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You are here: Home / Gun Issues / Gun nuts / Open Thread: “Stuff Happens All the Time”

Open Thread: “Stuff Happens All the Time”

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ABC News:

Presidential Candidate Jeb Bush made an eyebrow-raising comment in the wake of the Oregon school massacre — saying “stuff happens” in response to a discussion about gun violence.

Bush called the shooting in Oregon “very sad,” but said he also had challenges that he faced during his tenure as governor of Florida.

“Look stuff happens, there’s always a crisis and the impulse is always to do something and it’s not always the right thing to do,” Bush said at the Conservative Leadership Project in Greenville, South Carolina, referring to taking away rights…

President Obama, speaking at the White House, said Bush’s remarks didn’t deserve a response after a question about them from ABC News’ Jonathan Karl.

“I don’t even think I have to react to that one,” he said. “I think the American people should hear that and make their own judgments based on the fact that every couple of months we have a mass shooting. And they can decide whether they consider that stuff happening.”…

Reader Interactions

238Comments

  2. 2.

    Elizabelle

    I feel like we’re approaching peak wingnut. All the events, crashing over like waves.

  3. 3.

    Gindy51

    He might as well have gone all the way to “shit happens” as that’s what he meant. Adding a shrug of his shoulders he’d match his evil brother for “don’t give a fuckism.”

  6. 6.

    Renie

    JEB? must really not want to be president. This kind of statement is just so stupid, I can’t believe anyone would say it publicly.

  7. 7.

    Elizabelle

    PBO said voters would have to be single issue voters if they wanted to see any changes in gun safety. Because that is what they are up against.

    Sounds like a good organizing principle to me.

  8. 8.

    Karen S.

    Didn’t one of the ghouls in Dubya’s crew (Cheney? Rumsfeld?) say something similar about “stuff” happening related to our misadventure in Iraq? I could be remembering that wrong, but what Jeb? said sounds eerily familiar.

  9. 9.

    benw

    “Look stuff happens, there’s always a crisis and the impulse is always to do something and it’s not always the right thing to do,

    that’s why I respected the Schiavo family’s right to privacy and let them make their own decisions,” continued Jeb, before falling over into a vat of pig shit and thrashing around wildly.

    …I may have made some of that up.

  12. 12.

    MazeDancer

    Most of the videos of the Stuff Happens – shades of Donald Rumsfeld – moment have terrible audio. This one is better, though, alas, it’s a confusing site with ads. But it’s the vid Jeb supporters tweeting to show how they believe it wasn’t a dumb remark.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/jeb-bush-stuff-response-gun-violence/story?id=34209380

    If you would like a video of nothing but great remarks, you want to play the President’s press conference from today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=8&v=rtkCfGa1Q1I

    Press conference starts around1:00 mark after Sec of Edu ceremony.

  13. 13.

    Jeffro

    @Gindy51: Jeb’s remark reminds me very much of W crawling around on the oval office for looking for those nonexistent weapons of mass destruction … And the time that Barbara bush commented that she saw no need to worry her beautiful mind about all those deaths in Iraq caused by her sons war … That is how these people are .

  14. 14.

    shell

    Yeah, a mass shooting happens every couple of months so why shoul d people feel any need to find a way to reduce the chance of it happening again? I mean thats just crazy!

    Fucking Bush. I love the sheer contempt in Obamas reaction.

    I thought it was just in contrast to Trumps constant bombast, but between Carson, Jeb, Rubio…etc. Its like theyre all under heavy sedation.

  15. 15.

    Gimlet

    http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/10/02/rush-limbaugh-the-people-that-are-shooting-up-s/205942

    RUSH LIMBAUGH: The shooters are always mentality disturbed or — they’re just — they have allegiances and loyalties to some of the oddest, most deranged famous organizations and people in the world.

    But they’re not mainstream, normal law-abiding Americans that crack, start showing up at schools and start shooting people. The people that are shooting up schools more than likely vote democrat when you get right down to it, if they vote.

  16. 16.

    Yatsuno

    @Gimlet: He’s still waiting for the official talking points. Especially after Jeb’s “clarification” was just as tone deaf.

  17. 17.

    Jeffro

    @shell: yeah there we were again with Carson saying no need for any sort of gun control because you can’t do anything about the crazies … Sure we could, Ben – we could take away every gun in this country and crazy people would have to resort to a baseball bat or their fists . People would still get killed but not 10,000 Americans a year . Maybe Republicans should be forced to think about that baseline and be asked how they would feel if it was their kid that just got plugged…every single time

  18. 18.

    Elizabelle

    @schrodinger’s cat: Taking away Planned Parenthood services strengthens families.

    That’s why I’m wondering about peak wingnut. All of their ideologies are coming unraveled, and badly enough people who aren’t paying attention are starting to see it.

    The pope shows up and makes a series of libtard speeches. Climate change. Inequality. The death penalty. He clarifies he does not stand with Kim Davis. Then, coup de grace, it turns out he personally set up a meeting with a gay couple he knows well — one is his former student. He’s met with them in Rome, previously.

    People are beyond sick of gun violence. At some point the numbness and routine is going to turn to rage, and we are getting there.

    The black president reminds me so much of a wise father. Picked up on that with his answers at presser today. Don’t look at the sparkle. Look at the substance. The American press needs the instruction.

    The GOP does not have anyone like that. Their leading presidential contenders are a reality TV star/real estate mogul and a retired neurosurgeon with a soothing voice that delivers startling words.

    Bernie is pulling in money and supporters, in small doses and large audiences. A lot of people want a populist. Throwing our lot in with Wall Street sure has not helped the middle class or employment prospects.

    We have a storm bearing down on us; the East Coast has dodged the worst this time, it seems. Yes, it’s hurricane season. But the fires in California came early, and the weather is strange.

    The leading candidate for House Speaker blurts out that the Benghazi committee is sheer politics to bring Hillary down. Make her “untrustable.”

    Bears are eating kayaks.

    Stuff really is happening. But for the kayaks, it’s going our way.

  20. 20.

    Haydnseek

    The only way significant gun control legislation will be enacted is if the top half-dozen republican donors and their families are gunned down in public in full view of security cameras. New laws will be passed so fucking fast that even the NRA will be rendered instantly irrelevant.

  21. 21.

    cmorenc

    So if Jeb! was head of the FAA when a major airliner crash occurred, his response would be “shit happens!”

  22. 22.

    RaflW

    I thought Obama was good at the presser today.

    Also, too, it has been a 30 year project to soak the gun culture into our country, it isn’t gonna turn overnight.

  24. 24.

    Gimlet

    @Jeffro:

    I guess there should be a reminder about St Ronnie and the needless disability of his Press Secretary Jim Brady after each of these incidents. And that his political party really didn’t love Ronnie or they would have said “Enough!!1!” instead of naming everything after him.

  25. 25.

    Germy Shoemangler

    @Gimlet:

    The people that are shooting up schools more than likely vote democrat when you get right down to it, if they vote.

    Except the Oregon shooter listed his online profile as a republican conservative.

    But Lush Rimbaugh, the most successful RW troll of all time, never lets facts get in the way of a good radio belch.

  28. 28.

    Sad_Dem

    But they’re not mainstream, normal law-abiding Americans that crack like the smiling crewcut Charles Joseph Whitman, U.S. Army veteran Wade Michael Page, tugboat crewman Scott Evans Dekraai, Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan, student Steven Kazmierczak, sheriff’s deputy Tyler Peterson, security guard James Oliver Huberty, or junior high school teacher Carl Robert Brown, all white American males.

  30. 30.

    Mustang Bobby

    I seriously wonder if Jeb really wants to be president and that he’s doing all of this because of family pressure or a half-assed attempt to restore the family name. When I see him on TV all the body language signals tell me he’s thinking “Who needs this shit?”

    I suppose I’d feel sorry for him but by going through with it makes him a shitheel. And I still haven’t forgiven him for Teri Schiavo.

  31. 31.

    PIGL

    @Haydnseek: that would be very, very far from the worst thing in the world but I do not think it would make the slightest difference to the NRA.

  33. 33.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    “Look stuff happens, there’s always a crisis and the impulse is always to do something and it’s not always the right thing to do” …

    This explains so much about his brother’s Hurricane Katrina response — Sure, there’s a crisis, but it’s not like we need to rush to *do* anything about it.

  34. 34.

    Gimlet

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    That was all changed right afterward by the Obama JD to make conservatives and the GOP look bad.

    If only the NSA were able to monitor public social websites instead of being restricted by the ACLU.

  35. 35.

    Baud

    I don’t have much occasion to compliment the GOP base, but the polls indicate that they’ve had the correct reaction to Jeb!

  37. 37.

    Elizabelle

    I want Jeb! to be in it to the end. Don’t want them settling on someone more electable. All that takes is someone our shiny object press can deem “moderate.”

  38. 38.

    Baud

    “Look stuff happens, there’s always a crisis and the impulse is always to do something and it’s not always the right thing to do,”

    And he’s not talking about how his brother handled 9/11.

  41. 41.

    shell

    @Mustang Bobby: I was just gonna say…his whole attitude is “all this campaigning and having to say stuff is just so darn hard. Cant you just make me President already?”

  43. 43.

    Germy Shoemangler

    A veteran who says he was carrying a concealed weapon on Oregon’s Umpqua Community College campus Thursday when 26-year-old Christopher Harper Mercer went on a murderous rampage, says he didn’t intervene because he knew police SWAT team members wouldn’t know him from the shooter.

  44. 44.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: Not really. It’s just that there even more awful people in the race and the GOP base gravitated to them.

  49. 49.

    Gimlet

    @ruemara:

    He’s a reactionary.

    Didn’t think about a scripted, nuanced response, or the context of previous shootings said what he thought was the right response.

    Don’t change your first answer on a test or you’ll be wrong most of the time. Right!?

  50. 50.

    gf120581

    @shell: I am seriously starting to think he’s intentionally trying to blow this. Like the rest of the Bush clan forced him to run to redeem the Bush name and in retaliation he’s doing as shitty a job as he can.

    I’m just trying to make sense of his actions. You have to try hard to be that out of it.

  51. 51.

    Haydnseek

    @PIGL: Ah, well, what the hell. Let’s throw in the bullet-riddled corpse of Wayne LaPierre while we’re at it. The rethugs will all die of old age before the remaining family members, not to mention the various vultures that these deaths attract, are done eating each others livers over the gold in their teeth.

  56. 56.

    beltane

    Maybe we are reading this the wrong way. For all we know, Bush’s tasteless comments may help him with the base.

  58. 58.

    Roger Moore

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    A veteran who says he was carrying a concealed weapon on Oregon’s Umpqua Community College campus Thursday when 26-year-old Christopher Harper Mercer went on a murderous rampage, says he didn’t intervene because he knew police SWAT team members wouldn’t know him from the shooter.

    He was probably right, too. If the shooter had come after him, he probably would have tried shooting back, but he was right not to go looking for the guy.

  62. 62.

    nominus

    Jesus, there are just so many ways to go with this bullshit:

    – tell that to Terry Schiavo’s family, you pretentious twatwaffle
    – 4 people die in Benghazi and we never hear the end of it, and wind up with neverending congressional committees. Just tell them that stuff happened.
    – maybe you should call your brother – you know, the one who kept us safe. Maybe he’ll know how to keep us safe.
    – if the shooter had been brown, muslim, and/or gay, the screeching calls for action would still be echoing weeks later. White guy? Nope, gee, if only there were something that could be done. Better pray harder I guess.

  63. 63.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @SteveinSC:

    I can’t wait until the Umpqua Truthers start flooding his inbox with accusations of “covering up” and being in on whatever conspiracy theory they manage to cook up.

    He’s gonna need some of Pogonip’s flea spray after laying down with all those dogs.

  64. 64.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @shell:

    I thought it was just in contrast to Trumps constant bombast, but between Carson, Jeb, Rubio…etc. Its like theyre all under heavy sedation.

    And Carly. Carly trotted out that hoary old cliché about “Instead of talking about new gun laws, why don’t we just enforce the ones we already haaaa-aave?” Whiny bitch.

  66. 66.

    Mike in NC

    @AxelFoley: Who has the harder job: Right to Rise Likes to Lie, or the poor stooge who has to come out a few hours after JEB! steps on his dick day after day to explain what he really meant to say?

    JEB! being a former rich prep school pothead, who’s at all surprised that he’d shrug off a mass shooting as just “shit happens”? Fucking scumbag.

  67. 67.

    kc

    I keep seeing this 294 mass shootings figure. I know we have way too many mass shootings, but that seems . . . high.

    How are they defining “mass shooting?”

  68. 68.

    jl

    @Yatsuno:

    ” Especially after Jeb’s “clarification” was just as tone deaf. ”

    Wow, Jeb? issued a clarification that did not make things worse for him? Progress!

  71. 71.

    kc

    @kc:

    Never mind, I just looked at the Globe article. “Four or more in a setting.”

    I guess you have shoot a whole shitload of people in a setting these days to get national media attention.

  72. 72.

    Ian

    How many more of these shootings can Republicans shrug off before we can laugh in their faces when they call themselves “Pro-Life”? I don’t doubt they’re anti-abortion, but calling themselves pro-life is just a sick joke when all they care about is conception to birth. After that, “Stuff happens”, I guess.

  73. 73.

    Morzer

    Seriously, folks, I really think we need to find a way to get Jeb! over the finish line for the GOP nomination, because he is such a piss-poor excuse for a human being and so unconvincing as a future president that even Zombie Eugene Debs would kick his well-padded rump from Anchorage to Austin.

  77. 77.

    Roger Moore

    @kc:

    How are they defining “mass shooting?”

    An event in which a single gunman, or a small group of associated gunmen, shoot at least 4 people in a single spree. That means it has to involve 4 victims, not necessarily 4 fatalities.

  78. 78.

    Ruckus

    @Roger Moore:
    So that gun he was carrying for protection, that was protection from….. what?

    He was smart enough not to use it but not smart enough not to carry it? Is that called balance?

  80. 80.

    Roger Moore

    @Ian:

    How many more of these shootings can Republicans shrug off before we can laugh in their faces when they call themselves “Pro-Life”?

    Before we laugh in their faces at them calling themselves pro-life? We can already do that. Before the press laughs in their faces? All of them, Katie.

  82. 82.

    Shakezula

    there’s always a crisis and the impulse is always to do something and it’s not always the right thing to do

    Says the man who regards George W. Bush as his adviser on Middle East issues. Yeeeehaaaaw!

  83. 83.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @kc:

    Reporters use it a little loosely, but it’s usually a minimum of 3 shot at one time. If you scroll through the front page to last night, Adam Silverberg posted an excerpt from a research study he was working on in the Army that defines a lot of the terms being thrown around.

  87. 87.

    gratuitous

    Okay, Jeb!, let’s not rush into anything. How many more gun massacres will it take before you can be bothered to think about it? Ten? We should have that by the end of the year. 25? Right about the time of the Iowa Causes. Or are you thinking more along the lines of never? I think never is about when you plan to start thinking about gun massacres in America. Am I right?

  88. 88.

    Gimlet

    How many guns does the average gunowner have?

    Is there a clue when someone amasses more than 10?

  89. 89.

    Roger Moore

    @Ruckus:

    So that gun he was carrying for protection, that was protection from….. what?

    I guess it was protection from somebody he could see, or maybe against incidents too small to require a SWAT team. Either that, or it’s protection against people disrespecting him.

    He was smart enough not to use it but not smart enough not to carry it? Is that called balance?

    It’s possible that he didn’t really think things through until he was actually faced with a real life situation. His opinion on the utility of concealed carry may change now.

  90. 90.

    Brachiator

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Did anyone see the first episode of Indian Summers, on Masterpiece? I has a review.

    I originally passed on it, but may go back to take a look. I think I may have seen a review in one of the UK online papers that was mixed at best. Thanks for your review.

  93. 93.

    WaterGirl

    @Elizabelle: Thanks! At that point I must have thought it was the president speaking about the shooting yesterday, which I had already seen.

  95. 95.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Germy Shoemangler: actually the sites I’ve been visiting are all asserting, while linking to Chuck C. Johnson or Jim Hoft or even worse sites that someone had hacked the shooter’s social media sites and changed all of his information to cover up that he was a liberal, Democrat, who hated Christians and was Muslim. I wish I was making this up…

  98. 98.

    gex

    “As President of the United States, I promise to continue to believe that repeated violent tragedies may befall us and that it is none of my damn business to do anything to try to prevent that.”

    Well, okay then. That’s a sales pitch. Not a good one, but a pitch nonetheless.

  99. 99.

    Elizabelle

    Did anyone else see there was a less than mass shooting in Las Vegas today? South of the airport, not terribly far.

    Happened about 7 this morning. John wrote he’d set his alarm for 4 am, so maybe he was at or en route to the airport.

    A family was left devastated Friday after a man attacked and killed his own neighbors. Among the dead is a young boy.

    Police were called to a home on Hardtack Circle, near I-215 and Warm Springs Road, around 7:10 a.m.

    A young girl had gone to a neighbor’s home to report her mother was shot, said Lt. Dan McGrath, LVMPD.

    When police arrived at the scene, they found a woman’s body in the doorway of one home and an unharmed small child. Two doors down, they eventually found the bodies of a man and boy.

    The man was the shooter.

    Another day in glam city.

    Would have made the news — or not — but big news day and only 3 dead. Including the little boy.

  101. 101.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Haydnseek: that’s pretty close to what led Reagan, as California governor, to sign gun control legislation in the 1960s. The Black Panthers decided they would go to the state capitol to observe the legislature. In accordance with the law at the time – in other words they were allowed to do so – they went carrying their rifles and shotguns, which were unarmed. When they got to the capitol a group of students was their on a field trip. Much concern and outrage ensued and the California legislature and Governor Reagan couldn’t move fast enough to enact gun control legislation.

  102. 102.

    gelfling545

    Don’t leave in there, Jeb?. Contact the families of victims & tell them in person that you personally do not give a rat’s scrawny tail about them or their loved ones or the next victims coming along any day now. I’m sure there are people who’d like to express their……appreciation….of your remarks personally.

  103. 103.

    Adam L Silverman

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Its not. Based on both Oregon statute and the Oregon Supreme Court’s rulings, it is legal to concealed carry at community colleges in Oregon.

  105. 105.

    bemused

    Jeb must be wondering how the hell his brother got away with saying callous, thoughtless shit and he can’t.

  106. 106.

    Elizabelle

    @Haydnseek: Actually, Congress CAN act real fast, when they perceive they, personally, are in danger.

    Recall that Rusty Weston shot up the Capitol building in 1998. Killed two Capitol policemen, and got very close to Tom DeLay’s office (one of the cops was assigned to DeLay’s protection unit). Shooter was a mentally ill white guy with a gun.

    The Capitol is harder to get into than an airport these days. It already had xray machines in place (one of the officers was killed there), but has been hardened since. Keep those legislators safe.

    I don’t begrudge that, inconvenient as it can be. You know Nancy Pelosi would be in constant danger. She’s a demon to rightwingers. I doubt they can name many other congresscritters.

  108. 108.

    Elizabelle

    @Thoughtful Today: I was wondering if Obama was pwning the media or rightwingers when he challenged them to look at gun deaths vs. terrorism over a ten year period.

    Leaves out 9/11, might scream the wingers. But look at that toll.

    87,000+ just since Sandy Hook. That’s beyond belief.

  109. 109.

    gelfling545

    I wonder how this will affect Jeb?’s already low poll numbers. Of course, some people will love it but I suspect that anyone who wants to lay claim to a shred of humanity will have to repudiate it.

  110. 110.

    elm

    The U.S. has had 294 mass shootings in the first 273 days of this year. This number is:

    a) Too high
    b) About right
    c) BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

    The U.S. overwhelmingly will choose answer (c).

  111. 111.

    Myiq2xu

    When I heard there was a fake controversy involving Jebbie I came here to check out the fauxrage. I would never vote for another Bush but only dishonest hacks would fail to print Jeb’s full quote in context.

    Buffoon Juice never disappoints.

  112. 112.

    patroclus

    Obama: “We believe our future can be made by us, not for us. You are the change you seek.”

    Jeb!: “Stuff happens. There’s an impulse to do something about it, but why bother?”

  113. 113.

    WaterGirl

    @Adam L Silverman: I am not jewish, and my name ends in something that is not “berger”, but people always seem to change it to that anyway. Maybe this slip up was as harmless as that.

    *which is not to say that it doesn’t get annoying at times. Sometimes I want to say: okay, look down at whatever piece of paper you’re working from, do you see a “G” anywhere in my name?

  115. 115.

    bemused

    @Morzer:

    There’s sure to be a group or several using Jeb saying “Stuff happens” in ads attacking his record and policies.

  118. 118.

    trollhattan

    @kc:
    IIUC it’s four or more shooting victims in a single incident, including the shooter if he/she is one of them. Need not be fatalities.

  121. 121.

    Calouste

    @Gimlet: There are around 300 million guns in private hands in the US, around 120 million households, and IIRC, about 1/3 of the households own guns. So we’re talking about 7.5 guns on average per household. Which is a pretty bonkers number.

  122. 122.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: Wait, there is a “G” in WaterGIrl. Good to know the people who make those phone calls don’t know my BJ nym, at least! That’s a comfort.

  124. 124.

    beltane

    @Elizabelle: Numbers like that would trigger an exodus of refugees anyplace else. Americans either don’t give a shit or they actively applaud this kind of thing. Maybe we deserve another Bush administration.

  126. 126.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @beltane: IIRC we have had a discussion here of whether Black people would have a viable claim for refugee status if they left.

  128. 128.

    WaterGirl

    @Omnes Omnibus: Sad, but true.

    On an unrelated note, did you ever see my answer to your question about the Suits actor? I couldn’t tell whether you hadn’t seen my answer or if you were offended by my choice…

  131. 131.

    Roger Moore

    @Elizabelle:

    You know Nancy Pelosi would be in constant danger. She’s a demon to rightwingers. I doubt they can name many other congresscritters.

    They can probably name their own, which makes enough potentially disgruntled constituents to make each and every one of them nervous.

  133. 133.

    SiubhanDuinne

    That was a smart thing Obama did, challenging the media to do a little research into comparative statistics between terrorism and gun violence. It doesn’t seem to matter how you slice it — since 9/11/01 (even including 9/11), or just the last decade, or just since the beginning of PBO’s presidency, or just since Sandy Hook, or just 2015 — gun deaths only, or all gun shootings — gun homicides only, or including gun accidents and suicides — every single chart and graph I’ve seen, the numbers are overwhelming.

    Imagine a President of the United States prodding the press to do their damned jobs.

  138. 138.

    Randy P

    @Myiq2xu:

    When I heard there was a fake controversy involving Jebbie I came here to check out the fauxrage. I would never vote for another Bush but only dishonest hacks would fail to print Jeb’s full quote in context.

    Jeb:

    “We’re in a difficult time in our country and I don’t think that more government is necessarily the answer to this,” he said. “I think we need to reconnect ourselves with everybody else. It’s just, it’s very sad to see. But I resist the notion — and I did, I had this, this challenge as governor, because we have, look, stuff happens, there’s always a crisis and the impulse is always to do something and it’s not necessarily the right thing to do.”

    There ya go, Sparky. Context. Now explain why that makes it better. Or “fake”. Or how it doesn’t contain the callousness we’re ascribing to the comment.

  140. 140.

    tsquared2001

    @patroclus: Christ, but isn’t that shit a stark difference.

    Jeb! could have had a Sister Souljah moment – talk up reforms that 90% of America agree with, differentiate his punk ass from the field & maybe, JUST maybe raise his shitty poll numbers all while doing the wink & nod game.

    But NO, he could not even be bothered. Jeb! is definitely the Fredo in the Bush Crime Family.

  144. 144.

    Elizabelle

    NBC just put up the graphic.

    3,046 dead to terrorism, most of those on September 11

    Over 150,000 dead to gun violence. Fifty times the terrorism toll.

    Incredible.

  145. 145.

    WaterGirl

    @Elizabelle: You know what the real beauty of the President asking the press to chart the two is? Benen’s figures are different from NBC’s figures and they are both different than the other chart I’ve seen today.

    It calls attention to the fact that we don’t even have an accurate count of gun deaths, which is totally ridiculous! And it’s congress that is standing in the way of that, which the President pointed out last night.

    edited

  146. 146.

    Calouste

    Stuff happens… in 2001, some idiot tried to light explosives in his shoes on a plane. No one was killed or even injured. 14 years later, we’re still taking off our shoes at the airport.
    Stuff happens… in 2006, there was a plot to blow up airplanes with certain kind of liquid explosives. No one was killed or even injured. 8 years later, we’re still limited in the amount of liquids we can carry on.
    Stuff happens… in 2009, an idiot tried to blow up an airplane with liquid explosives in his underwear. No one was killed and the idiot was the only one injured. 6 years later, we have to go through full body scans at the airport to board a plane.

    But hey, any reaction to incidents where people actually get killed is too much according to some people.

  147. 147.

    Emma

    @Mustang Bobby: You and me both. Realizing that the son of a sow was planning to force a confrontation between the Florida National Guard and the Pinellas police department just to have his grandstanding moment…. still makes me livid.

  148. 148.

    Randy P

    @Elizabelle: Wow. He did it. He started the conversation the NRA has managed to suppress after every shooting.

    Dare I say that having the media pick up on Obama’s challenge gives me hope for some actual change?

  149. 149.

    shell

    On another note:

    Tcm starts its Friday night Horror movies in October

    8pm-Two On A Guillotine

    10pm-House On Haunted Hill

    11:30pm- The Haunting (the best!)

  153. 153.

    Randy P

    @Myiq2xu: What, you want me to start with whatever he said while brushing his teeth that morning, and end with his last comments before going to bed? Or do I need a couple more days on either end to provide context?

    How much context do you need for your average sentence? How much context do you need for an average Obama quote? On, for instance, “you didn’t build that”?

  154. 154.

    WaterGirl

    @Omnes Omnibus: It was more style than looks that made me think of you, but I had better stop digging because that’s probably wrong, too. never mind, forget i said anything.

  157. 157.

    tsquared2001

    @Omnes Omnibus: I don’t know. There is not one living person I despise more than Dubya but while spitting, cursing his name and teaching ALL the kids to call him the worst president ever, I can recognize his political skills. Jeb! on the other hand; that guy is a fucking hump.

  162. 162.

    Roger Moore

    @WaterGirl:

    You know what the real beauty of the President asking the press to chart the two is? Benen’s figures are different from NBC’s figures and they are both different than the other chart I’ve seen today.

    I assume some of that is that they’re counting different deaths. Some of them appear to be including only homicides, while others are including suicides and accidents. The bigger point is that it doesn’t really matter one way or the other. No matter how you slice it, guns are killing so many people that deaths to terrorism is negligible in comparison every year but 2001. Even in 2001, the terrorist attacks weren’t even close to gun homicides.

  163. 163.

    A guy

    Would somebody please tell me what law they would like passed that will keep guns out of the hands of mental cases like the gay black dude who capped his former co-worker in Virginia!?!?

  164. 164.

    Elizabelle

    @WaterGirl: Yes. That’s true.

    He snarked at the press today about his press conference, talking about Putin, whose popularity might be stronger than his economy. He said the beltway could read polls.

  165. 165.

    Randy P

    @A guy: Nope. Can’t come up with one in twenty seconds on a random internet forum. Needs actual thought by actual people spending actual time crafting language to address this difficult problem. Reading the studies (which Congress has forbidden), talking to experts, etc.

    You don’t have any problem with the nation having that conversation, do you?

  166. 166.

    Jeffro

    @Elizabelle: you know I hate to be totally pie-in-the-sky and all that but imagine if Obama started every press conference for the next year and a half with those numbers (including updated totals of course )

  168. 168.

    Elizabelle

    @shell: Thank you. Looking forward to that, and it will be lovely to tune into some cinematic horror, rather than the post-latest mass shooting kabuki we’re treated to now.

    Never saw the Guillotine movie.

    The Haunting is amazing. TCM should do a Robert Wise week. Amazing breadth of movies directed.

  170. 170.

    Elizabelle

    @Jeffro: He is pissed. I hope he does. It would be deadly (literally) if people go back to business as usual, because there’s no follow up from our “both sides” press and politicians.

  171. 171.

    john fremont

    @SiubhanDuinne: Most of the gun laws on the books they’re always talking about are things like brandishing, unlawful discharge etc. Things that happen after the crime is committed. Those laws are enforced.Yeah right, like law enforcement officers and city attorneys are just gonna let charges like this go. Surrrre as I tell gun absolutists.

  172. 172.

    Elizabelle

    @A guy: For starters, the guy was in trouble at his workplace and escorted out. People found him threatening. His TV station had quite the paper trail on him.

    Perhaps that is info that should be investigated before handing out a gun.

  176. 176.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @A guy: Here’s a start, treat guns like cars. Mandatory training, license and insurance. There’s a start.

  177. 177.

    A guy

    Absent confiscating all the guns in America , u can’t stop what happened yesterday. There’s a price to pay for a free country.

  178. 178.

    Jeffro

    @A guy: how about a law that requires a reference from a family member or a friend your doctor and a coworker before you can get a gun – do you think that would slow down the mentally ill from grabbing a gun and blowing away people like this ? I do and it’s not infringing on peoples rights to have a gun at all .

  181. 181.

    ms_canadada

    @Omnes Omnibus: Hmmm…I wonder if our Canadian government would recognize them as such. If I were ‘King of the Forest’ I might say, “Yes, indeed!”

  184. 184.

    Roger Moore

    @john fremont:

    Most of the gun laws on the books they’re always talking about are things like brandishing, unlawful discharge etc. Things that happen after the crime is committed. Those laws are enforced.

    And the ones that are about keeping guns out of the wrong hands are not being enforced because the agencies in charge of enforcing them have been systematically deprived of resources. That’s part of the conservatives’ game plan. When they can’t repeal regulations they don’t like, they just gut the enforcement mechanisms and let people get away with breaking the law. It’s great for them because they can claim to be fiscally responsible and prove that government is incapable of accomplishing anything.

  185. 185.

    Elizabelle

    @Jeffro: And a bona fide tip line, straight to a dedicated department of police who keep up on fitness of gun owners.

    Fines for those making spurious reports.

    But if you find your coworker is being abused at her home, but no police have been called and no report has been filed, perhaps coworker’s partner should not have an arsenal at home too.

    We should pay more to peace officers to keep us safe, than pay up for emergency services, and postinjury rehab and reconstruction, and funeral and court costs …. Gun violence sucks up a lot of money, in addition to destroying lives and families.

    PS: on NBC Nightly News tonight: pics of a little 5 month old baby girl who has died by gun this week. I think she was 5 months … cute little darling.

  186. 186.

    ms_canadada

    @Brachiator: I think the ‘Jewel in the Crown’ was an excellent series. The books (The Raj Quartet) are better, but the TV series was quite a good adaptation, IMHO.

  187. 187.

    beltane

    @BillinGlendaleCA: No their freedom demands that other people die. It’s always someone else who must pay their price for their weird little thing, America’s new “peculiar institution.”

  188. 188.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @A guy:

    There’s a price to pay for a free country.

    What’s the advantage of being free if you’re dead?

    Do you see how stupid that argument is?

  189. 189.

    WaterGirl

    The weather here is kind of spooky tonight. I am used to the idea that a yellow cast in the sky can mean a tornado or a big storm, but tonight that cast is kind of pink, which is quite strange. Not the normal pink sunset kind of pink.

    Also, weather underground is telling me that we are having gusts of wind up to only 7 mph, but all my heavy plants are being knocked over.

  190. 190.

    Myiq2xu

    @Randy P:

    Here is the full quote:

    Q: Do you think the second amendment bestows individual rights or rights of a militia?

    BUSH I think it bestows individual rights and I think that’s what – and I think it needs to be protected. And the best place to sort these issues out is at the state level. The federal government tries to add these one size fits all rules. Look, South Carolina is different than New York City. In Florida, when I was governor, I was the NRA statesman of the year. It was on my highlight reel where Charlton Hesston gave me a gun on stage in front of 15,000 people. That was pretty cool to be honest with you. We have in Florida we believe that concealed weapons permits are a proper thing. We have 1.2 million concealed weapon holders, more than double the next state. We have right to carry, all sorts of rules that are appropriate for Florida, may not be appropriate for other places. But the basic right is embedded – I mean it’s a personal right, it’s an individual right to bear arms and that should be infringed by either local state or federal law for sure.

    The tendency when we have these tragedies that took place yesterday, it’s just heartbreaking to see these things, but this is the broader question of rulemaking — I think is an important point to make, that whenever you see a tragedy take place, the impulse in the political system, more often at the federal level, but also at the state level, is to do something, right? And what we end up doing lots of times is we create rules on the 99.999% of human activity that had nothing to do with the tragedy that forced the conversation about doing something. And we’re taking people’s rights away each time we do that and we’re not necessarily focusing on the real challenge. So if we have people that are just mentally ill to the point where they go into the vortex and they don’t come out and they’re hateful, and they’re in isolation, and they kill people, the impulse in Washington is, take personal rights away from the rest of us. And it won’t solve the problem of the tragedy that is just heartbreaking to see. Maybe we ought to be more connected to our communities. Maybe we ought to have greater awareness of the mental health challenges that exist all across this country. Maybe there’s a better way to deal with this than taking people’s human — personal liberty away every time we kind of require people to do something.”

    Q: And I remember right after Columbine – this is a long, long time ago, I was listening to the radio, they were talking about how schools are not allowed to have prayer vigils. You’re not allowed to pray, I should say, or have, you know, Christian or Jewish or whatever faith-based groups on these public education schools. But then the guy said, it’s funny, you send a guy in with an oozy or a handgun to shoot a bunch of people, the first thing they do, prayer vigil. Whatever the faith based group is, and he said you should do that on the front end, maybe you wouldn’t have those tragedies on the back end.

    BUSH: We’re in a difficult time in our country and I don’t think more government is necessarily the answer to this. I think we need to reconnect ourselves with everybody else. It’s very sad to see. But I resist the notion — and I had this challenge as governor, because we had — look, stuff happens, there’s always a crisis, and the impulse is always to do something, and it’s not necessarily the right thing to do.

  191. 191.

    beltane

    @Myiq2xu: Sorry, but Bush’s statement is far worse in long form. He can go suck Charlton Heston’s cold, dead peanut for all I care.

  192. 192.

    Myiq2xu

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    “Give me liberty or give me death!”

    “Live free or die.”

    “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

    Why do liberals hate liberty?

  194. 194.

    tsquared2001

    @A guy: I’ll play (mostly because I am in a MOOD).

    How about Virginia stops shall issue? How about stopping state preemption of local gun laws? How about a three day waiting period? How about more funding for mental health considerations?

    Is that enough, Fuckhead?

  195. 195.

    Thoughtful Today

    [sigh]

    Right-winger explains: The monstrous death toll that’s largely avoidable is ‘the price of freedom’.

    ….

    $+$+$+$ = ????

    Add to that price the monstrous health care costs the survivors now face.

    Don’t forget their trauma and PTSD counseling.

    Throw in the costs of the massive local, county, state, and federal investigation of … one lone wolf … because ‘guns’.

    [/double-face-palm]

  196. 196.

    Elizabelle

    Fresh thread.

    Still dedicated to Bush (and retainers) stupidity. It’s a renewable resource.

  197. 197.

    tazj

    Shortly after Sandy Hook, I overheard a conversation in my son’s Tae Kwon Do class. A class for 4-6 year-olds. The conversation was among gun enthusiast parents lamenting the fact that there might be new gun laws in New York. Their arguments against new laws were very similar to those used by Jeb Bush. Hey, stuff happens. People fall and slip on the ice or fall and slip in the bathtub and die. They believed just as many people were injured or killed by slip and falls as were injured by gun violence and nothing could be done. The media was overeating and they were not going to lose their guns.

    I couldn’t understand how people who had children the same age as those killed wouldn’t want some legislation that might cut down on gun violence in this country. I knew these people loved guns (which is fine to a point), but I thought they’d finally open their eyes.

    I suppose that since we’ve tolerated violence against other people’s kids for so long in this country, even after Sandy Hook some people still wouldn’t believe that violence could touch them.

    I’m going to bother my congressman, a Republican, about this. I bet he’ll claim that it’s a mental health problem. Well, that’s part of the problem. Where’s the legislation to address that?

  198. 198.

    C.V. Danes

    And to think, we’re trying to replace the entire driving community with robot cars for far less loss of human life.

    Personally, I find the thought of being gunned down at the local movie house more disturbing that being run over by someone in a car.

  201. 201.

    Roger Moore

    @C.V. Danes:

    And to think, we’re trying to replace the entire driving community with robot cars for far less loss of human life.

    That’s primarily for convenience, though; the potential for improvements in safety are just a nice byproduct.

  202. 202.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Myiq2xu:

    It’s interesting that most of the people who voted for or supported in principle the PATRIOT Act won’t even consider the tiniest eensiest itsiest legislation to stem the abuse of guns in this country.

    As for the quotes you cited? Aren’t you the context guy? These are all quotes from the 18th and first decade of the 19th century. Muskets and well-regulated militias are fucking CONTEXT, Skipper.

  203. 203.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Elizabelle:

    You should keep an eye out for Wise’s “The Body Snatcher” — he made it for Val Lewton and it’s still spooky as heck, with one of Boris Karloff’s all-time greatest performances. He uses music so well that it’s no surprise he ended up doing musicals.

  204. 204.

    Mike in NC

    Virginia had a common sense gun law for years, limiting purchases to one per month. The wingnuts were outraged because not being able to buy 50 guns a day is tyranny, and they got the Repubs to repeal the law.

  205. 205.

    PurpleGirl

    @WaterGirl: Thanks for the mention.

    As to this shooting and Jeb!’s comment: I have nothing to add. Just hanging and shaking my head in wonderment of it all. And sad, just sad.

  206. 206.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Myiq2xu:

    “Give me liberty or give me other people’s deaths!”

    Typical freeloading right-winger — you expect other people to pay for your liberties instead of paying for them yourself.

    (Edited to fix formatting)

  207. 207.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Myiq2xu:

    Maybe there’s a better way to deal with this than taking people’s human — personal liberty away every time we kind of require people to do something.”

    Holy shit. The asshole almost said gun ownership is a human right but caught himself at the last second.

    OMFG. He is one sick puppy.

  208. 208.

    MaxUtil

    God I love “pissed off Obama”. Since he seems to be a different person from the Obama we had for the first 5 years, can we let him be president for two terms too?

  209. 209.

    Randy P

    @Myiq2xu: OK, now that you’ve provided what even you consider sufficient context, can you address my questions?

    Now explain why that makes it better. Or “fake”. Or how it doesn’t contain the callousness we’re ascribing to the comment.

  210. 210.

    piratedan

    @Myiq2xu: and to think, he’s the guy that signed the pool fence regulatory law in response to pool drownings (from Wasserman-Schultz sponsored legislation) … I guess there is a response to stuff happens….maybe do a better job in prevention, whocouldanode?

  212. 212.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Randy P:

    As people pointed out in the new thread above, Jeb’s go-to personal liberty argument is pool fences. We shouldn’t make people fence their pools to prevent toddlers from accidentally drowning in them because FREEDOM!

    I didn’t think it was possible, but Jeb actually looks like even more of a callous asshole “in context.”

  213. 213.

    C.V. Danes

    @Myiq2xu:

    Why do liberals hate liberty?

    Many liberals have placed their lives on the line to protect it, unlike many of the armchair warriors on the conservative side of the aisle. Many have found themselves wrapped in body bags for their efforts, instead of strutting around wrapped in the flag. What’s your excuse?

  218. 218.

    sparrow

    @schrodinger’s cat: Ooh, I will check that out + your review. I took a peak and saw that you must be an English history buff? I am kind of an amateur, having read a whole lot of literature & biographies from the 18th & 19th centuries (or I should say, modern biographies of authors writing then). Did you by any chance see or review the trainwreck (historically speaking) that was the recent Poldark series?

  220. 220.

    benw

    @Adam L Silverman: all good then, chief. Feel free to make fun of my hypothetical appearance anytime!

    EDIT: oh man, I can’t believe I didn’t think to make a “didn’t want to get your nose out of joint” joke before posting this. Darn darn darny darn.

  221. 221.

    stinger

    @Elizabelle:

    Over 150,000 dead to gun violence. Fifty times the terrorism toll.

    I’ve been trying to think why this is acceptable to so many people. Maybe it’s that they think of “terrorists” as foreigners. Only Americans get to kill Americans…?

  222. 222.

    J R in WV

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I always thought sarcasm was the default assumption around this blog!! How can I be wrong about that?

    And John Ellis Bush? He is an animated lump of excrement that can walk around in a $10,000 suit, making it look ill-fitting, but can’t act like a human being. Just like his mother, and his brothers. His dad actually does a pretty good imitation of being a human being, and can sometimes actually seem like a good guy, but then the imitation breaks down and you realize he’s just the current senior Bush Family Crime Syndicate crime lord. Not quite human after all.

  223. 223.

    Chris

    @A guy:

    There’s a price to pay for a free country.

    And yet the rest of the free world somehow manages not to have this.

  224. 224.

    Debbie

    @shell:

    The Haunting is the most frightening movie I’ve ever seen! I saw it as a kid when it came out. I’ve rewatched it a couple times since then and I still have trouble sleeping afterwards. Even the book is creepy.

  228. 228.

    PaulW

    @A guy:

    the problem is, guy, innocent people are paying for that “freedom”. And it’s not freedom, it’s an obsessive love of firearms that can cause death and despair for thousands of us on a weekly basis.

  230. 230.

    PaulW

    @Myiq2xu:

    Liberals and moderates and a majority of Americans who happen to NOT own guns love liberty. Thing is, an excess of firearms does not guarantee liberty, it only enslaves the gun-worshiper to false idolatry.

  233. 233.

    mclaren

    @Debbie:

    The Haunting is the best horror movie ever made. And isn’t it amazing that they did it all without any special effects? Just camera angles, light and shadow, and some reaction shots.

    The only real competitor for the original 1963 film The Haunting is the 1973 film The Legend of Hell House.

  234. 234.

    mclaren

    @PaulW:

    No, Jeb is showing his power. He’s proving to everyone that it doesn’t matter how sociopathic or nakedly evil or crudely openly sadistic he appears, because his family’s wealth and power are going to ram him down the country’s throat regardless of how violently everyone recoils from the spectacle.

  235. 235.

    mclaren

    @Gimlet:

    Reich to Rise probably got his fourth reich to rise again and is now happily goose-stepping in his spiffy new black uniform with the death’s heads on the brim of the cap.

  236. 236.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @GoatBoy:

    Hey there Goat Boy! Howyadoinyaracistsackofshit? I see you have decided to head back over here once again to see if you can get some goats to fuck. You must miss the good ol’ days of sniffin PUMA tail and clowning around being a racist ass about Obama.

    Do me a favor and get hit by a train. :)

  237. 237.

    Matt McIrvin

    @C.V. Danes: Gun and car deaths actually occur at almost exactly the same rate in the US now. But car deaths are rapidly decreasing and gun deaths are slightly increasing (mostly because of increased suicides).

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