Many of you heard this story over the weekend:
Eleven African American women were kicked off a Napa Valley Wine Train on Saturday for allegedly laughing and talking too loudly in an incident that has sparked widespread anger and the hashtag #LaughingWhileBlack.
The women, one of whom was 83, were members of a book club, the Sisters on the Reading Edge, and were taking part in their annual trip through wine country, wearing matching shirts, drinking wine and enjoying appetizers.
The Napa Valley Wine Train is a restaurant on board a train that travels for 25 miles through the heart of Napa Valley while passengers eat and drink from an award-winning wine list.
The staff on board received several noise complaints from other parties on the train, according to a Napa Valley Wine Train spokesman, Sam Singer. They asked the group to quieten down three times and, following the third attempt, they gave the group the choice of “reducing their noise level or departing the train”, Singer said. One woman on the train told the group that it was “not a bar”, according to one member of the group, Lisa Renee Johnson’s Facebook page.
“The train is set up to be with your friends, to drink wine and have a good time,” Johnson told the San Francisco Chronicle. “We were thinking, ‘Who are we offending?’”
A Yelp review by a woman giving her name as Danielle S, published on Sunday, said: “I watched in disbelief as staff harassed a group of people who were merely drinking wine and laughing. I’d like to think it wasn’t a racially motivated act, but given the fact that other, non-black guests were behaving in the same way and not removed, I can only conclude that it was discrimination.”
Once the train reached the St Helena stop, the group was escorted off. They “paraded us through six cars and none of us are even drunk”, Johnson wrote on Facebook.
The outrage was immediate, spurring a well-deserved social media shitstorm for the company. #LAUGHINGWHILEBLACK trended on twitter, Yelp reviews were brutal, and their facebook page was, well, a trainwreck:
Fortunately, the Wine Train CEO is not a moron, and immediately dealt with this issue:
“The Napa Valley Wine Train was 100 percent wrong in its handling of this issue,” said wine train chief executive officer Anthony “Tony” Giaccio. “We accept full responsibility for our failures and for the chain of events that led to this regrettable treatment of our guests.”
***Giaccio wrote an apology letter to the club saying: “I want to apologize for your experience on the Napa Valley Wine Train on Saturday, Aug. 22. We accept full responsibility for our failures and the entire chain of unfortunate events you experienced.”
The letter to the group continued:
“Clearly, we knew in advance when we booked your party that you would be loud, fun-loving and boisterous—because you told us during the booking process that you wanted a place where your Club could enjoy each other’s company. Somehow that vital information never made it to the appropriate channels and we failed to seat your group where you could enjoy yourself properly and alert our train’s staff that they should expect a particularly vibrant group.
“We were insensitive when we asked you to depart our train by marching you down the aisle past all the other passengers. While that was the safest route for disembarking, it showed a lack of sensitivity on our part that I did not fully conceive of until you explained the humiliation of the experience and how it impacted you and your fellow Book Club members.
“We also erred by placing an inaccurate post on our Facebook site that was not reflective of what actually occurred. In the haste to respond to criticism and news inquires, we made a bad situation worse by rushing to answer questions on social media. We quickly removed the inaccurate post, but the harm was done by our erroneous post.
“In summary, we were acutely insensitive to you and the members of the Book Club. Please accept my apologies for our many mistakes and failures. We pride ourselves on our hospitality and our desire to please our guests on the Napa Valley Wine Train. In this instance, we failed in every measure of the meaning of good service, respect and hospitality.
“I appreciate your recommendation that our staff, which I believe to be among the best, could use additional cultural diversity and sensitivity training. I pledge to make sure that occurs and I plan to participate myself.
“As I offered in my conversation with you today, please accept my personal apologies for your experience and the experience of the Book Club members. I would like to invite you and other members to return plus 39 other guests (you can fill an entire car of 50) as my personal guests in a reserved car where you can enjoy yourselves as loudly as you desire.
“I want to conclude again by offering my apologies for your terrible experience.”
Businesspeople- that is how it is done. It would be nice if this shit didn’t keep happening, but this is the best possible outcome and handling of the situation.
For the record- were I still a drinker, these are PRECISELY the kind of people I would want in my car on a boring ass ride through NAPA valley. When I was on the bottle and traveling, I would always gravitate to the people having the most fun. I bet they would be a hoot.
WereBear
Well, you know how Book Clubs can get. Who has the most vibrant prose, was it the best sex scene or the best sex scene EVER, and why they act like the covers are still on a foot tall book instead of the size of my thumb…
Mary G
Good response by the CEO. I wouldn’t be caught dead on the Napa Valley Wine Train, as I don’t drink, but I’d love to join their book club.
Lavocat
Well done.
Also, too, is anyone else experiencing this site loading extremely slooooooowly?
Percysowner
This is a good response. I’m impressed that he stepped up and took responsibility. Sadly it appears that this was not the first time there has been an issue with this venue. I hope the CEO looks into the people running this trip and helps to educate them as to how to not have this happen again.
Also, too, is anyone else experiencing this site loading extremely slooooooowly? I am. Something is going on.
dedc79
Maybe they should designate a quiet car, where all the boring wine snobs can sit in silence.
Tommy
This might not work well here but if other people tell me my group is loud I might listen to them. Now I find a book club, one member 83 can be that loud. But I guess you never know.
sparrow
@dedc79: You beat me to my joke! I mean, I understand wanting peace and quiet on an amtrak where you are often doing work, but a WINE TRAIN? for realz people?
Tommy
@dedc79: I almost want to take back what I just wrote.
NotMax
Free ride on a ghetto car, where there’s a near-zero chance you might have to see or interact with anyone else, and (more important?) vice-versa.
@Lavocat
Yes, site’s been funky for a couple of days now.
impliedobserver
I was on Amtrak Cascades with some Canadian Rugby team for 4 hours. It was hell. They were so drunk. I complained so many times to the conductor and they did nothing. Makes you wonder.
Soul On Ice
This CEO’s heart and mind are in the correct place, but I’m not going go out of my way to congratulate the company for FINALLY doing the right thing after a series of horrific insults to these women. Remember, the company doubled down on their insult of kicking the club off the train by going on Facebook and printing an outright lie that they were physically and verbally abusive to staff and other passengers. This apology is way overdue and not commensurate with the disgraceful manner in which these ladies were treated.
Amir Khalid
@Lavocat:
It’s been like this for a couple of days now. It would seem the server hamsters are overdue to be fed.
ThresherK
@WereBear: Yes, I do. Isn’t it roughly 15 minutes of every hour talking about the book?
TaMara (BHF)
In other news, asshat Curt Shilling is suspended from ESPN for offensive comments. A surprise to no one, I’m sure.
Makes me ashamed to be a red sox fan. (don’t…)
Plantsmantx
Then again, they might not be a hoot, especially. They might just be people celebrating a friend’s birthday at a restaurant in the manner that people typically celebrate a friend’s birthday at a restaurant.
kc
Hard to believe no video of this has surfaced.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: Steve ate them.
superfly
So a “separate but equal” car? Is it at the back of the train?
Tree With Water
All I know is the train has been in business for decades without an incident like this having occurred. Or none of which I’ve ever heard about.
The story of the “wine train” itself is an interesting an informative one, involving transport laws and the right-of-way on what had been abandoned railway tracks. The laws served as a trump card the owner played to stay in business and exploit taxpayer dollars. I lived just outside the town limits of St. Helena in the upper valley for a few years, and could see it from my porch. It doesn’t stop in town because the locals don’t want the crowds, which makes its main street merchants very sad, but it’s really just a rational decision. Besides, a person needs a bank loan if they’re going to shop in St Helena. If you want something that costs $800, you can find it. If you need anything else (besides food), you shop in the city of Napa, 15 miles south. I don’t know much else about the RR or what happened, but lord knows it is a beautiful valley that’s worth a look see. All year ’round, too. Vineyards in the winter are mystical places.
indycat32
How did the CEO get from the women said they wanted a place to “enjoy each others’ company” to “we knew you would be loud and boisterous”. . But, hey come on back and we’ll give you a separate (but no doubt equal) car all to yourselves.
VOR
I’ve been on the Napa Wine Train, albeit years ago. A lot of the passengers were drunk or were drinking whole bottles of wine. And yes, groups of loud drunks. We decided afterwards it was a poor choice for a romantic date because you are essentially trapped on the train with the rowdies for several hours. Kudos to the CEO for the apology but I have little doubt there was a racial motivation to the action taken against this group.
NotMax
@TaMara (BHF)
Is there a step down, career-wise, from being an analyst for Little League games?
Not sports savvy enough to come up with much which might be. Maybe being designated to provide color coverage of the world domino tournament.
Perhaps Curt can now seamlessly glide into shilling for Trump.
dedc79
@sparrow:And for the record, I love the Amtrak quiet car.
WereBear
@ThresherK: On a good day.
MazeDancer
The ultimate CEO response was great. But it took them sooooo long. They failed so completely for a good 36 hours. Compounded by the supremely stupid instant response of blaming the ladies.
There were widely circulated pictures of the extremely lovely ladies – one was 85! – and noting they were friggin Book Club members, celebrating one member’s birthday. Outrage prevailed at punishing laughing, and noting how could 12 people, period, not make noise. And the Wine Train and their PR agency did zip except receive boycott tweets and blame the sweet looking women and shoot themselves in the foot. For so very long.
Cacti
Welcome to the Napa Valley Wine Train, colored entrance in rear.
kc
Shorter apology: “We should have put your noisy asses in a separate car.”
NotMax
@MazeDancer
85-year-olds can be damned feisty.
Between naps.
:)
Brachiator
I was home yesterday nursing a bruised knee and was able to hear an interview with one of the train ladies on radio station KFI in Los Angeles. This station leans strongly conservative, so I was surprised initially at how sympathetic and understanding the host was to the train lady, Lisa Johnson.
I got indications that one of the train staff, the maitre d’ and one train passenger were hugely responsible for starting shit. Other passengers seemed fine.
The interview can be found here.
kfiam640.com/onair/bill-carroll-37820/kicked-off-winetasting-book-club-booted-13883269/
More on Lisa Johnson, who is also an author, can be found here.
lisareneejohnson.com/
Just ridiculous. As despicable as this incident was, I am glad to see the company try to do right, and I am also glad to see how some people jumped onto social media to lend support and to blast the bullshit.
Cacti
@superfly:
It’s called the Homer Plessy memorial car.
Stacy
@kc: There is a video that one of the women took as they were being escorted off the train. They were all very calm and collected and the 4(!) police officers waiting for them seemed pretty sheepish about the situation. I would have been livid at that point but they were all in pretty good humor considering they were being treated unfairly.
Singular
That’s an absolute cracker of an apology. Even the minor attempts to try and balance it (safest way to exit and all that) don’t diminish it. How it should be done.
I hope they enjoy their 50 strong party :)
Tommy
@TaMara (BHF): Yeah no surprise. First time I was in Boston, a hole in the wall place off the Freedom Trail looking for a beer. I had a Cardinals hat on and you had just kicked our ass in the WS. It was clear from the accents I was in a local bar. I had heard stereotypes of people from Boston being assholes. I found the exact opposite to be true.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@superfly:
Offering a free trip for 50 people is “separate but equal”?
I mean, yes, the company were jackasses, but it seems weird to insist that offering a free trip for 50 people in compensation for having been jackasses just continues the original offense.
NotMax
@Tommy
So they were being dicks?
:)
Tommy
@NotMax: No. The exact opposite.
NotMax
@Tommy
It was – ah say, it was a joke, son.
/F. Leghorn
Tommy
@NotMax: I kind of got that. Just wanted to say the folks in Boston were stellar and Kurt Shilling is a tool.
JPL
When the book club scheduled the tour, the company knew it was a large group. If they only wanted couples, they should have said we will not be able to accommodate large groups.
It sounds unusual to accept the reservation, then change the rules.
I’m glad the CEO stepped forward, but it is going to be difficult to fix this wrong. imo
gelfling545
Places that do wine tastings, winery tours & the like must be well acquainted with guests who get a bit raucous. They are prime locations for “bachelorette” parties & the like where the group rents a limo so they can all get completely snockered & not have to drive. I refuse to believe that “noise” is unknown in this venue. It appeared to me from the first that is was a case of “Oh, look at those black people not being quiet & self-effacing. Best get rid of them before the white passengers notice”.
Plantsmantx
@superfly:
It seems that the company still contends that these women were being especially loud- much moreso than groups of people who were not kicked off the train. This YouTube video from 2011 was posted on 3 Chics Politico’s Twitter feed yesterday. I can’t believe that those black women were any more loud and um…ebullient…than the people in this video. Were they really so much more loud and raucous, or were they perceived to be so because they’re black?
Tommy
@JPL: My first comment I wish I could take back. I think I am accurate that if you are loud and somebody asks you to tone it down you might listen. I find it hard to believe a book club is that loud.
superfly
@Cacti:
+ 3/5
NotMax
OT:
Going (reluctantly) on a trip back East to see Mom next week. Realized that the new car I helped her buy last year has a CD player, as opposed to the cassette player of her older vehicle.
She likes classical and opera but mostly has cassettes, so was seeking recommendations for particular recordings to give her that would be good for listening to while driving. Car has a more than decent sound system (Bose, IIRC), but of course not akin to a home stereo.
Arbitrarily setting a top price of $15 each (although won’t rule out boxed sets).
Any must-haves favored by the commentariat?
Tree With Water
I think this might be the opening salvo of the Great Jeb! “Ain’t Gonna Take No Shit No More From Trump” campaign offensive that the NY Times was advertising yesterday:
(No More Mr. Nice Blog.com posts): “So I’m supposed to believe that this is a sincere expression of Roger Ailes’s rage, and that Boss Rupert had nothing to do with it? Oh, please:
On Tuesday, Fox News Chief Roger Ailes said in a statement Donald Trump should apologize for a tirade of tweets aimed at Fox News host Megyn Kelly”.
That’s the point of departure from which Jeb intends to launch his counter attacks, defending Meg Kelley’s “honor”- hardee har har- both as a woman and journalist. I think Murdoch, Bush, Adelson, the Kochs, et.al., all want The Donald’s balloon popped like the Hindenburg, and this represents their most recent best shot. R.I. P. Terry Schiavo..
Mike in NC
Saw a favorable review of the wine train not too long ago, but it looks like we’re heading to Lake Tahoe in April instead of Napa Valley.
MattR
@NotMax: If she wants to have a cassette player, I would consider trading my 2001 Elantra for her new car :)
Unfortunately, I am useless when it comes to those musical genres.
Tommy
@Tree With Water: I am nothing close to a fan of Kelly or Fox or Ailes. But Trump is making me kind of pull for them. That is saying a hell of a lot.
Cacti
@Tommy:
Rooting for injuries only, as it’s a fight between villains.
KS in MA
The really handsome thing to do would have been to refund their money for the trip they DID take, instead of offering them a freebie next time (never mind the offer of the “special” car … sheesh).
NotMax
@MattR
Sorry, but she’s madly in love with the Mazda 3 sedan I managed to coax, cajole and steer her to.
;)
Bobby Thomson
@Mary G: if you don’t drink why would you join a book club?
JPL
@KS in MA: There money was refunded when they were forced off the train.
Tommy
@Cacti: He is like a dog with a bone. He won. He doesn’t have to keep punching her in the face.
Iowa Old Lady
My DIL goes to a book club. It took my son months to notice that there were no books involved.
Keith G
@NotMax: My calm down favorite: The 6 Unaccompanied Cello Suites Complete by Yo-Yo Ma
MattF
Via TPM, woman sees Donald Trump’s face in a tub of butter.
gogol's wife
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Weird-looking pre-Code movie tonight at 8:00 on TCM — John Gilbert in Downstairs (1932). It looks like the male Baby Face. I’m on board!
Cacti
I enjoy wine well enough, but I could never get into wine enthusiast culture because it’s filled to the brim with effete, elitist, douchebaggery.
That’s why I often give a side eye to craft beer bros. Trying to make beer culture more like wine culture is not something one should aspire to.
NotMax
@Tommy
On the contrary, he probably wouldn’t consider it a win until she’s (dare one say it?) fired.
Cacti
@Tommy:
Meh.
I think of it as white Jesus/white Santa lady’s karmic reward.
gogol's wife
@NotMax:
I’ve really been enjoying driving to the Wolf Hall CD — not the modern sound track (although that’s a good, if zen, driving experience too), but the CD that has the period music used in the show.
Tommy
@NotMax: Miles Davis Sketches In Spain. You’d think Miles and Jazz but not this. Totally classical and one of the most wonderful things you will listen to. Most of it is on YouTube so you can gut check what I say, but the whole album as a whole is the shit. Not one or two songs.
jl
@Cacti: I read a review of a beer festival once that started by saying “All beer is above average”. That is an exaggeration, but I think does does reflect what should be a more tolerant and relaxed beer culture.
catclub
@NotMax: I don’t know how good a car you need to make listening to classical in a car worth it,
but mine is not that good. Siubhan and efgoldman are your classical experts ( that I know of).
Do not bother to listen to cello solos in a car. Violin solos will come through. Quiet parts of vocal probably have little chance as well.
Brass is pretty good. Woodwind will work.
Tyro
@KS in MA: they did. It was the dishonest follow up Facebook post from the wine train that put this episode into over the edge into outrageous. And now the CEO needs to clean up the mess.
Bobby Thomson
@Cacti: effete snobs. But are they nattering nabobs of negativism?
MattF
@NotMax: The Small Combos CD.
KS in MA
@JPL:
Oh! That’s very different … Never mind!
Sibelius
@NotMax: Tough to recommend for others, but here are a few. She probably has her favorite performances (we all do) so tread lightly:
One of my desert island discs is of the Saint-Saens cello, piano and violin concertos played by Yo-Yo Ma (cello concerto) Cecil Licad (piano concerto) and Cho-Liang Lin (violin concerto). Available at Amazon for $10.
Beethoven, Symphony No. 9; Ferenc Fricsay and the Berlin Philharmonic. Amazon $12. Trivia, the first stereo recording of this work, and still the best (as I said, we all have our preferences).
Opera, one of my favorites is Donizetti’s L’elisir D’amore with Angela Gheorghiu and Roberto Alagna. Well sung and funny, light opera. Again Amazon $20.
I’ve been listening to Mahler lately but don’t think it’s for listening in the car, at least for me.
Good luck
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@gogol’s wife:
I’ve read about it but haven’t seen it, so I texted my househusband to ask him to TiVo it. Thanks!
catclub
@Keith G: I found that Pieter Wispelway or Pablo Casals versions have more life than the Yo-Yo Ma. Casals has all that vibrato, but Wispelway is my favorite.
Maybe you had the accent on calming down. Different strokes and all.
Cacti
@jl:
My philosophy on good beer can be summed up thusly:
The best beer is the beer that you enjoy drinking in your leisure time.
Tyro
Also, the market for this wine train, as far as I can tell, seems to be vacationing middle aged couples who want to do something “fancy.” Apparently “party groups” are handled separately.
Quite honestly, as much as I love a big party, cannot stand loud groups in circumstances when they are being the only distinctive loud people. Yes, I am fully aware that this makes me a terrible person. But I grew up in a loud household and treasure moments when I can have some peaceful enjoyment with someone.
goblue72
@gelfling545: Pretty much – the Napa Valley Wine train is not Amtrak – its not a train you take to get from one place to go to another place. Rather, its a choo-choo train version of a booze bus. I don’t have much sympathy for the folks on the train because one group of boozers may have been a little rowdier than everyone else. You don’t get on that train except for one reason: to DRANK.
That said, the hordes of Woo Girls and Douchebros that descend on Wine Country on the weekends in their limos and chartered tour buses are a complete PITA. Almost nobody wants them there. My guess is even most of the wineries just tolerate it. They completely spoil the mood and most of the people in those groups aren’t walking away singing up for the wine club at the winery or buying half a case of Single Estate Reserve.
The wine tasting scene at the Napa and Sonoma wineries has gotten to be a real double edged sword. Its great that the wineries in the U.S. (compared to say, most of France) open themselves up to the general public for tastings & tours, and promote their product “direct from the source” as a way of fostering a connection between the consumer, the product and the vineyard.
But its also turned into a bit of a shitshow, with far too many folks confusing a tasting room for a bar. In some ways, I even wonder if the near universal institution of tasting fees hasn’t contributed to it – instead of dissuading the party crowd, it just gives them license to treat it like a bar. One of those groups roll into a tasting room and EVERYBODY else in the room starts groaning.
p.a.
@Tommy: they had won.
Gin & Tonic
@Tommy: That is certainly one of my desert island albums, but I don’t think it’ll work well in a car – too subtle.
Another desert island album that may work a little better is Bach’s b-Minor Mass.
Germy Shoemangler
@NotMax: If she likes opera, why not some Andrea Bocelli CDs?
Mike in NC
We’re getting a “World of Beer” franchise locally. If it’s like the one we visited in Tampa, I’ll be a regular.
Germy Shoemangler
@Sibelius: I remember listening to Mahler (I think it was his 9th symphony?) and I spotted a melody that I’d heard constantly as a child in the old “Casper the Friendly Ghost” cartoons. It was their standard “scary ghost” melody refrain.
Brachiator
Now this is tempting, something for wine and beer lovers both. Booze bipartisanship.
Amazon expands Prime Now, offers U.S. alcohol for first time
reuters.com/article/2015/08/25/us-amazon-com-prime-idUSKCN0QU2AR20150825
p.a.
@Cacti: I try not to be a beer snob, but I must say: Coors Light and (Miller) Lite are swill. No redeeming social value.
goblue72
@Mike in NC: America is a strange and diverse place. I can see how in Tampa, World of Beer would be like an oasis. When I lived in Seattle, a World of Beer opened up and lasted maybe 6 months – it was treated like a canker sore by the neighborhood.
Somehow, buried in that, there is a metaphor for Trump.
NotMax
Thanks to all for the recommendations
@gogol’s wife
If you’re a fan of medieval period music and instruments, there’s an unusual semi-rock album can wholeheartedly recommend.
Red Queen to Gryphon Three utilizes medieval instruments and very modern ones. Not, perhaps, to everyone’s taste but I’ve enjoyed the LP since for fun, unpretentious background listening since purchasing it back in the 70s.
And whaddaya know? Full album on YouTube.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Tyro:
It seems weird that they would book large parties and small parties onto the same car. I assume they’re just trying to cram as many people on as possible, but you’re just going to piss everyone off that way.
Sibelius
@efgoldman: I’m the same, can’t listen in the car for both attention and dynamic reasons.
So, you’ze got a bettah Beethoven? Let me have it!
louc
@Tree With Water: Slate did an interesting analysis: Combing through Yelp reviews to check on complaints about rowdy groups. Not once did another rowdy group, including one that had people throwing up, get thrown off the train.
pat
I find the “apology” just a bit condescending. “Yeah, we knew you were going to be loud (cause trouble, laugh while black) and we should have isolated you from the beginning.”
goblue72
@Cacti: Um, yeah, sorry, but…no. The macro-swill output from BMC is just that – swill. Along with the macro-swill from Canada, Mexico, etc.
I’ve sampled several hundred different beers in just the last year or two alone. There’s a LOT of good beer out there – but there’s also some real crap. Everybody’s palate is indeed different, but some people just have bad (or uneducated) ones.
NotMax
@efgoldman
Fortuitously, the volume controls are right there on the steering wheel assembly.
Brachiator
@Sibelius:
Hard to argue with someone named Sibelius, but I’m still partial to Toscanini and the NBC Symphony Orchestra. But I am tempted by this one, and the MP3 is $10.
For some chamber music that many may not know, highly recommend Schubert: String Quartets 14 “Death and the Maiden” & 15 by the Busch String Quartet, also available on amazon.
Gin & Tonic
@efgoldman: I can listen to it anywhere. By now much of it is like the old saw about the prison inmates and the jokes – I almost don’t have to actually hear it.
p.a.
@NotMax: are there cassette-to-cd units as there are for vinyl?
Cacti
O/T
Sen. Patty Murray of WA has announced her support of the Iran Deal (finally).
That makes the official Senate tally 29 in favor.
Remaining Senate Dems who haven’t announced their positions are:
Bennet, Blumenthal, Booker, Cantwell, Cardin, Carper, Casey, Coons, Heitkamp, Manchin, Merkley, Mikulski, Peters, Warner, and Wyden
Sibelius
@Germy Shoemangler: Mahler is like that. He’s quoted by others and also quotes himself quite a bit (his songs reflected in his symphonies etc.). Very dense and definitely not for in the car. I haven’t gotten to the ninth yet. I’m working on the 3rd now.
NotMax
@Sibelius
Call me old school but am partial to some of the Böhm recordings. Some find them too slow and sedate, though.
@NotMax
Should append that have found the Gryphon album pleasant as background while bustling about doing housework.
Tree With Water
@Germy Shoemangler: It’s always fun to recognize a familiar piece of music in another composition. A couple of months ago, I heard a bit part of a Rolling Stones arrangemnt in a piece of classical music that was 300 years old. I was really startled, it being a song I’d heard a thousand times, and listened closely as its brief construct of notes was repeated another couple of times within the old piece. Can’t recall the title of the original work, or the Stones song, either, but it hit my ears clear as a bell. Clever lads, those Glimmer Twins.
geg6
@p.a.:
Perhaps you’re right. But if I’m going to a football game with a tailgate party, I’m drinking Coor’s Light that day. It could add up to a seven or eight hour party and I can drink four or five of those over that time period and not get drunk. It’s more water than beer, so I can have a good time, stay sober and feel okay about the Coor’s, evil as it is to beer bros.
Cacti
@p.a.:
Not liking one brand or another doesn’t make you a snob.
Insulting others for liking a different brand is where the snobbery comes in.
gogol's wife
I like the way John puts “Napa” in all caps, as if it’s an auto-parts company.
Brachiator
@KS in MA:
I understand from the radio interview I heard that they DID refund their money. The offer of the new trip is an attempt to make amends.
gogol's wife
@Sibelius:
Ferenc Fricsay! Are you my ex-husband?
Cacti
@goblue72:
Yep, you’re a beer douche.
rikyrah
The Wine Train Thing Happened to Another Group of Passengers, This Time Latino
By Jeremy Stahl
Another woman has accused the Napa Valley Wine Train of racial bias for threatening to remove her party from the train after a noise complaint made against them in April, even as the company has apologized for a similar incident on Saturday and said it didn’t reflect its values.
The latest report comes after the removal of a group of mostly black women from the train following a similar complaint against them, the difference in this second case being that the group was only threatened with removal and not actually ultimately removed.
Norma Ruiz, a graduate student in the University of California–San Francisco’s nursing program, was celebrating her 28th birthday in April when a patron approached her party of 10 people to say that they were being annoying and loud.
“We were kind of taken by surprise because we were just celebrating my birthday having normal conversation,” Ruiz told me.
slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/08/25/napa_valley_wine_train_discrimination_another_passenger_think…
goblue72
@Cacti: Its not snobbery to criticize crappy taste. It would be one thing to criticize somebody for preferring Sierra Nevada’s Pale over Ballast Point’s Sculpin or Russian River’s Pliny. But when it comes to macro swill versus real beer?
Its perfectly legitimate to have TASTE. One of the atrocious things that the right wing has foisted on this country is the glorification of shitty taste.
goblue72
@Cacti: I’ve bothered to educate my palate and expand my horizons because life is too short to drink shitty beer.
Cacti
@goblue72:
Beer douche.
gogol's wife
@NotMax:
That sounds like stuff I spent the 70s listening to. Thanks! I never heard of it.
Tree With Water
@geg6: That’s right. By the time I drank my last beer not all that long ago, I had sampled connoisseur-wide varieties over the decades. But in the scenario you describe, Coors was just fine, and better than many.
Cacti
@goblue72:
Good for you. Want a cookie?
Maybe they can chisel “beer connoisseur” on your headstone.
Sibelius
@NotMax: See. I told you we all have our favorites! The one Bohm recording I really like is his Figaro. His pacing works very well in that, not my favorite any longer, but a really nice recording with great female singing.
Old school would be the Toscanini mentioned above. I am one that has issues with older recordings. I have to have good sound as well as a good performance. Audiophile snob I guess. That said the Fricsay is one of those that’s both good sound and great performance.
Another rec. would be a Mozart overture disc. I have one by Neville Marriner, but there’s loads. His overtures are in a music class by themselves, and would be great in the car.
Sibelius
@Brachiator: Toscanini and the Busch Quartet, you are old school!
NotMax
@Sibelius
IMHO, Böhm’s ne plus ultra is Die Fledermaus.
Great minds cogitate similarly: already have a disc of Mozart Overtures on the list. :)
Sibelius
@gogol’s wife: I’m not quite the Fricsay fanatic that some are, but in this case I agree with them.
No one’s ex. here. Still a current, at least when she left for work this morning.
guachi
@pat:
Please point to the words in the apology that indicate any racism. If you live to be offended, you’ll be offended.
goblue72
@geg6: You don’t need to drink barely fermented corn juice if you want to stay sober-ish at a tailgate. If you’re interested in something tastier that won’t trash you, a lot of craft brewers have started making “session” beers – lower ABV versions of pales, IPAs, etc.
Full Sail Brewing out of Oregon has an appropriately named lineup under their “Session” brand which gets fairly wide distribution. Their Session IPA and Session Black Lager clock in around 5.1% ABV. Coors Light is 4.2% ABV, by comparison.
Anchor Steam (CA) – which is really widely available – comes in at a modest 4.9% ABV.
Bells’s Oarsman (MI) is a funky lemony weiss at 4.0%.
Lagunitas Day Time IPA (4.6%) & Sierra Summerfest (5.0%) are both quite nice. Jack’s Abby in the Boston area has a Session Lager (4.5%) that is great in the summer. Coast Brewing in South Carolina has a Session Kolsch. Founder’s All Day IPA (MI) is a great session (4.7% ABV) & it comes in a 15-pack of cans.
Lots of choices out there for beer drinkers who want to keep it light, but still drink beer made out of malted barley & quality hops, and not corn juice & rice.
goblue72
@Cacti: You keep saying that like I’m going to be insulted by the opinion of someone with shitty taste in beer.
gogol's wife
@Sibelius:
His Don Giovanni is great.
NotMax
@gogol’s wife
Rock albums have always suffered from too little sackbut.
:)
Cacti
@goblue72:
Beer douche is still a beer douche.
Steve from Antioch
i would fully support a reparations program that consisted of free trips on the wine train.
catclub
@efgoldman:
Agreed. Too many quiet passages. Also SMP.
Sibelius
@gogol’s wife: Ok, going to slip this in where it won’t get noticed, but Don Giovanni, for me, is John Eliot Gardiner and his English Baroque Orchestra. Simply brilliant. Live, hot, enchanting. Perfect. His Figaro is equally outstanding, sadly his Cosi is not. I know, period instruments, blah blah blah…I have most of the others and I’ll never let these go. Two more of my desert island discs.
NotMax
@efgoldman
Very late posting it, but a pic of the audio controls on the steering wheel.
SiubhanDuinne
@NotMax:
I am slowly transferring my YOOOOOGE classical collection to computer, and if you and your mom are in no hurry, I’d be glad to send her some of my old CDs. Still need to do a proper inventory, so it will likely be a few months before I’m ready to pack them up.
As for specific recommendations, can you be a little more precise about what she likes? When I am on a long road trip (or at home), I enjoy listening to complete symphonies, operas, lengthy tone poems and concertos and chamber works. When I am just driving around town doing errands, I much prefer listening to overtures, waltzes, Sousa marches, and similar pieces that may last only a few minutes.
SiubhanDuinne
@Tommy:
Agreed. I never imagined, in my wildest dreams, that I would find myself defending FOX News. But I am actually feeling kind of sorry — just a leeetle bit — for Megyn Kelly (not Roger Ailes, though, and definitely not Rupert Murdoch).
Msskwesq
Is it just me or did the CEO just make it worse? I didn’t like his constantly talking about them being “boisterous” and the idea of separating them in their own car– that smacks of segregation. I would not go if I was them. There’s better things to do than that crappy train. I will never go on it that’s for sure! I didn’t think he was sorry about humiliating those women but was sorry it caused him a backlash.
SiubhanDuinne
@catclub:
Hey, thanks for the shoutout. I think we actually have a number of commenters here who know about classical music (although in all modesty, and candor, efgoldman and I I would try to name them but I know I’d leave out some key experts. Suffice it to say that this is an all-purpose blog, and we live to serve. My own recommendations are a comment or two up.
NotMax
@SiubhanDuinne
Wow, that’s extremely generous and I’d be more than elated to take you up on that whenever the time is right.
As to specific artists or pieces, really cannot say. But the oeuvre is one she enjoys. Was after stuff such as you mention, short and varied and snappy enough to listen to while driving so as not to induce lethargy.
Besides classical, also going middlebrow and going to be bringing her a CD of the Kevin Kline/Linda Ronstadt Pirates of Penzance just for funsies.
She’s 87 and still firmly holds on to and uses her season tickets for the Met.
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
Nor could I. I’ll allow the Brandenburgs and the four Overtures as driving music, but otherwise Bach deserves to be listened to closely, carefully, and reverently.
SiubhanDuinne
@Tree With Water:
Heh. Have you ever heard the Grand Valse by Francisco Tárrega (written in 1902)?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_tune (sorry about the spoiler).
Sibelius
@SiubhanDuinne: Good luck with the transfer. I’ve tried a few and the meta data issue gives me fits every time, especially with older works and multi disc sets (the Harnoncourt Beethoven cycle was really bad) Also, opera was frequently so messed up to the point of uselessness. I think it’s getting better as more do the transfer though.
My collection is small, especially now that I use Spotify to weed out BEFORE I buy. I can’t tell you how many cd’s I’ve bought on some reviewer’s rave that were, well, not to my taste, and opera is especially expensive. I donate them to the library.
And just to throw this out to classical fans if you are the streaming sort The Royal Concertgebouw stream is excellent. Live (recorded) concerts of outstanding conductors leading one of the premier orchestras in the world. FREE! I use my Squeezebox and home stereo, but they stream online at (sorry not good with the linky) concertgebouworkest.nl/en/
NotMax
@Sibelius
Have linked this previously but quite funny, classical and under three minutes.
Rachmaninov Had Big Hands.
chromeagnomen
“In other news, asshat Curt Shilling is suspended from ESPN for offensive comments. A surprise to no one, I’m sure.”
i smell a VP slot.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
It’s weird how upscale white tourist areas view the occasional black folks who show up.After graduating college I spent a ski season out in Vail, CO. That particular year, the National Brotherhood of Skiers chose Vail for their annual get together. the NBS is a Black national skiing organization. Most of the people I worked with at the ski shop were from either Colorado or the skiing hotbeds of New England. They were so nervous that black people were coming to town in large numbers. I really have no idea what they expected – some stereotype gangbangers maybe, based on movies they’d seen? When they all turned out to be reasonably polite, law abiding citizens, everyone was so pleasantly surprised.
Having gone to a high school in Michigan with a lot of diversity – the student population was something like a quarter African American, 10 percent Hispanic, and 5 percent Asian immigrants, I knew what to expect from middle and upper class black folks, but that information is in short supply in America’s more lily white vacation destinations.
mere mortal
@Msskwesq: “and the idea of separating them in their own car– that smacks of segregation. I would not go if I was them.”
Umm, if I knew someone in that book club, I would call in every favor, real or imagined, plus more promised, to make that car.
Because the CEO will have, in no uncertain terms, made clear to every one of his employees that their job depends on that being the trip of a lifetime. Indeed, that the well-being of the company depends on it.
I would anticipate VIP treatment and beyond, fine dining, tastings of insanely unaffordable wines, experts showing palate tricks and such, waitstaff figuring out what you don’t yet know you wanted, plus free bottles to take home.
It’s hard to overstate how much of a catastrophe it is that “Napa Valley Wine Train” brings up the bad press before the company site in the Google search.
Paul in KY
@p.a.: Coors Light is horrible. Maybe Sterling is worse…
Paul in KY
@mere mortal: I would expect their best staff to be there.