The CNN live feed here is working for me.
Finding the Guardian liveblog most helpful.
Mid-debate personal opinion: HRClinton is doing really well. O’Malley is better than I feared, and seems to be signalling he’d take the VP slot if “someone” were to offer. Sanders is doing a good job of pushing his socialist agenda — one somehow gets the feeling that he knows his chance of being the nominee is not very high. Webb is angling for Secretary of Defense (spoiler: not gonna happen) and Chafee is as big a joke as his worst enemy might have predicted…
trnc
Don Lemon is on, so I guess the clown show came to town after all.
MomSense
Great #blacklivesmatter answer Bernie.
Baud
Obstruction!
Bobby Thomson
Pretty much.
Baud
All good answers so far.
Elizabelle
Hello.
Don Lemon = Missing jetliner.
Glad it’s been mostly Anderson C.
Arm The Homeless
Man, I forgot how good Bernie is when he gets a wheelhouse question. Clinton is bringing me back into the fold. She is really good at debates. I’ve forgotten that since 2008.
Elizabelle
I like our team.
dmsilev
@Elizabelle: At least Lemon is just introducing “viewers like you”, not asking his own questions.
Elizabelle
Glass-Steagall gets applause here.
Nicole
@Arm The Homeless: I think she’s also better than she was in 2008. Her speech rhythm sounds more relaxed than it did eight years ago. I’m sure she’s rehearsed to within an inch of her life, but she doesn’t sound rehearsed.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Yes.
Arm The Homeless
Olds in Panama City kvetching about Clinton at the hotel bar. I think they know I am laughing at them, but the gin has me ten feet tall and geritol-proof
benw
@Baud: And no black hole so far, either. We’re all winners!
trnc
Not sure why no one seems to know the easy answer to ” but don’t all lives matter?” is “sure, they all matter, but it’s already understood white lives matter. That’s why armed white men are often arrested safely while unarmed black men are shot.”
Arm The Homeless
@benw:
Sweet Meteor of Death confirmed?
Elizabelle
Bernie: Fraud is a business model.
Damn true.
Elizabelle
People booing Hillary now.
Aleta
Go Bernie
MomSense
@Arm The Homeless:
Good god i hope you are not mixing geritol with gin!
Iowa Old Lady
It’s like the R candidates convinced us that politicians couldn’t be articulate, classy, and informed, and now the fog is clearing.
zzyzx
Sanders’ tic of moving his hands down dramatically is quite distracting.
Chris
I’ve never expected that he’d win the nomination, only that he’d make sure economic justice was kept at the top of the list of issues throughout the campaign. (Just as I don’t want Elizabeth Warren to be president, because I frankly find her more useful where she is being a voice for the economic left in a way that a president can’t be). I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Sanders believed that as well and was running for that reason only.
patroclus
This is a really good substantive debate. I’m impressed by the candidates generally. Hillz is killin. Bernie has stopped shouting and backed her up on the stupid e-mail thang that Anderson cares so much about. O’Malley’s not bad.
Kay
@Nicole:
She’s doing really well. But it’s a good debate, generally. They’re really …debating :)
randy khan
@Nicole: If they’re doing it right, they’re all rehearsed to within an inch of their lives. The debate prep sequences from The West Wing (which looked a lot like overkill to a lot of viewers), if anything, underplayed how much they prep for these things.
dmsilev
@Nicole: I don’t remember her being overly stilted in 2008. She was a pretty damn good debater then (arguably better than Obama), and still is.
Betty Cracker
Good line by Bernie about Wall Street regulating Congress.
Elizabelle
Bernie: Wall Street regulates Congress.
Applause here.
Arm The Homeless
@MomSense: Perhaps that is what the bar lizard just slipped into my drink. If you don’t hear from my kidneys in two hours call the cops.
ew
@benw: why is your wife still awake?
Elizabelle
@Kay: They’re in a low earth orbit too.
Democrats > Republicans.
srv
Hillary can’t out run Glass-Steagall
benw
@Arm The Homeless: Locked and loaded.
dr. bloor
Yeah, no shit. Someone will be sure to fire up the O’Malley Signal when the nominee decides a white guy from an Atlantic Seaboard state is the best option for VP.
Betty Cracker
Hillz is doing a great job of aligning herself with PBO, which is smart since Democrats love him.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Yep. She’s not pulling a Gore.
cckids
@Elizabelle:
This. I’d vote for Chaffee or even Webb, that jerk, before I’d endorse ANY of the clowns in the R car.
Elizabelle
Webb: “There is a reality …”
From behind me: “Such a doofus!”
ThresherK (GPad)
@dmsilev: Enough shenanigans in debates past about what “viewers like me” want to know for me to trust that method blindly.
Waiting for an We can all agree… question, like “We can all agree Social Security will be broke in five years. Do we cut drastically, or severly, Senator (Secretary, etc)?”
Nicole
@randy khan: I wasn’t criticizing rehearsing for the debate at all (prepping is why the inmates beat the Ivy League Debate team!). I’m just praising her still sounding spontaneous. The others are getting a bit garbled, but she’s staying very clear.
Baud
@cckids:
Yep.
Betty Cracker
Chafee is just godawful.
Aleta
Go Webb
Nicole
@dmsilev: She sounded very careful to me in 2008. Which I get, after decades of GOP attacks, but I like how she sounds now.
Mind you, I voted in the primary for Edwards, so I freely admit my political instincts can stink.
Baud
C’mon Chafee.
Emerald
Webb, stop complaining about equal time. Ya sound like a whiner.
Elizabelle
@Arm The Homeless:
That’s my goal in life.
MomSense
Now Linc is asking for a do-over. That was really lame.
dmsilev
If Chafee was an actual candidate, that answer would have been a big gaffe. As it is, who gives a shit why he voted the way he did on Glass-Steagall repeal?
Rob
Chafee looks & sounds a little lost right now.
MobiusKlein
Compared to the (R) debate, all 5 seem sane and grounded. Even when they are lame like Chafee
JPL
@Betty Cracker: I know.. I actually liked his answer to Webb about Putin and Syria though.
Arm The Homeless
Lolz. Blue Hair complaining that the Dems won’t protect her retirement. Bartender gave me dirty look for laughing out loud.
What a doofus.
Rob
@MobiusKlein #52:
I completely agree.
Bobby Thomson
@Chris: that has always been my assumption.
MomSense
@Arm The Homeless:
What is the blue hair drinking??
beltane
@MomSense: Fox News Kool Aid no doubt.
Satby
Not watching. But I popped in to check on how it’s going, and I’m glad it’s going good.
Because I’d even vote for Webb before a Repukian.
mike with a mic
I’m done, on that weak ass social security argument I’m out.
jl
” one somehow gets the feeling that he knows his chance of being the nominee is not very high. ”
I think being in majority in Senate again and being head of an effective grassroots movement almost as exciting as being president.
Elie
@Kay:
Agree. THIS is what leadership looks like, Americans!
Compare this to the leaderless, headless mess of the Republicans…
MomSense
@beltane:
Well played.
Arm The Homeless
@MomSense: something red with a cherry in it.
The husband has showed up with a Budweiser and a retired USAF hat. I think they are from somewhere in the Midwest.
Baud
This is getting long. All over the place.
Emerald
Bernie’s right about lifting the SS cap.
Betty Cracker
@Bobby Thomson: Me too. But when he unexpectedly did so well, he might have started thinking he had a chance for realz.
SatanicPanic
Why is Chafee there? Who supports him? WTF
SiubhanDuinne
The worst person on this stage tonight is orders of magnitude better than the best person the Republicans could nominate. I’m feeling pretty good right now.
Big R
@dr. bloor: You mean, like Barack Obama did?
ETA: Not disagreeing with you that the traditional “geographic, electoral” calculus for a running mate doesn’t point to O’Malley. But if you’re thinking, like PBO reportedly did, “Who do I trust to take over for me if something happens to me?”, then O’Malley’s making a pretty good case. His audience appears to be standing directly to his right.
Baud
No questions on the metric system?
randy khan
@Nicole: OK, got it.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Happy you skipped it, eh?
Jeffro
If you look at this from the broadest possible perspective it is kind of amazing how it is unifying the party message : we are the party that will help address income inequality, climate change, gun sanity, and a sensible foreign-policy .
Oh and now Hillary lowers the boom on republican insanity about immigration …priceless!
Please proceed Republicans
jl
@Betty Cracker: I think Sanders is very genuinely a Talk About the Damn Issues Please type of guy.
If it is true he can be quite happy as president, or as a high profile Senator leading an effective grass roots movement that can put effective pressure on federal government, it’s a win win situation for him. Why shouldn’t he not do as he pleases?
Mandalay
@MobiusKlein:
Yep. And compared to the Republican debates, no seething anger, more optimism, and more focused on proposals and solutions rather than bitching and whining.
BillinGlendaleCA
@SatanicPanic: His family, maybe.
Arm The Homeless
Yeah, Hillz! Stomp the Repubs. Tug those heartstrings about Dreamers.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA:
My bladder is.
MomSense
@efgoldman:
He’s an odd one.
@Arm The Homeless:
Oh I think that same couple vacationed in Maine this summer. Asked me for directions to the Bush place – which is about four hours away. Talked my ear off about Benghazi and guns.
Omnes Omnibus
O’Malley is gunning for the VP slot.
SatanicPanic
Anderson Cooper is a lame-o. CNN is stupid.
SiubhanDuinne
“I am for a generous, compassionate America.” This line, or something very like it, needs to go into wide circulation starting now (I was going to say, “between now and November 2016,” but of course it will be true well beyond Election Day).
Arm The Homeless
@Omnes Omnibus: Too bad it will be Julian Castro. Maybe he could be HUD secretary.
SatanicPanic
@Omnes Omnibus: Yup. I guess she might as well give it to him.
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: Should we measure temperature in Kelvin?
Baud
Chafee is sad. Thank god there’s no gong on stage.
Emerald
Cooper is much better than the Faux a$$hole moderators.
This debate is MUCH better than the Rethugs’
benw
@SiubhanDuinne: Unfortunately, even our “unbiased” media tends to plot US politics on a log scale, so both sides end up looking a lot closer together than they actually are.
Elizabelle
@SatanicPanic: He’s 8 times better than Jake Tapper.
It’s the adults debate vs. the circus inanimates. (Don’t want to call them animals.)
BillinGlendaleCA
@Arm The Homeless: Isn’t that Julian Castro’s job now?
SatanicPanic
@Baud: maybe a big hook?
@Emerald: not a high bar there!
Oatler.
Hilary Incorporated is kicking ass. Speaking of ass, Cheryl Crow…!
beltane
@Arm The Homeless: 9 out of 10 Republicans will think VP Castro is the same person as Fidel Castro. Then they will start cutting themselves.
NotMax
…and then there’s Baud.
Arm The Homeless
@MomSense: I had a retired state employee at Publix try to tell me the real problem with the country is that people are “too PC”. I just laughed and told him I wanted extra olives on my sub-sammich.
divF
@Arm The Homeless:
I’d like to see O’Malley move up, if for no other reason but to have him dislodge Pat Buchanan as the most famous person to graduate from my high school.
Kay
@Baud:
There’s something about Bernie Sanders phrasing that makes me laugh. “The government is in our emails”
Betty Cracker
@jl: He should! I like Bernie.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Elizabelle: O’Malley gets a gold star for calling tRump a carnival barker.
srv
An hour in and still no mention of God.
Arm The Homeless
@BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, poetic, huh?
SiubhanDuinne
@NotMax:
Thanks for that. I needed a new music earworm to replace The Star-Spangled Banner.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
redshirt
How is Hillary tweeting while she’s also at the debate?!?!?!
#Tweetgate
Emerald
Whoa! Bernie admits that Snowden broke the law??
His supporters ain’t gonna like that.
SiubhanDuinne
@srv:
And thank the FSM for that!
benw
@schrodinger’s cat: only if we need to describe R politicians’ hearts.
jl
Moderation doesn’t stink as bad as GOP debates, but it kind of scattershot, with random focus. Which is one reason even the grown-ups here are filibustering.
OK, for the general, there is going to be third term of Obama BS, so I think it is silly, but the candidates need to know what to say about it.
Omnes Omnibus
Nice answer from HRC on how not to be Obama’s 3d term.
Bobby Thomson
@SiubhanDuinne: let’s not get carried away. Webb and Chafee are unelectable and O’Malley would be a heavy lift.
SatanicPanic
“Bernie I don’t think the revolution’s gonna come” hahahaha so true
srv
Even Webb recognizes Obama rules by diktat.
Nicole
I need some dressing for that word salad Jim Webb just tossed.
Elizabelle
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Moving to grad school?
It’s stepping out of a septic tank.
trnc
@srv: No, Webb subscribes to the Green Lantern theory of presidential leadership.
Emerald
Gad. How much longer is this going to go on?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Emerald: I was just thinking the same thing.
Arm The Homeless
I was half expecting Webb to say he will be different than Obama because he will be a white president.
Nicole
God, I still remember the allegations about Clinton (Bill) smoking pot being such a big deal in the 1992 campaign. And now Anderson Cooper is accusing everyone in the room of smoking up! Oh, 1990s. You were such an age of innocence.
Mandalay
Clinton says with a straight face that Snowden could have stayed here and been a whistle blower.
She must have rehearsed that line a hundred times before she could say it without snickering or giggling.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus:
She did very well there.
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev:
Although to me, there was something slightly off about Anderson Cooper saying (essentially) “Now let’s talk about racism. Over to you, Don Lemon, [only black person in the room with a mic].”
dmsilev
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve been to grad school. This debate needs far far more coffee to qualify.
jl
I agree Sanders not having enough situational awareness and letting opportunities slip by. He may decide mock debates are worth it next time, instead of just hitting the books for facts and stats (which I read was his MO).
Sanders may have underestimated difficulty of debate since he has only gone up against low grade GOP hacks in last several elections.
burnspbesq
@Emerald:
Snowden recently came very close to admitting that he broke the law, when he said he was interested in exploring the possibility of a plea bargain.
WaterGirl
I hate all this “first woman president” stuff.
schrodinger's cat
@Arm The Homeless: While clinging to guns and religion and the confederate flag.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Nicole: I didn’t smoke pot in the 90’s.
David Koch
flipping threw Twitter and MSM elites/talking heads have a big sad that Hillary is doing well.
so there’s that
Glidwrith
WTF? Commercial claiming 1 million immigrants is too much for the country to bear when so many are struggling. From USAnumbers.com, bastards aren’t even talking about undocumented people but immigrants!
Off to find out who the hell this is…
Elie
I think this has been a good debate and not that badly moderated. LIGHT YEARS different than the Republicans…I am very happy with the candidates performance, even as I criticized some. Any of these would honor our country compared to the Republicans. This stands out in great contrast to what is going on in the House and the Republican candidates…
SiubhanDuinne
@Bobby Thomson:
Not talking electability. Just saying they are much much better (on the issues) than anyone the Republicans can barf up.
dmsilev
WTF is this? “You, candidate, do you think other candidate should beat you?”
Emerald
@David Koch: Oh do tell. I’m not watching the flipping M$M.
Are they whining? Details! Details! I want to drink their tears.
Nicole
@BillinGlendaleCA: Me neither. I was worried it would hurt my future political career. Which I never pursued. God damn it!
srv
Bernie, every time you attack Hillary, you get her more airtime. She knows better than you what to do with it.
Clue.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I’ve never smoked pot.
jl
@SiubhanDuinne:
” there was something slightly off about Anderson Cooper ”
Well, it is CNN and corporate media BS, so a number of things slightly off, or more than slightly off about this.
I think of two of these people are doofuses, but they are all grown-up enough to (mostly) decline CNN’s invitation to turn this into a higher toned version of the GOP debates.
Origuy
@srv:
Why do you think there should be? I think they’d all say they are in favor.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Nicole: I didn’t say anything about the 80’s, hehe.
Joe Shabadoo
I can’t bring myself to watch a political debate unless there is someone like Trump to drive the clown car.
In today’s world debates are basically pointless because we have all the candidates positions (that they will talk about) at our fingertips and there is no real debating. The only reason for me to sit down and watch it is pure entertainment/drinking games.
Baud
No abortion or gays.
amk
@srv:
wait, didn’t your particular carnival barker say that he would rule only by diktats? are you getting confused in your dictator fantasy world?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
tonight’s special at the Boss Hogg Café, a filet of stupid avec sauce raciste
schrodinger's cat
@Glidwrith: They border on being a hate group. Another affiliated group is FAIR, and the guy who runs it writes for K Lo’s Crazy Corner and goes by the name Mark Krikorian. They want to decrease legal immigration.
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev:
I’ve been to grad school.
Grad school was a friend of mine.
CNN debate, you’re no grad school.
dmsilev
@Baud: What about gay abortions?
jl
@srv: What debate are you watching?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I haven’t in 30 years.
JPL
@BillinGlendaleCA: neither did I
Arm The Homeless
@schrodinger’s cat: Fyckin’ Webb, coal whore.
MomSense
@efgoldman:
Never ask a Mainah for directions. The thing people don’t realize is that when we say “you can’t get there from here” we are not saying the roads don’t exist, we are doing a snap assessment of the capabilities of the person who is lost. It is really “You can’t get there from here”.
Nicole
@BillinGlendaleCA: I laughed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Origuy: see what happens when dear Monsignor Russert isn’t there to ask how faith will guide their decisions?
Bobby Thomson
@srv: she’s kind of an asshole.
Baud
Hillary is the only one name checking Obama.
Jeffro
@David Koch: Tomorrow every right-wing outlet in America will be talking about how CNN is in the tank for the Dems, they didn’t really drill down about Benghazi, how socialism = death, pin ’em down on Black Lives Matters, etc. And good for the winger pundits: they’ll lose another couple percentage points of viewers/readers/listeners, and the quality of our national discourse will be that much improved.
Maybe we could get Kevin McCarthy to comment on what he thinks about the debate? It seems to be a big plus for Dems when he opines on the issues of the day…
/victory dance
beltane
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I wouldn’t trust my labrador with any member of the Huckabee family. They are into dog torturing and killing.
Arm The Homeless
@SiubhanDuinne: If this is Grad school, where is my damn lumpy couch in the hallway?
dmsilev
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Wasn’t Huckabee the one who used a popcorn popper to cook squirrels? Not sure I want to take his culinary advice.
Jeffro
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: BOOM.
Using that tomorrow and every day from now until November 2016.
Origuy
How’s that GOP minority outreach going? Huckabee just tweeted:
ETA And this is the guy whose son killed a dog.
dmsilev
@Arm The Homeless: There will be an oral exam on the subjects of the debate tomorrow morning.
patroclus
@Baud: I know. Hillz is killin….
benw
@Baud:
So that’s your official campaign position?
jl
@Origuy: They’ve already lost Asian-Americans, so what do they care?
Betty Cracker
Okay. I’m ready for Hillary.
beltane
@dmsilev: His son had a history of hanging dogs. No need to travel all the way to North Korea to witness animal cruelty when we’ve got people like the Huckabees right here.
Mandalay
@Baud:
And way too much for my liking. She’s been pretty shameless about giving him a tongue bath.
Emerald
Go Hillz! Attack those Rethugs!
SiubhanDuinne
LOVE that Hillary brought PP into answer about Carly and maternity leave.
Bring. It. On. HRC.
frosty
@BillinGlendaleCA: Or the 70s. At least what I remember of them.
(Former Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason)
Baud
@Mandalay:
I like it. Good politics.
Jeffro
@Baud: That’s very interesting (and kind of supports my Rs-will-say-CNN-is-in-the-tank-for-the-Dems theory)…nothing about Planned Parenthood, nothing about gay marriage. But in all fairness (especially compared to the GOP debates, omg) this debate really has covered just about everything under the sun.
Arm The Homeless
@MomSense: That’s why I have at least three compasses on me at all time. Would that affect your assessment of my capability to get from ‘here to there’
Elie
@Baud:
That is correct. She is pulling together the Democratic base — ALL of it
(small print – I know she will leave some of Bernie’s progressives in a state of snit, but hopefully they can come around when they acknowledge the alternatives)
SarahT
@SiubhanDuinne: YEAH YOU RIGHT
BillinGlendaleCA
@SiubhanDuinne: She really showed some passion with that answer.
rk
Hillary’s laugh gets on my nerves. It’s annoying. Before anyone jumps down my throat, I like Hillary.
jl
@Jeffro:
” Planned Parenthood, nothing about gay marriage. ”
So far, CNN is in the tank for the GOP by not giving HRC and Sanders a chance to unload with the facts on those two issues.
Edit: the others would unload too, but I can see why HRC and Sanders are two who are able to make real political impact.
dmsilev
@Elie: I think the ‘snit’ population will be about as large as the 2008 PUMA contingent. Which is to say, only a small number of people who are disproportionally loud.
Baud
Good answer from Bernie on the GOP.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: I am too. She’s been so much better than I expected. WTG Hilz!
ThresherK (GPad)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: To paraphrase Bess Truman: It took Huckleberry 30 years to say North Korean.
SiubhanDuinne
Bernie taking it to the Republicans.
“You are out of your job.”
YESSSSS
Baud
@dmsilev:
Agree.
Arm The Homeless
@dmsilev: Where is the damn fire alarm when you need one?
Baud
@jl:
Agree.
Elie
@Mandalay:
He is the sitting President. He is a successful sitting President. He was the first black President. She was his Secretary of State.
Yep, that is how it works. She is a pro. Check Al Gore and Bill Clinton. Remember that?
Steeplejack (phone)
@Arm The Homeless:
Are you in the Armada Lounge at the Ramada Inn?
Glidwrith
@Mandalay: Doesn’t do us one whit of good to run away from the man. Take what has been done and build on it.
Elizabelle
@Mandalay: I am good with a tongue bath for Obama.
I would do it. Great respect for PBO, for all the things he did not do, that he might, were he President no more fucks to give, and experienced in the ways of treason by his political opponents.
dmsilev
Via the dkos liveblog:
gogol's wife
@Jeffro:
Sounds good. I wish it didn’t make me too nervous to watch.
And yes, I’d vote for any one of them before any of the Republicans.
BillinGlendaleCA
@ThresherK (GPad): Bess Truman couldn’t even break a bottle on a ship.
Mike J
@dmsilev: And mostly right wingers trolling.
Emerald
@Elizabelle: Yup. I’ve decided. Hillz it is.
I knew she was a good debater. But she’s been sharp and smiling and just smart on every question, even when I disagreed with a few of her positions (c’mon Hillz, vote for the marijuana legalization).
Not only is she winning this debate, she’s running away with it.
Mike J
ModerateCentrist Retweeted
Richard Hine @richardhine 1h1 hour ago
Tonight we learned it is still possible to have an intelligent debate in America. Just as long as no Republicans are included.
Arm The Homeless
@Steeplejack (phone): Naw, the Hilton Garden Inn. $10 for shitty breakfast. What a racket. You in PC?
MomSense
@Arm The Homeless:
No GPS?
Mandalay
Maybe I’ve become too accustomed to seeing the media wheeling out the most unflattering pictures of her they can find, but is Hillary Clinton looking great tonight? She appears ten years younger than when she was winding up as SoS.
(Not intended as a shallow comment…the change just seems yoooge to me.)
BillinGlendaleCA
Finally, last question.
amk
@Mandalay:
smart politics. the thing the loony left lacks.
Baud
Why is a one party system bad again?
Elizabelle
Which enemy are you most proud of?
Love it.
Applause for O’M with NRA. People sneering HRC, though. But laughing at “Republicans.”
Elizabelle
People laughing at Webb.
Baud
Jesus, Webb, that was creepy.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Works well CA.
Omnes Omnibus
Chafee is scandal-less.
Elie
@Mandalay:
Agree with you. She looks younger, perky and energetic – sharp but not strident… what she has to look like to run this marathon, thanks be.
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker:Okay. I’m ready for Hillary too!
I’m half convinced that the rest of them are up there to show Dem voters (by contrast) who is REALLY up for this thing next November, and who brings the most complete package to the table, as it were. She is certainly laying into Rs well enough…
I tried explaining it to my daughter: if you look at debates in the broadest possible terms, ignoring the individual names/personalities and looking at these folks as voices for particular constituencies in their parties, it is a lot more illuminating (particularly when there is a dominant front-runner like Hillary).
Sure O’Malley is ambitious – but he cannot possibly match up against Hillary’s last name, national experience, gender (just this time – won’t be an issue after this election), and of course, near-inevitability after 2008 and then so patiently serving in the Obama administration. Sure Webb has a nice resume and reminds us that some gun owners are responsible, some poor people are white, and many Dems support & have served in the military. Chafee reminds us that everyone, even the pretty respectable Dems, have a boring and/or slightly “off” uncle. There’s nothing in Sanders’ economic messages that Hillary can’t incorporate into her own pretty easily for both the primary and the general, and she covers many other bases for the party that he doesn’t as yet cover well.
I know there’s not a lot of them anyway, but there’s no real need to watch the rest of the Dem debates.
Let’s just get some pools going: who’ll drop out first, Chafee or Pataki?
patroclus
@Emerald: Agreed. Hillary has been most excellent throughout (even on the things I don’t agree with her on). She really brought her A game tonight. I haven’t decided to vote for her yet or certainly to give her money, but she’s in the lead for sure.
Arm The Homeless
@MomSense: If it’s anything like the back roads of Floriduh, GPS may get you more lost than without one.
jl
Am I hearing a loop of Chaffee’s opening statement? He left the building early and they are replaying something?
Emerald
Chafee, Hillary hasn’t had an scandals either. Not real ones.
dmsilev
@Baud: It was weird. He was proud of making an enemy of some random soldier in the North Vietnamese Army?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: But not graniteless.
MomSense
@Baud:
USA 2001-2006.
Jeffro
@Mike J: BOOM!
MomSense
@Arm The Homeless:
You are direction worthy!
Baud
@MomSense:
Oh yeah.
Baud
Good closing by O’Malley.
Aleta
@jl: he’s a power point kind of guy
Jim, Foolish Literalist
so I gather Joe Biden is now wondering if it’s too late to get HRC to offer him State if he endorses early?
ETA: And don’t forget to dial up your VCRs, cause I heard Tweety earlier say he’s gonna have Rich Little on tonight! Because Vegas, baby!
And now we know Rich Little is still with us. I’m pretty sure.
Arm The Homeless
@MomSense: Well the next time I am lost in Maine, I will hope it’s you giving me directions
SiubhanDuinne
@Elizabelle:
Hmm. Makes me wonder, given the fact that the Tenthers would toss out every Constitutional amendment after the Bill of Rights … do they realize that would presumably mean three, four, or more terms of office for Bill Clinton? For Barack Obama?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: That was well done. Bernie started YELLING again at the end.
Emerald
I don’t see Biden getting in after this. Hillary has proven herself.
Yeah, Biden wants to be president, but he wants a Democrat to win more.
And Hillary has proven tonight that she has the chops to win.
BillinGlendaleCA
@SiubhanDuinne: Oh, they’ll keep that one, but amend it so it only applies to Democrats.
David Koch
Now on to Spin-Alley to see how Baud shapes the coverage.
Jeffro
WaPo headline at the moment: “Clinton defends relationships with Wall Street”. They are also clearly struggling to keep up the Clinton/Sanders horse race going now that it’s clear Biden is not running and O’Malley/Webb/Chafee are not worth wasting time on.
Villagers, relax, it’s gonna be all right…
Betty Cracker
Hillary won that debate by a fucking mile.
Davis X Machina
@Mandalay:The man and the hour have met, only the man is a woman this time
Omnes Omnibus
O’Malley and HRC closed strong.
Kay
Good close, Hillary. Hillary won.
Baud
None of the top three embarrassed themsleves. Good job all.
Elie
Why does Bernie have to shout? That scolding thing just makes him sound old and irritable. He’s gotta think about how to tweak his presentation cause he has a lot to say but he turns off the ability to hook to a lot of receptive people. For example, he could start with a softer warm up that binds him to people, then the jeremiad could begin. People need to be loved first.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mandalay:
I think she looks terrific. But I wouldn’t care if she looks like the Witch of Endor as long as she keeps bringing it the way she has tonight.
dmsilev
And …done. Shutting off TV quickly before the “analysts” start emitting word-like sounds.
Nicole
Goddamnit, Hilary. Thanks to the phrasing of your closing remarks, I now have a Chumbawamba ear worm.
jl
@Emerald: But but, so many pundits have told methat Biden is the white centrist savior who can ride in and save the floundering Democrats? They must be right.
Elizabelle
@Kay: Hillary won, indeed. But I like our assisting field.
ETA: HRC did better than I hoped.
Nicole
@Elie: It does make him sound like that old guy who needs to change the batteries in his hearing aid, doesn’t it?
Steeplejack (phone)
@Kay:
Jake Tapper on now for analysis. Check, please!
Baud
MSNBC has the creepiest looking panel right now.
Jeffro
@Emerald: never a question here but yes, this should pretty effectively squelch the Biden stuff…no need to run, no constituency she isn’t already addressing quite well, nothing she can’t handle, and easy responses to the Rs’ propaganda. Thanks Kevin McCarthy!
MomSense
@Arm The Homeless:
Me too!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Elizabelle: Agreed.
Betty Cracker
New thread.
CaseyL
The best thing about the debate was how everyone sounded like an educated adult. HRC did just fine, but I was also impressed by O’Malley – not enough to support him for President; just impressed. I liked Bernie quite a bit, too: his cut-to-the-chase style.
And, yeah, turned off the TV as soon as I heard the magic words “Wolf Blitzer” and “analysis.” Blech.
Elie
@Nicole:
Yep. He has a message people need to hear. He has to package it to be a bit different.. to knit it with the themes of unifying our country and taking care of our people. People want to hear it and it sets up the next phase, what we should do. Its all bad, rich are getting richer (which while true, please can you phrase it a little differently — less pedantic) He has to figure out what he needs to say that is positive. There has to be something positive and I never heard it tonight.
He is a novice to national politics. He has done good in laying out important priorities, but he has to raise his game. He has been used to his audiences and he has to broaden himself to address the broad Democratic constituency…
Arm The Homeless
@MomSense: Well, maybe the SO and I can come up and you can point us to the best place to get a local beer.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steeplejack (phone):
IIRC, Tapper was the one who spent the first half-hour or more of his moderation gig with the Repugs telling each of them some awful thing Trump had said about them and asking them to respond.
Anderson Cooper was Walter Cronkite David Brinkley and the entire League of Women Voters in comparison. (Please note, I said in comparison.)
Steeplejack
Switched over to local news. They’re leading with a story about a couple who got pulled out of a big house fire.
Reporter’s voice-over: “They accepted their wedding vows around this time last year. [Names] taking each other for better, for worse, till death do them part. This morning, death nearly did them part.”
I did a full Danny Thomas spit-take. Maybe you had to hear it, but damn. Imagine full Ron Burgundy serious mode.
Steeplejack
@Kay:
And the helicopters aren’t laughing.
Mandalay
@Baud:
Podesta-Mitchell-Walsh. Ugh.
But so fair and balanced of Matthews to invite the chairman of Clinton’s campaign on immediately after the debate, and ask him how she did.
jl
@SiubhanDuinne: I agree, in comparison. All the moderators were better. But still too many tendentiously loaded questions based in questionable assumptions. And too many chickenshit questions that started ‘X said Y about you, so what do you say back?’
Nicole
@Elie: I agree with you. And I get it; I get how frustrated he is with the current state of affairs, but yeah, he’s got to find some positive to accentuate. And he bobbled a bit on the “socialism vs capitalism” thing. I mean, how hard is it to say something like, “Yes, I’m a socialist. I’ve been around long enough to see that the programs that have done the most to pull people out of poverty- Social Security, Medicare, the GI Bill- are socialist programs. And I’ve seen the wealthy turn socialism into a dirty word, so that they can continue to practice their casino capitalism and steal money and security away from the middle class. But I think Americans are smarter than that.”
(We’re not, but Bernie, you can lie to us a little) ;)
Mandalay
@amk:
And who exactly is a member of what you are calling “the loony left”. BLM? Sanders? Those opposed to the status quo for the 1%?
Just who do you think is loony?
amk
@Mandalay:
The ones who are fixated (even now) on how Obama let them down and how he didn’t solve all their decades old problems in the first month of presidency.
Steeplejack
@Arm The Homeless:
No, just going by the demographic of your fellow patrons.
Frankensteinbeck
Toldja Hillary would start sounding good the moment you actually got to hear what she’s been saying. The national media has been going LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU BENGHAZI TRUMP because they just can’t have anybody talking about issues and helping people. It’s so tacky! And a Democrat? And Hillary Clinton? Ugh!
Mandalay
@amk:
Gotcha. So that’s Jane Hamsher, Cornell West, Tavis Smiley and maybe Michael Moore?
amk
@Mandalay:
Yup, them and their ilk and a lot more clueless like them.
jeannedalbret
@Emerald: Really?
January 6, 2014
“The information disclosed by Edward Snowden has been extremely important in allowing Congress and the American people to understand the degree to which the NSA has abused its authority and violated our constitutional rights,” Sanders said in a statement. “On the other hand, there is no debate that Mr. Snowden violated an oath and committed a crime.”
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: He seems a much nicer charisma-less guy than the gov of my state.