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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

The arc of the moral universe doesn’t bend itself. it’s up to us.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Somebody needs to explain to DeSantis that nobody needs to do anything to make him look bad.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

Everyone is in a bubble, but some bubbles model reality far better than others!

He really is that stupid.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Tuesday (?) Morning Open Thread

Tuesday (?) Morning Open Thread

by Betty Cracker|  October 6, 20159:29 am| 140 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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I’m on vacation, and I think it’s Tuesday. It’s lovely here:

  

That’s all I have to say about that. Open thread!

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Previous Post: « Late Night PopCult Weirdness Open Thread
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Reader Interactions

140Comments

  1. 1.

    Elizabelle

    October 6, 2015 at 9:31 am

    Finally, some sparkling weather. You were overdue for it.

  2. 2.

    Amir Khalid

    October 6, 2015 at 9:34 am

    On the subject of the weather in Malaysia, I’d like to quote Bob Dylan:

    How many times must a man look up
    Before he can see the sky?

  3. 3.

    carolinadave

    October 6, 2015 at 9:35 am

    Fontana Lake?

  4. 4.

    Jerry

    October 6, 2015 at 9:38 am

    Lake Lure?

  5. 5.

    Jeffro

    October 6, 2015 at 9:38 am

    Man, how much of a jerk do you have to be to get Vanilla Jon (Huntsman) to slam you on Twitter???

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jon-huntsman-jason-chaffetz

    Oh waiter? Waiter? I could use a popcorn refill please. Thx.

  6. 6.

    dedc79

    October 6, 2015 at 9:40 am

    Michael Gerson is terrified that President Obama and Donald Trump are out to destroy our democracy:

    The spirit of our democracy is very much at issue. Donald Trump says we have a corrupt system run by stupid people. Obama says we have a corrupt system run by evil people. Both of them are part of the same problem. I really don’t give a damn if they are disillusioned and fed up with democratic processes or not. If they are tired of the game, they should stop playing it, not engage in ideological commentary or entertain fantasies of personal rule.

    I wouldn’t blame you for refusing to click over. That’s not even the worst paragraph in the column.

  7. 7.

    geg6

    October 6, 2015 at 9:41 am

    You are not in Florida, are you, Betty? No way that’s Florida.

    Looks more like somewhere in my neck of the woods. The hills look very rolling, Western PA-ish. But I’m sure you’re not here. Where are you?

  8. 8.

    MattF

    October 6, 2015 at 9:42 am

    @Jeffro: Uh, gosh. Chaffetz was Huntsman’s campaign manager in 2004 and then his Chief of Staff. I detect some long-term animosity in this situation.

  9. 9.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 6, 2015 at 9:43 am

    That is beautiful! Kick back and drink colored drinks with little umbrellas starting at lunch.

  10. 10.

    Cervantes

    October 6, 2015 at 9:44 am

    @MattF:

    He endorsed Romney over Huntsman.

  11. 11.

    MattF

    October 6, 2015 at 9:44 am

    @dedc79: And Gerson is the ‘reasonable’ one among the WaPo’s half-dozen right-wing columnists.

  12. 12.

    NotMax

    October 6, 2015 at 9:45 am

    and I think it’s Tuesday

    Ah, but is it Belgium?

    ;)

  13. 13.

    Jeffro

    October 6, 2015 at 9:49 am

    @MattF: Once in a great while, Gerson writes something really fantastic, usually about science/space. (George Will did this recently as well, which was most likely the first, last, and only time I will EVER push a Will column on my kids). Outside of those lofty topics, though, he can be quite Brooksian.

    He must have been overdue for a hit piece, or a both-sides-do-it piece at a minimum.

  14. 14.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 6, 2015 at 9:49 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: Why wait? It’s vacation.

  15. 15.

    NotMax

    October 6, 2015 at 10:02 am

    @Amir Khalid

    Should Purple Haze become the new national anthem, please let us know.

    :)

  16. 16.

    catclub

    October 6, 2015 at 10:08 am

    I was reminded of Chalet Club in western NC, up the hill from the lake.

  17. 17.

    shell

    October 6, 2015 at 10:16 am

    With the reporting of that horrible sinking of that container ship in the hurricane, why do all the news outlets now have to say “it disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle” As if to cue the spooky music.

  18. 18.

    PurpleGirl

    October 6, 2015 at 10:17 am

    @NotMax: LOL. Brilliant comment.

  19. 19.

    Redshift

    October 6, 2015 at 10:25 am

    @dedc79: I have to assume it was the Obama inside his head who said “we have a corrupt system run by evil people,” since the Obama here in the real world never has.

    If his point is that people who don’t believe in government shouldn’t be a part of it, I’d agree, but he’s doing so much projection he should open a movie theater.

  20. 20.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 6, 2015 at 10:28 am

    @Redshift:

    If his point is that people who don’t believe in government shouldn’t be a part of it,

    I would change that to “People who don’t believe in gov’t should try getting along with out it.”

  21. 21.

    dedc79

    October 6, 2015 at 10:28 am

    @Redshift: Yeah, the the whole article is premised on things Obama has never said/done, but which the right wing attributes to him anyway. I’ve seen the claim show up in enough venues and through enough different mouthpieces that I think it’s some kind of coordinated Republican messaging – the President doesn’t believe in deliberation or debate, he just acts.

  22. 22.

    Eric U.

    October 6, 2015 at 10:28 am

    @geg6: Betty said she was headed to the Smokies, IIRC

    @OzarkHillbilly: they are working on destroying government, and since it’s a lot easier to do that than it is to make government run right, it’s working for them. I want them all to move to Somalia

  23. 23.

    catclub

    October 6, 2015 at 10:28 am

    @Redshift:

    since the Obama here in the real world never has.

    There are a LOT of people who know what Obama is thinking, and are willing to tell us. Kind of like Bill Frist the tele-doctor.

  24. 24.

    Dolly Llama

    October 6, 2015 at 10:29 am

    Lake Rabun? Lake Burton?

  25. 25.

    catclub

    October 6, 2015 at 10:30 am

    @Jerry: Goat Run on Lake Swillery?

  26. 26.

    Germy Shoemangler

    October 6, 2015 at 10:31 am

    Here’s an anecdote from my life: Once a month I visit our local credit union to deposit some $. It’s not our credit union, but they’re in the same network. I fill out a special form, and they deposit it to the correct credit union account, and I get a printed receipt showing our balance.

    There are two nice lady tellers who conduct the transaction, and hand me my receipt. But there is one young man who works there (he seems to only be there in the late morning or early afternoon) who doesn’t give me a receipt. When I asked him for a printout he insisted it can’t be done because it’s a different credit union. When I politely asked for one, he went “tsk!” and wrote out the balance by hand on a piece of paper.

    I find myself going there very early (like between 9:00 and 10:00) because I know if I show up any later than that I might encounter that guy. And then I’ll have to say to the person behind me “you go ahead” if I’m next up for his window, so I can get one of the competent ladies…

    Why can’t people learn how to do their jobs? And has anyone else encountered people who don’t know how to do their jobs, but cover themselves by insisting it’s impossible?

  27. 27.

    catclub

    October 6, 2015 at 10:31 am

    @Dolly Llama: Betty C seems to have posted, and then gone fishing, or boating, or leaf peeping.

  28. 28.

    Germy Shoemangler

    October 6, 2015 at 10:32 am

    @catclub: Posts shoots and leaves?

  29. 29.

    WereBear

    October 6, 2015 at 10:34 am

    @Germy Shoemangler: Why can’t people learn how to do their jobs? And has anyone else encountered people who don’t know how to do their jobs, but cover themselves by insisting it’s impossible?

    Constantly.

  30. 30.

    raven

    October 6, 2015 at 10:35 am

    @Dolly Llama: Been to GTP today?

    eta, Well, I guess you have!!!!!!

  31. 31.

    Roger Moore

    October 6, 2015 at 10:36 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I would change that to “People who don’t believe in gov’t should try getting along with out it.”

    Only if it’s in the form of them moving someplace without. I don’t want them trying that by destroying the government we already have, TYVM.

  32. 32.

    Germy Shoemangler

    October 6, 2015 at 10:36 am

    @WereBear: And I find myself worrying that I’ll get him in trouble! Because if I insist, and his co-workers or boss hears…

    It’s the arrogance that bugs me. Trying to bullshit me that “it can’t be done” because he doesn’t know how.

    And I suspect he’ll be promoted over the two competent ladies.

  33. 33.

    JPL

    October 6, 2015 at 10:38 am

    @raven: How was your flight?

  34. 34.

    Davebo

    October 6, 2015 at 10:39 am

    Pontoon boats are cool. Houseboats are better!

  35. 35.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 6, 2015 at 10:40 am

    @dedc79: Torture apologist says what?

  36. 36.

    raven

    October 6, 2015 at 10:42 am

    @JPL: It wasn’t that bad. We wrangled three seats so that helped. LAX is a frickin nightmare even at 3:30 am. I was traveling with things that would cause a stroke here so I won’t mention them but TSA was weird.

  37. 37.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 6, 2015 at 10:45 am

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    And has anyone else encountered people who don’t know how to do their jobs, but cover themselves by insisting it’s impossible?

    Try asking one of the helpful tellers to show him how it’s done. As to the question, from time to time.

  38. 38.

    NotMax

    October 6, 2015 at 10:49 am

    @Eric U.

    Little (as in never) mentioned in U.S. media are the existence of stable, mostly democratically governed incipient states/regional entities within what is recognized internationally as Somalia, such as Somaliland and Puntland.

  39. 39.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 6, 2015 at 10:52 am

    @Roger Moore: Oh I propose that it would take a single day right where they currently live. They would have to spend that day living with,

    No electriity.
    No water.
    No sewer.
    No road.
    No car.
    No clothes.
    No food.
    No…. well, let’s face it, anything.

  40. 40.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    October 6, 2015 at 10:53 am

    Gorgeous picture Betty – thanks.

    @raven: LAX is a permanent nightmare. Were you carrying long cases that might cause a stroke here?

    Speaking of nightmares, Carson (R-Lunacy) had a Q&A on FaceBook saying that he had operated on victims of gun violence

    but I never saw a body with bullet holes that was more devastating than taking the right to arm ourselves away.

  41. 41.

    PaulW

    October 6, 2015 at 10:53 am

    This can’t be real:

    …A key supporter of Florida’s “stand your ground” law filed a bill Tuesday that would shift a burden of proof to the state in cases in which people argue they used force in self-defense.
    The bill (HB 169), filed by Rep. Dennis Baxley, R-Ocala, came about two months after the Florida Supreme Court ruled that people who use “stand your ground” defenses have the burden of showing they should be shielded from prosecution. In such cases, pre-trial evidentiary hearings are held to determine whether defendants are immune from prosecution under the law.
    But Baxley’s bill, which will be considered during the 2016 legislative session, would place the burden of proof on prosecutors in the evidentiary hearings. The bill said it is “intended to correct misinterpretations of legislative intent made by the courts” and would apply retroactively to pending cases.

    /rage

  42. 42.

    Cervantes

    October 6, 2015 at 10:56 am

    @PaulW:

    Remember, as has been mentioned here before, Baxley owns a string of funeral homes …

  43. 43.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 6, 2015 at 10:56 am

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    And I find myself worrying that I’ll get him in trouble! Because if I insist, and his co-workers or boss hears…

    Next time just bring in a receipt from the last time. When he says it can’t be done, just quietly slide it across the counter and say, “Judy did it the last time. Why don’t you ask her how?” If he refuses, you want the boss to hear.

  44. 44.

    Eric U.

    October 6, 2015 at 10:57 am

    @NotMax: Ok, how about they move to Russia, because the same people seem to think that Putin is a really great libertarian leader? I don’t care where they go, their choice, we can’t help them here.

  45. 45.

    geg6

    October 6, 2015 at 11:00 am

    @Eric U.:

    Ah, thanks! That explains the hills. Very pretty. Much more my kind of terrain. How do you go back to Florida after being there?! I couldn’t. It drove me nuts that, when my sister lived in Florida, to climb a hill, you had to get onto the Palm City Bridge. The bridge was the only hill for hundreds of miles, I think.

  46. 46.

    raven

    October 6, 2015 at 11:08 am

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Yes, antiques that no one wants out there. My sis need money badly and I may really have something here so I have set about trying to figure out how to sell them.

  47. 47.

    Germy Shoemangler

    October 6, 2015 at 11:10 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: You’re absolutely right. Excellent suggestion.

    I had actually been thinking of doing that; bringing in my old receipts.

  48. 48.

    Chris

    October 6, 2015 at 11:13 am

    @dedc79:

    I fucking love these people who think it’s somehow an unspeakable abuse of the system to stand for election and then win because you made your case to the people and most of them liked it.

    ETA: I mean, nothing says “tired of the electoral process” like taking part in it so successfully!

  49. 49.

    bemused

    October 6, 2015 at 11:20 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    That’s a good idea. I’d like to see how he tries to get around insisting “it can’t be done” before.

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    Why worry about getting him into trouble when he is not concerned about doing his job correctly and inconveniencing you who is the customer? I’m guessing he inconveniences his co-workers too with his attitude and incompetence. I wonder if he is related to the bank manager or something like that.

  50. 50.

    catclub

    October 6, 2015 at 11:20 am

    @Germy Shoemangler: Posts leaves and shoves off.

  51. 51.

    catclub

    October 6, 2015 at 11:23 am

    @raven:

    I was traveling with things that would cause a stroke here

    Oars?

  52. 52.

    Peale

    October 6, 2015 at 11:25 am

    @dedc79: Yeah. That way you can explain his inaction on things as stemming from laziness or cowardice rather than deliberation.

  53. 53.

    Germy Shoemangler

    October 6, 2015 at 11:25 am

    @bemused:

    I’m guessing he inconveniences his co-workers too with his attitude and incompetence. I wonder if he is related to the bank manager or something like that.

    He definitely gives off an air of entitlement and arrogance.

    Here’s something he did that made me really dislike him. Last year I was waiting in line, and an older black lady was talking to the employees. She was laughing and making conversation. Maybe she was laughing too much for him. After she left, he piped up and said “what was THAT all about? She reminds me of [insert name of some other customer he apparently found odd]”

    Oh hell, come to think of it, next time he can’t print out a fucking receipt I’ll tell him to get one of the smart ladies to help him. And hope he doesn’t erase my bank account with one keystroke.

  54. 54.

    catclub

    October 6, 2015 at 11:27 am

    @Germy Shoemangler: I am always amazed, but no longer surprised, to find people who are not doing their job. House closing and not having all the documents – and not making sure that we the borrower get all the documents, was my base case. car salesmen who do not know the prices of cars is another.

    You want to ask: Have you ever done this before?

  55. 55.

    catclub

    October 6, 2015 at 11:29 am

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    And hope he doesn’t erase my bank account with one keystroke.

    If he does, the bank will trust the computer more than all those paper receipts you have obtained.

    They might trust the bank statement they have mailed to you.

  56. 56.

    Germy Shoemangler

    October 6, 2015 at 11:31 am

    @catclub: I’ve seen it again and again and the thing that baffles me is how they don’t give a shit. I’ve been in situations years ago when I was new on a job and unsure of how to accomplish a task. I’d be so apologetic and uncomfortable and anxious to make things right. But what I encounter nowadays are people who “don’t know how and don’t want to learn” and give off a toxic “the customer is always an asshole” vibe.

  57. 57.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 6, 2015 at 11:32 am

    @catclub: I see what you did.

  58. 58.

    Peale

    October 6, 2015 at 11:34 am

    @PaulW: Yep. Make sure you have no witnesses and the state can’t touch you. Next up, getting coroners to classify gunshots as “natural causes” in their reports.

  59. 59.

    WereBear

    October 6, 2015 at 11:35 am

    @Germy Shoemangler: But what I encounter nowadays are people who “don’t know how and don’t want to learn” and give off a toxic “the customer is always an asshole” vibe.

    I worked for a bank in the late 1970’s. Trust me, they were always there.

  60. 60.

    bemused

    October 6, 2015 at 11:37 am

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    Huh, he seems to think he is boss of everyone in his vicinity.

  61. 61.

    MrSnrub

    October 6, 2015 at 11:40 am

    Police investigating reports of a man with a gun at Community College of Philadelphia. The school is on lock down, but the police haven’t found anything yet. I have 2 friends who work at the high school across the street, which is in lock down as a precaution. Ugh.

  62. 62.

    Germy Shoemangler

    October 6, 2015 at 11:44 am

    headline:

    Ben Carson would skip meeting families of Oregon mass shooting but ‘would probably go to the next one’

    “But, Dr. Carson, would you go?” host Brian Kilmeade wondered. “If the people of the community say don’t go, would you still go if you were president on Friday?”

    “Probably not,” Carson replied. “I mean, I would probably have so many things on my agenda that I would go to the next one.”

    The GOP hopeful also explained that he would be willing to “listen” to ideas about how to stop mass shootings, but he insisted that no gun control proposal would solve the problem.

  63. 63.

    jurassicpork

    October 6, 2015 at 11:53 am

    Meanwhile, on Bullshit Mountain: Why is Donald Trump So Popular With the Right Wing? Mike Flannigan answers that.

  64. 64.

    Amir Khalid

    October 6, 2015 at 11:54 am

    @Germy Shoemangler:
    Now there’s a man who knows his priorities.
    /snark

  65. 65.

    bemused

    October 6, 2015 at 11:59 am

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    Ugh. Carson’s emotional makeup lacks any ability to empathize, a common trait among “severe” conservatives.

  66. 66.

    PurpleGirl

    October 6, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    “Probably not,” Carson replied. “I mean, I would probably have so many things on my agenda that I would go to the next one.”

    The thing about being president is that you have a staff that can arrange meetings and travel at a moments notice and change your schedule. The plane is always ready to take off.

  67. 67.

    Chris

    October 6, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    The GOP hopeful also explained that he would be willing to “listen” to ideas about how to stop mass shootings, but he insisted that no gun control proposal would solve the problem.

    It’s become really hard to discuss Republican politics without reference to communist states.

    No, I don’t mean secret polices and surveillance cultures and violations of civil liberty. I mean the whole “1984” approach to reality and ideology, the religion-gone-mad world in which the most absurd mantras are repeated so faithfully and incessantly we don’t even think about how ridiculous they are anymore. “No gun control proposal can solve the problem.” “Tax cuts increase revenue.” “Austerity works.” “Condoms and birth control pills don’t prevent pregnancy.” “The private sector can do [insert field of activity here] better than the government.” “Well, we just need to bomb some more.” The Ideology provides all the answers, and there’s no need to even think anymore.

  68. 68.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 6, 2015 at 12:06 pm

    @PurpleGirl: He’s rightfully sure there’ll be a “next one.”

  69. 69.

    Cervantes

    October 6, 2015 at 12:08 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Oh, you know, stuff happens.

  70. 70.

    kc

    October 6, 2015 at 12:10 pm

    Lake Lure?

  71. 71.

    catclub

    October 6, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    @jurassicpork:

    After all, what’s Trump saying this year that he hadn’t back when he was just an umber-faced buffoonish alsoran in 2012? That campaign was immediately exposed for the right wing performance art that it was and before anyone knew it, Trump decided to terminate his campaign and sulk back to Celebrity Apprentice.
    So what’s so different with the current goat rodeo? Since 2012, the only ways that Trump’s changed is he’s gained a few more pounds and his increasingly transparent double weave is the worse for wear.

    The key difference is that NBC did not renew his contract in 2015. So blame them.

  72. 72.

    trollhattan

    October 6, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    The local dead tree paper carried the gruesome Gerson piece and also, too, carried this, guaranteed to cause a few brain hemorrhages. An excerpt.

    Gun lobbyists claim it’s all about the Constitution. But we don’t put up with child pornography just because the First Amendment might be interpreted to protect it. We don’t let polygamists hide behind freedom of religion. We don’t allow demonstrators to take over the roads.

    So why – with mass shootings happening on a regular basis, and more than 30,000 people a year dying from gun violence, and enough guns now to arm every man, woman and child in the country – would we let the Second Amendment get so out of control that it kills us?

    If a mob of dangerous drug addicts invaded your town, and the sickest among them made it impossible to safely send your first-grader to school, or go for a walk on the pier, or greet your congresswoman at a mall, or go to the Cineplex to see a Batman movie or Amy Schumer in “Trainwreck,” how long would you care about the constitutional rights of loser junkies before you did something about it? I’m guessing not long.

    I feel for those who need a gun to feel equal. Like smokers and winos and vaccine resisters, they can’t help needing that feeling they need.

    But their vice doesn’t deserve special treatment, and we’ve let them bully the rest of us into perverting the Constitution just so they can feel good. Where I come from, that’s not just enabling. It’s an infringement on my life and my liberty.

    Willing to bet the op-ed inbox has already reached max.

  73. 73.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    October 6, 2015 at 12:14 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Sadly, as he should be. But, he’s also said he’d operated on victims of gun violence,

    but I never saw a body with bullet holes that was more devastating than taking the right to arm ourselves away.

  74. 74.

    benw

    October 6, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    @Chris:

    It’s become really hard to discuss Republican politics without reference to communist states.

    And in turn, media sources that rely on the fictional middle ground between the parties so that they can peddle all-Americans-want-the-same-thing and both-sides-do-it political journalism without having to do the hard work of actual factual investigative reporting are increasingly unhinged in their attempts to obfuscate the standard Republican party positions (hi, NYT!).

    Also, you forgot “white Christians are the real victims!” and “climate change is a liberal hoax.” in your greatest hits. :)

  75. 75.

    trollhattan

    October 6, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    And on the subject of the Oregon mass murder, it’s truly looking like Adam Lanza redux–mom was an ARDENT gun lover and considered herself and her boy as both having Asperger’s. She was proud of her son’s gun skills and was disdainful of “wannabes” at the gun range who seemed less so.

    Even if she has little to herself, I hope those families sue the holy crap out of her and take away every last scrap of ammo when they’re done.

  76. 76.

    MattF

    October 6, 2015 at 12:25 pm

    Since I commented on this before, I’ll note here that the Wordnik Kickstarter project has reached its goal.

  77. 77.

    Chris

    October 6, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    @benw:

    And in turn, media sources that rely on the fictional middle ground between the parties so that they can peddle all-Americans-want-the-same-thing and both-sides-do-it political journalism without having to do the hard work of actual factual investigative reporting are increasingly unhinged in their attempts to obfuscate the standard Republican party positions (hi, NYT!).

    Yeah, there’s different brands of ideological blindness. The professional centrists are especially lame because no matter how far they bend over backwards, it doesn’t win them any respect from the teabaggers who continue to call them “the liberal media” and hold them in contempt accordingly. There’s something seriously pathetic about their continued attempts to win the approval of the cool kids.

    Also, you forgot “white Christians are the real victims!” and “climate change is a liberal hoax.” in your greatest hits. :)

    I left a lot out, but “evolution is a liberal hoax” will probably always be the greatest hit to me. It’s the sort of belief that should’ve been buried a hundred years ago, that you expect to find in a failed state with no educational infrastructure. Might as well believe in witches, the flat Earth theory, or that sex with a virgin will cure you of AIDS.

  78. 78.

    Calouste

    October 6, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    Lindsey Graham on asking for help for South Carolina despite voting against help for the states affected by hurricane Sandy:

    “I don’t really remember me voting that way,”

    If Graham actually had any chance of getting the nomination, that would be the “I was before it before I was against it” of 2016.

  79. 79.

    mai naem mobile

    October 6, 2015 at 12:30 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler: I see this all the time. I know I sound like an old fart, but,shit is it too much to ask for you to get off your fucking cell phone so you can serve,me, your customer who indirectly pays your wages??? There’s places I go to where I’ll wait for the competent CSR. And as far as cars, I’ve known more about the last 3 cars I’ve bought than the salesperson and that is not because I’m some kind of car afficiando. I was at a not busy Sears Appliance outlet a couple of years ago looking at dishwashers and they had 3 similarly priced kenmore elite/kitchenaids and I asked the young sales guy what the difference was between them and he told me to look at the labels. Keep in mind one had no label and the second had an illegible label. IMHO,he didn’t want to walk from the service desk to where the dishwashers were.I walked out.

  80. 80.

    MattF

    October 6, 2015 at 12:30 pm

    @Calouste: Ugh. And worse, it may be true.

  81. 81.

    Seanly

    October 6, 2015 at 12:33 pm

    I was thinking Lake Fontana in western NC, but it is close to Great Smoky Nat’l Park and Pinchot Nat’l Forest & has very few houses edging the lake. I had to go there to evaluate an EIS for a road along the western edge.
    The story is at least very interesting to me – Lake Fontana Dam was planned pre-WWII to one elevation as part of flood control. State of NC built a new 2-lane road just above the planned lake elevation. Hostilities occurred and elevation of lake was increased to allow for power generation for Oak Ridge* subsequently submerging the new road. Mountain communities served by the road were forced to abandon their small towns. Feds promised to build a new road postwar. NC state built a tunnel to accommodate this future road. In the meantime, feds provided transport across the lake so former residents could visit grave sites (only a portion of the graves were relocated).
    Fast forward to end of war – Great Smoky Nat’l Park is established (or increased? I forget) and goes all the way to the western shore of Lake Fontana.
    The park rangers continue the yearly tradition of transporting the families and descendants of the displaced people to the other side of the lake to honor their ancestors (they have their own name for it in lieu of Memorial Day). The EIS labeled this yearly tradition of the crossing the lake as a new cultural resource which would be impacted by the feds building a road to now provide permanent access. In addition, the road through what is now an almost pristine natural area with mountainous terrain would cost almost a billion dollars for about 6 miles – mostly due to some very large bridges and the overall issues with building in such inhospitable terrain.
    The feds offered a choice to the local governments & state. They could provide an economic stimulus to the area of the current value of the submerged road or try to build the road. Despite some opposition from the now very elderly displaced residents, the local governments elected to get the community money.
    * When I first heard this, I was wondering how the feds knew they would need greater power demands in that area prior to the atomic bomb work. Turns out that was already some aluminum processing capabilities in the area so it was more that excess capacity was built and then utilized for the Manhattan Project later on.
    Sorry for the long post!

  82. 82.

    catclub

    October 6, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    @Chris:

    It’s the sort of belief that should’ve been buried a hundred years ago, that you expect to find in a failed state with no educational infrastructure

    Snopes Monkey trial was about 1929, I think. It was in Tennessee, so the end statement still applies.

  83. 83.

    benw

    October 6, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    @Chris:

    It’s the sort of belief that should’ve been buried a hundred years ago

    Well, I guess its a step in the right direction that a legitimate Republican candidate hasn’t suggested reintroducing primae noctis.

  84. 84.

    trollhattan

    October 6, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    @Calouste:
    Is he going to get away with such a bald-ass lie? (I know, is it a day ending with “y” but still….)

  85. 85.

    MattF

    October 6, 2015 at 12:49 pm

    @benw: Sounds like you’re excluding The Donald.

  86. 86.

    BruceFromOhio

    October 6, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    That is simply marvelous, BC.
    Sunblock!

  87. 87.

    benw

    October 6, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    @MattF: Trump inevitably ruins all the “at least Republicans aren’t as bad as X!” jokes, by doing/saying X.

  88. 88.

    Betty Cracker

    October 6, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    Those of you who guessed Lake Lure were right.

    @geg6: Classic case of different strokes. I love it up here; it is beautiful. But I couldn’t live here year-round. It’s too cold already, and I dislike driving on steep hills. I cannot imagine dealing with that in the ice and snow on a regular basis. I’ll stick to my bug and gator-infested swamp.

  89. 89.

    Elizabelle

    October 6, 2015 at 1:04 pm

    @trollhattan: That’s a terrific op ed by Shawn Hubler. I looked at the comments. The commenters are pretty much proving her point. No brain power or constructive comments in evidence in the first 21. One person: “You’re not getting my guns.”

    They seem to all be men. One complains the the SacBee is censoring his posts for name calling. Because he refers to the government as “idiotcrats.”

  90. 90.

    Elizabelle

    October 6, 2015 at 1:10 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Dirty Dancing! Some of it was filmed at Lake Lure.

    Have you been over to Chimney Rock? Love hiking there.

    ETA: And check out Bat Cave. It’s darling.

  91. 91.

    MrSnrub

    October 6, 2015 at 1:18 pm

    Looks like they arrested the gun man in Philadelphia, no one hurt.

  92. 92.

    Calouste

    October 6, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    @MrSnrub: Let me guess, the gunman is white, considering he is still alive?

  93. 93.

    D58826

    October 6, 2015 at 1:27 pm

    I realize this is beating a dead horse but Dr Carson made the following stmt

    Carson also criticized President Barack Obama for saying last week that shootings should be politicized so that politicians will actually take action to address gun violence.

    Politics and the political process is what we use in governing to solve the problems of the country. Heck we even use ‘politics; when we elect people to the church council. Exactly what does this fool think he will be doing if elected president? He can’t spend four years just flying around in AF One

  94. 94.

    Calouste

    October 6, 2015 at 1:36 pm

    @D58826: That is what Carson will be doing. He is, as pretty much all Republicans, running for Head of State, not for Head of Government. But the US President is both.

  95. 95.

    MrSnrub

    October 6, 2015 at 1:37 pm

    @Calouste: Actually, he’s African American. Apparently had an argument with someone he knew at the school, flashed the gun.

    He didn’t have the gun when arrested, cops are looking for it now.

  96. 96.

    MattF

    October 6, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    @D58826: Obama-the-troll wins again. When Obama says anything, wingers just lose what’s left of their already-limited critical abilities. Is Carson going to promise not to politicize, say, religion?

  97. 97.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 6, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    @Chris: “Evolution is a liberal hoax” was buried in the early 20th century. By the 1950s, hardly anyone in the mainstream media or politics was taking creationism seriously. Then it came back, as a tribal marker for the religious right in the 1970s and ’80s. It first reemerged at a time when all sorts of pseudoscientific weirdness was getting respectable press, which probably helped.

  98. 98.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 6, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler: Oh yes. I hate those ppl, not so secretly.

    But sometimes, there’s a failure to train new people. Training is a wasteful expense. Must economise.

  99. 99.

    Peale

    October 6, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    @D58826:

    Exactly what does this fool think he will be doing if elected president?

    Thinking up ways to make sure that gays don’t get married and women can’t get abortions. You know. Unpolitical stuff.

  100. 100.

    Denali

    October 6, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    I was thinking Fontana Lake also, since it is the only lake that is part of the Smoky Mountains National Park. We kayaked there several years ago and encountered men on a pontoon boat transporting all the apparatus for a pig roast including kegs of beer to the Park side of the Lake. When we mentioned this behaviour to the Park Ranger, he opined that perhaps they were journeying to visit a family grave site. I don’t think this was the case.

    It is a beautiful lake.

  101. 101.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 6, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): At least he’s put it right out on the table that no number of dead people is too high.

  102. 102.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    October 6, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    @MrSnrub:

    I’m wondering if there are some sociology or criminology studies out there that are able to tease out the difference between shootings where the killer is targeting at least one person he knows (as with the Virginia TV station shooting) even if bystanders are also injured/killed, and shootings of total strangers. I would think that the first group would have a lot in common with domestic abusers and the second would have a different set of issues, but I honestly don’t know.

  103. 103.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 6, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    @PaulW: GOP in Florida loathe the courts because they haven’t been able to stock them chock full of RW ideologues despite a decade of R misrule. JEB! fucked the executive agencies but good and of course the Lege is GOPified. Only reason they haven’t done more damage is that some of the Rs are in swing districts and have to appear sane to constituents.

    Redistricting is gonna be funnnnn.

  104. 104.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 6, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler: Wow, talking shit about customers in front of customers is a major no-no.

  105. 105.

    MattF

    October 6, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    @Calouste: Except, remember W? He ‘presided’ over the Oval Office, established a dress code, made up nicknames for reporters… and somehow escaped responsibility. It was all Rove, Cheney, and their ilk. But, to note what’s obvious, these were people that W put into positions of authority, and they did vast amounts of damage.

  106. 106.

    Cervantes

    October 6, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    This week-end, there is the Arts and Crafts Festival near the Lake Lure Inn. Not to mention every Monday night there’s bingo at the Lakeview …

  107. 107.

    trollhattan

    October 6, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):
    It would not surprise me in the least if congress hasn’t passed a law prohibiting federal funds expenditure on the study of gun murders and suicides.

  108. 108.

    MattF

    October 6, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    @trollhattan: You’re overnegating.

  109. 109.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 6, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    @mai naem mobile: You have no idea what kind of ridiculous bullshit is going on in retail right now. If the young’uns behind the desk seem stressed or disengaged, it’s because they’ve been set up to fail with contradictory dictats, unworkable policies, and the realization that they work for a company that actively screws its customers.

    They don’t bother to do vendor trainings on the stuff they sell anymore, so the flunkies on the floor don’t know! But who cares, customers will look all that up on the internet, right? You said the guy didn’t want to leave the desk. He probably has a reason not to, and it’s probably stupid, but his job hangs on it.

    I did retail 15 years ago and it sucked super hard then but it’s way, way worse now.

  110. 110.

    trollhattan

    October 6, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    @bemused:
    And a certain cohort of surgeons, also, too.

  111. 111.

    trollhattan

    October 6, 2015 at 2:05 pm

    @MattF:
    I know, but tried really hard to stick the landing.

  112. 112.

    MattF

    October 6, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    @trollhattan: I only notice these things now because I’ve been sensitized to the negation limits of our poor monkey brains by posts to the linguistics blog Language Log.

  113. 113.

    trollhattan

    October 6, 2015 at 2:18 pm

    @MattF:
    Thanks! (I think) Needs a “Warning: time sink” label.

  114. 114.

    gogol's wife

    October 6, 2015 at 2:23 pm

    @trollhattan:

    That is great! Am I just dreaming, or is this kind of discussion becoming more mainstream?

  115. 115.

    Chris

    October 6, 2015 at 2:23 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Well, I believe that politics and mainstream media had buried it, but was it also buried in the public mind? Last I checked, 50% or thereabouts of the American public didn’t believe in evolution. Is that, too, something that’s made a rebound lately or was it just a popular prejudice that the elites had agreed not to play to?

  116. 116.

    gogol's wife

    October 6, 2015 at 2:25 pm

    I’ve been too busy to read much BJ lately, but has anyone discussed the Sunday night Masterpiece Home Fires yet? I thought it was damn good, lots of wonderful acting by fierce women, led by Samantha Bond and Francesca Annis. Between this and Poldark, I’m feeling that the Downton withdrawal won’t be quite as painful.

  117. 117.

    JPL

    October 6, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    @gogol’s wife: I enjoyed it enough to see, if the dvd was available yet in the US. It won’t be released until Oct. 31, so I’ll just watch the entire series. lol

  118. 118.

    bemused

    October 6, 2015 at 2:35 pm

    @gogol’s wife:

    I’ll definitely be watching the next episode.

  119. 119.

    bemused

    October 6, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Also, far too many rightwing neighbors and relatives.

  120. 120.

    rikyrah

    October 6, 2015 at 2:39 pm

    GOP-led Montgomery County election board shifts early-voting sites
    By Bill Turque and Joshua Hicks September 22 

    The Republican majority on the Montgomery County Board of Elections, led by an appointee of Gov. Larry Hogan (R), voted Monday to shift two heavily used early-voting sites to less populous locations, prompting Democratic charges­ of voter suppression.

    The board voted 3 to 2 to move early voting from the Marilyn Praisner Community Center in Burtonsville, which serves high-poverty East County communities along U.S. 29, to the Longwood Community Recreation Center in Brookeville, 13 miles to the northwest.

    The panel also shifted early balloting from the Jane Lawton Community Recreation Center in Chevy Chase, about a half-mile from the Bethesda Metro station, to the Potomac Community Recreation Center, on Falls Road, 10 miles to the northwest.

    Unlike on Election Day, when voters must go to their assigned precincts, early-voting sites are open to all voters in the county. More than 8,000 people cast early ballots at the Lawton and Praisner centers in the 2014 general election, more than 20 percent of Montgomery’s total.

    ………………..

    “It’s outrageous,” said County Council member Tom Hucker (D-Silver Spring), who represents Burtonsville and much of East County. “It’s a naked attempt at voter suppression. . . . The intent of the law is that you put these sites at locations where they are going to be maximally effective, without regard to party.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/republican-led-montgomery-election-board-shifts-early-voting-sites/2015/09/22/dc237cb4-613b-11e5-b38e-06883aacba64_story.html

  121. 121.

    trollhattan

    October 6, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    @gogol’s wife:
    I’m allowing myself a glimmer of hope our media are less cowed by the Usual Gun Suspects lately. If Gerson is left to label the president’s address “a tantrum” it may be a tell he’s become more effective than they’re comfortable with.

  122. 122.

    Elizabelle

    October 6, 2015 at 2:42 pm

    Wow. Charles Pierce blogpost at Esquire about a rightwing newspaper editor in Roseburg dissing Obama, telling him to stay away this Friday …

    and it must have gone viral on Drudge or something. There are over 360 comments, and they’re pretty much a rightwing flying monkey rapid response team.

    If you sort the comments by “oldest”, you’ll see a lot of the usual commentators. Newest and top comments: The flying monkeys own the thread.

  123. 123.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 6, 2015 at 2:43 pm

    @Chris: It’s hard to say because the long-term polling I’ve seen on this, from Gallup, only goes back to the 1980s, when “scientific creationism” had come back into vogue. Their numbers are super-flat over that whole time, except that in recent years, the fraction of people believing in wholly materialistic evolution by natural selection has been gaining vs. middle-ground “evolution guided by God” positions. The fraction insisting that humans were specially created recently is still pretty much a constant:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/170822/believe-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx

    It’s quite possible that popular belief wasn’t reflected in the views of political and media elites in the mid-20th.

  124. 124.

    MattF

    October 6, 2015 at 2:44 pm

    @rikyrah: Yeah. It looks like there will be some attempt to overturn this, maybe through the legislature. Then we’ll see what Hogan does.

  125. 125.

    Mike E

    October 6, 2015 at 2:44 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Nobody puts baby in a corner!
    /Dirty Dancing was filmed there

  126. 126.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 6, 2015 at 2:45 pm

    …And, yes, I think the questions Gallup asks are kind of infelicitously worded, but at least they’ve been asking the same questions over a longish period of time, which makes it possible to examine the trend.

  127. 127.

    trollhattan

    October 6, 2015 at 2:49 pm

    @Elizabelle:
    Thanks. I was completely unaware of LBJ’s speech, which could simply double the numbers and be delivered today.

    If guns are to be kept out of the hands of the criminal, out of the hands of the insane, and out of the hands of the irresponsible, then we just must have licensing. If the criminal with a gun is to be tracked down quickly, then we must have registration in this country. The voices that blocked these safeguards were not the voices of an aroused nation. They were the voices of a powerful lobby, a gun lobby, that has prevailed for the moment in an election year.

    Gosh, was the NRA just a wee educational shop in 1968 or had the worm already turned?

  128. 128.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 6, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): You mean like the DC Sniper? Yeah, he had issues.

  129. 129.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 6, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    @rikyrah: 10 miles away, 13 miles away. Sick.

    Montgomery County was always a hole, but when I was there they put up a facade at being awesome at delivering government services. Not no more, I take it.

  130. 130.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    October 6, 2015 at 3:03 pm

    @Another Holocene Human:

    It was never proven that his “real” motive was to kill his ex-wife, especially since he didn’t actually do it and never said that was his motive.

    There are some psychological similarities to the Columbine killers since you had a sociopath/psychopath luring a kid with serious psychiatric problems into his scheme, but those kinds of “folie a deux” murders are rare enough that it would be hard to draw a specific policy from it. The Hillside Stranglers were a similar pair. I would definitely park Malvo and Muhammad on the serial killer side of the equation, not the mass murderer/spree killer side.

  131. 131.

    Elizabelle

    October 6, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    @trollhattan: The NRA takeover by ammosexuals happened in the 1970s. Probably perking along in the late 1960s …

    Never a bad time to throw TBogg’s always pertinent post into the mix. I was the NRA.

    It was no coincidence that, at this same time (this being early seventies), the NRA changed their focus from hunting programs to promoting gun ownership and defending the 2nd Amendment from imaginary enemies.

    Each trip afield meant running into more men concerned with the idea of shooting but unburdened with any concept of the etiquette of hunting. For an adult, all you needed was the cash to purchase a gun and a hunting license and you were good to go forth and kill.

    The last time my father, my brother, and I hunted together was pheasant hunting in Imperial Valley. …

    …. I used to hunt and I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the hell out of it. But I wouldn’t consider attempting it now, in an age where gun-owners lump AR-15’s in with sporting guns. Where a lousy shooter can disguise his inability to shoot with an extended clip that allows him to keep shooting until he finally hits something, anything. Where hunters feel the need for silencers for God knows what reason.

    The NRA has killed off the sportsman with their neglect and replaced him with the gun nut who spends more money on more guns, not out of a desire to feed his family, but to stave off a mythical jack-booted government bogeyman coming to take away those guns. This paranoid vision of America that the NRA sells is why we have the gun violence that we have today, because no sensible gun legislation can be passed because of what the father of one of Elliott Rodger’s victims described as “craven, irresponsible politicians and the NRA.”

    The gun nuts who are paranoid about the government and hate the president? That’s what’s commenting at Charlie Pierce’s now. And on the SacBee article trollhattan put up.

    They need their guns because — tyranny.

  132. 132.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 6, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    @Elizabelle: I always find that “tyranny” thing amusing. It was even mentioned by Carson yesterday or today. If the hypothetical tyrannical government sent in a company of Marines, the average ammosexual would soil himself in the two seconds he had left to live, before even reaching his AR-15 knockoff.

  133. 133.

    Brachiator

    October 6, 2015 at 3:44 pm

    @D58826:

    Politics and the political process is what we use in governing to solve the problems of the country. Heck we even use ‘politics; when we elect people to the church council. Exactly what does this fool think he will be doing if elected president? He can’t spend four years just flying around in AF One

    Carson seems to honestly believe in a theocracy, and that there is some inherent synergy between the Bible (fundamentalist style) and free market capitalism. The secular federal government is unnatural and unnecessary.

    No, it doesn’t make a lick of sense. But there you are.

  134. 134.

    lurker dean

    October 6, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    so carson is now endorsing mcmegan’s “rush the shooter” tactic.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ben-carson-oregon-shooting_5613d305e4b0baa355ad32d6?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000212&te=ThinkProgress

    which reminds me of dougj’s great troll of sully:

    “Believe it or not, there is even a passage in Beowulf involving
    “shooter rushing”, albeit with spears. Hengest briefly loses his mind
    after drinking tainted water and is subdued by a group of unarmed men
    who run at him.”

    https://balloon-juice.com/2012/12/18/yo-bum-rush-the-show/#comment-4066294

  135. 135.

    MattF

    October 6, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    @Another Holocene Human: That’s not quite fair. The decision to close early voting sites was made by Republican-appointed members of a committee, on a party-line vote. Republicans were a majority because the governor is Republican– in contrast to the County government, legislative and executive, which is pretty much all Democratic. The County government was not at all pleased with the committee’s decision and will try to change it.

  136. 136.

    Brachiator

    October 6, 2015 at 4:09 pm

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    There are two nice lady tellers who conduct the transaction, and hand me my receipt. But there is one young man who works there (he seems to only be there in the late morning or early afternoon) who doesn’t give me a receipt. When I asked him for a printout he insisted it can’t be done because it’s a different credit union. When I politely asked for one, he went “tsk!” and wrote out the balance by hand on a piece of paper.

    When it comes to money, deposits and other transactions, there is no such thing as “no receipt,” as far as I’m concerned.

    The suggestion that another poster made that you present a receipt for a similar transaction should be all you need to prompt this person to do the right thing.

    Why can’t people learn how to do their jobs? And has anyone else encountered people who don’t know how to do their jobs, but cover themselves by insisting it’s impossible?

    The employee is not just responsible for his or her own training. It’s up to the management to make sure that staff are trained to do the job.

    If an employee tells me that something is impossible, and I have been accommodated in the past, I would have to ask for a manager or some other person to help me.

  137. 137.

    Elizabelle

    October 6, 2015 at 4:10 pm

    @lurker dean: Oh Gawd. Coffee alert.

    these countries have
    traditionally had among the lowest rates of mass shootings (Anders
    Behring Breivik being a true outlier) of any western countries. It’s
    counterintuitive, but most shooters “freeze” when run at by a group,
    even a group of children,

    Doug’s skills are somewhat wasted in academia …

  138. 138.

    Gravenstone

    October 6, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    @lurker dean:

    so carson is now endorsing mcmegan’s “rush the shooter” tactic.

    Which is the absolute last option that should be considered, per our training. And I can’t express how angry it makes me that we (or anyone) even has to even have “active shooter” training and drills.

  139. 139.

    lurker dean

    October 6, 2015 at 4:23 pm

    @Gravenstone: your comment reminds me of an older wapo piece that i saw on twitter the other day.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/rehearsing-for-death-a-pre-k-teacher-on-the-trouble-with-lockdown-drills/2014/10/28/4ab456ea-5eb2-11e4-9f3a-7e28799e0549_story.html

    it’s absurd that this is what teachers and their young students are reduced to because our politicians are cowering before the NRA and a small number of gun lunatics.

  140. 140.

    J R in WV

    October 6, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    @trollhattan:

    This was done, I think in the early 1990s. They actually reduced the budget of the CDC by the however many millions of dollars that had been spent on deaths by gunfire over the past couple of budgetary years. AND banned the scientific study of death by gunfire.

    Like banning the study of virii because invisible demons!!

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