Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

“Alexa, change the president.”

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.

Come on, man.

I did not have this on my fuck 2025 bingo card.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.

“Facilitate” is an active verb, not a weasel word.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

You are here: Home / Isn’t That Special

Isn’t That Special

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McCarthy is apparently not wingnutty enough to be Speaker:

House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy has dropped out of the race to succeed House Speaker John Boehner, in a shocking move that reflected his inability to gather the support of the Republican caucus.

The move comes as House Republicans were in a closed-door meeting to select their nominee for speaker and came without any warning. Boehner has postponed the vote.

What lunatic will they burp up now?

Reader Interactions

345Comments

  1. 1.

    Corner Stone

    I’m wondering if the 40 most repulsive House R’s in the Freedom Caucus can cow the rest of the members to go with Devil Dan Webster.

  3. 3.

    benw

    The move comes as House Republicans were in a closed-door meeting to select their nominee for speaker and came without any warning.

    This sentence is infinitely hilarious.

  4. 4.

    dmsilev

    So the other two candidates were Chaffetz and Webster. Crazier and Crazierier. Do we get a third candidate from the Paul Ryan (“Crazy, but in a respectable way”) wing of the party? Maybe Weeping John decides that retirement isn’t the best idea after all.

  6. 6.

    Hunter Gathers

    I say they should just get it over with and make Ted Cruz speaker. The Speaker does not have to be a member of the House. And Cruz has them by the balls anyway.

  7. 7.

    Ayn Randy

    This pretty much confirms that we’re getting at least a shutdown. Next up is Republicans reintroducing debt and deficit talk into the Wingnut Wurlitzer, so that the right-wing bobbleheads get their talking points hammered out for the media to vomit it back out as conventional wisdom. This is not a great time to be an American.

  8. 8.

    JohnPM

    I will say it again: I would not be surprised if we end up with Speaker Pelosi again. I have to imagine that she can cut a deal with 30 Republicans who do not want to be known as part of the crazy party any longer.

  11. 11.

    Elizabelle

    Eating my lunch salad. Little too early for popcorn. But soon!

    LOL. McCarthy is nowhere as bright as people would have you think.

  12. 12.

    Punchy

    There’s no way the new guy will be within 3-sigma of the mild crazy that Boehner displayed. They’ll go Full Fucktard. Ladies and Gents, I bring you very early news of a July/August Impeachment of Obama.

  13. 13.

    Mike J

    Do you ever wonder if Orange John wasn’t just telling the kids, “You think it’s so easy to run this House? Ok, you’re going to do all the cooking, and all the washing up and all the laundry so you can see what it’s like.”

  14. 14.

    dmsilev

    @Elizabelle:

    LOL. McCarthy is nowhere as bright as people would have you think.

    Since everything I saw about him lead me to believe that he was in over his head, learning that he’s even stupider than that is kind of frightening.

  15. 15.

    Elizabelle

    @JohnPM: I’ve been wondering that too, ever since Boehner quit with his zippity doo dah and made it clear he was sick of dealing with the suicide caucus.

    Speaker Pelosi. Or Nancy as the power behind the Speaker.

  17. 17.

    JPL

    @JohnPM: All Boehner needs to do is raise the Debt Ceiling and give the dems a leadership role in the committee. Then he could get enough votes.,

  19. 19.

    Elizabelle

    @dmsilev: I’ve seen Morning Joe ilk folk talking up McCarthy as bright enough. They been trying powerfully to attach “integrity” to Trey Gowdy too.

  21. 21.

    Ayn Randy

    @JohnPM: Nah. Republicans are smarter than that. They’ll be leaderless before they split the vote and allow Pelosi back in the chair.

  22. 22.

    Archon

    Can someone explain to me how we don’t end in a major constitutional crisis with this Republican party?

  27. 27.

    Cervantes

    @Archon:

    Can someone explain to me how we don’t end in a major constitutional crisis with this Republican party?

    We’ve been in an almost-major one since January, 2011.

  29. 29.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Elizabelle:
    I just checked. It’s ‘absolute majority of the votes cast’. It takes 60 Republican representatives to not vote out of protest for Pelosi to win without any Republicans voting for her. A tall order, but these are weird times.

    @Punchy:
    I do not know. Bear in mind, Boehner’s refusing to allow bills to the floor that would have easily passed with Democratic support is why we ever had shutdown crises. His rule was ‘Nothing will be voted on unless it passes solely by Republican support.’ He relaxed it only at the last moment in desperate situations. There are only two steps more extreme than that, ‘willing to shut down the government indefinitely’ and ‘willing to default on the debt.’ I’m not saying they won’t elect someone like that, but it’s important to remember just how extremist Boehner was in actual practice.

  30. 30.

    elmo

    Speaker doesn’t have to be a member of Congress at all. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you…

    Speaker Sarah Palin!

  31. 31.

    dmsilev

    Vox has a statement from someone “close to McCarthy”:

    “This was a decision based on a lot of thought and soul-searching by Kevin and his family. And that’s the key in his decision — his family,” said one person close to him. “It certainly wasn’t about getting the votes. That could’ve happened. However, he’s not going to be repeatedly attacked by 40 members of our conference. Nothing will ever be good enough for them and Kevin doesn’t want to put his family through that and he doesn’t want to put the 200-plus other members through that.”

    While that last part is definitely true, it’s been definitely and self-evidently true for quite a while now. Also, it’s going to remain true no matter who takes the reins.

    Congratulations, Republicans, the monster you created has turned on you. Again.

  32. 32.

    Patricia Kayden

    Who cares? They’re all bad. I can’t see how any of them could be worse than Boehner.

  33. 33.

    Jeffro

    The beginning of the end of the GOP…a couple more bangs like this,and all that will be left are whimpers.

  35. 35.

    SFAW

    @Cervantes:

    We’ve been in an almost-major one since January, 2011.

    Some would say January, 2009, when the Kenyan Mooslim Usurper seized the throne office.

  39. 39.

    Hawes

    Given the stupidity of our national media and the ignorance of the average American voter, I think the dysfunctional clusterfuck of what the House is about to become will, in fact, be blamed in some people’s minds on Obama.

    In a sane, rational world, this on going chaos would demonstrate the complete unsuitability of the GOP to govern more than a bake sale.

    Show of hands: Who thinks we live in a sane and rational world?

  41. 41.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Patricia Kayden:
    Boehner was really, really bad, but there are members of the House who think that shutting down the government and defaulting on the debt are victories that are the only way to save the country. A Speaker has the power to make that happen all by himself. There’s way more room to the left of Boehner than to the right, but every possibility to the right is truly scary.

  42. 42.

    SFAW

    @Jeffro:

    The beginning of the end of the GOP…a couple more bangs like this,and all that will be left are whimpers.

    Wishful thinking. They’ll be around long after you pass on. They’ll probably be completely f’ing unhinged, as opposed to mostly unhinged (as they are today), but they’ll still be here.

  43. 43.

    dmsilev

    An institution in chaos, strongly in need of a turn-around expert.

    Mitt Romney! Rested and Ready!

  47. 47.

    SFAW

    @Mike J:

    Stan Pines for speaker!

    Baud! for Speaker, as he begins his long march to the Preznitency. It’ll be a much easier climb from Speaker, than from his current position of “nutcase noted Balloon Juice commenter.”

  48. 48.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    THIS is what happens when the GOP wimps out and lets the liberal gun-grabbers keep them from going ‘open carry’ in their House caucus meetings.

  51. 51.

    Joshua Norton

    They may end up having to beg Boehner to stay. Then the schaden will just freude itself.

  52. 52.

    MattF

    Can we have a poll on how many thousands of Dow-Jones points it will take to make the wingers raise the debt ceiling?

  53. 53.

    Jeffro

    @SFAW: nickel bet.

    The name might survive, but it doesn’t matter – between this and Trump/Carson, we’re now fully into the Tea Party era. The balance has tipped, and the Establishment GOP isn’t gonna get its party back.

  54. 54.

    lamh36

    Thought I read a thought balloon somewhere that Steve Scalise was thinking about running for speaker.

    It would just be perfect for the current GOP to get themselves a David Duke endorsed speaker…what could go wrong with that image?

  56. 56.

    Elizabelle

    OT: catching some of “The Shootist”, John Wayne’s last picture, which is one of the finest ever made. Be on my top 10 list, for sure. On again tonight at 6:15, I think, on Retroplex cable channel.

    From a novel by Glenn Swarthout, wonderful writer I need to catch up with. Wrote the novel that became Tommy Lee Jones’ “The Homesman” last year. That movie is bleak and stays with you. Says a lot about the old West that mythmakers would rather forget.

  57. 57.

    dmsilev

    @Joshua Norton: That’d be hilarious. The other (unlikely, but even more hilarious) possibility would be for Pelosi to engineer a “unity” candidate (maybe someone like Steny Hoyer) who gets all of the D votes and the couple dozen or so Rs needed to put him over the top.

  58. 58.

    Redshift

    @dmsilev:

    While that last part is definitely true, it’s been definitely and self-evidently true for quite a while now. Also, it’s going to remain true no matter who takes the reins.

    And it’s why the bozos never came close to voting Boehner out. They hated him for not being intransigent enough, but almost all of them could tell that their compatriots would make the job miserable for anyone who took it.

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I’m assuming the Beltway is still treating John Boehner like a likable, moderate fella who, gosh darn it, tried his darndest? I turned on MSNBC in time to see Brian Williams (ugh) kick it to Luke Russert (retch). If I took it off mute, I assume that’s what I’d hear. Still muted, and we’re hearing from Jason Chaffetz. Good lord, is that little toad gonna wind up two heart beats from the presidency?

    (Has anyone heard a serious centrist blame this on Obama? A hundred quatloos says it’s Fournier)

  62. 62.

    Tim C.

    @Face: Why? Beltway media will either pretend the following:

    A) The GOP isn’t insane

    B) That the fact some Democrat once said something about not liking some strategy or another means both parties do it.

    And as always, Republicans can never ever be in disarray.

  63. 63.

    gex

    @Chris: And even if there were, those 30 will what? Voluntarily cede their chairs to the wingnut that will primary them next time around? Sane Republicans can’t make much of a stand when the Republican voting base lacks enough sane members to support them. Perhaps there are 30 who are willing to actually do the right thing even though it costs them personally. Those folks are rare in politics though, even rarer on the GOP side.

  64. 64.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @dmsilev:

    Don’t forget, every Republican member of Congress is convinced that he’s smarter than Obama because, well, look at that guy. No way he’s smarter than any white person.

    So if Obama can be president, any white dude with a pulse could be Speaker, because it’s so obviously easy.

  65. 65.

    Baud

    The Chamber and Wall Street need to step in and bribe Citizens United some Republicans to do the right thing by promising them cushy lobbying jobs if they get primaried.

  67. 67.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @elmo:

    Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you…

    Speaker Sarah Bristol Palin!

    Fixed to make just as much sense.

  68. 68.

    D58826

    @Baud: As I said on the earlier thread – I do have a simple solution. Since the GOP is convinced that Obama is a tyrant who wants to declare martial law and rule as the first Kenyan Muslim Caliph, well he should do so. At least the GOP can say they were right about one thing in the past 30 years. (snark).c Then it really would be Obama’s fault!!!!!!:-)

  70. 70.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    The beginning of the end of the GOP…a couple more bangs like this,and all that will be left are whimpers.

    @Jeffro: You’ve got to be kidding.

  71. 71.

    SFAW

    @Jeffro:

    and the Establishment GOP isn’t gonna get its party back.

    That’s been true for awhile. It’s still the GOP, just as when all the Southern Dems (e.g., Strom) moved into the GOP. Their platform is still approximately the same as it was six years ago, etc.

    About the only thing that would change that is if there were a resurgence of liberalism (more or less), and the House flipped to 300-plus Dems, the Senate to 60-plus Dems. Given the current economic conditions (not the unemployment rate etc., I’m talking about the ability of the US to regain its preeminence in the manufacturing and production arena), that seems highly unlikely. That’s because the Rethugs will continue to have economic anxieties to exploit, and they certainly know how to do that. If things were going stunningly well for (what used to be called) the middle class, no one would get too bent about the bottom 10 percent getting a little more economic support than what the MOTU think is appropriate, and so on.

  72. 72.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @JohnPM: I will say it again: I would not be surprised if we end up with Speaker Pelosi again.
    I think talking Boehner into sticking around is more likely. I’m trying to think of some recently retired, conservative, non-loon whose phone(s) might be ringing right now. Not that it will happen, but I suspect it’s happening. Someone like Lugar (assuming that what I’ve read, that the Speaker doesn’t necessarily have to be a Member). I imagine people are lobbying Paul Ryan, but I can’t imagine he wants to be left holding this bag of warm turds.
    ETA: I bet Newt Gingrich is calling some people at Politico trying to get them to type that people are saying that the GOP should call on Elder Statesman and (Possible) Saviour of Western Civilization Newton Leroy.

    And the horror that just occurred to me: Dick Armey.

    (Shouldn’t’ve taken it off mute: Brian Williams has twice referred to the problems in “Congress”. Both sides, darn it, what a shame)

  73. 73.

    D58826

    Paul Ryan has announced that he will NOT run for speaker. And here we all thought he was as dumb as a large bag of hammers. Looks like it’s only a small bag in his case.

  74. 74.

    peach flavored shampoo

    @Srv: From the number of commenters who’ve already said this, it’s apparently a well-known fact.

    I predict Speaker Scalia. God knows he does no real work at this day job (Every ruling is just Cleek’s Law, updated yearly).

  75. 75.

    Daulna

    @dmsilev:

    Since everything I saw about him lead me to believe that he was in over his head, learning that he’s even stupider than that is kind of frightening.

    The Republican leadership knew he wasn’t bright. When they saw how really stupid he was (the ‘Benghazi committee’ s purpose was to ruin Hillary’ gaffe), they told him they were never going to lift him up to sit in the Speaker’s chair, and it was too big for him to climb into on his own.

  77. 77.

    beltane

    @Baud: The banksters were able to dictate their terms to a far-left government in Greece. They should be able to do the same to the Freedom Carcass. Carrot, stick, whatever it takes.

  79. 79.

    Laertes

    We’re all gathered about a mile away from the Congressional palace, eagerly watching the chimney. After each round of balloting, the ballots are burned. Most of the time, the result is inconclusive and the ballots, when burned, cause a simple cloud of white smoke to emerge from the chimney.

    When a new speaker has been selected, the burning of the ballots emits a loud raspberry sound and a strong reek of rotting eggs. Then the new Speaker dons the ceremonial clown shoes and waddles to the palace balcony to greet the crowd.

  80. 80.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    For the record, unlike McCarthy, I would welcome the Freedom Caucus’s hate.

    Which is why we support you. Well, that, plus the fact that you’re a commie.

  81. 81.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    There’s no way the new guy will be within 3-sigma of the mild crazy that Boehner displayed. They’ll go Full Fucktard. Ladies and Gents, I bring you very early news of a July/August Impeachment of Obama.

    @Punchy: Following the seven-month ongoing government shutdown that started in December of 2015 when we ran out of money and defaulted on all our debts.

    Well, hopefully this will scare some occasional Dems into getting off their lazy asses and voting. The GOP wants this, so appealing to their voters will be less than productive.

  84. 84.

    Elizabelle

    At cocktail hour, we must tip a glass of something to Sean Hannity.

    He helped issue in this clusterf*ck.

  86. 86.

    SFAW

    @dmsilev:

    Is there any legal requirement that the Speaker be alive?

    Not a lawyer, but: if the Supreme Court can declare a corporation to have personhood, I don’t see why they couldn’t do the same for a zombie.

  90. 90.

    BGK

    The right wing sites are blowing up, saying this is a result of a rumored, um, relationship between McCarthy and Renee Elmers of North Carolina. Irresponsible to speculate?

  92. 92.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Oh good christ, BriWi makes a point to tells us that GOP caucus, “lunched together, prayed together, said the pledge of allegiance together”

  94. 94.

    catclub

    @BGK: Somebody Livingston of Louisiana is on line 1. Right during the Clinton/Monica impeachment boot out Newt Gingrich era.

  95. 95.

    Elizabelle

    @D58826: But maybe Paul Ryan wouldn’t mind being appointed. Cuz he’s the brains of the House, and so modest …

    I love that MSNBC has brought Brian Williams in for this.

    “This is about the rupture in one of our big political parties.” — Chris Matthews

    “This is the day it really does explode.”

    CM, saying what was obvious to anyone here months ago.

  97. 97.

    Pee Cee

    @SFAW:

    Not a lawyer, but: if the Supreme Court can declare a corporation to have personhood

    Koch Industries, Inc. for speaker!

  99. 99.

    Cervantes

    @Julie:

    I’ve never seen that in an actual headline before.

    The LA Times has it, in a headline and in the article.

  100. 100.

    shell

    Guess nobody IS crazy enough to want the job.

    Oh, and I wish the newsies would retire the phrase ‘shocking move.’

  101. 101.

    catclub

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I’m trying to think of some recently retired, conservative, non-loon whose phone(s) might be ringing right now. …
    And the horror that just occurred to me: Dick Armey.

    I mentioned Tom Delay. Maybe they can be a Texas twosome.

    Does McCarthy keep his job as majority leader?

  102. 102.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    @Jeffro: This is what the people who voted them into office want.

    Politicians who do what their constituents want tend to do well.

  106. 106.

    sacrablue

    @raven: Not doggie, but feline. Our old boy, Harry, blew out his knee when he got caught trying to jump a fence. He had reconstructive surgery at age 9. He fully recovered and lived to age 19. His knee felt lumpy, but it didn’t seem to stop him from doing anything he wanted to do.

  109. 109.

    SFAW

    @sacrablue:

    His knee felt lumpy, but it didn’t seem to stop him from doing anything he wanted to do.

    How many yards per carry, post-surg?

  111. 111.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Tweety calls out Boehner for failing to stand up to the right.

    It won’t take with many people on his network before Hayes comes on, but he does trip over a nut once in a while

    ETA: Halperin, in case the suits in the suites thought Brian Williams talking to Tweety was too much leftism

  115. 115.

    Elizabelle

    Mark Halperin drops the “things outside of his professional life” as a reason.

    The Free Republic whisperer.

  116. 116.

    Patricia Kayden

    @BGK: Irresponsible not to speculate. McCarthy didn’t strike me as particularly articulate anyways, which I assume should be a requirement for a Speaker.

  117. 117.

    Peale

    This pretty much ends with us having to deal with the reality that the Freedom caucus wants, or it ends with us handing our government over to a “benevolent” general for awhile while we write a new constitution to prevent this from happening again. Whether that means preventing a Freedom caucus to form or prevent an Obama from being elected is up in the air at the moment. I mean, that’s what pretty much every other democracy in the hemisphere has done from time to time to protect the prerogatives of its elite. I don’t see why we think we’re exceptional.

  118. 118.

    GregB

    Meanwhile the same nutbags that chant ‘we’re number one’ are hastening the end of the US dollar as the world’s currency.

  120. 120.

    Elizabelle

    “The Center will not hold.” — either Brian Williams or Tweety. Amended to “The Center Right.”

    And then — immediately- “And Hillary Clinton and the Center Left.”

    The Center — to NBC — is moderate Republicans or gun humping Democrats. Period.

  121. 121.

    Anoniminous

    If I’m reading this right, the Speaker needs to be elected by an absolute majority of the House or 218 votes. Pelosi controls, more or less, 188 votes. Add 30 Republicans and her pick is in.

    Given the cray-cray in the GOP House it may come to that.

  122. 122.

    raven

    @sacrablue: Cool, thanks! Lil Bit is not much of a runner anymore but the morning walks are important. . . they are also the therapy we’ll have to do.

  123. 123.

    dmsilev

    Erick of the House of Erick thinks maybe it was Teh Sex which did in McCarthy:

    There’s a guy out in America who has emails for a massive number of members of Congress and the email addresses of highly influential conservatives outside Congress.

    A few days ago, he emailed out to 91 people, including these members of Congress, an email with a series of links to stories alleging a relationship between Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) 61% and Rep. Renee Ellmers (R-NC) 60% of North Carolina. It is worth nothing that the two deny a relationship.

    (those percentages, by the way, are essentially purity scores, Heritage Action ratings. They pop up a full scorecard when you mouse-over, just like stock prices on some business-news website)

  125. 125.

    raven

    Speaker Boehner then immediately moved to adjourn the meeting. Rooney said there was “total shock” and some members were audibly crying.

  127. 127.

    Sad_Dem

    @Hawes: The laws of physics are sane and rational. That they generate crazy brains is just one of their better jokes.

  129. 129.

    misterpuff

    @Pee Cee: They are already Shadow Speaker, either them or a mixture of cigarettes and booze Corps, oops I mean Boehner….

  133. 133.

    peach flavored shampoo

    To everyone commenting that the Speaker need not be a House member….has this actually ever happened before?

  134. 134.

    MomSense

    Wow, this is past the pass the popcorn into better stock up on batteries, water and canned goods bizarre.

  135. 135.

    Roger Moore

    @Anoniminous:

    If I’m reading this right, the Speaker needs to be elected by an absolute majority of the House or 218 votes.

    Note, though, that’s decided by House rules, not by the Constitution. The Constitution says only that the House shall choose its speaker and other officers; it makes no mention of exactly how to make those choices.

  136. 136.

    Adam L Silverman

    While I think it’s unlikely they’ll go outside the current GOP members of the House, watch for Allen West’s name to be circulated/floated. He, more than anyone else, tends to get brought up when this type of situation gets batted around.

  141. 141.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    I figure they’ll figure out a way to elect a Speaker, and it won’t be Nancy. The Teabaggers are “this close” to having enough power to do what they want (in their minds) – they’re not going to give up now.

    Who will it be? Dunno. RollCall says Sanford says it’ll be Gowdy or Ryan. But since neither of them say they’re running…

    But it’ll be someone presently in the House on the Teabagger side of the aisle. I can’t see Boehner deciding to stick around, not after singing “Zippidy Do Dah”…

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  142. 142.

    Elizabelle

    Barney Frank: “The House Republicans appear to be the gang that can’t shoot each other straight.”

    Says the House Republicans do not understand the Constitution or how to govern. Yup.

  145. 145.

    Laertes

    @Adam L Silverman:

    watch for Allen West

    Are you telling me that there are two hundred and thirty-four goddamn Republicans in the House, and not one of them is a war criminal?

  146. 146.

    Elie

    I dunno.. this seems kinda scary to me. Hope someone is modeling the various alternatives pending possible steps taken (or not taken) by the Republicans. I am sure that Treasury and Administration thinkers are looking deep into the constitution for ways out of this if the Republicans intentionally (and I do think that this may be a gambit), bring down the whole leadership of the House as a back door to closing down the government and coercing outcomes they want. These are reckless crazy people. I no longer believe that there is enough sanity in the group to sustain the Constitutional requirements to run this government.

    No, I do not want popcorn. This is getting very strange and scary.

  148. 148.

    MomSense

    @SFAW:

    I’m even more spoiled than that. My good friend sends a text to her husband and he drops them off on his way home from his boat!

  149. 149.

    Anoniminous

    @MattF:

    Yup, but the Establishment/Corporate Wing of the GOP disagrees with Dems about Policy but they don’t want to burn the country down either. I’m not saying it will happen, merely that it could.

  152. 152.

    D58826

    White House Press Sect. said that whoever is elected will face a much more difficult task than McCarthy would have. I think he understates the problem. The crazies have gotten two scalps now. They are not about tgo compromise on their goals what ever they may be. Cong. Blackburn, one of the crazies, just told MSNBC that they will elect a speaker who is dedicated to rolling back the Obama years. They will not accept anyone who is even remotely willing to compromise. Can you just imagine Gohmert or Blackburn or almost any other current GOOPERs being 3rd in line to the White House.

  156. 156.

    trollhattan

    @peach flavored shampoo:
    Taking your lead, how about Silent Speaker Clarence Thomas? Or as suggested further upthread, Speakeraditor Sarah Palin? Who will speak endlessly, assembling those word things into little groups, some of which will be accidentally English sentences.

    And who among us doesn’t want to witness Sarah’s first whip count?

    “No, Madam Speaker, that’s not what it OUCH!!@!!!“

  158. 158.

    lamh36

    BWHAHAHAH…It’s funny but sad all at the same time.

    @NishaChittal
    John Boehner’s Tonight Show appearance tonight has been cancelled per NBC

  159. 159.

    SFAW

    @MomSense:

    My good friend sends a text to her husband and he drops them off on his way home from his boat!

    I think I love you.

    Approximately where do you live? I’ll be over, I’ll bring the steamers and corn.

  160. 160.

    Punchy

    That banging noise y’all hear is Jon Stewart at the door of the Daily Show HQ, begging and screaming for his job back. Never in the history of left-leaning comedy (is there any other kind?) has the job been so friggin easy.

  166. 166.

    Peale

    @D58826: Yep. It appears that, being in safe districts, they are not willing to wait to see the results of the next election when they might have control of all three branches again. It’s going to be a very interesting year. I do thing they are going to break next March with the government shut down and won’t return until November 3 to see if it should reopen.

  168. 168.

    GregB

    @raven:

    If they cry over a failed House Speaker announcement, how can they deal with Putin, Iran, Al Qaeda, ISIS…….

    I nominate Ben Carson and Jack Bauer for House leadership.

  169. 169.

    Southern Beale

    @D58826:

    But they don’t have the numbers to elect one of their own! They just don’t! They have the numbers to obstruct, that’s it. Are they just going to keep on like this until 2016?

  170. 170.

    Cermet

    @raven: you got it backwards – the thugs just need 29 demorats to elect a thug speaker; the dems get a more moderate speaker in return and the thugs get a speaker that isn’t hostage to the nuttiness nut jobs. Absolutely zero chance a dem gets any thug votes to be speaker so that can’t happen.

  171. 171.

    redshirt

    What a grand chance to strangle the baby in the bathtub!

    We’ll get the “small government” Americans deserve for a prosperous future!

  175. 175.

    Punchy

    They will not accept anyone who is even remotely willing to compromise

    Good to know, since they’ve been elected to a bicameral legislative body that requires both to sign off on all bills. I’m sure this attitude will go swimmingly for the nation going forward.

  176. 176.

    Joe Falco

    My money is on Tom Price for Speaker because when it comes to forcing the US government into default and shutdown, leave it to the Georgian to pull the switch.

  178. 178.

    catclub

    Found at LGM, which was found at Yahoo:

    “Just want to leave this here, it’s the first comment on a Yahoo News article about this:”

    Time to create a fully conservative party out of the GOP, same as the liberals did with the Democrats back in 2006. This party has been Democrat-lite for too long. Oust the old guard and put in someone with a backbone, someone who will shove a bill down our throats even though everyone hates it but conservatives, just like the Democrats did with Obamacare we should be able to do with all of our policy goals. If liberals have a problem, we can just point to 2009-2010 during the healthcare protests.

  181. 181.

    dmsilev

    @Southern Beale: Remember that (a) One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result and (b) many people think large swaths of the House GOP are insane.

  182. 182.

    Anoniminous

    @Roger Moore:

    Sure but the game will be played under the current Rule. Trying to change it is almost impossible, given everything involved.

  183. 183.

    Elie

    @Punchy:

    They don’t seem to care about any damage they cause…in fact, that is a desired goal. Unfortunately, as we know so well, they don’t seem to understand cause and effect and the impact on the country that they say they love so well. Its called cray-cray

  184. 184.

    Amir Khalid

    @Southern Beale:
    If the Teabaggers have the numbers only to obstruct, then obstruct they will. They’ll obstruct what Obama wants if they get a chance, but they’ll obstruct their own party just as eagerly. It’s not like they were ever good at anything but obstructing.

  188. 188.

    SFAW

    @Punchy:

    I’m sure this attitude will go swimmingly for the nation going forward.

    As if they care. They’re fanatics, convinced of their own rectitude and infallibility, and if the nation of moochers needs to be dragged kicking-and-screaming to the Promised Land of the Jahb Creators, then so be it.

    It would be great if I were kidding, or wrong.

  190. 190.

    Jager

    Congressman Walter “Freedom Fries” Jones said yesterday that who ever the new speaker is, they should not have any problems that occur “after 5pm”…and like magic McCarthy steps away.

  191. 191.

    redshirt

    Seriously, do the Wall and K street fatcats control Republicans or not? Because I can’t imagine many of them want a debt default. And yet, we keep marching right up to it and it certainly looks probable now.

    Or are these nutjobs really running free in their insanity?

  193. 193.

    Elie

    @Southern Beale:

    I get that though I pretty much think that this time would not be the case. We’ll see how this plays out… crazy times. It helps that they are truly crazy and unable to actually strategize effectively beyond a certain point. That is exactly why they keep getting bested by the Kenyan Mooslim…

  194. 194.

    Chris

    @Knight of Nothing:
    @gex:

    Right, that’s what I should have said. There aren’t 30 Republicans who will behave sanely, regardless of whether they personally know better. The electoral calculus doesn’t allow it.

  195. 195.

    trollhattan

    @Southern Beale: Somebody has to sit next to Biden during the SOTU. When that day comes I hope they keep a camera on Biden’s mug the whole time so we can watch his reactions to his new classmate.

  196. 196.

    Cervantes

    @catclub:

    I bet it is a majority of the votes

    Yes, a majority of the votes cast; even if not all 435 Members vote.

    Nor does anyone have to vote for the parties’ preferred candidates: each Member can vote for anyone at all.

    And this is all custom: the Constitution does not specify anything, except that the Members of the House get to decide who the Speaker is.

  197. 197.

    redshirt

    @Chris:

    Right, that’s what I should have said. There aren’t 30 Republicans who will behave sanely, regardless of whether they personally know better. The electoral calculus doesn’t allow it.

    We can’t find 30 Congressional Repubs owned by Wall Street?

  198. 198.

    Southern Beale

    Today’s “no shit, Sherlock” moment:

    Kevin McCarthy’s implosion signals that Republicans have a revolution on their hands

    […] There is a revolution happening within the Republican party right now. The establishment’s hold on power is more tenuous than it has been at any time in recent memory. There is no one currently in office that can claim with any credibility that he or she speaks “for” the party as a whole.

    That’s a remarkable development since, for decades, the GOP was known as the party that, eventually, got in line. As in, Republicans tended to nominate the guy for president who was perceived as the runner up the last time around. And, they might grumble but they eventually acceded to the wishes of Congressional leaders like Tom DeLay and Denny Hastert. The Democrats were always the rebellious party; the GOP was the follow-the-rules party.

    The pendulum, it swingeth left….

  199. 199.

    mai naem mobile

    I think they should just have Dennis Hastert back. He can run the whole show from prison and you know he knows how to fvck with teenage boys. Also too,Tom Duhlay is available.

  200. 200.

    Exurban Mom

    It will not be Nancy Smash…she’s too effective for Den issues to get any R support. It’ll be some R who is able to be wingnutty enough to get the requisite votes from the crazy wing of the caucus.

  201. 201.

    D58826

    @Southern Beale: The conventional wisdom is they don’t have the votes for one of their own but they seem to be the balance of power. Who ever is selected will have to bow down to the crazies or they will not get the votes. And remember conventional wisdom says that Trump is a flash in the pan. Conventional wisdom doesn’t count this year.

    There is a report that Nancy will not throw the GOP a life line at the present time. (of course she might be open to a good offer)

  203. 203.

    Elizabelle

    Sadly ironic to hear young nepotist Russert talking about “steering the ship” just after one IRL got steered into hurricane; all hands lost.

    RIP El Faro.

    We need to get rid of politically gerrymandered districts and get some actual representative government, not what we have where the election is won on primary day in too many places. Favors extremism.

    I like California’s system where the two top vote getters meet for the rematch. In some districts, we would get two GOP or two Democrats up against each other, but maybe we could cut down the wingnuttery.

    That the extremism is bringing down the GOP is delightful. Maybe this can carry through to 2016. Safe for Republicans also means safe for a wingnut takeover (a la Eric Cantor); maybe the worst whackdoodles will lose their seats if Democrats step up to run and vote. (I know. Rainbow unicorn time.)

  204. 204.

    MattF

    @Southern Beale: It’s remarkable that Cillizza would write something like that– he’s the king of the ‘politics doesn’t matter’ school of political reporting.

  205. 205.

    RareSanity

    @Elie:

    I beg your pardon?

    In his own gruff way, he’s just saying, “Relax…it’s bad, but not as bad as you’re thinking it is.”

  207. 207.

    ET

    I guess he decided he didn’t want to be a weaker speaker than his predecessor and that leading a group where several of your own members hate you more than the opposition wasn’t something he needed on his resume. That is a more rational choice than any of the freedom coalition or whatever they are called are capable of making.

  209. 209.

    gian

    Speaker Alex Jones?
    Though if you were a young GOP rep you might be afraid to be alone with hastert

  210. 210.

    Gin & Tonic

    Those among us who like to eat can quietly shed a tear, as Paul Prudhomme has passed away at 75.

    I first ate at (and loved) K-Paul’s Louisiana Kitchen probably about 25 years ago, when the food world (and N’Awlins) was very different.

  211. 211.

    catclub

    From the NYT article. It is not the headline, but it is a start:

    “As shocked members left the meeting there was a sense of total disarray, with no clear path forward and no set date for a new vote.”

  215. 215.

    sharl

    @Jager:

    Congressman Walter “Freedom Fries” Jones said yesterday that who ever the new speaker is, they should not have any problems that occur “after 5pm”…and like magic McCarthy steps away.

    Whoa! That sure sounds like a shot fired across the bow.

  216. 216.

    Elizabelle

    @Southern Beale: More from the Chris Cilizza WaPost story:

    If you are Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or John Kasich, what happened on Thursday in Washington should put a lump in your throat. The Republican establishment has been operating for months — really since the rise of Trump — under a belief that, eventually, things will return to “normal” and that the party will put forward an establishment candidate for president. That was the same wrong-headed thinking I heard constantly in the run-up to today’s speaker vote: Yeah, sure, conservatives weren’t sold on McCarthy but the alternatives weren’t any good or serious, and so he would win. Nope.

    This threat to the establishment from the conservative activist base is real. The sooner the establishment realizes it — and the resignation of Boehner/demise of McCarthy should help them get it — the better chance they will have to combat it. But, I also think that the possibility exists that the establishment doesn’t have the ability to put down this revolution. Which is an amazing thing to ponder as the country gets ready to elect a new president in 13 months time.

    Tiger gotta eat.

  217. 217.

    D58826

    Oh FSM I need a very big bucket. Listening to a teaparty GOOPER explaining how he and his fellow principled conservatives are willing to sacrifice their political power in order to preserve Americans and the Constitutions. All everyone has to do is vote for his free market program and invade Syria and America will be back on track. He had to hurry off then because his flying carpet was leaving for his district. This guy is a Webster supporter.

  221. 221.

    Joe Falco

    @Elizabelle: I know. In Georgia, there is still no one on the Democratic side ready to challenge Johnny Isakson for next year even though the Libertarians have already offered up their sacrificial goat.

  222. 222.

    ? Martin

    @D58826:

    The conventional wisdom is they don’t have the votes for one of their own but they seem to be the balance of power. Who ever is selected will have to bow down to the crazies or they will not get the votes. And remember conventional wisdom says that Trump is a flash in the pan. Conventional wisdom doesn’t count this year.

    ‘Conventional wisdom’, by definition, is wrong. If it was right, you’d just call them ‘facts’.

    And I’d put even money that this is why he withdrew: http://www.politico.com/blogs/the-gavel/2015/10/walter-jones-house-leadership-race-no-misdeeds-214500

    That letter just reeks of ‘drop out before someone leaks this thing that we know’.

  223. 223.

    Elie

    It helps that the only people with functioning brains seem to be the Democrats — Nancy Smash and the rest of the O administration. Who knows, maybe they are working behind the scenes with Boehner and/or others? Clearly there is a need to break the back of the tea party in such as way that takes them away from really hurting the country more than they have already.

    Geez. Take a look at the Republican candidates again. They reflect this same dynamic. Think about what they say and their collective weird stupidity. This is shocking, even as we have seen this build up over the years. Untethered to reality and completely unashamed by that.

  224. 224.

    Amir Khalid

    @Southern Beale:
    Unless Böhner wants to leave the House ohne Speaker, he can’t really step down before his successor is elected. Not, of course, that one would expect this to mitigate the Teabaggers’ craziness.

  227. 227.

    Roger Moore

    @redshirt:

    Seriously, do the Wall and K street fatcats control Republicans or not?

    Not. Or, at the very least, there are enough certifiably crazy fat cats who also want Congress to drive the country off a cliff to protect the Congresscritters who are trying to do so.

  230. 230.

    raven

    @MazeDancer: Thanks, I’m all over them. I’m going ahead with the middle option, our vet (who I trust) at $2500 or so over the university at $5000+.

  231. 231.

    RK

    If everyone is so shocked it must be that McCarthy’s affair with Ellmers is true and was going to be revealed.

  232. 232.

    randy khan

    I’m having a hard time figuring out what the alternatives are for the Republicans. Is there actually anyone in the caucus who can get votes from the incurably insane part of the caucus and the possibly-curable part of the caucus?

    If I thought any of the players were capable of 11-dimensional chess, I’d say we should consider whether Boehner and McCarthy cooked up a plan to prove that the Orange One is the best they can do, but that seems, uh, highly unlikely given the parties involved.

  234. 234.

    lamh36

    so is McCarthy the last of the GOP “young guns” to go down in flames since PBO elected…

  237. 237.

    Elie

    @RareSanity:

    Ok. Thought so. thnks

    That said, I don’t think its just me being a bit extreme in my reaction. I just have no sense of confidence that these people won’t really mess things up in some unfixable way. That was my thinking on the administration and others digging into modeling alternatives and reading the fine print on some of the Constitutionally available tools that might need to be employed if these folks go too far…. I’m still not convinced that we can count on them for any sanity or balance, much less respect for the Constitution and the impact on our country.

  239. 239.

    Elizabelle

    NY Times alert: Russian cruise missiles aimed at Syria have crashed in Iran. Out in the rural areas, but still …

  240. 240.

    Roger Moore

    @Elizabelle:

    I like California’s system where the two top vote getters meet for the rematch.

    As a Californian, I do not. It would be great if there were a limit on the number of candidates from each party, but there isn’t. The net result is that the more popular party can potentially split the vote enough ways that two candidates from the less popular party wind up in the final. There is endless potential for rat fucking, and it’s mostly good luck (and Republican disarray) that has prevented it from showing up so far.

  241. 241.

    SFAW

    @MomSense:

    And lots of buttah!

    Of course. What kind of Mainer do you think I am? Next you’ll be asking if I eat more than the tail and legs. (Or claws. Whatever the amateurs stick with.)

  244. 244.

    redshirt

    @Elizabelle:

    NY Times alert: Russian cruise missiles aimed at Syria have crashed in Iran. Out in the rural areas, but still …

    That’s quite a miss.

    But no worries, they’re both friends.

  246. 246.

    RareSanity

    @D58826:

    yep 60 gallons of genuine Kansas City bourbon

    Son…if it ain’t made in Kentucky, it’s just whiskey/whisky.

    *I don’t really believe this, it just sounded funny in my head hearing these words said with stereotypical Foghorn Leghorn southern accent.

  248. 248.

    D58826

    And if recent history is any guide the GOP will not pay any price in the 2016 election cycle.

  249. 249.

    MattF

    @randy khan: I agree. The nearest analogy I’ve been able to think of is the neo-cons assuming that chaos in Iraq was a good thing because– what could go wrong?

  250. 250.

    Hungry Joe

    I see no reason to believe the GOP will suffer from any of this. Even a shutdown. 1) The election is more than a year away, and a few things will happen between now and then; 2) half — or more — of the blame will go to the tyrant Obama for “refusing to compromise”; 3) they swept in 2014, after the last shutdown; 4) locked-in — till 2020 — gerrymanders.

    All this crap about the end of the GOP … please. Wishful thinking. They control the House, the Senate, and most of the states. Rump party? We wish. But we don’t get.

  251. 251.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    I get these Daily 202 emails from the WaPo (not sure how I got on the mailing list) but today’s subject headline is “Former Hillary aide says she should be less scripted” – proving that no matter how much actual disarray the Republicans are in, this town will always ignore it and find the disarray the Democrats are in even if it’s non-existent.

  255. 255.

    RareSanity

    @Elie:

    I would say to wait and see how the situation plays out before getting too stressed.

    Boehner is going to remain as Speaker until a new one is elected, which means that crucial bills can still pass with the help of Democratic votes. It’s not fire and brimstone yet.

  256. 256.

    Southern Beale

    @Elizabelle:

    But, I also think that the possibility exists that the establishment doesn’t have the ability to put down this revolution

    .

    That’s amazing because I always thought the Republican establishment created the Tea Party monster, and it just got out of their control.

  257. 257.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Srv:

    Trump as speaker, impeach Obama and Biden, and we’re in. No coup required

    I’d place a double impeachment pretty high on the Coup Spectrum, but that’s just me.

  260. 260.

    Elie

    @redshirt:

    Yeah, its when one of these crashes in Turkey or any Sunni area that Russia will get begin to understand why most people with brains don’t want to kick the hornets nest. (The US was without brains during the Iraq/Aghanistan wars and also partially brainless when we removed Kadafi)

  263. 263.

    Roger Moore

    @Elizabelle:

    Can the Democrats institute rules to stop that from happening?

    I think they can informally strong-arm people into dropping out, but they can’t put any kind of formal limit on it. The whole point of the jungle primary is to take control away from the political parties, so it would be pretty useless if the parties could bypass it by having a party primary and only letting one or two candidates into the race.

  264. 264.

    burnspbesq

    @lamh36:

    Thought I read a thought balloon somewhere that Steve Scalise was thinking about running for speaker.

    My money has been on Scalise for the last two weeks.

  266. 266.

    Elizabelle

    Isn’t there a 3 or 4 day weekend coming up? Fairfax County schoolkids have tomorrow off, and Monday.

    Congresscritters gonna get an earful in their home districts.

  267. 267.

    redshirt

    @Elie: Turkey is already getting messed with. There have been multiple breaches of Turkish airspace by Russian jets and that could be a real bad issue if it continues.

  271. 271.

    David Koch

    .@MarkSanford tells @Emma_Dumain it was “mayhem.” McCarthy was “calm, cool and collected,” his wife was there, members were crying. @CQnow

    — Roll Call (@rollcall) October 8, 2015

  272. 272.

    bemused

    @raven:

    It’s important to be diligent in the recovery period. My husband put a temporary ramp on back steps so dog(s) wouldn’t have to go up and down any steps. In the beginning only out to potty on a leash. Vet/surgeon gives a schedule of gradual increase in walking (on leash), distance and figure eights. The dogs did pretty well. The 7 year old dog with both knees done at age 2 and 3 had some trouble with one knee and had a pin removed. She has stiffness in that leg but it doesn’t stop her from running around with our younger dog. She can’t keep up the pace with the very speedy two year old but all that exercise with the younger dog has kept her weight at good level and her leg muscles fit. She and my husband take their glucosamine and fish oil together every morning.

  273. 273.

    Elie

    @redshirt:

    Yes, I had heard that. But it would escalate to a much greater level should anything crash into Turkey. Can’t say that any Shia interests outside of Assad’s in Syria would be too happy either. Lebanon is right there close by…

  275. 275.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @randy khan:
    The way I see it, there are four ways this could go.

    1) The ‘moderate’ Republicans give in and vote for a Teabagger, in which case we are in deep shit. A Teabagger Speaker will have the power to prevent a debt ceiling raise from being voted on, and will consider that a good thing.

    2) Some Republican cuts a deal with Nancy. All she has to do is have a bunch of Democrats not show up to vote, and the moderate wins. It doesn’t even take that many. Crude, off-the-top-of-my-head numbers, twenty-two. The only thing that would make that worth Nancy’s while would be for him to let go of the Hastert Rule, at which point Nancy would damn near be the de facto Speaker. She can deliver her whole caucus, and thirty Republicans for most sane bills.

    3) Sixty or more Republicans abstain as a protest vote. Nancy becomes Speaker. It seems unlikely, but Hell, who knows?

    4) They can’t elect a new Speaker at all. Boehner, now having made it publicly plain he has nothing to lose and is fed up with this shit, remains Speaker for a long time. He is certain to be less extremist than he has been (he’s actually abused his power for the benefit of the hard right to an unprecedented extent), but how much less?

  277. 277.

    raven

    @bemused: Lil Bit has gotten 5 meds in her eyes twice a day for the 7 years we have had her. I don’t miss. Our vet stressed the rehab and knows I’ll be on the case so that part is covered. The hard part is that we rescued her and don’t really know how old she is. She acts like a pup and always has.

  278. 278.

    burnspbesq

    @Amir Khalid:

    How about Brendan Rodgers for Speaker? He’s available, and he can’t be any worse than any of the others being mentioned as possibilities.

  279. 279.

    Cervantes

    @Elizabelle:

    NY Times alert: Russian cruise missiles aimed at Syria have crashed in Iran. Out in the rural areas, but still …

    What sources does the NYT have?

    Any confirmation by the Iranians or anyone else?

  280. 280.

    Elie

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Its #1 that would have to be countered or blocked…

    The only upside (such as it would be), is that it would destroy the Republican Party and most certainly the Tea Party. But not before a lot of damage would be done to the US credit rating and any confidence in our “leadership” around the world. It would also cost some rich folks a lot of money.

  281. 281.

    David Koch

    clydetheslyde ‏@clydetheslyde 32m32 minutes ago

    Next time Conservatives challenge you to name one Hillary Clinton accomplishment, simply answer: “Kevin McCarthy”. ;)

    25 retweets 41 favorites

  282. 282.

    redshirt

    @Elie:

    The only upside (such as it would be), is that it would destroy the Republican Party and most certainly the Tea Party. But not before a lot of damage would be done to the US credit rating and any confidence in our “leadership” around the world. It would also cost some rich folks a lot of money.

    I wish I could believe this to be true, but I think rather they could send the country entirely into the ditch and enough people will blame Obama that a “both sides are to blame” viewpoint would win the day.

    Besides 2006 and 2008, when have Republicans ever paid the price for screwing up the country?

  283. 283.

    David Koch

    This American Adam ‏@adamconner 2h2 hours ago Washington, DC

    Well the Benghazi Committee got its first political scalp today.

    25 retweets 14 favorites

  284. 284.

    F

    A sampling of the headlines:

    Los Angeles Times – Kevin McCarthy bows out of speaker’s race, leaving House GOP in disarray
    USA TODAY – Kevin McCarthy abruptly quits speaker race, leaving Republicans in disarray
    NPR – McCarthy Drops Out Of Speaker Race, Throwing GOP Leadership Into Chaos
    Reuters – House Republicans in chaos as favorite McCarthy quits speaker race

    :)

  285. 285.

    Elizabelle

    @Cervantes: US officials, presumably at a NATO conference with Secretary Ash Carter. CNN apparently broke the story.

    ETA: described as “senior US officials” and “The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss military intelligence.”

    From the NYTimes:

    Iranian state media made no immediate mention of the reports on Thursday, but one semi-official outlet, the Fars News Agency, noted the CNN report and called it an example of American propaganda against the Russians. They also called it “psychological warfare.”

    Iranian Twitter and Facebook users did not immediately note any explosions in the area between the Caspian Sea and the Iraqi border.

  286. 286.

    SFAW

    @F:

    Buncha amateurs.

    I’m waiting for the Infowars exclusive “McCarthy withdraws due to threats from Clinton’s hit-squad.”

  287. 287.

    bemused

    @raven:

    The first dog who passed away two years ago at age 13 had her surgery at U of Minn vet hospital when she was four years old. That was the only place doing this surgery at the time, about $2,000. She already had arthritis but if she hadn’t had the surgery, she would have barely been able to walk much longer. She lived nine years after that able to run even if only for short bursts. We got a puppy when she was nine which helped her stay more fit, puppy insisted they play..alot, and she was a pretty happy dog even with the arthritis.

    By the time our 7 year old had to have surgery, we didn’t have to travel as far. A vet surgeon traveled to vet clinics just repairing knees so much shorter trip for us and cost about the same. Even with the one knee not doing as well, first knee was perfect, and we don’t know why even though we were very careful sticking to the recovery schedule, she is a happy, active dog.

  288. 288.

    trollhattan

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Awww, the turducken man!

    Sorry to hear of his passing but to be honest, anybody who’s familiar with his prodigious physique will be pondering how the hell he made it to 75. R.I.P Mister P.

  289. 289.

    Elie

    @redshirt:

    But Obama has been very successful. If all the blaming the Democrats or Obama had worked, he would not have been nearly as successful. They are in part crazed because they truly have not been able to block or undo any of this. So yeah, their would be some of the stuff you speak of, but I truly believe that would be a step way too far that would have too much collateral damage to not very negatively impact them.

  293. 293.

    redshirt

    @Elie: I think Obama has succeeded in spite of the enormous obstacles placed in front of him. Because he is a once in a hundred year politician.

    But I was talking electoral consequences. We have plenty of recent evidence (2010, 2012, 2014) that despite utterly fucking with the stability of the USA, Repubs actually gain political power. So I don’t know why 2016 would be different if the government gets shut down again.

    They’ll just spin-spin-spin until the wheel rests on “A pox on both their houses”.

  294. 294.

    Elizabelle

    @Elie: The media and how it frames politics is poisonous. I’m not surprised so many people are down on Obama and the Democrats.

    CNN has, like, Tourette’s. If you hear “Hillary Clinton” you immediately also hear the anchor or reporter say “email scandal” and “unpopular.”

    Maybe they’ve toned it down, but it was egregious for a while. The media is not wired for Democrats. They’re a La Brea Tar Pits.

  295. 295.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    @raven: Our big yellow mutt blew out his knee when he was 18 months old (we won the lottery on his personality, but he has some crappy joint structure).

    Because he was young and a big dog who loved to play, we sprung for a tibial-plateau-leveling osteotomy (TPLO).

    Worked wonders; we were able to do agility classes with him for a few years after that. 6 years later he’s still doing okay; his knee looks like a horror show (he needed a second surgery to stabilize his kneecap, so he’s got two big scars, and it’s all lumpy), and it’s clear he’s got some arthritis, but overall his mobility is still good. Of course, he hates going to the vet now.

    It was expensive (want to say in the neighborhood of $2500) with a long recovery (six or seven weeks), during which we had to keep him from down except for potty breaks. Slept on the floor with him, broke down or blocked any furniture he might want to jump on. For smaller/older dogs, there are other procedures that are less radical and expensive, but I can’t speak to them personally.

  296. 296.

    Elie

    On the Russian thing, what is their endgame? If Assad stays in power, they will have to stay in Syria to make sure that stays the case. When does that worm start to turn when they become the enemy, not just Assad? They (the Russians) have a bunch of Islamic central Asian former client states that are very unstable but have been their allies. This is in part to shore them up by sending a message that Russia will back their corrupt leadership? These are not all Shia led regions like Syria, which puts them into a collision course with Sunni extremists. Lordy, didn’t they learn from their own experience in Aghanistan? Didn’t they see what happened to the US?

  297. 297.

    bemused

    @raven:

    Yeah, the rehab is key just like with their humans.

    I think, iirc, the surgery had changed a bit and improved from the time our first dog had it almost ten years ago. Our present dog had hers five/six years ago so maybe even better now.

    Sometimes I think of that $6,000 plus those knees cost us but there really was no choice for us. The dogs were young but even if they had been a bit older, we knew we couldn’t watch them get inevitably get worse and worse and that they would have a better life which they definitely have!

  299. 299.

    redshirt

    @Elie: I think there’s a Chechen factor in play for Russia, as it’s been reported that there’s plenty of Chechens within ISIS. As such, I can’t overly blame them for getting involved, as they have an active insurgency within their own borders, and this is one way of addressing it. Not saying it’s a good way, but it’s a method.

  300. 300.

    Elie

    @Elizabelle:

    No, believe me I get that. I just believe that there is a limit. I may be wrong, but this is so directly about Republicans and their leadership, — well — we’ll see.

    It is good to remember that the Republicans have not fundamentally upended O’s agenda, though they have made it hard and nasty.

  302. 302.

    bemused

    @Grumpy Code Monkey:

    Our vet showed us one or two other types of surgery, one was sort of a pulley type system as I remember or visualized it, but told us they weren’t done as much anymore and didn’t have as good outcomes as the TPLO he recommended.

    Keeping the active dogs subdued isn’t easy but ours were pretty cooperative as long as they were leashed. The day they could go off leash we managed to keep them to short walks with gradual increases. Our vet had a patient, a Great Dane that had to have both knees done. That’s a huge dog to lift in and out of vehicles right after surgery.

  303. 303.

    Elie

    @redshirt:

    Yeah, its a good way to have to start swatting hornets in your on home next. They really want to chance that — making Russian interests/territory a focus for ISIS? These countries are already iffy — unstable and corrupt. It just seemed an odd time to be running into the burning building for a country with a few challenges of their own. He actually might have a form of Obama derangement syndrome, forcing him to do something he might have thought better of which will end in some sort problem.

  304. 304.

    randy khan

    @Frankensteinbeck: I find it interesting (but not surprising) that your choices don’t include the Republicans finding a non-crazy who can get the votes. Of the choices you suggest, (1) is a disaster in every way, probably even for the Republican Party; (2) seems to guarantee that the moderate will be primaried, along with every R who goes along with the charade (even a committee chair slot probably isn’t worth that); (3) would be delightful, although I have a hard time seeing it happen; and (4) is beginning to look like the best bet, whether the Orange One wants it or not.

  305. 305.

    Roger Moore

    @trollhattan:

    BBC is only citing “unnamed US officials.”

    Not anymore. Now they’re saying that an Iranian news agency reported a crash of an unknown flying object in a village near Azerbaijan.

  308. 308.

    SFAW

    @Paul in KY:

    More likely she was thinking of Dom DeLuise. Justin (if I recall) didn’t look anything like M. Prudhomme, but it’s been something like 45 years since I saw a picture of him.

  309. 309.

    Gin & Tonic

    @trollhattan: The funny thing is, in the first incarnation of K-Paul’s the kitchen was *microscopic*. I don’t know how he managed in there.

  310. 310.

    Elie

    @redshirt:

    From op-ed in NYT

    And what is on Kremlin’s mind is not Syria, or even Ukraine, but Central Asia, a part of the post-Soviet space in which authoritarian leaders are aging, economies are stagnating, millions of restless young people are unemployed and eager to emigrate, and radical Islam is on the rise. Russia sees itself as the guarantor of stability in the region, but it fears instability coming. Central Asia today reminds the Kremlin of the Middle East a decade ago. Could Syria teach America to watch its words and mind its business when the next crisis comes?

  315. 315.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @randy khan:
    If a ‘moderate’ cuts a quiet deal and gets elected because Democrats don’t vote rather than vote for him, I don’t see him as any more vulnerable than usual to a primary. The nutcases don’t understand the system enough to make sense of that. They’ll think he’s a squish and be mad that the Democrats are getting their way in the House. That’s going to be their viewpoint regardless.

  316. 316.

    Tom Q

    @redshirt: You can’t include 2012 in that list of elections that went well for the GOP. They lost the presidency, lost Senate seats (in a year VERY dufficult for Dems), and lost nearly 10 House seats despite the aggressive gerrymander (Dems actually won the House popular vote).

    It’s clearly true they didn’t pay for the 2013 shutdown, but that was because (1) the crash of the Obamacare web site wiped the shutdown out of media coverage and (2) 2014 was a midterm, where Dems do fatally poorly in turnout.

    Having this amount of chaos in governing, coupled with the dominance of the crazy in the primaries, AND a presidential year electorate, could set up a perfect storm that does far more damage to the GOP than fatalists like yourself seem to deem possible.

  317. 317.

    MomSense

    @Elie:

    This is a no win situation for Putin. He just doesn’t know that yet or is too arrogant to think he could fail.

  318. 318.

    Chris

    From the French version of the Onion: “Vladimir Putin Asks Turkey To Stop Locating Its Airspace In The Way Of Russian Aircraft.”

  319. 319.

    Suzanne

    I am LOVING this rumor that McCarthy has been banging Renee Ellmers for years.

    GOD. This morning has been GREAT.
    I need a cigarette after this.
    AHHHHHHH.

  320. 320.

    Elie

    @MomSense:

    He is forgetting a cardinal rule that the US is getting spanked about: Once you intervene, you change things and you don’t know, therefore cannot control, outcomes from so many unknowns. It is chaos theory or the tipping point or both. There is no “clean” intervention — esp in the middle East. Both Bushes waded into the Middle East thinking they could do a slam dunk and bug out but what each did in his own way, was highlight American weakness. We couldn’t control shit and indeed, didn’t even know all the shit that was going to come down. Everytime we tried to fix things, we instead made them worse. Obama also got schooled in Libya, removing Kadafi and then seeing the whole country come apart during his watch. This stuff is non-linear… and you cannot apply enough energy to the problem to fix it — those kind of resources just do not exist…Empire aint what it used to be!

  321. 321.

    Peale

    @MomSense: I guess the best thing I can say about Putin is that it took him 4 years to get involved directly in Syria, which makes him still more level headed than a lot of our senators who’ve wanted us to send in Seal Team Commando Berets 1 Rangers since the day the first protester showed up.

  322. 322.

    Elie

    @MomSense:

    Leaders are frequently too arrogant to think they can fail, but in this case, Putin might actually think that he has to based on the op-ed I cited above. He is looking ahead and seeing trouble on his borders and being that his only tool is a hammer, all his problems are necessarily nails.

    While on one hand the US can sit back and wait for him to get run up a tree, it is way more iffy than that (going back to my previous comment about not knowing what the eff can happen next). It makes an already complex and dangerous situation a lot more by adding more trip wires… Yes, Putin is mistaken, but its too late — Russia is in the mix.

  323. 323.

    Cervantes

    @Elizabelle:

    “senior US officials” and “The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss military intelligence.”

    @trollhattan:

    BBC is only citing “unnamed US officials.”

    And still no confirmation from anyone else?

    Given recent events, how does that strike you? (No pun intended.)

  324. 324.

    bemused

    McCarthy said the House may have to hit rock bottom.

    They’re crying in the cloakroom.

    Talk on msnbc that some are begging Paul Ryan to run for speaker and he is undecided. The beggars saying he is the only one that can unite the House. Do they seriously believe Ryan or anyone similar can tame the teaparty animals?

    What a freaking mess the GOP is in.

  326. 326.

    Elie

    @bemused:

    Gosh, what I wouldn’t give to see a tape of these fkers cryin!

    Yeah, they ARE a mess, but they are CRA-ZEE so we have to approach them carefully, not make too many sudden or threatening moves until we get thorazine into some blow darts…

  327. 327.

    bemused

    @Elie:

    I’d like to know who the bawlers are. I can see a photo of them with the caption “There’s no crying in the cloakroom!”

    Read that Boehner has called Ryan twice begging him to run.

    Gotta be a lot of running in circles, wailing and pulling out hair. It would be deliciously funny if it wasn’t so dangerous for all of us.

  329. 329.

    Applejinx

    My worry is that they want to get in a position where a total nutbar is Speaker, at which point some of the other Teahadis (House Representatives! not outsiders!) can go WOLVERIIINEEESSS! and attempt to physically murder President Obama and Vice-President Biden.

    They think that way: technically it would ‘work’, so it’d be this combination of following the rules and a bloody coup. I’m absolutely certain they figure if they got one Teahadi to be speaker, and then DIFFERENT OTHER teahadis commit multiple murder, there’s no possible way it would count as a criminal conspiracy and violent coup to overthrow the government.

    That’s my worry, there. I think they see it as a loophole, so at all costs they’re gonna get a teahadi for Speaker.

    Let’s not, ok?

  332. 332.

    AnonPhenom

    Guess I’ll ask this again:

    Serious question.
    It’s mid-November and the Republicans have settled on, I dunno, Speaker Steve Scalise. The choice prompts several establishment types (Peter King) to head towards the door. Some announce as Independents but some come knocking on the Dem door as Blue Dogs.
    Your reaction is….

    What are the chances Pelosi et al will put the obvious power play aside and tell them “you’ll really be happier starting your own party. Call joe Lieberman? He’ll help you guys out”

  333. 333.

    Elizabelle

    @AnonPhenom: Dead thread, and a good question. Raise it again on an open evening thread (or maybe you have, already)? I just got back and catching up… great question, though.

  335. 335.

    PaulW

    What lunatic will they burp up now?

    That is a serious question. Who remains that can be a “sane” even for this GOP candidate for the House to rally around as Speaker?

    Everyone else with a marquee name are whacknuts.

    the House leadership is made up of grand-standers eager to play to the Fox Not-News talking heads (Chaefttz), people with ties to racist organizations (Scalise), people with ties to sexist organizations (Webster), and people you wouldn’t trust to work the on-off light switch at a civic center (Gohmert). The ones with ANY cache with the media – Paul “Death Budget” Ryan says hi – are smartly keeping their name off the ballot.

    And that’s because anybody “sane” hired for the job is going to run into the same mess Boehner did with his own crazed Far Right back-benchers who have made it very clear they do not want ANYONE who actually wants to make things work in their own branch of government.

    Oy. Blog flog about it here http://noticeatrend.blogspot.com/2015/10/in-gop-madhouse-last-one-standing-will.html

  336. 336.

    PaulW

    @Applejinx:

    My worry is that they want to get in a position where a total nutbar is Speaker, at which point some of the other Teahadis (House Representatives! not outsiders!) can go WOLVERIIINEEESSS! and attempt to physically murder President Obama and Vice-President Biden.

    Why commit murder and make martyrs of Obama/Biden when they can easily try to Impeach both Obama and Biden at the same time, and then claim 25th Amendment incapacity on them both and have the Speaker serve as Acting President?

    Granted, there is no way the Executive branch will take orders from the Speaker, and the Joint Chiefs would never go along with it, but the objective here by the Republicans has always been to delegitimize Obama’s administration. It doesn’t even matter if it works in the real world: what they want to do is get any opening possible to nuke Obamacare and enact their draconian tax-cut budgets, two things the GOP-held Senate would clearly go along with. And then they’ll happily make sure their allies in the courts will make those changes stick.

  337. 337.

    Theodore Wirth

    It behooves me to ponder why Irish US pols and commentators have totally sold out on the oppressive trials and tribulations of their ancestors since forever. I can only assume that money changes everything.

  338. 338.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @Theodore Wirth:

    It behooves me to ponder why Irish US pols and commentators have totally sold out on the oppressive trials and tribulations of their ancestors since forever.

    #NotAllIrishPols

    But there’s clearly cohort who got their Levittown houses and college educations through massive state redistribution of wealth, got elevated into the country-club set, and have been tugging at the ladder ever since.

  339. 339.

    Cervantes

    @Elizabelle:

    A little Wag the Doggish after the MSF tragedy …

    At least we can say this much: given that we still have no idea how our bombs could have landed on that hospital in Kunduz, it’s interesting to see how much and how quickly our anonymous types are willing to say they know about Russian missiles coming down in Iran.

  341. 341.

    MCA1

    @Southern Beale: One possible way to do that would be putting together a raft of moderate-y bills, guaranteed to get 65% public support, that they’re willing to vote for if the Speaker of their choice (Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Chris Gibson, whoever) is installed, and then hitting the airwaves to promote them as a package. Promise the End of Gridlock. When R’s can’t get their shit together enough to go along with it (and they won’t – heck, Pelosi could bring forth a bunch of tax cuts and they couldn’t do it), trumpet it far and wide and run on it, pointing at the R’s as the reason we can’t have nice things.

  342. 342.

    Paul in KY

    @SFAW: Justin was a bit heavy, but facially nothing like Mr. Pudhomme. He was the Louisiana chef on TV though (years ago).

    Seemed like a cool guy to party with.

  345. 345.

    Paul in KY

    @PaulW: Pres. Obama/VP Biden would be ‘martyrs’, but if they could conceivably make it convincingly look like an accident, the nutbar would be President.

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