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You are here: Home / Gun Issues / Gun nuts / NRAgers Against Humanity

NRAgers Against Humanity

by Anne Laurie|  October 5, 20158:51 pm| 70 Comments

This post is in: Gun nuts, Proud to Be A Democrat, Republican Venality

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Reid starts new gun-control push, calls Republicans 'puppets' of NRA http://t.co/63ULNVRtH4 | Getty pic.twitter.com/pZtgWaQUTt

— POLITICO (@politico) October 5, 2015

Except, puppets don't have free will. I think there's another word when you take money for it. https://t.co/d0FEAm8S34

— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) October 5, 2015

Kudos to Senator Reid. From the Politico article:

Senate Democrats are gearing up for another gun-control push after the massacre at a community college in Roseburg, Ore., as the chamber’s top Democrat accused Republicans of being “puppets” of the influential National Rifle Association in obstructing action on guns. But as members of both parties pitch ideas for gun-control legislation, once again, there appear to be few areas of agreement between Democrats and Republicans.

Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said Monday that he is reaching out to other Democratic senators on moving background checks legislation – a tall order in the Senate, where just two years ago Republicans and red-state Democrats blocked a bill when the chamber was under Democratic control. On Monday, Senate Republicans again shrugged off the push from Democrats as political and not addressing the root cause of the country’s mass shooting affliction…

If “we don’t take action, we are equally responsible for innocent deaths as the sick individuals who plot and carry out these horrific measures,” Reid said Monday on the Senate floor. “One thing is clear: To pass background checks, we need Republicans to stop acting as puppets of the NRA.”…

On Monday, Reid leveled sharp criticism at the NRA, saying it was once a “moderate sportsman’s organization” but that “times have changed.”

“Now the NRA and its leadership are committed to a radical agenda that allows criminals and mentally ill Americans to access guns to commit these terrible acts,” Reid said. “Is this what the American people elected us to do? I think not.”…

"Our inaction is a political decision we're making," Obama says on gun violence. "I will politicize it."

— Jennifer Bendery (@jbendery) October 2, 2015

At what point do we start investigating the @NRA as an organization that supports providing guns to domestic terrorists? #UCCShooting

— Max Berger (@maxberger) October 1, 2015

I'll never forget when my then 3-y-o's teacher reassured us parents that her room "has a big closet, so they will all fit." Never.

— Katie Nelson (@katienelson) October 1, 2015

So when NRA types share this are they admitting that guns are a deadly addiction of very damaged people? pic.twitter.com/kClExU1Msk

— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) October 5, 2015

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Reader Interactions

70Comments

  1. 1.

    Corner Stone

    October 5, 2015 at 8:56 pm

    Any parent of a school aged child is terrified to hear what their child responds when you ask them what they do nowadays when they practice a “lock down drill”.
    Yes, it’s not tuck and cover under the desks for a nucular event but in the same vein it’s not only more believable that a shooting could happen, we see it all the damn time.

  2. 2.

    MomSense

    October 5, 2015 at 8:58 pm

    My son talked me through their lock down drill and I don’t know if the urge to cry or scream was stronger.

    How is this not terrorism? As a country we went to extraordinary lengths after 9-11 to make airports, federal buildings, etc secure but we let our children huddle in dark closets clutching their backpacks hoping the shooter doesn’t pick their classroom?

    Let’s make our congress choose between sensible regulation for weapons and spending serious money to secure our schools.

    Money or guns congress critters. Which one is more important to you?
    ETA stupid phone needed spelling fixes

  3. 3.

    Jebediah, RBG

    October 5, 2015 at 8:59 pm

    So glad to see some increased aggression in this.

  4. 4.

    Anoniminous

    October 5, 2015 at 8:59 pm

    Why do Liberals hate crazy people gunning down innocents?

    Will no one think of the guns?

  5. 5.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 5, 2015 at 9:02 pm

    @Corner Stone: Some crazy wingers think that these tragedies are false flag operations designed to take away their guns.

  6. 6.

    sparrow

    October 5, 2015 at 9:06 pm

    @MomSense: Sorry for shouting, but YES IT IS TERRORISM. This article made me think about this differently:

    How We All Miss the Point on School Shootings
    May 27, 201414 minute readby Mark Manson

    …And it works. Their killing sprees are specifically targeted to generate the most fear and uncertainty from the public, because the more fear and uncertainty they generate, the more attention they get. They then use all of the attention as a platform to promote themselves or whatever complaints they may have against society. It’s the Columbine formula. It works. And as Eric Harris pointed out in his journal, it’s not about the guns. It’s about the television. The films. The fame. The revolution.

    If this sounds like a familiar strategy, that’s because it is.
    Mass Shootings as Non-Political Terrorism

    http://markmanson.net/school-shootings

  7. 7.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 5, 2015 at 9:06 pm

    @efgoldman: I didn’t want to tar all the crazies with the same brush, hence the hedging.

  8. 8.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 5, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    First, nobody is proposing making guns illegal. Second, this analogy makes me crazy. It’s like saying it’s futile to set speed limits, since some people exceed them. And people still die in auto crashes, so why require seat belts? It basically says we can’t do a single thing because whatever that thing is won’t solve every problem.

  9. 9.

    dm

    October 5, 2015 at 9:09 pm

    Maybe the NRA should be required to allow open carry in their national headquarters.

  10. 10.

    Liberal With Attitude

    October 5, 2015 at 9:10 pm

    Finally, about fucking time.

  11. 11.

    MomSense

    October 5, 2015 at 9:10 pm

    @sparrow:

    And the gun nuts intimidate and threaten anyone who speaks out about our insane lack of commons sense gun regulations.

  12. 12.

    Heliopause

    October 5, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    Sorry for the OT, but please keep in mind that the Seahawk offensive line is catastrophically awful. If not the outright worst in the NFL then certainly one of the half dozen worst. Anything they accomplish offensively is with approximately zero help from the line.

  13. 13.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 5, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    You know that if, by some miracle of political will, we were able to enact a few mild pieces of legislation — background checks, waiting periods, training and insurance requirements — and then someone shot someone, the NRARWNJs would be all “Toldja it wouldn’t work, TOLDJA!!“

  14. 14.

    MomSense

    October 5, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    @sparrow:

    Just read the article. Wow. Will share with everyone I know.

  15. 15.

    charluckles

    October 5, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    I am proposing that. I might be willing to settle for less, but that’s what I am proposing.

    I grew up shooting guns. And my Granddads rifle is in the basement. But I am done. A good percentage of the people in this country who are most vocal about having guns have absolutely no business having them. Nor do they have a need for them. I am done.

  16. 16.

    PaulW

    October 5, 2015 at 9:18 pm

    Since the National Rifle Association doesn’t believe that safety regulations ever work, we should make it a requirement that ALL NRA members have their cars’ safety belts removed, their houses covered with lead paint, and all their food and medicines provided without FDA approval and lacking expiration dates.

  17. 17.

    Some guy

    October 5, 2015 at 9:21 pm

    The right of criminals and mentally unstable people to own guns shall not be abridged

    Make these fuckers own that.

  18. 18.

    RSA

    October 5, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    If we make guns illegal, then nobody will get shot anymore. That’s how we stopped everybody from doing drugs.

    NRA for legalizing meth? I could believe it. That is, we do still hold some drug makers and drug distributors responsible for how their products are used.

  19. 19.

    MazeDancer

    October 5, 2015 at 9:36 pm

    @charluckles:

    I grew up shooting guns. And my Granddads rifle is in the basement. But I am done.

    Wow. Congratulations. That’s a very big deal.

    Like when Ta-Nehisi Coates gave up watching football because of the brain injuries. Before he made the decision he wrestled with it, saying

    “For me, the hardest portion is living apart–destroying something that binds me to friends and family.

    Similar to having a heritage of guns, and while that heritage is not about anything but responsible use, still saying no more.

  20. 20.

    Pie Happens (opiejeanne)

    October 5, 2015 at 9:38 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: The asshat sheriff of Douglas county, Oregon where the latest mass murder took place (unless there was one today), said publicly that Sandy Hook was a hoax.

  21. 21.

    Pie Happens (opiejeanne)

    October 5, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    @Heliopause: Seattle’s ahead, 10-3 just before the half.

  22. 22.

    Schlemazel

    October 5, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    @charluckles:
    The guy I looked up to like a father taught me to shoot and introduced me to hunting and I loved it. The whole experience of being in the woods and stalking was enjoyable and I love the taste of game. I even became an NRA member because of the million dollar insurance policy they provided should I get shot while hunting. I dropped my membership in the mid 1970s because I could see them going nuts. I have not hunted in 15 years or more now. I blame those crazy fuckers for that. I am done too.

  23. 23.

    Jeffro

    October 5, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Exactly right. Walk them all the way through it: would they rather that there be no laws, that no one bother to apprehend people in the commission of something dangerous/deadly to another citizen or group of citizens (or even to themselves)? Of course not.

    I swear, I have never seen so many FOX News-viewing friends and family so suddenly engaged and informed on inner-city shootings – you’d almost think it was a ginned-up distraction or something. Bill O’Reilly’s statement last night was priceless: (paraphrased) “There is absolutely nothing that can be done public policy wise and no way to stop it.” Really, Bill?

  24. 24.

    Jeffro

    October 5, 2015 at 9:47 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: That’s their strategy with Iran (and everything else in the Middle East, too): any instability, killings, beheadings, bombings of anywhere ever, for time evermore, is because Obama, that’s why.

  25. 25.

    Debbie

    October 5, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    I say we go for broke and bring back the debate about what the Second Amendment really says. their heads will explode.

  26. 26.

    Mike in NC

    October 5, 2015 at 9:49 pm

    About 15 or so years ago I worked with someone who took a job as a computer programmer at the NRA HQ in Fairfax, VA. I’d have liked to land that gig if it meant I could have installed a virus in their network to wipe out all their databases.

  27. 27.

    Luthe

    October 5, 2015 at 9:49 pm

    I like this suggestion: treat gun-buying like getting an abortion.

  28. 28.

    Brachiator

    October 5, 2015 at 9:51 pm

    @Pie Happens (opiejeanne):

    The asshat sheriff of Douglas county, Oregon where the latest mass murder took place (unless there was one today), said publicly that Sandy Hook was a hoax.

    So…. The Oregon shooting was a hoax. No one was shot. Why is the sheriff of Douglas county wasting the public’s time by having a press conference about anything?

    This dope doesn’t understand how he aids and abets insanity.

  29. 29.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 5, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    @Jeffro:

    Yup. Also, too, climate change.

  30. 30.

    gene108

    October 5, 2015 at 9:56 pm

    The NRA are bunch of cuckservative prissy loser compromisers to gun grabbers; they are effectively the gun grabbers best friend.

    True gun rights supporters back groups that take a principled no compromise stand on gun rights, such as the Gun Owners of America or the Second Amendment Foundation.

  31. 31.

    Pie Happens (opiejeanne)

    October 5, 2015 at 10:11 pm

    @Brachiator: He’s one of those idiot Constitutional Sheriffs.

    This explains a lot: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/john-hanlin-gun-control-constitutional

    We are on the road to LA from Seattle, passed through Roseburg yesterday. In a gas station nearby, I spotted this sign: https://flic.kr/p/zsb883 No one thought to take this down, in a state where every flag is at half-mast.

  32. 32.

    Liberal With Attitude

    October 5, 2015 at 10:21 pm

    @Debbie:
    I keep seriously saying that.
    Shift them to a defense of the existence of a so-called “right” to own a gun.

    It’s a lot more fragile than people think, and the alternative , of a world like Australia, is a lot more appealing than people think.

  33. 33.

    mclaren

    October 5, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    RICO the NRA.
    Charge ’em under RICO statues and seize their assets.
    Every dime. Every car. Every bank account. Every building.
    Charge the NRA with aiding and abetting felony murder, charge ’em under the Racketeering Involved Corrupt Organization statutes.

  34. 34.

    lucslawyer

    October 5, 2015 at 10:35 pm

    The next time I see or hear a guns and cars argument I think I will ask “When was the last time you rode your gun to work or church?”.

  35. 35.

    satby

    October 5, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Read about your friend’s passing downstairs. So sorry to hear of your loss.

  36. 36.

    john b

    October 5, 2015 at 10:39 pm

    Re: Lockdown Drills
    “It’s time to stop rehearsing our deaths and start screaming.”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/rehearsing-for-death-a-pre-k-teacher-on-the-trouble-with-lockdown-drills/2014/10/28/4ab456ea-5eb2-11e4-9f3a-7e28799e0549_story.html

  37. 37.

    greennotGreen

    October 5, 2015 at 10:41 pm

    I have a friend who has several guns for hunting and target shooting. I just found out that due to a decades old drug conviction, he can’t legally own any guns. He just buys them at gun shows and from private parties. Until we get rid of the gun show exemption to background checks we have no chance of keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them.

    Of course, I don’t know why anyone would need a gun. We don’t live in Somalia, although I think the NRA would like to turn the U.S. into a failed state. Think of the gun sales!

  38. 38.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 5, 2015 at 10:51 pm

    @MomSense: Unfortunately they don’t want to spend money on either education or security. Or, rather, they want to divert the funding for education to the private sector through the charter school movement.

    And to be honest, if you take a few days and read through the comments threads on the most popular firearms sites, the comments threads are full of replies and responses that argue that public education is statist indoctrination of socialism intended to make your children pliant, compliant, and stupid.

  39. 39.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 5, 2015 at 10:51 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Including the recent Oregon shooters mother.

  40. 40.

    chopper

    October 5, 2015 at 10:56 pm

    “Puppets” makes it sound like they’re made out of actual solid matter as opposed to vapor.

  41. 41.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 5, 2015 at 10:58 pm

    @greennotGreen: Note how the loophole also removes whites from the constituency agitating for felon rights restoration, a giant scandal in this country.

  42. 42.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 5, 2015 at 11:08 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Unfortunately you know that, the commenters and front pagers here know this, but a lot of other folks have decided to believe their lying eyes and ears. They are utterly, completely convinced that everything is moving in that direction. That the US government is involved in some elaborate maskirovka (Soviet deception operation) that will eventually and ultimately result in such an attempt.

    The problem with even trying to have a dialogue, let alone a debate or discussion, on this topic is that for a very specific set of gun owners we’re using the same words to speak different languages. For the 2nd Amendment maximalists, sometimes referred to as absolutists, you’re either a maximalist or your suspect. Folks who have expressed interest in firearm ownership only interested in hunting are considered suspect and referred to as Fudds after Elmer Fudd. As I indicated in my response to MomSense – just spend a few days reading comments at some of the top firearms sites and you’ll see people actually engaging with the published/posted material; a lot of commenters responding to complete misreadings of the published/posted material; and then a lot of folks going on and on about the need for/upcoming revolution.

    For these folks its always the No True Scotsman phenomena. They are frustrated, they are in some cases angry, they get far too much of their information about what is going on in the world from far to few and often unreliable outlets, and they are not interested in engaging with anyone in good faith. You’re either with them or you’re an “anti”.

    As I indicated in some comments last week to another post, I accidentally (as in I didn’t write the publisher of the site intending to do so) did a guest post at one of the top firearms sites about a month ago. And because it wasn’t intended, the standard bio I use wasn’t included. The comments thread was an interesting case study in the sociology, homology, and shared ideation of a subculture. Some engaged with my post in good faith. Some responded to what they wanted to read into what I wrote that I hadn’t. Others just quickly descended into the discussion about when the revolution might/should occur and who would actually lead it. All I was pointing out was: 1) the US Holocaust Museum does actually have exhibits dealing with armed resistance during WW II; 2) that the German firearms laws, which were actually passed during the Weimar Republic, are actually more ambiguous than often referred to; 3) that the reality of Jewish German life – in population numbers and social/political dynamics – in conjunction with what the NAZIs wanted to do (Kristallnacht, party member control, disinformation campaigns, etc) and did do did not lend itself to any reasonable analysis that Jewish German armed resistance in 1939 and 1940 would’ve actually made any real difference; 4) that there was both formal state and informal non-state resistance, but much of it came after 1942 and was largely ineffective; and therefore 5) trying to draw any real comparative lessons between this experience and the US or the 2nd Amendment is really not a very productive effort.

    Same words, different languages. No acceptable middle ground or areas for compromise.

  43. 43.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 5, 2015 at 11:16 pm

    @PaulW: What’s happened is that the NRA is routinely panned for being proactively involved for attempting to shape earlier forms of firearm related regulation. This is reinforced by the disdain that many still have for Smith and Wesson, which also attempted to proactively engage with regulations/legislation developed under the Clinton Administration. The integral locks that have been added to Smith and Wesson revolvers are referred to, and not affectionately, as Hillary Holes and there are many commenters on firearms sites who assert that they will only buy S&W revolvers that were manufactured before the integral locks were designed into them. Some make this argument because they believe that the locks can fail, which would be a safety issue (you have a revolver because you hike, fish, as a back up for hunting, you have to draw it for self defense from an aggressive wild animal, the lock causes the firearm to fail when needed – I have no idea if this has actually happened). Others because they think that S&W actually cut a deal with the (hated) Clintons to include the locks.

    The result of all of this, combined with the even more strident Gun Owners of America and National Association for Gun Rights, and the appearing to be more effective Second Amendment Foundation, is what is partially keeping the NRA where it is. The other factor, of course, was the purge in the mid 70s that led to the takeover of the NRA board by 2nd Amendment maximalists.

  44. 44.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 5, 2015 at 11:24 pm

    @Debbie: It won’t. Gun owners that are 2nd Amendment maximalists have a very specific understanding of the 2nd Amendment and its political, judicial/juridicial, and Constitutional history. While some of the understanding is in common, so to speak, with non maximalists, as well as simply mainstream political, judicial, and Constitutional historians – gun control as a method for controlling African Americans – most of it is framed in a way to support the current Constitutional interpretation by the Supreme Court in Heller that there is an explicit individual right to keep and bear arms for self defense.

    The Heller decision does, however, continue and maintain the language that reasonable regulations at the Federal, state, and local levels are permitted. This is the source of much consternation and heartburn for the maximalists who’s argument is that “shall not be infringed” is the controlling portion of the 2nd Amendment against any form of regulation – reasonable or otherwise.

    I highly recommend Winkler’s GunFight for a proper treatment of all of this:
    http://www.amazon.com/Gunfight-Battle-Over-Right-America/dp/0393345831

  45. 45.

    Steve from Antioch

    October 5, 2015 at 11:26 pm

    Meanwhile, back in the real world:

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/understanding-the-countrys-choice-on-guns

  46. 46.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 5, 2015 at 11:35 pm

    @greennotGreen: In this case, unless your friend had his full civil rights restored post punishment, which is unlikely, he’s already committing a felony – at both the state and Federal level – for each firearm he purchases this way. While I agree that having a universal background check to cover even private party sales would prevent him from doing this legally, my guess is that he knows what he’s doing is illegal and if it became impossible for him to make these purchases from private parties – whether at a gun show or through online/other advertising – he’d just buy from actual criminals.

    One note on background checks and gun shows: firearms purchased from actual gun dealers, as in those that have a Federal Firearm’s License (FFL) who are exhibiting and selling at gun shows are required by Federal law as a condition of their FFLs to do background checks on all purchases. These are called commercial sales. Additionally 21 states (it may have changed by a couple recently) require, in one form or another, background checks for private sales whether at gun shows or at other venue. These are considered private, and therefore non-commercial sales and are permitted in the remainder of the states. Yes, this creates a patchwork that can be exploited.

  47. 47.

    cckids

    October 5, 2015 at 11:54 pm

    @sparrow: I saw that today; he makes very good points about what is motivating some of these murderers. I also read this

    More interesting to this essay are other countries I’ve been to regularly: The Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, and Switzerland. Canada is notably similar in that there are a lot of guns, but not much gun violence compared to the U.S. Almost every grown man in Switzerland has an assault rifle issued by the military. They have gun festivals with shooting competitions for the kids.
    All these countries also take care of their citizens. You can go to school, see a doctor, or take a year off work and have a baby without worrying about losing your home or other financial catastrophes. Taxes are high, of course. Gotta pay for that stuff. Canada is closer on the scale to the U.S.: lower taxes and less social spending than most of northern Europe, but more than the U.S.

    When millions of people live close to the bone in a country that doesn’t seem to care about them, and the most effective weapons in the world are widely available, it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to paint the resulting picture. . . .
    Americans have a constitutional right to bear arms. Elected officials have a directive to ensure public safety. Humans have a responsibility to take care of each other. We’re not all keeping our end of the bargain. I think socialism and the second amendment ought to meet and work things out.

    There isn’t any easy answer; of course, it isn’t just guns, it’s not just mental health.

  48. 48.

    Anne Laurie

    October 5, 2015 at 11:59 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Just in case you check back here — I’d love your opinion on Dan Baum’s Gun Guys: A Road Trip.

    I first read Baum’s work as a long excerpt in Harpers, and couldn’t wait to get the book. Wanted to do a Balloon-Juice “book club” and share it, but the commentors who noticed my suggestion were… not impressed by my proposal.

  49. 49.

    redshirt

    October 6, 2015 at 12:14 am

    Pavlov programmed to vote R because of some nebulous fear
    THEY’RE GONNA TAKE OUR GUNS
    and so they go along with with whatever tripe the Repubs
    offer up as chum to the voting public when they need votes.

    It’s brainwashing on a societal scale. Quite impressive.

  50. 50.

    mclaren

    October 6, 2015 at 1:31 am

    @greennotGreen:

    Until we get rid of the gun show exemption to background checks we have no chance of keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them.

    I go to gun shows every few years because they offer a valuable MRI into the foetid id of the far right.

    You can buy anything at a gun show. And no registration required. Astrolite explosive? You got it. Thermite? They sell it by the pound. Books on how to brew up ricin or sarin or plastic explosives? They’ve got bookshelves full of ’em. Russian army sniper rifles? No problemo, how many clips do you want? 50 cal. sniper rifles that can take down a tank? Sure, do you want tungsten armor-piercing ammo with that?

    Frankly, I’m amazed that the mass shootings have been so mild. The sheer amount and deadliness of the military-grade weaponry out there for sale to anyone with cash at a gun show is mind-boggling.

  51. 51.

    boatboy_srq

    October 6, 2015 at 2:29 am

    I love the NRA MyFaceLinkGram-ready splash. If we treated drugs like we treat guns then Nancy’s big push would have been Just Say Yes.

  52. 52.

    boatboy_srq

    October 6, 2015 at 2:33 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: And naturally that’s because FascoSoshulists are just as amoral as they are.

    /snark.

  53. 53.

    boatboy_srq

    October 6, 2015 at 2:35 am

    @mclaren:

    Frankly, I’m amazed that the mass shootings have been so mild. The sheer amount and deadliness of the military-grade weaponry out there for sale to anyone with cash at a gun show is mind-boggling.

    Either the market for all the heavy gear is smaller than it appears, or the mass shooters are the bottom of the wingnut barrel and society is facing the drainplug. I can’t decide which.

  54. 54.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 6, 2015 at 2:44 am

    @Anne Laurie: I haven’t read either. I’ll see if I can find the Harpers’ piece without running into their firewall.

  55. 55.

    Hank Linderman

    October 6, 2015 at 3:11 am

    I’ve been proposing Responsible Gun Ownership – LICENSING for gun owners, REGISTRATION of all guns, mandatory liability INSURANCE for all gun owners, PERMIT required for ammo purchases (or for making your own ammo). Also, a ten year ban for those convicted of assault or domestic abuse, closing gun show loopholes, felony charges for possession of high capacity magazines.

    It would be a start.

  56. 56.

    A guy

    October 6, 2015 at 7:15 am

    Hank none of your proposed solutions will prevent what happened. Fact is we have a free society, and part of living in a free society is that things like Oregon may happen. Sorry but that’s the way it is

  57. 57.

    C.V. Danes

    October 6, 2015 at 7:27 am

    @A guy: With all due respect, living in a free society doesn’t mean living in a stupid society. When the government decides to lift the speed limits for cars, which are NOT designed to kill, then you can have your argument for no limits on guns, which ARE.

  58. 58.

    Josie

    October 6, 2015 at 9:04 am

    @A guy: That is a poor argument that we hear all too often. A particular law may not prevent a particular event. Passing the group of laws that Hank lists, however, would go a long way towards creating a climate in which responsible owning, buying, selling and using guns would be more recognized. We have to start somewhere, and those are good first steps toward sanity.

  59. 59.

    C.V. Danes

    October 6, 2015 at 9:23 am

    @Josie: Exactly.

  60. 60.

    lowercase steve

    October 6, 2015 at 9:46 am

    @A guy:

    Translation: “I don’t understand statistics and probability.”

  61. 61.

    The Moar You Know

    October 6, 2015 at 11:19 am

    Like when Ta-Nehisi Coates gave up watching football because of the brain injuries.

    @MazeDancer: Didn’t know he’d done that. For me, it was the day they signed Michael Vick after his release from prison for dog torture and murder.

    Good for Coates. It’s a hard thing to do. The Sportsball thing is a big deal in our society, especially socially.

  62. 62.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    October 6, 2015 at 11:22 am

    I’ve been proposing Responsible Gun Ownership – LICENSING for gun owners, REGISTRATION of all guns, mandatory liability INSURANCE for all gun owners, PERMIT required for ammo purchases (or for making your own ammo). Also, a ten year ban for those convicted of assault or domestic abuse, closing gun show loopholes, felony charges for possession of high capacity magazines.

    @Hank Linderman: I’ve been proposing the same thing for years as well. Basically nothing more than we insist upon to drive a car. Won’t solve them all but it would solve most of them.

  63. 63.

    A guy

    October 6, 2015 at 11:59 am

    What would registering all guns done to have prevented Oregon? Or Insurance? Or a permit for ammo. Nothing. Nothing other than make it a bit more cumbersome for the millions of us who own or collect guns. With 300 million guns in this country nothing other than a ban and confiscation of every weapon will be effective. And I guarantee that the government doesn’t want to go there.

  64. 64.

    Donalbain

    October 6, 2015 at 12:14 pm

    @C.V. Danes:

    No. You don’t live in a free society. You live in a society where you are held hostage by a right wing gun lobby.

  65. 65.

    Bill

    October 6, 2015 at 1:05 pm

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: All of this. Plus, repeal gun manufacturer immunity. Unleashing the plaintiff’s bar on these a-holes will have an effect.

  66. 66.

    Bill

    October 6, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    @Liberal With Attitude: I get the frustration we all feel about guns. But we need to abandon the idea that the “well regulated militia” language in the 2nd amendment is going to save us. The 2nd amendment means whatever the Supreme Court says it means. in Heller the court clearly said gun ownership is an individual right.

    We need to focus on Scalia’s statement in Heller that the right can be regulated.

    Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment , nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.26

    We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.” See 4 Blackstone 148–149 (1769); 3 B. Wilson, Works of the Honourable James Wilson 79 (1804); J. Dunlap, The New-York Justice 8 (1815); C. Humphreys, A Compendium of the Common Law in Force in Kentucky 482 (1822); 1 W. Russell, A Treatise on Crimes and Indictable Misdemeanors 271–272 (1831); H. Stephen, Summary of the Criminal Law 48 (1840); E. Lewis, An Abridgment of the Criminal Law of the United States 64 (1847); F. Wharton, A Treatise on the Criminal Law of the United States 726 (1852). See also State v. Langford, 10 N. C. 381, 383–384 (1824); O’Neill v. State, 16Ala. 65, 67 (1849); English v. State, 35Tex. 473, 476 (1871); State v. Lanier, 71 N. C. 288, 289 (1874).

    It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment ’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.

  67. 67.

    EBT

    October 6, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    At this point guns are an attractive nuisance.

  68. 68.

    A guy

    October 6, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    Where do you guys get your law degree? If I take my car, a dangerous instrumentality, and intentionally run over somebody, the manufacturer is not liable.

  69. 69.

    Thoughtful Today

    October 6, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    …

    It’s wonderful when right-wingers accept the licensing and insurance required to own and operate cars is the same licensing and insurance they will accept for guns.

    /sarcasm

  70. 70.

    pdoggeth

    October 7, 2015 at 2:54 am

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Hi Adam

    Were you the guy who posted that at The Truth About Guns website? I do commend you for that, but those guys there are definitely not very sympathetic to anything that may go against their worldview about gun ownership. Robert Farago, owner of the site, constantly has blog entries with titles of “this is what happens to a disarmed society”.

    You probably would have had a much better time sparking debate and actual dialogue if you went to the liberal gun club forum.

    I too recommend Gun Guys by Dan Baum. Actually I recommend it for all readers of Balloon Juice. Not all gun owners are like Nugent, and there’s a fair percentage that are moderate and *gasp* liberal (like me)

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