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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

with the Kraken taking a plea, the Cheese stands alone.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

Let me file that under fuck it.

The revolution will be supervised.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

He really is that stupid.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

“That’s what the insurrection act is for!”

Fight them, without becoming them!

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Second rate reporter says what?

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

“Cheese and Kraken paired together for the appetizer trial.”

T R E 4 5 O N

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Sunday Morning Open Thread

Sunday Morning Open Thread

by Anne Laurie|  October 11, 20155:53 am| 131 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Garden Chats, Open Threads

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From the NYTimes:

That Dame Julie Andrews — star of stage and screen and, as of late, author of dozens of children’s books — is an avid rose gardener probably comes as no surprise. Warm, eminently capable and delightfully practical, Andrews is easy to picture toiling away in her garden.

This week, she celebrated both her 80th birthday… and was honored at the New York Botanical Garden’s annual Rose Dinner. In the midst of it all, Andrews was more than happy to share some of what she’s learned in her life as a rosarian.

Know your nursery.
“I can’t say that I’m an enormously knowledgeable botanist, but I know what I love and I know how to make a garden. It depends on what the garden provides and what would suit it best. It’s just hopefully, developing an eye and practicing a great deal. Go to your nurseries, learn. Get all the books you can get about growing roses.”…

Accept your limitations.
“I’d love to have a really flourishing vegetable garden, and I’d love to have a better area for a rose garden or a cutting garden, but I don’t. You have to develop a garden in the way that it’s meant to be developed. Is it rocky, is it wooded, is it this or that? So this particular garden that I’m in is a joy and I have lovely, beautiful trees that I enjoy, but I don’t have the room for the vegetable garden and a big rose garden, which I’d love.”…

Speaking of learning to enjoy one’s situation, however unpromising, Joe Biden would have to be other than human not to get a little kick out of scenarios like the one described in his hometown paper:

They came from up and down the East Coast, representing national media outlets. The small contingent of photographers and cameramen from network and cable news outlets spent Saturday camped outside Vice President Joe Biden’s Delaware home…

The first had arrived before sunrise for a live, on-scene report at 7 a.m. The most diligent remained until late afternoon, breaking up the boredom with coffee and energy drinks. For most, this was the second day of a weekend stakeout prompted by a White House advisory that reported Biden would be spending the weekend at home…

Just after 11 a.m., the pack gave chase as the vice president’s motorcade pulled out of the driveway, only to later find themselves watching a cross-country meet where Biden cheered on his granddaughter.

After his return home, they resumed their roadside perch. But gradually, one by one, they peeled off, lulled into a drowsy stupor by the warm sunshine on a early autumn day.

Suddenly, action!

The motorcade drove off again, quickly followed the remaining media, desperate to keep up.

Minutes later, the Biden family settled on the grass at the Brandywine YMCA’s Hanby Outdoor Center, where they cheered on a five-on-five flag football game, starring the vice president’s grandson…

***********
Apart from panting after breaking news, what’s on the agenda for the day?

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Reader Interactions

131Comments

  1. 1.

    Michael Bersin

    October 11, 2015 at 6:09 am

    Yesterday my spouse who was on the way back from a grocery run called me to let me know that there was an anti-Obama demonstration on an overpass over the U.S. highway that runs by our town here in west central Missouri. I grabbed my camera and audio gear, drove over to the protest, took photos and interviewed their spokesperson:

    The Bill of Rights applies to everyone, right?

    At least one of the demonstrators was openly carrying a firearm. I’m curious about the thought processes that guide an individual to openly carry a firearm at a demonstration. In the several hundred vigils, marches and protests I attended starting in 2003 I don’t ever recall a participant openly carrying a firearm. And in that past environment I vividly remember several of the vocal threats of violence from some of the passersby.

    Today, though, it’s probably safe to say that a majority of those who are opposed to the views of these overpass demonstrators probably don’t openly carry a firearm, let alone own one. If they were to engage, it would be with more free speech, maybe with logically counterarguments, maybe, at the basest level, consisting of hurled insults. Still, it’s free speech. So what was that one individual arming himself for?

    Is it the fear of a random occurrence not associated with participating in a protest? Or, could this be an attempt at intimidation? Like the present reality of campaign finance, does more firepower mean more free speech? If you’re not armed would you engage someone with an opposing view if they were armed? And if you were both armed and the engagement became heated? Does it escalate? In that absurd world the lucky individual with better combat shooter training or a sawed off shotgun wins the debate.

    The spokesperson for the group was polite and willingly engaged in conversation.

    Toward the end of our conversation he mentioned that he had encountered some resistance to his public protests from local law enforcement in another city. Apparently it was easily resolved – the First Amendment applies to everyone. I didn’t ask him where he was twelve years ago when protesters where restricted to “free speech zones” far from the office holders they wished to protest.

  2. 2.

    Baud

    October 11, 2015 at 6:11 am

    a White House advisory that reported Biden would be spending the weekend at home

    It’s cute that the White House feels the need to warn people.

  3. 3.

    Amir Khalid

    October 11, 2015 at 6:20 am

    Ah, the joys of doorstepping. Entire days of waiting and waiting that yield … no story. Nada. Maybe Joe is letting this candidacy business drag on just to yank the national media’s chain.

  4. 4.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 6:24 am

    Been reading Michael Pollan’s “Second Nature” and just finished the part on his dalliance with heritage roses. People seem to become rather lustful with an absolute sensual desire for them. Sir Graham Stuart Thomas said of Madame Hardy that they had “just the suspicion of flesh, pink in the half open buds, emerging from their long calyces, and the flower open cupped, rapidly becoming flat, the outer petals reflexing in a most beautiful manner, leaving the center almost concave of pure white, with a small green eye… sumptuous and ravishing.” with a scent that is “intense, intoxicating, delicious,”

    So I’ll be planting some in the spring.

  5. 5.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    October 11, 2015 at 6:27 am

    Open thread, eh? This is Bee Rock in Griffith Park though I think it kinda sorta looks like a Cocker Spaniel. Well, if you squint real hard. As I mentioned in the last thread, I got a new camera and I broke it in yesterday. I ignored the 100 degree heat, it’s a dry heat.

  6. 6.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 6:30 am

    @Michael Bersin:

    Is it the fear of a random occurrence not associated with participating in a protest? Or, could this be an attempt at intimidation?

    Yes to both, but mostly it is a totem. “I am of the Gun Clan.”

  7. 7.

    Baud

    October 11, 2015 at 6:33 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    It would be a point in his favor.

  8. 8.

    Baud

    October 11, 2015 at 6:37 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I first read that as, you broke your camera after one day. I felt the pain.

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 6:38 am

    Trucker shortage spurs push for dropping age to drive

    Or maybe you could just try offering higher pay?

  10. 10.

    Satby

    October 11, 2015 at 6:40 am

    Restoring my Kindle after resetting it because it was crashing every time I was in the browser. Seems to have helped, but what a PIA

  11. 11.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    October 11, 2015 at 6:40 am

    @Baud: No, it survived the 5 hour hike and it takes some great pics. It’s my first non-point and shoot camera since the OM-1 I got as a teen. I set it for manual focus and I have to get used to doing that again. Another pic, this time the Old LA Zoo.

  12. 12.

    Michael Bersin

    October 11, 2015 at 6:41 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    When I related the story on social media one friend suggested that I should have called the local police and reported that someone was on the overpass with a weapon.

    While I was at the demonstration two different city police vehicles drove by – due to the location they’d have to go out of their way to do so.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    October 11, 2015 at 6:43 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Crazy talk.

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    What did you get?

  14. 14.

    Baud

    October 11, 2015 at 6:45 am

    @Michael Bersin:

    Obama wasn’t in Missouri, was he?

  15. 15.

    Satby

    October 11, 2015 at 6:48 am

    @Baud: I read it that way too and thought how much that sun, breaking something the first time you use it. Glad we were both wrong.

    Baud 2016

  16. 16.

    Satby

    October 11, 2015 at 6:50 am

    Still working on getting the link to my etsy store working here. I hate rebuilding stuff after wiping and reinstalling the OS.

  17. 17.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    October 11, 2015 at 6:50 am

    @Baud: Samsung NX-500.

    @Baud: He was in LA part of the day.

  18. 18.

    Satby

    October 11, 2015 at 6:51 am

    Testing

  19. 19.

    Satby

    October 11, 2015 at 6:52 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: nope, that would cut into profits.

  20. 20.

    Michael Bersin

    October 11, 2015 at 6:55 am

    @Baud:

    Nope, not even close. Maybe they just saw him on the Faux News Channel talking about the sadness of all those dead students and decided they had to reinforce the network’s opposing viewpoint.

    This was the first right wingnut demonstration I’ve encountered in town. It’s a university town, so there have been a number of protest events with more of an enlightenment perspective.

  21. 21.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 6:58 am

    @Michael Bersin: Sad to say, Missouri is now an open carry state. I am unsure of how to respond to these idiots, but I feel a deep need to say something. But I can hear the dead end conversation already. Something like,

    “What are you afraid of?”
    “Nothing.”
    “Than why are you carrying?”
    “It’s my right!”
    “It’s your right to needlessly endanger everyone around you?”

    And it would only go down hill from there. So I’m trying to come up with something bumper sticker short I can put on a t-shirt or my truck. Something like, “It takes a real pussy to carry a gun” only not so insulting (or long). Or even better something that just points and laughs at them, like…. I don’t know. Mustang Bobby could probably come up with something. I’ve been rattling it around in my brain for a while and still have nothing.

  22. 22.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 7:04 am

    @Baud: @Satby: Dollars to donuts the congress critters pushing for this are the same ones complaining the loudest about wages being flat in the “Obama recovery”.

  23. 23.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 7:10 am

    Tamir Rice shooting justified, say expert reports, as grand jury process continues

    I got nothing to say other than that by that logic every single open carry activist should be shot on sight. Oh, wait a minute, they’re not black. If they were, they would be.

  24. 24.

    WereBear

    October 11, 2015 at 7:12 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I utterly agree; I used to be a rabid rosarian, and the old heritage roses also smell so good you have to have garden benches near them.

  25. 25.

    Baud

    October 11, 2015 at 7:19 am

    So I’m trying to come up with something bumper sticker short I can put on a t-shirt or my truck. Something like, “It takes a real pu$$y to carry a gun” only not so insulting (or long).

    “I don’t need a gun. My dick works fine.”

  26. 26.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 11, 2015 at 7:30 am

    @Baud: In 2008, I had my car keyed because I had an Obama bumper sticker, so I think I’ll skip this one.

    Detroit girlhood wisdom: A solid number of those people flashing a gun are unstable. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be flashing a gun.

  27. 27.

    Cervantes

    October 11, 2015 at 7:30 am

    @Baud:

    Baud 2016!

  28. 28.

    beltane

    October 11, 2015 at 7:31 am

    there was an anti-Obama demonstration on an overpass

    My first reaction to reading this was an uncharitable one.

    @OzarkHillbilly: Madame Hardy is lovely and lives up to her hype. If you live in a climate that is somewhat warmer than my northen Vermont zone 4, I’d also recommend any of the Bourbon roses because they are…just…WOW.

  29. 29.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 11, 2015 at 7:37 am

    These demonstrators are still so freaked-out that a black man is in the White House that even when he’s thousands of miles away, they occasionally feel the urge to gather somewhere, wave guns around, and howl at the moon. That’s sad.

  30. 30.

    NotMax

    October 11, 2015 at 7:38 am

    Weird.

    Actor Randy Quaid arrested attempting to cross U.S. border

  31. 31.

    WereBear

    October 11, 2015 at 7:41 am

    @Satby: I have a more permanent sad; my Oyster books app will not survive into 2016.

    I understand there are other alternatives, but they will not be as beautiful or as user friendly.

    It’s a big deal to me. I’m a huge reader and have a less-than-huge monetary situation.

  32. 32.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 8:09 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: I’ve had “Black Lives Matter” on my truck for almost a year now. I fully expected to lose some glass (some thought, living out here, worse might happen) but so far nobody out here has said anything one way or the other. With guns it is different and I am very aware that what I do could well affect my wife. While I am not afraid of any direct confrontation, I do worry about someone threatening my wife. I won’t allow it. As far as keying my truck, I probably wouldn’t even notice.

  33. 33.

    Boudica

    October 11, 2015 at 8:17 am

    @WereBear: Local library, Overdrive, free

  34. 34.

    Kay

    October 11, 2015 at 8:23 am

    This is great:

    Gov. Jerry Brown of California signed legislation on Saturday designed to increase electoral participation by automatically registering eligible state voters when they obtain a driver’s license. It puts California at the forefront of efforts across the country to increase electoral participation at a time when many states have added new hurdles, like voter identification laws.

    Democrats don’t control enough states but boy, California is a good one to have. It’s just so big and they’re always out front. I also love Jerry Brown’s vetoes. He vetoed a standardized testing bill and told the legislature they will never reach “testing nirvana” and he vetoed a bunch of new criminal laws telling them there are too many criminal laws already. He really does know what he wants and he isn’t afraid to say it :)

  35. 35.

    SFAW

    October 11, 2015 at 8:26 am

    Mets lose to Dodgers, 5-2, and lose SS Ruben Tejada for the rest of the playoffs, due to a questionable DP-breakup slide by Chase “Yeah, I’m a dirty player, so-the-fuck WHAT?” Utley.

    Meanwhile Terry “Not a Moron, but I play one on TV – no, wait, I AM a Moron” Collins continues to prove that sometimes it’s not the opposing team that’s the biggest impediment to a team’s success. With any luck, Mets GM Sandy Alderson will find a REAL manager before next season – preferably in the next 24 hours. Failing that, perhaps he could bring back Zombie Gil Hodges.

    Fucking Collins is useless. Sometimes he makes Matt Williams look like a genius.

    Apologies for the extreme “OT in an OT” comment, but I’ve been a Mets fan for about 60 years, and having a manager as incompetent as Collins annoys the crap out of me.

  36. 36.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 8:27 am

    The good folks at UT-Austin have decided on the perfect representative for their protest of “campus carry”

    http://www.chron.com/local/education/campus-chronicles/article/campus-carry-ut-austin-dildo-dildos-texas-6563276.php?cmpid=fb-desktop

  37. 37.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    October 11, 2015 at 8:30 am

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    In 2008, I had my car keyed because I had an Obama bumper sticker, so I think I’ll skip this one.

    Detroit girlhood wisdom: A solid number of those people flashing a gun are unstable. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be flashing a gun.

    I’m near Detroit, work in an industrial environment, and can attest that most of my colleagues are unshakably, militantly pro-gun. They strongly resist any suggestion that changing, or even enforcing gun laws would lead to fewer shooting deaths. “Places with more guns are safer” and so on. And they tend to hoard firearms and ammo. Generally not dicks individually but they retain this delusion that only having more guns can protect their guns.
    Regarding Obama bumper stickers, when I hired in at my current job I had an Obama 2012 sticker on my car and one of the managers saw it. I saw him catch sight of it and when he turned to glare at me I could tell I was in for a rough time. He harassed and hazed me for the next 18 months. It was a drag until I got fed up and tipped off his boss that we were about to have it out if the abuse didn’t stop. We’re ‘cool’ now to the extent of keeping our distance but it was a bad year and a half.
    It used to be, as least as I recall, that people on opposite political sides could talk rationally and agree to disagree on their differences. Now the sides are so far separated that all that makes it across the gap is shouting.

  38. 38.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 8:34 am

    @SFAW:

    I’ve been a Mets fan for about 60 years,

    Ohhh you poor thing.

  39. 39.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 8:37 am

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:
    The statistics are very clear and the trend is unmistakable, fewer Americans own guns and those that do own guns buy more and more. This is scary to me in part because many guns get stolen and sold on the street but more so because those people with lots and lots and lots of guns appear to me to be unstable and at some point are going to want to prove they needed them all along.

  40. 40.

    debbie

    October 11, 2015 at 8:41 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    “It’s your right to needlessly endanger everyone around you?”

    Oh, but they won’t. They’ve seen Rambo so they know how to do it right.

    I think it’s time for legislation holding gun owners responsible for injuries to bystanders incurred while the gun owner is defending him/herself. Someone gets hit with a stray bullet, it’s an automatic felony (which I believe would also lose them their right to a gun).

    If criminals are charged, why not gun owners who criminally shoot innocent people?

  41. 41.

    debbie

    October 11, 2015 at 8:44 am

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    No bumper stickers for me since my windshield was smashed in 1974 because of my bumper sticker supporting the Timberlane teachers’ strike in New Hampshire.

  42. 42.

    beltane

    October 11, 2015 at 8:48 am

    @Schlemazel: A lot of these guys also tend to have “issues” with women, and are often divorced, dumped, etc. and pretty angry about it Also, gun hoarders tend to be homebodies with few outside interests. This also applies to female gun hoarders. My husband has lots of co-workers like this, people who spend every last bit of their disposable income on firearm related purchases. Lets face it, well-adjusted people with a rich and varied social life and a curiosity about the outside world have far more uses for their money and time than spending it all on guns and ammo.

  43. 43.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    October 11, 2015 at 8:48 am

    @Schlemazel:
    Many gun owners ignore the consequences of their weapons being misused. I used to own a Ruger 9mm pistol. When my apartment was burgled the first thing I did was lock it in the trunk of the car and take it to a gun shop to sell. Because thieves often return, and they did.
    No more guns for us.
    My dad has a large accumulation of firearms purchased for hunting, and inherited. They’re locked in a gun safe mortared into the basement floor. I dunno what’s going to happen when those are passed down to me. The lever action rifle my great-grandfather bought 100 years ago? I can’t exactly just sell that off, but I don’t want it in my home.

  44. 44.

    SFAW

    October 11, 2015 at 8:53 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Could be worse – I could be a Cubs fan (futility aspect) or a fan of any Philadelphia team (because they’re the worst).

    Hey, at least I was able to grab my patch of Shea infield grass in 1969. (No, not really, just wishful thinking on my part.)

  45. 45.

    Phylllis

    October 11, 2015 at 8:56 am

    @WereBear: Same here. I have the Kindle app on my iPad as well, but it’s nowhere near as good a reading experience on the device as Oyster.

  46. 46.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 8:59 am

    @debbie:

    Oh, but they won’t. They’ve seen Rambo so they know how to do it right.

    I know, that’s why the conversation goes down from there. It is one thing to accept the dangers of owning guns for oneself (I do, and I do) and quite another to push those dangers onto others. I am just flat out adamantly opposed to all forms of carry without cause.

  47. 47.

    Michael Bersin

    October 11, 2015 at 9:01 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I parked a hundred yards from the overpass, started my digital audio recorder (on a lanyard), put on my media ID (also on a lanyard) and started photographing the demonstration using a 200 mm lens. That’s when I noted the open carry (that’s now another good reason to justify owning a 200 mm lens). The demonstrators watched me photograph them from a distance, the spokesperson posing with one of his anti-Obama signs. Then I approached them…

  48. 48.

    debbie

    October 11, 2015 at 9:03 am

    Dammit, if the New York Times can screw up an apostrophe, is there anything left to value in America?

    The Atlanta rapper Young Thug. His day’s are self-directed, frenetic, prone to detours. He may not be the only renegade left in hip-hop, but he’s certainly the most intriguing.

  49. 49.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 9:04 am

    PROGRAM ALERT!

    CBS Sunday Morning has an interview with Chuckie Koch.

  50. 50.

    Phylllis

    October 11, 2015 at 9:05 am

    I do enjoy the CBS Sunday Morning show. However, today’s program includes what appear to be non-ironic interviews with both Charles Koch (about how difficult it is to be an unliked billionaire) and uber-huckster Phil McGraw. Ugh.

  51. 51.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 11, 2015 at 9:06 am

    @WereBear:
    @Phylllis:

    What is it specifically that makes the reading experience so much better on an Oyster app than a Kindle app? Do you think the Google Play that’s supposed to replace it will offer the same features?

  52. 52.

    Satby

    October 11, 2015 at 9:06 am

    @WereBear: That really sux, sorry.

  53. 53.

    debbie

    October 11, 2015 at 9:09 am

    @Schlemazel:

    Joe Nocera has an op-ed on the Kochs today:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/opinion/sunday/corporate-welfare-for-the-kochs.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

    When I asked a Koch Industries spokesman about the company’s willingness to take advantage of tax incentives and other government goodies, he gave me the standard response to such queries. “Koch Industries has consistently opposed and actively lobbied against all forms of corporate welfare, including those we currently benefit from,” read an emailed statement. “With that said, we will not put ourselves and our employees at a competitive disadvantage in the current marketplace.” In other words, the Kochs believe there is nothing hypocritical about employing government subsidies they oppose.

  54. 54.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 9:09 am

    @SFAW: I have had a sinking feeling that this may be the year Cub fans get to rub it in our (Cards fans) faces. We are long overdue for it.

  55. 55.

    ThresherK

    October 11, 2015 at 9:09 am

    Glad to see Julie getting some ink just for being the wonderful Julie Andrews. But I don’t know that “Englishwoman gardens roses” is much in the way of news!

  56. 56.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 9:11 am

    @debbie:
    Over at DailyKOS there is a regular feature that should get more attention. It highlights some of the stupid people that shoot themselves and/or others with their freedom sticks. It also chronically the continued murder of babies by babies who have access to guns (youngest shooter was under 2 years old).

    It would be a perfect antidote to “The Armed Citizen” column the NRA publishes. I think if people were constantly confronted with the endless drumbeat of accidents, misfires and general stupidity it would change minds.

  57. 57.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 9:13 am

    @debbie:

    “With that said, we will not put ourselves and our employees at a competitive disadvantage in the current marketplace.”

    How CONVENIENT

  58. 58.

    Satby

    October 11, 2015 at 9:15 am

    @Schlemazel: Nope. I wish it would change minds, but nope. The gun cult is special snowflakism raised to eleventy billion; they are the smart capable, soon-to-be-heros in their own fantasy world and bad things will and can never happen to them. Because they are so special!

  59. 59.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 11, 2015 at 9:19 am

    @Schlemazel:

    Our own valued commenter Southern Beale provides a similar service on her invaluable blog. It tends to be Tennessee-centric, partly because that’s where SB lives, but also, arguably, because disproportionately vast numbers of these incidents take place in that state.

  60. 60.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 9:21 am

    @Satby:
    I assume those people are unreachable but normal people, we need to harden hearts against the ammosexuals.

    BTW – do I remember right that you asked for the bluecheese cheesecake recipe? If so, did you see when I posted it?

  61. 61.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 9:22 am

    @Schlemazel:

    I think if people were constantly confronted

    The gun nuts just insist it could never happen to them.

  62. 62.

    Honus

    October 11, 2015 at 9:23 am

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: when j grew up back in West Virginia a body that took out a gun for anything but hunting or target practice would be considered a dangerous fool.

  63. 63.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 9:24 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    I wish she (I believe SB is a she) would alert us to those posts here but maybe I should visit there more often. After I hit the lotto maybe I’ll fund a site to try and compile the entire national nightmare weekly.

    @OzarkHillbilly: similar to above. I don’t think we could win over them but we could make them socially unacceptable and marginalize them to remove political clout

  64. 64.

    benw

    October 11, 2015 at 9:27 am

    @debbie:

    is there anything left to value in America?

    Nothing whatsoever, burn it all down and replace it with a barter-and-trade socialist commune system free of fossil fuels and guns.

    SANDERS 2016

  65. 65.

    Honus

    October 11, 2015 at 9:27 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: the mets have only been around for 53 years.

  66. 66.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 11, 2015 at 9:32 am

    @Schlemazel:

    I get Southern Beale in my email, so it takes no effort on my part to follow her.

  67. 67.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 9:35 am

    @benw:
    Yes, thats exactly what Bernie is saying.

    Seriously, I’m not sold on Sanders but that take is ridiculous. Bernie is more into Swedish or German levels of socialism.

  68. 68.

    dedc79

    October 11, 2015 at 9:35 am

    @SFAW: I watched the clip of the slide again this morning and the call still makes no more sense than it did last night.

    I don’t know that he could’ve turned the double play, even without the slide, but both runners should have been ruled out for interference (or at least Utley at 2nd). How do the umps just reverse their decision on the neighborhood play rule?

    And whatever the rule says, it’s hard to understand how someone could be safe at 2nd base without ever actually touching 2nd base.

  69. 69.

    Phylllis

    October 11, 2015 at 9:37 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: For me, I find Oyster more easily readable on the tablet. I keep fiddling with the Kindle app display options, but always find myself not quite satisfied with the screen display.

  70. 70.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 9:38 am

    @Michael Bersin: Despite their protests, the firearms are of course meant to intimidate. They’re also magical talismans. The guy who compared the gun cult to Moloch was onto something. They think that if you own a gun it can’t be used against you and other counterfactuals. It’s deeply tied into white supremacist notions which, again, are much more popular than we liberal white people like to acknowledge. Bearing arms in public has traditionally been the legal privilege of an elevated social class*. These are people who desperately need someone to look down upon.

    *-a privilege that developed, modern countries took away when they developed notions such as equality under the law and came to see public safety as a major governmental concern

  71. 71.

    SFAW

    October 11, 2015 at 9:38 am

    @Honus:

    I was wondering when someone would pick that up. Although, one could argue that, technically, it’s 54. But that’s 54 seasons, so it becomes a question of semantics.

  72. 72.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 9:39 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: holy fucknuts, ya think?

    what will these assholes think of next

  73. 73.

    benw

    October 11, 2015 at 9:43 am

    @Schlemazel: Maybe ridiculous on purpose? Sorry, I would have added a /snark label but I’m distracted by my daughter handing my ass to me in “Mastermind”

    @SFAW: Ain’t no OT in an OT! Specially not for a good old fashioned baseball rant.

  74. 74.

    dedc79

    October 11, 2015 at 9:45 am

    @SFAW: I wasn’t around at the time, but my understanding is that those first few years felt like an eternity.

    Hopefully the team finds a way to bounce back from this though. They’ll have to do it without Tejada though.

  75. 75.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 9:46 am

    @benw:
    sorry, its hard around here to identify the snark direction.

  76. 76.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 9:47 am

    @Schlemazel: The comments are vomit inducing, as per usual.

    Glad the kids are fighting back, though.

  77. 77.

    Gator90

    October 11, 2015 at 9:48 am

    Basking in the Gators’ victory and the Dolphins’ bye week.

  78. 78.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 9:50 am

    @debbie: They don’t even charge parents who leave unlocked, loaded guns around and their kids die.

    Leave a kid in a car, let a kid get into a pool, let a kid trip and hit their head, then you go to prison. But a gun? Oh, that was an “accident”.

    Because a felony would take away their right to carry guns (who cares about the dead kid), and make them little better than common Negroes, amirite?

  79. 79.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 9:51 am

    @Another Holocene Human:
    There are only a couple of places I read comments. Here, Wonkette (for the luz), TNCs and that about it. Too often when I mistakenly read comments I want to buy a gun myself!

    EDIT: I should note that includes many liberal sites where I want to just slap some folks and scream GET OFF MY SIDE IDIOT!

  80. 80.

    SFAW

    October 11, 2015 at 9:52 am

    @dedc79:
    I guess it’s debatable that it was interference, I tend to fall on the “it was” side.

    No, Tejada could not have turned the DP. Had Murphy’s toss “led the receiver,” instead of pulling a Geno Smith, Tejada would have been facing the right way, possibly turned it, end of inning, all’s well.

    If Utley interfered, my read of the rule is that both he and the batter could be out. However, that rule seems to imply that it’s the initial fielding opportunity, which was Murphy’s, not Tejada’s. So, long story longer – I’m not an expert, so should probably not pretend that I know the answer.

    As far as Utley not being out: I think it’s possible that Colon could have stepped on the bag when play resumed, and Utley might have been declared out. Also, persons smarter than I about this stuff talk about the “neighborhood rule,” and that even if Tejada did not physically contact the base – although his toe was no more than an inch away, from the vids, and may possibly have been touching – Utley would get called out on the initial try.

    The umps fucked up, Collins fucked up (which is nothing new, unfortunately), Utley’s a dick, and Tejada’s gone. Flores is not nearly the fielder that Tejada is, don’t know who can take his place.

    I am hopeful that Harvey and Matz are healthy enough to throw great games, but we’ll have to see. The Mets are back to their mid-June “oh, am I supposed to actually HIT that ball with this stick?” form, and rely too much on home runs.

  81. 81.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 9:53 am

    @beltane: I know a couple who is really into shooting and guns. They are liberal and childfree. The husband is more the driving force, but going to the shooting gallery is a big part of their social life. There is a lot of ammo in the house. Both have myriad other hobbies. They’re pretty geeky sorts and I could see the geeky appeal of guns except that I associate them with death–suicide, homicide, horrible accidents–and don’t want to be anywhere near them.

    Also, I think I had plenty of lead exposure when I was working in electronics lab and don’t need more from shooting guns.

  82. 82.

    Thor Heyerdahl

    October 11, 2015 at 9:57 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    And it would only go down hill from there. So I’m trying to come up with something bumper sticker short I can put on a t-shirt or my truck. Something like, “It takes a real pu$$y to carry a gun” only not so insulting (or long).

    First thing that came to my head but it’s too long for a bumper sticker (two lines)

    “It takes a real man to carry a gun” [note – real man would be about have the size of the rest of the text]
    “It takes a real man to use a gun responsibly” [real man would be bigger than the rest of the text]

  83. 83.

    SFAW

    October 11, 2015 at 9:57 am

    @dedc79:

    Yeah, the first few years were not great. I was still relatively young, didn’t follow them a ton.

    1969 was great, I can still see Cleon catching the last out of the Series.

    I’ll keep my fingers crossed, hope the Mets don’t need their bullpen, and hope that Collins gets fired after the season.

  84. 84.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 10:00 am

    @Satby: I’ll probably get flamed for saying this here, but it’s very similar to the unicorn herding fantasies of pit bull rescuers. The problem is getting worse with all the highly edited TV claiming pit bulls are just slobber teddies. Human fatalities due to pit bulls in the US have gone way up in the last five years. Most of the killed are owners or their family (spouses, grandchildren, nieces/nephews). While still taking out five figures of other peoples’ pets every year. (What, killing poodles, beagles, and cats isn’t what people buy pits for? They buy them for wuv? Okay.)

    And yes they are still holding pit fights. Stop lying. North Central Florida is a breeding/fighting epicenter. Must admit, some of those pits are beautiful, beautiful dogs. Would not own one (or have one near me).

    eta: the pits in this region are probably part Catahoula, which makes them handsome, as the Boston pits are ugly as sin (yes, it’s Boston, US, from Stafford, UK)

  85. 85.

    Doug R

    October 11, 2015 at 10:02 am

    @Honus: so the Mariners have lots more time then.

  86. 86.

    Michael Bersin

    October 11, 2015 at 10:02 am

    @Another Holocene Human:

    What struck me more than the open carry was the choice of flags that the two individuals who were holding flags made. The demonstrators had lashed a number of American flags, a couple of Gadsden flags, one variation of an American flag I didn’t recognize and a confederate battle flag to the overpass chain link fence. They had a number of choices for flags they could hold and wave. Each of the two was holding and waving the confederate battle flag.

    One of my social media friends asked, upon seeing the photo, “What are they celebrating, the KKK or treason?”

  87. 87.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 10:04 am

    @Honus: Heh. Good catch.

  88. 88.

    Mike E

    October 11, 2015 at 10:05 am

    @SFAW: I feel your pain, being a Phila fan, having cried moar tears of sorrow than joy…but hate your team because, reasons.

    Ain’t October baseball the best?

  89. 89.

    Liberal With Attitude

    October 11, 2015 at 10:06 am

    @Baud:

    “I don’t need a gun. My dick works fine.”

    See, its stuff like that, that fuels the !Baud!16! campaign.

  90. 90.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 10:07 am

    @benw: A lot of people (including myself) will be out of work real quick in that system. And what will you do with people who are unable to perform hard physical labor, which will be necessary, since there’s no money and hence no way to redistribute wealth, which would be socialist, barter is not terribly socialist I think? Or those who just suck at farm work? Or those who live in parts of the country that must import food but were previously exporting ‘stuff’ that belonged to the highly developed capitalist, fossil fuel dependent, high technology economy? Without fossil fuels, how will they even migrate to the midwest or Appalachia? The midwest will be in desperate need of laborers and yields will go down, but will lack housing stock so there will be a bit of a boom there. You could send building materials up the Mississippi. Of course, that’s a bit tricky without fossil fuels. Nuclear reactor?

    eta: I’m good at weeding, since I guess farming is going organic that would be good. Wondering what happens to my clients, though. They can’t hunch over plantings for hours.

  91. 91.

    otmar

    October 11, 2015 at 10:07 am

    Municipal elections in Vienna today. After the refugee chaos in Austria we all expect a shift to the right.

    No fun.

    But please be aware that the FPÖ is about at the same level of xenophobia as the GOP.

  92. 92.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 10:12 am

    @Schlemazel: Got me too. Maybe I’ve been around too many so-called liberals who actually thought that way.

  93. 93.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 10:15 am

    @Schlemazel: *cough* Rawstory *cough*

    I wade in there occasionally. There are some good commenters there and the mods are really good about nuking anti-Black racists. Unfortunately, they’ve been weak about nuking MRAs, who have trolled up a lot of threads. And there’s a core group of zealot atheists who blame “religion” for all of the world’s problems as if it’s not yet another gig put on by … humans.

    I found the Bill Cosby threads fascinating, though. And less triggery than (ugh) Gawker.

  94. 94.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 10:17 am

    @Thor Heyerdahl: A few years back Colt had an ad campaign for the AR-15, just a picture of one with these words underneath it: “Get your man card punched”

    I always wanted to run a counter ad campaign saying, “If you needed one of these to get your man card? It didn’t work.”

  95. 95.

    Amir Khalid

    October 11, 2015 at 10:18 am

    @otmar:
    What’s the current situation re refugees? How many are in Austria right now, and how many more are coming? Is there still a lot of sympathy among Austrians towards them?
    ETA: By the way, what does the F in FPÖ stand for? I reckon the PÖ part is Partei Österreich.

  96. 96.

    satby

    October 11, 2015 at 10:18 am

    @Schlemazel: I did see the recipe and saved it, thanks!

  97. 97.

    BGK

    October 11, 2015 at 10:22 am

    @Phylllis:

    Because my self-loathing knows no bounds, I watched both segments.

    They were as bad as you could’ve expected.

    At least 300-lbs-of-Texas-horse-flop-in-a-suit “Dr.” Phil knows his success is mostly a shuck, and didn’t push back too hard. Portraying Charles Koch as an avuncular grandpa who just happens to have civic interests was vomit-worthy.

  98. 98.

    Xenos

    October 11, 2015 at 10:22 am

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Bearing arms in public has traditionally been the legal privilege of an elevated social class*.

    A Very Good Point.

    Also, keep in mind that Germany has fairly firm guns and weapons laws, and it is what they use to keep the neo-Nazis in check. Those guys can not collect together for more than a few minutes without collecting and stockpiling illegal weapons. It is like a fixation to them. And when the police roll up an organized group they invariably find lots of unregistered guns, pipe bombs, and the like that are used to put the leaders behind bars for a few years.

    Just a thought.

  99. 99.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 10:22 am

    @Michael Bersin: I saw a guy the other day with American and Confederate flags on his person. Maybe, I though, this is one of those dipshits who thinks the Confederate Battle Flag is the “Southern” flag and it’s just brainless tribalism. But since that massacre in SC, it’s been popular for some of the country bumpkins to affix a Rebel flag to their pickup truck and wave it around town. Now some people have countered with American flags. So how could you not know it’s about taking sides in that war? Alachua and Marion county commissions have both had debate and motions on their confederate monuments in the last few weeks. I think Marion flies the battle flag but is going to replace it with a different Confederate flag, like that makes it better. Alachua is relocating the Kirby Smith statue to a museum and there’s talk of putting a monument to the Olustee massacre next to it, which would be awesome.

    When you see Gadsden flags and Confederate flags together I think it’s both a theme of anti-government protest and the confluence of some deeply troubling fringe ideas like 3%ers, Sovereign Citizens, and the like. It’s the notion of the legitimacy of breaking into armed rebellion if they don’t get their way. It’s certainly not about democracy, because they aren’t guaranteed to win. In fact, if they are definitionally the minority, then the majority will outvote them and their interests every time.

  100. 100.

    Botsplainer

    October 11, 2015 at 10:23 am

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Every time I think I want to simply disassemble and scrap all mine, something stupid happens. A few weeks ago it was the client pulling one on me and my secretary (me finding out the next day that his name has come known to prosecutors in some unsolved gang. murders). Yesterday, it was about the kid who went out with my youngest daughter one time five years ago; he’s banned from contact with his parents and the local university over several gun related incidents, and been escorted from our parish property several times by cops (last time about a month ago), stalks several young women from there. He’s also persona non grata at a second Orthodox parish in town (he’s a convert). I defriended him about 4 years ago. Yesterday, he friend requested me and my youngest, creeping me right the hell out. I actually filled up the magazine and loaded a pistol to keep at bedside as my house is a solid 10 minutes from dispatch and I’m living alone for the next month, as wife is traveling away. Daughter is fine – she lives in a guarded building in another city, and has a high grade taser always close by.

    I have no problem with a standup fight, can take a punch and probably beat any assailant senseless (I got skills). I even have confidence in de-escalating a situation with an armed criminal, like my armed (now former) client.

    What I can’t deal with is an obsessed, mentally ill young man with a gun. He worries me, a lot, with regard to his obsessions and the fact that some of his behaviors have occurred while armed.

  101. 101.

    satby

    October 11, 2015 at 10:23 am

    @Michael Bersin: One of the numbnuts in my tiny backwater has started to fly the American flag proudly outside his house, with the treason flag of the Confederacy right below it. I have no idea what he thinks he’s conveying by that, other than what a deeply stupid person he is.

  102. 102.

    benw

    October 11, 2015 at 10:25 am

    @Another Holocene Human: all good questions. The solution to most problems in my hippie paradise are solved by hugs and flowers. /snarkthistimeIswear!

  103. 103.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 10:25 am

    @Another Holocene Human:

    And there’s a core group of zealot atheists who blame “religion” for all of the world’s problems as if it’s not yet another gig put on by … humans.

    This. Many times this. And I’m a hard core atheist.

  104. 104.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 10:26 am

    @Botsplainer: From “parish” I take it you’re living in THE most violent state in the country and … I don’t really blame you.

  105. 105.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 10:27 am

    @Another Holocene Human:
    For some reason I got banned there & repeated emails asking why have been ignored. I have only been banned in 2 places, there and the now defunct “D-list blogger” where the host took great exception to my pointing out to a commentor (who was close friends w host) that thinking happy thoughts does not cure depression. At least there I knew why.

  106. 106.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 10:27 am

    @benw: I’m allergic to pollen and my weird ASD neurological issues can make hugs very uncomfortable. Now what?

  107. 107.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 10:28 am

    @Schlemazel: Wow. That’s nuts.

  108. 108.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 10:29 am

    @satby: GOOD! Hope you enjoy it.

  109. 109.

    satby

    October 11, 2015 at 10:29 am

    @Another Holocene Human: FYI, I have a rescued pit mix. And he’s a cuddlebug. No flame, just fact, because that debate is approaching a religious one, and I stay out of those.

  110. 110.

    Michael Bersin

    October 11, 2015 at 10:30 am

    @Another Holocene Human:

    They did have a “We are the 3%” sign posted on the chain link fence. Ah, militia fetishists…

  111. 111.

    bystander

    October 11, 2015 at 10:30 am

    @Liberal With Attitude: And kittens!

    I’m not interested enough to research it, but IIRC our common law did hold people responsible for what happens with their guns and “honest and reasonable” was not an excuse. There was no privilege for misusing a firearm. There was no privilege to use a firearm against another person except to protect oneself. There was certainly no privilege to use a firearm in defense of chattel. But thanks to genuine radicals who legislate radical departures from our common law, we keep wandering off into uncharted territory.

  112. 112.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 11, 2015 at 10:37 am

    @Botsplainer:

    What I can’t deal with is an obsessed, mentally ill young man with a gun.

    I feel your fear. My ex married a violent alcoholic gun nut who threatened me (and had others do so too) more than once (even threatened my parents) because I had the nerve to get a restraining order between him and my sons. Never got one between him and me cause I kinda hoped he would come after me. Fortunately, he never did and is now dead.

  113. 113.

    Schlemazel

    October 11, 2015 at 10:37 am

    SNL can still bring the heat!

    See their ad for guns:
    http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/watch-snl-mocks-americas-love-affair-with-guns-in-brutal-ad-that-only-the-nra-could-love/

  114. 114.

    benw

    October 11, 2015 at 10:39 am

    @Another Holocene Human: hm. do you like hackysack?

  115. 115.

    shell

    October 11, 2015 at 10:43 am

    @BGK: Will love to see Charlie Pierce’s Monday morning take on that. Dr Phil still as a daytime talk show; not just reruns on the O Channel?

  116. 116.

    otmar

    October 11, 2015 at 10:56 am

    @Amir Khalid: I don’t know the numbers. Most of them are just passing through on the way to Germany. IIRC, about 5% are applying for asylum here.

    There are still many volunteers helping out. Most things are getting routine now, even train service to Germany is starting up again.

    The main fear here seems to be that there is still a huge number of refugees stuck in Turkey or the Balkans. And if Germany decides to stop their current policy of openness, that might have severe consequences on us.

  117. 117.

    Auntie Anne

    October 11, 2015 at 11:06 am

    @WereBear: @WereBear: Me too. I’m trying to finish my Oyster reading list, then I thought I’d give Scribd a shot. It has a 30-day free trial, and the interface on my tablet looks good. Did you see somewhere that the reason Oyster was valuable is for its interface?

  118. 118.

    rikyrah

    October 11, 2015 at 11:17 am

    @Satby:
    I feel you. Had to that myself.

  119. 119.

    rikyrah

    October 11, 2015 at 11:19 am

    @Kay:
    I read that good news too. But thanks for bringing it Kay.

  120. 120.

    rikyrah

    October 11, 2015 at 11:21 am

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:
    Why can’t you sell it to a collector?

  121. 121.

    ruemara

    October 11, 2015 at 11:23 am

    @Another Holocene Human: correction. They don’t charge white parents. Plenty of black families who’ve had this happen have gone to jail.

    Also, Werebear, you can get a cheap Kindle for reading only. That, plus overdrive have kept me in books from the library.

  122. 122.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 11:34 am

    @bystander: They keep tearing up the common law tradition in the name of racial segregation (yeah. that one was fascinating) and gun sales. Unintended consequences. Or intended consequences. Violent crime decreasing is a disaster for the NRA’s backers, but SYG increases homicide rates. Score.

  123. 123.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 11, 2015 at 11:39 am

    @ruemara: Well, yeah. Making felons of a huge percentage of the Black population is a feature, not a bug. Cue NRA newsletters warning of the “coming race war” from the 1980s.

  124. 124.

    Botsplainer

    October 11, 2015 at 11:41 am

    @Another Holocene Human:

    “Parish” as in church. We’re nominally Eadtern Orthodox.

  125. 125.

    Calouste

    October 11, 2015 at 11:43 am

    @Amir Khalid: The F in FPÖ stands for Freiheitliche. In Europe, just like in the US, when people put “Freedom” in a name, they most of the time mean “Fascism”.

  126. 126.

    El Caganer

    October 11, 2015 at 11:45 am

    If you feel it’s important that you be strapped when taking your kids to the zoo, there’s something very, very wrong with you.

  127. 127.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    October 11, 2015 at 12:08 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Why can’t you sell it to a collector?

    It’s a beat-up hunting rifle. Rare and valuable in mint condition but common in heavily used shape. Its value is that Great Grandpa hunted with it in the ’20s. To him it was just another tool, but now it’s an heirloom.
    I’m kinda going through that with my Mom’s stuff. She died 10 weeks ago and I’m in charge of dispersing her estate. Including 4 cartons of carefully stored and unlabeled photos. They all meant a lot to her or she’d have tossed them because she wasn’t a ‘saver’, but we have no idea who these people are. Or where this Depression butter dish came from, etc. When a person is gone the context for their possessions goes as well, except in exceptional cases.
    That’s why all I’m leaving when I die is half of a map to where the gold is buried.

  128. 128.

    Cain

    October 11, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    @Kay:
    I’m proud to say that Oregon was the first. Which makes GOTV painless for the most part. Now we just have to actually get them to vote. I’m not sure how any easier it can get. We have vote by mail. You literally just have to put it in the mail. At least in Portland people do enjoy voting.

  129. 129.

    Cain

    October 11, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    @satby:

    @Michael Bersin: One of the numbnuts in my tiny backwater has started to fly the American flag proudly outside his house, with the treason flag of the Confederacy right below it. I have no idea what he thinks he’s conveying by that, other than what a deeply stupid person he is.

    Get a bunch of friends in white hoods, and show up at his house asking why he is a traitor with a traitor flag and have him explain to you why he is a good citizen.
    (I am joking of course, but sometimes such things are great within the confines of ones mind)

  130. 130.

    Cain

    October 11, 2015 at 1:10 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    and me cause I kinda hoped he would come after me. Fortunately, he never did and is now dead.

    What happened? Morbid curiosity.

  131. 131.

    Nutella

    October 11, 2015 at 3:41 pm

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Despite their protests, the firearms are of course meant to intimidate. They’re also magical talismans.

    Very similar to the giant SUVs, especially Hummmers, and giant pickup trucks. They are meant to intimidate other drivers and are also magical talismans. Just like owning a gun means you’re much more likely to be shot, driving one of those tall vehicles means you’re more likely to be injured in an accident. Rollovers are common and dangerous but their drivers all firmly believe that their giant vehicles will keep them safe. Just like their guns will.

    No evidence to the contrary is accepted.

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