Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Trump should be leading, not lying.

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

Beware of advice from anyone for whom Democrats are “they” and not “we.”

No one could have predicted…

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

The revolution will be supervised.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

Giving up is unforgivable.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. do not touch it.”

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

White supremacy is terrorism.

You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / Bernie Sanders 2016 / More Las Vegas Debate Open Thread

More Las Vegas Debate Open Thread

by | 267 Comments

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The CNN live feed here is working for me.

Finding the Guardian liveblog most helpful.

Mid-debate personal opinion: HRClinton is doing really well. O’Malley is better than I feared, and seems to be signalling he’d take the VP slot if “someone” were to offer. Sanders is doing a good job of pushing his socialist agenda — one somehow gets the feeling that he knows his chance of being the nominee is not very high. Webb is angling for Secretary of Defense (spoiler: not gonna happen) and Chafee is as big a joke as his worst enemy might have predicted…

Reader Interactions

267Comments

  7. 7.

    Arm The Homeless

    Man, I forgot how good Bernie is when he gets a wheelhouse question. Clinton is bringing me back into the fold. She is really good at debates. I’ve forgotten that since 2008.

  11. 11.

    Nicole

    @Arm The Homeless: I think she’s also better than she was in 2008. Her speech rhythm sounds more relaxed than it did eight years ago. I’m sure she’s rehearsed to within an inch of her life, but she doesn’t sound rehearsed.

  13. 13.

    Arm The Homeless

    Olds in Panama City kvetching about Clinton at the hotel bar. I think they know I am laughing at them, but the gin has me ten feet tall and geritol-proof

  15. 15.

    trnc

    Not sure why no one seems to know the easy answer to ” but don’t all lives matter?” is “sure, they all matter, but it’s already understood white lives matter. That’s why armed white men are often arrested safely while unarmed black men are shot.”

  23. 23.

    Chris

    Sanders is doing a good job of pushing his socialist agenda — one somehow gets the feeling that he knows his chance of being the nominee is not very high.

    I’ve never expected that he’d win the nomination, only that he’d make sure economic justice was kept at the top of the list of issues throughout the campaign. (Just as I don’t want Elizabeth Warren to be president, because I frankly find her more useful where she is being a voice for the economic left in a way that a president can’t be). I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Sanders believed that as well and was running for that reason only.

  24. 24.

    patroclus

    This is a really good substantive debate. I’m impressed by the candidates generally. Hillz is killin. Bernie has stopped shouting and backed her up on the stupid e-mail thang that Anderson cares so much about. O’Malley’s not bad.

  26. 26.

    randy khan

    @Nicole: If they’re doing it right, they’re all rehearsed to within an inch of their lives. The debate prep sequences from The West Wing (which looked a lot like overkill to a lot of viewers), if anything, underplayed how much they prep for these things.

  27. 27.

    dmsilev

    @Nicole: I don’t remember her being overly stilted in 2008. She was a pretty damn good debater then (arguably better than Obama), and still is.

  30. 30.

    Arm The Homeless

    @MomSense: Perhaps that is what the bar lizard just slipped into my drink. If you don’t hear from my kidneys in two hours call the cops.

  35. 35.

    dr. bloor

    O’Malley is better than I feared, and seems to be signalling he’d take the VP slot if “someone” were to offer.

    Yeah, no shit. Someone will be sure to fire up the O’Malley Signal when the nominee decides a white guy from an Atlantic Seaboard state is the best option for VP.

  36. 36.

    Betty Cracker

    Hillz is doing a great job of aligning herself with PBO, which is smart since Democrats love him.

  40. 40.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    @dmsilev: Enough shenanigans in debates past about what “viewers like me” want to know for me to trust that method blindly.

    Waiting for an We can all agree… question, like “We can all agree Social Security will be broke in five years. Do we cut drastically, or severly, Senator (Secretary, etc)?”

  41. 41.

    Nicole

    @randy khan: I wasn’t criticizing rehearsing for the debate at all (prepping is why the inmates beat the Ivy League Debate team!). I’m just praising her still sounding spontaneous. The others are getting a bit garbled, but she’s staying very clear.

  45. 45.

    Nicole

    @dmsilev: She sounded very careful to me in 2008. Which I get, after decades of GOP attacks, but I like how she sounds now.

    Mind you, I voted in the primary for Edwards, so I freely admit my political instincts can stink.

  50. 50.

    dmsilev

    If Chafee was an actual candidate, that answer would have been a big gaffe. As it is, who gives a shit why he voted the way he did on Glass-Steagall repeal?

  52. 52.

    MobiusKlein

    Compared to the (R) debate, all 5 seem sane and grounded. Even when they are lame like Chafee

  54. 54.

    Arm The Homeless

    Lolz. Blue Hair complaining that the Dems won’t protect her retirement. Bartender gave me dirty look for laughing out loud.

    What a doofus.

  59. 59.

    Satby

    Not watching. But I popped in to check on how it’s going, and I’m glad it’s going good.
    Because I’d even vote for Webb before a Repukian.

  61. 61.

    jl

    ” one somehow gets the feeling that he knows his chance of being the nominee is not very high. ”

    I think being in majority in Senate again and being head of an effective grassroots movement almost as exciting as being president.

  62. 62.

    Elie

    @Kay:

    Agree. THIS is what leadership looks like, Americans!

    Compare this to the leaderless, headless mess of the Republicans…

  64. 64.

    Arm The Homeless

    @MomSense: something red with a cherry in it.

    The husband has showed up with a Budweiser and a retired USAF hat. I think they are from somewhere in the Midwest.

  69. 69.

    SiubhanDuinne

    The worst person on this stage tonight is orders of magnitude better than the best person the Republicans could nominate. I’m feeling pretty good right now.

  70. 70.

    Big R

    @dr. bloor: You mean, like Barack Obama did?

    ETA: Not disagreeing with you that the traditional “geographic, electoral” calculus for a running mate doesn’t point to O’Malley. But if you’re thinking, like PBO reportedly did, “Who do I trust to take over for me if something happens to me?”, then O’Malley’s making a pretty good case. His audience appears to be standing directly to his right.

  74. 74.

    Jeffro

    If you look at this from the broadest possible perspective it is kind of amazing how it is unifying the party message : we are the party that will help address income inequality, climate change, gun sanity, and a sensible foreign-policy .

    Oh and now Hillary lowers the boom on republican insanity about immigration …priceless!

    Please proceed Republicans

  75. 75.

    jl

    @Betty Cracker: I think Sanders is very genuinely a Talk About the Damn Issues Please type of guy.

    If it is true he can be quite happy as president, or as a high profile Senator leading an effective grass roots movement that can put effective pressure on federal government, it’s a win win situation for him. Why shouldn’t he not do as he pleases?

  76. 76.

    Mandalay

    @MobiusKlein:

    Compared to the (R) debate, all 5 seem sane and grounded.

    Yep. And compared to the Republican debates, no seething anger, more optimism, and more focused on proposals and solutions rather than bitching and whining.

  80. 80.

    MomSense

    @efgoldman:

    He’s an odd one.

    @Arm The Homeless:

    Oh I think that same couple vacationed in Maine this summer. Asked me for directions to the Bush place – which is about four hours away. Talked my ear off about Benghazi and guns.

  83. 83.

    SiubhanDuinne

    “I am for a generous, compassionate America.” This line, or something very like it, needs to go into wide circulation starting now (I was going to say, “between now and November 2016,” but of course it will be true well beyond Election Day).

  88. 88.

    Emerald

    Cooper is much better than the Faux a$$hole moderators.

    This debate is MUCH better than the Rethugs’

  89. 89.

    benw

    @SiubhanDuinne: Unfortunately, even our “unbiased” media tends to plot US politics on a log scale, so both sides end up looking a lot closer together than they actually are.

  96. 96.

    Arm The Homeless

    @MomSense: I had a retired state employee at Publix try to tell me the real problem with the country is that people are “too PC”. I just laughed and told him I wanted extra olives on my sub-sammich.

  104. 104.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    daveweigel ‏@ daveweigel 40m40 minutes ago
    Jesus, watching this debate after slogging through all the Trump debates is like moving from kindergarten into grad school

  109. 109.

    jl

    Moderation doesn’t stink as bad as GOP debates, but it kind of scattershot, with random focus. Which is one reason even the grown-ups here are filibustering.

    OK, for the general, there is going to be third term of Obama BS, so I think it is silly, but the candidates need to know what to say about it.

  119. 119.

    Arm The Homeless

    I was half expecting Webb to say he will be different than Obama because he will be a white president.

  120. 120.

    Nicole

    God, I still remember the allegations about Clinton (Bill) smoking pot being such a big deal in the 1992 campaign. And now Anderson Cooper is accusing everyone in the room of smoking up! Oh, 1990s. You were such an age of innocence.

  121. 121.

    Mandalay

    Clinton says with a straight face that Snowden could have stayed here and been a whistle blower.

    She must have rehearsed that line a hundred times before she could say it without snickering or giggling.

  123. 123.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @dmsilev:

    Although to me, there was something slightly off about Anderson Cooper saying (essentially) “Now let’s talk about racism. Over to you, Don Lemon, [only black person in the room with a mic].”

  125. 125.

    jl

    I agree Sanders not having enough situational awareness and letting opportunities slip by. He may decide mock debates are worth it next time, instead of just hitting the books for facts and stats (which I read was his MO).

    Sanders may have underestimated difficulty of debate since he has only gone up against low grade GOP hacks in last several elections.

  126. 126.

    burnspbesq

    @Emerald:

    Whoa! Bernie admits that Snowden broke the law??

    Snowden recently came very close to admitting that he broke the law, when he said he was interested in exploring the possibility of a plea bargain.

  130. 130.

    David Koch

    flipping threw Twitter and MSM elites/talking heads have a big sad that Hillary is doing well.

    so there’s that

  131. 131.

    Glidwrith

    WTF? Commercial claiming 1 million immigrants is too much for the country to bear when so many are struggling. From USAnumbers.com, bastards aren’t even talking about undocumented people but immigrants!

    Off to find out who the hell this is…

  132. 132.

    Elie

    I think this has been a good debate and not that badly moderated. LIGHT YEARS different than the Republicans…I am very happy with the candidates performance, even as I criticized some. Any of these would honor our country compared to the Republicans. This stands out in great contrast to what is going on in the House and the Republican candidates…

  137. 137.

    srv

    Bernie, every time you attack Hillary, you get her more airtime. She knows better than you what to do with it.

    Clue.

  139. 139.

    jl

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    ” there was something slightly off about Anderson Cooper ”

    Well, it is CNN and corporate media BS, so a number of things slightly off, or more than slightly off about this.

    I think of two of these people are doofuses, but they are all grown-up enough to (mostly) decline CNN’s invitation to turn this into a higher toned version of the GOP debates.

  142. 142.

    Joe Shabadoo

    I can’t bring myself to watch a political debate unless there is someone like Trump to drive the clown car.

    In today’s world debates are basically pointless because we have all the candidates positions (that they will talk about) at our fingertips and there is no real debating. The only reason for me to sit down and watch it is pure entertainment/drinking games.

  144. 144.

    amk

    @srv:

    wait, didn’t your particular carnival barker say that he would rule only by diktats? are you getting confused in your dictator fantasy world?

  145. 145.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    tonight’s special at the Boss Hogg Café, a filet of stupid avec sauce raciste

    Gov. Mike HuckabeeVerified account
    ‏@ GovMikeHuckabee
    I trust @ BernieSanders with my tax dollars like I trust a North Korean chef with my labrador! #DemDebate

  153. 153.

    MomSense

    @efgoldman:

    Never ask a Mainah for directions. The thing people don’t realize is that when we say “you can’t get there from here” we are not saying the roads don’t exist, we are doing a snap assessment of the capabilities of the person who is lost. It is really “You can’t get there from here”.

  155. 155.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Origuy: see what happens when dear Monsignor Russert isn’t there to ask how faith will guide their decisions?

  158. 158.

    Jeffro

    @David Koch: Tomorrow every right-wing outlet in America will be talking about how CNN is in the tank for the Dems, they didn’t really drill down about Benghazi, how socialism = death, pin ’em down on Black Lives Matters, etc. And good for the winger pundits: they’ll lose another couple percentage points of viewers/readers/listeners, and the quality of our national discourse will be that much improved.

    Maybe we could get Kevin McCarthy to comment on what he thinks about the debate? It seems to be a big plus for Dems when he opines on the issues of the day…

    /victory dance

  163. 163.

    Origuy

    How’s that GOP minority outreach going? Huckabee just tweeted:

    I trust @BernieSanders with my tax dollars like I trust a North Korean chef with my labrador! #DemDebate

    ETA And this is the guy whose son killed a dog.

  169. 169.

    beltane

    @dmsilev: His son had a history of hanging dogs. No need to travel all the way to North Korea to witness animal cruelty when we’ve got people like the Huckabees right here.

  170. 170.

    Mandalay

    @Baud:

    Hillary is the only one name checking Obama.

    And way too much for my liking. She’s been pretty shameless about giving him a tongue bath.

  172. 172.

    SiubhanDuinne

    LOVE that Hillary brought PP into answer about Carly and maternity leave.

    Bring. It. On. HRC.

  175. 175.

    Jeffro

    @Baud: That’s very interesting (and kind of supports my Rs-will-say-CNN-is-in-the-tank-for-the-Dems theory)…nothing about Planned Parenthood, nothing about gay marriage. But in all fairness (especially compared to the GOP debates, omg) this debate really has covered just about everything under the sun.

  176. 176.

    Arm The Homeless

    @MomSense: That’s why I have at least three compasses on me at all time. Would that affect your assessment of my capability to get from ‘here to there’

  177. 177.

    Elie

    @Baud:

    That is correct. She is pulling together the Democratic base — ALL of it

    (small print – I know she will leave some of Bernie’s progressives in a state of snit, but hopefully they can come around when they acknowledge the alternatives)

  180. 180.

    rk

    Hillary’s laugh gets on my nerves. It’s annoying. Before anyone jumps down my throat, I like Hillary.

  181. 181.

    jl

    @Jeffro:

    ” Planned Parenthood, nothing about gay marriage. ”

    So far, CNN is in the tank for the GOP by not giving HRC and Sanders a chance to unload with the facts on those two issues.

    Edit: the others would unload too, but I can see why HRC and Sanders are two who are able to make real political impact.

  182. 182.

    dmsilev

    @Elie: I think the ‘snit’ population will be about as large as the 2008 PUMA contingent. Which is to say, only a small number of people who are disproportionally loud.

  190. 190.

    Elie

    @Mandalay:

    He is the sitting President. He is a successful sitting President. He was the first black President. She was his Secretary of State.

    Yep, that is how it works. She is a pro. Check Al Gore and Bill Clinton. Remember that?

  193. 193.

    Elizabelle

    @Mandalay: I am good with a tongue bath for Obama.

    I would do it. Great respect for PBO, for all the things he did not do, that he might, were he President no more fucks to give, and experienced in the ways of treason by his political opponents.

  194. 194.

    dmsilev

    Via the dkos liveblog:

    If Don Lemon can only ask about black people and Juan Carlos Lopez can only ask about Hispanics, Wolf Blitzer only gets to ask about wolves.

  195. 195.

    gogol's wife

    @Jeffro:

    Sounds good. I wish it didn’t make me too nervous to watch.

    And yes, I’d vote for any one of them before any of the Republicans.

  198. 198.

    Emerald

    @Elizabelle: Yup. I’ve decided. Hillz it is.

    I knew she was a good debater. But she’s been sharp and smiling and just smart on every question, even when I disagreed with a few of her positions (c’mon Hillz, vote for the marijuana legalization).

    Not only is she winning this debate, she’s running away with it.

  199. 199.

    Mike J

    ModerateCentrist Retweeted
    Richard Hine ‏@richardhine 1h1 hour ago
    Tonight we learned it is still possible to have an intelligent debate in America. Just as long as no Republicans are included.

  202. 202.

    Mandalay

    Maybe I’ve become too accustomed to seeing the media wheeling out the most unflattering pictures of her they can find, but is Hillary Clinton looking great tonight? She appears ten years younger than when she was winding up as SoS.

    (Not intended as a shallow comment…the change just seems yoooge to me.)

  206. 206.

    Elizabelle

    Which enemy are you most proud of?

    Love it.

    Applause for O’M with NRA. People sneering HRC, though. But laughing at “Republicans.”

  211. 211.

    Elie

    @Mandalay:

    Agree with you. She looks younger, perky and energetic – sharp but not strident… what she has to look like to run this marathon, thanks be.

  212. 212.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker:Okay. I’m ready for Hillary too!

    I’m half convinced that the rest of them are up there to show Dem voters (by contrast) who is REALLY up for this thing next November, and who brings the most complete package to the table, as it were. She is certainly laying into Rs well enough…

    I tried explaining it to my daughter: if you look at debates in the broadest possible terms, ignoring the individual names/personalities and looking at these folks as voices for particular constituencies in their parties, it is a lot more illuminating (particularly when there is a dominant front-runner like Hillary).

    Sure O’Malley is ambitious – but he cannot possibly match up against Hillary’s last name, national experience, gender (just this time – won’t be an issue after this election), and of course, near-inevitability after 2008 and then so patiently serving in the Obama administration. Sure Webb has a nice resume and reminds us that some gun owners are responsible, some poor people are white, and many Dems support & have served in the military. Chafee reminds us that everyone, even the pretty respectable Dems, have a boring and/or slightly “off” uncle. There’s nothing in Sanders’ economic messages that Hillary can’t incorporate into her own pretty easily for both the primary and the general, and she covers many other bases for the party that he doesn’t as yet cover well.

    I know there’s not a lot of them anyway, but there’s no real need to watch the rest of the Dem debates.

    Let’s just get some pools going: who’ll drop out first, Chafee or Pataki?

  213. 213.

    patroclus

    @Emerald: Agreed. Hillary has been most excellent throughout (even on the things I don’t agree with her on). She really brought her A game tonight. I haven’t decided to vote for her yet or certainly to give her money, but she’s in the lead for sure.

  215. 215.

    jl

    Am I hearing a loop of Chaffee’s opening statement? He left the building early and they are replaying something?

  225. 225.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    so I gather Joe Biden is now wondering if it’s too late to get HRC to offer him State if he endorses early?

    ETA: And don’t forget to dial up your VCRs, cause I heard Tweety earlier say he’s gonna have Rich Little on tonight! Because Vegas, baby!

    And now we know Rich Little is still with us. I’m pretty sure.

  227. 227.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Elizabelle:

    Hmm. Makes me wonder, given the fact that the Tenthers would toss out every Constitutional amendment after the Bill of Rights … do they realize that would presumably mean three, four, or more terms of office for Bill Clinton? For Barack Obama?

  229. 229.

    Emerald

    I don’t see Biden getting in after this. Hillary has proven herself.

    Yeah, Biden wants to be president, but he wants a Democrat to win more.

    And Hillary has proven tonight that she has the chops to win.

  232. 232.

    Jeffro

    WaPo headline at the moment: “Clinton defends relationships with Wall Street”. They are also clearly struggling to keep up the Clinton/Sanders horse race going now that it’s clear Biden is not running and O’Malley/Webb/Chafee are not worth wasting time on.

    Villagers, relax, it’s gonna be all right…

  238. 238.

    Elie

    Why does Bernie have to shout? That scolding thing just makes him sound old and irritable. He’s gotta think about how to tweak his presentation cause he has a lot to say but he turns off the ability to hook to a lot of receptive people. For example, he could start with a softer warm up that binds him to people, then the jeremiad could begin. People need to be loved first.

  239. 239.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mandalay:

    I think she looks terrific. But I wouldn’t care if she looks like the Witch of Endor as long as she keeps bringing it the way she has tonight.

  241. 241.

    Nicole

    Goddamnit, Hilary. Thanks to the phrasing of your closing remarks, I now have a Chumbawamba ear worm.

  242. 242.

    jl

    @Emerald: But but, so many pundits have told methat Biden is the white centrist savior who can ride in and save the floundering Democrats? They must be right.

  247. 247.

    Jeffro

    @Emerald: never a question here but yes, this should pretty effectively squelch the Biden stuff…no need to run, no constituency she isn’t already addressing quite well, nothing she can’t handle, and easy responses to the Rs’ propaganda. Thanks Kevin McCarthy!

  251. 251.

    CaseyL

    The best thing about the debate was how everyone sounded like an educated adult. HRC did just fine, but I was also impressed by O’Malley – not enough to support him for President; just impressed. I liked Bernie quite a bit, too: his cut-to-the-chase style.

    And, yeah, turned off the TV as soon as I heard the magic words “Wolf Blitzer” and “analysis.” Blech.

  252. 252.

    Elie

    @Nicole:

    Yep. He has a message people need to hear. He has to package it to be a bit different.. to knit it with the themes of unifying our country and taking care of our people. People want to hear it and it sets up the next phase, what we should do. Its all bad, rich are getting richer (which while true, please can you phrase it a little differently — less pedantic) He has to figure out what he needs to say that is positive. There has to be something positive and I never heard it tonight.

    He is a novice to national politics. He has done good in laying out important priorities, but he has to raise his game. He has been used to his audiences and he has to broaden himself to address the broad Democratic constituency…

  254. 254.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    IIRC, Tapper was the one who spent the first half-hour or more of his moderation gig with the Repugs telling each of them some awful thing Trump had said about them and asking them to respond.

    Anderson Cooper was Walter Cronkite David Brinkley and the entire League of Women Voters in comparison. (Please note, I said in comparison.)

  255. 255.

    Steeplejack

    Switched over to local news. They’re leading with a story about a couple who got pulled out of a big house fire.

    Reporter’s voice-over: “They accepted their wedding vows around this time last year. [Names] taking each other for better, for worse, till death do them part. This morning, death nearly did them part.”

    I did a full Danny Thomas spit-take. Maybe you had to hear it, but damn. Imagine full Ron Burgundy serious mode.

  257. 257.

    Mandalay

    @Baud:

    MSNBC has the creepiest looking panel right now.

    Podesta-Mitchell-Walsh. Ugh.

    But so fair and balanced of Matthews to invite the chairman of Clinton’s campaign on immediately after the debate, and ask him how she did.

  258. 258.

    jl

    @SiubhanDuinne: I agree, in comparison. All the moderators were better. But still too many tendentiously loaded questions based in questionable assumptions. And too many chickenshit questions that started ‘X said Y about you, so what do you say back?’

  259. 259.

    Nicole

    @Elie: I agree with you. And I get it; I get how frustrated he is with the current state of affairs, but yeah, he’s got to find some positive to accentuate. And he bobbled a bit on the “socialism vs capitalism” thing. I mean, how hard is it to say something like, “Yes, I’m a socialist. I’ve been around long enough to see that the programs that have done the most to pull people out of poverty- Social Security, Medicare, the GI Bill- are socialist programs. And I’ve seen the wealthy turn socialism into a dirty word, so that they can continue to practice their casino capitalism and steal money and security away from the middle class. But I think Americans are smarter than that.”

    (We’re not, but Bernie, you can lie to us a little) ;)

  260. 260.

    Mandalay

    @amk:

    the loony left

    And who exactly is a member of what you are calling “the loony left”. BLM? Sanders? Those opposed to the status quo for the 1%?

    Just who do you think is loony?

  261. 261.

    amk

    @Mandalay:

    The ones who are fixated (even now) on how Obama let them down and how he didn’t solve all their decades old problems in the first month of presidency.

  263. 263.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Toldja Hillary would start sounding good the moment you actually got to hear what she’s been saying. The national media has been going LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU BENGHAZI TRUMP because they just can’t have anybody talking about issues and helping people. It’s so tacky! And a Democrat? And Hillary Clinton? Ugh!

  264. 264.

    Mandalay

    @amk:

    The ones who are fixated (even now) on how Obama let them down and how he didn’t solve all their decades old problems in the first month of presidency.

    Gotcha. So that’s Jane Hamsher, Cornell West, Tavis Smiley and maybe Michael Moore?

  266. 266.

    jeannedalbret

    @Emerald: Really?

    January 6, 2014

    “The information disclosed by Edward Snowden has been extremely important in allowing Congress and the American people to understand the degree to which the NSA has abused its authority and violated our constitutional rights,” Sanders said in a statement. “On the other hand, there is no debate that Mr. Snowden violated an oath and committed a crime.”

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