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When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

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You are here: Home / Pet Blogging / Dog Blogging / Good Business Model

Good Business Model

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This is great:

Gov. Andrew Cuomo has signed off on a bill that will allow dog lovers to dine out with their pets, a change that was opposed by Mayor Bill de Blasio.

Cuomo, who approved the legislation Monday night and is expected to announce the news today, has essentially altered the New York State Health Code to allow pooches to join human companions at sidewalk cafes, reports the New York Post.

Wilson Alexander Aguilar and his Miniature Schnauzer Tolliver grab a bite at the Bread Box Cafe in Long Island City, which is already dog friendly.

The bill’s sponsor, state Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal, a Manhattan Democrat, introduced the bill in March. It passed by the Assembly in June.

“No longer will our beloved companion animals be relegated to staying at home while we enjoy outdoor dining,” Rosenthal told the Post. “Now they can simply come with us, like any other family member.”

That’s how it should be- restaurants that want to allow this can, those which chose not to don’t have to, and the customer wins.

Reader Interactions

172Comments

  2. 2.

    Omnes Omnibus

    The liability issues for the restaurants will be fun when someone’s dog bites someone else’s kid.

  3. 3.

    Elizabelle

    Glad to see this. Will get dog people socializing more, and spending money in the community (as opposed to standing around at dog parks, coffee or surreptitious brew in hand).

  9. 9.

    Brachiator

    As long as there’s some large and easily recognizable signage to show that a restaurant is companion animal friendly, this seems entirely reasonable.

    ETA: But what do you call a doggie bag you get in one of these restaurants?

  10. 10.

    Betty Cracker

    When I first visited Europe in the mid-90s, I was surprised — and pleased! — to see dogs lounging with their owners in coffee houses and the like. There are some places here that allow folks to bring their dogs to outdoor patios. I never do, though. Mine would be disruptive, which is my fault. I could bring my chickens, but someone might mistake them for an escaped entree….

  12. 12.

    Snark Based Reality

    I must have missed when the rest of us got together and decided it was a moral obligation to accommodate the fact you decided to obtain and keep a pet. Yes, we all together will help subsidize the true cost of your choice in life. Because it’s that important.

    Fuck your dogs in public places. So many badly trained badly behaved dogs out there. And the smaller they are the more defective the person owning them tends to be.

    Visiting NYC during summer dryspells is like wallowing in shit. Dog feces everywhere.

    Signed, Lifelong NY state resident.

  15. 15.

    MomSense

    John, if you ever decide to visit Maine I will take you to the best place to get seafood. All of us are known by our dogs’ names and it is such a happy place.

  16. 16.

    Renie

    Who is he kidding? Cuomo doesn’t give a crap about animals. He just did this to piss off DeBlasio.

    Personally I wouldn’t want to eat in a restaurant that had animals in it. And I’m a dog lover. When my kids were small, I didn’t want to eat in restaurants with kids either!!!

  18. 18.

    Snark Based Reality

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Can we start with parks banning dogs so all of the local dog owners don’t use park lawns as a place to dump several pounds of feces a day? So many great places it would be fun to picnic at ruined by the fact it’s a fucking landmine field. Do I own part of those public places?

  19. 19.

    jl

    @Snark Based Reality: In SF, many parks of dogs and non-dog sections. Worked for Duboce Park, which is no longer known as dog-shit park.

    SF is dirty enough, but even though I am not nearly the pet fanatic that others here are, dog shit is not what i worry about stepping in while walking around in parks. But in small heavily used parks, it has been a problem.

  20. 20.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    But what do you call a doggie bag you get in one of these restaurants?

    A leftover bag/box.

    This is actually pretty common in the next town over from me, Sierra Madre. It has a old-fashioned downtown full of locally owned restaurants, and almost all of them let people bring their dogs with them to the outside tables. It’s very pleasant, and the dogs who go to places like that are generally well socialized. My impression is that you’re at much more risk of getting a bruise from a dog wagging its tail too happily than a bite from one that’s misbehaving.

  22. 22.

    Tyro

    I really have no problems with a pet lying by its owner’s table in outdoor seating. No different than hanging out at the park with dogs.

  26. 26.

    Jane2

    @MomSense: That sounds like a great place! Between that and the chance to get my picture taken with the Duck of Justice, Maine is sounding awfully attractive.

  30. 30.

    bystander

    I believe you can only have your dog in the sidewalk portion of a cafe and not seated at the table. My personal feeling about sidewalk dining in NYC was that it was enjoyed only by those who like being seated on filthy sidewalks, with bums and buses scenting the air. There’s now a move in the city to allow “companion” dogs in actual restaurants. Love my dog but why would I want him with me at a nice restaurant?

    I ate a fish dinner once in a restaurant in Amsterdam while the house cat stood next to me meowing loudly. Pretty cute, plus everyone walking in the restaurant said something clever about my dining companion in Dutch. I assume clever since I don’t speak Dutch.

  31. 31.

    Tommy

    I don’t have a dog and there are not a lot of outdoor cafes around me. But where there are dogs are welcome. Not even sure if it is a law that they are not welcome.

  32. 32.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    The DC area has had rules like these (permitting dogs at outdoor restaurants) for years. It’s not a problem.

    Washington Post:

    Despite the abundance of openly dog-friendly D.C. eateries, restaurant owners remain wary of exposing themselves to the potential risks of having dogs on the patio. Service dogs are always welcome, inside and outside, of course. But the D.C. Department of Health’s food and safety regulations ban dogs from any area of a dining establishment where food is served.

    “If this type of conduct is observed during a regular inspection, the business will be subject to applicable sanctions,” which include issuing a formal notice to remedy the situation, followed by a closure of up to five days, said Marcus Williams, the department’s director of communications, in an e-mail. Regulations to address restrictions on dogs in food establishments have been drafted, Williams added, and should be ready for public comment in the fall.

    Other jurisdictions are more permissive. In Montgomery County, dogs are allowed on patios if the restaurant gives notice to the Department of Health and Human Services, according to a spokeswoman. And in Arlington and Alexandria, a variance permits dogs on certain patios.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  33. 33.

    PurpleGirl

    Did Cuomo sign the bill to allow state funding to go to TNR programs in NYS? (For those who don’t recognize it, TNR = Trap-Neuter-Return. A way to control feral/community cat populations to prevent population problems.)

  34. 34.

    Cacti

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The liability issues for the restaurants will be fun when someone’s dog bites someone else’s kid.

    But everyone’s dog is lovable and wonderfully socialized, and would never bite anyone.

    Hadn’t you heard?

    That said, I generally agree that the law should leave it up to the business owner.

  37. 37.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    It’s pretty common here in balmy So Cal. Dogs allowed on outdoor seating patios, not inside.

    The Story Tavern in Burbank added a heated dog patio, so my local Juicers could bring their pooches when/if we have another meetup.

  39. 39.

    Tommy

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: It has been a decade since I lived on Capital Hill in DC but dogs were often brought everywhere. People brought their dogs and it was just a given. Knew a few by name. Seemed like a natural thing to me.

  40. 40.

    Elizabelle

    @jl: You made me laugh. I remember his little birthday song.

    There are some human features to Boehner. We may want him back after a few months of wonk-not Ryan.

  42. 42.

    Roger Moore

    @dogwood:

    TNR would be a good program to use on the increasingly feral republicans .

    I could go for the trap, and definitely the neuter, but I’m not so sold on the release part. Can’t we just send them to a no-kill shelter? [ETA: AKA FEMA Camps]

  50. 50.

    Germy Shoemangler

    @Baud:

    There are some human features to Boehner.
    Two. 1) Drinking and 2) Crying.

    There are some things only his bartender and pillow know.

  52. 52.

    mtiffany

    I couldn’t stand dining out when it was only other people’s screaming children I had to put up with and now we’re adding dogshit into the mix? Fuck that.

  54. 54.

    MomSense

    I’m thinking the people complaining about dog shit (which is the fault of the dog owners) have never used a public restroom.

  56. 56.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Renie: Who is he kidding? Cuomo doesn’t give a crap about animals. He just did this to piss off DeBlasio.

    Heh. Seems plausible. I can imagine most dogs giving Cuomo a side-eye and wide berth.

  57. 57.

    Tommy

    @mtiffany: Before my brother went back to college and had a little girl he ran a high-end restaurant. They openly didn’t want children. To the point they didn’t have child seats. He openly talked about this until well he had a child. Katie is a wonderful niece but once or twice she acted out at a restuart and I used to hate it as much as you might, but I learned to deal with it because parents might want to go out to eat and take their child with them.

  59. 59.

    Gimlet

    Anyone got the “details for dummies” on this wonderful deal?

    GOP leaders and the White House are pushing structural reforms to Social Security and Medicare that would avert the double-digit increases expected next year for many beneficiaries in both programs while saving billions in other areas.

  60. 60.

    Cephalus Max

    @Snark Based Reality:

    I must have missed when the rest of us got together and decided it was a moral obligation to accommodate the fact you decided to obtain and keep a pet. Yes, we all together will help subsidize the true cost of your choice in life.

    Please, please, please tell me you don’t have children. Because if so, I can promise you that I’m subsidizing your kid(s) much more than you are subsidizing my dog.

    (Which I am entirely OK with, other than when I’m faced with this attitude that I run into all too often…)

  61. 61.

    pacem appellant

    I’m glad some people will get to dine with their pets if that’s what they want. I’m accustomed to the site of it, living in CA. Since I personally don’t like to dine with other people’s pets–they freak my kid out, I’m allergic, old-foggie mentality–I can eat indoors, at table far away from such patrons, or at a restaurant that does not allow dogs. I’m sure New York will be able to figure out how to make it work.

  63. 63.

    beltane

    I see people dining with their dogs on Church St. in Burlington, VT all the time. The dogs are usually sleeping. Not many people would want to bring a hyper dog to a restaurant. Personally, I like to leave the dog and the kids home when I go out to eat, but that’s just me.

  64. 64.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @Gimlet: Proposed deal (144 page .pdf).

    Most of it is boilerplate and it’s easy to skim. The various top-line numbers are easy to find. The deal includes the usual fix so that the proposed 20% cut in disability payments won’t happen.

    I hope someone figures out what Title XI is all about – why was all this Partnership stuff in such a critical bill? Cui bono?

    HTH.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  67. 67.

    Anniecat45

    A similar law took effect in California this past January — restaurants can allow dogs in outdoor seating areas. I like dogs but can’t have one right now (apartment lease issue) so I find it delightful to go to a restaurant where dogs are hanging out with their owners. If I ask the owner nicely they will usually let me pet their furry dinner companion and get my puppy fix.

  68. 68.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @beltane: Christ, I wonder how long McConnell’s going to let that tantrum drag on. Cruz will want to get up there, probably Marco, Mike Lee….

  69. 69.

    beltane

    @efgoldman: Every CVS I’ve been to lately is horribly understaffed. I do not like having to wait for 10 minutes for someone to show up at the register. Rite Aid is a much faster shopping experience. I haven’t been to a Walgreens in over 30 years so I really have no opinion about the chain.

  72. 72.

    Gimlet

    I saw a werewolf with a Chinese menu in his hand
    Walking through the streets of Soho in the rain
    He was looking for a place called Lee Ho Fook’s
    Gonna get a big dish of beef chow mein

    Aaoooooo!

  74. 74.

    beltane

    @Baud: Well, duh, haven’t you heard of gun dogs?

    My own Labrador retriever is not, nor has she ever been, a member of the NRA.

  75. 75.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud: Oh Gawd. “Happened in Florida?” is one of the four categories.

    Good catch! And that’s the second shooting dog named “Trigger” Balloon Juice has encountered.

  78. 78.

    raven

    We found Bohdi at the bakery we go to every day. It’s a great patio with signs asking that you keep them leashed and I do (other than every morning when the big boy helps clean up)!

  79. 79.

    p.a.

    Today’s special: grilled red snapper with rocoto sauce, asparagus with parmagiana shavings, and a leg hump.

  84. 84.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Roger Moore: Yeah, but McConnell is stuck between (much more I think than Paul) Cruz, who will take his filibuster to FoxNews*, and the Wall St/Ch of Commerce types who want this nonsense over. I think Cruz is playing a much longer game than Paul (or Rubio, or anyone else). I have no fucking idea what that game is, but I think Cruz is going to keep it going for years.

    *ETA: maybe that’s not even the right venue: Mark Levin, Laura Ingaham? I don’t have much sense for what lays beyond Rupertland. And what if Trump shows up on the Capitol steps in a silly hat carrying a megaphone? I just love the notion of McConnell running over to Boehner’s office to see if the bottles are all hidden in the same places

  85. 85.

    Patricia Kayden

    @beltane: Yeah, my dogs would be jumping up all over the place. Would be a disaster although I see the attraction for people who own calmer dogs.

    @rikyrah: The good thing is that dogs are only allowed in the outdoor seating area which means that non-dog lovers can eat indoors. Not a bad compromise.

  87. 87.

    Cacti

    Proposed signage for non-dog restaurants:

    “Any non-service animals brought to this establishment will be considered kitchen deliveries.”

    :-)

  88. 88.

    raven

    Five years ago they passed no smoking in bars and restaurants, now that nasty, stinky fucking shit is in all the outdoor seating areas downtown.

  89. 89.

    PurpleGirl

    AFAIK, you need a reservation at the Cat Cafe in NYC. I need to go there some day. I think it would be nice to have a cup of tea and muffin with a cat purring near me or in my lap.

    ETA: Yes, it’s the Meow Parlour, on Hester Street and you need a reservation.

    ETA 2: http://www.meowparlour.com

  92. 92.

    El Caganer

    Not sure why this is such a big deal. There are restaurants here in Philly that have allowed dogs in their outdoor seating areas for years. I haven’t read about any problems.

  94. 94.

    JPL

    @raven: The local parks here have even banned e-cigs. I haven’t seen smoking on the patios of restaurants here but don’t know if it is banned. Dogs are welcome on the patios in the historic district.
    My burb has gone big time, high density building and it’s encroaching on my neighborhood. A developer is trying to have 21 acres currently zoned to on house per 2/3 acre to 113 dwellings on the property. I’ve been a busy person waving signs and trying to unseat the incumbents on the council. It was a pleasant surprise to see the local CBS station have a segment on this in the evening news.

  95. 95.

    El Caganer

    @raven: I just find it kind of weird that the governor and state legislature would get involved in something like this.

  97. 97.

    raven

    @JPL: This place is nuts with all the luxury student apartments going up downtown. The small business owners are being squeezed out and it’s getting to be bars, corporate food and apartments. I don’t go down there anymore so I don’t really care.

    Former Junkman’s Daughter’s Brother building to become Athens student-oriented housing
    By JIM THOMPSONupdated Tuesday, October 27, 2015 – 9:08am8 comments
    Add 25 more student-oriented bedrooms to the housing stock in downtown Athens, courtesy of a local company with a significant presence in the student rental market, with numerous homes, cottages, lofts and other student-oriented housing developments across the community.

  98. 98.

    raven

    @WaterGirl: I fought it out with ours and finally gave up. We have farmers from outlying counties using a city park paid for by residents making rules that otherwise don’t exist in the park. How they can keep them put of Lincoln Square is a puzzle.

  99. 99.

    RSA

    @Betty Cracker:

    When I first visited Europe in the mid-90s, I was surprised — and pleased! — to see dogs lounging with their owners in coffee houses and the like.

    When I moved to Germany in the mid-80s, I was shocked that dogs were allowed in restaurants. After a while–after a few incidents of not noticing dogs were in the room until they got up to leave–I got used to it. No big deal. It’s not like they’re in the kitchen, scarfing up food off the floor.

  101. 101.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: Wow, what’s really sad about that is the nice little chart, detailing the state and where it happened – hunting, boat, even which ones happened in Florida.

    How come we get to have that information for dogs shooting humans and not humans and police shooting humans?

    (Not yelling at you, Baud, I realize this is not your fault.)

  102. 102.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @raven:

    In LA, smoking is banned on outdoor patios, too. Plus you have to sit or stand away from doorways (40 feet, IIRC).

    The Disney parks won’t let you smoke e-cigs outside of the designated smoking area, either. My brother’s girlfriend was pissed that she got yelled at in Disney World for having her e-cig out while we were walking around and had to go to the smoking area. She was probably doing the e-cig equivalent of 3 packs a day. I don’t think I ever saw it out of her hand.

  103. 103.

    WaterGirl

    @raven: Our bakery has an outdoor seating area, and I’m always thrilled when there is a dog in residence. I bet your guys are very popular at your bakery.

    How is Lil Bit?

  105. 105.

    WaterGirl

    @raven: Yeah, they have made so many bad rules that our farmer’s market isn’t even half as good as it was 10 years ago. Grrr.

  112. 112.

    WereBear

    A lot of our local restaurants allow dogs on the patios. This just makes it officially okay.

    Most people like it. It’s a lot better that the dog sits quietly under the table than hanging in the car, after all. These are folks on vacation, and they can’t leave them in the rooms.

  115. 115.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    classmate of the victim in yesterday’s classroom assault about to be on the Hayes show

    Sheriff says she was preventing the other students from learning, what I’ve read is she was playing with her phone instead of paying attention.

  116. 116.

    Randy P

    I know a couple of local landmarks (cafes) that allow dogs inside, or at least used to.

    In Baltimore, the Daily Grind. That place was always full of dogs. Now admittedly it’s been a very long time since I’ve been there. When I used to hang out there, Homicide was on the air and being filmed in that neighborhood.

    More recently, we were regulars for a while at Coffee Labs in Tarrytown, NY. The “Labs” in the name is for Labradors, which play a big part in the place’s decor. It was a big hangout for local dogs and their owners. Till apparently one day, one stupid idiot complained, and that was that. Health Dept cracked down and dogs are permanently banned.

    I’m sure there are many other places like this, funky little dog hangouts where it’s not quite legal for the dogs to be indoors with the customers, but it’s a beloved local tradition and the authorities tolerate it. Unfortunately, all it takes is one sourpuss to ruin it.

  118. 118.

    Roger Moore

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    The Disney parks won’t let you smoke e-cigs outside of the designated smoking area, either.

    Ironic, considering Walt’s smoking habits. OTOH, I’ve heard that Disney has gone full revisionist, photoshopping cigarettes out of Walt’s hand in pictures and teaching employees to point with two fingers so they look the same way Walt did when he was pointing while holding a (now removed) cigarette.

  119. 119.

    some guy

    Breaking: Jeb! continues to trail the pack:

    Only 18 percent of Republicans said they would enthusiastically support Bush, a son and brother of Republican presidents, the lowest of any candidate, and about half of primary voters said they would either support him because he was the nominee or not vote for him at all.

    developing……

  121. 121.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @gelfling545: Jesus fucking Christ. I’ll make it clear. I actually like going into places and finding dogs there. All I was pointing out was that if a dog bites someone out on some restaurant’s patio, the restaurant is quite likely to be sued.

  122. 122.

    Baud

    @gelfling545:

    I know! Everyone here is always praising European style social democracy, but as soon as it comes to dog rights, they’re all “American Exceptionalism bitches.”

    Hypocrites.

  123. 123.

    raven

    @SiubhanDuinne: Downtown Athens has become a mini Bourbon Street. In fact, here’s there latest furor.

    Outcry continued against downtown Athens bar General Beauregard’s for a photo that connects it to a list featuring a drink with a censored racial slur in its name despite the owner’s denial the watermelon-flavored shooter exists.
    Daniel Simmons, owner of General Beauregard’s, said Tuesday he is “investigating” where the photo showing descriptions of how to make certain named alcoholic drinks came from. One drink, with the printed name “N*****ita,” contains tequila and watermelon flavoring.
    The photo circulated on Facebook and Twitter with descriptions saying Generals serves the drink. Simmons denied the claims.
    “We had absolutely no knowledge of, and would never condone, this image that is claimed to be our drink menu,” Simmons wrote in an email Tuesday.

  124. 124.

    Roger Moore

    @Baud:

    Everyone here is always praising European style social democracy, but as soon as it comes to dog rights, they’re all “American Exceptionalism bitches.”

    I saw what you did there.

  128. 128.

    Roger Moore

    @raven:

    “We had absolutely no knowledge of, and would never condone, this image that is claimed to be our drink menu,” Simmons wrote in an email Tuesday.

    Because a bar named after a Confederate general would never, no-how do anything that might be insulting to black people.

  129. 129.

    WaterGirl

    @raven: Glad our girl is doing well, give her a doggie hug for me. Love the idea of Raven’s picture being on the wall.

  132. 132.

    Patricia Kayden

    Watching Niya Kenny on Chris Hayes. The cop beast who attacked that Black girl arrested Niya for verbally criticizing his violence. Now Niya is being charged and had a lawyer with her.
    Apparently the teacher called the police because the girl was looking at her phone during class. Didn’t know that was such a crime that the police have to be called.

  137. 137.

    Peale

    Perhaps because we’re used to living with people, I can’t see “dog shit in restaurants” being a problem. Or dogs stealing food from plates. We aren’t dumb, yah know. Nor nearly as self-centered as you nervous nellies think we are. If our dogs aren’t potty trained, we won’t be bringing them out to restaurants. I really don’t know which city full of dog shit you’ve all been coming to. Maybe I should check my shoes.

  139. 139.

    dogwood

    @Tommy:
    Of course parents have a right to go to dinner with their children. Some people who who don’t have pets or children seem to feel entitled to be in a child free/animal free environment at all times. The world is full of kids and pets; you can’t avoid them and I don’t know why you’d want to. For every annoying kid I’ve encountered in a restaurant or an airplane , there have been dozens who were either non obtrusive or quite engaging. Same goes for animals. Some people just don’t have enough to bitch about.

  140. 140.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: Your comment reminded me of a conversation I had with the kid at the farmer’s market who carried all my pansies to the car for me. I’m guessing that he’s maybe around 13 or 15 years old. When he saw all the Obama stuff on my car, it started a conversation.

    Him: “You like Obama?”
    Me: “Yeah, how about you?”

    Him: “No. I’m a Republican.”
    Me: “What don’t you like?”

    Him: “He named his health care plan after himself, and he wasn’t the only one who helped make that happen.”
    Me: [explained that he didn’t name it that, the republicans did, etc]

    Him: “Well, he spent all that money on Obamacare when there are other things that are important.”
    Me: “You don’t think that saving peoples lives is important? People die every day without health care.”

    Him: “If we’re going to do healthcare, then we should do it like they do in Sweden and & other European countries.”
    Me: “So you like universal health care, but we just didn’t go far enough?’

    Him: “They spend their money on better stuff, and have trains and better transportation and stuff.”
    Me: “You’re a smart kid, I think you might want to do some more reading before you decide you’re a republican like your dad. Let’s talk again next year.”

  142. 142.

    Donut

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I am an insurance broker. I specialize in restaurants. I have clients in NYC. I will tell my NYC clients who allow dogs on premises to expect to pay substantially more for the liability portion of their property and casualty coverages over the medium term. If they ask me “is it covered?” I will tell them even if it’s legal, I wouldn’t take the risk that your carrier will cover it. This is a dumb dumb dumb idea on multiple levels. There will be claims. They will have serious negative impact on human beings, and all for what? So Rover doesn’t feel left out? Ok, great. Let’s talk again when someone brings a pit or Rotweiler to a crowded eating or drinking place and someone fucking dies. It will happen. It’s not if. It will happen. Insurance is bought for the times when your number is up and someone does something dumb or is negligent. Then we will see claims made of very high value, and it will max out limits on some restaurant owners’ policies, and imsrisnce companies will run screaming back to the legislature to fix this shit.

  148. 148.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Roger Moore:

    Yep, revisionist with the cigarette photos. The rationale is that we’re a family entertainment company and we don’t want kids thinking that it’s okay to smoke.

    I actually learned the pointing thing while working at a different LA theme park (Universal). We were told that certain ethnicities and nationalities consider it rude to point with one finger, so we should either use two or gesture with the whole hand. I still do it to this day if I’m giving someone directions.

  149. 149.

    Donut

    @raven:

    Totally. Especially the part where I talked about how people sometimes die on a restaurant premises, and how we should regulate to prevent that.

    Totally capitalist pig of me, I know.

  151. 151.

    Andrey

    I love dogs, and I’ve owned a dog, and I would not go to a restaurant that has a lot of dogs. The health hazard is too high. And it’s not from visible things like dog bites or dog poop. Fleas, ticks, mites, bacteria, etc. – that’s where the health hazard comes from. Every animal is a tiny ecosystem. Yes, that includes humans, but humans in a given region generally share a common set of immunities and resistances – and humans don’t have a thick bed of fur, don’t commonly sleep outside, and are a lot more likely to shower/bathe regularly. Our immune systems adapt to the pets we keep, but not necessarily to random strangers’ pets.

  152. 152.

    dogwood

    @Patricia Kayden:
    I made some comments about this yesterday, and your comment affirms what I suspected. This mess began with a teacher making a bad choice. You never involve parents, counsellors administrators or heaven forbid, cops for shit like this. Higher ups come into the picture when you have serious concerns about a student’s performance, attitude, health, etc. or when you’ve tried everything to establish some trust with a defiant kid. Just like parents should never fight in front of their children, teachers should avoid conflicts with a student in front of an entire class unless something horrific is going on. Incidents like this piss me off for 2 reasons. First and foremost for the injustice and humiliation visited on this young woman, and secondly for all the bullshit about how awful and out of control our high schools are that gets discussed on the news. We all saw the video. Did that look like an out of control bunch of teenagers to anyone here? Hell no. It looked like the majority of classroom all over the country.

  155. 155.

    John Cole

    @Snark Based Reality:

    I must have missed when the rest of us got together and decided it was a moral obligation to accommodate the fact you decided to obtain and keep a pet. Yes, we all together will help subsidize the true cost of your choice in life. Because it’s that important.

    I feel that way about your kids.

    But way to miss the point- if you don’t want to be around pets, go to one that doesn’t allow it. Unfortunately, no such option for me and your little whiny plague bearing bastard.

  157. 157.

    Joel

    I hate dogs in restaurants. One of the weird aspects of (some) Seattle bars that I hated. As long as they stay outside, like smokers used to, when people smoked, I’m okay with it.

  158. 158.

    Corner Stone

    @Joel: You should have to live with it. Or take a table inside by the bathrooms. Or go somewhere else! Because, fuck you, that’s why.

  159. 159.

    J R in WV

    @Betty Cracker:

    In Key West there are still feral chickens free on the island, and many restaurants have them wandering in and out. There are aggressive sea gulls too, which are less cute.

    We took our only “cruise” in the Virgin Islands on a sail boat, the captain was French, from Brittany, his wife was Italian but raised in Argentina and Brazil. They had a Portuguese water dog who sat at the table with the crew, and picked his cereal for breakfast. Pretty cute.

    A great dog, knew 3 languages, but only really took French seriously. Mrs J would finally use “NON!” and he would stop whatever and look sheepish.

    No reason for dogs not to be allowed around dinner, if they know their manners, and haven’t eaten something way rotten in the woods just previously. Our younger dog ate something vile yesterday. Ralphed it up on the dog bed not long before bedtime, smelled rank all night.

    She also emitted the worst smells until not long ago. She was kind of miserable, and so we hope she won’t do it again.

    But how mortifying would it be to be at a nice restaurant patio for dinner with puppy, and that happens? You would have to pay for everyone’s dinner, tip hugely, and leave, never to return.

    Mrs J is rooting for the Mets, who are up one run on a great at bat in the 8th. I’m in the next room, just listening to the sound of the crowd, getting updates on doubles and runs.

  163. 163.

    Suzanne

    I didn’t realize that this wasn’t allowed in NY. We have lots of restaurants that have dog-friendly patios. We often sit out there when the weather is nice, even if we don’t have Loonie with us. It’s never been an issue.

    However, my question has always been w/r/t counter service restaurants. If you have to go up to the counter to order and pay, and you have your dog with you, how do you deal with that? I have seen some people leave their dogs unattended while they go in, and that obviously isn’t the right way to handle it.

  169. 169.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @AxelFoley: There is a difference. There is no non-frivolous case about dog shit. Biting creates a liability issue. That was my only point.

  170. 170.

    AxelFoley

    @MomSense:

    I’m thinking the people complaining about dog shit (which is the fault of the dog owners) have never used a public restroom.

    I try to avoid public restrooms at all costs.

  172. 172.

    dogwood

    I’m allergic to cats, and I can’t tell you how frustrating it is to have cat owners ask you why you don’t like cats when you are obviously avoiding their feline pets. When you tell them you’re allergic, they look at you like you’re making it up. I don’t think I should have to stick around the cat long enough for my eyes to swell shut to prove I’m not lying. Being allergic to cats isn’t the same as hating cats anymore than being afraid of some dogs means you hate dogs.

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