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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Open Thread: “Stop Treating Young Women Like Dumbbells”

Open Thread: “Stop Treating Young Women Like Dumbbells”

by Anne Laurie|  October 13, 201512:42 pm| 280 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Excellent Links, Open Threads, Republican Stupidity, Vagina Outrage

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Unfortunately realized we need to set odds on Anderson Cooper asking Hillary a Playboy question.

— Jonathan Bernstein (@jbview) October 13, 2015

Rebecca Traister, at NYMag‘s The Cut:

Free advice to everyone in presidential politics: If you want young women to vote for you, stop treating them like dumbbells.

It is, in fact, embarrassing how often this very basic piece of wisdom has to be doled out. Today’s example comes from Virginia, where, on Wednesday, 18-year-old University of Richmond sophomore Kayla Solsbak raised her hand high in the air from her back-row seat in an auditorium to ask a question of Republican contender John Kasich.

When the Ohio governor met her eye, he laughed and told her, “I’m sorry, I don’t have any Taylor Swift tickets.” The obvious implication of Kasich’s joke: that hysteria for the “Shake It Off” singer is the only thing that would motivate a female student at a campus political gathering to raise her hand with conviction during a town hall forum with a presidential candidate. John Kasich has a rich sense of humor.

But Solsbak didn’t find it funny, and she wrote a really good column about it for the Collegian, in which she reported that Kasich took questions from admiring older fans in the audience while dismissing a question about Planned Parenthood posed by another young woman, making it obvious that, in Solsbak’s works, the candidate believed he could “gain points by belittling me and my peers.”…

This is, of course, a larger representational problem that extends far beyond John Kasich or this year’s presidential election. Though women have had the franchise for just under a century, politicians still seem not to have warmed to them — especially young women — as rigorous political thinkers or participants…

…[T]he problem is that young women — particularly unmarried women — are key to anyone who actually wants to win a national election.

In 2012, unmarried women made up a third of all young voters, and comprised almost a quarter of the total electorate; they voted for Barack Obama over Mitt Romney by 67 to 31 percent. In 2016, the majority of women voters are predicted to be unmarried, according to Page Gardner, founder of the Voter Participation Center. Among that demographic are the students and recent graduates that Republicans seem driven to diminish as dimwits…

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Reader Interactions

280Comments

  1. 1.

    Some guy

    October 13, 2015 at 12:46 pm

    Give em enough rope

  2. 2.

    feebog

    October 13, 2015 at 12:47 pm

    All part of the SUPER SECRET REPUBLICAN OUTREACH PLAN. Alienate Hispanics, Blacks, Asians, young people and women. Then dig up dead people to vote.

  3. 3.

    schlemazel

    October 13, 2015 at 12:49 pm

    Traister’s take is obviously wrong! It is a much wider demographic that “Republicans seem driven to diminish as dimwits”. In fact, it seems that it is every demographic, to the point that only dimwits are going to support them.

  4. 4.

    schlemazel

    October 13, 2015 at 12:51 pm

    @feebog:
    Nah, all they have to do is prevent Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, young people and women from voting and they win. They have been doing really well at that in many places the last few years.

  5. 5.

    Yatsuno

    October 13, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    making it obvious that, in Solsbak’s works

    My kingdom for a copy editor.

    I’m still trying to figure out how the Republicans gets to 270 by alienating everyone but straight white males. What kind of electoral math are they using?

  6. 6.

    benw

    October 13, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    @feebog: Or just prevent those people (ha!) from voting!

    Then dig up dead people to vote.

    Give Zombie Reagan 5,000,000 votes and I smell a Republican presidency!

  7. 7.

    James K. Polk, Esq.

    October 13, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    Now, if only we were able to motivate all the young ladies and gentlemen to vote, something good might actually start.

  8. 8.

    RSA

    October 13, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    @schlemazel:

    Nah, all they have to do is prevent Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, young people and women from voting and they win.

    Of course, because it’s only Real Americans who are left.

  9. 9.

    Peale

    October 13, 2015 at 12:59 pm

    Yeah. I might weep for the Republic were it to happen…Anderson Cooper playing the role of the man outraged by the removal of nude women from Playboy (And What Are YOU Going to do about that, Ms. Clinton?) should be taken as a sign that the end is near.

  10. 10.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 13, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    Women should always be respected, and especially during Navratri or nine nights, the celebration of the female manifestation of divinity in Hinduism. Durga in Bengal, Amba in Gujarat and Maharashtra. Navaratri culminates in Dassera (10th day) which is the most important Hindu festival after Diwali.

  11. 11.

    mdblanche

    October 13, 2015 at 1:01 pm

    I thought Kasich was supposed to be the GOP’s electable moderate candidate. This must be a different Kasich.

  12. 12.

    redshirt

    October 13, 2015 at 1:03 pm

    But but but… CARLY!

    Ergo, Republicans are not sexist.

  13. 13.

    Roger Moore

    October 13, 2015 at 1:04 pm

    Though women have had the franchise for just under a century, male politicians still seem not to have warmed to them — especially young women — as rigorous political thinkers or participants

    FTFY. Let’s be serious. This isn’t a generic “politician” problem; it’s a man problem. Too many men have a tendency to treat women in general as less interesting, less competent, etc. than men.

  14. 14.

    Cervantes

    October 13, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    Traister:

    When the Ohio governor met her eye, he laughed and told her, “I’m sorry, I don’t have any Taylor Swift tickets.”

    That wasn’t even the worst bit of “female outreach” at that one event. Kasich also told a young woman in the audience that he was sure she gets invited to all the parties — and this, out of the blue; she hadn’t even raised her hand to ask him a question.

  15. 15.

    Amir Khalid

    October 13, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    @Peale:
    Anderson Cooper being the way he is, I doubt he cares much about Playboy phasing out pictures of naked women.

  16. 16.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 13, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Forgot to add that Navratri begins tonight.

  17. 17.

    mdblanche

    October 13, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    @Yatsuno: I believe their electoral math makes extensive use of the square roots of negative numbers.

  18. 18.

    MattF

    October 13, 2015 at 1:10 pm

    @mdblanche: I’ve noticed that the Republican candidates all get less attractive as one gets more familiar with their policies (and their personalities). It appears that Kasich is not the exception to this rule.

  19. 19.

    Yatsuno

    October 13, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    @mdblanche: Oh great. We’re in the bistromath of electoral politics.

  20. 20.

    TheMightyTrowel

    October 13, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    @Yatsuno: Republican electoral math:

    White male vote = 1 vote
    Christian white male vote = 2 votes
    Rich white male vote = as many votes as millions of dollars in his bank account
    Non-white vote = at most 3/5 of a vote
    Married White Lady vote = 1 vote if she’s a christian
    All other Lady votes = $.70 votes
    non-white, lgbtqia, lady/non-binary vote = -10 votes

    multiple as necessary based on particular combinations of identity traits then add.

    PROFIT

  21. 21.

    Tata

    October 13, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    What is with BJ resetting itself back to the ad while you try to read comments?

  22. 22.

    SRW1

    October 13, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    @Yatsuno:

    What kind of electoral math are they using?

    Irrational numbers.

  23. 23.

    mdblanche

    October 13, 2015 at 1:19 pm

    @James K. Polk, Esq.:Maybe they would be less cynical if politicians did a better job keeping their campaign promises. We never got fifty-four forty or a fight!

  24. 24.

    Yatsuno

    October 13, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    @TheMightyTrowel: @SRW1: So it’s the math as they add it up and nothing more and nothing less. Gotcha. We here in reality I think can count to 270. And Ben Carson probably thinks he’ll win Maryland because John Hopkins.

  25. 25.

    brantl

    October 13, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    As bad as I feel for the young women, and women in general, for the treatment that they receive from Republicans, I have to say this is Truth-in-Advertising, and I don’t know why it would be any other way, the Republicans being the dipshits that they are.

  26. 26.

    Just One More Canuck

    October 13, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    @SRW1: Skewed, you might say

  27. 27.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    Oh-boy — the Republicans are completely incompetent to do any kind of rational planning, You know its damnned bad when Brooks is running for the exit.

    Problem is that there is no easy fix. They are radically off course and do not have rational members who may be committed to changing their direction. You know how effing bad it is when Rep King of NY is wringing his hands in despair.

    Incompetence is everywhere — in their candidates, their policies towards women, immigrants, foreign policy, the economy — everything! And they are the dominant party in the Congress right now.

    I know everyone here certainly knows our predicament, but to date I haven’t heard many say what some of the possible fixes might be. We are hurtling towards the debt ceiling decision and from what I am able to notice, Boehner remains the best hope to at least raise the ceiling till Dec. Their candidates make statements about shooting down Russian fighter jets in Syria…

  28. 28.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2015 at 1:25 pm

    @Yatsuno: I think they are hoping that if they disgust enough members of your list, they will stay home & not vote.

    I think they are very wrong about that, if that is their strategy.

    Other theory is they think there’s still an untapped reserve of RWNJs who don’t vote (usually) & they are trying to motivate them.

  29. 29.

    Not That Guy

    October 13, 2015 at 1:25 pm

    Rich white male vote = as many votes as millions of dollars in his bank account

    I know this is snark, but I have felt for a while that it is the logical end game of the GOP mindset – let’s give one vote per dollar of net worth, and allow corporations to vote too, and then the Repubs are set – they will never lose. Since your worth in dollars is the same as your actual worth as a human being, it makes perfect sense to them.

  30. 30.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 13, 2015 at 1:27 pm

    “John Kasich has a rich sense of humor.”
    Ummm, not really. But I assume I’m not his audience anyways.

    @redshirt: And how could you forget that stellar character they ran for VP in 2008?

  31. 31.

    Punchy

    October 13, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    Dumbbells? What the hell does that mean? Dumbasses, I understand. Dumbshits, natch. Dumbwaiters, not so much, unless one spends quality time in a lift. But “dumbbells” is just….dumb. Terrible comparison..

  32. 32.

    benw

    October 13, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    @Yatsuno: go stick your head in a pig!

  33. 33.

    Bob

    October 13, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    MH17. I guess you forgot.

  34. 34.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    October 13, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    “Please proceed, Governor.”

  35. 35.

    Cervantes

    October 13, 2015 at 1:30 pm

    @Punchy:

    Dumbbells? What the hell does that mean?

    Fool.

    Has meant that, at least in the US, for a long time.

  36. 36.

    mdblanche

    October 13, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    @RSA: There’s no one left but thee and we, and we’re not sure of thee.

  37. 37.

    NonyNony

    October 13, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    @Elie:

    Oh-boy — the Republicans are completely incompetent to do any kind of rational planning, You know its damnned bad when Brooks is running for the exit.

    To be fair – I suspect that Brooks is only running for the exit because he realizes that the knives are out for a certain kind of Republican and it’s the kind that he self-identifies as. Seeing Boehner and then McCarthy and now Ryan all being taken down by what he has long considered the fringe wing of the party that is only there to supply the votes for the sane tax-cutting wing to hold power probably has him rattled. That group isn’t supposed to have power, they’re supposed to restrict themselves to grumbling about the fact that the moderates won’t ever let them enact their nutty schemes. He is now seeing that the knives are out for people like him, and he’s concerned.

  38. 38.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    @benw: Zaphod for president. Although the guy they found, with the cat, was doing a pretty good job.

  39. 39.

    bemused

    October 13, 2015 at 1:38 pm

    Kasich has two daughters. I wonder how he would feel if a Republican dismissed his daughters’ attempted questions the same way. Oh hell, he’d probably laugh. For all I know, his daughters may think daddy was funny at that forum.

  40. 40.

    NonyNony

    October 13, 2015 at 1:38 pm

    @Punchy:

    US slang for “stupid person””. Cambridge dictionary – definition 2.

    (or if you prefer the OED – definition 2b).

  41. 41.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 1:38 pm

    It would help if the media called out their ridiculousness immediately, rather than playing along or making just subtle criticisms after the fact. They should ask these fools, “do you know what you said, sir or m’am”? A lot of folks would think you mean ——–. Honestly — I fault the media at least 70% because they have played along with this insanity for so long. Call it out — call them out — constantly and directly. They have been sneaking around under a guise of being deemed “normal” as they have gotten more and more crazy and off the rails.

  42. 42.

    Yatsuno

    October 13, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    @catclub: Well they did give the most important job in the universe to the person who was least qualified and who would be the most distracting. Oh shit. NOW I know what Trump is really running for!

    (Don’t Panic!)

  43. 43.

    Frankensteinbeck

    October 13, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    the candidate believed he could “gain points by belittling me and my peers.”…

    Probably he can. As Trump so eloquently demonstrated, the GOP base likes misogyny. And like most GOP assholery, the candidates are not much different from the base. I’m sure he just doesn’t feel like he has to pretend that he respects women. When the GOP hits the general, this will be a problem, but their base has had it with Political Correctness (not being able to say every bigoted thing they believe), and has turned the primary into a race to be the most bigoted.

    @Yatsuno:
    The same electoral math Romney was using. They just plain can’t believe that anyone but white male votes count. White males must vastly outnumber everyone else, with white females being adjuncts who will vote like the men tell them to. They will ‘unskew’ any facts they see to represent this. You hear this from the media all the time, with comments like ‘Oh, he couldn’t have won without the minority vote’, as if that’s just two or three percentage points obtained by a procedural trick rather than reflecting the actual people of America.

  44. 44.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 1:41 pm

    @Paul in KY:

    I think they are hoping that if they disgust enough members of your list, they will stay home & not vote.

    I think complacency is the real enemy. A drawback of no-drama Obama is that many in the country think that he ‘has this’
    and no panic is necessary, translates into not needing to vote every time. That is one thing that the people saying today that
    ‘the world is on fire’ do not feel. I wonder what they are looking at to think that the world is on fire, but I still vote.

    2006 was the midterm election we need to bring back, in terms of participation. I do not know how to do that while saying that a lot of things are getting better, just not as fast as they could.

  45. 45.

    MattF

    October 13, 2015 at 1:42 pm

    @NonyNony: He’s choosing sides. As you say, he has, in fact, already chosen– and he’s hoping the ‘establishment’ will prevail, eventually. Problem is, the establishment needs the lunatic vote to hold on to their current, somewhat tenuous, power.

    Speaking of which, Kevin Drum has a nice summary of Carson’s, um… unconventional views.

  46. 46.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    @NonyNony:

    That is likely true, but his column is still quite strong. Even if he is personally concerned for his own hide, it doesn’t change the truth of what he writes, or that there may actually be a journalist in there who realizes things are very very bad. Of course, he had a lot to do with building the monster, but that doesn’t change what he says and that he is a relatively important MSM figure who used to give them cover and through that, the license to get ever more extreme. Of note, (minor observation) his columns usually have a comment section. Not today.

  47. 47.

    Mandalay

    October 13, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    Some surprising good news…

    A woman accused of firing a gun at the vehicle of a fleeing shoplifter in Auburn Hills was charged today with a misdemeanor count of reckless use, handling or discharge of a firearm.

    Tatiana Duva-Rodriguez, 46, of Clarkston is accused of shooting at the tires of a vehicle last week in the “misguided attempt to disable the vehicle to stop two reported shoplifters,” at a Home Depot on Joslyn Road, according to a press release issued this morning by the Oakland County Prosecutor’s Office and the Auburn Hills Police Department.

  48. 48.

    Citizen Alan

    October 13, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    @Tata:

    Oh thank God! I thought my computer was crashing!

  49. 49.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    @TheMightyTrowel: Well done! It was funnier before it made me sad that it’s so true.

  50. 50.

    MattF

    October 13, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    @Elie: No, I’m able to see the comments. 1675 of them, it says here.

  51. 51.

    raven

    October 13, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    Lil Bit post surgery.

  52. 52.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    @MattF: well understated.

    Drum: Ben Carson Is a Paranoid Nutcase

  53. 53.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    @Citizen Alan: @Tata: Get thee to an Ad Blocker!

  54. 54.

    beltane

    October 13, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    @Elie: Hmm. There were comments on the Brooks piece when I read it this morning. Interesting that the comments section has been closed since then. Most of the comments were either critical of Brooks for being so late in seeing this coming, or critical of Brooks for helping to provide the GOP “cover” as they slowly descended into madness over the past few decades.

  55. 55.

    dedc79

    October 13, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    Surprising music news of the day: Conde Nast bought Pitchfork

  56. 56.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    @MattF:

    Hmmm — maybe a glitch when I read it.

    Thanks. They are frequently as good or better than the columns, so I am glad.

  57. 57.

    TheMightyTrowel

    October 13, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    @WaterGirl: Sorry for the sad. I feel it too, fwiw

  58. 58.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    Planned Parenthood takes the very obvious and inexplicably delayed step of declining reimbursement for handling fetal tissue donations.

    I do not see this as obvious. I think they should continue to take the fees for their costs. the change will get them no credit, nor change any minds.

  59. 59.

    MattF

    October 13, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    @MattF: And now, 1695 comments. So the comments section is still active.

  60. 60.

    Jeffro

    October 13, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    @Elie: I’ll believe Bobo is really, truly serious, when he wraps up a column (even one as relatively good & grounded in reality as this one) with this: “Teach these ‘insurgents [who] are incompetent at governing and unwilling to be governed’ a lesson: vote for the Democrat. It is the only language they’ll understand.”

    But he just can’t bring himself to contemplate it, can he? The horror!

  61. 61.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    @catclub:

    Eugene Robinson also had a column on Carson that didn’t mince words.

    Good. DAMNED GOOD. Call these fkrs out, for gosh sakes!

  62. 62.

    MazeDancer

    October 13, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    @Tata:

    Can’t scroll comments on an iPad while a page is loading. It will just keep returning to somewhere near the top. The hang-up on a page loading is almost always an ad, or three. Site has no control over network delivering ad.

    Watch the spinning circle at the top left, when the page is loaded, the circle stops.

  63. 63.

    srv

    October 13, 2015 at 1:52 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: Trump is the prototypical non-bigot. Trump has demonstrably applied equal opportunity billitlement for decades. Male/female, white/black, conservative/liberal, rich/poor.

    You PC folks are so entrenched in your epistemological closed lathersphere you only hear the offenses you want to hear. When he bellitles RINOs or the rich, you people hoot.

  64. 64.

    boatboy_srq

    October 13, 2015 at 1:52 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    As Trump so eloquently demonstrated, the GOP base likes misogyny. And like most GOP assholery, the candidates are not much different from the base. I’m sure he just doesn’t feel like he has to pretend that he respects women. When the GOP hits the general, this will be a problem, but their base has had it with Political Correctness (not being able to say every bigoted thing they believe), and has turned the primary into a race to be the most bigoted.

    Don’t forget that this is part of the dark side of Tentherism: by stripping off the 11th Amendment onward, they void 1-person-1-vote voting rights for slaves Those People and votes for women among their other wins. It’s a big part of Tentherism, but it’s a part the “Original Intent” crowd doesn’t talk about.

  65. 65.

    Cervantes

    October 13, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    @Jeffro:

    vote for the Democrat. It is the only language they’ll understand.”

    Even that is a bit optimistic. Their first instinct is to complain about voter fraud.

  66. 66.

    Jeffro

    October 13, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    @NonyNony:

    To be fair – I suspect that Brooks is only running for the exit because he realizes that the knives are out for a certain kind of Republican and it’s the kind that he self-identifies as

    Brooks should join the Democratic Party. Ugh, I can’t believe I said it, but there it is. His party has left him completely, and the Dems are the party of the middle. Heck, Kaisch could practically come over too – we’ll send Webb over in exchange.

  67. 67.

    Jeffro

    October 13, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    @Elie: Robinson did seriously put it out there, and good for him – Carson is nuts and shouldn’t be in charge of his own breakfast choices at this point.

  68. 68.

    boatboy_srq

    October 13, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    @Jeffro: Three decades (mimimum) of “Democrats bad” is a hard habit to break. Even when it’s clear that Dems are the only sane ones in the public sector. It’s the early programming that’s most difficult to undo.

  69. 69.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    @TheMightyTrowel: Congratulations on your latest book, by the way. I think it’s a big fucking Joe Biden deal to be the author of a textbook.

  70. 70.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    @catclub:

    agree with you.

    BTW (not that it matters), they collect the tissue in only two states, CA and WA. This tissue is very much needed and believe me, procedures in regular outpatient settings have this tissue collected and contributed all the time… it is NECESSARY. (bold is not for you– I know you know and people here — its MY emotion about this)

  71. 71.

    NonyNony

    October 13, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    @Jeffro:

    Heck, Kaisch could practically come over too – we’ll send Webb over in exchange.

    Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s not get hasty here.

  72. 72.

    Hungry Joe

    October 13, 2015 at 1:56 pm

    Saw about ten seconds of CNN yesterday. It was an accident, I swear: I was helping my mom set up her new TV system.* Anyway, on screen was a running countdown — time till the debate in hours, minutes, and seconds. Wolfie was in full manic-idiot mode.

    * Which of course I screwed up. Tech is coming later today.

  73. 73.

    MattF

    October 13, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    @Jeffro: Even Jen Rubin agrees. And I’d have a review board go over her breakfast choices.

  74. 74.

    JPL

    October 13, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    @raven: Poor baby..

  75. 75.

    Amir Khalid

    October 13, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    @srv:

    billitlement

    ??

  76. 76.

    CaseyL

    October 13, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    @raven: Oh, poor Lil Bit doesn’t look like a happy camper. But she does look like she’s resting comfortably, at least! How long will she be hors de combat?

  77. 77.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    @TheMightyTrowel:

    I join in congratulating you on doing a text book! WoW! (since I missed this info, what is the textbook on)

  78. 78.

    Jeffro

    October 13, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    @NonyNony: I would take that trade straight up, but you’re probably right – we could throw in Chaffee, Lessig, and Manchin too.

  79. 79.

    TheMightyTrowel

    October 13, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    @WaterGirl: Hardly a textbook but a few specialists will like it. Thank you!

    ETA

    @Elie: It’s not a text book, it’s a specialist volumes on a certain type of stone tool technology. Small circle of interested peers, but still a great feeling to have it done!

  80. 80.

    srv

    October 13, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    Live from New York, it’s Donald Trump!

    The GOP presidential frontrunner and real estate magnate will host NBC’s “Saturday Night Live” on November 7, the show announced Tuesday.

    His appearance comes almost exactly a year before Election Day, which will fall on November 8, 2016.

    Mainstream, not lamestream like Jebito.

  81. 81.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    I have fantasy sports questions.

    1) How can there be daily games for fantasy football if there are only games on three days a week?
    With only one game on Monday night?

    2) is the cost of players determined by the bidding for them, so that a cheaper lineup can outperform
    expectations and have a positive payback? or do you set a lineup and pay a fixed entry fee for that lineup?

    nagging questions.

  82. 82.

    raven

    October 13, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    @CaseyL: She’s got to lay low for 10 days or so. Then we hit the rehab. Apparently scar tissue takes over for the missing ligament once the suture dissolves.

  83. 83.

    boatboy_srq

    October 13, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    @NonyNony:

    To be fair – I suspect that Brooks is only running for the exit because he realizes that the knives are out for a certain kind of Republican and it’s the kind that he self-identifies as.

    Those of us who bailed earlier identified the disease in its Gingrichian incubation or Shrubbery infestation. Later Expublicans are either fleeing the pandemic or being rejected by the disease itself. Sooner or later there won’t be anyone in the party but the 0.001% and the terminally crazy.

    Regardless, the Incredible Shrinking Party is doing a very good job of killing itself.

    More popcorn?

  84. 84.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    @TheMightyTrowel:

    Stone tool like archeological stone tools?

  85. 85.

    Jeffro

    October 13, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    @MattF: I picture mine and Jen’s policy/political views as a Venn diagram, two circles that only tangentially converged, now and forever, at this particular one point (Carson) and yet, I’ll take it.

    Maybe we could do a joint PSA to get him & his supporters the help they so desperately need? I’m willing to do it, reputation be damned.

  86. 86.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 13, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    @raven:

    She looks surprisingly perky. Hope everything went well for her.

  87. 87.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 13, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    @Amir Khalid: The progressive reduction of monthly heating costs, as natural gas prices decrease.

  88. 88.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    October 13, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    @Elie:

    “Government doesn’t work! Vote for us and we’ll prove it!”

  89. 89.

    raven

    October 13, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yea she’s fine. She want a cookie or she sleeps, same as it ever was.

  90. 90.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 13, 2015 at 2:07 pm

    @Jeffro: I think it has become my job, as the Rhode Islander who logs on here during the day (efgoldman is more of a night owl) to point out that Chafee has only one F. Seems everyone’s instinct is to use two.

  91. 91.

    TheMightyTrowel

    October 13, 2015 at 2:07 pm

    @Elie: what else would the mightiest of trowels be writing about? ;-)

  92. 92.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 2:07 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: I thought it was reference to Raven’s dog Little Bit.

  93. 93.

    Gimlet

    October 13, 2015 at 2:07 pm

    http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/remember-obamas-historic-2008-presidential-run-bernie-sanders-so-far-exceeding-it

    In three key areas, Sanders is actually exceeding the insurgent campaign Barack Obama ran in 2007 and 2008.

    Over the summer, it became clear that Sanders was drawing some of the largest crowds in Democratic primary history, with tens of thousands pouring out into cities to see the senator.

    Up until this point in 2007, the largest rally Obama had held was in New York City, our nation’s most populated location, which brought out 24,000 people. Sanders has exceeded that in numerous locations that are actually much smaller in population: Boston, Portland and Los Angeles. Earlier this month, Sanders set a record for the largest Democratic primary rally in Boston’s recorded history.

    At the end of September, the Sanders campaign announced it had hit one million donations — faster than any presidential campaign in history. This was a target the Obama campaign did not hit until February 2008 during his challenge to Hillary Clinton. Perhaps even more remarkable is that this milestone was achieved with an average contribution of $24.86

    In early October, Obama was at 22.6 percent to Hillary Clinton’s 48.2 percent. Sanders is at 25.4 percent to 42 percent for Hillary Clinton, meaning that the gap is around 17 points, when it was 26 points between Obama and Hillary at this time.

  94. 94.

    Cacti

    October 13, 2015 at 2:08 pm

    Q: What do you call the groups of people that Republicans are “driven to diminish as dimwits”?

    A: A Democratic majority.

    Please proceed, Governor.

  95. 95.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 2:08 pm

    @boatboy_srq:

    Charles Pierce calls it the Republican prion disease. That is a pretty apt description of an insidious infection caused by a subviral sized DNA/RNA fragment that barely fits the definition of a living life form, yet renders the infected brain non-functional in every meaningful way — but esp the cognitive centers.

    From the CDC web site:

    Prion diseases or transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) are a family of rare progressive neurodegenerative disorders that affect both humans and animals. They are distinguished by long incubation periods, characteristic spongiform changes associated with neuronal loss, and a failure to induce inflammatory response.

    The causative agents of TSEs are believed to be prions. The term “prions” refers to abnormal, pathogenic agents that are transmissible and are able to induce abnormal folding of specific normal cellular proteins called prion proteins that are found most abundantly in the brain. The functions of these normal prion proteins are still not completely understood. The abnormal folding of the prion proteins leads to brain damage and the characteristic signs and symptoms of the disease. Prion diseases are usually rapidly progressive and always fatal

  96. 96.

    ruemara

    October 13, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    @Yatsuno: Disenfranchise everyone else, win.

  97. 97.

    pat

    October 13, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    @Elie:

    Thanks for the link to Brooks’ column. This could be the Cronkite in Vietnam moment…. I hope Brooks is reading the 1600+ comments!

  98. 98.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    @TheMightyTrowel:

    LOL — that IS true.. :-)

  99. 99.

    redshirt

    October 13, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    @catclub:

    I have fantasy sports questions.

    1) How can there be daily games for fantasy football if there are only games on three days a week?
    With only one game on Monday night?

    2) is the cost of players determined by the bidding for them, so that a cheaper lineup can outperform
    expectations and have a positive payback? or do you set a lineup and pay a fixed entry fee for that lineup?

    nagging questions.

    1. Do they have competitions tonight? I don’t see how as no one’s playing. Maybe it’s an open competition that finishes next monday night?

    2. Yes. Players go up and down in value based on how they’ve scored previously and how often they are picked. So yes, if you can find a hot up and comer, they’ll be cheap and could score you a lot of points, and not a lot of other people will be using them, giving you an advantage.

  100. 100.

    Peale

    October 13, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    @Jeffro: Honestly, let the entitlement cutters start their own party. Of course I’d like to bring as many people into the party as possible – but these are the guys who think they can arrive late and still run the show. He can go to Pete Petersen and ask him to fund a party. Or go to no labels.

  101. 101.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 2:13 pm

    @Mandalay:
    My stars, what a shocker. Kickstarter for her legal defense fund appearing in three, two, one….

  102. 102.

    Bobby Thomson

    October 13, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    @mdblanche: I see what you did there.

  103. 103.

    WaterGirl

    October 13, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    @raven: She looks pretty good, all things considered!

    Still, I will bake her a cake cookie with a file in it and send it your way.

  104. 104.

    gvg

    October 13, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    I have had the anti scroll problem on this site twice but have had good luck clearing history/cache/cookies. It was very annoying until I managed to find that solution and it hasn’t been that long so I don’t know it will keep working but I recommend trying it.

  105. 105.

    mdblanche

    October 13, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    @Jeffro: Chafee was traded to us by the GOP several purges ago. I don’t think he’s eligible to be traded back.

  106. 106.

    srv

    October 13, 2015 at 2:19 pm

    Biden bails, unless Jeb’s daddy still has his SR-71 stashed somewhere:

    It doesn’t look like CNN’s extra lectern will get its moment under the lights.

    Vice President Joe Biden put to rest rumors that he’d scramble Air Force Two at the last minute to appear in CNN’s Democratic debate in Las Vegas with a Twitter post on Tuesday. The network had prepared a sixth lectern in case the vice president declared his candidacy at the last minute and wanted to take part.

    “Update: VP Biden will join @POTUS and @LorettaLynch in their Oval Office meeting at 2:45 PM,” his Twitter account posted late Tuesday morning.

  107. 107.

    Bobby Thomson

    October 13, 2015 at 2:19 pm

    @catclub: if you can find a Republican pedophile in Congress who got cover from another pedophile . . . .

  108. 108.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 2:20 pm

    @redshirt: Thanks! Ritholtz had a piece on fantasy sports and mentioned that if you cannot lose on purpose ( or attempting to lose, loses no more than attempting to win), it is gambling. I think it is a lot like gambling.

    He also had a statistic that the top 10 of 20,000 or so had 873 wins, while the rest had something like 76 wins. This means
    the VERY skilled (or those with deep resources), can do very well, but there are a LOT of people they are taking money from.

  109. 109.

    beltane

    October 13, 2015 at 2:21 pm

    It would be a mistake to read too much into David Brook’s apparent change of heart. He hasn’t had a change of heart at all. Today’s column was just a more angst-y than usual version of the “Conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed” mantra.

  110. 110.

    Calouste

    October 13, 2015 at 2:23 pm

    @Gimlet: Fairly meaningless comparisons, considering the 8 year gap since Obama first ran. Of course Sanders is going to be faster to 1 million donors, there are 7-8% more people in the United States than 8 years ago, internet usage (a big conduct for small donations) has gone up from 74% to 87%, and people are in somewhat better financial circumstances than at the start of the Great Recession.

    Sanders is also of course using the lesson learned by the Obama campaign in 2007-8, he better do better considering the excellent example he can follow.

  111. 111.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2015 at 2:25 pm

    OT: Speaking of dumbbells: Ms. Stand Your Home Depot has been charged. The prosecutor’s advice: use a camera next time.

    NY Times: Woman in Michigan Charged After Shooting at Fleeing Shoplifters

    A Michigan woman was charged Tuesday with reckless use of a handgun after firing at a vehicle carrying shoplifters fleeing a Home Depot.

    Instead of a “misguided attempt” to stop the vehicle using her gun, the woman, Tatiana Duva-Rodriguez, 46, of Clarkston, should have tried to take a picture of the license plate, the Oakland County prosecutor said.

    …. The episode unfolded last week, the police said, when a man at a Home Depot in Auburn Hills, a suburb of Detroit, loaded a shopping cart with about $1,100 in merchandise, including power tools, a welder and a nail gun. He wheeled the cart past the cash registers and out the door, sprinting through the parking lot to a driver in a waiting sport utility vehicle, where the goods were loaded. The vehicle then sped off.

    A Home Depot employee gave chase, yelling “stop” to no avail. And then another sound rang out: gunfire.

    … On Tuesday, Ms. Duva-Rodriguez was charged with one count of reckless use, handling or discharge of a firearm. The shoplifting suspects initially escaped, but two men were arrested in the case several days later.

    But more dumbbells stand armed and at the ready:

    In an incident similar to the one at Home Depot, a shopper on Monday fired at people believed to be shoplifters in a store parking lot in Elkhart, Ind., the police said. An armed shopper joined store employees who were chasing two people and fired when they got into their car, the police said.

    On the Auburn Hills Police Department’s Facebook page, the video of the Home Depot shoplifter got thousands of views and drew comments …

    “Why is it O.K. to shoot at a car of a shoplifter?” one person wrote.

    “It should be O.K.,” another replied.

    “Really?” wrote a third. “Letting anyone shoot at people to protect the inanimate consumer goods of a giant corporation is more important than a human life?”

    ETA: Mandalay got here first, comment 47. I screened the thread with “Michigan” and it didn’t turn up…

  112. 112.

    redshirt

    October 13, 2015 at 2:25 pm

    @catclub:

    He also had a statistic that the top 10 of 20,000 or so had 873 wins, while the rest had something like 76 wins. This means
    the VERY skilled (or those with deep resources), can do very well, but there are a LOT of people they are taking money from.

    It seems probable now that many of those top accounts are employees of Draftkings and Fanduel.

    I don’t think these services will be around for much longer once the corruption is fully revealed.

  113. 113.

    Jeffro

    October 13, 2015 at 2:26 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: My badd.

  114. 114.

    Calouste

    October 13, 2015 at 2:26 pm

    @catclub: There was an article recently that showed that employees from the fantasy sports sites were playing on their competitors’ sites using the information gathered from their own site, and making out like bandits. One of them won $350,000 or so.

  115. 115.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    I mis-paraphrased above. Here is a better quote:

    There’s a quick and easy way to test whether an activity involves skill; ask whether you can lose on purpose. In games of skill, it’s clear that you can lose intentionally but when playing roulette or the lottery you can’t lose on purpose”

    It looks like fantasy sports are a little of both.

  116. 116.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 2:29 pm

    @redshirt:

    I don’t think these services will be around for much longer once the corruption is fully revealed.

    I think there are enough people who are desperate to play, that they will probably stay around a long time. Plus, the government is weak at regulating new things quickly, so they will say they are self-regulating, and some people will believe them.

  117. 117.

    Jeffro

    October 13, 2015 at 2:29 pm

    @beltane:

    Today’s column was just a more angst-y than usual version of the “Conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed” mantra.

    That is a great point – it’s not that conservatism was failed in “1,000 little ways” or however he said it, it’s more that we’ve had 1,000 stark examples of full-on conservatism in this country since 1980, and they’ve all sucked.

  118. 118.

    Cacti

    October 13, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    @Gimlet:

    In early October, Obama was at 22.6 percent to Hillary Clinton’s 48.2 percent. Sanders is at 25.4 percent to 42 percent for Hillary Clinton, meaning that the gap is around 17 points, when it was 26 points between Obama and Hillary at this time.

    Sanders is at 25.4 percent to 42 percent for Hillary Clinton…

    With imaginary candidate Biden in the race, pulling about 17-20 percent of the vote. Without Biden in the race, Clinton is the second choice of putative Biden voters by 20+ points.

  119. 119.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    @Calouste: Oh yes, I had seen that. I was just puzzled by the ads for daily fantasy games for an event that does not happen on most days.

  120. 120.

    rikyrah

    October 13, 2015 at 2:31 pm

    the smart one is at it again:

    Zeke MillerVerified account‏@ZekeJMiller
    Jeb: “Being on Medicaid isn’t necessarily better than being uninsured”

  121. 121.

    Peale

    October 13, 2015 at 2:32 pm

    @Elizabelle: We wouldn’t need police if every time there was a commotion, people were willing to draw their guns like this hero. Just pick a side and hope its the right one.

  122. 122.

    Peale

    October 13, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    @catclub: Yep. I’m remembering now that the government shut down rentboy.com last month after it openly and very publicly operated for almost 15 years. It takes awhile and by the time they do shut it down, there will be a large constituency of the fleeced who will support it. Heck, even in states that have sold their lotteries and no longer put that money into education as promised can’t be rebanned.

  123. 123.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    @srv:
    That’s not “bailing”; that’s doing what the smart people knew he’d do all along.

  124. 124.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    @rikyrah: Damn it. Jeb! taking away the glamour of being on Medicaid.

    There’s a truth teller for you.

  125. 125.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 2:39 pm

    @rikyrah:
    Instead of opening his word hole, jeb[yawn] should just hand out those sacks of Brinks. Trucks. Cash. directly to folks. He’d improve his status that way.

  126. 126.

    raven

    October 13, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    @WaterGirl: She’s pretty funny. She look out with that sad face and them goes to sleep!

  127. 127.

    Keith G

    October 13, 2015 at 2:42 pm

    Kevin Drum previews tonight’s multi candidate discussion featuring the Democrats.

  128. 128.

    Amir Khalid

    October 13, 2015 at 2:42 pm

    @srv:
    Joe’s not running. That’s been clear for a while now, even if for whatever reason he can’t actually say it yet. He has no reason to be at the debate.

  129. 129.

    beltane

    October 13, 2015 at 2:43 pm

    @trollhattan: I was trying to explain this to the troll last night. If Jeb used some of that Unlimited Corporate Cash to buy people presents, he’d be a lot more popular. No one likes seeing political ads on TV but they do like getting gift cards. Jebby knows the pleasures of getting free stuff better than just about anyone else.

  130. 130.

    ruemara

    October 13, 2015 at 2:45 pm

    @beltane: exactly. I don’t expect to see him endorsing a Dem unless it’s Joe Lieberman.

  131. 131.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2015 at 2:45 pm

    @raven: Poor fing…

  132. 132.

    Poopyman

    October 13, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Joe’s just engaging in one of his hobbies, trolling Republicans and the media.

    But I repeat myself.

  133. 133.

    Botsplainer

    October 13, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    He never was going to run. That was some epic damned trolling aimed straight at Politico, which winds up looking even more stupid than usual.

  134. 134.

    rikyrah

    October 13, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    uh huh
    uh huh

    …………………

    What top Clinton donors really think

    Behind the scenes with Hillary’s big-money elite.

    By Annie Karni

    10/12/15 05:32 PM EDT

    SAN FRANCISCO — As Hillary Clinton heads into the first Democratic debate Tuesday, some of her top donors and allies are feeling encouraged for the first time in months.

    But they’re also filled with deep anxiety about Joe Biden’s potential candidacy, a prospect that stands to sow the seeds of division just as they see Clinton moving beyond the email controversy to a place where her personality and policy command are breaking through.

    ……………………

    I’m concerned that the first bumpy road she hits — and there’s a man ready to knock her out, I’ve seen this before,” said Kounalakis, a close Clinton ally who is hosting a fundraiser in San Francisco for Clinton in November, and is viewed as potentially a major donor in 2016. “I’m worried we’re not accustomed to having a woman candidate at this level, and we don’t have the language to fight sexist attacks.”

    Buell, who over the past 10 years has given $25 million to progressive groups and candidates, shook her head at the prospect of a Biden candidacy.

    “Why would he want to go out on such a negative?” she asked her friends. Buell has a complicated history with the Obama administration: she had a difficult time coming around to Obama in 2008 after he defeated Clinton in the primary, and refused to support his 2012 reelection, saying she was disappointed in how he was dealing with environmental issues.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/hillary-clinton-joe-biden-donors-214668#ixzz3oTWJChiB

  135. 135.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 2:47 pm

    To me, age DOES matter in relation to the office of the US Presidency. It is a brutal, taxing endurance trial that stresses even the best prepared both physically and mentally. Besides their policy positions and ideas, here are the ages of current leading candidates, both Democratic and Republican:

    Democratic:

    Hillary Clinton: age 67. Currently healthy but did have a fall with neurologic consequences a couple of years ago. Not sure if it was a TIA or what but that is what we know.

    Bernie Sanders: age 74. No known health issues but the oldest of all declared candidates of either party

    Joe Biden (undeclared but probably non candidate): 72 years old

    Non candidate but popular Governor of CA, Jerry Brown: 77 years old

    Republicans:

    Carly Fiorina – 61 years old. A liar and incompetent business person
    Ben Carson – 64 years old. Stone cold crazy man but excellent brain surgeon
    Donald Trump – 69 years old. Showboat self promoter

    Something to think about as we view the current bizarre political climate.

  136. 136.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 2:47 pm

    @beltane:
    When I added up everything Meg Whitman spent trying to buy the California governorship (her $ plus funds raised) it worked out to sixty-something bucks per vote in the general. Just imagine how many votes she’d have gotten giving out $25 Target gift cards instead! Jerry would still be AG.

  137. 137.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2015 at 2:48 pm

    @raven: Lil Bit’s darling little bandaged leg, and the IV bandaid.

    Plz get her and Bohdi treats from “us” tonight. Hope LB recovers just fine.

  138. 138.

    Fair Economist

    October 13, 2015 at 2:48 pm

    @Jeffro:

    His party has left him completely, and the Dems are the party of the middle.

    The Dems are also the party of “conservatives” by Brooks’ definition, which is:

    By traditional definitions, conservatism stands for intellectual humility, a belief in steady, incremental change, a preference for reform rather than revolution, a respect for hierarchy, precedence, balance and order, and a tone of voice that is prudent, measured and responsible

    Brooks is not recognizing recent shifts in meaning. The word for such people today is “Iiberal”.

  139. 139.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2015 at 2:49 pm

    @Elie: Meanwhile, our sleek as a seal lithe duck President is 54 years old, as he heads into his last full year in office.

  140. 140.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    @Elie:
    The compare-and-contrast of Obama and McCain on the stump and especially in the debates was glaring, and not in McCain’s favor. I don’t know that McCain would have survived the rigors of office, and we all know what that meant.

    OTOH the way old Handsome Joe smacked around frat boy Ryan four years later was striking [sorry] in how if flipped the text.

  141. 141.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    @Fair Economist: What bothers me is that people who come to Brooks’ possible epiphany then say “third party! We need more parties!”

    GOP has made the Democratic party uncool and all wimmeny for too many. It’s like they fear emasculation if they risk an embrace.

    I have more respect for those who applaud those who have been walking the walk throughout, rather than those who imagine a third way that does not exist.

  142. 142.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    Yes — sigh….

  143. 143.

    beltane

    October 13, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    @trollhattan: Can you imagine Jeb standing out in a Walmart parking lot-preferably in the rain-handing out gift cards to people who promised to vote for him? Not all the hand sanitizer in the world could get him to do that.

  144. 144.

    Kay

    October 13, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    in Solsbak’s works, the candidate believed he could “gain points by belittling me and my peers.”…

    He just likes to belittle people because he’s an arrogant jackass who thinks he’s a private sector CEO rather than a politician. I’m glad that’s showing up on the national stage though.

  145. 145.

    redshirt

    October 13, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    @catclub:

    Oh yes, I had seen that. I was just puzzled by the ads for daily fantasy games for an event that does not happen on most days.

    There’s fantasy for all the other sports too, so there’s always some event going on.

    Heaven help Fantasy Baseball players.

  146. 146.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    @srv: I enjoy laughing at him, so I might watch.

  147. 147.

    goblue72

    October 13, 2015 at 2:54 pm

    @redshirt: A-yup. A fool and his money are easily parted. I’m a semi-regular sportsfan – mostly MLB and college & pro football. I participate periodically in friendly fantasy leagues with a group of buddies. I’ve never seen DraftKings or FanDuel as anything other than pure gambling, with about the same odds as playing the slots.

  148. 148.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 13, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    Holy crap. McConnell appears ready to declare cuts to SS and Medicare as the hostages for raising the debt ceiling. It would be cuts to SS COLA and limiting Medicare for those with high incomes plus raising the age.

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/13/politics/mitch-mcconnell-entitlement-changes-fiscal-talks/index.html

    The Ds need to get on the stick and trumpet this from the mountaintops.

  149. 149.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Oh I agree — in the short term you can have a good show by an older candidate. I am worried about the part after they are elected… Biden DID smack around Ryan… he was 5 years younger at the time also (not that results would be different now, but time does pass)

  150. 150.

    sharl

    October 13, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    Welp, I guess it had to happen. Someone took a look at all the Gen-Y/Millenial folks on Weird/Irony Twitter and thought, hey, what if we could get a bunch of them to post longer stuff in one place. So sometime in the last 24 hours, CAFE was born.

    So nice to see a number of my favorite bright young smart-asses in one place, including this post from political columnist Carl “The Dig” Diggler (aka @VirgilTexas): Debate Preview: Why My Money’s on Jim Webb

    Aaaaand, of course, guess who tweeted this out (sincerely, I assume)? Though I have my issues with Mr. Webb, I feel kinda bad for him here, although he may have seen through the irony and decided to retweet anyway, figuring that any publicity is good publicity at this point, given his poll ranking.

    What a time to be alive!

    ETA: Last link fixed (I hope).

  151. 151.

    goblue72

    October 13, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Please please please please please please please let this be true. Dear God please.

    They have completely lost their minds. We should let them do so. In Prime Time. Under the spotlights.

    There’s a large enough constituency of pissed off liberals out there at this point fully ready to respond with “F.U. that’s our answer. Our counter-offer: raise Social Security.”

    I hope this comes up at the Democratic debate. Oh please!

  152. 152.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 3:00 pm

    For the Democrats, VP selection is going to be very important. This can’t just be a popular democrat, but a hopefully younger and sharp, hopefully experienced (gov or senate?) upcoming democrat…

  153. 153.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    @Elizabelle: How in the Sam Hell can the GOP be ‘cool’?!?!? Look at all the freakjobs in it & religious nutters. Since when have they been ‘cool’?!

  154. 154.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    @goblue72:

    I would be very very careful what we wish for right through here…. very careful. We have a bunch of crazy people with gasoline and matches…We should be very careful with our tactics — these are not throw away gestures….

  155. 155.

    rikyrah

    October 13, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    And they will never invite him on shows, because they poo-pooed his theories in the first place.

    …………..

    What The Big GOP Meltdown Reveals From A Guy Who Saw It All Coming
    ByTierney Sneed
    Published October 13, 2015, 6:00 AM EDT

    The epic GOP meltdown of 2015 should not come as a surprise.

    The modern Republican Party had been careening toward this kind of wheels-off-the-track moment for a long time. Its knee-jerk rejectionism, high-stakes brinksmanship, strict demands for ideological purity, and willingness to take hostages had been on display in one form or another in a series of political clashes since the 1990s.

    But you knew that already if you read the 2012 book “It’s Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided With the New Politics of Extremism.” While not predicting the current GOP leadership crisis, it sounded the alarm that the party was on a dangerous course and taking the country with it. The book argued that responsible governance had been severely crippled by the Republican Party’s push to the right and its adoption of take-no-prisoners politicking.

    TPM asked one of the co-authors if he was feeling any vindication.

    “Damn straight I do,” Norman Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, said in an interview with TPM late last week. “But I would have rather been proven wrong — honest to God — because we’re talking about the fucking country that is at stake here.”

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/ornstein-gop-meltdown

  156. 156.

    Karen

    October 13, 2015 at 3:04 pm

    I thought the whole point was to discourage single women from wanting to vote. Like how they have with Latinos, African Americans. They’d rather do that than try to get them to vote for them.

  157. 157.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 3:05 pm

    @Elie:
    Yeah, to expand I don’t wish a campaign on Handsome Joe at this juncture. His evident emotional vulnerability so on display during the Colbert interview was heart-ripping. Absent that I still would have qualms but I also don’t subscribe to the notion Hillary’s brand is too damaged to win and we need Joe to come save the day. Just look at the competition.

    BTW, if anybody caught Maher last week Sully was on and hysterically [I use the term intentionally] anti-Hillary the way only Sully can be. Given I stopped reading him years ago I wasn’t up on his dead-to-me list. Good times.

  158. 158.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 3:06 pm

    @Elie:
    My simple solution: Julian Castro.

    He was great at the DNC and would be the perfect choice in a zillion ways.

  159. 159.

    Fair Economist

    October 13, 2015 at 3:07 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    What bothers me is that people who come to Brooks’ possible epiphany then say “third party! We need more parties!”

    GOP has made the Democratic party uncool and all wimmeny for too many. It’s like they fear emasculation if they risk an embrace.

    Yes, there is some of that. But I think more of that is that the agenda for Brooks and people like him has always been about preserving and expanding their privilege. Of course, that’s the other part of “conservatism” that Brooks doesn’t mention in his definition. His fundamental problem is that traditional conservatism is no longer possible because it’s no longer possible to make any case for increasing inequality, police privilege, etc. So now his choice is either nutcase reactionaries, or the sober milquetoast modern “liberals” who don’t want to end *all* his privileges – but still want to end some. Hence the “third party” cry – not realizing the fundamental problem is reality.

  160. 160.

    Frankensteinbeck

    October 13, 2015 at 3:08 pm

    @Fair Economist:
    Brooks is talking around the real point, because his ego drives him to think of himself in all those glowing terms. He likes most modern conservative positions. He misses having them publicly discussed as adult, responsible, rational, mainstream topics. All this talk of deporting Mexican rapists and murderers is making it hard for him to discuss whether Americans would be more hard-working, successful, and virtuous if we strengthened immigration laws and removed minimum wages, giving Americans a motivation to perform American jobs and thus bring happiness and prosperity to all.

  161. 161.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 3:09 pm

    @trollhattan:

    I agree about Joe… I think that is not an option. Its between Hillary and Bernie. We need very strong VP candidates and its not too early to be thinking about who these might be. To tell you the truth, I am a little worried cause we don’t have many eligible governors or strong senate possibles (at least none I can think of)

    Fk Sully.

  162. 162.

    sharl

    October 13, 2015 at 3:10 pm

    @rikyrah: Your general point is well taken and usually true, but Village Media does invite Ornstein onto their shows occasionally. Diane Rehm actually had him on this week, counterbalanced (of course) with “reasonable Republican” and former Congressman Vin Weber.

    I think (speculation only; no evidence) that Ornstein getting invited as guest on political talk shows is a bellwether for how scared Big Media is about the out-of-control GOP. Diane Rehm’s show is of considerable interest to Beltway insiders; if Ornstein starts showing up on the Sunday morning shows, to me that’s evidence that a LOT of corporate types are damn nervous about the situation, not just miserable DC-based political operators.

  163. 163.

    mdblanche

    October 13, 2015 at 3:10 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: So if they’re going to alienate the olds now, who does that still leave?

  164. 164.

    goblue72

    October 13, 2015 at 3:11 pm

    @Elie: Why are liberals such pussies? Every single time the reichtards demand something extreme, there’s a handful of tote baggers whose immediate response is to start wringing their hands fretting.

    You know what you do when a fascist starts throwing bombs?

    You take the fight to the fascist and kill the fascist.

    In this case, not literally, but we certainly don’t win by fretting or backing down or worry-warting. They want to cut the social safety net? We respond that the problem is that its been cut too much and we want to increase it. I negotiate business deals as part of my job. When a counter-party to a deal proposes some ridiculous, off-the-wall price, you don’t meet them halfway. You respond with a counter offer that is equally extreme to communicate back : “Stop wasting my effing time. When you are ready to start taking this seriously, we can talk. Until then, shove off.”

  165. 165.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 3:11 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Mitch McConnell privately wants the White House to pay this price to enact a major budget deal: Significant changes to Social Security and Medicare in exchange for raising the debt ceiling and funding the government.

    The key word here is: privately. He wants the Democrats to propose the cuts. Good luck on that.

  166. 166.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    @trollhattan:

    I would add that Bernie is untried in the brutal warfare of campaigns with Republican Orc. Hillary knows that territory well — maybe too well — but won’t be surprised and hopefully be ready for it. Crossed fingers in every way…

    Julian castro might work… not really experienced enough but alternatives are not that evident.

  167. 167.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 3:15 pm

    @catclub:
    Harry Reid may be down one eye but he can still box. Can Turtle duck? (quack)

  168. 168.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 13, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    @rikyrah: Well, I guess Biden can wait until the last minute before jumping into the race. I don’t see how that makes sense though but whatever. He’s been a great VP and I hope he leave politics with his head up, whatever he decides to do.

  169. 169.

    germy shoemangler

    October 13, 2015 at 3:17 pm

    I’m having trouble loading the article written by Kayla Solsbak, but the one thing I found odd was NOT Kasich acting like an asshole. I expect that from any and all republicans.

    What I found disturbing was her account of being herded into the event and steered to seats directly behind Kasich (on camera) where she couldn’t ask questions but could be seen by a TV audience as being a supporter of the asshole. She refused to sit there, and instead picked her own seat, where she could actually ask questions of the candidate.

    I’m always fascinated by the folks who are on camera behind the GOP hopefuls. Obviously herded there for optics. Yesterday Mrs. Shoemangler and I saw Trump giving a speech, and saw more than a few black people behind him. Supporters? Doubtful.

    It’s all smoke and mirrors with the GOP. “Sit here, please. Where the camera can see you.”

  170. 170.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 3:18 pm

    @goblue72:

    Uh — I get your point and generally we Democrats could be more forceful. I am not sure we want to take that tactic in a situation where we do not really know what our opponents are capable of — that they may not have a floor or ceiling. There is a lot at stake. Of course, people closer to the situation might have a better read on our actual risk, but I don’t think so and I would rather be much more slippery than confrontational for its own sake — even if it gives a measure of emotional satisfaction. The goal here is to raise the debt ceiling and protect key programs — not play brinksmanship games with crazy people… and that is what we have here.

  171. 171.

    germy shoemangler

    October 13, 2015 at 3:19 pm

    @trollhattan: I agree about Julian Castro.

  172. 172.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 13, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: So it looks like Republicans are angling for a shutdown on several fronts. They have no idea how to govern but they the hell know how to shut things down. At least, if Americans are stupid enough to put a Republican in the White House, they cannot say that they didn’t know what to expect — cuts to social security, medicare, voters’ rights, healthcare, education funding, etc. Republicans have made it abundantly clear that regular folks can suck it.

  173. 173.

    Paul in KY

    October 13, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    @goblue72: Hear, hear!!!

  174. 174.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    @sharl: I thought this headline was amusing, but did not click on it.

    TripAdvisor Reviews of the Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp

  175. 175.

    mdblanche

    October 13, 2015 at 3:22 pm

    @catclub: Too late for that now. Who leaked these private discussions and how total is their shortage of fucks?

  176. 176.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 13, 2015 at 3:23 pm

    @trollhattan: Agreed. Castro would be a perfect VP candidate. He’s young, fresh, Latino and articulate. Plus, he could run for the Presidency in 2024. I hope Secretary Clinton isn’t considering someone boring like O’Malley.

  177. 177.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 3:24 pm

    @mdblanche: private discussions at the white house? Blame the dog.

  178. 178.

    Mary G

    October 13, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    @raven: She looks like she wants to go home, which is a good sign. Best wishes for her recovery.

  179. 179.

    goblue72

    October 13, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    @trollhattan: His name has been bandied about. And I know that the general perception is that he was appointed HUD Secretary in part to provide some Federal-level executive experience for his resume (as opposed to him have any particular deep housing subject matter experience, in contrast to his predecessor, Shaun Donovan, current Director of OMB, who had years of experience both under Clinton and in the Bloomberg administration, best HUD Secretary in decades)

    I’m on the fence about his prospects. He’s got the polished resume (Stanford undergrad, Harvard Law School), served as Mayor of San Antonio. But the few times I’ve seen him on TV outside of scripted speeches like the DNC, he’s seemed a bit uncertain, a bit stiff and scripted – even more than Hillary comes off, which is saying something. Could just be not a lot of experience being on camera in front of a national audience. Could be something more. Can’t tell. I’m hoping for the best as would be great to have Latino on the ticket, let alone someone from Texas.

    Will be seeing him tomorrow in person, so reserving judgment since the in-person impression is so telling. First time I met Andrew Cuomo (this was close to 20 years ago), I knew he was a complete asshole.

  180. 180.

    bemused

    October 13, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    @raven:

    Brings back memories when our dogs had this surgery. Their legs look so small and dainty with all the hair shaved off especially if the dogs are extremely furry. Lil Bit will be getting lots of tlc and appreciating it. Our dogs were great patients, very cooperative. They seemed to know we were doing our best for them.

  181. 181.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Hope that he has a little street fighter in him.. Remember the traditional role for the Vp during a campaign is the attack beast. Of course the attack beast can be stealthy and smooth like Biden, but he has to bring it and be able to take shots and respond also

  182. 182.

    mdblanche

    October 13, 2015 at 3:29 pm

    @catclub: Bo! I knew it was Bo!

  183. 183.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    @goblue72:
    Very cool, you’re hereby deputized and thus, are required to report back.

    I’d ask how Andrew Cuomo could possibly be his father’s son, but we already have the working example of RFK Jr. Sometimes the old block has no chips to give.

  184. 184.

    Bill Arnold

    October 13, 2015 at 3:31 pm

    @Elie:

    You know its damnned bad when Brooks is running for the exit.

    His argument doesn’t need so many words. A party that does not believe in governance does not believe in self-governance.

  185. 185.

    goblue72

    October 13, 2015 at 3:32 pm

    @Elie: They aren’t crazy – they are venal and stupid. Let them jump over the edge. They’ll quickly discover how fast they crash on the bottom. We are in a stronger position vis a vis the American electorate than we give ourselves credit for. Regardless of the number of voters who are unhappy with the President for various reasons, the majority of voters see the President as generally an honest, trustworthy and “good” person – regardless of whether they disagree with him. In moments of confrontational crisis and political brinkmanship, the leader that commands trust holds the upper hand. And the GOP are heading into this looking like a bunch of dishonest idiots who can’t keep their own house in order and who just got caught with their pants down trying to take down Hillary.

    I really hope Mitch pushes this. But Yertle the Turtle is far too slippery a political animal to push this too publicly. Only hope is one of the idiots in the Freedom Caucus or whatever nonsense they are calling themselves decides to make this an issue. Cruz is always around and usually ready to do something asinine.

  186. 186.

    Brachiator

    October 13, 2015 at 3:33 pm

    Free advice to everyone in presidential politics: If you want young women to vote for you, stop treating them like dumbbells.

    This is a “water is wet” story. I presume that Republicans will take young women for granted.

    Show me some stories of Democrats taking young women seriously and making them want to come out and vote.

    @Elizabelle

    … On Tuesday, Ms. Duva-Rodriguez was charged with one count of reckless use, handling or discharge of a firearm. The shoplifting suspects initially escaped, but two men were arrested in the case several days later.

    My, my, my. Shouldn’t Ben Carson, the NRA and Fox News be leaping to this woman’s defense? It’s funny how reality bites the stupid myths about pulling out guns and shootin’ at stuff.

  187. 187.

    gorram

    October 13, 2015 at 3:33 pm

    @srv: Wait, are you trolling? Because…

  188. 188.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2015 at 3:34 pm

    Bobo closed his reader comments section at 1789.

    Something significant about that date ….

  189. 189.

    bemused

    October 13, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Stupid, stupid, stupid.

    Hope he keeps it up.

  190. 190.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 3:37 pm

    @Bill Arnold:

    Yes it does… the message is not for us… the target audience is what remains of any sentient lawmakers in the Republican party.. not us. I read it as a full a confession we will ever get and an entreaty for someone to step up who can.. though as some have said, hard to think that there is anything like that kind of courage left in their ranks. I like the words. No full apology, but as close as we can expect for now. I hope that others in the MSM who gave these assholes cover to do the same thing. I want all their words and I want them heard loud and clear, over and over…

  191. 191.

    PurpleGirl

    October 13, 2015 at 3:37 pm

    @raven: Poor puppy. Hope he heals and recovers quickly but also thoroughly.

  192. 192.

    beltane

    October 13, 2015 at 3:39 pm

    @Elizabelle: Bobo will storm the Bastille with his comments section!

    BooMan says Yurtle the Turtle is “chum in the water.” I hope he’s right. The “no more fucks to give” Obama gives me hope.http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2015/10/13/14922/735

  193. 193.

    goblue72

    October 13, 2015 at 3:39 pm

    @trollhattan: That’s for sure. I lived not too far from Joseph P. Kennedy (RFK’s eldest) when he was in Congress. Not the worst guy, but man did he perfect smarm. He had the gall to try to get his 12-year marriage annulled so he could marry a staff member of his (a younger woman if I recall). Whole thing eventually blew up in his face and was one of big reasons he wound up withdrawing from running for Governor. Course, we got Republican Paul Cellucci out of it, so I’m not sure if it was a good thing or a bad thing.

    Anyways, got to see the two of them (Kennedy and Cuomo) in action together, and it was a mutual bro-fest of smarm – with some extra helpings of assholishness provided by Cuomo.

  194. 194.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    @goblue72:

    I hear your point and change my mind with reservation only related to the level of uncertainty about the swirl of power and who can really make decisions in their party that will stick. Who can agree to anything and make it stick? We are not in complete anarchy yet, but it is tricky. I hear your point about boldness during chaos, and don’t disagree. I just don’t want to make mistakes that jeapordize what remains of our governmental process and of course, the safety of our citizens. Of course, if they go ape-shit, we have another situation then and all gloves come off. Such a situation would be if that debt ceiling is not raised in time. Then its war…

  195. 195.

    goblue72

    October 13, 2015 at 3:43 pm

    @trollhattan: Ha!

  196. 196.

    joes527

    October 13, 2015 at 3:44 pm

    @Elie:
    This is what makes Brooks particularly evil. He actually understands what’s what. He is just willing to say whatever needs to be said (to get his paycheck)

    Looking back, he called Sarah Palin a fatal cancer to the republican party. Did you catch that? Not a flesh wound … not a recoverable mistake … a fatal cancer. (these are usually fatal)

    He understands what is happening, but very rarely mentions it in his out loud voice. When he does, he doesn’t so much walk it back, as just move on and get back on the message that butters his bread. Look for this to happen in this case.

    You can bank on it.

  197. 197.

    raven

    October 13, 2015 at 3:44 pm

    @bemused: Yea, she’s been through so much. She gets 5 meds a day, twice a day in both eyes. She’s had cataract surgery in both and has and autoimmune disease. All that and she’s happy as a clam as log as she gets food and treats.

  198. 198.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    @joes527:

    I would still rather have it than not. I would still have his words now, understanding that as you say, he doesn’t walk anything back, per se. I want his words and the words of all the other right wing apologists. Would you rather they be silent?

  199. 199.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 3:47 pm

    @Elie: Brooks:

    Basically, the party abandoned traditional conservatism for right-wing radicalism. Republicans came to see themselves as insurgents and revolutionaries, and every revolution tends toward anarchy and ends up devouring its own.

    Unstated: “And I was covering for them all the way, up until today” Also “I will still vote for whoever the GOP runs in 2016.”

  200. 200.

    beltane

    October 13, 2015 at 3:48 pm

    @goblue72: And yet many people I knew who had casual dealings with JFK Jr. when he worked in the Manhattan DA’s office said he was a really nice, personable, non-asshole-ish guy. Perhaps this was due to the influence of Jackie Kennedy.

  201. 201.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    @catclub:

    I didn’t get that last part — that he would vote for them in 2016….

  202. 202.

    bemused

    October 13, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    @raven:

    Food, treats and lots of loving.

  203. 203.

    beltane

    October 13, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    @joes527: Yep. David Brooks is paid to eat his lima beans. Every once and a while he’ll throw a tantrum about it, but the next day he’s always there for more.

  204. 204.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 3:53 pm

    @joes527:

    … and he was right about Sarah Palin. Only I would say that she had prion disease rather than cancer. She further infected a whole new bunch of assholes. Her protein folded a whole lot of republican brain tissue in unsurvivable ways. Really. She is the pattern that all the current Republican candidates follow — insanely stupid, venal and unrepentant, unable to do anything but fight and destroy. Yep she is the model and the source of the prion disease.

  205. 205.

    bemused

    October 13, 2015 at 3:54 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Assholes never give up.

  206. 206.

    goblue72

    October 13, 2015 at 3:54 pm

    @Elie: Certainly. I just think our hand is stronger now than it even was previously. The economy is in better shape, the budget deficit is shrinking. Last time around, the GOP could make the argument that the bottom was falling out, we had no money we need to tighten our belts like households do when times are tough, etc (regardless of how wrong that is from a policy position, it ‘sounds’ sensible-ish).

    This time around, we aren’t in that situation and the regular folks have this nagging suspicion that they are getting a screw-job and the wealthy are walking away with it all. They can’t even scream about bank bailouts at this point, since the Treasury has already netted a $50B+ profit on TARP & the Fannie/Freddie rescues. I haven’t ran the numbers, but eyeballing the gross ROI between 2008-2015, it looks around 1% return annualized or so – which is probably better than investing in T-Bills over that timeframe.

    Why should regular people have to “tighten their belts” when the rich are living high on the hog. Let ’em grab the third rail – they’ll get fried like Colonel Sander’s Original Recipe.

  207. 207.

    benw

    October 13, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    Maybe Republicans can make Kasich’s technique their new question-avoidance strategy:

    Older, boomer type lady raises hand: “I’m sorry, I don’t have any Springsteen tickets.”
    Longhaired guy raises hand: “I’m sorry, I don’t have any Phish tickets.”
    Young black guy raises hand: “I’m sorry, I don’t have any Yeezy tickets.”

  208. 208.

    geg6

    October 13, 2015 at 3:58 pm

    @Elie:

    You know its damnned bad when Brooks is running for the exit.

    and

    You know how effing bad it is when Rep King of NY is wringing his hands in despair.

    Up is down and vice versa when these two seem the most coherent and thoughtful people on the right.

  209. 209.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    @goblue72:

    Emotionally, your argument feels good, but there is a trap in the last statement. What is our goal here? If it is to fry the rich, rather than move our laws and regs to achieve better income distribution to protect all of us — well, that is not what I want. I don’t want a war on some of our already divided populace. We need to make changes that benefit us but don’t end up with retribution wars. I am not interested in settling some sort of score. The American version of the Khmer Rouge? Are you?

  210. 210.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    @joes527: astute analysis.

  211. 211.

    sharl

    October 13, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    @sharl: It looks like whoever handles social media for Jim Webb finally figured things out and deleted that tweet (my third/final link) which extolled the “endorsement” from the fictional “Carl Diggler”. But not before the image was captured by many for posterity (for example).

  212. 212.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    @beltane:
    Ten bucks says he’s back to bidnez as usual by the time his Friday “All Things Considered” gig rolls around. There’s a president to anoint, damnit, and calls have already been made.

  213. 213.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 4:03 pm

    @geg6:

    Yeah. They have a long way to go still — Lordy, I hope they do something to fix themselves… Not feeling it right now…

  214. 214.

    goblue72

    October 13, 2015 at 4:04 pm

    @beltane: Not surprised. For whatever her own human weaknesses may or may not have been (we all have them, as human beings), she had class. Wouldn’t be surprised if she passed that on to her son.

  215. 215.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    @Elie: I think it is still premature to say that Palin is a fatal cancer, because looking at all the statehouses, the GOP is definitely not dead.

  216. 216.

    goblue72

    October 13, 2015 at 4:06 pm

    @Elie: Like I said, if think you are completely worrywart hand-wringing.

    As for the frying – its a reference to Social Security. Its called the Third Rail of politics – because politicians who touch it, wind up getting fried. I say let the Teabaggers grab the rail with both hands. They’ll get fried.

  217. 217.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 4:07 pm

    @sharl:
    Hilarious profile of Webb.

    …The only knock on Webb? He might be too perfect a candidate.

    If Webb brings the heat tonight, voters may feel like they’re not good enough for the maverick legislator and award-winning novelist. When he talks, the man commands love, respect, and fear. He has the gleam of Ronald Reagan in a Democrat’s youthful body. Some voters may fear such a perfect specimen of masculinity. I don’t. I’m not afraid to love and lose and be hurt again. But will it play with Latino voters in Iowa?

    ETA the Diggler thumbs-up is second only to the revered Ron Swanson endorsement.

  218. 218.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 4:09 pm

    @catclub:

    I hear you. That said, the prion disease is invariably fatal, though it may take a while. I also think that the Republicans have been much sneakier at the local level, hiding their identities in non-partisan (so called) elections or go uncontested. The churches give them natural homes and protection during elections. See that here in the NW all the time. Our Democrats tend to nationalize our elections and tend to de-emphasize the importance of what happens at the state and local levels.

  219. 219.

    germy shoemangler

    October 13, 2015 at 4:10 pm

    Donald Trump will host SNL this November 7.

    Musical guest Sia

  220. 220.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 13, 2015 at 4:10 pm

    @Elie: The first person who popped into my head was Kirsten Gillibrand, but she’d only work as a running mate for someone other than Hillary Clinton (New York resident).

    I kind of expected Gillibrand to run for President in this cycle, actually, but she’s got plenty of time to do it in the future.

  221. 221.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    @goblue72:

    Ok — got it. You are right — I tend to be a worry wart and its good to be reminded in a good way. :-) It IS important to seize the momentum and timing. I hope that the Democrats can do that as this thing rolls on.

  222. 222.

    sharl

    October 13, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    @trollhattan: Haha, so much packed into just two paragraphs + one lone sentence

    Webb is liable to have his big breakout moment at the debate when Democratic voters get a look at his square jaw, burly muscles, and big heavy combat boots. Adding to his long list of positives, the former Virginia Senator has a wife from another country, something very popular with Millennials. Furthermore, his habit of carrying a gun in this age of mass shootings could lead him to personally stopping a spree killer in the act, a moment that would almost certainly go viral.

  223. 223.

    Amir Khalid

    October 13, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    @sharl:
    At least the endorsement wasn’t from Carl Diggler’s cousin Dirk.

  224. 224.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2015 at 4:12 pm

    @germy shoemangler: It’s an all hair, all the time SNL.

  225. 225.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 4:12 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Yep. She will be a strong one but like you say, maybe not this round, depending…

  226. 226.

    jl

    October 13, 2015 at 4:15 pm

    @feebog:

    ” All part of the SUPER SECRET REPUBLICAN OUTREACH PLAN. Alienate Hispanics, Blacks, Asians, young people and women. Then dig up dead people to vote. ”

    A lot of those dead people were old when they died and might have silly outdated industrial age 20th century ideas about Social Security and Medicare.

    So, most anybody except native born delusional middle age white guy bigot gun nuts with all of their retirement funds in a day trading account have to be tested first to see if they are worthy of being allowed to vote.

  227. 227.

    cosima

    October 13, 2015 at 4:17 pm

    As a mother of two daughters, the attacks on reproductive freedom & rights was my galvanizing issue back in 2007. I was not politically active at all before then. I voted, and considered the job done. That issue & that election combined made me into a canvasser, phone-banker, whatever-needed-at-the-local-level person. If Kasich thinks that “older” women don’t care about that, and that only younger women do, he could not be more wrong. Particularly the “older” women who were aware (i.e. not embryos) before Roe v. Wade. What a tool. And fool.

    On a different note, as this is an open thread, my daughter, in a small town in Vermont, is desperately looking for an online service that does lovely prints of photos. She’s just got her order from Shutterfly, and is near tears (she was hoping to turn them into cards to sell at the local university bookstore). Anyone had good luck with anyone else? She’s a couple of hours from Burlington, so online is really her best bet.

  228. 228.

    goblue72

    October 13, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    @Elie: Back when Bush was at height of popularity, having just won his second term, he attempted to spend his political capital trying to partially privatize Social Security. He wound up failing miserably. He never tried to touch Social Security again.

    This time around, the GOP has a popularity level somewhere below toe jam and above a personal injury lawyer. That’s why I’m not worried.

    The real worry I think is the sanity behind the insanity. There’s the possibility that some in the GOP might see monkey-wrenching the economy as not a bad thing. They know they aren’t losing the House in 2016. And they have a 50-50 shot (or slightly better) of holding the Senate. Get the economy to start its next business cycle recession early and the incumbent party in the White House starts facing an uphill climb as a result of an external factor (a sinking economy) that no amount of Get Out The Vote can fix. Regardless of who is “at fault”, the incumbent party in the White House generally gets blamed for economic downturns.

    In that case, giving them what they want isn’t the answer – the answer is controlling the message to pin all the blame on the GOP and get the public to quickly sour on the GOP to force them to capitulate as soon as possible.

  229. 229.

    SuzieC

    October 13, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    @Kay: Yes, Kay, that’s the arrogant dismissive jackass that we all know in Ohio. With the bellittling of the young woman and his “get over it” remark to a senior in New Hampshire, we’re starting to see Kasich’s true colors.

  230. 230.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 4:20 pm

    Holy JesusGlock, is our gun nuts learning? This. Again.

    A 2-year-old boy in Rock Hill, South Carolina, shot his grandmother with a .357 he grabbed out of the pouch behind the seat and pulled the trigger.

    The boy was riding in the back of his great-aunt’s car Sunday afternoon when he discovered her .357 revolver in a pouch behind the passenger’s seat. The toddler promptly pulled the trigger, shooting one bullet through the seat in front of him and into the back of his 40-year-old grandmother, local police told Charlotte television station WSOC. The woman was taken to a nearby hospital, and has since been released.

    “The gun should have never been that accessible,” Rock Hill police captain Mark Bollinger told the station, adding, “It is possible, for having the gun in the wrong location and easily accessible to a child, there could even be some child safety laws in violation. Our detectives will be working with the solicitor’s office to determine what, if any, charges will come of this.” (We’re thinking at least a good long time-out for the kid.)

    South Carolina law requires drivers to keep their firearms “secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle.”

    There have been at least 204 unintentional shootings involving children so far this year, according to a running count by Everytown for Gun Safety, a gun-control advocacy group.

    According to WSOC, it wasn’t clear if the child was in a car seat, either.
    –NY Mag

    I assume that last sentence was just for laughs.

  231. 231.

    beltane

    October 13, 2015 at 4:25 pm

    @cosima: My husband uses a place in Barre whose name escapes me at the moment.

  232. 232.

    SatanicPanic

    October 13, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    @trollhattan: that’s going to be an awkward Thanksgiving.

  233. 233.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    @cosima:
    For straight consumer quality, the bang for the buck best is Costco and while the easy stuff is in-store pickup the larger and more complicated jobs are shipped to you from regional printers. Costco is the only retailer I know of for which you can get color profiles for individual in-store printers (assuming she’s someone with the knowledge to profile her image files, which is critical to taking an image from screen to paper).

    Adorama.com seems very good and has lots of high-end options. There are tons of others, but no personal experience.

  234. 234.

    ? Martin

    October 13, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    @trollhattan: Why would anyone care? Everyone here will go to heaven. No harm, no foul.

  235. 235.

    beltane

    October 13, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    @trollhattan: Damn, a 40 year old grandmother. Sounds like these people are careless with just about everything in their lives.

  236. 236.

    Cervantes

    October 13, 2015 at 4:28 pm

    @Karen:

    Exactly right.

  237. 237.

    sharl

    October 13, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    @sharl: Just to give voice to all relevant parties in this silly matter:

    Jim Webb @JimWebbUSA

    @theshrillest Everyone here knew it was satire.

    Anyhoo, enough of that side show.

  238. 238.

    boatboy_srq

    October 13, 2015 at 4:35 pm

    @Elie: So TSE (Teahad Spongiform Encephalopathy), then?

  239. 239.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 13, 2015 at 4:36 pm

    @boatboy_srq: AKA, Mad Republican.

  240. 240.

    Calouste

    October 13, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    @trollhattan:

    According to WSOC, it wasn’t clear if the child was in a car seat, either.
    –NY Mag

    I assume that last sentence was just for laughs.

    I don’t think most 2-year-olds will have the reach to reach into the backpocket of the seat in front of them if they are properly strapped into a car seat.

    I won’t be surprised though if the penalty for not strapping the kid in a car seat will be higher then the one for not securing the gun.

  241. 241.

    boatboy_srq

    October 13, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Isn’t that becoming redundant, though?

  242. 242.

    boatboy_srq

    October 13, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    @beltane: I about gave up on the human race when I ran into a 31 year old grandfather (with a two year old grandson, at that).

  243. 243.

    catclub

    October 13, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    @Calouste:

    I won’t be surprised though if the penalty for not strapping the kid in a car seat will be higher then the one for not securing the gun.

    May well depend on the skin color of those involved.

  244. 244.

    Jeffro

    October 13, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    @Elie: Castro, Gillibrand, Hickenlooper, Kaine, all good choices. Anyone but McAuliffe please!

  245. 245.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 13, 2015 at 4:45 pm

    I really like the idea of Castro. He’s sharp and personable.

  246. 246.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 13, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    @Elie: Sanders-Gillibrand would be interesting, but kind of an unlikely match; I would expect Sanders to want somebody further left.

  247. 247.

    Howard Beale IV

    October 13, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    Quick Update from LGF on CCJ vs. Gawker:

    CCJ’s lawyers miss filing dealing for extension, but CCJ got trolled trying to get inside info from ex-Gawker workers; Gawker responds that CCJ’s extension should be denied due to the fact that he got trolled for said info. And CCJ’s legal council got the date wrong to boot.

    A Must read.

  248. 248.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 4:52 pm

    @boatboy_srq:

    YES! I like it!

  249. 249.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 4:55 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Uh — maybe no. He is already or would be battling “socialist” label. He would want someone further left than him? No

  250. 250.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2015 at 4:57 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I would expect Sanders to want somebody further left.

    Really? He has no idea whatsoever about electability, even as a proud socialist?

  251. 251.

    jl

    October 13, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    @gorram: I think Trump is the kind of bigot who thinks that, on average, some groups are more classy than others. There are always classy exceptions… the ‘good ones’.

    Edit: IIRC correctly he just plain said that about Mexican immigrants, amirite?

  252. 252.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    I could see Hillary and Kaine — I don’t think Castro is experienced enough – don’t know much about him under fire. He has been mayor but not Governor or Senator. Kaine was a former Governor and head of the Democratic Party, may not have enough hutzpah — he is kind of low key, but maybe that balances Hillary?

  253. 253.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 5:01 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:
    She would be a nice complement to Bernie’s inherently prickly demeanor. I’ve been smitten by Gillibrand since first “meeting” her on TDS.

  254. 254.

    Cacti

    October 13, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    @trollhattan:

    The only way to stop a bad toddler with a gun is a good toddler with a gun.

  255. 255.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    Geez, Discovery Health is having a special on Ben Carson as the superhero neurosurgeon next week. My question — Democrats should take out an ad during the show: “Would you want this man fooling around with YOUR brain?” and then reel off a few of his recent doozies…

  256. 256.

    Cacti

    October 13, 2015 at 5:06 pm

    @Elie:

    Castro is also the current HUD Secretary.

  257. 257.

    Josie

    October 13, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    @goblue72: Be sure to let us know your impressions. That will be very interesting.

  258. 258.

    jl

    October 13, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    ” Joe’s not running. :

    Looks increasingly like ‘not’, though it could change. I wonder if CNN will ceremonially remove the lectern reserved for Ol’ Handsome Joe at the beginning of the debate with sappy music and weepy up-close-and-personal tribute. Wouldn’t surprise me. It will be advertised as an special Biden news event to occur at the debate, or course.

    Or, maybe a lengthy in-depth analysis of why Biden did not take CNN up on its stupid gimmick invite… er… I mean generous public spirited offer to encourage free and open political debate.

    And knowing that CNN has devolved into, we may hear the distant sound of Biden throwing a lamp through the TV screen. CNN can probably manage to get that to happen.

  259. 259.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    I don’t know much about him, but is Martin O’Malley dead to being considered as VP? He hasn’t shown well during this, but he has had a couple of decent interviews where he showed some spine…

  260. 260.

    MomSense

    October 13, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    Finally watching the 60 minutes interview between village idiot Kroft and President Obama.

    Whoo. I’d vote for him again in a heartbeat.

  261. 261.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 5:10 pm

    @Cacti:

    That means nothing. Unless he is truly politically gifted, he needs experience running for office and being in tough campaigns where he has to hold his own or attack. I think he is definitely a prospect, but should run for Governor or something big in Texas first.

  262. 262.

    Amir Khalid

    October 13, 2015 at 5:12 pm

    @jl:

    I wonder if CNN will ceremonially remove the lectern reserved for Ol’ Handsome Joe at the beginning of the debate with sappy music and weepy up-close-and-personal tribute.

    Gee, I hope not. Viewers might mistake that for a memorial tribute.

  263. 263.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 5:12 pm

    @MomSense:

    sigh… and he is only 54…

  264. 264.

    SatanicPanic

    October 13, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    @Elie: I hope he does. I like that guy.

  265. 265.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    @Elie:
    Big-picturewise I don’t see Hillary as needing any propping up WRT experience–she has plenty. Obama OTOH gained credibility by selecting Biden, given he’d only served part of a senatorial term and was young. I’d think Hillary, conversely, would want a relatively young running mate.

    At present I give Rubio a decent chance at the nomination and Castro would utterly neutralize any potential Republican gains he give in the Latino vote. But no, I have no exposure to him other than his various high-profile “scripted” moments. I was really impressed at his DNC speech. Obama’s 2004 speech essentially launched his national image; Castro’s wasn’t THAT good but it wasn’t bad, either.

    Hillary needs to go win a couple primaries before I’m losing any sleep over her VP pick.

  266. 266.

    MomSense

    October 13, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    @Elie:

    I know. We’re not worthy.

  267. 267.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    I had a white friend/colleague of mine who generally supports Obama say that she thought he was “uppity” in that Croft interview and that Ben Carson had the right style. As I came through the phone, I asked her if she had listened to any of the content of Ben Carson’s smooth speeches. She admitted she had not. Lord almighty, I had no idea she was this stupid, but there it is. At some level, there are enough of these people to prop up Carson’s poll numbers, though I think they are soft and untested by enough exposure to the man. It does make me question this gal though for sure…holy moly! And she is an educated professor! Yikes

  268. 268.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2015 at 5:23 pm

    @Elie: Ben Carson has a really nice and calm speaking style. Even though the content is sometimes batshit crazy.

    But I can see someone not listening to the words, just hearing the tone of voice, rating Carson well.

  269. 269.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 5:24 pm

    @MomSense:

    I would love to meet him and shake his hand before I die.

    I will never forget sitting on the sofa in my mothers apartment the night that he was elected, crying and holding each other — wishing my father and her mother (my grandmother) were here to see this day.

    I will never also forget the deep deep pride I had in my country watching the states light up in blue first on the East Coast and then the ones taking him over the top — CA, Oregon, WA and then OHIO in 2012…

  270. 270.

    trollhattan

    October 13, 2015 at 5:25 pm

    @Elie:
    I mentioned yesterday seeing a cluster of Carson stickers commingling with State of Jefferson banners in the Sierra foothills last weekend. It takes a certain pathology for that convergence to occur, but by gawd our anti-vax, home-skewlin’ foothill-dwellin’ morans have sackfuls of pathology.

    Also, too, if this doesn’t “fix” your friend’s perception, then nothing will.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6ChFtIDUbg

  271. 271.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    Jeez, how does someone not listen to what a person running for President is saying? My goodness!

  272. 272.

    boatboy_srq

    October 13, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: @boatboy_srq: AFTERTHOUGHT: Mad Elephant Disease.

    I’m curious if, since Mad Cow Disease prevents one from donating blood, Mad Elephant Disease would be grounds for preventing people from donating money to political campaigns?

  273. 273.

    jl

    October 13, 2015 at 5:31 pm

    @Elie: I thought Kroft was an ignorant ass faking his way through the interview, and Obama single handedly saved it from complete idiot uselessness. Heard it while driving, and found myself screaming at Kroft through the radio. I have to avoid that kind of junk when driving, I get too upset.

  274. 274.

    MomSense

    October 13, 2015 at 5:31 pm

    @Elie:

    I remember that night, too. My state director called and said we didn’t need to make calls to another state where the polls were still open because we won! Then I told all the phone bankers and we all turned on the news and laughed and cried. A bunch of other volunteers and our families showed up and it turned into a great little party.

  275. 275.

    boatboy_srq

    October 13, 2015 at 5:33 pm

    @Elie: That’s easy: “All politicians lie, so the words aren’t important; I’m just going to listen to the voice and decide if I like that.“

  276. 276.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 5:36 pm

    @trollhattan:

    He opens up talking about the size of the human frontal lobe as due to rational thought, but we know he doesn’t evidence that. Does he have a frontal lobe “falsie” or cosmetic appliance? Of course we don’t have a CAT scan of his brain, but judging from what he says, it must be pretty little…Furthermore, the frontal lobe is supposed to process input from all the other parts of the cerebral cortex to use our experience and knowledge fully as well as mediate when to use our emotions and when to use rational decision making. I’m not seeing that in him.

  277. 277.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    @jl:

    Krofts job was to fling poo for the neocon warmongers and Republican foreign policy assholes who really admire Putin and always have. I think Obama was pretty direct and clear in his response and was very happy that he didn’t dance around it…

  278. 278.

    Snarkworth

    October 13, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    I’m just not sure America is quite ready for a Castro on the national ticket.

    Although if they could get past Barack Hussein, it’s possible.

  279. 279.

    Elie

    October 13, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    @MomSense:

    I was living in Virginia during the 2012 election and remember how many volunteers we had — the church we worked out of was jammed. I also remember great great feedback from the people I doorbelled, young moms inviting me in, small business owners offering me coffee and talking about how important this election was. I also remember the preparation of our campaign leaders — we had updated information and debriefed immediately on return from our rounds. We had volunteers from Great Britain, from Australia and Africa — all wanting to play a role to help. We all knew what was at stake then and that must continue. If anything, things are or will be even more dire in 2016

  280. 280.

    Paul in KY

    October 14, 2015 at 8:15 am

    @Elie: Great night that was!!!!

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