but if it is a big predator, better to find out from the county extension service.
beltane
@redshirt: Black bear scat is more likely to be full of seeds than fur,. Eastern coyotes are actually wolf-coyote hybrids and can be much larger than their western cousins. Did you take a picture of it? Their are numerous scat identification sites.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@efgoldman:
At our house that’s some weeks we never see them at all, LOL. The neighborhood has a fair amount of woods and green space, and the cul de sac we live on is next to 22 acres of (village green space) woods. So the deer pretty much live here.
They’re hard on sunflower seedlings, young roses, and (day and Asiatic) lilies without deer scram spray or lots of nepeta and monarda standing guard. And bird feeders must be very high. But mostly we coexist pretty happily, from my perspective. Many other people will have different experiences; so it’s clear why they are considered pretty(? – at least not ugly?) pests in lots of locations.
Roger Moore
@redshirt:
Being full of nothing but fur sure sounds like a wild animal rather than a tame one. Black bears eat mostly vegetation, so that seems unlikely, too. Could it be something like a bobcat?
redshirt
@Steve From Antioch: I have a scat book and I took it onsite. Inconclusive. The only size range that made sense according to the book was black bear or mountain lion.
redshirt
@Ultraviolet Thunder: I’m not concerned in the least. Scratch that – if it were from a domesticated god I’d be concerned, since how did it get onto my trails? I’m very rural.
But if it’s a wild beast, no worries. I’m just curious as to what.
redshirt
@efgoldman: Very common, though I’ve never seen one. The berry comments made above make me a bit suspect that it is is a bear, but I don’t know who can make a 7 inch long poop in these parts besides man or bear.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve From Antioch: Good god, you are a twatwaffle.
scav
We all saw the graph. Communication and de-escalation of situations is not a part of their training, even apparently when it comes to PR and community relations not involving gunplay, but merely firing off their mouths. Their concern for facts, evidence and procedure is also proving about par for observed behavior.
Wag
@redshirt:
A photo would be helpful. This time of year the bear scat is full of berries. It is also in a large pile. Full of hair? I’m thinking a predator. Lion perhaps.
cbear
@redshirt:
Hmm, could be a Teabagger that’s gone feral. Any prominent Republicans gone missing in your area lately?
Be careful, they can be quite a handful when cornered.
And, try to get a picture.
Maybe Cole will post it, since he seems to have run out of Steve pics.
redshirt
@Wag: I have some great photos. How could I share my scat photos with BJ?
Doug R
@redshirt: with Ashley Madison down maybe the Cougars are looking elsewhere?
Culture of Truth
Everyone knows, as the police know too – of course – that you don’t start a criminal investigation until at least three days have passed. That’s just professionalism and common sense.
Wag
@redshirt:
Did it look anything like these examples?
http://www.terrain.org/articles/29/lamberton.htm
Felonius Monk
@efgoldman:
What? Boston is posting “No Coyotes Allowed” signs now?
BBA
Sooner or later the police in a major city will try to stage a coup against an insufficiently obsequious mayor or DA.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: It was an intentional misreading of Cole’s post by someone who has been nothing but a troll for a while now. As far as I can remember, I stole the term from Betty Cracker. Or maybe Sarah P&T. Probably Sarah.
Wag
@efgoldman:
Mountain lions are found all over the country and are increasingly common
Culture of Truth
There are many deer, both adult and little cute fawns, in my backyard and my street.
redshirt
@Wag: Mountain Lions might be in the woods of Western Maine, but I doubt it.
sukabi
@redshirt: probably coyote, you can doo a google for animal scat…black bear is usually very dark, almost black, and segmented, flat pellets stuck together in a ‘log’. Coyote tends to have fur, other stuff in longish turds.
FlyingToaster
@efgoldman:
We’ve had coyotes for decades, dude.
Actually, you get either coyotes or turkeys. Each vicious enough to keep the other off of their patch.
Wag
@redshirt:
I didn’t realize you were in Maine. That does male lions unlikely.
Scary beasts. I’ve run into them here in Colorado.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: I also know a reasonable amount about 16th and 17th century rapiers. And the the Velvet Underground.
Roger Moore
@efgoldman:
Does he really think that’s going to encourage people to cooperate with him?
FlyingToaster
@John Cole:
It’s Missouri, Jake.
I spent the first 18.5 years of my life in KCMO, and I don’t remember seeing a stop sign without bullet holes outside of the Plaza. My (suburban district) HS had a rule requiring all guns to be removed from gun racks before cars were parked in our lot, which pissed off not only students but several dads (“Why the fuck do I have to lock up my guns, they’re not hurting anyone?”) coming to basketball games.
KC cops were merely corrupt (I left in ’80, if it’s changed say so), but STL county cops were thugs even back then. If you only let responsible folks have guns in Missouri, it’ll be limited to all the night shift nurses and about half of the State Police.
J R in WV
@redshirt:
It’s a long driveway, and wraps around a ridge we call the point. If they were using really big guns and I wasn’t inside cooking with the stereo on I might hear it. But neighbor is right across the valley from the mouth of our driveway, and could see their spotlights.
They’re across the hill from my house, which was intentional, we can’t see any property that we don’t own.
It IS really rural, and that is both good and bad. Cops here are pretty good compared to what I see in the national news, but still, they’re 30 or 40 minutes away from us if not actually on patrol nearby by co-incidence.
FlyingToaster
@efgoldman:
No, because airline brat. Both of my parents worked for TWA.
Thor Heyerdahl
@efgoldman:
Until that point, they’ll drive just as badly as any other Bostonian…
redshirt
Ok folks, I’ve got scat links.
18 and over only.
http://imgur.com/a/vaRaA
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Omnes Omnibus: You win. I know a fair amount about midcentury modern architecture and accompanying style, and the Velvet Underground.
But I have some Edward Sheriff Curtis photogravures, and have a reasonably fluent knowledge of his work as a result.
redshirt
It’s blurry like all Coles’ photos and I feel shame.
Omnes Omnibus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I wasn’t trying to win anything. I was just trying to expand efg’s horizons. BTW this is the anniversary of the Battle of Bosworth where Richard III was killed.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@redshirt: Size, appearance, and described content suggest coyote.
@Omnes Omnibus:
I didn’t think you were, but believed I should point out the distinction nonetheless.
Omnes Omnibus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Okay then.
ETA: And fuck the Stanleys.
trollhattan
This was our campground host in the Lassen Park backcountry for two nights. She became so accustomed to us she was almost like having a dog along. The widowmaker tree that crashed down night two, nearly flattening two of us seemed to chase her away, though. Eventful trip.
redshirt
@efgoldman: Brookline is so nice.
different-church-lady
I know about King Crimson, SMPTE timecode, and I’ve got a painting by a guy who had a cup of coffee with the Velvet Underground.
Suzanne
@efgoldman: SERIOUSLY. I had no idea that so many of the fine people here had such deep knowledge regarding poo. I’m not really sure how I feel about it.
I also have to say that learning that there are poop identification websites was something I didn’t expect on a Saturday night.
FlyingToaster
@efgoldman: Yes, Watertown, Bemis neighborhood (hence the coyotes, who live at Walker Pond; when we moved in, the police left a flyer warning about them).
My parents were odd for KC, but not for the airlines; they flew all over on weekends and when it wouldn’t interfere with school, took us along. And they’d bring home strays; I learned about islamic dietary laws from a Pakistani engineer who joined my dad’s powerplant crew for three months (he was learning how to run an airline maintenance operation). My mom brought home an Indian hindu doctor on her way to KU Med who’s apartment wouldn’t be ready for 3 days. Lots of itinerant airline folk would end up at our house overnight.
When I came to Boston for spring break during grad school, it was like stepping into a warm bath. No shot-up stop signs; public transit !!!, trees, lack of tornadoes. I’ll take the 9 feet of snow, and the most sarcastic police officers on the planet. Even effing Tsarnaevs.
danielx
Immature hotheads with guns….which makes it pretty much like most areas of the country from what I’ve been able to tell. I’ve heard it proposed that the density of fifty caliber rifle owners (.50 BMG round) per square mile in a defined area is a pretty good measure of how looneytunes the local population is.
redshirt
@Suzanne:
LOL. Of course it’s a funny subject, but a real one, too. You learn a ton about an animal from its scat (hunter word for poop). A real woods person could tell you ten different things about the animal and its environment just by looking at its scat. A tracker tracks based partially on scat. The woods and poop are like a big deal.
zoot
Amen to that.
Apparently, in St. Louis, instead of screening candidates for suitability for the very difficult job of being a GOOD cop, St. Louis is doing just the opposite – ensuring they only populate their ranks with dangerous imbeciles and psychopaths
Steve from Antioch
@Omnes Omnibus:
@zoot:
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@J R in WV:
It’s probably too late now, but I would have called the cops. They probably wouldn’t have arrived in time to stop them, but they might have been able to intercept the vehicles driving away with their kills. I’m assuming that, like in most states, it’s illegal to hunt at night.
redshirt
@efgoldman: Yeah, you’re probably poor in Brookline these days if you only make 100K.
FlyingToaster
@redshirt: The only “poor” families are in the apartment complex opposite West Roxbury, which Brookline schools tried (and failed) to claim belonged in Boston.
Since a 3-bedroom condo in Brookline runs well above 500K, and a house over a mil, and rentals are through the roof, you’re right, not many poor people there. Everyone I know who lives there is at worst “house poor” (they’d be rich if they’d sell); and the last buildable space (the old movie theater next to the reservoir) is about to be more housing.
You want to find a cheap(er) place inside 128, you’re looking at Lynn or Revere or Chelsea. Or inland Dot. Everywhere else (Allston, Cambridgeport, even east Somerville) has gentrified.
If my house in Watertown were 6 blocks south (in Newton), it’d be worth half again as much.
And yet, developers are still building luxury highrises downtown. Yecccch.
redshirt
@efgoldman: Studio with North End Style bathroom.
redshirt
@efgoldman: JP has been unaffordable – in parts – for decades. There’s a true right side/wrong side of the tracks thing going on in JP for a long time.
FlyingToaster
@redshirt: I don’t think JP is affordable at all now; one of my daughter’s school friends lives in a condo-ized victorian; that unit costs as much as my 3-br in Watertown (and there are 5 units in that building). The once “bad” areas are no longer; the biggest problem is hipsters have raised the rent so much that families can’t even rent there (just like West Somerville).
redshirt
@efgoldman: Heh. The last time I went to the Brendan Behan it was a lesbian bar.
And not the IRA front I grew up with.
FlyingToaster
@efgoldman: Mission Hill isn’t affordable; the project is still means-tested but everything around it has pretty-much condoized in the last 10 years.
redshirt
@efgoldman: Brady takes the field in just a few weeks.
Summer ends, Fall colors begin.
Then…. Winter.
Walker
In a sign that all is right with the world, the Puppies were shut out of the Hugos. The artist known as ‘No Award’ was the big winner of the night.
Redshift
@Walker: Yeah, it turned out well. I was sure there were enough wingnuts willing to spend $40 to piss off the liberals that they would dominate the voting. Glad to be proven wrong.
seaboogie
@redshirt: A Pope, perhaps? Is there Pope scat listed in any of the manuals listed by other commenters? We have two Popes now, so one could be in your woods. Who knows what Benedict is up to these days?
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Redshift:
Conservatives are always convinced that there’s a “silent majority” that’s just afraid to speak out against liberalism and will turn to them in relief when conservatives make a stand. (Another example: their conviction that any white person who supported Obama did it only because of “white guilt” and not because they actually thought he was the best candidate) They’re proven wrong over and over (and over) again, but they still cling to the belief.
Mary G
@Walker: It’s also awesome that best novel and another award went to anti-American writers whose works were written in Dutch and Chinese originally. They put the world in Worldcon, which I’m sure made the puppies even sadder.
Mike E
The local archdiocese has begun clearing and excavating a foundation for their new(est) cathedral, right up my street…of course the deer are fleeing the scene and are now quite visible, like an exorcism gone wrong.
Mary G
Ugh, it won’t let me edit on the tablet, I put in non-American authors and FY AutoCorrect changed it.
Anne Laurie
@Suzanne:
You’ve got kids. I am reasonably certain, from past experience with breeders, that the color, consistency, and frequency of baby excretion was at one point a part of your daily vocabulary. (More for the first baby than the younger one, probably.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@seaboogie: interesting theory. I can believe that Ratzinger would have small bones and fur in his scat.
The man has the eyes of a werewolf.
Anne Laurie
@redshirt: I was gonna suggest we could revive the final old medieval term fewmets, but apparently the D&Ders beat me to it!
Redshift
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Oh, I know. But in this case, all they had to do was get enough people to pay the relatively small registration fee, which was not a great deal more effort than the internet mobs they habitually engage in, so it didn’t require a huge “silent majority.”
jacel
@Gvg: I’ve wondered if the sort of recent statements by some police union spokespersons are aimed at the greater goal of discrediting unions everywhere.
Suzanne
@efgoldman: Fuck yes I did.
Suzanne
@Anne Laurie: I went back to work after having both of my Spawns, so I could find other things to talk about than baby shit. It worked.
jayjaybear
I’m proudly pro-union (AFSCME proud!), but man, the police unions have been really trying my universal brotherhood attitude the last year or two…
jayjaybear
@Anne Laurie: While I AM a gamer, I first became aware of the word in the Madeleine L’Engle novel “A Wind In The Door” (in which they turned out to be cherub spoor, rather than dragon).
Anne Laurie
@jayjaybear: I learnt it from The Once & Future King, which I read before L’Engle.
the Conster
@seaboogie:
LOL. I can totally imagine Ratzy as a feral creature, terrorizing small woodland animals as he mutates into a Gollum like being, muttering about his precious.
Another Holocene Human
@Felonius Monk: Pretty sure that was a good old New England “Boston has misleading road signs, lol newbie” joke.
gelfling545
@J R in WV: So call the police on the non-emergency number during regular business hours & tell them you’ve had people with firearms trespassing on your property. Ask them what to do.
Another Holocene Human
@efgoldman:
When I was growing up Brookline was snootyville, and I lived in motherfucking Newton!! (My grandparents helped my parents buy the house and dad had a pretty good job.)
Aside from “The Country Club” (yay white supremacy?) Brookline always looked like a beatup trash heap to me. Million dollar homes. Okay.
(When I was a kid, the country clubs were still organized by creed. The Country Club was no j000000s allowed. The one near my neighborhood was the “Catholic” club because “The Country Club” had been, maybe still was at that time I don’t know, Protestant only. There was a different place on the other side of town where Jews went. And the public golf courses, much more poorly maintained, were open to everyone … even Black people … there was one on the Parkways with brown grass for them.)
Another Holocene Human
@redshirt:
?
In what way?
Chemlawned grass when you cross the border?
Terrible traffic?
Highest density of rotaries per square mile in New England?
Urban dust to choke a horse?
The attitude?
The real estate agents?
The schools? (Has something changed?)
Brookline Village has a Dunkin’ Donuts now. It is quite hospitable. Makes navigating the T much more friendly (BV is a short walk from 39 bus which is the old E line. It’s also on the Crosstown 66 route from Harvard Yard.)
Another Holocene Human
@FlyingToaster:
My school bus went through there every day! Boston, Brookline, and Newton sent buses in there. Sometimes the kids would through snowballs … or rocks … at the other city’s buses.
We literally had to go through a bumpy patch of woods to get to/from there, and on the other side were stratospherically expensive SFHs (and no kids being picked up).
I kind of have it in for Brookline public schools because our second, terrible principal at our elementary school lived in Brookline and sent her kids there. (Our first guy was snapped up by I think Lexington. Lexington either had better schools or at least richer kids, I wasn’t really clear on that. If you go by interschool academic competition to be honest Boston Latin School used to kick our asses but they were like 5 times larger than us too.)
They filmed Karate Kid 4 in the southern end of Newton (near Route 9), not like you could avoid it because they closed the streets and detoured everyone. But they decided that Newton’s high schools didn’t look classic enough so they filmed the school scenes at Brookline High. What a dump! kkkkkk
Another Holocene Human
@efgoldman:
Well, JP was the kicky Parkway burb even during the depth of the 80s. That said, it most certainly had its shitty and cheap parts. But I think even in the early 2000s when my sister was doing tour de cheap roommate situations the closest she got to JP was way deep into Roslindale (which was turning into JP II, the lesbians moved in there first, then JAX closed).
Housing in the Boston area is ridic. Fuck, back in 2004 I moved in with a friend … in WORCESTER. I took the train every day to go to work.
Another Holocene Human
@efgoldman: Damn, I never knew about the IRA fronts. (I know the store fronts you mean, though.) And I always felt jealous of Holy Name. No more! St T’s was half Irish and the priests were Irish. And some people were still grumbling about all the Italians even in the 80s and 90s. Hard to stay mad when the kids are marrying each other … unless you’re a bitter nasty sociopathic nun. What the hell, her name was Sister Monice.
My mother ran into that “are you Irish stuff” (and not just at church) and changed all of our names to a hyphenated number–!!
redshirt
@Another Holocene Human: Having now spent a few years in the deep woods, a small, rich city like Brookline seems like a dream. It’s quite lovely, sorry you didn’t like living there.
Another Holocene Human
Thread: killt.