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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

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Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

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Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

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It’s the corruption, stupid.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Open Thread: This Year’s Deeply Weird GOP Entity Initiates Core Dump

Open Thread: This Year’s Deeply Weird GOP Entity Initiates Core Dump

by Anne Laurie|  October 25, 201512:26 am| 226 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, JEB! = John Ellis Not-Bush 2016, Ever Get The Feeling You've Been Cheated?, Republican Crime Syndicate - aka the Bush Admin.

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This petulant, entitled, cry-baby rant from @JebBush is awesome. Good eye, @jaketapper. pic.twitter.com/E4xLCB0H5u

— Steve Marmel (@Marmel) October 24, 2015

When you start out with a hundred million handed to you, it's a shock when you have to work. https://t.co/cKyCBMKBfz

— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) October 24, 2015

the presidency is all about gridlock, frustration, and being demonized for no real reason — it's a shitty job

— Simon Maloy (@SimonMaloy) October 24, 2015

Friday, according to NYMag:

If there’s one thing Jeb Bush wants to show Republican primary voters worried that the presidential candidate isn’t quite so conservative, it’s that he really loves making spending cuts…

And now Jeb Bush is showing that he not only knows how to drastically cut costs in government, he is capable of showing off those same slashing skills with his own campaign!

The Bush campaign announced today that it plans on cutting payroll costs by 40 percent, while also trying to save on travel and other nonessential spending. The campaign’s Miami headquarters will also be downsized. Bush’s campaign is so good at slimming down that this is the second time it has done so in the past two months…

The former front-runner’s poll numbers have fallen to the single digits, and his fund-raising obviously hasn’t been impressive enough to sustain a giant campaign. On Thursday, Megyn Kelly asked Bush, “What would it take to make you get out?”…

Hamilton Nolan, at Gawker:

Despite the financial support of all of America’s rich people, amiable Republic meerkat Jeb Bush’s presidential campaign is now being run with all the shabby frugality of a thrift store that is slowly going bankrupt.

It seems that old JEB is having some donor troubles. The trouble is donors want to give money to somebody who might win. And Jeb Bush, despite being in peak physical condition, reminds voters of their elementary school principal too much for them to ever really like him. Now, the JEB campaign is slashing expenses and payroll costs by up to 40%, Bloomberg reports. So deep are the cuts that “Some senior-level staff and consultants will continue to work with the campaign on a volunteer basis.”…

Bush fundraiser says Jeb's campaign is in "a death spiral" https://t.co/Ohb2HjewVI pic.twitter.com/mgfxtr3uOW

— Ryan Lizza (@RyanLizza) October 24, 2015

Saturday, as reported in the Huffington Post:

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) on Saturday brushed off speculation that his presidential campaign was struggling, and said that cutting staff and costs was an example of good leadership…

“That’s what leaders do,” he said as he campaigned in South Carolina, according to USA Today.

After an anonymous donor told The Washington Post that Bush’s campaign had entered a “death spiral,” the former Florida governor said that reports of his campaign’s struggling were nonsense.

“Blah, blah, blah,” he said. “That’s my answer — blah, blah, blah.”…

HELP DESK TICKET – SERVICE TEAM EN ROUTE...

This sounds way more like an intervention than a meeting. https://t.co/4X4jIosGnG

— Daniel Drezner (@dandrezner) October 23, 2015

Major Garrett, at CBS News:

Jeb Bush hunkers down with family to assess his candidacy
Jeb Bush will attend a finance meeting this weekend in Houston convened by former President George H. W. Bush and attended by Bush’s brother, former President George W. Bush, CBS News has learned.

The session, designed to assess where Bush’s candidacy stands in the face of large-scale staff cutbacks and underwhelming poll numbers, will also be attended by Bush’s mother, Barbara Bush. The governor’s campaign confirmed the meeting will be held Sunday and Monday.

CBS News has also learned George W. Bush will headline a fundraiser for Jeb Bush in Georgetown (Washington, DC) on Oct. 29. The fundraising email, which went out earlier this week, was sent by George W. Bush’s two former chiefs of staff, Andy Card and Josh Bolten. Jeb Bush will not attend the fund-raiser…

Earlier this month, asked whether his brother would play a bigger role in his campaign, whether he’d come to the rescue, Bush told CBS News, “No, he doesn’t have to rescue me….I’m on the path. I’m totally confident about where we are. This is a long haul.”

Over that long haul, though, those who are funding his campaign may disagree. A GOP source who interacts regularly with the Bush campaign said there is a “donor revolt in progress,” as early Bush backers have grown dismayed over the reversal of their candidate’s fortunes.

Complaints are more frequent about the Bush inner circle and Bush’s message, schedule and intensity…

“There are head winds,” said one GOP operative familiar with party fund-raising and influential donors. “It’s a really hard climate for Jeb. But his field operations in all the early states are really good. He is going to be in this for a while.”

While that is true, Bush must also concede his campaign remains mired in single digits in Iowa and New Hampshire and that most donors and bundlers of campaign contributions once aligned with Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker have either gravitated to Florida Sen. Marco Rubio or remained neutral. Either way, Bush has not inherited much of the available donor or bundler resources Walker left behind when he quit the race…

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Reader Interactions

226Comments

  1. 1.

    rikyrah

    October 25, 2015 at 12:31 am

    I have seen it in several places, but I still can’t believe that Jeb said “blah blah blah.”
    I still find that ridiculous that he would be that silly.

  2. 2.

    trollhattan

    October 25, 2015 at 12:35 am

    They’re going to end up with some kind of Goldwater equivalent, except he won’t be Goldwater, he’ll be Joe McCarthy. And finally, Ann Coulter can have a happy dance.

  3. 3.

    David Koch

    October 25, 2015 at 12:38 am

    Hillz gave a hellva speech at the J/J dinner.

    She has some very attractive supporters.

    Boorishly, when Hillary came on stage, Sanders’ supporters staged a walk out. That’s not how you win over supporters. How can you expect people to see your point of view when you’re poking them in the eye.

  4. 4.

    Amir Khalid

    October 25, 2015 at 12:39 am

    If Jeb quits within sixty days, he can be home for Christmas. I understand the temptation.

  5. 5.

    amk

    October 25, 2015 at 12:40 am

    100 million dollars to fail. Typical bush.

  6. 6.

    David Koch

    October 25, 2015 at 12:40 am

    Here’s a photo of the lovely Katy Perry going wild doing Hilz speech.

  7. 7.

    benw

    October 25, 2015 at 12:41 am

    @David Koch: Love the youngish guy with no tie giving the side-eye to Ms. Perry’s boobs.

  8. 8.

    Geoduck

    October 25, 2015 at 12:43 am

    Despite all this, I expect he’ll still end up being the nominee, and lose fairly badly to Hillary.

  9. 9.

    Ruckus

    October 25, 2015 at 12:43 am

    @amk:
    He didn’t really need that much to fail.

    That was just how much it took to make it way past obvious to anyone/everyone as to how bad he really is.

  10. 10.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 12:43 am

    Jeb’s? Mom’s pissed!

  11. 11.

    David Koch

    October 25, 2015 at 12:44 am

    Here’s a really good photo feed. A ton of women, especially young college women participated, which is a good indication of future turnout.

  12. 12.

    mai naem mobile

    October 25, 2015 at 12:47 am

    SchadBushenfreud? Do not give a shit about any of the Bushes,even poppy. I just hope Jeb! kills it for his son George P(eabrain). Jeb! is the dick who set the ground for Dubbya to win and deserves every bit of crap that hits him on his ugly Bush face.

  13. 13.

    Mike J

    October 25, 2015 at 12:50 am

    @David Koch: Katy Perry was a Christian pop singer. Does her performance pre JJ dinner indicate that Christians are breaking for Hillary? I think it means that Republicans have the Satan worshipers sewn up. It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

  14. 14.

    Punchy

    October 25, 2015 at 12:51 am

    Jeb’s done. Dee you en. No amount of crooked scratch is going to lift his standing above the 7%. Why the fuck must we continue to “discuss” this Cain-esque also-ran?

  15. 15.

    David Koch

    October 25, 2015 at 12:54 am

    @Mike J: Christian or not, I’d worship her.

  16. 16.

    amk

    October 25, 2015 at 12:54 am

    @Geoduck:

    The boy is out after SC. If not before.

    No charisma. No passion (donald dreck is right about this). No sane strategy. They will only get you so far.

  17. 17.

    Belafon

    October 25, 2015 at 1:00 am

    @Mike J:

    I think it means that Republicans have the Satan worshipers sewn up.

    The Satan worshippers are doing things like defending a woman’s right to an abortion and protecting the first amendment. I think you’re thinking of the Mammon worshippers.

  18. 18.

    FortGeek

    October 25, 2015 at 1:01 am

    Might be too soon, but only Robert De Niro can really express my mirth.

    The only thing better will be watching the rest of the gopper dirtbags flame out, too.

  19. 19.

    Mike J

    October 25, 2015 at 1:01 am

    @amk: Bush could have overcome all of those issues if the other 312 people in the GOP primaries were dropping out at the expected rate. His strategy was always just to be the last man standing. Working for it was never in the cards.

    In the past, the crazies always dominated the polls and the news, but when the (relatively) sane people started actually casting ballots, the establishment candidate always came out on top. There are no sane people left in the Republican party. It is the party of Trump.

  20. 20.

    Steeplejack

    October 25, 2015 at 1:03 am

    On Thursday, Megyn Kelly asked Bush, “What would it take to make you get out?”

    Phrasing!

  21. 21.

    Mike J

    October 25, 2015 at 1:05 am

    @Belafon:

    The Satan worshippers are doing things like defending a woman’s right to an abortion

    The Satan worshippers are defending her right to choose. The Christian god mandates abortions in certain circumstances, like if one man gets another man’s property pregnant.

    But I never meant this to be a theological argument, just trying to steal the thunder of those always trying to claim Him for their side.

  22. 22.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 1:10 am

    Trump is single handedly destroying Bush well before a vote is cast.

  23. 23.

    Belafon

    October 25, 2015 at 1:11 am

    @Mike J: Agree, but we’ve reached a point when those worshipping Satan are better people than those worshipping the god of greed. We’re in age where we can say “Even the Satanists aren’t that bad.”

  24. 24.

    amk

    October 25, 2015 at 1:12 am

    @Mike J:

    the establishment candidate always came out on top.

    two things.

    you have to be among top three in polls to be considered as the establishment candie.

    2016 is very different from 2012. While the later was all about anti-obama (and who had the best chance to topple the kenyan muslin usurper), the former is all about anti-establishment. Proof – boner getting shitcanned and yet the crazy caucus calling the shots still.

  25. 25.

    Wilson Heath

    October 25, 2015 at 1:13 am

    Whither the Brinks. Trucks. of yestertroll?

  26. 26.

    amk

    October 25, 2015 at 1:13 am

    @redshirt:

    Yup. And the ‘smart one’ doesn’t have a clue about what to do with the carnival barker.

  27. 27.

    David Koch

    October 25, 2015 at 1:14 am

    @FortGeek: Homer Simpson did a hilarious cape fear impersonation.

  28. 28.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 1:17 am

    @amk:

    Yup. And the ‘smart one’ doesn’t have a clue about what to do with the carnival barker.

    And in ridiculing Jeb?, Trump also ridicules the Republican party of now and of the last 20 years. He’s mocked every major totem the Repukes bow down to. Taxes. 9/11. Iraq. Has he mocked Reagan? I don’t know. But I bet maybe he has. Probably not though.

    That’s off limits.

  29. 29.

    Anne Laurie

    October 25, 2015 at 1:25 am

    @Geoduck:

    Despite all this, I expect he’ll still end up being the nominee, and lose fairly badly to Hillary.

    Yeah, I’m sure you’re right on the first assertion, and sincerely hope you’re right about the second!

  30. 30.

    Anoniminous

    October 25, 2015 at 1:27 am

    @amk:

    JEB! is about where McCain was in 2007 in national polling. McCain was struggling in the early states as well. There’s no doubt JEB! is in trouble but it is still too early to count him out.

  31. 31.

    amk

    October 25, 2015 at 1:27 am

    @redshirt:

    Yup, dreck is the perfect troll.

  32. 32.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 1:28 am

    There’s no way RtR or whatever he’s called next is a paid or professional troll. NO WAY.

    He’s just a troll. Any conservative at this place these days is almost by definition a troll, since so few sane ones are left.

    IE they get off on working you all up. One post of theirs creates sincere responses by nice and sane and decent people who feel the honest need to correct this misinformed person on the internet.

    IT NEVER WORKS! Don’t bother, it’s a waste of time and more importantly, good will.

    Only by ignoring trolls can we defeat them. Well, that and banning.

  33. 33.

    Anne Laurie

    October 25, 2015 at 1:30 am

    @redshirt:

    And in ridiculing Jeb?, Trump also ridicules the Republican party of now and of the last 20 years.

    I’ve heard a theory that Trump only got into the race for-realio this time because he personally wanted to make Jeb suffer. If that’s true, Trump will quit shortly after Jeb flames out — but in all seriousness, I don’t think Jeb’s gonna be allowed to flame out, no matter how much humiliation he has to stomach, no matter how many primaries he loses.

    Only thing I’m absolutely sure of: The GOP primaries are going to get even weirder than us (mostly) sane people ever imagined!

  34. 34.

    srv

    October 25, 2015 at 1:31 am

    “I have no feeling for the electorate anymore,” said John H. Sununu, the former New Hampshire governor who helped the elder Bush win the 1988 primary there and went on to serve as his White House chief of staff. “It is not responding the way it used to. Their priorities are so different that if I tried to analyze it I’d be making it up.”

    So many low-energy cucks, falling by the wayside. Now that Trump has defeated Bush, he can focus his energies on Clinton.

    It’s going to be a blowout:

    A new poll of Massachusetts voters suggests New York real estate mogul Donald Trump holds a yuuuge lead over his opponents in the Republican presidential primary.

    Trump was the candidate of choice for 47.8 percent of the respondents in a new Emerson College Polling Society poll of likely Republican primary voters. Trump was far and away the front-runner, ahead of Dr. Ben Carson, who came in second with 13.9 percent and Florida Senator Marco Rubio with 11.8 percent.

  35. 35.

    amk

    October 25, 2015 at 1:31 am

    @Anoniminous:

    Nope, mittbot in 2008 was where dumbya3 is now and we all know how that turned out.

    mcangry scored NH and carried on that momentum while this feckless fecker is nowhere near.

  36. 36.

    SoupCatcher

    October 25, 2015 at 1:33 am

    @efgoldman: If I remember correctly, the band made fun of the potato famine.

  37. 37.

    David Koch

    October 25, 2015 at 1:33 am

    @Anoniminous: but McGramps was very popular in New Hampshire. He had won NH by a whopping 19 ptins in 2000. Plus the corporate media loved him and eagerly carried his water. Still do – they’ve crowned him President for life of Sunday Talk.

    ¿Jeb? doesn’t have any of those assets.

  38. 38.

    Anoniminous

    October 25, 2015 at 1:34 am

    I can’t see the GOP Establishment and Corporate Wings letting Trump win the nomination. With him at the head of the ticket they’d definitely lose the presidency and Senate. And maybe even the House. As bad as JEB! is he’s still doing better than the other possibilities: Rubio, Kasich.

    Having said that, as of 10/24/15 I don’t see a single state where JEB! has the polling to have the slightest chance of getting delegates. Still have months to go before voting starts so there is the opportunity for the dim bulb to turn things around.

  39. 39.

    amk

    October 25, 2015 at 1:36 am

    @David Koch:

    Yup, ¿Jeb? can’t get the msm to kiss his a$$, however hard he tried. Proof – even megyn effing kelly baiting him with what will it take for you to drop out? That was a direct kick in his fat guts.

    eta: love your ¿Jeb? meme.

  40. 40.

    Amir Khalid

    October 25, 2015 at 1:36 am

    @srv:
    In a rational world, Trump wouldn’t be so close to winning a major party’s nomination for president. But a plurality of one major party’s supporters don’t live in a rational world/.

  41. 41.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 1:37 am

    @Anoniminous: I’m reporting from 10/25 – THE FUTURE – and Jeb? is still sinking in the polls, and in the hearts of rich republicans.

  42. 42.

    FortGeek

    October 25, 2015 at 1:38 am

    @David Koch: I might have actually seen this one back in ’93.

  43. 43.

    Steeplejack

    October 25, 2015 at 1:39 am

    @benw:

    Hey, the John Boehner clone just behind is scoping her out too.

  44. 44.

    amk

    October 25, 2015 at 1:41 am

    stolen from rawstory

    Sadly for Jeb, the only Democrat he had a chance of beating, Lincoln Chaffee, just dropped out.

  45. 45.

    Anoniminous

    October 25, 2015 at 1:41 am

    @amk: @David Koch:

    At this time in 2007 McCain was polling 12.5% in NH. JEB! has yet to crawl back into double digits, he’s at 9.3%. McCain only won NH by a couple of points IIRC against stiff competition from the MittBot.

    With JEB!’s connections to the Establishment and the GOTV of they control in the State and local parties it’s way too soon to entirely discount his chances.

  46. 46.

    trollhattan

    October 25, 2015 at 1:44 am

    @Anne Laurie:
    Dear lord, I just had an image of Bar, grabbing John by the ear, dragging him out of his room and marching him back to schoolcampaign headquarters.

    “You’re out of this race when I say you are and not a minute sooner, do you hear me?”

  47. 47.

    Botsplainer

    October 25, 2015 at 1:44 am

    Not feeling it, Redshirt. Bar manager is cockblocking.

    Maybe I should make another play for the mousy, yet hot yoga instructor at the bar down the road.

  48. 48.

    patrick II

    October 25, 2015 at 1:46 am

    Jeb?

    I don’t want to be elected president just to see gridlock

    Aside from being petulant, this is really dumb. Republicans own the house until 2020. If Bush wins in 2016 it means there is at least a decent chance of a Republican Senate. In 2018 23 of the 33 seats up for election are democrats, plus 2 independents who caucus with the democrats. Bush would have a good chance at least two years of a republican house, senate and white house and a decent chance for four. When you think of all the bills the republicans have been trying to get passed the last few years and add in the potential Supreme Court nominations, he could destroy this country nearly as thoroughly as his brother did.

    It’s hard to believe, but his brother seems to be the smarter of the two.

  49. 49.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 1:49 am

    @Botsplainer:

    Not feeling it, Redshirt. Bar manager is cockblocking.

    Maybe I should make another play for the mousy, yet hot yoga instructor at the bar down the road.

    Why not? The night is warm and young, follow your lust into the Mexican dust.

  50. 50.

    amk

    October 25, 2015 at 1:52 am

    @Anoniminous:

    And yet with poor poll numbers, no money and no real gotv, mcangry won by 6% against mittbot, which is a big enough margin.

    I know mcangry and jeb bush ain’t no mcangry.

    Also. too. Look at srv’s post above on bushies’ bff sununu whining about the fucking clueless voters.

    (Promise last time I will refer the troll’s post)

  51. 51.

    Botsplainer

    October 25, 2015 at 1:52 am

    Bar manager clearly hates romance.

  52. 52.

    Amir Khalid

    October 25, 2015 at 1:52 am

    @Anne Laurie:
    We’ve already seen Republicans spend a whole day on TV making Hillary, the Democratic frontrunner, look more like a president than any of their own party’s candidates does. I’m not sure how the party could top that for weirdness, but like you I expect them to manage it.

  53. 53.

    amk

    October 25, 2015 at 1:53 am

    @Botsplainer:

    You are going to get beaten up tonight, aren’t ya?

  54. 54.

    Botsplainer

    October 25, 2015 at 1:55 am

    @redshirt:

    Shit. We talk. I talk of settling and punching out, she studies me, dissuades.

    Shit.

  55. 55.

    Gravenstone

    October 25, 2015 at 1:56 am

    This is pretty much the death knell for the Jebster. This petulant rant will be fodder for every opposition campaign ad from now through eternity. Couldn’t happen to a nicer asshole (and family).

  56. 56.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 1:56 am

    @Botsplainer:

    Shit. We talk. I talk of settling and punching out, she studies me, dissuades.

    Shit.

    There’s more fish in the cenotes.

  57. 57.

    Botsplainer

    October 25, 2015 at 1:59 am

    @redshirt:

    Lots of eyefucking, amigo. I can’t ignore that.

    Like I said, killer smile. Makes me melt.

  58. 58.

    srv

    October 25, 2015 at 2:00 am

    @Amir Khalid: The People can only take so much tyranny from unelected judges and near-dictators.

    America is on the brink, and only a real leader like Trump can step us back from that doom.

  59. 59.

    amk

    October 25, 2015 at 2:01 am

    @Gravenstone:

    shorter jebbie: well, you won’t have jeb to kick around any more.

  60. 60.

    Steeplejack

    October 25, 2015 at 2:04 am

    @FortGeek:

    Yeah, I had to stop and do a Google search to see if I could find a picture of the “Luv” and “Hāt” tattoos that Sideshow Bob had on his (cartoon) fingers, approximating the “Love” and “Hate” that Robert Mitchum had in The Night of the Hunter.

  61. 61.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 2:06 am

    @Botsplainer:

    Lots of eyefucking, amigo. I can’t ignore that.

    Like I said, killer smile. Makes me melt.

    Wait for some biker bullies to come into the bar and harass her, then step up and take them all down one by one, finishing with a one liner to the babe like “You want some?”

  62. 62.

    SoupCatcher

    October 25, 2015 at 2:07 am

    @Steeplejack:

    Here ya go.

  63. 63.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 2:09 am

    @Steeplejack:

    Yeah, I had to stop and do a Google search to see if I could find a picture of the “Luv” and “Hāt” tattoos that Sideshow Bob had on his (cartoon) fingers, approximating the “Love” and “Hate” that Robert Mitchum had in The Night of the Hunter.

    It’s a great Simpson’s episode, but kinda weird when you think about it.

    And then it’s pretty much a note for note summary of DeNiro’s Cape Fear, except with more rakes. Which in turn was a remake of the earlier movie from Black and White times.

    Die, Bart, Die.

  64. 64.

    Steeplejack

    October 25, 2015 at 2:11 am

    @Botsplainer:

    Jesus Christ, do you not see how this is a microcosm of your dead marriage?! The bartender probably likes you well enough, but she is mostly interested in extracting your sweet gringo dollars, as per her job description.

  65. 65.

    Steeplejack

    October 25, 2015 at 2:13 am

    @SoupCatcher:

    Cool. Didn’t look for a GIF.

  66. 66.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 2:16 am

    @Steeplejack:

    Jesus Christ, do you not see how this is a microcosm of your dead marriage?! The bartender probably likes you well enough, but she is mostly interested in extracting your sweet gringo dollars, as per her job description.

    Yeah, when you put it this way. But then, perhaps this is part of the moving on process – hit on Mexican bartendresses (spend hundreds).

  67. 67.

    David Koch

    October 25, 2015 at 2:18 am

    The sharks are out for Hillary

  68. 68.

    craigie

    October 25, 2015 at 2:19 am

    I don’t know anyone who wants to reinvest now.

    I love the accidental honesty of that word choice.

  69. 69.

    Botsplainer

    October 25, 2015 at 2:22 am

    @redshirt:

    Only way that works at this point is that they wear out their fists on my totally numb face before I get a second wind from the mammoth drunk and totally kick their asses.

    BTW, prick bar manager prevailed. I was angling to be there for total close and to walk her out, but nooooooo…,

  70. 70.

    Botsplainer

    October 25, 2015 at 2:23 am

    Jesus, I could get a whole other steak…

  71. 71.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 2:28 am

    @Botsplainer:

    Jesus, I could get a whole other steak…

    There’s other bars, right?

  72. 72.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 2:29 am

    @Botsplainer:

    Only way that works at this point is that they wear out their fists on my totally numb face before I get a second wind from the mammoth drunk and totally kick their asses.

    Is this your super power? Absorption Man?

  73. 73.

    Steeplejack

    October 25, 2015 at 2:32 am

    @redshirt:

    Are you like a little Jon Lovitz devil character, complete with pointy tail, who pops up on someone’s shoulder and urges them to do self-destructive stuff? Rhetorical question.

  74. 74.

    gf120581

    October 25, 2015 at 2:34 am

    I am reluctant to count JEB! as finished, given what a complete clusterfuck it is on the GOP side and the resources he still has, but if he is going to do what McCain did in 2007/08, he has got to get his ass in gear. McCain clearly wanted it and was willing to do the effort. JEB! has given no sign of that. He’s not just been utterly incompetent, he’s been a lackluster and listless campaigner. No energy at all. You have to have the drive to be President and he doesn’t seem to have it.

    You know he had a bad week when arguably the high point for him was him calling the new Supergirl “hot.”

  75. 75.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 2:35 am

    @Steeplejack: Yeah, that’s the ticket. Satan Morningstar….

  76. 76.

    sharl

    October 25, 2015 at 2:36 am

    @Botsplainer: I’ve enjoyed your posting this evening, but now a bit worried about you. You may have already said, but do you have some diving planned for tomorrow? I would think being too hung over, and maybe banged up in a fight to boot, would reduce some of the day-after fun.

  77. 77.

    Brother Dingaling

    October 25, 2015 at 2:44 am

    Lord help me, I want Trump to get the nomination soooooo bad.

  78. 78.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 2:50 am

    @Brother Dingaling:

    Lord help me, I want Trump to get the nomination soooooo bad.

    Same.

    And I hope Hillary wants the same, and is preparing for it.

    Seriously, right now, prepare for odd accusations and outright lies and boisterous BS – how will you respond? Practice. Trump will not be like any other politician of the last 100 years. Get ready for that – if Hillary is, it should be an easy victory with YUUUGE coattails. If she fails, then we’re all doomed.

  79. 79.

    Frankensteinbeck

    October 25, 2015 at 2:59 am

    @amk:

    Proof – boner getting shitcanned and yet the crazy caucus calling the shots still.

    If anything, your proof shows the opposite. If Boehner were leaving of anything except his own free will, there wouldn’t be discussions of if he’ll have to stay on extra time because it’s so hard to replace him. There is no more ‘anti-establishment sentiment’ than there is in every election. Trump and Carson have offered the base straight up hard racist rhetoric, and they said ‘Fuck dogwhistles, give us some more of that.’

    And Jeb:( is a shitty, shitty campaigner. I’m actually no longer guaranteeing he’s out, because the race is so fucked up I can’t predict anything, anymore. If it were a conventional race against other establishment candidates like Rubio, he’d be dead, but they’re all competing with Trump and Carson.

  80. 80.

    dogwood

    October 25, 2015 at 2:59 am

    @gf120581:
    What’s weird about Jeb is that he seems so unprepared. I get why guys like Walker and Huntsman get blindsided by the process. They’ve got rich backers and lots people urging them to run and they get on the big stage and find out it’s really hard. But a Bush has been on the ballot in 6 of the last nine presidential elections. Jeb should have known how difficult this is. There’s no excuse for him expecting this to be easy. You don’t have to be a great campaigner to win a nomination or even the presidency for that matter. In my adult life I’ve only seen 3 really great presidential campaigners and a couple more who were decent.

  81. 81.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    October 25, 2015 at 3:01 am

    @redshirt:

    If she fails, then we’re all doomed.

    Some of us could possibly emigrate to Puerto Sueño and work in Botsplainer’s dive shop/BnB/cantina that he will be running with his adolescent wife, Allie.

  82. 82.

    Botsplainer

    October 25, 2015 at 3:02 am

    @sharl:

    I wish I was diving in the am; I’d happily be asleep.

    No, outbound flight. I haven’t packed. My stuff is hopeful drying outside my room an not pilfered…

  83. 83.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 3:05 am

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    Some of us could possibly emigrate to Puerto Sueño and work in Botsplainer’s dive shop/BnB/cantina that he will be running with his adolescent wife, Allie.

    Sounds pretty nice.
    I’m pretty slick so I’ll handle the business side of things, OK?

  84. 84.

    Botsplainer

    October 25, 2015 at 3:09 am

    Policia at my hotel

  85. 85.

    sharl

    October 25, 2015 at 3:12 am

    @Botsplainer: Well shit. I forgot about your recent local weather situation.
    Maybe call upon Botsplainer the Iceman Lawyer for some sage behavioral advice; just don’t forget to pay him (shift some money from one pocket to the other, or something…).
    Take care!

  86. 86.

    Pie Happens (opiejeanne)

    October 25, 2015 at 3:13 am

    @Brother Dingaling: Careful what you wish for; you just might get it.

  87. 87.

    Pie Happens (opiejeanne)

    October 25, 2015 at 3:16 am

    @Botsplainer: Are the Policia also at your room?

  88. 88.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 3:16 am

    @Botsplainer: At least you’re back at your hotel!

  89. 89.

    Botsplainer

    October 25, 2015 at 3:18 am

    They roared off. Fuck if I know.@Steeplejack (phone):

    Hey, she’s not adolescent. She’s 22.

    Big difference.

    I could kill the jerk that blew up the previously scheduled date by blowing off a shift.

    Of course, do I still even know how to act on a regular date?

  90. 90.

    Keith P.

    October 25, 2015 at 3:19 am

    I’m thinking of taking a bunch of JetBlue flights this weekend in the off chance that I get seated next to Jeb!.
    I bet I could score a bunch of free “!. The President” bumper stickers.

  91. 91.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 3:19 am

    @Botsplainer: Killing someone in Mexico is only 3000 pesos.

  92. 92.

    Botsplainer

    October 25, 2015 at 3:20 am

    @redshirt:

    In my drunken defense, there’s not much “finding”

  93. 93.

    redshirt

    October 25, 2015 at 3:23 am

    @Botsplainer: So it was the hotel bar?

  94. 94.

    David Koch

    October 25, 2015 at 3:28 am

    PublicPolicyPolling ‏@ppppolls 20h20 hours ago

    Hillary right around 70% on the first night of our North Carolina poll. Was at 55% on our last Biden-less poll

    55 retweets 41 favorites

  95. 95.

    mdblanche

    October 25, 2015 at 3:32 am

    @Anne Laurie:

    Only thing I’m absolutely sure of: The GOP primaries are going to get even weirder than us (mostly) sane people ever imagined!

    The Republican universe is not only queerer than we suppose, it is queerer than we can suppose.

    @redshirt:

    Die, Bart, Die.

    No one who speaks German could be an evil man.

  96. 96.

    dogwood

    October 25, 2015 at 3:35 am

    @Keith P.:
    I’m not taking so much satisfaction at Jeb’s demise as most of the folks here. I assume if he drops out his support will go to Rubio and I’d rather run against Jeb. The press doesn’t seem as enamored with Jeb. They like new and different and another Bush presidency won’t be so exciting to them. In Hillary vs the young guy, she’ll struggle more than she would against Jeb.

  97. 97.

    jl

    October 25, 2015 at 3:36 am

    People like Jeb? and Rubio and Kasich are smart enough to know that the GOP party line is BS. I think Jeb?’s crack up is a sign that it is driving them mad.

    Probably make a good comedy-horror movie someday. Who will crack next?
    Sometimes Kasich looks like he is ready to snap like a dry twig. Some say he is just a cranky old coot, but I dunno. I think signs of something deeper amiss.

    Edit: Of course, lunatics like Trump, Carson and Fiorina and Cruz won’t crack. They are in their element. And Huck smells a paycheck, so it’s like an improv $ contest for him.

  98. 98.

    Citizen Alan

    October 25, 2015 at 3:48 am

    @Belafon:

    The Satan worshippers are doing things like defending a woman’s right to an abortion and protecting the first amendment.

    Those are the OFFICIAL Satan worshipers. He was referring to the people who pretend to worship Christ but do the exact opposite of everything he ever said.

  99. 99.

    Citizen Alan

    October 25, 2015 at 3:50 am

    @Mike J:

    Katy Perry was a Christian pop singer.

    Was she? That seems astonishing for someone who first entered public consciousness (as best I recall) for “I Kissed A Girl (and I Liked It).”

  100. 100.

    sm*t cl*de

    October 25, 2015 at 3:55 am

    George W. Bush will headline a fundraiser for Jeb Bush in Georgetown (Washington, DC) on Oct. 29 […] Jeb Bush will not attend the fund-raiser…

    A fundraiser where the main attraction is the absence of the candidate, and the presence of GW instead. OK.
    First prize in the raffle: Dinner not with Jeb Bush.

  101. 101.

    Amir Khalid

    October 25, 2015 at 3:55 am

    @Citizen Alan:
    She started out in Christian music under her real name Katy Hudson (you can see why she had to change it) before her mainstream pop breakthrough.

  102. 102.

    sharl

    October 25, 2015 at 3:59 am

    @Citizen Alan: Not that I know much about popular culture stuff, but for some reason I did remember that about Katy Perry’s early years.

    Katheryn Elizabeth “Katy” Hudson (born October 25, 1984), better known by her stage name Katy Perry, is an American singer, songwriter, and actress. After singing in church during her childhood, she pursued a career in gospel music as a teenager. Perry signed with Red Hill Records and released her debut studio album Katy Hudson in 2001, which was commercially unsuccessful. She moved to Los Angeles the following year to venture into secular music after Red Hill ceased operations.

    Sounds like her childhood might have been, um, interesting:

    Growing up, Perry and her siblings were not allowed to eat Lucky Charms as the term “luck” reminded their mother of Lucifer, and had to call deviled eggs “angeled eggs”.

    All that’s from her Wikipedia page; I didn’t check the primary references, so caveat lector and all that.

    ETA: Ha, Amir done beat me to it.

  103. 103.

    Elizabelle

    October 25, 2015 at 4:05 am

    @sharl: Hey, it’s Katy Perry’s birthday.

    Happy birthday, shark girl and Hillary supporter.

  104. 104.

    dogwood

    October 25, 2015 at 4:06 am

    @jl:
    I don’t feel sorry for the republicans but I understand their frustration. How do you run against solid front runners in your party who aren’t even running real presidential campaigns? Carson is a low energy sleepy eyed kook who’s off selling books right now, yet gaining ground in Iowa. Trump is running a traveling, policy-free, insult reality show. I have no idea how you combat that.

  105. 105.

    Suzanne

    October 25, 2015 at 4:13 am

    @redshirt: It is certainly part of the moving on process. Get laid often and well. Puts that person in the rear view like nothing else.

  106. 106.

    sharl

    October 25, 2015 at 4:13 am

    @Elizabelle: Zoiks, I totally missed that!

  107. 107.

    dogwood

    October 25, 2015 at 4:17 am

    @Elizabelle:
    Katy Perry’s a good democrat. Supported Obama as well. If I were the Clinton campaign for one of their next big rallies I’d try to get Gwen Steffani to come on and do “Just a Girl”.

  108. 108.

    ruemara

    October 25, 2015 at 4:23 am

    Well. That’s done. 18 pages in 2 days with hour long lunches & dinners, no longer than 9 working hours tops. We finished nearly every scene and I must say the actors killed it. I hope the story & the director was worth everyone’s effort, but for now, I can bask in the glow of done. I finally made my first film.

  109. 109.

    Elizabelle

    October 25, 2015 at 4:27 am

    @ruemara: Frabulous.

    Will we get to see it? Is it coming to a blog near us?

  110. 110.

    sm*t cl*de

    October 25, 2015 at 4:28 am

    cutting staff and costs was an example of good leadership…
    “That’s what leaders do,” [Bush] said

    Yep, time to remind Americans that they need another CEO President, i.e. someone with experience at acquiring companies, sacking their staff and appropriating their assets. Evidently Carly Fiorina’s campaign has been so successful that Bush is keen to steal the recurring themes of her rhetoric.

    Mine own theory is that one of Bush’s advisors told him to “start cutting” to increase his appeal to the Emo Kid demographic, and he misunderstood.

  111. 111.

    SWMBO

    October 25, 2015 at 4:28 am

    @ruemara: Congrats! I hope it succeeds beyond your wildest dreams!

  112. 112.

    Amir Khalid

    October 25, 2015 at 4:29 am

    @sm*t cl*de:
    Dinner with Jeb is second prize.

  113. 113.

    David Koch

    October 25, 2015 at 4:32 am

    @sharl: She said when Obama invited her to the inauguration her mother asked if she could come, but she said no, because her mom was a republican.

    Ha! That’s just fun. She took her boy-toy, instead.

  114. 114.

    mdblanche

    October 25, 2015 at 4:40 am

    @Amir Khalid: Third prize is a weekend with Jeb.

  115. 115.

    Chris T.

    October 25, 2015 at 4:41 am

    I’m thinking at this point that the exclamation point is clearly wrong, but “Jeb?” doesn’t work so well either because by now the question’s been answered: Jeb0 (that’s Jeb-Zero, not Jeb-Oh).

  116. 116.

    Elizabelle

    October 25, 2015 at 4:45 am

    @dogwood:
    @David Koch:

    I think that’s so cool that Katy Perry was raised in an evangelical household and is a good Democrat. We have some neighbors like that. The dad is a minister, and left his congregation because they were saying such ugly conservative nasty things to the teenage daughters. The religion is just a tribal affiliation for his former flock, I guess.

    Also, I’m now deeply interested in Katy’s mother. How amusing, to raise your kids on “angeled” eggs and no Lucky Charms o’ the Devil, and have your daughter turn out racing around barely clothed before thousands, with a brassiere that shoots — I forget what, but it was exciting.

    Would love to hear a tell all by someone in touch with the mom.

    Katy’s got a great voice. She was married to Russell Brand; don’t see him married to an idiot.

  117. 117.

    Elizabelle

    October 25, 2015 at 4:47 am

    Are people up early or late? I had to get up to attend to the first day of the estate sale; still have lots of stuff to do. Gag. Finished 2 cups of coffee, so check you later.

  118. 118.

    ruemara

    October 25, 2015 at 4:56 am

    @Elizabelle: We need a break before either myself or my assistant editor can even think about touching the footage. But when it is all up and good in a month or so, yes, I will definitely share the link.

  119. 119.

    dogwood

    October 25, 2015 at 4:57 am

    @David Koch:
    You really are enamored with Katy Perry.
    Since Hillary has access to most of the a list entertainers this time, I hope she lets herself have some fun. On the democratic side the angry revolutionaries all belong to Bernie, so there’s no point in trying to out-shout him. If and when she get to the general, her opponent will be stoking the fires of anger, resentment and downright racism. So just needs to mock them effectively and enjoy herself. She doesn’t need to prove that she’s smart, policy-savvy and competent. People accept that about her. She just needs to campaign without fear and she’ll do just fine.

  120. 120.

    David Koch

    October 25, 2015 at 5:10 am

    @dogwood: Oh yes, I’ve had a crush on her for years. been to her concert which is a lot of fun.

  121. 121.

    dogwood

    October 25, 2015 at 5:26 am

    @David Koch:
    Good for you. I’m an old lady who has a soft spot for pop music. I think it stems from the fact that I taught high school for 35 years and alway keep my car radio on the local pop station when I was driving around town. The last 10 years I taught we had acces to music online and I bought some decent speakers for my classroom. I played a piece of music every period as the students entered and they loved it. I played all kinds of music, but they were always happy when I played something current. However, the real fun came when I’d dig up a song that was popular when they were in elementary school. It’s a hoot to watch teenagers engage in nostalgia.

  122. 122.

    WereBear

    October 25, 2015 at 5:29 am

    @dogwood: Sounds like you were a hit with that crowd, which is quite the accomplishment.

  123. 123.

    mclaren

    October 25, 2015 at 5:32 am

    @Punchy:

    Jeb’s done. Dee you en. No amount of crooked scratch is going to lift his standing above the 7%. Why the fuck must we continue to “discuss” this Cain-esque also-ran?

    Because…

    Unlimited. Amounts. Of corporate cash.

    Because Brinks. Trucks. Backing up!

  124. 124.

    mclaren

    October 25, 2015 at 5:34 am

    @sm*t cl*de:

    First prize in the raffle: Dinner not with Jeb Bush.

    I thought first prize was not to be disemboweled by Barbara Bush, the Shelob of Kennebunkport.

    When Barbara Bush attends a fundraising dinner, the doors get locked…and only she comes out alive.

  125. 125.

    Thoughtcrime

    October 25, 2015 at 5:37 am

    @redshirt:

    “Alright, start screaming” is probably more likely:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_DIes5480Y

  126. 126.

    mclaren

    October 25, 2015 at 5:40 am

    @dogwood:

    I’m not taking so much satisfaction at Jeb’s demise as most of the folks here. I assume if he drops out his support will go to Rubio and I’d rather run against Jeb.

    I’m taking great satisfaction in Jeb Bush’s death spiral. The rest of the Republican candidates are a chorus of small shrill eunuchs. Hillary will have to use a magnifying glass to see them when she steps on them and squashes ’em like bugs.

  127. 127.

    NotMax

    October 25, 2015 at 5:49 am

    *Playing a violin so small can only be viewed with an electron microscope.*

  128. 128.

    Elizabelle

    October 25, 2015 at 5:51 am

    @mclaren: I just worry that one of the eunuchs will get proclaimed “a pragmatic moderate we can work with.” The MSM will carry the Republicans’ water until and unless they just cannot.

    Recent example: Capitol Hill blowing up after Boehner announced his retirement. No adults in the room; they’re trying to patch their way through with Paul Ryan.

    The media was stunned. They had nowhere to hide with their “both sides” bullshit.

  129. 129.

    dogwood

    October 25, 2015 at 6:20 am

    @Elizabelle:
    People who think Rubio would be easier to beat than Jeb are nuts. Americans know plenty about the Bushes. They can’t reinvent themselves. Most Americans don’t know jack shit about Rubio and I’d bet my house that the lazy media will fall into the narrative that he’s the young, Latino, new face of the Republican Party. Not saying that she can’t beat him, but it’ll be much harder. Some people hate the Bushes a lot more than they care about winning the White House.
    I also think Ryan as Speaker poses a lot a problems for the democrats. The press has always painted him as some super smart policy wonk. When he decides to default on the debt and shut down the government, it will be seen as legitimate by the beltway media. If we’re going down that rathole I’d just as soon go down with a freedom caucus speaker who can’t be sold as some sort of reasonable moderate.

  130. 130.

    Elizabelle

    October 25, 2015 at 6:28 am

    @dogwood: Yeah. It’s troubling. Would be nice if we had a media that cared more about accuracy and good government than money.

    But we don’t.

    And politics has devolved into team sports.

  131. 131.

    Gimlet

    October 25, 2015 at 6:34 am

    There is so much material for schadenfreude in that NYTs article on the Bushes.

    This quote from Sununu is naively insightful.

    “I have no feeling for the electorate anymore,” said John H. Sununu, the former New Hampshire governor who helped the elder Mr. Bush win the 1988 primary there and went on to serve as his White House chief of staff. “It is not responding the way it used to. Their priorities are so different that if I tried to analyze it I’d be making it up.”

    Mr. Sununu, like many establishment-aligned Republicans, is especially mystified by Mr. Trump’s appeal. “He supports single-payer federal health care and he loves eminent domain, and the Tea Party hates both of those things,” he said. “So explain to me how people are voting on issues.”

  132. 132.

    F

    October 25, 2015 at 6:48 am

    @dogwood: I agree, the MSM would crawl naked over broken glass to elect Rubio over Hillary.

  133. 133.

    Elizabelle

    October 25, 2015 at 7:00 am

    @Gimlet: Here’s the link to Gimlet’s article, from the NY Times yesterday. http://nyti.ms/1kCXXk2

    Gives me an opportunity to paste in the top reader comment, liked by 977 readers so far. Take it away, reader AR from Virginia. (My fave part is “The Bushes are like silk stockings filled with mud.” Commenter Jim, Foolish Literalist informs that Napoleon slung something like that at Talleyrand, it was not a new slur then, and something worse than mud filled the silk.)

    reader AR’s comment: It is so nauseating, on so many levels, to read this kind of tripe about the Bush family. John Sununu, a truly nasty man who declared on TV that Barack Obama “should learn to be an American,” is puzzled by the current GOP electorate? George H.W. Bush, the father of a hawkish non-participant in the Vietnam War (George W. Bush) who happily had his dirty operatives smear the war record of opponent John Kerry in 2004, can’t understand how voters support Trump after he said negative things about John McCain? How about trying to understand how on earth anybody could vote for your own son over Kerry in 2004 after the Swift Boat attacks?

    George H.W. Bush, I am sorry to say, is a pioneer among New England Yankee WASPs who decided to pander to the worst instincts of voters in ex-Confederate states like Texas and Florida. He hired junkyard dog of the first order Lee Atwater to run his despicable 1988 campaign for president. His two sons followed in his footsteps, with Jeb earlier this year declaring to a bunch of people in South Carolina that he wouldn’t give “free stuff” to blacks. Never mind the sheer ludicrousness of a WASP child of privilege who was born with “free stuff” making a comment like this about the descendants of slaves.

    The Bushes are like silk stockings filled with mud, some of the nastiest campaigners out there. Their demise in politics can’t come soon enough, and that demise should be interpreted as a victory for all non-elite, non-wealthy Americans.

  134. 134.

    Amir Khalid

    October 25, 2015 at 7:08 am

    @dogwood:
    Back in 2012 I coined a phrase about Paul Ryan that, alas, has not gained currency beyond Balloon Juice: I called his supposed expertise “a cargo-cult approximation of economic wonkery”.

  135. 135.

    Cervantes

    October 25, 2015 at 7:12 am

    @NotMax:

    What’s on the play-list?

  136. 136.

    Cervantes

    October 25, 2015 at 7:18 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    Reminds me of something Richard Feynman said.

    Anyhow, I think cargo cults are somewhat more innocent than Ryan’s prostitution is.

  137. 137.

    Cervantes

    October 25, 2015 at 7:28 am

    @Elizabelle:

    Thanks.

    “Reader AR” is eloquent — although I’m not sure about the comparison to silk stockings.

  138. 138.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    October 25, 2015 at 7:40 am

    @Citizen Alan:

    She was in Christian pop for about 10 minutes (and one album) as a teenager back in 2001.

  139. 139.

    Applejinx

    October 25, 2015 at 7:42 am

    @David Koch: What’s a J/J dinner? *google* oh.

    Huh. Better now than in the voting booth, eh? I listened to a bit of what Hil said at this dinner, the Des Moines Register had some video. There’s a lot to like and endorse there, but Reagan said all the same stuff in much the same way. Why endorse Trump’s assertion that America is great and just needs to be fair and just? From where I’m standing that’s a pretty major gaffe, America is valiantly trying to avoid being shit.

    It’s GOOD to avoid being shit, but we have to fucking get real and I would have walked out too. Not in a childish way, but as a calculated strategic move that has ALWAYS BEEN THE POINT of the Bernie candidacy.

    Now is not the time to convert over to a Hilbot. ‘Never’ is the time for that. Hil gets my vote if she’s able to wrest power away from the American people using all the old tricks, which is what I see happening, because it’d be her or a Republican maniac and that’s no choice at all.

    But you are a fool to not keep constant pressure on her, now and later and after she’s elected should that be the best answer we have, because that’s how governance WORKS. I believe I trust her to address gender inequality issues, which is well worth doing (mind you, verify even that!) but NONE of these people should be left to their own devices.

    The best possible situation might be for Hillary to win, running scared, sure she’s going to need the Sanders demographic, convinced they’re a permanent part of the electorate and that they’re so numerous the hall empties when they walk out. She has to keep seeing this or she’ll take ’em for granted, and their/our whole EXISTENCE from the start has been to direct the Democratic party to deal with issues that can’t be avoided any longer. Crisis level, fundamental issues with American democracy itself.

    This is no time to take the pressure away. This is power politics. The difference between us and the Teahadi caucus is we can be smart enough to pull the right lever, smart enough to still respect the good things about Hillary while keeping the pressure on. Think of it as a mark of respect. Hil can take the pressure. It’s like the army mule and the two-by-four. She’d be a fantastic, great President, we just have to get and hold her attention.

    I hope attention is being paid, otherwise she can watch the Obama thing play out again and have another run as Secretary of State maybe. This is not for HER benefit or to disgrace HER personally. We just need more than dynastic reality-show politics, no matter how good she and Bill are at that. (I freakin’ LOVE Bill’s quip about breaking the sexist rules about who can be First Spouse ;) that’s really cute!)

  140. 140.

    Gimlet

    October 25, 2015 at 7:49 am

    @Applejinx:

    Along this line of thought, I’ve speculated at times of the need for coalitions or blocs of voters organized around policy positions that “pledge” their votes for the candidate in primary or general elections if they recognize and appeal to the bloc for their support.

  141. 141.

    cokane

    October 25, 2015 at 7:55 am

    @dogwood: Rubio is — without a doubt — their most formidable candidate in a general election.

    I still think odds are solid Sanders or Clinton would win, but, say there’s an economic downturn or terrorist attack preceding the election… then someone like Rubio wins. The other jokers would still lose, imo.

  142. 142.

    Cervantes

    October 25, 2015 at 8:04 am

    @Applejinx:

    It’s GOOD to avoid being shit

    I see you’re a pro at managing the old expectations game!

  143. 143.

    Applejinx

    October 25, 2015 at 8:22 am

    @Cervantes: I’m watching what the House of Representatives are doing.

    *mic drop*

    seriously, though, @dogwood speaks for me. Ryan poses serious problems not because he’s a real wonk, but because he’s a complete fake leading complete fakes. I’ve said before, I’m happier with him refusing to take the Speaker job and holding out for a Presidential run (he managed to run as Veep, remember? Traditionally that meant he’d get to run for the top spot at some point, and he’s done the P90X to qualify for the flightsuit.

    If Ryan is accepting the job as Speaker it means he’s doubling down on the con game. I don’t picture this guy allowing himself to be painted as a ‘cuckservative’, what could he possibly gain? He doesn’t HAVE legitimate credentials or proposals, ever, so you can’t appeal to them. His only strategy is to overthrow what governance even means: default, gridlock, siding with the Teahadis and crippling the Republican power structure. For a change, this is really BAD news for John McCain.

    Also, he gets to be President if both the President and Veep die. Pretty sure that’s not off the table with these people: I’ve outlined the shaky line of reasoning much like the way rightwing noise radio instigates terrorists: if they can goad some loose cannon (out of or IN Congress: we’ve not yet seen a Congressman yell ‘you lie!’ with a bullet from a concealed weapon, or attempt it) then these are the sort of people who’d cheerfully say, oh sorry for that unrelated person we’re not responsible in any way for, and we win.

    So I’m not thrilled about a total calculating fake egomaniac becoming Speaker, nor am I very soothed that he’s crap and a fake. The trouble is, we know this, and he knows this. Therefore you have to ask what his scheme is, since he’s not the kind of dumb who believes his own con game.

  144. 144.

    DLew On Roids

    October 25, 2015 at 8:36 am

    Bushes gonna be Bushes. All tactics, no strategy. Alienate generations of black voters? F it, we need to scare white people, run the Willie Horton ad. Sacrifice the GOP’s traditional brand as the fiscally responsible, national security party? F it, my donors want a tax cut and I won’t win in ’04 if we don’t invade Iraq. Multiple billionaire-backed opponents in the primary? F it, Daddy will make some calls. Fire up the giant campaign infrastructure.

  145. 145.

    the Conster

    October 25, 2015 at 8:46 am

    LOL@JEB. He more than anyone should know everything his brother touches turns to shit, and now he gets to experience what it feels like. He could raise so much money by live streaming his convo with Bar and Poppy. I’d pay to watch that.

  146. 146.

    Amir Khalid

    October 25, 2015 at 8:55 am

    @Cervantes:
    Oh yes, Paul Ryan knows perfectly well his economics isn’t real. He’s a disingenuous little shit.

  147. 147.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 8:55 am

    @rikyrah: And to think, Nixon’s operatives got a candidate disqualified by saying he supposedly shed a single tear during a press conference on a wet day.

  148. 148.

    Cervantes

    October 25, 2015 at 8:55 am

    @the Conster:

    He could raise so much money by live streaming his convo with Bar and Poppy. I’d pay to watch that.

    !

    On the other hand, if he were to let it all hang out like that, would he still have a campaign left to rescue?

  149. 149.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 8:57 am

    @David Koch: Reasonable people can disagree. They’re telling us that they aren’t reasonable.

    GOOD for single issue activism.

    BAD during party primary season.

  150. 150.

    Cervantes

    October 25, 2015 at 8:59 am

    @Gimlet:

    Sounds interesting.

    How different would that be, in practice, from PACs?

  151. 151.

    Frankensteinbeck

    October 25, 2015 at 9:01 am

    @Applejinx:

    since he’s not the kind of dumb who believes his own con game.

    Assumes facts not in evidence. He’s a lifelong fan of Ayn Rand. I see no reason to think he doesn’t truly believe that tax cuts and gutting the safety net won’t create a magical utopia. That’s what worries me. If he’s just a shill, he has no reason to continue Boehner’s insane, unprecedented gridlock strategy. Hell, it’s not like the Teabaggers can overthrow him. Look at how hard it was to get anyone elected, period.

    @DLew On Roids:

    I won’t win in ’04 if we don’t invade Iraq.

    Minor quibble that doesn’t affect your main point: Bush and Cheney lusted for a war with Iraq from day one. They manipulated terrorism fears for the reelection, but invading Iraq was a goal, not a method. Bush had fantasies of going down in history as a Great President, and Cheney had neocon fantasies of the Middle East bowing down eagerly in the face of American power, and their insane delusions were why they did such a half-assed, disastrous job of absolutely everything.

  152. 152.

    Cervantes

    October 25, 2015 at 9:06 am

    @Applejinx:

    Now is not the time to convert over to a Hilbot.

    Or any kind of “bot.”

    Self-evident, one would think.

  153. 153.

    Jeffro

    October 25, 2015 at 9:14 am

    @redshirt: which was his main reason for getting in, methinks

  154. 154.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 9:15 am

    @Steeplejack: lol, his nym IS redshirt

    and not the football meaning

  155. 155.

    Chris

    October 25, 2015 at 9:20 am

    @Belafon:

    Are Satanists even a thing in real life? To the extent that they were anything other than Christian fantaszing, I always thought it was just people engaging in teenage rebellion, or the adult version of that in re sticking up a middle finger to society (maaann). Possibly obnoxious, but never actually harmful.

  156. 156.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 25, 2015 at 9:20 am

    Poor Jeb! When all your life, you’ve gotten everything to which you felt entitled, it must be awful to actually have to work hard to get something that you felt was yours for the taking (and the big bucks). Even if he’s able to eke through and win the Republican nomination, he’ll never be President of these United States. His brother messed that up for him and anyone with the last name Bush.

    @rikyrah: Jeb! is silly and ridiculous so him answering a serious question with “blah blah blah” is quite apt.

  157. 157.

    Cervantes

    October 25, 2015 at 9:24 am

    @Applejinx:

    Your portrait of Ryan is interesting. I wonder about this part:

    His only strategy is to overthrow what governance even means: default, gridlock, siding with the Teahadis and crippling the Republican power structure.

    I’m not sure about those last two bits.

    How does he side with, or differ from, “the Teahadis”?

    As for “crippling the Republican power structure,” he may achieve it but I’m not sure that’s his intention. He works the lobbyists and they work him. To the extent he’s a true-believer Objectivist, it only makes him that much easier to manipulate. What he offers is control of the power structure. What the lobbyists give in return is obvious.

  158. 158.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 25, 2015 at 9:25 am

    @Gimlet: Sununu is confused about the electorate who voted twice for the lazy Black man, I guess. http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/10/26/1094491/john-sununus-history-of-racial-remarks-about-obama/

  159. 159.

    NotMax

    October 25, 2015 at 9:27 am

    @Cervantes

    Pore Jud Jeb Is Daid.

  160. 160.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 9:31 am

    @ruemara: woohoo!!

  161. 161.

    Gimlet

    October 25, 2015 at 9:33 am

    @Cervantes:

    Obviously it’s not a reality, but primarily votes.

    Nothing to say it can’t also provide money and organizational help, but the bloc’s endorsement means votes.

  162. 162.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 9:35 am

    @Elizabelle: I met a guy in the union who was still trying to be a conservative minister but poured his heart out on a car ride: he had been invited to a town to be one of two ministers at this very fundy congregation. Someone in the congregation raped his child and the congregation predictably called her (the victim) a jezebel/harlot/etc. In the end, he and his family couldn’t take the bullying any longer and they had to leave.

  163. 163.

    different-church-lady

    October 25, 2015 at 9:36 am

    @David Koch:

    How can you expect people to see your point of view when you’re poking them in the eye.

    Once you’ve blinded them, they don’t need to see anymore — they can just believe what you tell them.

    Bernie deserves so much better than the fans he has.

  164. 164.

    Gimlet

    October 25, 2015 at 9:37 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    He apparently doesn’t understand the GOP membership requirement of voting against your own interests, cognitive dissonance, denial, antisocial “tuff-guy” policies, and magical thinking.

  165. 165.

    different-church-lady

    October 25, 2015 at 9:41 am

    @redshirt: I suspect he’s not actually a troll so much as he’s a shtick. The parody is too damn obvious. Nobody could possibly be “here for the hunting” at that level.

  166. 166.

    different-church-lady

    October 25, 2015 at 9:45 am

    @srv:

    “I have no feeling for the electorate monster anymore,” said John H. Frankenstein, the former New Hampshire governor who helped the elder Bush win the 1988 primary there and went on to serve as his White House chief of staff. “It is not responding the way it used to. It’s priorities are so different that if I tried to analyze it I’d be making it up.”

    Gee John, what could possibly have lead us to this state of affairs?

  167. 167.

    Mandalay

    October 25, 2015 at 9:45 am

    @David Koch:

    the lovely Katy Perry

    You linked to a photo of a Hillary Clinton supporter who earned $135 million last year waving a placard that said “Fighting for us”.

    Oh the ironing.

  168. 168.

    Capri

    October 25, 2015 at 9:48 am

    @efgoldman: I don’t think this was a foot-in-mouth moment. I’m guessing he was going for being “just like Trump” and saying what he really thinks.

    The media all called Trump’s outbursts horrible gaffes that would sink him, but his supporters can’t get enough. Maybe Jeb now sees this as the path to his come back.

  169. 169.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 9:50 am

    @Chris: Satanists have been a thing for a while, outside of the teenage rebellion outbreaks, but they’re pretty fringey (and of course they have traditionalists and splitters! and so on).

    This one Satanist group in OK (Satanic Temple?) has gotten a lot of earned media lately for opposing attempts to stick 10 commandments and other sectarian crap all over public spaces and buildings, and also for filing suit over the religious freedom to choose (using Scalia’ logic against him). I’m not sure how much they’re just a political organization of atheists using Satanic imagery to fight Christian dominionists on their own turf.

    If you’re into the occult at all you’ve heard of LeVeyan Satanists who are still around and have neo-pagan style rituals and believe in sex magic. Generally they profess atheism but believe their rituals can have profound psychological effects. A bdsm club with a pentacle.

    If you dig on the internet you can definitely find a sort of neo-Nietzschean liturgy about why Satan is a better god to worship than Jesus, and how Satanists are more moral than Christians. If it reads a bit Randian, and appeals likewise to teenagers, that’s no accident.

  170. 170.

    Chris

    October 25, 2015 at 9:51 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Minor quibble that doesn’t affect your main point: Bush and Cheney lusted for a war with Iraq from day one. They manipulated terrorism fears for the reelection, but invading Iraq was a goal, not a method. Bush had fantasies of going down in history as a Great President, and Cheney had neocon fantasies of the Middle East bowing down eagerly in the face of American power, and their insane delusions were why they did such a half-assed, disastrous job of absolutely everything.

    From what I remember, Bush’s original plan to go down in history as a Great President wasn’t Middle East centric – it was to restart the Cold War. There was all this talk of bringing back Reagan-era SDI and the next generation of “bunker buster” nuclear weapons, and treating Russia and China like “strategic competitors” instead of what that liberal pansy Clinton had called them, “strategic partners.” Then 9/11 reshuffled all these priorities.

  171. 171.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 9:53 am

    @Mandalay: lol, women’s rights aren’t under severe threat this year, that’s just an MSM myth, amirite? turn off the tv and read more marxist theory.

  172. 172.

    Bobby Thomson

    October 25, 2015 at 9:57 am

    @Botsplainer: when your harassment gets so bad she has to signal her boss to get involved, you’ve had enough.

  173. 173.

    Kropadope

    October 25, 2015 at 9:58 am

    @different-church-lady:

    Bernie deserves so much better than the fans he has.

    Man, this narrative has serious legs on BJ. One could make a killing selling broad brushes to paint with.

  174. 174.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 25, 2015 at 10:01 am

    @Chris: Modern “Satanists” are weird people. The ones who make the news these days are hilarious trolls, mostly trolling in a good cause.

  175. 175.

    Cervantes

    October 25, 2015 at 10:02 am

    @Kropadope:

    It’s pathetic, not to say bizarrely desperate.

    Ignore it.

  176. 176.

    different-church-lady

    October 25, 2015 at 10:02 am

    @Kropadope: I could have broken it down to “his most rabid, deluded internet ranting fans” but then the barn would take all day to get painted.

    And I’m not sure the attendees who staged the walkout fit that description anyway. But he deserves better than a lot of the people who advocate for him that I’ve seen.

    I could have said the same thing about Hillary eight years ago, but I’m not sure she did deserve better.

  177. 177.

    WaterGirl

    October 25, 2015 at 10:07 am

    @ruemara: That is such great news that I had to go off to the thesaurus to find an adjective that is up to the occasion. So excited for you.

    I whittled the choices down to these: awesome cool excellent fabulous fantastic marvelous outstanding terrific tremendous awe-inspiring wonderful.

    Go ruemara!

  178. 178.

    Kropadope

    October 25, 2015 at 10:14 am

    @different-church-lady: @Cervantes: It just seems like some people around these parts are aggressively searching the internet for reasons to be mad at fellow voters they may need on their side in the future Bernie’s supporters, rather than engage what actual supporters here, who can respond and be accountable for themselves, are saying.

    This rude, bullying behavior is being done to sustain a narrative of Bernie’s supporters being rude bullies. (to who’s benefit? Hmmm…)

  179. 179.

    Mandalay

    October 25, 2015 at 10:15 am

    @Kropadope:

    Man, this narrative has serious legs on BJ.

    They just lack the balls and honesty to go after Bernie directly, so they condescendingly smear him by going after his supporters. It’s guilt by association, and if you didn’t want to stick the knife into Bernie you wouldn’t be going out of your way to do it.

    Just drool over how lovely Katy Perry is and you’ll be fine.

  180. 180.

    different-church-lady

    October 25, 2015 at 10:19 am

    @Kropadope: I ain’t searching for jack. It just keeps appearing in front of me, over and over and over again.

  181. 181.

    Kropadope

    October 25, 2015 at 10:19 am

    @different-church-lady: Oh, and to be clear, I don’t necessarily blame you personally. You were responding to a post.

    Oops , looks like I was late to my caveat. You can only respond to the conversation that is being had, not the conversation you might want or wish to have in the future.

  182. 182.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 10:20 am

    @Mandalay: At least Katy Perry took a stand for what she believes in. That’s appealing no matter what your orientation. FTR, I’m too old for Katy Perry. My heart belongs to Mira Furlan.

  183. 183.

    different-church-lady

    October 25, 2015 at 10:23 am

    @Mandalay:

    They just lack the balls and honesty to go after Bernie directly…

    The problem with your theory is that I don’t have any interest in going after Bernie. I like Bernie, I like where he’s coming from, I think he would make a good president, I am considering voting for him, and I would support him without reserve should he become the nominee.

    But none of that means I gotta swallow every bit of deluded BS his supporters shovel into the trough.

  184. 184.

    Bobby Thomson

    October 25, 2015 at 10:24 am

    @Citizen Alan: actually, the Church of Satan was founded on Randian IGMFY principles.

  185. 185.

    Chris

    October 25, 2015 at 10:26 am

    @Another Holocene Human:
    @Matt McIrvin:

    Yes, the trolls and First Amendment challengers I’d heard of, which probably helps me to not take it very seriously. The actual occult Randian principles, not so much.

  186. 186.

    Joe Shabadoo

    October 25, 2015 at 10:26 am

    I hear a lot of people saying Rubio is going to take Bush’s spot and win but I just don’t see it. Rubio just seems like he’s there. I picture the money guys just moving to him because they can’t bare to drop out and give to no one.

  187. 187.

    Kropadope

    October 25, 2015 at 10:27 am

    @different-church-lady:

    But none of that means I gotta swallow every bit of deluded BS his supporters shovel into the trough.

    No one said you have to. But if Hillary is the Democratic nominee, you do need to swallow every bit of deluded BS she and her supporters shovel into the trough, cuz would you rather have the Republicans simply take away the trough?

  188. 188.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 10:30 am

    @Chris: Oh, you can continue to not take LaVeyan Satanists seriously, trust me.

  189. 189.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 10:31 am

    @Joe Shabadoo: I’m with you. Rubio is a lightweight. No, I didn’t expect JEB! to sabotage himself so badly. But this fear of Rubio reminds me of the fear of Walker. Rubio sucks. How is he going to make it through the general with Hilary PAC running 24/7 30 seconds spots about how he totally made up an origin story for his family in his biography, and how he stole money from the Republican Party of Florida, so how can you trust him now?

  190. 190.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 10:34 am

    @Kropadope: All the deluded BS I’ve seen on our side has been from erstwhile Sanders supporters, at least since Sanders announced (well, actually, a few weeks before). On the Hilary side you have the fact that somebody thought it was a great idea to name a PAC “Ready for Hilary”, and also whatever pinheads designed and approved that H-arrow logo.

    Other than that, I have not seen Hilary supporters shitting up threads and acting aggressively in RL over their fucking chosen candidate. 2008, sure. But it’s 2015 now. So, no.

  191. 191.

    Applejinx

    October 25, 2015 at 10:35 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Assumes facts not in evidence. He’s a lifelong fan of Ayn Rand. I see no reason to think he doesn’t truly believe that tax cuts and gutting the safety net won’t create a magical utopia. That’s what worries me. If he’s just a shill, he has no reason to continue Boehner’s insane, unprecedented gridlock strategy.

    I never said he doesn’t believe his utopia. His con game is the bullshit plans and such. Magical thinking, again, seen in a bunch of rightwingers and exploited to the fullest.

    It’s like the austerians and tax cutters. If they have a gut feeling that everything would be wonderful, like the OK corral but with cuddles instead of bullets, with zero government and benevolent corporations and Hank Reardens nobly managing everything, then they will stick to that as a glorious vision of the future.

    And all the practical plans for getting there are pure bullshit, because they don’t feel they need to explain the FREEDUM! and despise anybody who argues with the vision. Therefore, they’ll starve any grannies that get in the way of the vision, and have great patience as they wait for the candy mountains to appear. They just know cutting more taxes will make things right, and that you can strip down government until it’s a couple accountants so long as you bullshit hard enough. Some people just don’t know what’s good for them.

    Honestly, Bernie’s similar. He just so happens to be equally committed at a diametrically opposite pole. He can say screw it, give everybody government jobs financed by deficit spending and the economy will grow faster than the debt so it won’t matter. This is stark heresy to the Grover Norquists and Paul Ryans, but it also happens to be the truth in this situation. Ask Krugman, ask Mark Blyth, look at what’s happened to Greece and Ireland and anybody who’s tried to shrink debt right now by cutting. You cut in expansionary times if you want to trim your debt, you spend as stimulus if your economy’s stagnating.

    There are times when Bernie isn’t the right person for the economic situation, and he’s going to be predictable and committed, just as much as Paul Ryan with his Rand worship. The difference is, the way things currently are it’d take a hell of a lot of Bernie before his answers aren’t helping. And the way things currently are, Ryan’s sincerely held answers (that he’ll lie and bullshit to get in place) will do us huge, huge damage. These guys don’t know how far they’ve already pushed the window, they’re zealots.

    Paul Ryan knows his plans are con games. They are things like budgets for things he thinks should never happen. It’s a big fake because he can’t actually say ‘My budget is this: everybody go home. Market forces will solve this’. He can’t say that because it’s fucking stupid and totally insane, so the plans he makes and the things he proposes ARE intentional lies and bullshit. They’re lies because he has no intention of actually governing, but is self-aware enough to know he has to lie to get his dream enacted.

    So actually, Frankensteinbeck, we agree.

  192. 192.

    different-church-lady

    October 25, 2015 at 10:39 am

    @Kropadope: I ain’t gonna do a search to see if I was even-handed, but PUMAs were every bit as ridiculous then as the worst Bern-feelers are now. And anyone playing the “Hillary is Inevitable” tune today is insufferable. The “unelectable” taunt irritates the fuck out of me.

  193. 193.

    Kropadope

    October 25, 2015 at 10:51 am

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Other than that, I have not seen Hilary supporters shitting up threads and acting aggressively in RL over their fucking chosen candidate. 2008, sure. But it’s 2015 now. So, no.

    So, I’m just imaging things like people, entirely unprovoked, trying to create and sustain a narrative that Bernie’s supporters are assholes? I imagined Cacti all those times (s)he responded to any defense I made of Bernie during that BLM mess with “well, this is what all you assholes are saying on twitter and I don’t care what any of you are saying here.” (rough paraphrase) I suppose I also imagined all the times that any criticism of Hillary, no matter the substance, drives a forceful pushback of “well would you rather have a Republican?” Then it must also be my imagination when Hillary gets up on stage and defames her Democratic allies with Republican MSM tropes or lets them pass when the moderator drops them into the debates.

  194. 194.

    Kropadope

    October 25, 2015 at 10:53 am

    @different-church-lady:

    The “unelectable” taunt irritates the fuck out of me.

    Repeated for emphatic agreement.

  195. 195.

    rikyrah

    October 25, 2015 at 10:59 am

    Good Morning, Everyone …enjoy Sunday

  196. 196.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    October 25, 2015 at 11:00 am

    @redshirt: Interesting word – “cenotes”. I kept reading it as C-notes – as in $100 bills.

    Kinda works either way. :-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  197. 197.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 11:11 am

    @Kropadope: Right, there were NO Berniac assholes on twitter. That was all in people’s heads. For example the Nutroots Nation brouhaha. Absolutely no white Bernsters piling on Black activists’ twitter feeds saying horrible and condescending stuff for the world to see. Absolutely no flaming out and accusing Black progressive activists of voting for Republicans and similar whinges.

    Also those rox/sux threads on dKos are all the work of feverishly dedicated Hilary fans, some of them socking the other side to keep it going, while the saintly Bernie supporters stand around and wonder what happened to Left of center comity.

  198. 198.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 25, 2015 at 11:12 am

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: It’s even more interesting if you look up its etymology. It was borrowed into English via Spanish but it isn’t an Indo-European word.

  199. 199.

    Bobby Thomson

    October 25, 2015 at 11:32 am

    @Kropadope: so nothing Sanders supporters do outside of Balloon Juice is fair game for comment, including actions at official campaign events? Interesting ground rules. It’s a good thing for Ssnders he’s not the hothouse flower you are.

  200. 200.

    Cervantes

    October 25, 2015 at 11:33 am

    @Kropadope:

    I still think you should ignore it.

  201. 201.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    October 25, 2015 at 11:42 am

    @Chris:

    My recollection is different: He just seemed to have a grab-bag of policy proposals to let him get into office. When he won, he was just going to coast and let his “compassionate conservatism” tell him where to go. NCLB, cutting taxes, cutting regulation, trying to privatize Social Security, letting the oil industry run wild.

    He and Cheney wanted Iraq because it had (or claimed to have) the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world. Not because of some grand designs to remake the ME into some free market/democratic utopia.

    Making noises about being “strong” against Russia and China was just so much posturing. It let them say we needed more weapons and missile defense and so forth, but it wasn’t going to get in the way of trade deals with China or get us involved in Chechnya or Georgia.

    Picking Condie Rice as his advisor certainly had some cold-war overtones, but he seemed to pick her because he knew her from her previous tutoring, and maybe because of the cold-warriors in his family’s background, but she didn’t seem to have much power as it turned out.

    He wanted to be president for the perks and to help his buddies.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  202. 202.

    Jeffro

    October 25, 2015 at 11:50 am

    @Another Holocene Human: Rubio does suck, and he will have a tough time vs Hillary, but at this point he’s all the Establishment GOP has left. Him, Kaisch, Christie, and (sort of) Fiorina. Of those four, none but Rubio have the conservative bona fides (and relatively fresh face) to win the nom.

  203. 203.

    lol

    October 25, 2015 at 11:57 am

    @gf120581:

    The thing people miss is that McCain fired most of his senior stafff, including a couple career-long advisors. Bush has shown no indication of being willing to do the same.

  204. 204.

    feebog

    October 25, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    While I agree with the campaign part of your hypothesis, I think once 9/11 happened, Bush/Cheney needed to gin up a war to distract the American people and ensure re-election. Iraq was an attractive target because Saddam was such a cartoon character bad guy and Iraq had lots of oil. They believed the could get in and out in a year to 18 months, shut it down just before the election and coast to victory in November 2004. Instead, Iraq was going south on them by the Fall of 2004, and they just slid in under the tag (unless you believe Ohio was rigged, in which case they cheated their way into a second term).

  205. 205.

    eyelessgame

    October 25, 2015 at 1:23 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I’m with you on this. A calculating, cynical liar is easier to deal with – you can convince someone like that that it’s in his interests to work with you. Paul Ryan isn’t a calculating, cynical liar. He’s a terrifyingly naive true believer.

    He does believe there’s “initial harsh medicine” that we have to swallow – tax cuts will result in a crisis that forces spending cuts. That’s been the conservative playbook for a long time. But he also believes it will result in magical utopia once all the spending stops; the Laissez Fairy will give us all Invisible Hand Jobs.

    If you see parallels to “prole revolt => socialist dictatorship => communist utopia”, with attendant serious questions about how to get from phase 2 to phase 3, I can’t blame you a bit.

  206. 206.

    Pie Happens (opiejeanne)

    October 25, 2015 at 1:27 pm

    @Another Holocene Human: Who was that?

  207. 207.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    October 25, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    There was a blockquote fail in my earlier reply to Chris:

    From what I remember, Bush’s original plan to go down in history as a Great President wasn’t Middle East centric – it was to restart the Cold War.

    @feebog: W and his PNAC buddies wanted Iraq before he took office. For the oil, and to avenge GHWB’s “mistakes” in not going to Baghdad (and Saddam apparently trying to put a hit on HW on one of ME trips after the war). 9/11 was a convenient excuse to get the country behind him to finally do it.

    The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was a neoconservative[1][2][3] think tank based in Washington, D.C. that focused on United States foreign policy. It was established as a non-profit educational organization in 1997, and founded by William Kristol and Robert Kagan.[4][5] The PNAC’s stated goal was “to promote American global leadership”.[6] The organization stated that “American leadership is good both for America and for the world,” and sought to build support for “a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity”.[7]

    Of the twenty-five people who signed the PNAC’s founding statement of principles, ten went on to serve in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz.[8][9][10][11] Observers such as Irwin Stelzer and Dave Grondin have suggested that the PNAC played a key role in shaping the foreign policy of the Bush Administration, particularly in building support for the Iraq War.[12][13][14][15] Academics such as Inderjeet Parmar, Phillip Hammond, and Donald E. Abelson have said PNAC’s influence on the George W. Bush administration has been exaggerated.[16][17][18]

    Yes, indeed, they had convinced themselves it would be easy. And cheap. And Iraq’s oil would pay for it. And we’d be greeted as liberators. And Iran would come crawling to us to give us anything we wanted so that they wouldn’t be next. And a whole lot of other nonsense.

    W was convinced that he could cower the Congress into giving him an open-ended declaration so that he could be a “War President” for as long as he wanted with no effective opposition. He could sloganeer and impose his will on the world for almost no price (except for a few thousand US soldiers and a few hundred thousand foreigners, and a few $T). He could coast to re-election on winning a war, having cheap gas for the foreseeable future, etc., etc.

    He was delusional and we’re continuing to pay the price.

    But I don’t think he had some over-arching world view beyond the slogans.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  208. 208.

    gwangung

    October 25, 2015 at 2:18 pm

    @Kropadope: No, I just have to post on twitter and have youngsters lecture me on civil rights.

  209. 209.

    mclaren

    October 25, 2015 at 2:35 pm

    @cokane:

    Rubio is — without a doubt — their most formidable candidate in a general election.

    Bullshit. Rubio is roadkill. If the GOP nominates Rubio, they get dragged down by that 10,000-ton radioactive boat anchor called “Republican anti-Latino racism.” Rubio has already folded like a wet paper bag on immigration reform, so all those Trump quotes that will blast from the TV 24/7/365 about Mexicans allegedly being “rapists” and ‘drug users’ will combine with Rubio’s anti-immigration-reform vote to crush him like a stemarollered cockroach.

    Everywhere Rubio goes, MSM reporters will yammer “If you don’t share Trump’s view of immigrants, why’d you refuse to vote for immigration reform? Why didn’t you give Latino immigrants a path to citizenship?”

    Meanwhile Hills basks in the support of every possible Latino coalition out there while she touts the Democratic party’s consistent support for a path to citizenship for undocumented Latinos.

    Rubio also has a history of collapsing under pressure. He can’t take the heat. He’s not a seasoned campaigner. Hillary can turn up the heat until Rubio becomes a block of charcoal and she won’t even break a sweat. You saw what Hillary did in that 11-hour congressional testimony, you think Rubio can stand that kind of pressure? Rubio is toast. He’ll fumble and stumble and waffle and bumble and fum-fuh and bungle his way into an endless series of embarrassing soundbites and grotesque gaffes due to his lack of campaign experience and inability to handle pressure, and the Latino bloc still won’t vote for him — because, ‘c’mon! People! Look at the GOP’s history on anti-immigrant hatemongering! It would be like the black vote going to the late Sen. Jesse Helms.

    Ain’t.

    Gonna.

    Happen.

    I hope they nominate Rubio. He’ll go up in flames faster than a magician’s piece of flash paper.

  210. 210.

    Jeffro

    October 25, 2015 at 2:39 pm

    By the way if the GOP can’t take take down Trump, they better at least point out that his supporters are turning more and more violent at his rallies

  211. 211.

    sharl

    October 25, 2015 at 2:40 pm

    @Pie Happens (opiejeanne): In case you didn’t already get an answer to this, that was Edmund Muskie, during the 1972 Presidential campaign.

    There are actually conflicting accounts of whether Muskie actually shed a tear.

    This incident was provoked by Nixon’s dirty tricks operatives, via the “Canuck Letter“.

    IMO, this is also how the late David Broder made his bones with the official inside-the-Beltway Village. I don’t have access to the 1987 Washington Monthly archives where Broder supposedly came clean about this story; here is one discussion about it.

  212. 212.

    mclaren

    October 25, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    W was convinced that he could cower the Congress into giving him an open-ended declaration so that he could be a “War President” for as long as he wanted with no effective opposition. He could sloganeer and impose his will on the world for almost no price (except for a few thousand US soldiers and a few hundred thousand foreigners, and a few $T). He could coast to re-election on winning a war…

    W was correct.

    His family paid almost no price for the Iraq quagmire, for the destruction of the constitution via the USA Treason — excuse me, Patriot — Act, for the conversion of America into a garrison state operating under undeclared martial law, for the Swift-boating of an entire political party, for returning McCarthyism (updated by Karl Rove & Ann Coulter) and making it the standard modus operandi of U.S. politics for 8 long years, for unleashing mass insanity in a new Grand Inquisition, for crony-capitalist thievery that left the world economy in ruins and the U.S. treasury empty.

    W's family paid no price at all for all those high crimes and misdemeanors. And the proof is clear: another member of his crime family is currently running for president.

    If there were any justice at all, the entire U.S. population would rise up with a window-shattering howl of rage and carry Jeb off to the nearest lamppost to hang him like Mussolini for passersby to spit at after they beat his sorry ass to death with clubs like a baby seal.

  213. 213.

    mclaren

    October 25, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    @Kropadope:

    So, I’m just imaging things like people, entirely unprovoked, trying to create and sustain a narrative that Bernie’s supporters are assholes? I imagined Cacti all those times (s)he responded to any defense I made of Bernie during that BLM mess with “well, this is what all you assholes are saying on twitter and I don’t care what any of you are saying here.” (rough paraphrase) I suppose I also imagined all the times that any criticism of Hillary, no matter the substance, drives a forceful pushback of “well would you rather have a Republican?” Then it must also be my imagination when Hillary gets up on stage and defames her Democratic allies with Republican MSM tropes or lets them pass when the moderator drops them into the debates.

    No, you are correct, sir. There are a handful of sad grumpy Democrats in the BJ commentariat whose frantically failed attempts to demonize Bernie Sanders supporters have elicited nothing more than a wan smile from those of us who support Sanders.

    Don’t worry about it. Kids will be kids. Let the toddlers throw their mud, it won’t hurt either Bernie’s or Hillary’s chances of winning the general election.

    I think the Hillbots are still fuming with rage that their bad behavior back in ’08 made them look petty and grotesque, and they’re enraged far beyond the capacity for rational thought by the fact that the rest of us remember thier silly tantrums from ’08 when Obama surged ahead and Hillary’s coronation collapsed.

    Hey, the Democratic party is a big tent. Don’t sweat it. A handful of fringe cranks have accused me of “drooling with hate” for Hillary and being a foaming-at-the-mouth anti-Obama GOP plant. Just laugh it off. Hillary’s positions are a mixed bag, some terrible (neocon foreign policy, Bush-style love of too-big-to-fail banks, adoration of undelcared martial law AKA national security bullshit to cover up the limitless expansion of government snooping & corporate power) and some good (women’s rights, gay rights, pro-immigration reform, anti-inequality, pro-minimum wage raise except she weasels by saying the states should decide individually). Bernie’s policies are better, but we don’t really know what a Hillary presidency will be like. Remember: FDR ran on a relatively conservative platform, then turned out to be a radical leftist. Obama ran on a leftist platform and turned out to be a near-clone of George W. Bush once he got into office. So we don’t know. Even if Hillary wins next November, it’s not a disaster. So just shrug off the hyperbole from the Hillbots and enjoy the spectacle of Republican nominees blowing up like tie fighters in that chase through the asteroid belt in THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.

  214. 214.

    mclaren

    October 25, 2015 at 3:15 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Assumes facts not in evidence. He’s a lifelong fan of Ayn Rand. I see no reason to think he doesn’t truly believe that tax cuts and gutting the safety net won’t create a magical utopia. That’s what worries me. If he’s just a shill, he has no reason to continue Boehner’s insane, unprecedented gridlock strategy. Hell, it’s not like the Teabaggers can overthrow him.

    Yes, Paul Ryan actually quoted the crazy speech by Francisco D’aconia from Atlas Shrugged when he talked about fiscal policy. That’s like a general quoting a batman comic when talking about military strategy. It’s so crazy, the alarm bells go off and the warning lights sound.

    Fortunately, Ryan has been so thoroughly discredited by sharp-eyed economists like Paul Krugman that even the mainstream media no longer take him seriously .They realize now that Ryan’s magic asterisks are nothing but smoke-and-mirror bullshit to cover cuts in medicare and social security combined with tax cuts for the rich. In short, Ryan is trying to peddle supply side economics part deux, Krugman pointed it out and noted that it didn’t work back in 1981 when Reagan peddled the same snake oil, and the media have finally wised up.

    As for the claim “Hell, it’s not like the Teabaggers can overthrow him,” sorry, no, the speaker position is now RINO-grinder. Republicans demand impossibilities (immediate repeal of Obamacare, more tax cuts for the rich combined with cuts to social security & medicare, doubling military spending, eliminating bans on prayer in schools, rolling back Roe v Wade) and when it turns out the speaker can’t deliver, the Tea Party feeds him into the wood chipper feet first.

    I look forward to seeing Paul Ryan up to his knees in the wood chipper begging and screaming. Within 5 years, you’ll see Paul Ryan on late night TV hawking magnetic pain relief bracelets.

  215. 215.

    Vor

    October 25, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: JEB signed a PNAC letter calling for war with Iraq circa 1998. He is on the record as fully on board.

  216. 216.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    October 25, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    @Vor: Not exactly. At least it appears he didn’t sign that particular letter, but JEB? was in deep with PNAC.

    Crooks & Liars has links.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  217. 217.

    Doug R

    October 25, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    @srv: Are you Bill Clinton, perchance?

  218. 218.

    Ian

    October 25, 2015 at 7:58 pm

    @efgoldman:
    That sounds fun. How do I get that?

  219. 219.

    Paul in KY

    October 26, 2015 at 10:14 am

    @ruemara: Congrats! Great accomplishment!

  220. 220.

    Paul in KY

    October 26, 2015 at 10:25 am

    @Mandalay: Extra props to Katy, IMO. Logically, she should be a Republican.

  221. 221.

    Paul in KY

    October 26, 2015 at 10:29 am

    @feebog: They did not believe that. They knew it would take many years, if the effort was given. They were not going to give that effort. The main mission was to break Iraq as a functioning Arab state & to use the war as a re-election boost to Dumfuckya.

  222. 222.

    Paul in KY

    October 26, 2015 at 10:31 am

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: They did not believe that. That was just their PNAC marketing (that it would be easy, etc.) they knew it would be hard, but they certainly were not going to do what it would take to make it ‘hard’.

    They were there to destroy Iraq for Israel & to help Dumfuckya get re-elected.

  223. 223.

    Paul in KY

    October 26, 2015 at 10:33 am

    @mclaren: Agree that TANJ.

  224. 224.

    Sad_Dem

    October 26, 2015 at 1:03 pm

    @Chris: I’ve known some Satanists. Were they any more sincere than a lot of Christians? Hard to know.

  225. 225.

    Deeni

    October 27, 2015 at 6:30 pm

    @rikyrah: I saw him “say it” on camera on MSNBC last eve. He said it with a big helping of snarky snarl. Not his finest hour.

  226. 226.

    Deeni

    October 27, 2015 at 6:45 pm

    I am so glad to find this site, last night researching “passive agressive affect Ben Carson psyche”. Read down a few threads since. what a breath of fresh air; no name-calling, no crazies; fine commentary with gentle good humor, to boot. What a pleasant discovery… thank you all!

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