Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

I really should read my own blog.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Everybody saw this coming.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Infrastructure week. at last.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread: The Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver Is Not Mean Conservative Enough

Open Thread: The Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver Is Not Mean Conservative Enough

by | 202 Comments

This post is in: , , ,

saving private ryan ohman

(Jack Ohman via GoComics.com)
.

The NYTimes is saddened by the news that 2012’s blue-eyed boy is now perceived as just another RINO:

Far-right media figures, relatively small in number but potent in their influence, have embarked on a furious Internet expedition to cover Representative Paul D. Ryan in political silt.

In 2012 when Mitt Romney picked Mr. Ryan, Republican of Wisconsin, as his running mate, the concern among some in their party was that Mr. Ryan was too conservative, particularly when it came to overhauling social programs like Medicare and Medicaid.

Now, as he agonizes over whether to answer the appeal of his colleagues to become their next speaker, the far right is trotting out a fresh concern: Mr. Ryan is too far left.

He is being criticized on issues ranging from a 2008 vote to bail out large banks to his longstanding interest in immigration reform to his work on a bipartisan budget measure. On Sunday night, the Drudge Report — a prime driver of conservative commentary — dedicated separate headlines to bashing Mr. Ryan on policy positions.

Even a self-congratulatory book outlining how Mr. Ryan and two other Republican House leaders drafted Tea Party candidates to help them take over the House in 2010 — “Young Guns” — is being recast by some as a manual of how to be traitorous to conservatism…

Mr. Ryan moved this year to the chairmanship of the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee from the Budget Committee because he said he wanted even greater influence on national fiscal policy, and his prescriptions are anathema to most Democrats.

But the current flak following Mr. Ryan stems from a growing and powerful collection of far-right pundits and news media — from Mark Levin to Laura Ingraham to the sites RedState and Breitbart and the new Conservative Review — that have successfully wielded influence over Republican voters and lawmakers in strongly conservative districts…

These men are nihilists, Donny…

Reader Interactions

202Comments

  1. 1.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    The Teabaggers tossed a live grenade onto the Speaker’s podium, and now the GOP wants Ryan to throw himself on it to save the rest of the troops.

    Ryan’s reluctance is…understandable.

  2. 2.

    jl

    I heard a news report that Boehner might hang around and ram through a debt ceiling agreement somehow or another before he leaves. If that is so, it might not make any difference.

    Anything else that the House absolutely has to do before the next election?
    Might be better politically, if essential business gets done, to have them fight between themselves into next summer.
    Then, voting public will get to view two GOP clown shoes, which will help them focus their minds on importance of making a good choice next November.

    Edit: or am I getting two debt and finance measures confused? Ahh.. everything is such a mess with anything the GOP does that I am probably losing track. Bah humbug. There is something coming up in December, right?

  3. 3.

    Villago Delenda Est

    These men are nihilists, Donny…

    DING DING DING DING DING

    Wipe them out. All of them.

  5. 5.

    Elie

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    At least they do not believe in democracy or any compromise. I read somewhere that this kind of fixation on purity and no negotiation was a taint brought by the Republican affiliation with Christian fundamentalists. Makes sense but from wherever it comes, its no joke and has real ramifications, first for them, but our system as a whole also.

  6. 6.

    Gin & Tonic

    I honestly can’t imagine that there’s anyone who cares, but the local TV news here in RI is brutalizing Linc Chafee for his performance in yesterday’s debate. I didn’t watch it, so I can’t weigh in, but if this were a fight, the ref would have reached in and stopped it by now.

  8. 8.

    some guy

    live by the rabid wingnuts, die by the rabid wingnuts. couldn’t have happened to a better bunch of plutocrat defenders.

  9. 9.

    Yatsuno

    @jl:

    I heard a news report that Boehner might hang around and ram through a debt ceiling agreement somehow or another before he leaves.

    The Orange Crush could probably get it out of the House easily enough. The problem right now is Yertle. He’s demanding some pretty deep concessions before he’ll even address the idea of a debt ceiling raise. An actual budget agreement? Gittouttaheah!

    I’m starting to think minting the trillion dollar platinum coin is gonna be the only thing that saves the country here.

  10. 10.

    Eric U.

    @Villago Delenda Est: it’s scary that we have nihilists in charge of a significant part of our government. I don’t think Obama would actually allow a default, but it could definitely be the case that he has to do something that they could impeach him over. No conviction, obviously, but it would be a problem politically.

  11. 11.

    eric

    @Yatsuno: McConnell will pass anything the House sends if the president says he will sign it, because then it is on McConnell and not the Dems.

  12. 12.

    Oatler.

    Maybe they’ll tear each other to pieces like in the French Revolution. “Guillotine! Guillotine!”

  13. 13.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Eric U.: I don’t know. If enough people get pissed off, and correctly trace the thing that’s pissing them off back to the teabaggers, the political calculus could change, radically, and not in the favor of the teabaggers. The teabaggers would then be put into a situation like the slave states were in the late 1850’s. Not good for the country overall, by any means, but these people are monomaniacal about all this.

  14. 14.

    Felonius Monk

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Wipe them out. All of them.

    Nah, these fuckers should be rounded up and put in those FEMA camps they keep ranting about, then forced to pay into Social Security and Medicare for the rest of eternity

  15. 15.

    Turgidson

    The Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver is too liberal for the Freedumb Cockless. Good fucking grief.

  16. 16.

    NotMax

    The fundamental schism within the G.O.P. structure has been publicly papered over for nigh unto 25 years. But as the crack gets wider and deeper, there isn’t enough paper and glue to cosmetically hide it any longer, nor to arrest it from crumbling the foundation.

  18. 18.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    If Tenar is around, I forgot part of my “Hamilton” pitch — they have a lottery before every show where you can possibly win a chance to buy tickets for $10, and a few cast members do a little show right before the drawing. Go to YouTube and search #Ham4Ham to see some of the previous ones. Even if you don’t get tickets, at least you got to say you saw a bit of “Hamilton.”

    (I have now promised the spousal unit that when he gets his masters degree (projected for 2017), we’ll take our first trip to NYC and see “Hamilton.” That should inspire him to finish on time!)

  19. 19.

    mdblanche

    @jl: The current schedule is: Boehner retires on October 30*, debt ceiling reached on November 5**, current funding for the government expires December 11.

    *assuming there’s a successor available
    **Guy Fawkes Day. Just sayin’.

  20. 20.

    Baud

    When is the next GOP debate? I wonder if any of them will be asked to address what’s going on in Congress.

  22. 22.

    Wag

    Anarchy in the DC
    It’s coming someday, maybe
    Don’t know what I want but I know how to get it
    I want to destroy the safety net

    Cause I wanna be
    Anarchy!

    Get pissed
    Destroy

    New GOP theme song

  23. 23.

    Yatsuno

    @eric: It used to be that would happen. But the Turtle is also balking on the Ex-Im bank. And he used to be a big friend of business interests. I’m not certain what prompted that change, but he’s definitely running more with the tea folk recently. Maybe that whole replacing him as speaker thing is affecting his judgment. All I can do is sit back and slip letters under Maria’s office door.

  25. 25.

    Felonius Monk

    @Baud:

    I wonder if any of them will be asked to address what’s going on in Congress.

    Trump’s response is predictable: “Congress is full of idiots. When I’m President, I will fire the lot of them and hire people that will do what I tell them.”

  27. 27.

    mdblanche

    @Yatsuno: How comforting to know the GOP leadership are coordinating their positions, thereby minimizing the risks of crashing the economy due to an accident or miscommunication.

    @Oatler.: Citizens, we have reason to fear that the Revolution Republicans, like Saturn, will successively devour all its children, and finally produce despotism, with the calamities that accompany it.

  30. 30.

    JPL

    @Gin & Tonic: Chafee did have one good response to Webb. Webb was bloviating about Putin, and Chafee piped in to mention that Syria and Russia have always been allies. He started his statement with Chops, though. At least that is what I heard and I don’t know what Chops means.

  32. 32.

    Roger Moore

    These men are nihilists, Donny…

    Yep. As I said before, their purity demands basically mean that it’s impossible for anyone who has actually accomplished anything to be good enough for them. For most groups, that would be a problem, but for the Freedumb Caucus, that’s a feature. Their whole goal is for the government to accomplish nothing, so accomplishing anything is proof enough that somebody is not fit to be their leader.

  33. 33.

    mdblanche

    @Yatsuno: Boehner jumped to avoid being pushed, McCarthy just got shanked, Ryan’s afraid to leave his office because they’re baying for his blood. If I were McConnell I’d be worried about people looking up recipes for turtle soup too.

  35. 35.

    Shana

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): Great idea, but last I’d heard it’s going to London in 2017, so tell him to get his ass in gear. Of course it could be that they’re just putting together a new cast for London and it will continue with the current cast in NYC.

    Never mind, I clearly don’t have enough info.

  36. 36.

    Mike J

    @JPL:

    No, that’s not true, Senator Webb. I respect your foreign policy chops. But Russia is aligned with Iran and with Assad and the Alawite Shias in Syria. So that Iran deal did not allow Russia to come in.

    2) the technical skill of a musician, especially one who plays jazz.
    “when I’m on tour, my chops go down”

  37. 37.

    MomSense

    Does anyone here know if Congress funded the Land and Water Conservation Fund? I think it expired on 9/30/15. Last I knew, the assholes decided to let it expire.

  38. 38.

    Peale

    @Yatsuno: yep. Raise the social security And Medicare retirement ages in return for a few months of peace…then ask for more in a few months.

    I’m a nihilist myself. This isn’t even the grand bargain.

  42. 42.

    MomSense

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    I really wanted to see Hamilton when I was in NYC. I also love that theater and saw A Chorus Line (still my favorite) there. Sadly, I couldn’t get tickets.

    Hope you can see it and report back. May I just say that I miss, miss, miss my former life as a theater/creative person. I remember the feeling of just bursting with eagerness to get to “work”.

  44. 44.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Shana:

    We’ve never been to London, either, so I wouldn’t *totally* rule it out. It would be a harder sell, because neither of us are very good travelers.

    Though I think West End productions of Broadway hits usually use British casts? That’s what they (mostly) did with “The Producers” — Nathan Lane was the only carryover, and he was a last-minute substitute.

  45. 45.

    David Koch

    CNN Poll — Nevada Oct 3-10

    Trump…………..38%
    Carson………….22%
    Fiorina……………8%
    Rubio……………..7%
    ¿Jeb?…………….6%◄
    Cruz………………4%
    Kasich……………1%

    MWHAHAHAAAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHAH

    CNN Poll — South Carolina Oct 3-10

    Trump…………..36%
    Carson………….18%
    Rubio……………..9%
    Fiorina……………7%
    ¿Jeb?…………….6%◄
    Cruz………………5%
    Kasich……………1%

    Trump leads in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina, and Florida. He’s going to run the table.

  46. 46.

    David Koch

    Well, this is a pleasant surprise:

    CNN’s Tuesday night debate averaged 15.3 million viewers, easily making it the highest-rated Democratic debate ever.

    The previous Democratic debate record was set in 2008, when Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama squared off in prime time on ABC. That debate had an 8.9 household rating and 10.7 million total viewers.

    There was a lot of commentary saying people wouldn’t watch because of the baseball games. But no, the public is interested.

  47. 47.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @MomSense:

    Did you see the video I keep posting of the “Hamilton” cast performing a tribute to “A Chorus Line”? Just in case …

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xqqjJFHV5qY

    It. Is. Magic. And, yes, all of the soloists are members of the “Hamilton” chorus, because Lin-Manuel Miranda is fucking awesome.

    I’ve never seen “A Chorus Line” but if know the soundtrack by heart because my dad loved it. I really should see it, but I worry it won’t live up to that cast recording.

  50. 50.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    Good lord, the this has been a wacky inning from Toronto. Texas broke a 2-2 tie in the top of the 6th when the Toronto catcher’s throw back to the pitcher hit the hitter’s bat and ricocheted down the left field line to let the guy on third score. The Jays have tied it back up after loading the bases on three consecutive Texas errors and a couple of fielder’s choices.

    Oops. Then Joey Bats puts one in the seats to give Toronto a 6-3 lead. The Jays may rescind their protest of the play in the top of the inning.

  51. 51.

    David Koch

    @Baud: that’s a good point, Baud. I didn’t think of it that way. yes, less is more. isn’t.

    ps you really shined in last night debate.

  52. 52.

    Gimlet

    @nominus:

    Since they fear the primaries and won’t tell the Freedom Caucus to get fornicated, I don’t see how it will ever break loose.

    Follow the money. Someone’s calling the shots.

  53. 53.

    sstarr

    They’re covering Paul Ryan in political “silt”? So that’s what they’re calling it these days….

    Also, it’s funny how folks still think that people watch Baseball games.

  54. 54.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @MomSense:

    Also, too, go to YouTube and search for the #Ham4Ham Love for the Techies video. They have their stage manager come out and “call” the “Ten Duel Commandments” number while the cast performs it.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    @David Koch:

    I was up against Chafee. How could I not?

    ETA: And just so there is no uncertainty, I am not running for, nor will I accept, a nomination for Vice President.

  56. 56.

    MomSense

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    Oh yes I did see it! “I saw A Chorus Line” so many times and also know the songs by heart. It was perfect live but I saw the original cast so I’m spoiled! “At the Ballet” was my life.

    ETA A Chorus Line was so moving in part because there was so much beauty, talent, and suffering behind the scenes. The show celebrated the people that the audiences never saw. Some of the people who auditioned and were never cast were talented and incredible beyond belief. When you know how much work, dedication, and faith goes into the arts–it inspires and breaks your heart.

  58. 58.

    ThresherK

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: Toronto catcher’s throw back to the pitcher hit the hitter’s bat…

    I was listening ye olde wireless when that happened, and have yet to see it. Had no idea that was a rule, all I can think of is the very rare “batter’s interference on catcher’s throw to 2B” call.

  60. 60.

    Roger Moore

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    The Jays may rescind their protest of the play in the top of the inning.

    That’s not actually how it works. They would protest the play and then continue the rest of the game. If they win despite the protested play, the protest becomes moot and nothing is done about it. It only comes into play if they lose. Note, though, that you can only protest if the umpire gets the rules wrong; you are not allowed to protest any judgment call.

  61. 61.

    raven

    @ThresherK: It was years ago and in slowpitch but I remember a woman who was really and a great hitter. She teed off on a pitch, missed and spun all the way around and hit the catcher in the head with the bat. Catcher interference and she got first.

  65. 65.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @Roger Moore: I was (for once) trying to keep my comment short.

    That said, it’s a goofy system. It gives Toronto a real advantage if the umps got the rule wrong: they get to keep any game they win and get to restart any loss from the point of the rule being wrong.

  66. 66.

    dmsilev

    @beltane: Fortunately for us, Hillary Clinton lived through the 1990s, and hence has long and effective experience dealing with clowns as opponents.

  67. 67.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @beltane: Sad, but true. He’s feeding the crazies the red meat they crave, and it’s paying off for him now.

    How this works in the general, though, is a totally different question.

  70. 70.

    Elizabelle

    Lost count of how many times NBC Nightly News worked “Benghazi” into their recap of last night’s debate. Made HRC out to be a total bitch — bailed out by Bernie Sanders on the emails and then she went after him on guns. Chuck Todd is still waiting for the bat signal on whether Biden joins the race. Because he might be waiting until — yes, Benghazi!

    Then they interviewed Donald Trump, on debate style, his personal style, and what does he think about Benghazi?

    Fuck ’em.

  73. 73.

    David Koch

    109 days until the Iowa caucus.

    There’s always a dead period around xmas/newyears were people tune out because of traveling and shopping. We saw this closely in 2007.

    So if you excluded the 14 days at the end of the year, there’s only 95 campaign days before the first vote.

    Time is running out on the establishment’s ability to oust Trump.

  74. 74.

    trollhattan

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    He’ll wake up one day next spring if he’s still leading and realize, “Holy fuckballs, I could win this thing and then I’d have to put my YOUUUUGE and classy and vast portfolio in a trust for FOUR FUCKING YEARS. I can’t leave My Precious that long and I certainly can’t trust some mook to run it for me. I gotta drop out!”

  76. 76.

    bemused

    @Yatsuno:

    How long does he want to stay in the Senate? He’s 73 now but maybe he wants to hang in there another 20 years or so and beat Robert Byrd’s record.

  77. 77.

    jl

    @mdblanche: Thanks for jobbing my memory.

    The GOP is such a mess that it is hard to keep track, and goofy stuff keeps happening that distract me.

    Like, apparently, Rand Paul was talked into live streaming a day in his life by his staff or the press or somebody, and he wanders through it griping that the live stream stunt is stupid. Now, THAT is presidential if anything is.

    Rand: I Wouldn’t Have ‘Dumbass’ Livestream If I Wasn’t Running For Prez
    TPM
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rand-paul-dumbass-livestreaming

    Just too many ‘Squirrel!’ moments in the GOP saga for me to keep track anymore.

  79. 79.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud: NBC’s point was that Bernie was magnanimous to Hillary, but she did not return the favor. How funny if it’s because NBC has their timeline wrong.

    Look: Benghazi!

    I think I might count the eventual transcript.

  80. 80.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @MomSense:

    If we get a West Coast revival, I could probably talk G into seeing it even though he officially “hates” musicals because he loved “All That Jazz,” which had a similar tone. Though I may have to take my niece instead — she saw a high school production and loved it.

  81. 81.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @raven: That shouldn’t be ruled catcher’s interference. To qualify, the catcher must interfere with the hitter’s ability to hit a pitch. If she’s spun around after missing the pitch, it can’t be interference unless the ball is just hanging in the air or she swung far, far too early.

  82. 82.

    trollhattan

    @Elizabelle:
    I only heard chunks of it but of what I did hear, the only topic that totally went off the rails was legalized pot. I don’t know if it was intended as a topical amuse-bouche but it was amazing how trivial the topic is in the big scheme of things. The responses all seemed some version of, “Oh, yeah, that…whatever.”

  83. 83.

    beltane

    @David Koch: It’s the Republicans who really need a Joe Biden figure to jump in the race on their side. Unfortunately for them, their senior statesmen are all long gone.

  85. 85.

    David Koch

    @trollhattan:

    but it was amazing how trivial the topic is in the big scheme of things.

    and yet the usual suspects will jump on this board and scream bloody murder that Obummer has betrayed us by not legalizing mary jane.

  86. 86.

    raven

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: Backswing Interference in Professional Baseball and College Baseball
    When a batter swings through a pitch and makes contact with the catcher (his mitt or his person) during his backswing, the ball is delayed dead. If the catcher throws and the throw directly retires the runner, the interference is disregarded. Otherwise, the ball is dead and runners return to TOP bases. [OBR Rule 6.06(c) CMT]; [NCAA Rule 6-2d-2]

    If the batter swings, the ball is not caught, and the backswing hits the catcher, the ball is dead and the batter is out. [PBUC]; [NCAA Rule 6-2d-1).

  88. 88.

    jl

    @Elizabelle: Sad and hilarious. Did NBC notice huge audience compared to previous Democratic primary debates, which seems to be very happy with a debate that focused (absent meddling by CNN) on substance?

  89. 89.

    Archon

    I see the concerns of genuine fiscally conservatives regarding Paul Ryan. I believe you can make a good argument that Paul Ryan has the most fiscally irresponsible voting record in the history of the House of Representatives. He voted for both Bush tax cuts, voted for the Iraq War, voted for Medicare Part D, voted for Tarp and the auto bailouts.

    It’s a disastrous voting record if you are genuinely interested in fiscal conservatism.

  91. 91.

    Felonius Monk

    @Baud:

    I’m more curious about how the establishment guys handle it.

    Oh, you mean the guys who probably won’t get the nomination. :)

  93. 93.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud: Yea Baud.

    Will check NBC website for if and when the debate segment goes up. In its own whacked out way, it was a thing of beauty.

  95. 95.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @raven: You’re not reading that right. It’s discussing a case in which the catcher is trying to throw the ball and is hit by the backswing. That’s not catcher’s inteference; it’s batter interference with a fielder and no one is awarded first base. Here is all of Rule 6-2d, which makes that clear:

    d. If a batter swings and misses a pitch and the backswing is so forceful that it hits the catcher as the pitch is caught, or if the batter hits the ball again, the pitch shall be called a strike, the ball is dead (no interference) and no runner shall advance on the play;
    1) If the follow-through hits the catcher and occurs in a situation where the batter normally would become a runner because of a third strike not held by the catcher, the ball shall be dead and the batter declared out. No runner shall advance.
    2) If the catcher is in the act of making a throw to retire a runner and the batter is in the batter’s box and his normal follow-through unintentionally strikes the catcher or the ball while the catcher is in the act of throwing, “Time” is called and runners return (unless the catcher’s initial throw retires the runner).

  96. 96.

    ThresherK

    @trollhattan: I (Trump) certainly can’t trust some mook to run it for me…

    Is The Donald really that good at managing his own investments? I mean, numbers aren’t going to balance any better on a ledger in response to his yuuge and classy ego-stroking.

    Does his finagling actually do better than any index fund? A blind trust might be the best thing that ever happened to his pocketbook. (Note: This is in some universe where any actions of a theoretical “Prez Donald Trump” do not destroy the economy or the world we live in. Yes, it is an alternate universe.)

  97. 97.

    piratedan

    @raven: in this case, the incident took place on the throw from the catcher to the pitcher, while Choo was in the batters box, Martin made the motion to throw the ball back to the pitcher, time hadn’t been called, so when the ball deflected off of the bat and trickled down the 3rd base line, the runner on third came in to score. two thirds of the way down the line, the ump tried to call time (improperly imho) because the ball was still “live”. The reviewed confirmed that there was no interference from the batter, the catcher simply made a gaffe and the run was allowed.

    Possible points of contention, the Home plate ump calling time before the runner scored, supposedly Choo’s bat was outside of the batters box (although he was inside of it) … just one of those things that happens every 25 years or so that is unique to baseball, like the fly ball that Rasmus hit into the rafters at Minute Maid Park a couple of nights ago…. that ended up being a fair ball because of the ground rules in play at the ballpark.

  98. 98.

    JPL

    On NBC.com, there is a link to a Trump rally.. I linked to it and listened to praise that Trump was giving Dave Brat and the amazing things he’s accomplished while in Congress. That’s all I could listen to.

  100. 100.

    David Koch

    ? Congratulations Toronto

    Down 0-2 and u came back to win 3 in a row.

    O Canada!
    Our home and native land!
    True patriot love in all thy sons command.
    With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
    The True North strong and free!
    From far and wide,
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
    God keep our land glorious and free!
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

  101. 101.

    ThresherK

    Wow.

    As my state’s last remaining Expos fan, I must root for the Jays. I’m not Canadian, but it seems like the most Canadian thing to do. (Note that this doesn’t apply if the sport were hockey.)

  102. 102.

    Thoughtful Today

    It’s often a mixed bag with Kilgore but he articulates how I felt about CNN’s Anderson Cooper:

    And that leads to the aspect of the debate that struck me apparently more than most observers: the exceptional hostility of the questioning from moderator Anderson Cooper, who seemed to be trying to defy expectations that he’d be less savage than Jake Tapper was in CNN’s GOP debate. Pretty quickly, Cooper became a stand-in for all the media folk trying to make the Democratic contest about emails and Benghazi! and “socialism,” and you got the sense the candidates and the immediate audience united in disdain for the superficiality of where the hosts wanted the discussion to go. The feral roar that greeted Bernie Sanders’ statement that Americans were tired of “hearing about [Clinton’s] damn emails”—followed by HRC shaking Bernie’s hand—was the signature moment of the night. And this wasn’t just some “gift” from Sanders to Clinton, as it was called by several talking heads last night. It was a party-wide rebuke to the MSM for how they are covering this campaign.

    “[E]xceptional hostility of the questioning from moderator Anderson Cooper” is more kindly worded than my reaction of: ‘Anderson Cooper’s being an ass.’

  104. 104.

    ThresherK

    @David Koch: Hey, where’s the French part? Do I have to citizens-arrest you for Cultural Non-Bilingual Sign Crimes? Because I will, if it’s not too much trouble.

  105. 105.

    piratedan

    @Thoughtful Today: I thought that the tone that Cooper was using when asking these questions seemed to encapsulate the issue with the MSM as a whole. The attitude was from them was “we’ll decide what’s important to the people of America, tyvm, now answer the damn question” and for them to find out that this wasn’t exactly their Watergate moment, that the majority of the people have a pretty decent understanding that there’s fuck-all there in regards to whatever issue/alleged impropriety involved while Ms. Clinton was the SOS and when her actions are viewed in regards to those of her contemporaries, seem asinine to even be discussed.

  106. 106.

    trollhattan

    @ThresherK:
    Probably true to a great extent, but The Donald being The Donald would not like it not one bit. And what’s more fun, fightin’ with congress or flying around to all one’s properties?

  108. 108.

    Elizabelle

    Hope this will work for you, let me know: first segment of NBC Nightly News: What We Learned from Hillary Clinton’s Debate Performance

    One thing you won’t learn: that Webb, O’Malley and Chafee even showed up.

    First you have to watch a nice promo by NBC Comcast on how they’re helping low income schoolchildren who need internet access. Then:

    Piece by Andrea Mitchell Greenspan. Whom I can’t stand. Lester Holt gives her a nice lead-in: “the drip, drip of controversy” and talks about “Hillary’s nervous supporters.”

    “Her strategy, telegraphed last night: dismiss the inquiry as pure politics.”

    Andrea doesn’t want to let go of her Benghazi bone.

    And do watch — they make it seem that guns came up after Bernie’s save on the “damned emails.” Baud checked the WaPost transcript: guns came up earlier.

    Here’s a rush CBS transcript.
     Confirms. Guns Q to Bernie came up well before “damn” emails.

    I think this might be the last NBC broadcast I watch.

    After Andrea’s piece, they go to Chuck Todd. Worth watching too — Benghazi! And backhand at Hillary: Lester Holt: along lines of “we knew she was a good debater.” So: nothing to see here, except Benghazi!

  110. 110.

    piratedan

    @Elizabelle: what bothers me is that somebody organized that little segment… okay, how do we make Hillary look bad…. ok, we’ll make her look like a bitch for going after Sanders, after Sanders helped her so we can keep up the discord theme going on among the Democrats, hell, who will even call us on it…..

    while the reporters are willing mouthpieces, it’s the fuckers that spin this shit behind the scene, producers/directors etc that are the REAL problem here.

  111. 111.

    Germy Shoemangler

    Beyond Hillary Clinton’s slam-dunk performance and the probability that her road to the Democratic nomination will be straight, if plenty bumpy, from here on out, there is something very big lurking in the shadows that Republican challengers should fear beyond the inevitable rough and tumble nature of the general election campaign: Voter demographics make it nearly impossible for the Republican nominee, no matter who it is, to beat her.

    Not even Republican voter suppression efforts are likely to be adequate because there simply aren’t enough white males voting Republican to counterbalance the number of black, Latino and other minority voters who will reliably vote Democratic. Clinton, meanwhile, stands an above-average chance of attracting a significant majority of white women, as well as Independents in general.

    These demographics mean that Clinton will have secured 246 of the 270 electoral votes needed to become president.

    http://kikoshouse.blogspot.com/2015/10/politix-update-is-presidential-race.html

  112. 112.

    Schlemazel

    Can we get some Dems to publicly suggest that Ryan would be their choice for Speaker? That might not just kill his chances for the job it might end his Congressional career – WIN-WIN!

  114. 114.

    Elizabelle

    @piratedan: It was so damn clear.

    It was “discord among Democrats!”, when anyone who watched the debate didn’t see that.

    So blatant. Got to be an edict from NBC Corporate. Mika on Morning Joe was more whack than usual today.

    They want to step all over Hillary and the Democrats being the adults in the room. Look: Benghazi! Hillary says it’s just political. Boy, is she in trouble next week.

    Fuck NBC. Used to be my favorite network when I was little.

  115. 115.

    Carolinus

    It’s not up on their English language site yet, but Spiegel has a new story on German intelligence spying on EU and US targets (embassies, large institutions, etc):

    https://twitter.com/SPIEGELONLINE/status/654369107349889024

    Hardly surprising, just like the previous revelation that they intercepted Clinton and Kerry’s calls, but it’s yet another example of how brazen German government protestations about how ‘allies should never spy on allies’ actually were. I’m just glad they never managed to leverage the feigned outrage into any concrete concessions from the US or UK.

  116. 116.

    Jeffro

    @JPL:

    On NBC.com, there is a link to a Trump rally.. I linked to it and listened to praise that Trump was giving Dave Brat and the amazing things he’s accomplished while in Congress. That’s all I could listen to.

    Trump AND Brat, right there in one place…geez, where’s a good meteor strike when you need one?

  118. 118.

    piratedan

    @Baud: what bothers me, is the complete lack of impartiality, the GOP was all character based and red meat tossing to allow themselves some theatre for them to tear each other up, while not issuing a damn bit of difference on what they consider policy… the GOP debate was like the four yorkshiremen sketch of politics…

    well I would deport all of the illegals….
    …oh yeah, well I would deport even their family members who are here legally…
    not me, deportings to good for them, I would take their shoes and make them WALK back across the border…
    ha!!! you milquetoast… I would make ’em walk back without shoes and then I would make ’em build a wall to keep them out!!!!!

    over on the DEM side, the guys at CNN kept trying to get the Dems to eat their own and poked ’em with sticks and when someone tried to elaborate they tried to shut them down…. and they were hardly fair to O’Malley, Webb and Chafee, but then again these guys set such a low bar, I was surprised that they were given any kind of forum.

  119. 119.

    Jeffro

    @Schlemazel:

    Can we get some Dems to publicly suggest that Ryan would be their choice for Speaker? That might not just kill his chances for the job it might end his Congressional career – WIN-WIN!

    Obama must be dying to throw a few names out there…personally, I’d demand a few choice Rs vote to double-fund Planned Parenthood in exchange for not mentioning them as candidates for Speaker

  120. 120.

    Thoughtful Today

    @piratedan:

    I have 25 years of annoyances with the Clinton’s policies and choices … and not a damn one of them has ever coincided with the bullshit noise-machine of the right-wing and their Corporate handmaidens.

  121. 121.

    Elizabelle

    Watching CNN. They don’t see an opening for Joe Biden. Someone tell NBC.

    ETA: But now they’re talking about her lack of trustworthiness, and Benghazi hearings next week. Nowhere as blatant as NBC, though.

  122. 122.

    Patrick

    @Elizabelle:

    The good news is that it really doesn’t matter how incompetent or how terribly biased the media, including NBC, is. There are certain issues where people really don’t give a damn irregardless of what they are told to believe by the media. Case in point; Bill Clinton and the impeachment. 2/3 of the American people was against the impeachment irregardless of what the media told them.

    It is the same thing going on here. People don’t care about Benghazi (heck the backlash against the GOP on this issue seems to have legs). And people don’t care about email issue.

  124. 124.

    piratedan

    @Schlemazel: that is delightfully 11th dimensional chess-like, maybe Obama should ask for a GOP coalition of Virginia Foxx, Louie Gohmert and Trent Franks to craft the new Congressional GOP leadership caucus….

  125. 125.

    Schlemazel

    @trollhattan:

    I believe it is much more likely he would look at the situation and say “why not both?” He is such an ass he would easily believe he could be Prez and still manipulate his portfolio on the qt. But then I thought he would have already found an excuse to get out of this, apparently his ego is even bigger than his lust for money so he is serious not just trolling.

  126. 126.

    Patrick

    @piratedan:

    At least they weren’t as bad as ABC in 2008 when they spent 50 minutes asking stupid irrelevant questions on Jeremiah Wright, Ayers and Obama’s flag pin…I wanted to throw up in disgust. Talk about living in a fricking bubble.

  127. 127.

    Schlemazel

    @ThresherK:
    It doesn’t matter how good he his, it matters how good he THINKS he is. I see a lot of Jesse Ventura in Dump, my guess is he would spend 4 years trying to figure out how to enrich himself further and then not run because it was more trouble than it was worth. And yet some dumb suckers still luvs them some Jesse The Boobie.

  128. 128.

    David Koch

    Great News: Keith Olbermann is in talks to return to MSNBC

    Said source indicates the impetus for the conversation is to jumpstart sagging ratings under Hayes, which despite an Emmy win this year has been a consistent drag on the rest of primetime since launching on April Fools Day in 2013. At one point this year in May, the show averaged only 74k in the demo, making it the worst performing MSNBC program at 8:00 PM since 2005. And given Olbermann is now a free agent after leaving ESPN again in July (Note: on good terms if the company’s farewell statement is any indication), he appears to be the only remedy for Lack.

    I never thought Hayes would work. If I wanted to watch someone bash Democrats I would watch Fox, not MSNBC.

  132. 132.

    Thoughtful Today

    Hayes is actually my favorite MSNBC host.

    I don’t need cheerleaders.

    Some apparently do.

  134. 134.

    Schlemazel

    @beltane:
    YEAH! Would make “Nancy Smash” even more true. Great idea.

    EDIT: and the multiple suggestions for Obama to wedge this are great too. We should run the DNC

  136. 136.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    @Schlemazel: It’s not so much that I was making a joke as that I think it’s a misuse of the word “moot.” Toronto effectively had the choice between the result that happened or asking the league for a do over. There really isn’t a good legal analogy for that, but the closest I can come is to a plaintiff dropping his case once it is clear that he likes the real world outcome.

  137. 137.

    Just One More Canuck

    @SFAW: He was the best – you could just about run through a brick wall after listening to him sing.

    The version you linked to had the lyrics he modified himself. He changed the line “we stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee” to “we stand on guard for rights and liberty” because he thought we should be standing on guard for something. The change was controversial at the time – there were some questions raised in parliament

  142. 142.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @Thoughtful Today: Hayes is best with longform reports. He got the Emmy for an in-depth look at poverty in American. He was outstanding on the weekend show where he had 2 hours and invited people who knew what they were talking about. I remember watching Kornacki on that show after a torture revelation, and it was all about how it would affect Ds or Rs. Hayes would have had someone from Amnesty International, an experience interrogator, maybe a torture victim. It would have been fascinating.

  144. 144.

    Baud

    I wonder if they replaced Chafee with Lessig, everyone would just think it was Chafee doing a better job.

  146. 146.

    Tom Q

    @Elizabelle: You’re confirming for me what I got from, literally, the first 20 seconds of Lester Holt’s intro. I had only switched over, briefly, from the baseball game, but Holt’s tone was immediately “Well, Hillary apparently did well last night, but…” — and I knew he was going to switch right into something negative, so I flipped back to the madness in Toronto. (When I tried again at a lull in the game, I saw Chuck Todd talking about when Joe Biden could enter the race, and sped away again.)

    I’ve been a NBC Nightly News watcher pretty much since Peter Jennings left his post, but I detect the same as you: a sharp swing anti-Democrat in the past several months (carrying over to MSNBC: getting rid of Alex Wagner & Ed Schultz in favor of more time for Chuckles Todd). It truly does feel like Corporate has sent down orders to ratfuck Hillary’s campaign.

  147. 147.

    Roger Moore

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    It’s not so much that I was making a joke as that I think it’s a misuse of the word “moot.” Toronto effectively had the choice between the result that happened or asking the league for a do over.

    The point is that they don’t have to make that decision. The rules say that the game will only be replayed if the incorrect ruling hurt the protesting team’s chances of winning. Going on to win makes the point moot in the sense of “of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic”, since it guarantees that the game won’t be replayed whether the decision on the field was correct or not.

  149. 149.

    Baud

    @Tom Q:

    It truly does feel like Corporate has sent down orders to ratfuck Hillary’s campaign.

    Maybe that’s why they want Olbermann back.

  151. 151.

    Thoughtful Today

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Chris Hayes’s book, “Twilight of the Elites: America After Meritocracy”, had insights that never would have occurred to me alone.

    The audio book, in his voice, was like a friend patiently explaining a complex system that, once he was finished, seemed obvious in hindsight, not because I would have figured it out myself, but because he explained his thinking so well.

  153. 153.

    catclub

    Shouldn’t they relabel the cartoon “fragging private Ryan.”

    yes, I know officers get fragged.

  156. 156.

    Schlemazel

    @catclub:
    Privates can get fragged too. A cousin claims one in his unit got it because his foxhole mate kept finding him asleep when he was supposed to be watching.

    That is the right take though, the Speaker is getting fragged!

  159. 159.

    Thoughtful Today

    lol

    @JPL: “In a perfect world, they would move Chris to the mornings. Hayes in the morning sounds good.”

  167. 167.

    Chris

    @Patrick:

    There are certain issues where people really don’t give a damn irregardless of what they are told to believe by the media.

    People by and large seem to understand that the media is just full of shit.

    The GOP’s relentless demonizing of the “liberal media,” much as it makes me tear my hair out how many people fall for it, may actually have helped a little here. It’s helped to paint it as one of those professions, like politics, where everyone’s understood to be completely irredeemably sleazy and crooked and you can’t just a damn thing they tell you (though not as much as the media itself has). And, well… it’s true.

  169. 169.

    amk

    a growing and powerful collection of far-right pundits and news media — from Mark Levin to Laura Ingraham to the sites RedState and Breitbart and the new Conservative Review

    nyt – guyz, should we give them writing gigs in our paper and kick out the current conservative ass kissers?

  173. 173.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Jeffro: I’d demand that from the whole South Carolina delegation… because, every single one of those assholes voted against Hurricane Sandy relief because “how are we going to pay for it?”…and I might just tell them to add on raising taxes on the 1% to pay for it to boot.

    The Freedumb Caucus has become the Peoples Front of Judea. They can’t get along with anyone on their own side, much less the opposition.

  174. 174.

    Jeffro

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    I might just tell them to add on raising taxes on the 1% to pay for it to boot.

    But…but…job creators!!!

    Seriously, if these clowns won’t accept PAUL RYAN as a Speaker of the House, all is lost for the GOP. Who steps in and stops this downward spiral?

  176. 176.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Jeffro: As for who stops the downward spiral, I don’t think anyone can. McCarthy was right, they have to go the full Monty and experience the consequences, which hopefully will be very dire for them.

  177. 177.

    ThresherK

    @benw: (Until I clicked on link) I thought it was real, and wanted to ask:

    To be perfectly symbolic, shouldn’t it be a Slutty French Maid costume from the Halloween Scares-travaganza which pops into that empty storefront every October?

  179. 179.

    NotMax

    @efgoldman – et al.

    Hayes was a perfect fit for UP on the weekends, albeit the show aired at a gawdawful early Sat./Sun.hour.

    Maddow has developed a bad habit of overintroducing stories or topics, practically dragging in everything back to the discovery of fire by way of background. That’s a production/editing problem, which is reparable. Hayes’ thing in his current slot is to overinject himself (count the I’s and me’s in any given hour) into the reporting, going well beyond opinion, into lecturing and too often approaching hectoring. That’s a personality quirk, one that was tamped down by the extended round table of the weekend format.

  180. 180.

    benw

    @ThresherK: @Iowa Old Lady: Sorry, I usually put (Onion) or (NYT) or whatever after a link so people don’t feel like they’re clicking through blind – especially those folks who don’t know the mouse-hover trick – but I forgot.

    The Republicans have gotten so extreme that they’re almost unsatirizable. I mean, you’d have to write a satire about them eating babies or something, and who would be that crazy?

  181. 181.

    srv

    May not matter who wins the nominations, Obama may not be leaving office:

    The Justice Department is creating a new position to coordinate investigations into violent homegrown extremism, a department official said Wednesday

  185. 185.

    Cacti

    @Carolinus:

    It’s not up on their English language site yet, but Spiegel has a new story on German intelligence spying on EU and US targets (embassies, large institutions, etc):

    https://twitter.com/SPIEGELONLINE/status/654369107349889024

    Hardly surprising, just like the previous revelation that they intercepted Clinton and Kerry’s calls, but it’s yet another example of how brazen German government protestations about how ‘allies should never spy on allies’ actually were. I’m just glad they never managed to leverage the feigned outrage into any concrete concessions from the US or UK.

    I don’t think of Germany as a friend so much as an old enemy we keep close in case they ever need a boot on their neck again.

  186. 186.

    Jeffro

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: I just wonder…when even David frickin’ Brooks can’t bring himself to say “vote Democrat and teach them a lesson”, despite his most (only?) righteous rant to date…with this much billionaire cash propping up such an obviously out-of-touch Purity Party…are they ever going to get there? I don’t think so.

  188. 188.

    srv

    Hillary Clinton was widely declared the winner of Tuesday night’s debate, but in terms of ratings, the Democrats lost to the GOP … and NCIS.

    Hosted by CNN TWX -2.42% and Facebook FB -0.18% , the first Democratic debate of the 2016 election season averaged 15.3 million total viewers, according to Nielsen’s numbers. That marked a new ratings record for Democratic debates, but it still fell well short of the GOP’s numbers.

    The first GOP debate aired on Fox News FOX -0.79% in August and pulled in a record-breaking 24 million viewers. Last month’s follow-up on CNN pulled in roughly 23 million, which was a record for CNN.

    The Dems’ ratings also couldn’t top the 15.7 million viewers who tuned in to watch the fourth episode of the season for CBS CBS 0.21% drama NCIS, starring actor Mark Harmon.

    Maybe Biden-Meinhof can get the ratings up next time.

  189. 189.

    father pussbucket

    @Felonius Monk:

    Trump’s response is predictable: “Congress is full of idiots. When I’m President, I will fire the lot of them and hire people that will do what I tell them.”

    The Imperial Senate will no longer be of concern to us.

  190. 190.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    LAS VEGAS – One week ahead of her testimony before the House Select Committee on Benghazi, Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign is alleging the investigation has “zero credibility left” after a Republican lawmaker said it was “designed” to target the Democratic presidential front-runner.
    In an interview with WIBX 950 in New York on Wednesday, moderate Republican Rep. Richard Hanna said House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy was speaking the truth when he said this month that the committee had successfully injured Clinton.
    “Sometimes the biggest sin you can commit in D.C. is to tell the truth,” Hanna told the upstate New York radio station. “This may not be politically correct, but I think that there was a big part of this investigation that was designed to go after people and an individual, Hillary Clinton.”

  191. 191.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @catclub: Officers are the usual targets of fragging, because they have the best position to make life miserable for the troops. But it’s not unheard of for enlisted to gang up on enlisted. Troops who don’t socialize with other troops well are particularly vulnerable to this sort of thing. An infantry platoon can be a lot like high school that way.

  193. 193.

    father pussbucket

    @David Koch:
    So fucking sixty-eight percent of Nevada Republicans favor a Presidential candidate who has never held elective office or, in 2 out of 3 cases, even run for it.

  195. 195.

    SFAW

    @Just One More Canuck:

    “we stand on guard for rights and liberty” because he thought we should be standing on guard for something

    Wasn’t it also because of the Quebec separatist movement at the time? I remember there being some controversy about him changing the lyrics, and I thought I had read that there was a link.

  196. 196.

    SFAW

    @father pussbucket:

    So fucking sixty-eight percent of Nevada Republicans favor a Presidential candidate who has never held elective office or, in 2 out of 3 cases, even run for it.

    Why are you surprised? I mean, Nevada is the state that considered Sue “I Will Gladly Give You Two Chickens on Tuesday for Some Medical Care Today” Lowden and Sharron “Call Me Crazy, But Don’t Call Me Kurt” Angle to be legitimate candidates.

  197. 197.

    ThresherK

    @benw: Nah, I hovered like any good geek. I didn’t even think it was strange until I read it.

    And the only click labels I really care about are for the toxic sharters like Breitfart, Daily Caller, Bobo & such; the ones which are a total waste of my time and to whom I don’t want to give a single click.

  199. 199.

    burnspbesq

    @Carolinus:

    I’m just glad they never managed to leverage the feigned outrage into any concrete concessions from the US or UK.

    They’re actually doing that right now, as a result of the recent ECJ decision against Facebook.

    Lawfare has been all over the story.

    #Europocrisy

  200. 200.

    dww44

    @David Koch<
    You obviously have a totally different read of Chris Hayes than I. I think he’s the best of the lot on MSNBC. His show is NOT political process all the time every night. He covers other issues and other topics. While he has frequent GOP'ers on, he's very much a progressive. Personally, I don’tt recall him bashing Democrats ever.( Are you confusing him with frequent MSNBC guest Josh Barro?) I would choose his show over every other MSNBC show any day of the week.

    Finally, as much as I like Rachel, I find Hayes’ show much meatier. Digby thinks highly of him as well. I would hate to see him go away.

  202. 202.

    Tehanu

    @Bill:

    The Randian culture warrior is too liberal?

    There is nobody “pure” enough for these people.

    It’s nice to see somebody else setting up for the circular firing squad. I thought the old Trotskyites had that locked up. Evidently being a fanatic works the same no matter where you are on the political spectrum.

Comments are closed.