Canadian commenter NorthLeft12, freshly returned from vacation, wondered this morning at the dearth of posts here on the migrant crisis in Europe. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I can tell you why I haven’t addressed it: I don’t know what to say.
I wish there was something I could do besides making donations to relief organizations, an activity that feels like attempting to bail an ocean with a Dixie cup, and supporting politicians with comparatively sane and humane views on this and other issues.
Let me clarify: There is much the United States could and should do. And President Obama, as one of the saner and more humane politicians we’ve got, will probably do as much as he can within the constraints of our political system. But those constraints are straitjacket-proportioned on this issue, so I don’t expect much at all, maybe a relative handful of resettlements and a few large bales of cash. This country doesn’t have the appetite for anything else.
Today’s NYT reports that Iraqis are taking note of the mass migration from Syria and leaving in droves as well, hoping a European country will take them in along with refugees from Syria, Afghanistan and various war-torn African countries. Who can blame them? I’d sure as hell try to get out if I were them. The Times interviewed one refugee who wants to use Europe as a stepping stone to America:
One of them, Hattam Jabbar, 28, pulled from his shoulder bag an identification card issued in 2008 by the United States Army that said he was a fighter for the “Sons of Iraq,” the United States-backed program that brought Sunni fighters into the government fold to fight what was then Al Qaeda in Iraq, the precursor to the Islamic State.
“There is nothing to make me sad about leaving,” he said. “There is no humanity here.”
Mr. Hattam said he hoped his journey ends not in Europe but in the United States, where, he said, “even the dogs live well.”
He explained what he meant by telling a story an Iraqi friend living in the United States had recently told him. The friend, he said, had gone to the supermarket and left his dog in his car with the windows up on a hot day. A police officer, seeing this, scolded him, and told him he was putting the dog at risk.
“That means they even respect the dogs,” he said. “Even the dogs have rights in America.”
What Hattam Jabbar fails to understand is that many of us — maybe even most of us — care more about dogs than people. I’m guilty of that myself. People are horrible much of the time. Dogs aren’t. And it feels like we can sometimes save dogs, but there’s fuck-all we can do to save humans.
In America, we don’t give a shit about our own poor and brutalized native-born countrymen, so we’re sure as hell not going to volunteer to take in hundreds of thousands of refugees, particularly brown ones with a religion that millions of us regard as suspect.
Can you imagine what would happen if President Obama, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Martin O’Malley, etc., suggested that we need to resettle the same number of refugees that Germany, a much smaller country by area and population, is taking in?
Forget that the U.S. is more culpable in the regional instability that is driving the migration crisis than any other nation — as far as most of our fellow citizens are concerned, we’ve done our bit by pouring a trillion or so dollars down the rat-hole over there. If some of those planeloads of cash resurfaced here in the form of Halliburton dividend checks, it seems relatively few people give a shit.
So yeah, no. Not gonna happen. Half of our fellow citizens are already in full freak-out mode over the largely Christian undocumented immigrants whom U.S. employers hire to pick their tomatoes and landscape their office parks. If Democrats try to do the right thing about the migrant crisis in Europe, hello, President Trump.
There’s no humanity here either, Hattam Jabbar. Good luck to you, brother.
Belafon
I was having this argument yesterday on another blog with someone who wanted the US to take thousands in. In addition to the legal hurdles, I kept pointing out what we did to the children from Central America through Mexico. If we can’t even accept children, how would we accept families from the Middle East?
Joey Maloney
Point of information: Yes, the Syrians are fleeing because of political instability, but that instability didn’t just come out of nowhere. It was at the very least pushed over the edge by climate change.
By way of saying: Brace yourselves. Summer is coming.
Elizabelle
We in the US covered ourselves in glory with our treatment of the Iraqi translators who served our troops and diplomats, at peril to themselves.
Cannot wait to hear what messages Pope Francis might deliver during his visit to this most Christian of nations.
Felonius Monk
Ah, yes.
Not. ‘Cause Amerika for Amerukins.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Betty Cracker:
Straitjacket.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Hell, we’re not even willing to take in the Iraqis who risked their lives to help us in that country. Why would we bother to help total strangers?
Individual Americans may be nice, generous people, but our politics is mean, mean, mean.
Betty Cracker
@Steeplejack (phone): Fixed. Thanks!
raven
Donald J. Trump, who received draft deferments through much of the Vietnam War, told the author of a forthcoming biography that he nevertheless “always felt that I was in the military” because of his education at a military-themed boarding school.
greennotGreen
All those “Christians” who are so ready to damn people for being homosexuals? How do they have time between writing and calling their congressional representatives demanding that the U.S. take in as many refugees as possible?
“For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in…” Matthew 25:35
Elizabelle
Visions of Balloon Juice to come: Tom Levenson will put up an excellent blogpost on David “Bobo” Brooks’ latest garbage du jour.
Appeared a few moments ago, but fled the bigfooting. Stay tuned.
JPL
The news media covered the humanitarian crisis when a child washed ashore. The news media covered the crisis when refugees covered the tracks in Hungary. I don’t have cable but I haven’t heard the media speak about how we can help.
Mike in NC
The usual suspects in our media will claim that the refugees fleeing Iraq and Syria are actually stealth terrorists hell bent on coming to America to carry out nefarious deeds.
MattF
It wouldn’t surprise me if Obama acted eventually in concert with the Euros– I can see him doing some good, and if it pisses off the opposition, so much the better. But I don’t expect anything to happen soon, that’s not his style.
Note, in particular, that the circus (i.e.., Congress) has just come back into town in DC, and the media’s short attention span will be occupied. Note also, btw, that the Iran deal has got enough supporters in the Senate to do a filibuster, so there will be much weeping and moaning about that.
askew
theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/07/refugee-crisis-immigration-us-presidential-candidates
Guardian asked all 22 candidates if the U.S. should accept refugees. Only 2 said yes – O’Malley and Kasich.
O’Malley has called for the U.S. to accept 65,000 Syrian refugees by the end of 2016. Hillary and Bernie have ducked the question.
Not surprised O’Malley is leading on another refugee crisis and not surprised that Hillary is ducking the question. Disappointed that Bernie ducked the question.
askew
Here’s Sanders half-assed answer to the question from Iowa Starting Line:
Ken
One thing you could post, if you have it, is a list of legitimate charities helping the refugees.
It’s always a problem sorting out the real charities from the scams.
I know that it’s no easier for you than it is for us, but if folks know a legit charity, it can’t hurt to get their info out.
Maybe some sort of crowdsourced list(s)?
John O
That was pretty good for someone who didn’t know what to say.
Hawes
For someone who doesn’t know what to say, you said it all
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Heh. And scary as shit.
Betty Cracker
@Elizabelle: Oh crap, I didn’t see a new post and certainly didn’t mean to stomp on Tom! FYWP makes it hard to avoid stompage, particularly if you’re posting from a mobile device. Sorry, Tom!
Brachiator
@greennotGreen:
Easy dig on Christians. What excuse do supposedly good liberals have?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ken: Oxfam and MSF/DWB both have alerts out.
Reminder: It’s better not specify what your donation should/can be used for, it hamstrings the orgs from replenishing money already spent, and generally creates administrative headaches for them.
gene108
America is in a pretty strong anti-immigration mood.
It is not just the Republicans, though they are taking it further than the Democrats, with their talk of ending birth-right citizenship.
I think if Americans felt more secure economically, they may feel better about immigration, but as it is immigration is a hard sell.
Botsplainer
Kim Davis is being released, conditioned on not interfering with any deputy clerks who issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Especially with Ay-Rabs. And the usual suspects are already talking about ISIS sleeper agents sneaking in with the refugees.
Calouste
Germany is going to take in 800,000 refugees this year, and the Vice-Chancellor suggested that they can take in another half million a year for the next few years.
One of Germany’s employer’s organization has said that they hope the refugees can get cleared to work soon, because with employment levels at the lowest since 1991, there are lot of jobs for educated refugees.
acallidryas
It is tragic and I agree that it is unlikely we’ll see significant welcoming of refugees here at home, certainly not the extent that we should given our resources and moral culpability. But that doesn’t mean we can avoid being involved. We shouldn’t just be sitting around feeling sad and cynical and self-righteous (and yes, I realize those last two are kind of the raison d’etre of blogs). Here are some suggestions:
1) Help organizations that are serving refugees in Syria and throughout the Mediterranean. Some suggestions can be found here: pri.org/stories/2015-09-03/5-groups-doing-important-work-help-refugees-you-may-not-have-heard. Islamic Relief is also doing a ton here.
2) Join a refugee advocacy group, like the Refugee Council and some of their members, rcusa.org/. And honestly, faith based groups are doing a lot of the heavy lifting on this–Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, Church World Services, and even the Catholic through their Migration and Refugee Service have been doing a ton of advocacy. In fact, here’s HIAS’s petition: support.hias.org/site/PageNavigator/AskthePresidenttoTakeBoldLeadershipforSyrianRefugees.html
3) Look into local refugee organizations to do what you can to help. Most people don’t even think about what happens once people get in, but refugees generally get fuck-all when they get into a country and get all their documentation. See if there’s a local group helping out. The one in my area has volunteers on call to basically bring everything in to start someone off with a household when they find out a family is moving to their area–one group of people takes the kitchen, another the bathroom, some people get furniture, etc. It might not bring more people in, but it does a lot to help the few that do get through.
Roger Moore
@Joey Maloney:
Not just climate change, but other kinds of environmental degradation as well. This is true of a surprising number of global hot-spots. People are fine with their neighbors as long as there are enough resources to go around, but they remember old feuds as soon as they find themselves under stress from environmental degradation.
Betty Cracker
@askew: Meanwhile, Germany is taking in 800,000 thousand by the end of this year. Yeah, I realize they’re on Merkel’s doorstep, so it’s not an issue Germany can back-burner the way we can, isolated by our oceans. But it just goes to show the difference in what counts for generosity and bravery.
It also raises a question: How smart would it be for any Democrat to really push this issue right now? It could very well be political suicide.
Manyakitty
@Ken: Doctors without Borders/MSF is ALWAYS on the front lines of these things, and they’re a solid, well-managed organization.
MomSense
You said it very well, Betty. Half the country doesn’t want to do anything big or good anymore. They don’t even want to fix the broken roads and bridges anymore. The same half is also extremely xenophobic and incurious about the rest of the world.
We can’t move forward on much at all unless we figure out how to deal with this.
Bobby Thomson
@Botsplainer: so in other words, she caved and took the deal the judge offered last week. If she reneges . . . .
Felonius Monk
OT (Update): Kim Davis is apparently being released from jail today. Maybe short-circuiting the Huckabee/Cruz circus that’s coming to town.
ETA: Sorry. I missed Botsplainers comment above.
ThresherK (GPad)
I can’t imagine talking sense on this to the right wing on this. They haven’t washed the pants they soiled over putting (random people swept up) Guantanamo detainees into a goddamned military prison.
PurpleGirl
@raven: As I wrote at the end of the last thread: Trump’s parents put him in a military school because he’d had to leave several other schools due to academic and behavioral problems. It was a last-ditched effort by his parents to get him through school. He may have attended Wharton but before that his school career was a mess.
raven
@PurpleGirl: He’s punk, fuck him,
shell
Even with legit charities, people are getting wary. Think of all the millions that went to Haiti after the earthquake, with much disappearing.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
Tough words, but probably true to a large degree.
I suspect that many Americans of all ideological stripes, are isolationist. Oddly enough, we will welcome some people in sometimes, but still look for all kinds of reasons to cling to Fortress America, and to set ourselves apart from the world.
Like the Canadian commenter, I find it interesting not only that there are few posts on this subject, but also that people don’t seem to even want to try to understand the extent of the problem.
This is not quite true. Assad of Syria seems to have caused a great deal of this instability. And no one knows how to deal with him.
This is a world wide crisis. It has been interesting to see Britons push back against UK prime minister Cameron’s feeble efforts. And it is sad to note how Eastern European countries seem to be closing their borders more tightly even as Western European countries try to do more.
And there will be more problems to come. A recent Al jazeera article gives an idea of the scope of the problem:
And the elephant in the room is the refusal of prosperous, stable Middle Eastern countries to do anything (although some Balloon Juicers are quick to condemn Israel):
aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/09/refugee-crisis-gulf-countries-150905085458691.html
The larger question is what, if anything, can be done to promote stability in the areas beset by war. The Aljazeera story includes this little tidbit:
And nobody has an answer for this one.
Sherparick
The war unleashed Cheney and Bush, and climate change in the Middle East and Africa (hotter and dryer), are the basic drivers of his migration. If we had an ounce of conscience, if these so-called Christians on the Republican side, for whom every “foetus and zygote” is precious, would be willing to exercise some “leadership: and state that they would support accepting a proportional number of migrants based on our population and culpability, then a lot of nice things would be possible. I can still write my Congressman.
gene108
@Betty Cracker:
But professionals in the USA are working to block 65,000 people coming in on H1-b visas.
usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/07/06/backlash-stirs-in-us-against-foreign-worker-visas/12266…
We can gnash our teeth about our responsibility for the mess in the ME all we want, but at the end of the day, if people feel like every new person in this country is coming for their jobs and their employers will give those jobs out to the “lowest bidder”, there’s going to be know room for any sort of refugee program here.
Hell, the people coming from Latin America last year were kids, who would not be directly competing for jobs and that caused a freak out.
Grown ass adults, with families to support, sure as shit ain’t gonna happen and there’d be as many liberals against it as conservatives, the second someone feels they lost their job to a “Muslim refugee” willing to work for less.
@acallidryas:
Thank you for posting the links.
lgerard
I’m disappointed.
I was looking forward to Kim Davis fasting for 40 days and 40 nights while Huckabee and Cruz wailed outside her cell and the whole wingnut circus reprised their Shiavo performance.
JMV Pyro
@askew:
Your obsession with the guy’s run is starting to reach “Bob in Portland on the Ukraine” levels of single-mindedness. I get that you feel like O’Malley isn’t getting noticed, but pontificating on how he is the leadingist presidential candidate to ever lead every time he says anything on any issue has gotten old.
boatboy_srq
@Betty Cracker:
Everyone keeps talking about 1932 and 1929 and 1861. It feels a lot more like 1919 to me: unrest in the Old World, kept from the shores of the US by isolationism and anti-Otherism and matched by anti-Otherism that manifests in US attitudes toward the rest of the Western Hemisphere (the new US-Cuba détente notwithstanding). I keep expecting Kasich to be campaigning on “Back to Normalcy Redux.”
Calouste
@Felonius Monk: Depending on when exactly she is going to be released from jail, she’ll probably show up with sister-molester supporter Mike Huckabee and/or Cruz. And there she’ll likely say exactly what got her jailed for contempt in the first place. I think she’ll either flee the state or be back in jail by the end of the week.
D58826
I’ve come to the conclusion that we deserve president Trump and VP Cruz. Walker can be Sec of state and Graham defense secretary. The GOP and their democratic quisling enablers Schummer/Cardin and Machin, are planning on adding a Christmas tree list of poison pills to the Iran agreement legislation. There is one amendment that shows just how far our esteemed Senators are will to stick their heads up Bibi’s but. The amendment directs DOD to transfer our largest bunker buster bomb and it related deliver system to Israel. The ‘related delivery system’ is a polite way of referring to the nuclear capable intercontinental B52 or B2 bombers. Why anyone in their right mind ( insert crazy republican joke here) would even put something like that on a piece of paper shows how far this country has gone off the rails..
Sherparick
@Brachiator: We are tribal animals, and we and the East Europeans are about as tribal as they come. Also, I know a lot of working class Germans who are not on board with what happening. They have had flat wages, loss of benefits, and higher taxs (VAT over 20%!!!) the last 15 years and are not particularly happy taking in more refugees, who by German law are not allowed to work, but get lots of benefits (free housing, allowances, health care – a system set up when ethnic Germans were migrating back to Germany from Eastern Europe and Russia during and just after the Cold War). So the resentment there is raw and ready for exploitation by the political right.
gene108
@Brachiator:
Eastern Europe is not nearly as prosperous as Western Europe or the U.S.A. Part of me cannot fault them for not extending a social safety net to refugees, as they may not all that much to give.
mai naem mobile
I’ve been following this a little. A friend’s sister is doing some research in Macedonia so it’s affecting them obviously. She’s gone out and done some entertainment stuff for the kids in the refugee areas.
A good part of the refugee issue is our fault and its disgusting that we aren’t taking a substantial number of these people. Dubbya and Darth should be pushing for this.but because the Dim and Dimmer of US politics are arse holes they won’t. Also,no $$$ to be made off refugees.
D58826
@Bobby Thomson: Actually it makes a lot of sense. She prayed that God would answer her prayers for divine intervention. Well when God reply’s by sending Cruz and Hucklebee I think He is sending the message that he doesn’t think much of her argument.
catclub
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
And the Obama admin is highly risk averse. Hence the border security deporting far more than the Bush admin ever did.
Also, the endless security bureaucracy to keep terrorist Syrians or Iraqis from sneaking in with other refugees – and resulting in almost zero Syrian or Iraqi refugees here.
Betty Cracker
@gene108: I can’t really fault them either — a “take care of your own first” attitude is a normal human reaction. I also don’t think it’s automatically insane or racist for the US or any other country to have security concerns about a flood of refugees from Iraq, Syria and other countries with a significant religious extremism problem, though the people who talk about it the most seem to be the Ann Coulter types.
Elizabelle
@D58826:
Fuck no. I don’t even want to hear that shit.
You might. I don’t, and neither do my family and loved ones.
ETA: I don’t mean to make it personal, D58826, but I get sick of that style of rhetoric. It’s why people are here, and not at Firedoglake (albeit, that is now a defunct website).
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@JMV Pyro: Give her a break, please. Unless I’ve misread her, she’s walking the talk – attending political events in Iowa, etc. Askew posts links and presents reasoned arguments for her support of O’Malley. It’s a good counterpoint to the almost relentless negativism about him here. She’s not spamming the board or hijacking discussions with off-topic nonsense.
We should welcome posts like hers, IMHO. Mutual admiration societies are boring.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Belafon
@Brachiator:
On the other hand, Jordan has taken in over a million.
JimV
Great post. I don’t know what to say either, but couldn’t have said it as well.
Tom Levenson
@Betty Cracker: You didn’t bigfoot me. I (almost) bigfooted you, and withdrew until just about now.
Matt McIrvin
@D58826:
Whenever I have these thoughts the automatic response I give myself is “what do you mean ‘we’, white man?”
JMT
FWIW The International Rescue Committee has been working to help Syrians within Syria and supporting Syrian refugees for years, including providing support to refugees entering Europe through Greece. IRC is highly rated by Charity Navigator and Charity Watch: 92% of funds are used for programs and services.
Belafon
@gene108: Which is why I argue that H-1B holders should be required to receive the pay of an equivalent US employee.
This is also a comparison of the safety nets of the US and Germany (or the whole of Europe for that matter). You lose your job in Germany, you’re not suddenly going to be out on the street. No guarantee here.
Brachiator
@gene108:
True to some extent, but a current NYT blog posts sheds some light
Austerity riddled Greece has been kinder.
boatboy_srq
@mai naem mobile: Likewise. I’m holidaying in Central Europe (seeing friends) – and Budapest is my rail hub for much of the trip. I’m watching the news from Hungary and biting my nails.
True; but so is the refugee/migrant issue from Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean (and has been for over decades); but that’s never stopped a frightening number of Muricans complaining about Messicans and trying to close the border.
Betty Cracker
@Tom Levenson: Whew! Despite my best efforts, I do occasionally stomp someone else’s post, and I always feel like a heel about it! Glad that wasn’t the case. :)
benw
@D58826:
Deserve’s got nothing to do with it. Let’s try to elect the people who will do the most good, and not give in to the crazies.
Archon
@catclub:
The Obama administration is a lot of things, “highly risk averse” wouldn’t be one of them. Risk averse administrations don’t do the Affordable Care Act or the Bin Laden Raid, or even the Iran deal for that matter.
On the issue of deportations increasing them was a way to signal to the right he was serious about border control as part of an immigration reform deal.
In other words “misjudging how little the right cares about policy and governance, and how the electorate wouldn’t punish them for it” is a better way to describe the early Obama administration.
Freemark
@gene108: Poor comparison. H1-b visas should be virtually eliminated. Their almost sole current purpose is to get cheap educated workers that are beholden to their employer as de facto indentured servants. Instead of H1-b visas these ‘irreplaceable’ workers should be given resident alien status. But the companies hiring H1-bs hate that idea because it makes it harder to treat them illegally and pay them poorly. The whole point of the H1-b visa is the power it gives the employer over the employee.
D58826
@Elizabelle: I really think we need a snark font. Of course no one deserves Trump and Cruz, unless maybe they all move to an island with Bobby Jindal. And the wingnuts keep getting elected. We progressives are doing something wrong here
goblue72
@Betty Cracker: And you’ve hit the nut straight on. There’s nothing inherently wrong with a citizenry feeling anxious about letting a lot of mostly really poor migrants into the country when that same citizenry has seen flat wages for decades, a complete erosion of their retirement/pension system, a housing affordability crisis in most major job centers, shrinking prospects for their children, and a system where only the stinking filthy rich get ahead.
When prosperity is more broadly shared, people get less anxious. When its hoarded by the oligarchs, the people get fearful & angry. The solution isn’t to criticize the people. The solution is to destroy the oligarchs.
Peale
@Belafon: Problem is that those H1-Bs don’t work for US employers, but work for a “staffing company” that claims to be global but only hires in India. The H1-B program should be changed to undo that model. Nurses and doctors get hired as H1-Bs, but there are very few medial staffing agencies that keep a roster of H1-B holders handy to permanently work as temps. (Physical therapists and x-ray technicians is another story).
goblue72
@Freemark: Agreed. The H1-B system is highly abused by the tech industry – with a handful of large companies leading the pack of abusers – Infosys, Wipro, Microsoft, Tata, IBM, Oracle. Companies which do NOT lack access to skilled labor – but rather lack access to cheap, easily exploited skilled labor.
Matt McIrvin
@Freemark: This is what I was saying the other day: give them green cards instead.
Of course, people immediately pointed out that it was politically impossible, which is probably true, and is the same problem we’re talking about in this thread. But if you want to move the discussion I think you have to start by advocating politically impossible things.
And I defy anyone to come up with a reason why the H-1B workers I know shouldn’t get green cards. After all, their effect on the US job market with resident alien status ought to be better than with an H-1B, not worse, since I’d think it would increase their demand for higher wages and their propensity to spend money.
Brachiator
@Sherparick:
Very true. There has also been nationalist and anti-immigrant sentiment bubbling up in many European countries. The amazing thing is that there has been an humanitarian push-back not only on the part of government, but also on the part of average citizens. This may not last, and even accepting migration is not a long term solution, but it is a start.
There is a very good series of vignettes on migrants and their travels at the NY Times site. “Traveling in Europe’s River of Migrants.” Some amazing photos as well.
nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/reporters-notebook/migrants/hungary-treatment-refugees
WaterGirl
@raven: I went to an indian-themed day camp when I was a young girl. I have always wondered why I feel like I’m native american, and now I have the answer.
Is this guy an idiot? He says he feels like he’s been in the military because he went to a military themed school? and he says it out loud to someone who is recording stuff to write in a book?
MattF
@D58826: A suggestion for the upgraded BJ: an option to post comments in Comic Sans.
askew
@Betty Cracker:
Well, one Democrat is pushing the issue, O’Malley. Just like he pushed the issue with child refugees from Central America. He ended up taking more refugees than any other state per capita and settling them in foster care. One of the reasons I am such a passionate supporter. He cares more about taking the right stand on issues, backing his words up with action than in playing safe.
Wish we could say that about any other Dem right now on Syria.
Brachiator
@Belafon:
Fair point. A huge number of refugees are in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Turkey and Iraq. A site for an organization called Mercy Corps estimates that 1 in 5 people in Lebanon are Syrian refugees, and 1 in 13 people in Jordan.
askew
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Thanks.
greenergood
Here in the UK we’ve got the right idea – scrimp and nit-pick about how many Syrians we’ll let in, but welcome 30,000 arms dealers to the annual DSEI London Arms Fair – gotta feed those arms dealers y’know: action.globaljustice.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=1784&ea.campaign.id=41873&ea.tra…
Paul in KY
@lgerard: I’ll be surprised if she stays on judge’s good side. I think she likes the attention.
Paul in KY
@D58826: I don’t deserve them.
Betty Cracker
@goblue72: I can’t disagree with anything you’ve said there — nativism rarely springs up in a vacuum, and if we attribute the entire problem to bigotry and greed on the part of working people, we’re condemning a symptom rather than the cause.
boatboy_srq
@WaterGirl: He’ll claim he was misinterquotationaled (that’s the appropriate Shrubism, no? Plus points for the polysyllable).
satby
@shell: That’s because the American Red Cross sucked up it’s usual millions, and then distributed very little proportionately to relief on the ground there. DWB and Partners in Health were very active working with a relative pittance by comparison.
International Rescue Committee does good work with refugees too.
WaterGirl
@satby: I haven’t trusted the Red Cross in at least 10 years. I’m glad they were shown for what they are. Sad, though, because people like my sister – who always does the “add $10 on my phone bill” thing whenever there’s a crisis – will never research other good charities.
C.V. Danes
@Joey Maloney: So, so true.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Europe is going to have to acknowledge and come to terms with their own, incredibly deep-seated, racism. Which will take centuries to properly address and remediate.
We can’t do it for them and we should not even try.
Omnes Omnibus
@CONGRATULATIONS!: That doesn’t mean the the US doesn’t bear significant responsibility for this crisis and the that the US should do nothing to help. We do and we should.
satby
@WaterGirl: I was a volunteer for them for years, culminating in being part of the disaster response team for Katrina. Later ARC became one of my company’s accounts and I was one of the service managers. The money they wasted was breathtaking; and so frustrating because a lot of really good people worked like hell to make a difference. Never give them a dime.
I was part of a disaster relief team in Haiti too, this one based in New Zealand. I can never sing the praises of Doctors Without Borders enough if I live to be a thousand. They seemed to be working everywhere, and hugely effectively.
satby
@Omnes Omnibus: Exactly. Morally and practically we should be doing at least as much as Germany, if not 3 times as much. But people are so bigoted against Muslims in this country we couldn’t even place high school kids from Muslim countries that won a State Department scholarship to study here.
JoyfulA
@Ken: Church World Service just settled a Syrian refugee family in Lancaster, PA, per Atrios: eschatonblog.com/2015/09/much-more-like-this.html
lancasteronline.com/news/local/st-syrian-refugee-family-arrives-in-lancaster-county-beginning-of/art…
Peale
@Omnes Omnibus: In order to get the US to bear responsibility, our leaders would need to come clean as to why exactly it was in the interests of the US to try to oust Assad and Khadaffi in such a violent manner and why it is in our interests to support the other side. They won’t, so I don’t expect much fessing up to responsibility here.
Maybe we’ll fess up when it comes time to take in Yemen’s refugees, who should be coming any day now.
Bobby Thomson
@Paul in KY: according to TPM her lawyers are already saying she plans to go back to blocking marriages. If Kentucky politics weren’t so retrograde there’d be a slam dunk case for impeachment at this point.
Freemark
@JoyfulA: Thanks for the link. I think I’ll volunteer to help since I’m fairly close.
Peale
@Bobby Thomson: Yep. I’m wondering if she’ll make good on her idea that any SSM licenses issued while she was in jail aren’t valid. If the paper is issued by the clerk’s office but the clerk destroys the record, is the paper still valid?
Luthe
@Omnes Omnibus: The US has a responsibility to help, yes, but I’m wondering why no one is talking about how much responsibility should be on the Russians, as well. They’ve been major Assad supporters and a huge reason why the Syrian civil war has lasted as long as it has. Why aren’t they being called on to take in refugees and provide contributions?
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@goblue72:
Yep. The H1B system is rife with abuse, and not from the employee side. Anyone who blames the visa holders is ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that employers have systematically used H1B visas to suppress wages in the tech industry. The “prevailing wage” test is a fucking joke.
Brachiator
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
This certainly sounds like a formula for doing nothing. All the refugees would be dead waiting for this supposed soul searching to begin.
This kinda bypasses the incredibly deep-seated racism in the United States. Do we need extra centuries to address this as well?
Meanwhile, Germany, despite all its deep-seated racism awaiting remediation, is doing something.
What does it take for the US to do something to help?
And again, it is not just a matter of absorbing refugees. The problem will increase if ways cannot be found to promote stability in countries racked by war and turmoil.
JoyfulA
@Freemark: Thanks! Now I feel I’ve advanced civilization today.
In the past, churches I’ve been affiliated with have sponsored Cambodian, Cuban, and Ugandan refugee families. I’ll make a suggestion Sunday.
Keith G
Any look at European history shows that migration (pre AD 1000 often called invasion). Its what humans do. Humans move.
But now we have expensive maps and immigration policies.
We (the big we) still need to reckon with basic human behavior passed down to us by our prehuman ancestors. The best long term reckoning is to do as much as possible try to lessen the stimulation to move. Provide safety, food, work and education where they are. That’s a tall order, but it is an important step.
Europe is learning that they have to get more involved with positive actions in the third world and not just resource stripping. Can the world operate as one, or several, big HOA – telling bad actors to shape up or else because their refugees are screwing with property values?
Refugees have a right to flee. Societies that can, have an obligation to accept refugees. What rights do destination areas have vis a vis the government (or non governmental actor) whose actions are causing the refugees to flee?
D58826
@Peale: She claims the licenses issued last week are worthless because she didn’t sign them. What happens when she is out sick or on vacation? The office just shut down? If she can delegate responsibility to another clerk when on vacation why not do the same thing now. That way she doesn’t have to sign the form. From what I’ve read over the past few days US law tries to come up with a reasonable workaround that doesn’t burden either side of the dispute.
Of course she will still have to breath the same air that those gay folks were breathing and that might be a sin also.
Brachiator
@Luthe:
Russia is an odd case. Their economy is weakening, and they have a problem with a huge amount of out-migration of Russians who can not find opportunity at home. And yet there is also this:
And on top of this, “there are many asylum-seekers in Russia from Afghanistan, Angola, Ethiopia, Somalia, and growing numbers of refugees from eastern Ukraine.”
nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russia-the-worlds-second-largest-immigration-haven-11053
NorthLeft12
Betty, Thanks very much for the excellent post and the mention. It is interesting to read the comments on here and compare them to comments that I am hearing from Canadians.
Some of the doozies I have heard for why Canada is not doing more;
#1. “We can’t solve this problem by ourselves/too many refugees to settle in Canada.” This one was repeated by our sort of current Prime Minister Harper. As if all four million Syrian refugees want to come to Canada anyway. As if we can’t take 60,000 [we took over 70,000 Vietnamese boat people in the late 70s] refugees right now, and that won’t help. So far we have taken less than 2,000.
#2. “There are implanted ISIS/terrorists/war criminals among the refugees.” So this is a reason to let virtually no one in. Especially young families and seniors. This excuse has been used in 1956 with the Hungarians, in 1968 with the Czechs, in the late 70s with the Vietnamese, and in the 90s with refugees from the Balkans. Oh, and how many terrorists, etc. were in those groups of refugees? Yeah, that’s what I thought. In general, refugees have become outstanding citizens or they go back to their home country when things have quieted down.
#3. “They are too different and won’t adapt to our culture.” Canada is a country of immigrants [my apologies to the aboriginals] and every new group has generally enhanced what culture we have and made this a better country to live. What values that Canadians did treasure [generosity, compassion, inclusivity, compromise, and peaceful conciliation] have been attacked and betrayed by the current Conservative government of Mr. Harper, with the avid support of his base.
The Cons have recently changed the refugee quota rules so that private groups must commit to 60% of the financial burden of a family of four [roughly $C 27K] for the first year. Individuals are banding together through existing churches, social groups, and municipalities to raise this money and provide for more refugees, but are being stymied by the enforced rules on vetting of refugees.
I figure that any family saved from that hell is a positive, and my wife and I will do what we can to help. Wish I had the ability to do more than just donate $$$ and goods, but every bit will help.
Betty, thanks again for your thoughtful and heartfelt post.
Another Holocene Human
@Ken: MSF is legit but be warned, they will beg you for money for years afterwards and spam the fuck out of you. I would donate again if I could guarantee I wouldn’t suffer a repeat performance. Jerks.
Freemark
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Agreed. No blame should go to the visa holders. Whenever I see an employer representative state that ‘no Americans are available for these jobs’ I want to smack them hard. What they mean is no Americans are available to work for far below average pay, in poor working conditions, no workplace protections with the threat of being deported if they complain even a tiny amount. Giving them a green card eliminates or greatly reduces those issues so of course employers want H1-b visa not resident aliens.
Peale
@D58826: Yep. I’m concerned about that. Just like Texas refusing to issue birth certificates for immigrant babies. Now try to verify that a person was born or married…at least the married couple have a copy of something…of course, they’ll have to go through a process to prove that that something wasn’t forged since there is no record of it.
Gene108
@Freemark:
The H1-b program is an example of the isolationist wave sweeping the country.
College educated liberals have no problem with a “amnesty ” for Latino illegals. They seem to view it as the just thing to do.
But earnings in construction has seriously been hurt over the last twenty years because of competition from illegal immigrants, far more than any professionals earning power has been hurt by the H1-b program.
Yet you seem to be happy with idea of doing away with competition for college educated professionals the H1-b program presents.
Fine some folks ancestors came through Ellis Island, with a lot fewer hoops to jump through than people today and some probably got homestead land out West to boot, but now we just want to make it harder for Asians (folks that get the most H1-b’s) because it may crimp my earning prospects.
It is not only right-wingers, who are nativists. Bring up H1-b’s and college educated liberal professionals become just as bad, because it directly threatens them.
Also, the H1-b program and student visa program, along with Green Card quotas by country are incredible choke points in limiting immigration from Asia compared to the numbers that want to come here.
srv
@Brachiator: Courtesy bombing Syria is one good solution. I don’t know why people complain about McCain, at least he says there are magical moderate unicorn freedom fighters. Obama appears to be pursuing a policy that assumes they exist – or maybe not. Maybe threatening Assad, bombing ISIS and letting Erdogan bomb the Kurds… maybe he’s just embraced total nihilism.
Thankfully for Merkel, it looks like Putin isn’t willing to let her drown in a few million refugees without at least a fight. She probably doesn’t even appreciate the favor.
Brachiator
@srv:
Only idiots and Dick Cheney believe in bombing without some larger strategic objective. Nice try, though.
Gene108
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I keep hearing the assertion H1-b visas suppress wages in IT, but no one can quantify this even by anecdote.
In construction, for example, the damage in wages was quantifiable even if it was just by anecdote. For example, a person made $15/hr to hang dry wall in 1995. Today the same position is reported to pay $12/hr. The numbers are hypothetical, as I do not have exact numbers in front of me, but I have met people in trades who make less per hour than they did a generation ago.
So far the biggest complaint I have heard from folks in IT is their pay has not increased as fast as they wanted.
Unless someone has not kept their skills up, ie never stopped working with mainframes when demand COBOL, Fortran, etc has dried up, wages have not gone in reverse
Edit: You may only suffer through a 3% COLA raise you got, as opposed to the 10% raise you think you deserved.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Gene108:
Yeah, the “competition” that led to my college friend being sent back to Singapore because her US employer didn’t want to have to admit they were vastly underpaying her compared to her coworkers, so they declined to renew her visa. And no other newspaper was willing to hire her because now she was a troublemaker who brought up that nasty wage differential, so back she went.
If you can’t see that the current H1B visa program hurts the people who actually hold the visas and keeps them in indentured servitude with no path to citizenship, then I can’t help you.
srv
@Brachiator: Well, clearly, all those more bombs we’ve dropped this last month have quelled the refugee count. No? Or am I not thinking strategically enough?
airwars.org/
srv
LOL, from that site, which links to US mil reports:
Surgical strikes, man, surgical! Obama is amazing.
boatboy_srq
@Gene108: Immigration is a downward pressure on wages. Undocumented immigration is a significant downward pressure on blue-collar and manual labor wages, while documented immigration is a downward pressure on white-collar and management wages. The problem is not that certain employment sectors are targeted by different groups for isolationist reasons; the problem is that labor itself – outside the “entrepreneur” and “job-creator” sole-proprietorships whose businesses never need any external resources ever (/snark) – has been devalued, and that the current dialogue on all sides isn’t about restoring that value but only about preserving the value that remains. H1-B is an easier target because those harmed by it are more visible and more articulate. The biggest problem is that the same people who whinge about “takers”, “47%” etc etc are the first ones complaining about living wages etc., so there’s no traction available outside those Democrats who support making employment pay.
Calouste
@Gene108:
I’m a former H1-B in IT (now Green Card), and I make more than a member of Congress.
That’s of course just one point of anecdata.
H1-B is a dual-intent visa, i.e. visa holders are allowed to apply for permanent residency. One of the reforms that should happen is that employers whose H1-B holders apply for permanent residency under a certain percentage should be limited or barred from sponsoring visa in the future. And something else that should happen is enforcing the equal pay requirement that is already on the books.
Elie
@Omnes Omnibus:
..AND along with the US are the Saudis and other ME Sunni and Shia countries who have done nothing to keep these people in their own countries, and particularly in the instance of the Saudis, have plenty of money. They probably think its just fine to “get rid” of “problem” populations…
The world is a huge mess right now
gene108
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I was thinking about IT specifically, though H1-b’s cover a lot of occupations. I’m not sure about how wages in the newspaper business is going these days versus days gone by.
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Please quit throwing around terms. Indentured servants were people, who worked as slaves to pay off whatever their indenture holder felt was owed to them for bringing them to America. They could not change jobs. They could not quit and go back to their country of origin.
H1-b visas are about as close to indentured servitude as the various things the right-wing claims constitute slavery in the 21st century.
As I stated above, the problem faced by Asians today is that the country caps for Green Cards were set decades ago. Norway never comes close to using their Green Card quota for via family sponsorship or employment based sponsorship.
Mexico has a decades long back log for family sponsorship green cards.
India has a decade to fifteen year back log for employment based sponsorship.
The quick fix is for Congress to allow unused visas to be allocated to countries, which have a back log.
Five years after someone gets a Green Card they are eligible to become citizens. There is still a pathway to citizenship. That has not changed.
It is getting a Green Card that has become a nightmare and attempting to maintain status on an H1-b in the meantime has become far more difficult.
In Obama’s attempt to impress right-wingers that he would be tough on immigration, by deporting people here illegally, he made legal immigration tougher as well, which impacts how easily people in H1-b’s can change jobs, for example.
How do you propose allowing immigration from Asia? If not the H1-b program, then what should Asians have do to immigrate here?
gene108
@boatboy_srq:
Bullshit.
Graph of wage growth in Japan, which has remained relatively flat and Japan’s not a country flooded with immigrants.
There’s no way to say that people, who are immigrants automatically put downward pressure on wages and if there was not immigration wage pressure would not exist.
A lot of factors are in play.
@Calouste:
Has pay been going down from your perspective, in the IT sector over the last 20 years? Has it been stagnant?
People just seem to throw around the idea that H1-b’s have crippled earning in IT, but I do not see anything to back this up, even as anecdotes. It is just an assumption that immigrants will always work for less and thus drive down wages.
Isn’t one of the issues, with H1-b visa holders is a limited ability to change employers? Wouldn’t this make it harder to switch employers, as fewer employers would sponsor Green Cards?
boatboy_srq
@gene108:
I think you need to revisit your articles: there’s a distinct difference between “a” and “the”.
ETA: and unless you can point to specific instances where immigration exerts an upward pressure on wages then the converse is equally false. So bullshit on your bullshit.
Yellow Dog
@Felonius Monk: We should ship the Statue of Liberty to Germany.
JMV Pyro
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I don’t doubt her sincerity about him, I just think that trying to frame every single issue from Syrian refugees to Black Lives Matter around a political horserace is reductive. While i’m glad to hear that O’Malley is on the right side of the issue, what any of the presidential candidates think about it this far out is irrelevant.
For the record, I don’t even dislike O’Malley like you seem to think I do. I just think he occupies the same place that Bob Graham had in 2004: good on paper, won’t work out in practice due to a failure to grab onto any interest groups in the party coalition.
gene108
@boatboy_srq:
Never said there was upward pressure. I just contend downward pressure is not inherently caused by immigration or that immigration is a major contributing factor of downward pressure.
Brachiator
@boatboy_srq:
Yawn. So is having children. On the other hand, plagues and warfare create conditions where higher wages often have to be paid. Are you in favor of that?
We are also living in an age in which technological innovation allows for greater increases in GDP without increasing labor power and contribute to stagnating wages. Immigration might be the least of your problems.
boatboy_srq
@gene108: No, but you did misinterpret what I said as immigration actually depressing wages (not merely contributing to downward pressure), and being the only force that did that. Nice try.
@Brachiator: True; true; not really; true; and this relates to the question and to how labor is systematically devalued how, exactly?
Freemark
@Gene108: I’m not for isolationism, I’m against employers being unethical, greedy, an in general being assholes. Which is why I am against H1-b visas. What I am for is increasing of green cards. Right now if a H1-b visa gets fired they can be deported IMMEDIATELY. That gives a lot of power to the employer over the employee. I would say enough to easily intimidate an employee into not reporting even severe abuse by their employer.
The H1-b is also economically and culturally bad for America as it discourages H1-b employees from putting down roots here. Which is why we should be increasing green card immigration and eliminating H1-b’s. Why are you so pro-exploitation and anti-worker?
Were/are you a construction worker who was hurt by illegal immigration and now wants ‘college educated liberals’ to get theirs? Or do you just love CEOs and hate the middle-class in general? Or maybe you have something else in mind, if so please elaborate.