Greg Sargent calls out the GOP’s “Bad cop, evil cop” routine on the debt ceiling and notes that the Republicans have failed totally in the past trying to get concessions from President Obama over it.
This continues to get lost in discussions of this issue, but GOP leaders actually want to raise the debt limit, and they know beyond any doubt that they will end up doing just that in the end. In previous debt limit standoffs, GOP leaders have agreed that default will hurt the economy. And according to Politico’s reporting, Boehner knows that raising the debt limit this time would spare his successor — and his party — a major headache.
Thus, if and when Republicans do demand later on in this process that Democrats make concessions in exchange for Republican cooperation in raising the debt limit, Republicans will be asking Democrats to give them something in exchange for what they themselves want to happen to prevent massive harm to their own party and the country.
Orange Julius is planning to play ball on his way out the door, but of course Mitch the Turtle is still playing hostage games.
Now, maybe McConnell knows he’s not going to get unilateral concessions in exchange for refraining from hurting the country, and is just leaking this so conservatives think he’s “fighting.” But whatever the motive for this leak, it’s just a bunch of baloney. As Steve Benen notes, “these dangerous schemes only work if your rival believes you’re fully prepared to kill the hostage – and in this case, McConnell lacks all credibility.” This is especially true, now that we know Boehner is looking to raise it, very likely cleanly, to save his party from a huge political mess.
Conservatives will of course scream betrayal if Republican leaders do move to raise the debt limit with a minimum of damage to the country, without getting anything in return for it. But as I noted here yesterday, we have come a long way from 2011, when the political incentives were stacked in a way that really did give Republicans leverage to extract concessions in fiscal standoffs. But in repeated confrontations since Obama won reelection in 2012, the President and Democrats have revealed that this leverage is a phantom. The political incentives now all point the other way.
The point is that conservatives pushing for more such standoffs know this. They know the tactic will fail, and are only urging it on for their own cynical reasons. Whether or not Boehner actually ends up sparing us the needless drama of a protracted confrontation, the fact that he’s looking to resolve this without one itself confirms how this will ultimately end, no matter what has to happen along the way. And there’s no need for anyone to pretend otherwise.
Which brings me to the question: what happens should the poop-flingers in the cheap seats decide to go rogue? There’s more than enough votes for Nancy Pelosi to bail out Orange Julius in the House and pass a clean debt ceiling bill, but can the Senate GOP wreck the plan? Would Cruz or Paul blow this up in order to save their failing White House runs? Would Mitch then be willing to end that insurrection to save the country?
I mean it’s nuts enough that we’re talking yet again about debt ceiling hostage situations, and yes, the GOP has folded quickly enough in the past, but the bonkers factor has risen considerably in 2015, and I’m thinking maybe Sargent might not want to be so sure that both jokers are going to fold this time.
I’m not 100% sure they will fold this time, and that’s kinda scary considering the stakes.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone :)
gratuitous
They’ve been lying to their constituents for so long, I don’t think they know what’s true anymore. There are certain hard realities that go along with governance, at least as it’s practiced in the United States, and the Republicans have been steadfastly denying that reality for nearly 40 years.
Their voters have swallowed the bullshit and called it filet mignon because of the promise of something for nothing, and new lamps for old. They’ve sold out the country and what it’s supposed to do for the citizens on the basis of saving a hundred bucks a year in those dreaded taxes. And every day bridges, roads and schools crumble a little more. Class sizes get a little bigger. Teachers have to stretch resources a little thinner. Police departments have to cover larger areas with fewer officers but more weapons. The wait at the DMV is a little longer. Social Security covers a little less.
For the wealthy, none of that matters all that much. For the non-wealthy citizen, life gets a little harder and a little meaner day by day. The mouthpieces and bought politicians for the wealthy then tell us that the cause of all this hardness and meanness is terrorists or the person who’s just a little worse off. They’ve been so successful, though, that now their deluded constituents fully expect them to spin straw into gold. Boehner may be sick of the show, but McConnell has no choice but to try to juggle one more ball, one more ball, one more ball, because he still wants to have a hand in running the show, and he doesn’t want the ginned-up slavering horde to turn on him.
Germy Shoemangler
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/10/14/3712578/richard-hanna-benghazi-clinton/
RSA
You’re right to wonder whether this is true. Ben Carson clearly has no idea what the debt ceiling is. I suspect a good percentage of Congress has no idea either. They’re not an economist, man.
Cervantes
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?
The Shadow knows!
MattF
We should take bets on how much the DJ average has to drop before the lunatics give up. 2000 points? 5000 points? 10,000 points? Maybe the Wall Streeters will think twice before lining up with nihilists. Sigh. Well, maybe not.
JMG
There are too many Republican Senators running in races they could possibly lose in 2016 for Mitch to do much but bluster. And he has every reason to screw Cruz over any way he possibly can.
BGinCHI
It’s like the GOP has taken themselves as hostages and are threatening to kill themselves if the Dems don’t do what they want.
It’s like Dog Day Afternoon, but with even less negotiating skill.
Punchy
The prob isn’t concessions per se, it’s what they ask for are so stupidly ridiculous. If Mitchell McTurtle asked for a random tax break for hepetologists, or tax write-offs for apple slices and green pellets, or incentives to buy heat lamps and hot rocks, I bet Obama would bite. But instead he wants Obamacare repeal and seven trillion in corporate projects for Ashland and Lexy. Such fuckdummery is just stupid negotiating.
Matt
This is assuming facts not in evidence – I have exactly zero confidence that at least some if not all of the “FREE DUMB COCK US” actually want to cause massive harm to the country. They didn’t get elected with a mandate to govern, they got elected with a mandate to sabotage.
Jeffro
OT but OMG:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/richard-hanna-benghazi-committee-hillary-clinton
GOP crazy person admits Benghazi probe “designed” to go after Hillary Clinton(!)
Christmas in December!!!
Cervantes
@MattF:
Each of them thinks the others can be profitably manipulated, so … no.
Anyway, here’s the funniest sentence I’ve seen all year:
Courtesy of the headline-writers at The Grauniad.
mdblanche
The current deadline for the debt ceiling is Guy Fawkes Day. Make of that what you will.
SomeDude
@mdblanche: With the bomb throwing ‘radical’ rump of the republican House, I’d say it isn’t the best day to have a deadline. On the upside, I’m sure someone will make this a good omen for these folks to make a stand for freedumb.
Belafon
I think the Obama administration should send Opt Out cards to every adult in America. Put on it that you can opt out of being provided any services by the US government. And if enough of you and other patriots opt out, then we can reduce the amount of spending. Then it should list everything that government spending is based on, such as the postal service. And, if they choose to opt out, we can assign someone to monitor them so that they aren’t using those services unless they pay for them at that moment.
redshirt
Buy this ideological agenda or we will shoot this dog.
The dog = USA.
redshirt
@SomeDude: In a fine touch of Doublespeak, the “conservative” party is in fact a radical, revolutionary party.
Chris
@gratuitous:
This, especially to your first sentence.
JohnPM
Here’s what I propose: House Democrats agree to vote with “sane” Republicans to raise the debt ceiling in exchange for those same Republicans voting with Democrats to elect Nancy Pelosi Speaker of the House.
Next, the DNC and the DCCC make certain to have a candidate running against every Republican House member (especially the Dumb Fuck Caucus) and hammer home the fact that Republicans are too fucking stupid and incompetent to govern.
MomSense
@Belafon:
And the list of services would include roads, bridges, produce, meat and poultry, prescriptions, OTC meds, drinking water, appliances, etc.
Good luck dummies trying to go it alone.
benw
@mdblanche: actual fireworks or GTFO
Schlemazel
I realize its a bit early in the morning to go goodwin and I don’t actually believe the 4th Reich will rise in Cleveland Mid-July next year but I have noticed a similarity between our beloved industrial masters and those of the Weimar Republic. Both fund a nasty band of crazy thugs in the belief that they can use the loons to make their life better at the expense of everyone else. Both assumed that they could control the crazies. At least the German industrialists didn’t have a shining example of how badly that could fail, ours have no excuse for their stupidity.
Despite some recent online ramblings comparing Dump’s rise to a certain Austrian paper-hanger I don’t think the comparison will make its way that far. The question is though, how far will it go and how much damage will this nation endure before it all unravels?
MattF
@JohnPM: But then Republicans will object that Democrats are setting unreasonable conditions. I know that would be a Karl Rove-level of projection and irony, but I’d bet they would.
Schlemazel
@Belafon:
minor qibble, the US spends nothing on the Postal Service, it is entirely self funded. It had to borrow some money due to the recent economic down turn and the fact that Congress required annual payments of $5.5 billion dollars to fully fund retirements for the next 70 years. There are people not yet born who will go to work for USPS and retire before any of that money is needed. UNLESS Congress decides that is a fat pool of money they can steal, which I assume will be their next trick, steal that money like they stole $3trillion in SS payments to fund for even more tax breaks for the 1%
Patricia Kayden
“I mean it’s nuts enough that we’re talking yet again about debt ceiling hostage situations”
No it’s not. Just look at the Republican Party. They’re all nuts and care nothing about actually governing. I assume that whenever a Democrat is in the White House, these political games will be played by Republicans to satisfy their base. I also expect talk about impeaching Secretary Hillary Clinton within the first year of her being elected.
The best scenario for November 2016 would be not only Secretary Clinton winning the Presidency, but the Senate flipping back to the Democrats and that way Republicans would have less chances to mess stuff up.
Belafon
@MomSense: Exactly.
Patrick
@MomSense:
Don’t forget our military, social security/medicare etc etc. It really irks me that these are the people that scream the loudest about claiming to be patriots, yet they are not willing to pay for it.
geg6
@JMG:
Yup. Yertle the Turtle is in trouble either way he goes. If he sides with the Teapublicans on blowing up the economy, there goes control of the Senate. Too may GOP senate seats are up for grabs and vulnerable in bluish and purple states. If he tells Cruz and company to go take a hike, he gets primaried by the rabid wolverines he used to feed. But I somehow feel that Yertle would take the chance on being primaried in order to spit in Cruz’s face.
rikyrah
The President has already told them:
The full faith and credit of the United States of America is not up for negotiation.
geg6
@BGinCHI:
You win the internets today for me. Big LOL!
Watchman
Speaking of unreasonable domestic terrorists, be sure to ask Zandar about his 18-month campaign harassing the women at his previous workplace that resulted in his suspension from work over threats and his eventual termination when he couldn’t handle having a woman for a manager.
Belafon
@Schlemazel: I agree that it’s essentially a private corporation, but it is part of the government. I don’t know a lot about how it works, but does it pay the same taxes that other companies do?
SomeDude
@Schlemazel: Remember, California got the Govenator through the kind of popularity politics we’re seeing Republican pResidential candidates are engaged in at the national level. Dump is just so much better at it than the rest of the islanders, and they’ll all be voted off the island fairly quickly as their backers turn off the money – the ‘smarter brother’ may have a big enough war chest to outlast the rest, but the polls are what will do him in.
BGinCHI
@MomSense: Clean air, the internet, radio, sewage removal, 2nd amendment rights.
Patricia Kayden
@Germy Shoemangler: Good for Rep Hanna. Looks like the whole Benghazi charade is falling apart before our eyes. In a just world, the Republicans who pushed all these Benghazi investigations would suffer consequences for misusing public funds for nakedly partisanship purposes.
mdblanche
@RSA: McConnell at least should know better.
redshirt
McConnell just got re-elected. If he’s worried about being primaried, then…. I don’t even know what to say.
SomeDude
@Patricia Kayden: The public ‘revelation’ by the members on the whole Benghazi charade have given Hillary a good bounce, and since the cat is out of the bag, the stories of what really was happening on the public dime makes it look even worse.
Patrick
@Patricia Kayden:
Right. Wouldn’t it be fun if the Democrats held hearings about possible misuse of public funds. McCarty and Hanna and the man who was fired would be obvious witnesses.
MattF
@mdblanche: He does know better. It wouldn’t surprise me if this is Step One in a plan to place Senator Cruz between a rock and a hard place.
mdblanche
@Punchy: I believe McConnell’s current demand is processing the elderly into soylent green pellets.
JohnPM
@MattF: No doubt Republicans would whine if Nancy Pelosi were to become Speaker, but they would have brought this on themselves.
mclaren
I’m 100% sure the Republicans will fold this time.
Look, as I said repeatedly this cycle, the debt ceiling is a non-issue. And here’s why:
In most cases, assigning blame in a presidential system with elected representatives is hard. Most failures result from non-action by the legislature, and it’s usually really really hard for the public to figure out exactly what bad results came from congress failing to pass a bill.
But not in this case.
In this particular instance, failure to raise the debt ceiling will clobber the U.S. economy and the Republican congress will own that blame 100%, utterly, totally. Every Democrat will be able to point a finger at the Republican House and the Republican Senate and shout “THESE a**holes made the economy crash! THESE creeps cost you your job! THESE creeps made your company go under!”
There is no way on earth the Republicans want to risk that. If that were to happen, such a tidal wavfe of resentment would sweep over the electorate that the House and the senate would both go Democratic this election cycle, and together with a Democratic president (yes, the next president will be a Democrat, just look at the Republican candidates if you doubt it), this would give the Demos a complete sweep to pass any progressive legislation they want.
That makes Republicans quake in their jackboots.
No, the ceiling will be raised. Count on it.
OzarkHillbilly
@geg6: He doesn’t have to worry about another election for 5 years. Plenty of time.
redshirt
@mclaren: You’re awfully optimistic!
I am much more cynical – while your facts might be correct, there would also be the entirety of right wing media spinning it against Democrats. That includes CNN, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and all the rest.
It would be enough chaff to convince 45% of people it was the Democrat’s fault.
Punchy
Nope. Because they can make just as much money on the way down as they can with stocks moving up. Shorts and put options can make a mint if the market tanks.
Chris
@Schlemazel:
The cycle of “conservative elites hire psychopaths to beat down those who threaten the status quo, find out they can’t control the psychopaths, pay price” actually seems to be insanely common. It’s basically the story of the whole jihadist movement in the Cold War – decades being propped up by the West and its local allies as the regional bulwark against anything left wing, then grows up and turns on them. And not just the jihadists. Propping up right wing military dictators in Latin America? Hello, Falklands. Propping up Saddam Hussein as a bulwark against revolutionary Iran? Hello, Gulf War.
A surprising amount of modern history can be summarized with a few clips from “Once Upon A Time In The West.” Or, if you prefer, “The Dark Knight Rises.”
Patricia Kayden
@mclaren: I agree with you but wonder if the Republicans won’t still shut down the government before they relent and raise the debt ceiling. Somehow, Republicans have to appear strident for their voters and shutting down the government for a couple of weeks always seems to appease them.
debbie
@Belafon:
Similarly, they should let those who are moving their money to the Caymans know that they’ll now have to pay a fee every time they use a road, a bridge, a sewer pipe, etc.
rikyrah
@gratuitous:
The chose to commit ECONOMIC TREASON against this country beginning January 20, 2009.
peach flavored shampoo
Wont matter a whit. Because Dems eat aborted fetuses, confiscate all guns, mandate gay marriage, and are generally icky. Republicans, even dumb ones, carry guns and shoot fags. Ergo, they’re gunna punch the “R” everytime, always, regardless.
RW radio/TV is extremely effective at keeping the rubes misinformed and angry, which precludes them thinking rationally about politics in any fashion.
Brachiator
The Republicans will be Republicans. They can’t help themselves. Their reflex is to try to prevent Obama and the Democrats from governing. The debt ceiling is one hurdle. Stalled appointments is another, almost equally worrisome, problem.
Given the current posturing, I can easily see new GOP House leadership urging more opposition and gridlock.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/gop-senate-barack-obama-cotton-214700
They will use the debt, appointments and the need to pass last minute tax legislation (the tax extenders) as bargaining chips to try to force Obama to make major concessions. And whatever compromises are made, the hard line obstructionism will continue.
But at least we have the ongoing comedy relief of Trump’s insipid demand for Secret Service protection to distract us.
equs_1776
@MattF: Consider TARP. The first try failed to pass, and the Dow dropped some huge amount in 30 minutes. Then they announced they would find a compromise, Dow drop stopped. The crazies are crazier, but they are more in the open now without a general panic like Sept 2008. OH LOOK EBOLA IS BACK!
BGinChi: win-win,then. Go Nancy!
catclub
@Cervantes: Isn’t that ‘third quarter tentacles fall short’?
OzarkHillbilly
Heh, Perfection, from Roy Edroso: UPDATE 2. In comments (which are great), a nice summary by ChrisV82:
Here’s what we’ve seen after 1 Democratic and 2 Republican debates: Democrats are deeply committed to fixing climate destruction, fighting wealth inequality, and making sure people are not discriminated against based on superficial (skin color, gender, etc.) reasons. Republicans are Neanderthals who bang stones on the ground to celebrate the sky god and show deep concern that foreign tribes will attack under the glow of the war moon to steal their furs, burn their huts and rape their birthing wives.
Josie
Does anyone else wonder where Hanna got the cojones to say this in an interview, not as a mistake like McCarthy but as a bald fact? This is going against the grain in a big way. I wonder if someone gave him permission as the first step in part of a plan to sideline Cruz and the freedom caucus. I have no idea how it would work, but I am just curious about the reason for this admission.
mdblanche
@SomeDude: Take comfort that the original Guy was a reactionary who was stopped before he could blow the place up and was gruesomely punished.
@MattF: That sounds like a real Baldrick-level cunning plan.
Redshift
@Patricia Kayden:
Optimist! :-)
If we’re talking about a congressional Republican, it’ll happen on the first day. If we broaden it to Republican public figures in general, including media, well, it’s probably already happening, but it will definitely happen shortly after Election Day.
MattF
@equs_1776: Somewhat OT, I had a brief argument about Ebola with a winger. We were on travel, and were watching one of the news channels going into full panic mode. He said something about it being all Obama’s fault, and I mentioned the point that an epidemiologist had recently made– that you don’t simply ‘catch’ Ebola, you have to catch it from someone. He just blinked open-mouthed– and changed the subject.
mdblanche
@Patricia Kayden: The timing doesn’t allow that this time. The debt ceiling has to be raised by 11/5. A government shutdown wouldn’t start until 12/11.
ThresherK
What is it with Rs wrongly using other peoples’ symbolism and getting cease-and-desist orders? Don’t righties have any friends with appropriate songs and logos?
From Paul Lukas at Uni-Watch:
OzarkHillbilly
@ThresherK:
Good artists copy, great artists steal.
-Pablo Picasso
Schlemazel
@Belafon: It pays all of its profit into the Federal general fund. Effectively its tax rate is 100%. It has been this way for every I believe.
FlipYrWhig
@redshirt:
45% of the people think _everything_ is the Democrats’ fault. We call these people “Republicans.”
Schlemazel
@Chris:
You are right although I didn’t see the ACW that way it was sort of, I just didn’t think it was as clear an example.
Bobby Thomson
I have no faith in Boehner. I don’t think he is conveying any sense of urgency on this, I’m not assured he won’t just leave without a replacement, any replacement has to be presumed insane, and I just don’t trust the guy.
And McConnell is even worse.
Iowa Old Lady
@Germy Shoemangler: When Clinton testifies, her opening statement should be an account of all these revelations.
mdblanche
@FlipYrWhig: In today’s polarized political climate 45% is what passes for a landslide defeat.
Face
I read this originally as “I had a brief argument with Ebola about a winger” and thought, god dayum does that shit evolve quickly if it can now talk.
rikyrah
sure, they can. talk about voter registration. voter participation. And, taking back the Congress. See. I just talked about it.
……………….
Why the Democratic candidates can’t confront the real elephant in the room
By Paul Waldman October 14 at 12:30 PM
In last night’s Democratic debate, there was only one question, to Bernie Sanders, on what may be the most difficult challenge that will confront the next president if he or she is a Democrat: What are you going to do about Congress?
We’ll get to the answer Sanders gave in a moment, but first, some context. When Barack Obama was elected, congressional Republicans made what was in some ways a strategically shrewd decision, that they were going to oppose him on basically everything. Because he started with huge majorities in both houses of Congress, he had an extraordinary record of legislative achievement in his first two years, that opposition notwithstanding. But in 2010 Republicans won the House, and four years after that they took the Senate. For all intents and purposes, legislating was over.
In those two wave elections of 2010 and 2014, a generation of extremely conservative Republicans who viewed all compromise as betrayal were elected, moving the party to the right ideologically and making it far more obstructionist. Now let’s say a Democrat wins in 2016. What happens then?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/10/14/why-the-democratic-candidates-cant-confront-the-real-elephant-in-the-room/
catclub
@Patrick: Patriotism is paying your taxes. Now Exxon, Boeing and Dupont have some patriotism issues.
Bobby Thomson
@mclaren: voters aren’t that smart. The president ALWAYS gets the blame and the credit for the economy. Always.
Amir Khalid
@OzarkHillbilly:
Not sure if that comment was fair to the Neanderthal people.
Fair Economist
@Patricia Kayden: A “conventional” shutdown isn’t possible until after a debt ceiling increase because Boehner already passed a temporary spending bill through December IIRC. A default from not increasing the debt ceiling would have much more serious effects.
At this point, though, the Teanuts have no leverage to force a default. Boehner has no fear of a leadership challenge now. He can bring up a bill and it will pass, without any drama (when he passed the spending extension that way it didn’t even make headlines). In the Senate the nuts can only impose the 3-day debate delay – there’s easily 60 Senators willing to vote against default, and McConnell has always been anti-default.
ThresherK
@OzarkHillbilly: Either they’re not artists, either in the music sense or the Warhol sense. Or they’re not doing it right, because that JEB-as-SEC sign isn’t gonna make anyone forget the SEC.
To take this a bit further, Mike Huckabee doesn’t play, and isn’t pretending he wrote, Tom Petty’s “Won’t Back Down”, which is about the biggest title on Your Hit Parade of “Stop playing my music” orders.
And when’s the last time a Democrat was served papers to stop using a song? I mean, the left doesn’t have a lot of use for the lilting strains of Kid Rock, Lee Greenwood and Ted Nugent at our rallies. But I don’t have to be David Bothsides Brooks to wonder, Has it ever happened?
Randy P
@mclaren: I’ve heard plenty of otherwise intelligent people say “It’s Harry Reid’s fault” about previous government shutdowns. The capacity to believe Fox News is unlimited and unaffected by facts.
Shlemazel
@ThresherK:
I am trying to think of a single song from those 3 any dem would want. Wnag dang pootie tang?
rikyrah
Couldn’t happen to a better Zombie Eyed, Granny Killer.
………………
Speaker or not, Paul Ryan’s career might never be the same
Meredith Shiner
Political correspondent
October 14, 2015
Wisconsin Republican Paul Ryan does not want to be speaker of the House, for reasons that are as numerous as they are well-documented. But as he considers whether to accede to the overwhelming calls of his colleagues to seek the post, his most significant consideration could be the unintended long-term political consequences of ignoring establishment Republicans’ entreaties at a time they believe they need him most.
The reasons not to reach for the speaker’s gavel are obvious: The job is arduous, thankless, and, at this juncture, practically impossible, with Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, resigning and Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., dropping out of the race to succeed him. The hard-right faction of the party, a group of 40 to 50 members, will never believe any person connected to the GOP establishment — a category that includes Ryan, the 2012 Republican vice presidential nominee — will be conservative enough.
Ryan, who presumably wants to run for president someday, would almost certainly be hurting his chances, perhaps irreversibly, by becoming speaker at such a difficult time. On the personal front, he has said he doesn’t want a job that would require him to spend most of his time, including weekends, away from his young children.
But here’s the Catch-22 for the ambitious 45-year-old politician: If Ryan turns down the speakership because he has presidential ambitions, spurning his Republican allies at their most desperate time could potentially alienate him from them indefinitely. In other words, Ryan is at a crossroads, and both pathways seem to lead away from the White House. Take the gavel, compile a record as speaker that makes you unelectable as president. Or refuse the gavel and be caught in a no-man’s land where you’ve ceded much of your establishment clout and put yourself at odds with a wide range of colleagues who literally and very publicly begged you to run.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/speaker-or-not-paul-ryans-career-might-never-be-191431275.html
Belafon
@rikyrah: Therefore (as the writer acknowledges he doesn’t have an answer for) how do we get out of this jam and how do we govern in the mean time?
rikyrah
they don’t care about fiscal responsibility. they never did.
Celeste HeadleeVerified account
@CelesteHeadlee
For GA & other states that declined Medicaid expansion, health costs are higher. By a lot.
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/10/15/448729327/states-that-declined-to-expand-medicaid-face-higher-costs?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=science&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews …
gelfling545
@Germy Shoemangler: Oh, oh. Congressman Hanna is showing signs of a vestigial conscience. Time to run him out of the party.
Woodrowfan
@Schlemazel:
1. pretty far. including armed thugs to intimidate the other guy’s supporters.
2. lots.
Paul in KY
@BGinCHI: Or Blazing Saddles. McConnell pointing a gun at himself and saying “Don’t shoot, or the turtle gets it”
Shlemazel
@Randy P:
Of course its Reeds fault! If he would just compromise and dine on anthrax and tire rims there would be no problem.
Amir Khalid
@ThresherK:
It’s not necessarily a Democratic musician vs. Republican politician thing. Steven Tyler, who sent the Donald a cease-and-desist letter over the use of Dream On, is a Republican. Tyler says that for him it’s about protecting the intellectual property of songwriters and performers.
Paul in KY
@mclaren: Don’t count your chickens before they hatch (on next Pres.). It’s a looooong way off till election in 2016.
Thing appear to look good right now, but in 1999 I would have bet serious money that Al Gore was going to be our next President.
Nobody should be in anyway complacent here!
sempronia
@Shlemazel:
I remember Heart serving the McCain campaign with a cease-and-desist order to stop introducing Palin with their song “Barracuda”. They didn’t stop, so Heart issued another statement saying that they were donating all the royalties to the Obama campaign. lol…
BGinCHI
@Paul in KY: I should have thought of that. Perfect.
The GOP is a humorless parody.
Fair Economist
@rikyrah:
This statement (which I’ve seen in other places) is misleading. His children are 13, 11, and 10, give or take some birthday timing. That’s normally called “older” children – post-pubescent children are mostly called teenagers. It’s a great age for most kids and I could understand why he would want to spend time with them but spending time away from them is pretty reasonable at that age.
Shlemazel
@Woodrowfan:
I hold an incredibly dim view of my fellow Americans but I’d like to think it won’t end at 1933
geg6
@OzarkHillbilly:
Boehner wasn’t going to lose his seat any time soon, either. But they forced him out anyway. Think the Turtle didn’t notice?
Paul in KY
@MattF: That ‘someone’ was Obama!!!! Dontcha know?? Obama, since he was born in Kenyastan, is immune to Ebola & a carrier of it! It’s all in the bible!
dmsilev
More Brinks trucks, stat!:
Perhaps this time, the trucks could move forward instead of backing. up.? Just a thought.
Shlemazel
@Paul in KY:
Not your fault, Gore got elected but was not allowed to serve his term.
benw
@Paul in KY: I read that chapter: Book of Loonasis 1:3.
Princess
Carson may not understand the debt ceiling, but Wall Street does. Wall Street needs the debt ceiling raised, and Wall Street pays the bills for the clown car, so it will be raised. What GOP Kabuki goes on between now and then will only, however, help the Donald Trump wing of the party. It is starting to look more to me like Trump really is going to pull this thing out. In which case, I would not be surprised to see an independent run from some self-funding Wall Street backed No Labels Lieberman-Huntsman-Bloomberg type, unless they decide Hillary would actually be good enough for them.
rococo
@Schlemazel: I don’t think it’s unfair at all, The Freedom Caucus types want to bring the economy down and are looking forward to societal breakdown. Two of their most important constituencies think that economic chaos will benefit them. The billionaires with tons of offshore assets will be able to scoop up distressed American properties for a song, consolidating their power beyond any possible challenge. And the Glenn Beck wing of gun-toting, gold-buying seed bankers think they’ll wind up feudal lords of their neighborhoods and hollers.
And maybe they’re right. “When people are buying bread with wheelbarrows of devalued currency/ and armed right-wing militias control the streets” …. how does the rest of the song go?
Brachiator
@Belafon:
Sadly, the probable answer is “you don’t.” If the new House leadership turns out to be even more deranged than Boehner, they may try to hold out until the November elections and pray that a Republican gets elected. As I pointed out upthread, you not only have the debt ceiling fight, which they will lose, but also stalled executive branch and judicial appointments, and potential political blackmail over tradition year-end tax legislation.
Paul in KY
@Fair Economist: They probably want him to take the job!
amk
@rikyrah:
Of course, if the coward was brave enough, he could run a true bipartisanship house ignoring the teabagging crowd, pad up his resume with some good governance skills and run on that record in 2020.
Shlemazel
@dmsilev:
I’m not gonna be here much this weekend, please save that link and post it if right to retch shows up
Paul in KY
@benw: Thanks be to Nutter-God.
amk
@dmsilev:
The troll will refuse to see it but dumbya 3’s donors will and those damned trucks will be pulled out.
JPL
OT
CHICAGO — J. Dennis Hastert, the small-town wrestling coach who rose to political power as the longest-serving Republican speaker of the House, intends to plead guilty as part of an agreement in a case where he is accused of skirting banking laws and lying to the federal investigators, according to proceedings Thursday in Federal District Court here.
nytimes.com
ThresherK (GPad)
@Amir Khalid: Yeah, I read that afterwards, thanks for the correction. Still curious if “Dream On” should be any candidate’s idea of an image song unless it’s Jim Gilmore.
Maybe Trump, with his huge checkbook, can pay Tyler and negotiate a contract to alter a lyric to “Love on an Escalator”, for history’s most famous escalator trip.
jayackroyd
Marcy and Greg discuss this post.
https://twitter.com/JayAckroyd/status/654671616530493440
Shlemazel
@amk:
He could do that, it would insure he never won a primary. I’d be ok with that
NickM
@amk: But then he wouldn’t get to starve grannies, and where’s the fun in that?
mdblanche
@Paul in KY: “Isn’t anyone going to help that poor reptile?”
ThresherK (GPad)
@Shlemazel: Colin McEnroe, WNPR standout (not the NPR mothership), use this song a few times as bumper music for coverage John McCain in 2008.
Perfect application. Sure, there are many old Democrats, but none of them have the seething cranky neediness in all the wrong places.
nominus
” Would Cruz or Paul blow this up in order to save their failing White House runs? Would Mitch then be willing to end that insurrection to save the country?”
Perhaps, but there were already a few people in Congress who wanted to stick a knife between Cruz’s ribs, and now there will probably be a line forming. After the last bridge burns down, Cruz might realize he’s standing on an island. You don’t get to fail twice, call everyone an asshole, and then think that they’ll go to the mat for you again.
Peale
Just a quibble – but I think having a pair of jokers is actually a good hand and one wouldn’t be bluffing if one had them. In games where jokers are dealt, they usually are quite good to have.
Bobby Thomson
@Princess: just like in 2013. Right?
amk
@NickM:
Of course, there is that.
Renie
@dmsilev: Maybe one of the trucks got a flat tire? Cuz ya know….stuff happens.
Jim Faith
@BGinCHI:
Or like Sheriff Bart in ‘Blazing Saddles’
Brachiator
OT and just in:
Ted Cruz delivers a deeply considered and nuanced observation about Black Lives Matter:
Cruz is competing with Ben Carson to see who can say the most ridiculous crap possible.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/10/14/3712373/ted-cruz-black-lives-matter/
Calouste
@ThresherK: Democrats don’t need to use music for campaign events without asking permission, they have A-list musicians come and play live at their events. Springsteen did a few gigs for Obama for example.
Paul in KY
@mdblanche: LOLing!!
Paul in KY
@Peale: Good quibble!
J R in WV
@Iowa Old Lady:
She should also detail the embassy attacks under the “He kept us safe, kind of?” George Walker Bush administration.
Number of attacks, number of fatalities, etc, all far more expensive in material, money and lives under Bush’s and Powell’s or Rice’s administration than under Obama’s or Clinton’s.
He Kept Us Safe! yeh, right! Except for those airliners falling into cities and fields, wars in the middle east, etc, etc.
Worst President Ever! Start saying so now, showing why, over and over until election day November 2016!
rikyrah
Black Deaths Matter
Historic black cemeteries have devolved into trash dumps and overgrown forests, while tidy Confederate memorials still draw public funding.
By
Seth Freed Wessler
On a spring morning a few years ago in St. Louis, Missouri, Etta Daniels, a spry 72-year-old with oval wire-frame glasses, was in the northeast corner of Greenwood Cemetery, where she often came on Saturdays, searching for gravestones “before they disappear.” She’d already spent more than a decade helping families locate and honor their loved ones buried in Greenwood. That day, she was joined by 69-year-old Barbara Harris, who is “not usually one to go to the woods.” Wearing gardening gloves and long sleeves to keep off the poison ivy and bugs, Harris was hoping that, with Daniels’s help, she could find her great-grandmother’s grave.
“We had to crawl over great big trees that had fallen,” Harris says of the trek through one of St. Louis’s oldest African-American cemeteries, founded less than a decade after the Civil War. “I wanted to find her grave again, but the stones are all covered and the paths, you can’t find them.”
In the thick forest that Greenwood has become, the once-grassy plot where Harris’s great-grandmother, Henrietta Flowers Ware, was buried in 1966 had disappeared. Back then, Greenwood’s 32 acres were well kept, the lawns mowed close by the cemetery’s owners and by the families and funeral homes that patronized it. But by the late 1980s, Harris found whole sections uncut, the ravines piled with trash and junked cars. On her final trip to Greenwood, Harris’s car got stuck on one of the roads. “I didn’t feel it was safe to visit anymore,” she says.
http://www.thenation.com/article/black-deaths-matter/
gex
@ThresherK: Back in the day, I remember reading a blog post from a developer who had his entire code stolen (comments and all) by the McCain team. The guy literally could look at the source and see that it was his software being used by McCain and team without payment or credit or anything like that.
The GOP’s constant need to disregard the property rights of others should be a sign to their followers that they are aristocrats, not capitalists. However, I think their base has trouble saying the word aristocrats, defaulting to aristocats every single time they try.
Dolly Llama
Forgive me if someone has brought this up before, but firepaulryan.com is an actual thing, and none other than former Georgia Rep. Paul Broun is one of the prime movers behind it.
rikyrah
The ‘ smart one’.
Bush’s $4.8 Million Ad Blitz In N.H. Has Had No Effect On His Polling
ByTIERNEY SNEED
PublishedOCTOBER 15, 2015, 10:26 AM EDT
The $4.8 million TV and radio ad blitz in New Hampshire by former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and his associated super Pacs has done little to bump up his polling in the state, which is considered crucial to his campaign.
A report by Politico Thursday notes that in the weeks since the ad buy — which has pro-Bush ads taking up 60 percent of the political airspace in the state — the former governor’s average poll numbers have actually dipped down, from 9 percent to 8.7 percent.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bush-ad-buy-new-hampshire
rikyrah
racist to the core.
……………….
Alabama Guv Dismisses Outcry Over DMV Closures: ‘It’s Race Politics At Its Worst’
ByTIERNEY SNEED
PublishedOCTOBER 15, 2015, 11:51 AM EDT
Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley (R) called the outcry over the state’s mass closure of DMV offices after passing a photo voter ID law “race politics at its worst,” in remarks to state Republican leaders in a closed-door meeting last week.
A recording of the Oct. 7 meeting was obtained by AL.com. In it, Bentley discussed with 17 members of the state GOP Steering Committee the Alabama budget woes that had prompted the closures and dismissed the concerns it would make harder for residents — especially African-Americans in the rural regions particularly hard hit by the closures — to vote.
Per Al.com’s description of the recording:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bentley-alabama-dmv-race-politics-voting
cmorenc
@gratuitous:
The conservative wet dream is a return to the respective scope and roles of the federal government and states as it existed in the 1880s or 1920s, i.e. before the presidencies of Teddy and Franklin D. Roosevelt (and the cataclysm of the Great Depression). IMHO most of them understand that although this is no longer entirely possible, they do still think it’s possible to force a fundamental rearrangement along lines vastly less incompatible with hard-core conservative ideology, even if a return to perfect compatibility is unachievable. Many of them also understand that the current moment in American history may be their last window where such a large-scale rearrangement might ever even be possible at all, and that the window will soon be closing unless they achieve a fundamental transformative victory now.
THIS is actually a much more key reason why the GOP has persistently mounted such fierce, obstructive-minded opposition to the Affordable Care Act and Obama’s Presidency itself than residual racism within the GOP base, because to them it embodies a substantial, irreversible step over the threshold of transforming the US into a European-style social welfare state, beyond which any dreams of also revisiting Social Security or Medicare become absolutely and not merely mostly impossible. Never mind that the original proposal for the framework on which the ACA was crafted came from the conservative Heritage Foundation, precisely to assist heading off the original Clinton Health Insurance initiative in the early 90s, and to help insure that if legislation was successfully passed, it wouldn’t undermine the basic private health insurance system and market by transforming it along the lines of Medicare.
NonyNony
@Peale: So perhaps “bluffing with a pair of the ‘Rules of the Game’ cards that the dealer forgot to take out of the deck” would be a better metaphor?
Peale
@NonyNony: I like it!
Elie
My concern about the Republicans is that they seem unable to comprehend or accept cause and effect. It is pretty clear that the teahadists want ideological purity and to assert their power, but my fear is that they don’t play out the consequences of that to themselves, even, much less the country. They just know the word “no” and to stop things they don’t want.. I strongly believe the Christian fundamentalist ideology has helped to shape this approach — emphasizing ideological perfection and taking your punishment whatever it is, as an article of your faith. Just yesterday on the news a couple in one of those Christian sects beat their sons until one died and the other is in critical condition. There was obviously no meter for judging for how far “punishment” can go and that is my concern with a lot of these people. There is a mind blindness — they may be backed into a corner but there is no concomitant acceptance that they must then relent and accept that they lost. No. Boehner and the other leadership knows these weirdos and forced, I imagine, procedures in the House to keep the lid on the pot as much as they could. There is no negotiation or concessions with these people. They will have to be extracted from having any say so on decisions somehow, and that is going to be tough. They cannot be motivated by consequence of pain or loss. They can only be contained and marginalized away from the levers of decision making.
catclub
@mdblanche:
A debt ceiling breach would stop all checks going out from the Federal government. The employees might also stop coming in to work, if that went on very long. So equally bad or worse than a government shutdown – which has never shut down ALL functions of government.
rikyrah
Jane The Virgin- Season 1, is now streaming at Netflix!
mdblanche
@catclub: I stand corrected. Now could you tell me where we’re going and why we’re in this handbasket?
Brachiator
@cmorenc:
I don’t think this is entirely true. It has been debunked a number of times by other posters here.
Here is Scott Lemieux in a past article on the issue:
http://prospect.org/article/no-obamacare-wasnt-republican-proposal
That said, I agree with many of your other points.
and
Some of this opposition is, I think, linked to an absolute certainty in the minds of these conservatives that the free market, unrestrained by any pull by the government on the wealth of individuals, will always maximize the public good in the long run. This is reinforced by the fantasy that America in the 1880s or the 1920s was bursting at the seams with prosperity for all, and that this fantasy bubble would continue forever and ever as long as you never had taxation of regulation.
sukabi
@mdblanche: for that to have any significance, they’d have to know a bit of British history. And as we’re well aware, US history is a bridge too far for the fucknutz trying to blow things up here.
Peale
@rikyrah: Perception is reality!
Brachiator
@mdblanche:
Sounds like a good time to rent the movie, “V for Vendetta.” or buy the Alan Moore graphic novel.
Of course, some of the Tea Party knuckleheads may think that they are like the hero of this story.
sm*t cl*de
@Paul in KY:
@mdblanche:
Senator McConnell lays on his back, his belly baking in the hot sun, beating his legs trying to turn himself over. But he can’t. Not without your help. But you’re not helping.
redshirt
@Brachiator: I read the book and saw the movie and the book is like a 1,000 times better. Especially now for being so 80’s dated.
The movie wasn’t terrible, though, just not as good as I hoped. But maybe that’s what preconceptions do to things – ruin them.
Applejinx
@sm*t cl*de: I’m SO not helping :D
mclaren
@Chris:
Or how about the Roman empire? (Hire praetorian guard to protect your country…wind up getting ruled by guys selected by the praetorian guard.)
mclaren
@cmorenc:
I dunno about that.
Seems to me that the conservative wet dream is to turn the United States of America into the Confederacy.
But YMMV.
mclaren
@Elie:
But my dear girl, isn’t that just as true of the Democrats?
President Obama keeps drone-bombing “terrorists,” keeps killing wedding parties, keeps being amazed that the children of said innocent murdered wedding brides and grooms turn into terrorists and perpetrate more terror attacks.
Joe Biden and company keep coddling Wall Street crime lords, the Wall Street cronies keep stealing everyone blind and giving themselves yoooooooge bonuses out of taxpayer bailouts, then Biden and company keep being astounded that the U.S. economy isn’t growing anymore.
Hillary Clinton and entourage keep talking tough about locking up American citizens for the ‘crime’ of revealing atrocities and illegalities by the U.S. government, this enrages young people with a sense of justice, they keep revealing more evidence of atrocities and illegalities by the U.S. government — how could it possibly continue to happen? Haven’t we beaten American citizens until their morale has improved?
Serious lack of insight into cause & effect on both sides of the aisle, seems to me.