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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: De-bacle

Thursday Morning Open Thread: De-bacle

by Anne Laurie|  October 29, 20155:30 am| 192 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Open Threads, Republican Stupidity, Republican Venality, Republicans in Disarray!, Ever Get The Feeling You've Been Cheated?

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This is the absolute nadir of political discourse. Nothing said in this whole debate but stupid. And some outright lies.

— Clara Jeffery (@ClaraJeffery) October 29, 2015

Twitter spent today discussing the dangers of a reckless ball of hot air & tonight live-tweeting the GOP debate. At least we're consistent.

— John Dingell (@JohnDingell) October 29, 2015

Is there any product I can buy in Colorado that would take my mind off this garbage fire of a debate?

— daveweigel (@daveweigel) October 29, 2015

The reason Media-bashing works in the GOP primary is also the reason the GOP struggles in national elections — closed information ecosystem

— Dan Pfeiffer (@danpfeiffer) October 29, 2015

TL:DR summary — this debate not nearly as funny as #1 or #2. But just as filled with invidious brain-rattling horseshit.

— Matt Taibbi (@mtaibbi) October 29, 2015

Conventional wisdom: it’s coming down to Rubio & Cruz. Polls: Carson & Trump maintain wide lead.

— David Roberts (@drvox) October 29, 2015

CNBC should be ashamed of how this debate was handled. #GOPDebate

— Reince Priebus (@Reince) October 29, 2015

Note that debate arrangements were organized by RNC w/explicit goal of avoiding a 2012-style circus https://t.co/BbUJt1ikI0

— Alex Burns (@alexburnsNYT) October 29, 2015

All together, now: THIS IS GOOD NEWS FOR JOHN MCCAIN ELLIS BUSH!

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Previous Post: « Later Night Open Thread: HRC Wins the GOP Debate
Next Post: Deductible types »

Reader Interactions

192Comments

  1. 1.

    Lord Baldrick

    October 29, 2015 at 5:35 am

    Chait:

    “Rubio dispatched Bush with a tone so understated and almost pitying it marked the instant and widely-acknowledged death of Bush’s hopes.”

    Ripe. To. Rot.

  2. 2.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    October 29, 2015 at 5:36 am

    CNBC should be ashamed?

    I basically read about the debate only here. I didn’t watch or listen.

    Still, the stupid I picked up up from it hurts my head, which is a bit like getting sunburned in the reflected light of the moon at 2am.

  3. 3.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    October 29, 2015 at 5:42 am

    RNC PR BS’s only problem with the ‘debate’ was it made the GOP field look like asses, that’s not CNBC’s fault.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 5:44 am

    I didn’t think the moderators were great, but they didn’t make the candidates look bad. The candidates are that bad.

  5. 5.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    October 29, 2015 at 5:48 am

    @Baud: Hey, that’s what I said.

  6. 6.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 5:48 am

    We need to start a betting pool for the date Jeb! officially flames out.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 5:49 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    You are a smart man.

  8. 8.

    Mustang Bobby

    October 29, 2015 at 5:50 am

    Didn’t watch it, but based on what I’ve read, it was two hours of balls, bullshit, and poppycock. Of course Ted Cruz is going to blame the mainstream media for the tone of the debate and the race so far; it’s a corollary to what they taught him in law school: when the facts are against you, bang the law. When the law is against you, bang the facts. When both are against you, bang the media.

  9. 9.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    October 29, 2015 at 5:52 am

    @Baud: Even RtR sounded a bit unsure about jeb? last evening.

  10. 10.

    Amir Khalid

    October 29, 2015 at 5:52 am

    The stink of it is that the candidates presented themselves so poorly, and are so full of shit, that none of them merits serious consideration for president. And yet a year from now, one of these mooks is still going to win about half the votes against Hillary or Bernie.

  11. 11.

    Mustang Bobby

    October 29, 2015 at 5:53 am

    @Baud: That little episode between him and Rubio is being hailed as Rubio’s breakout moment; his “You’re no Jack Kennedy.” But did anyone notice that he never answered the charge of being an absentee senator?

  12. 12.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 5:54 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I saw that. The rats are preparing to jump off the sinking ship that is Jeb.

  13. 13.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    October 29, 2015 at 5:54 am

    @Mustang Bobby:

    bang the media.

    I’ve had that thought when the cute KorAm that used to be a reporter for the local station here came on the TV machine.

  14. 14.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 5:56 am

    @Mustang Bobby:

    I missed the first part of the debate, so I didn’t see that exchange.

    My favorite part of the debate was when Fiorina tried to play on every person’s primal urge to see her in cat fight with Hillary.

  15. 15.

    Mustang Bobby

    October 29, 2015 at 5:58 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: You’re incorrigible. I like it.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 5:59 am

    This is the absolute nadir of political discourse.

    Until the next RNC debate.

  17. 17.

    Amir Khalid

    October 29, 2015 at 6:00 am

    @Amir Khalid:
    What I meant to say:

    The stink of it is that yet again the candidates presented themselves so poorly, and are so full of shit, that none of them merits serious consideration for president. And yet a year from now, one of these mooks is still going to win about half the votes against Hillary or Bernie.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 6:01 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    And there will still be people who say both parties are the same.

  19. 19.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 6:02 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Even RtR sounded a bit unsure about jeb? last evening.

    Agreed.

    It has occurred to me that RtR, a/k/a “Racist to Rise” a/k/a “Racist Above,” should have a new moniker, one that’s more consistent with his unflagging “support” of Jeb!, and his ability to spout lies and disinformation, combined with his “the sky (OW!) is not (OW!) falling (OWW!! What is that shit that keeps hitting me in the head?)” idiotic comments.

    Whistler? (Because he keeps whistling past the graveyard of Jeb!’s electoral hopes)
    R.M.? (For Racist Motherfucker, which I guess is technically not 100 percent Bush-related)
    Jeb-Jeb Brinks? (Riffing on comments from last night)

    I’m sure there are much better ones to be had.

  20. 20.

    Amir Khalid

    October 29, 2015 at 6:03 am

    Will the Republican party cancel the remaining presidential debates to spare itself further embarrassment? Were I in its shoes, I would seriously consider that.

  21. 21.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 6:05 am

    @Baud:

    And there will still be people who say both parties are the same.

    Are you saying they’re not?

    Opinions differ. And both sides do it.

  22. 22.

    David Koch

    October 29, 2015 at 6:06 am

    It’s was a laugh watching the wingers attack GOP/Wall Street courtesans Becky Quick and Carl Quintanilla as “liberals”.

    It would be as absurd as the Waffen-SS calling the Gestapo soft on crime.

  23. 23.

    Cermet

    October 29, 2015 at 6:08 am

    @Baud: What? Uh, what do you think just happened? Your, do you mean when he finally, officially, accepts what already happened?
    Well, in any case, the clown car is still full wingnut but hey, the house of repug-a-thug clowns did pass a budget … so, on to the thugs in the senate and baby ryan crying that this shouldn’t be passed as he plays along enough to ensure it does pass.
    Looks like President Obama has yet another major victory proving “lame ducks” can be both effective and powerful leaders.

  24. 24.

    Schlemazel

    October 29, 2015 at 6:08 am

    @SFAW:
    I particularly like JEB-JEB Binks and am pissed at myself for not thinking of it! JEB-JEB Binks, so it is written so it shall be

  25. 25.

    EconWatcher

    October 29, 2015 at 6:08 am

    I’m not entirely sure why, but I’ve really come to loathe the Jebster, even more than these other d-nozzles. I think maybe it’s because, given his total lack of talent, I’m just flummoxed he ever thought he should run for president.

    I mean, really. When he looks in the mirror, what does he see that he thinks is so special? No one else can see it. I doubt even his wife can.

    Jeb, you’re nothing. Without those family connections and money, you’d be struggling to keep a roof over your head.

    Just thank your lucky stars for your good fortune. And sit down and shut up.

  26. 26.

    David Koch

    October 29, 2015 at 6:09 am

    Drudge Poll — who won the debate

    TRUMP……………..56.79%
    CRUZ……………….19.96%
    RUBIO……………….9.67%
    PAUL………………..4.34%
    CARSON……………3.49%
    FIORINA…………….2.06%
    CHRISTIE…………..1.43%
    KASICH……………..1.17%
    HUCKABEE…………0.58%
    ¿JEB?……………….0.51% ◄

    ¿JEB? is toast. Comin in dead fucking last in the polls. Fat cats will cut him off after this debacle. He’ll doesn’t have enough money to last 4 months – his burn rate is too high. He’ll be out before Feb 2nd.

  27. 27.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 6:10 am

    @Cermet:

    Yes, when he officially drops out.

  28. 28.

    Splitting Image

    October 29, 2015 at 6:12 am

    Fifteen flies in search of a windshield.

  29. 29.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 6:12 am

    @David Koch:

    Shorter GOP: I hate Wall Street so much, I’m so not going to slash their taxes as much as I was going to.

  30. 30.

    JPL

    October 29, 2015 at 6:15 am

    @EconWatcher: The other night I was at a gathering for candidates running in a local election. A few people were talking about Jeb and mentioned that he obviously wasn’t interested in winning. If he ends up being the candidate, parts of the south might turn blue.

  31. 31.

    Lord Baldrick

    October 29, 2015 at 6:17 am

    Jeb:/ now listed at 6/1 on Oddschecker, now 3rd behind Rubio, Trump. That’s a YOOGE drop!

    Ripe. To. Rot.

    Rotting before our eyes, like an orange covered with white fuzz.

  32. 32.

    sm*t cl*de

    October 29, 2015 at 6:17 am

    So many forks, so little sticking.

  33. 33.

    JPL

    October 29, 2015 at 6:17 am

    @David Koch: The poll looks like a spoof. How could Trump win?

  34. 34.

    EconWatcher

    October 29, 2015 at 6:17 am

    @David Koch:

    I didn’t watch the debate, but Josh Marshsal thought Kasich hit it out of the park. Apparently, Drudge people aren’t interested.

  35. 35.

    David Koch

    October 29, 2015 at 6:17 am

    Conventional wisdom: it’s coming down to Rubio & Cruz.

    After the first debate the media declared Rubio and Kasich the winners and their numbers went nowhere.

    After the 2nd debate teh media declared Rubio and failed HP executive the winners and their numbers went nowhere.

    I’m betting Rubio’s and Cruz’s numbers go nowhere.

  36. 36.

    David Koch

    October 29, 2015 at 6:20 am

    @EconWatcher: Marshall must be drunk. All the post game commentators on MSNBC said Trump humiliated Kasich. And judging from the clip I saw, he did. Trump called him out for being the managing director of Lehmann Bros and tanking the economy. Kasich was forced to say “I’m proud to have been a banker”.

  37. 37.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 6:24 am

    @EconWatcher:

    I didn’t see the whole thing, but I thought it was Kasich’s worst debate performance.

  38. 38.

    Amir Khalid

    October 29, 2015 at 6:25 am

    @David Koch:
    And besides, with Scotty gone and Jeb circling the drain, people already knew Marco and Ted were the establishment’s next-best choices.

  39. 39.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 29, 2015 at 6:25 am

    @David Koch:

    Kasich was forced to say “I’m proud to have been a banker”.

    In the GOP that’s called ‘bragging’ and Trump is the loser that gave him the opportunity.

  40. 40.

    amk

    October 29, 2015 at 6:25 am

    any bets on dropouts this week?

    I have all the kiddie clown car riders and kasich.

  41. 41.

    amk

    October 29, 2015 at 6:29 am

    @David Koch:

    yup. media fluff ain’t working. mebbe the water boy gets a two point boost for smacking the dumbya3. tops.

  42. 42.

    Schlemazel

    October 29, 2015 at 6:31 am

    @David Koch:
    My guess is Sludge pulled those number from the same orifice he gets most of the stuff he posts. That said, I don’t expect the mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers that are all in on tRump are going to quit him easily. As nasty and ugly and brutal as Carson is he just does not have the pzazz they need to sate their blood lust. I don’t think it is 50% of the GOP but could easily guess 33% or so, not enough to win but enough to cause some damage & hang on a long time.

  43. 43.

    David Koch

    October 29, 2015 at 6:33 am

    @JPL:

    How could Trump win?

    “I’m gonna kick all the mexicans outta the country and build a wall that they will pay for”.

    It gets them off every time. It’s their Farrah Fawcett poster.

  44. 44.

    Mustang Bobby

    October 29, 2015 at 6:34 am

    @amk: I’m thinking Graham will flounce because now that he’s done his Jon Lovitz “I can’t believe I’m losing to this guy” bit with Carson, he can say it’s not worth it.

  45. 45.

    Mustang Bobby

    October 29, 2015 at 6:37 am

    Jeb Lund in the Guardian:

    Not-a-real-Jeb Bush is dead. Perhaps he knows. There is a kind of empty despair at the back of the eyes in photographs of the man now. Events have changed around him in a shattering and profound way for the scion of a political dynasty, a Copernican shift that has so reordered the nature of things as to destroy his cosmology. He’s losing to a reality TV host, a guy who wrote a book that reads like an eighth grader rephrasing the World Book Encyclopedia CD-ROM entry on the constitution and the callow young man he once mentored

    Fried, dried, and laid to the side.

  46. 46.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    October 29, 2015 at 6:39 am

    My Infrared Album

    A note about infrared(IR) photography: Infrared is light outside the visible range. It’s often used in surveillance since you don’t need to bath the area in visible light where you want the camera to observe at night. Infrared photography back in the film days would produce images with white trees and black skies; IR light is reflected off plants and absorbed by the sky.

    Most if not all digital camera sensors are capable of sensing IR. Camera manufactures put a filter, called a hot mirror, between the lens and the sensor to filter out IR. If they didn’t do this pictures would look rather odd. What I’m using to take these photos is a camera(Kodak EasyShare CD80) that has had the hot mirror removed allowing for both visible light and infrared to hit the sensor. This produces a full color image with red plants and a redish tint. I use photoshop to change the color of the plants to a bright white/blue and darken the blue sky to mimic in color what you’d see on a black and white film print.

  47. 47.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 6:39 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    Were I in its shoes, I would seriously consider that.

    Well, sure – except that you are a rational person, and thus are expected to take rational actions.

    The Republic Partei, individually and collectively, is not rational.

  48. 48.

    David Koch

    October 29, 2015 at 6:40 am

    Candidate Speaking Time

    FIORINA…………….10:31
    RUBIO………………..9:49
    TRUMP……………….9:22
    KASICH………………8:42
    CHRISTIE…………….8:32
    CRUZ………………….7:53
    HUCKABEE…………..7:46
    PAUL………………….7:25
    CARSON……………..7:13
    ¿JEB?…………………6:08 ◄

    ¿JEB? = LOSER

  49. 49.

    amk

    October 29, 2015 at 6:42 am

    the whole 24×7 kvetching against media is a neat trick of thugs to make the spineless media into obliging them by attacking even the sane positions of dems.

  50. 50.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 6:43 am

    @Schlemazel:
    Brinks, not Binks, riffing off of dmsilev’s original suggestion

  51. 51.

    David Koch

    October 29, 2015 at 6:44 am

    “Rubio is controlled by his Pac. And he needs a lot of water, on top of everything else! Digya ever see a guy sweat as much as Rubio! I’ve never seen anything like that! [audience laughs] ~ Donald Trump

    Gotta admit, Don Rickles Trump is a primo insult comic.

  52. 52.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 29, 2015 at 6:45 am

    Reince is an utter failure yet still keeps his job. White guy rules.

  53. 53.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 29, 2015 at 6:47 am

    @Mustang Bobby:

    But did anyone notice that he never answered the charge of being an absentee senator?

    It’s not like nobody’s noticed. You can’t even leave a message for Bill Nelson in his Washington office the lines are so busy, but for Rubio you can reach a human right away.

  54. 54.

    Elizabelle

    October 29, 2015 at 6:47 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I love your infrared photography. Keep it coming.

    Are those pics of Glendale, or Pasadena? I heart California. Gonna move back before too, too long.

  55. 55.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 6:49 am

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Reince is an utter failure yet still keeps his job.

    His party seems to be ruling Congress, so I’m not sure “utter failure” is appropriate. As a human being, sure, but not as RNC head.

    Now if you had written that about DWS, I would have agreed.

  56. 56.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    October 29, 2015 at 6:55 am

    @Elizabelle: Glendale. The last three were taken at Americana at Brand.

  57. 57.

    Mustang Bobby

    October 29, 2015 at 6:56 am

    Speaking of kvetching, what has the Morning Joe crew been saying about last night’s din of inequity?

  58. 58.

    Zinsky

    October 29, 2015 at 6:56 am

    The answer to the question, “Why do people who hate the media agree to a debate hosted by the media?” is the same as the answer to the question, “Why do people who hate government, run for government office?” Because they are fucking stupid hypocrites!

  59. 59.

    Elizabelle

    October 29, 2015 at 6:57 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Ta.

  60. 60.

    Donut

    October 29, 2015 at 7:06 am

    @sm*t cl*de:

    Now that Is a funny comment.

  61. 61.

    Joel

    October 29, 2015 at 7:19 am

    @David Koch: Well, Rubio had a bounce after debate one, and FIorina had a bounce after debate two, but neither got within spitting distance of Trump.

  62. 62.

    amk

    October 29, 2015 at 7:22 am

    LOLGOP ‏@LOLGOP 11m11 minutes ago

    GOP: Why isn’t Obama standing up to ISIS?

    GOP: CNBC is too mean!!!!!!!

    25 retweets 27 favorites

  63. 63.

    NorthLeft12

    October 29, 2015 at 7:38 am

    Did not watch the debates at all, but can someone here give an example of a tough/gotcha question that was asked of these potential presidents?

    And from what I am understanding, the GOP is not complaining about stupid questions, only unfair and difficult questions.

  64. 64.

    raven

    October 29, 2015 at 7:46 am

    @NorthLeft12: What do you think of online gambling?

  65. 65.

    Jeffro

    October 29, 2015 at 7:50 am

    @NorthLeft12:

    And from what I am understanding, the GOP is not complaining about stupid questions, only unfair and difficult questions.

    Well, it’s unfair to ask them to operate in a reality-based world, that’s for sure. In their world, we can burn all the carbon we want w/ no consequences, cut taxes to zero (on the wealthy, that is) and see revenues rise to infinity, and basically do without a functioning government while also somehow fighting ISIS and economically smashing China.

  66. 66.

    JPL

    October 29, 2015 at 7:51 am

    @raven: Did you happen to watch Joe? If you did, would you share what he thought.

  67. 67.

    raven

    October 29, 2015 at 7:53 am

    @JPL: He though Rubio totally LIED!!!

  68. 68.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 7:55 am

    @raven:

    About what?

  69. 69.

    raven

    October 29, 2015 at 7:57 am

    @Baud: His financials . Joe and Steele also just railed about the fucking MSM and talked abut how the pukes are sooo fucked over. God wha a bunch of whiny bitches. Oh yea, Nicole said it’s the moderators job to go after the liars on their lies and that Marco was wonderful.

  70. 70.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 7:59 am

    @raven:

    Funny.

  71. 71.

    debbie

    October 29, 2015 at 8:06 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’ve been wondering about your IR pictures and how they were taken. Very cool. I used to mess with using Sebattier (sp?) back in the film days.

  72. 72.

    debbie

    October 29, 2015 at 8:11 am

    @NorthLeft12:

    From what I’ve heard this morning, the issue was that they asked unimportant questions, like about fantasy football, when ISIS IS BREAKING DOWN OUR FRONT DOORS!!! I wish the moderators would have responded by saying they’re only asking about stuff that someone’s actually said.

  73. 73.

    bystander

    October 29, 2015 at 8:12 am

    I’m loving how the rwns are all complaining about CNBC. On top of their own fresh disaster, I love watching the collateral damage. Frank Luntz is apoplectic.

  74. 74.

    bemused

    October 29, 2015 at 8:14 am

    Republicans alternately plaintively asking what the hell has happened to their party and complaining about lousy media coverage of their lousy candidates.

    Oh brother, just heard Rubio tell George Snuffy that he was the most knowledgeable on foreign policy.

  75. 75.

    amk

    October 29, 2015 at 8:17 am

    Matt Ford ‏@fordm 8h8 hours ago

    CANDIDATE: [something ridiculous]

    MEDIA: Sir, did you really mean this ridiculous thing you said?

    CANDIDATE: The media’s at it again

    239 retweets 282 favorites

  76. 76.

    Gimlet

    October 29, 2015 at 8:19 am

    Has Fox consulted with their “Body Language Expert” to give us more insight into the candidates?

  77. 77.

    lol

    October 29, 2015 at 8:20 am

    Kasich had a great rant about how unrealistic the tax plans were and in response, Trump beat him up, took his lunch money and stuffed him in a locker.

  78. 78.

    Gimlet

    October 29, 2015 at 8:21 am

    @debbie:

    No important questions the candidate’s favorite saint or Bible passage?

  79. 79.

    bystander

    October 29, 2015 at 8:23 am

    Rubio, when asked about his atrocious attendance record in the Senate, said essentially, “Well, Obama did the same thing. Kerry did the same thing.”

    Hey, I’m emulating the guys I find to be the most reprehensible anti-American traitors there could be. Isn’t “heinous” an anagram for “Hussein”?

  80. 80.

    debbie

    October 29, 2015 at 8:29 am

    @Gimlet:

    Heaven forfend!

  81. 81.

    beltane

    October 29, 2015 at 8:30 am

    @David Koch: The media and even many people here underestimate Donald Trump’s lasting appeal to Republican voters. It was pointed out that Trump does not speak in complete sentences; he speaks like Tarzan. Well, that’s how these people talk and think. Trump is a savvy performer who knows just how to push the buttons in the brains of reptilian Republican primary voters.

  82. 82.

    beltane

    October 29, 2015 at 8:32 am

    @bystander: Frank Luntzmight want to lay low to avoid having Trump give him another wedgie.

  83. 83.

    Kay

    October 29, 2015 at 8:33 am

    @lol:

    It was so carefully rehearsed yet so ineffective. He has been loudly broadcasting for a week that he intended to go on a spontaneous rant. He even did a test run. So much for “preparation wins debates”.

  84. 84.

    Bobby Thomson

    October 29, 2015 at 8:36 am

    @JPL: Internet freepable poll. Same as the ones Sanders supporters gamed.

  85. 85.

    debbie

    October 29, 2015 at 8:37 am

    @Kay:

    Yet, but Trump got so far into Kasich’s head that he blurted out his pride in being a banker, which was pretty amazing. All Kasich’s ever said about that was that he was a little (unimportant) guy in a two-guy office.

  86. 86.

    Bobby Thomson

    October 29, 2015 at 8:40 am

    @David Koch: that’s weird. Marshall isn’t exactly known for sticking his neck out.

  87. 87.

    Villago Delenda Est

    October 29, 2015 at 8:40 am

    Rinse Prebus is a waste of skin.

  88. 88.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 8:42 am

    @Kay:

    My preplanned outrage was completely sincere.

  89. 89.

    Gimlet

    October 29, 2015 at 8:43 am

    Are any of them going down to the kiddies table or being promoted?

  90. 90.

    rikyrah

    October 29, 2015 at 8:45 am

    Good Morning, Everyone :)

  91. 91.

    Gimlet

    October 29, 2015 at 8:47 am

    I think there should be a third panel or “debate” in the evening where the big donors speak directly to the public instead of through proxies.

  92. 92.

    MomSense

    October 29, 2015 at 8:48 am

    Apparently the audience for these Republican candidates is inhabiting a completely different universe from the one the rest of us experience. When the candidates go on and on about how bad things are now and how they want to restore whatever it is they liked about those storied pre-Obama days, what are they talking about?

  93. 93.

    Baud

    October 29, 2015 at 8:49 am

    @MomSense:

    Privilege.

  94. 94.

    MomSense

    October 29, 2015 at 8:50 am

    @Kay:

    Clearly Kasich is not used to being questioned or held accountable. He really wasn’t prepared for any push back. Isn’t that a bit odd? He was appearing at a debate with a bunch of other candidates whose mission was to get rid of their competition.

  95. 95.

    MomSense

    October 29, 2015 at 8:51 am

    @Baud:

    wow.

  96. 96.

    bemused

    October 29, 2015 at 8:54 am

    @bystander:

    What is Luntz freaking out about now?

    Molly Ball did a piece on Luntz after 2012 election. Luntz was profoundly depressed and even considering taking a break from political consulting. He was thinking Hollywood instead of DC, lol. Why the depression wasn’t so clear but Luntz was shaken by Romney’s defeat saying the American people scared him, too much yelling, they were so angry, so contentious, so divided. He still firmly has a Morning Joe panel personal responsibility/no hand outs ideology but blamed Obama for ruining the electorate, setting Americans at each others’ throats, creating class divisions. Luntz said, “People are very angry, not because we have not given them enough but because we have given them too much”.

    Republicans including Luntz never take any personal responsibility for Americans being so scarily angry.

  97. 97.

    debbie

    October 29, 2015 at 8:58 am

    @bemused:

    He’s a drama queen, nothing more. You notice he roused himself back into business after 2012.

  98. 98.

    Villago Delenda Est

    October 29, 2015 at 9:01 am

    @bemused: When you’re the problem, it’s difficult to find a solution that ignores that you’re the problem.

  99. 99.

    PaulW

    October 29, 2015 at 9:04 am

    I woke up this morning to find out my librarian blog has somehow offended the Canadians.

    Turns out I got dragged into a library war between Kansas City and Toronto over the Royals vs. Blue Jays series.

    WHY, GOD WHY?

    I’m a Rays fan for God’s sake, eh?

    /cries

  100. 100.

    PaulW

    October 29, 2015 at 9:07 am

    Dear Republican National Committee:

    YOU’RE THE ONES WHO ARRANGED THIS DEBATE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    So stop complaining about the poor service you got, because guess what the debate is supposed to be more about your candidates’ ability to perform to the national audience rather than whining about what questions you get and how your fee-fees got hurt.

  101. 101.

    Esme's Mom

    October 29, 2015 at 9:20 am

    @beltane:

    He speaks like Tarzan.

    I’m loving this thread, including this.

  102. 102.

    amk

    October 29, 2015 at 9:21 am

    LOLGOP ‏@LOLGOP 6m6 minutes ago

    The guys defending throwing a teenage girl in a chair across a room think CNBC shouldn’t be so mean to conservatives.

    95 retweets 73 favorites

  103. 103.

    bystander

    October 29, 2015 at 9:24 am

    @bemused:

    He was thinking Hollywood instead of DC, lol.

    Looking for another group of talent-free, addlepated prostitutes to make a buck off, I guess. In the movie, Luntz can be played by that guy in the water purifier commercials. The one who yells every line while jumping up and down.

  104. 104.

    bemused

    October 29, 2015 at 9:24 am

    @debbie:

    They are all drama queens.

    No, it didn’t take him long to get back in the game. His message manipulations have worked beautifully for so long, it threw him off when the focus groups didn’t fall into line.

    Luntz said Cruz line, Don’t trust the media, went through the roof with focus group so he has happily found his purpose again.

  105. 105.

    Gimlet

    October 29, 2015 at 9:28 am

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/profile/caitlinmacneal

    October 29, 2015, 8:11 AM EDT

    Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) on Thursday tore into the moderators at the CNBC Republican presidential debate, arguing that GOP candidates will never be treated fairly on the debate stage.

    “They want us to kill each other,” he said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.” “The moderators just didn’t do their job last night in a number of areas. Not only were the questions snarky and divisive and non-substantive, they were just biased. The questions were biased. But on top of that, they didn’t do their job in terms of controlling the debate either. And it became somewhat of a free-for-all that everybody had to jump in when they could jump in.”

  106. 106.

    rikyrah

    October 29, 2015 at 9:28 am

    ok, while crappy movies have been coming out, week after week….now, they gonna pit The Peanuts Movie vs. SPECTRE on November 6th?

    what da hail?

  107. 107.

    bemused

    October 29, 2015 at 9:28 am

    @beltane:

    Tarzan Trump is perfect. I will never be able to hear Trump again without visualizing Tarzan, in suit though, not loin cloth.

  108. 108.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 9:29 am

    @beltane:

    he speaks like Tarzan.

    Actually, I believe the real Tarzan (as in, the Edgar Rice Burroughs version) spoke more articulately than Trump, and in French.

    The Hollywood version, not so much.

  109. 109.

    Patrick

    October 29, 2015 at 9:30 am

    @bemused:

    He still firmly has a Morning Joe panel personal responsibility/no hand outs ideology but blamed Obama for ruining the electorate, setting Americans at each others’ throats, creating class divisions.

    Of course – we were so united when George W Bush was president.

  110. 110.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 9:33 am

    @Gimlet:

    “Former” Governor? Did Trenton have a coup, and I missed it?

  111. 111.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 9:35 am

    @Patrick:

    Of course – we were so united when George W Bush was president.

    Well, sure. It’s a lot easier to unite behind hatred of browns/Muslims, when you don’t have one as President.

  112. 112.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 9:37 am

    @Gimlet:

    Are any of them going down to the kiddies table or being promoted?

    Well, Jeb-Jeb Brinks might get put at the kiddie table, unless Poppy and Bar force Rancid to do otherwise.

  113. 113.

    bemused

    October 29, 2015 at 9:41 am

    @Patrick:

    Right, he said himself he was a uniter, not a divider and didn’t believe in the politics of one group against against another, heh, heh.

  114. 114.

    Hoodie

    October 29, 2015 at 9:45 am

    I saw nothing that will dislodge Trump. Carson seems positioned for a fall the more exposure he gets. Rubio’s only accomplishment is he got the honor of putting the shiv in Jeb! Trump will make quick work of him once Jeb! goes off to do all those cool things he’s been putting off, like building that shelf in his mancave to hold collectibles from his brief stint as governor. Otherwise, Rubio can’t find his ass with both hands. All Trump has to do is start talking about how Marco’s a kept man for a shady S Florida car dealer.

    Cruz did well in his creepy way, and will hang around like a mortician waiting for Trump to die. He will likely be disappointed, but if the Donald stalls or loses interest, Cruz can have the honor of being the 21st century’s Barry Goldwater. It was amusing watching Steele and some other GOP hack on Tweety’s talking about Cruz being Goldwater. After making the initial observation, they realized the import of what they were saying and reflexively began to rationalize how great Goldwater’s candidacy was for the GOP, glossing over the fact that Barry was crushed by painting him as an extremist, and that the Dems were undone by Johnson’s debacle in Viet Nam, not the ascendancy of conservatives in the GOP.

    Come to think of it, Donald Trump is actually the GOP’s best hope right now. He’s the right amount of racism coupled with assurances that he won’t cut Medicare or Social Security. That’s similar to Reagan.

  115. 115.

    rikyrah

    October 29, 2015 at 9:45 am

    I don’t know how to respond to this. But, I pray he gets the help he needs.

    ……………………….

    Man Calls 911, Turns In Drugs After Hearing President Obama’s Speech
    Wed 9:14 PM, Oct 28, 2015
    By: WSAZ News Staff

    CROSS LANES, W.Va. (WSAZ) — Like many West Virginians, a man from Cross Lanes watched President Obama address the drug addiction problem during his visit to Charleston on Oct. 21.

    Later that day, he called 911 and said he needed help for a drug addiction and asked that deputies be sent to his home.

    The Kanawha County Sheriff’s Office released details of the incident Wednesday in a release that ended with, “We applaud this person’s self-initiated efforts and wish him well in his recovery.”

    The Sheriff’s Office said after repeated calls back from 911 operators that day, their deputies went to the man’s home. They said he put his hands on the wall and said he needed help.

    The man, in his mid-30s, then showed Deputy J.A. Smith a cooler full of drugs that included included digital scales, 16 Suboxone packs and patches, marijuana, 19 grams of ecstasy and 158 pain pills.

    The man admitted he was a heavy drug user, had watched the President’sspeech and wanted to live a drug-free life for his mother.

    The Sheriff’s Department said Wednesday that no charges will be filed against the man. Instead, he was taken by ambulance to a treatment center where he voluntarily entered a drug-addiction rehabilitation program.

    They did not release his name or address.

    http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/Man-Calls-911-To-Voluntarily-Check-Into-Drug-Rehab-338082272.html

  116. 116.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 29, 2015 at 9:49 am

    @PaulW: I didn’t know librarians were so mean!

  117. 117.

    rikyrah

    October 29, 2015 at 9:50 am

    ForUS50
    ‏@FORUS50
    Ben Carson’s Pathetic Attempt To Separate Himself From Mannatech’s Snake Oil Claims https://shar.es/15mmBu #GOPdebate

  118. 118.

    Amir Khalid

    October 29, 2015 at 9:50 am

    @SFAW:
    It could conceivably be a dig at how much time he’s spending away from his day job. I hear that some candidates — well, this one guy from Florida, anyway — are getting stick for that.

  119. 119.

    dmsilev

    October 29, 2015 at 9:54 am

    @bemused: At the rate the GOP field is going, I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to expect one of them to show up in a loincloth at the next debate.

    That’s probably Bush’s next rebranding.

  120. 120.

    bemused

    October 29, 2015 at 10:02 am

    @dmsilev:

    If they thought wearing loincloths would get them more votes, they’d probably do it. Come to think of it, there is a significant amount of Republican voters that would love it. We are living the movie Idiocracy.

  121. 121.

    Amir Khalid

    October 29, 2015 at 10:03 am

    @dmsilev:
    I hope not. I can’t think of even one who has the abs for it.

  122. 122.

    amk

    October 29, 2015 at 10:05 am

    @dmsilev:

    jebbie proudly tweeted his monogrammed ‘debate’ shoes. Will his loin cloth also be monogrammed?

  123. 123.

    Paul in KY

    October 29, 2015 at 10:08 am

    @Mustang Bobby: I think his answer was : ‘If it was good enough for Maverick McCain, it’s good enough for me’.

  124. 124.

    bemused

    October 29, 2015 at 10:10 am

    A woman at a Trump rally said she couldn’t wait to have Melania as first lady who would bring class to the WH. Trump/Tarzan and Melania/Jane. Perfect.

  125. 125.

    Hoodie

    October 29, 2015 at 10:12 am

    @dmsilev: Trump would simply bring some cheerleaders with yooge racks. Of course, their g-strings would be tremendously classy.

  126. 126.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 10:13 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    I hope not. I can’t think of even one who has the abs for it.

    They’ll probably try to Photoshop their head(s) onto the body of The-Only-True-Manly-Man-Who-Leads-A-World-Power-and-Is-Not-a-Candy-Ass-“Community Organizer”-Oh-No-He-Isn’t-and-We-Have-The-Hots-For-Him-But-In-A-Manly-Way.

    They probably will NOT figure out that the Photoshopped Putin image is not what the TV audiences will actually see.

  127. 127.

    Paul in KY

    October 29, 2015 at 10:16 am

    @bemused: I would love Mr. Luntz to be given 3 days with Ramsey Bolton.

  128. 128.

    bemused

    October 29, 2015 at 10:18 am

    @Paul in KY:

    I had no idea who that was. Not a GOT watcher.

  129. 129.

    Paul in KY

    October 29, 2015 at 10:19 am

    @rikyrah: I hope he gets off the drugs & that he gets some sort of suspended sentence.

  130. 130.

    Bobby Thomson

    October 29, 2015 at 10:19 am

    @rikyrah: does anyone really expect the Peanuts movie to be anything more than an extended ad for merchandise right before Christmas? Even if Schultz were still alive my expectations would be low.

  131. 131.

    Paul in KY

    October 29, 2015 at 10:20 am

    @bemused: ‘Melania’ is his wife’s name?! Sounds like a country in Risk.

  132. 132.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 29, 2015 at 10:21 am

    @Amir Khalid: Seen on Twitter a couple of days ago: “Chris Christie will be making a rare appearance in New Jersey on Thursday to mark the 3rd anniversary of hurricane Sandy.”

  133. 133.

    Paul in KY

    October 29, 2015 at 10:21 am

    @bemused: How do you like my wish now?

  134. 134.

    Bobby Thomson

    October 29, 2015 at 10:22 am

    @rikyrah: wow.

  135. 135.

    bystander

    October 29, 2015 at 10:24 am

    Best choice of the morning: Whether to watch Moanin’ Joe or Tod Browning’s Freaks on TCM. No irony intended.

    Right now it’s Browning’s Devil Doll, followed by one of Frank Lloyd Wright’s best performances, as Ennis House posing as the Haunted House exteriors, in The House on Haunted Hill.

  136. 136.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 10:29 am

    @Paul in KY:

    How do you like my wish now?

    A little over the top.

    As with bemused, I had to look him up, too. I wouldn’t wish him on anybody except the ISIS crowd.

  137. 137.

    benw

    October 29, 2015 at 10:32 am

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    I didn’t know librarians were so mean!

    You’ve obviously never returned a book late. :)

  138. 138.

    amk

    October 29, 2015 at 10:32 am

    dana milbank

    Trump, the fading front-runner, was preemptively complaining about the way CNBC would conduct the debate. He had previously complained that the debates were too long and had too many people.

    Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) has been complaining that the Senate is too “frustrating” for him to go to the trouble of showing up. Jeb Bush, noting other “cool things” he could do, has been complaining that the campaign is too nasty. Ohio Gov. John Kasich complained about his rivals, saying “I’ve about had it with these people.”

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) complained that his own campaign was forcing him to do “dumbass” live-streaming of his activities. And Trump just complained that “evangelicals let me down” in Iowa. The campaigns even complained about the size and quality of their holding rooms at the debate facility.

    The Republicans seem to be testing a strategy of winning by whining.

  139. 139.

    Paul in KY

    October 29, 2015 at 10:37 am

    @SFAW: Frank Luntz has done more damage to this country than those pathetic ISIS weirdos have ever done or will do (IMO).

  140. 140.

    Cervantes

    October 29, 2015 at 10:38 am

    Clara Jeffery:

    This is the absolute nadir of political discourse. Nothing said in this whole debate but stupid. And some outright lies.

    Maybe Ms. Jeffery does not know her history; even recent history.

    The “debate” was idiotic, naturally — but, for one thing, no one died as a result of it.

    Hyperbole is fine, up to a point.

  141. 141.

    gvg

    October 29, 2015 at 10:42 am

    I have just caught up on some older threads and the dead thread about Jeb suppressing minority votes caught my eye. It gave the story of a black man going to a hearing to get his voting rights restored with Jeb and how Jeb dismissed him. I read the story and the statistics which are not totally new to me as a Floridian and I googled the link to sign a petition to get their rights back into Law not whim BUT the Florida petition to restore voting rights at ACLU is paired with an amendment to term limit most state offices which I am against based on how it’s worked in other states. It doesn’t have anything to do with the title of the amendment nor the top 1/2 of the petition. I would sign it if it just stuck with voting rights. I am pretty annoyed. I looked for alternative petitions but this is apparently the only one out there even though other groups are presenting it. I guess I need to complain to the ACLU and apparently Move on.
    Anyone know a group willing to stick to the point? Move on’s Petition also said I was authorizing them to send me emails…….NO.

  142. 142.

    Amir Khalid

    October 29, 2015 at 10:43 am

    @Cervantes:
    Come to think if it, there is probably no absolute nadir of public discourse.

  143. 143.

    bemused

    October 29, 2015 at 10:43 am

    @Paul in KY:

    Melania was born in Slovenia.

  144. 144.

    Paul in KY

    October 29, 2015 at 10:45 am

    @bemused: Thank youia!

  145. 145.

    bemused

    October 29, 2015 at 10:48 am

    @Paul in KY:

    I did know GOT was very violent which is the reason I didn’t watch it so I didn’t read any further. I didn’t want to know. I have lousy enough sleeping patterns as it is.

  146. 146.

    ThresherK

    October 29, 2015 at 10:49 am

    Megan McArdle is squatting over the corpse of WBUR’s “On Point” and letting fly.

    They actually invited her there as a guest, so they pretty much deserve it. Somehow I think this is plumbing a new depth, however.

    For balance, there’s Rachel Smookin from CNN (specialty: Politics) and Rana Foroohar from Time (specialty: Business). But not a damned fact-checker in sight.

  147. 147.

    mdblanche

    October 29, 2015 at 10:50 am

    @Gimlet: If Jeb:( is looking for a new favorite saint, I would suggest the patron saint of losers, who is none other than Saint Chad.

  148. 148.

    bemused

    October 29, 2015 at 10:50 am

    @amk:

    GOP: Winning By Whining should be a bumper sticker.

  149. 149.

    Jeffro

    October 29, 2015 at 10:51 am

    Even over at TPM: Rubio and Cruz, Rubio and Cruz, guess whose night it was, Rubio and Cruz.

    I think in the Veepstakes, Christie is looking more likely than Kaisch at this point.

  150. 150.

    Cervantes

    October 29, 2015 at 10:52 am

    @ThresherK:

    Thanks for that image. You’re a real pal.

  151. 151.

    Princess

    October 29, 2015 at 10:53 am

    The GOP better hope that Trump doesn’t win the nomination. There is no way that man has the energy for a grueling general election campaign. He’ll crumple against Hillary. Carson would be worse.

    Romney had such a well-done dye job it concealed his age, but I think part of the reason he couldn’t fight Obama was that he was just too pooped at the end. He couldn’t do debate prep and stump speeches and fundraising and all that travelling.

    I think the only ones who actually have the health and energy to carry through a full-fledged election campaign are Cruz, Rubio, or Fiorina.

  152. 152.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 29, 2015 at 10:56 am

    @Jeffro: I think in the Veepstakes, Christie is looking more likely

    That would be cool. About time Spiro Agnew got a run for his money.

  153. 153.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 10:59 am

    @Paul in KY:

    Frank Luntz has done more damage to this country than those pathetic ISIS weirdos have ever done or will do (IMO).

    I don’t really disagree. I’d put Howard Jarvis and Grover Norquist up there as well, with respect to non-elected persons succeeding re: trying to destroy the country.

    But Ramsay Bolton’s sadism and psychopathy is more appropriate for dealing with ISIS. Michael Corleone (esp. his end-of-Godfather-I tactics) might be a more appropriate choice for Luntz et al.

    Although it might be interesting to start calling Luntz “Reek.” (Disclaimer: I don’t watch GoT, any GoT-related comments come from reading its Wiki.)

  154. 154.

    Cervantes

    October 29, 2015 at 10:59 am

    @Princess:

    Romney had such a well-done dye job it concealed his age, but I think part of the reason he couldn’t fight Obama was that he was just too pooped at the end. He couldn’t do debate prep and stump speeches and fundraising and all that travelling.

    I think the only ones who actually have the health and energy to carry through a full-fledged election campaign are Cruz, Rubio, or Fiorina.

    Maybe you know this: Hillary Clinton is about as old as Mitt Romney.

  155. 155.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 11:03 am

    @Cervantes:

    No, she’s MUCH, MUCH older. She’s even older than Reagan was after he left office! Older than Strom Thurmond! She’s like 75 years older than Carleton Sneed Fiorina.

    Or so Fox tells me.

  156. 156.

    NonyNony

    October 29, 2015 at 11:05 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    Come to think if it, there is probably no absolute nadir of public discourse.

    We’ll get to the nadir of public discourse at the same time we achieve peak wingnut.

  157. 157.

    Amir Khalid

    October 29, 2015 at 11:05 am

    @Cervantes:
    Did you see the Benghazi Commission hearing last week, in which Hillary held up better under 11 hours of largely hostile questioning than her questioners did? Whatever one might suspect about Mitt Romney’s stamina, I don’t think there’s any reason to fear for hers.

  158. 158.

    Bubblegum Tate

    October 29, 2015 at 11:09 am

    Jebus, even Michelle Malkin is telling Obvious Anagram to shut his cakehole about “CNBC did us wrong!”

    But, you know, I’m sure spending all your time crying about the media and the liberal bias of facts is the best way to show what a strong leader you are.

  159. 159.

    Paul in KY

    October 29, 2015 at 11:12 am

    @SFAW: I’m fine with a ‘Fredo’ solution to Luntz & Norquist. Calling either of them Reek would be apropos (IMO).

  160. 160.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 11:15 am

    @Bubblegum Tate:

    But, you know, I’m sure spending all your time crying about the media and the liberal bias of facts is the best way to show what a strong leader you are.

    Maybe not, but working the refs has gotten the Grand Old Treason Party pretty far.

  161. 161.

    Princess

    October 29, 2015 at 11:16 am

    @Cervantes: I do know this. Age matters but it is more than just a number.

    Sanders also seems to have more energy than 90% of the GOP field, and he’s the oldest candidate, right?

  162. 162.

    debbie

    October 29, 2015 at 11:18 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    RWNJs are clamoring for a one-on-one debate between Carly and Hillary. They’re sure Carly will tear Hillary limb from limb and expose her as the lying liaress she is.

    I think otherwise. I’d bet the ranch that the first words out of Hillary’s mouth will be a litany of Carly’s own lies about Planned Parenthood, HP, her step-daughter, and on and on.

    I hope the stage lighting is exceptional. I know they’ll be there, but it will be tough discerning any tears on Carly’s sourpuss face.

  163. 163.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 11:18 am

    @Paul in KY:

    Calling either of them Reek would be apropos

    There’s probably a joke to be made about letting their Reek flag fly. Of course, that flag would have certain slightly-egg-shaped anatomical parts of theirs attached to it.

    I’d be OK with that.

  164. 164.

    NonyNony

    October 29, 2015 at 11:18 am

    @Princess:

    Romney had such a well-done dye job it concealed his age, but I think part of the reason he couldn’t fight Obama was that he was just too pooped at the end. He couldn’t do debate prep and stump speeches and fundraising and all that travelling.

    I think you’re mistaking “old” for something else. Romney lived a life of privilege and rarely had to face adversity. His gubernatorial campaign is probably the most he’d ever been challenged in his life. Because of that he really didn’t know how to respond to real challenges – even as CEO of Bain Capital his powerpoint presentations and gladhanding didn’t really have to be all that great given that he was sitting on a big pile of money. Money talks, after all, and will do most of the talking when it comes to attracting investors. So of course he wasn’t very good at facing hard challenges – he had no practice. That’s what happens when you get everything you want handed to you.

    Jeb seems to be in this same boat. Another reason that he’s not winning over Republican voters – they’re all sure he won’t be able to go the distance and will wimp out on them. (Him blaming his low energy on his paleo diet is hilarious, but won’t win him any votes.)

  165. 165.

    PaulW

    October 29, 2015 at 11:19 am

    it’s not just librarians, it’s CANADIAN LIBRARIANS.

    Man, I really stirred up a hornet’s nest here eh?

  166. 166.

    Cervantes

    October 29, 2015 at 11:24 am

    @NonyNony:

    [Romney’s] gubernatorial campaign is probably the most he’d ever been challenged in his life.

    Not sure about that. There was that Senate campaign where he challenged a seemingly vulnerable Ted Kennedy — and got his head handed to him.

    The gubernatorial campaign was a cake-walk by comparison.

  167. 167.

    Amir Khalid

    October 29, 2015 at 11:25 am

    @debbie:
    Carly would not win that debate. Not if held to the truth.

  168. 168.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 11:28 am

    @NonyNony:

    Romney lived a life of privilege and rarely had to face adversity.

    Do you HATE Romney so much that you now have to resort to lies about him, just to make a point?

    You’ve probably forgotten that, when he and Ann were just starting out, he had to sell some of the stock in his trust fund (I believe it was), just to be able to afford the basics, like dinner at Locke-Ober or Cafe Budapest. (I don’t think Maison Robert was open for business yet.)

    How DARE you try to claim that stuff like that was not adversity!

    Hater.

  169. 169.

    Cervantes

    October 29, 2015 at 11:29 am

    @Princess:

    Age matters but it is more than just a number.

    When you put it that way, I can hardly disagree!

  170. 170.

    Another Holocene Human

    October 29, 2015 at 11:31 am

    @SFAW: Michael Steele was RNC head when the Republicans took Congress and took all those state leges so they could gerrymander themselves into the permanent ruling party.

  171. 171.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 11:34 am

    @Cervantes:

    The gubernatorial campaign was a cake-walk by comparison.

    Especially after his consigliere “persuaded” the sitting Governor not to run.

  172. 172.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 11:37 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    Not if held to the truth.

    Well, aren’t you the cutest thing? Would you like to hear a story about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny? Come sit on Daddy’s lap (in a purely platonic way, of course), we’ll read you some Brothers Grimm.

  173. 173.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 11:39 am

    @Another Holocene Human:
    They still were far more successful in 2014 than they had any right to be, including in the Senate, which is not really affected by gerrymandering.

  174. 174.

    Cervantes

    October 29, 2015 at 11:42 am

    @SFAW:

    (I don’t think Maison Robert was open for business yet.)

    Yes, it was.

    (And yes, my clarification is most certainly an attack on you, your up-bringing, your ancestry, and your pets — so when you react in your all-too-usual fashion, this time it will be justified!)

  175. 175.

    Omnes Omnibus

    October 29, 2015 at 11:43 am

    @SFAW: The Senate was gerrymandered from its inception.

  176. 176.

    NonyNony

    October 29, 2015 at 11:46 am

    @Cervantes:

    There was that Senate campaign where he challenged a seemingly vulnerable Ted Kennedy — and got his head handed to him.

    I can’t believe I forgot that. You are correct – that campaign probably was the most challenging thing he’d ever done in his life. And he was terrible at it. The victorious run for governor was his most challenging accomplishment.

  177. 177.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 29, 2015 at 11:50 am

    @Cervantes: Upbringing gets a hyphen now? I can’t keep up.

  178. 178.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 11:51 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The Senate was gerrymandered from its inception.

    Yeah, so? Was either Steele or Priebus heading the RNC at that time?

  179. 179.

    Cervantes

    October 29, 2015 at 11:55 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Bqhatevwr.

  180. 180.

    Omnes Omnibus

    October 29, 2015 at 11:55 am

    @SFAW: Dude, you said the Senate was less affected by gerrymandering than the House. I pointed out that it was already gerrymandered. That is all. I wasn’t making a point about Steele or Reibus.

  181. 181.

    Cervantes

    October 29, 2015 at 11:56 am

    @NonyNony:

    And he was terrible at it.

    And it was a pleasure to behold.

  182. 182.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 11:59 am

    @Cervantes:

    OK, let’s get the boilerplate shit out of the way first:

    (And yes, my clarification is most certainly an attack on you, your up-bringing, your ancestry, and your pets — so when you react in your all-too-usual fashion, this time it will be justified!)

    Aren’t you precious?

    Now, onto the actual substance:
    I had (incorrectly, it seems) assumed that RMoney started in Boston before Maison Robert opened, but I guess I was wrong. (Google – how do it work?)

    So, thanks for finding the flaw in my comment, said flaw thus completely negating the point (so to speak) of said comment.

  183. 183.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Dude, my comment was in response to the comment re: Steele being in charge when the House was gerrymandered into its Rethugs-forever configuration.

    Facts sometimes have context.

  184. 184.

    Omnes Omnibus

    October 29, 2015 at 12:08 pm

    @SFAW: Yes, facts sometimes have context. The fact that the Senate came pre-gerrymandered has some bearing on the validity of using it as an example here. YMMV and seems to do so.

  185. 185.

    Cervantes

    October 29, 2015 at 12:14 pm

    @SFAW:

    Well, you’re certainly predictable dependable!

    Here’s something to ponder: if I comment on (or anyone else comments on) one part of what you say, it’s not necessarily meant to take away from the rest of what you say. It’s just a comment, maybe nothing more than an … aside!

    Relax a little. Kick your shoes off.

  186. 186.

    Princess

    October 29, 2015 at 12:17 pm

    @NonyNony: Whatever the reason, the result was the same. He didn’t have the stamina, and most of the GOP field this year doesn’t have it either.

  187. 187.

    SFAW

    October 29, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    @Cervantes:
    Well, it’s certainly gratifying to see that your pedantry has expanded from our own little pas de deux

    But, as Scotty Brown might say, “whatevah.”

    And I will doubtless ponder your words of wisdom.

    Be that as it may, I was “glad” to learn/re-learn re: Mitt’s and Ann’s timeline. Scare quotes because I’m not sure that knowing more about them is a good thing. But, knowledge is good, so who am I to argue?

  188. 188.

    Cervantes

    October 29, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    @Princess:

    Whatever the reason, the result was the same. He didn’t have the stamina

    You keep saying this sort of thing, people are liable to misunderstand!

    You wouldn’t be suggesting, for example, that Obama won primarily because he had more of this … stamina thing, would you?

    Earlier you wrote:

    Romney had such a well-done dye job it concealed his age, but I think part of the reason he couldn’t fight Obama was that he was just too pooped at the end. He couldn’t do debate prep and stump speeches and fundraising and all that travelling.

    Romney’s debate prep wasn’t all that bad; most people would tell you he won the first debate.

    Nor did his campaign lack for funds — did it?

    Yes, I didn’t like his stump speeches, but because of their content.

    Did he travel less than Obama did? (I don’t recall.)

    Among all the reasons for Romney’s loss, where would you rank his age or lack of stamina?

    Among all the reasons for Obama’s victory, where would you rank his strapping youthfulness and excess of stamina?

  189. 189.

    Cervantes

    October 29, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    @SFAW:

    But, knowledge is good, so who am I to argue?

    I don’t know but, whatever you do, do not share your knowledge in an aside. Death at ten paces will surely follow.

  190. 190.

    WaterGirl

    October 29, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    @debbie:

    RWNJs are clamoring for a one-on-one debate between Carly and Hillary.

    Seriously? That’s about as insulting as having the 2 black candidates debate one another. Or having the two hispanic candidates debate one another. As if those things matter. Or as if there can be only one of “those” candidates, so one has to knock the other one out. Ugh.

  191. 191.

    Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA

    October 29, 2015 at 1:23 pm

    @rikyrah: Wow.

  192. 192.

    dogwood

    October 29, 2015 at 1:36 pm

    Romney had lots of problems as a candidate, but age and stamina weren’t among them.

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