BREAKING NEWS: There will be a letter of demands sent to networks from campaigns in the next 48 hours, per leaders of tonight's mtg.
— Robert Costa (@costareports) November 2, 2015
If this is the kind of media coercion they do in public, can you imagine what goes on in private? https://t.co/PnoPqmGz2X
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) November 2, 2015
Some Rs involved w/ tonight's mtg are reaching out to Priebus, who is watching the Packers game, to reassure him they fought for RNC in room
— Robert Costa (@costareports) November 2, 2015
The various GOP Kandidates have many, many problems with the RNC’s debate setup!
Per the Washington Post, company paper for the town where politics is the monopoly industry:
Several Republican presidential campaigns began mapping out new demands Sunday for greater control over the format and content of primary debates, which have attracted big audiences and become strategically critical for the 2016 cycle’s expansive field of contenders.
The effort was a response to long-simmering frustrations over the debates, the questions and in some cases the moderators, which boiled over this weekend when advisers from at least 11 campaigns met in the Washington suburbs to deliberate about how to regain sway over the process…
The meeting also exposed a leadership rift that has widened in recent days between the Republican National Committee, which negotiated the debate schedule and formats, and some of the candidates. RNC officials said they would not participate in Sunday’s meeting, but they have been reassuring campaign operatives that they are willing to recalibrate the events.
Shortly before the meeting began, RNC Chairman Reince Priebus announced a staff shake-up within the GOP that appeared intended to calm the unhappiness of the presidential campaigns…
As the meeting got underway, senior strategists from several presidential campaigns revealed in e-mails and text messages that Priebus’s staff shake-up was not enough. One campaign manager, who was granted anonymity to speak about the private meeting, wrote: “Major question is if the RNC should be involved at all.”
The campaigns reached an early consensus on one issue, according to several operatives in the room: the secure standing of Fox News Channel. Any changes would be applied to debates after next week’s Fox Business Network debate. Among the reasons, according to one operative in the room, was that “people are afraid to make Roger [Ailes] mad,” a reference to the network’s chief.
Bush campaign manager Danny Diaz recommended that Telemundo be reinstated after being dropped along with NBC. But the campaign of businessman Donald Trump, represented by manager Corey Lewandowski, threatened to boycott a debate if the Spanish-language network that Trump has clashed with was granted one…
“I told Priebus about a week ago that I didn’t like the structure of the debates and how the party was rationing them,” Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) said in an interview. “I said, ‘Something has to change.’ I know they didn’t anticipate 15 candidates in the debates, but there are, and it blew up on them. These debates aren’t what they should be. You have the wrong people in charge of the subject matter and topics, setting candidates up for cheap shots.”…
Why is Steve “Pig Muck” King being interviewed on this issue, being as he’s neither a candidate nor a campaign manager? Because, I guess, he’s the champion of the new “Know Nothing/No Nothing” wing of the Republican Party?
Redesign Launch and Issues Post
andy
No discipline no guts no nothing. Yet to your average wingnut this crybaby circle jerk shows “toughness”.
What are they gonna do when some moderator holds up his/her hand and asks, “how many fingers?”
redshirt
Reince and repeat!
fuzed
well if this is the answer to standard daylight time, I for one welcome our new white space overlords….
BruceFromOhio
They’re pissed about the blue M&M’s in the candy bowl.
beltane
There really is no way to present these idiots in a manner that will make them look good. Maybe the RNC should hire actors to play the part of the candidates. Either that or wax figures.
Tara the Antisocial Social Worker
List of demands:
1. Pile of traffic cones for Chris Christie to throw at people if he gets pissy.
2. Every question to Ben Carson must begin with the words, “Dr. Carson, as a brilliant neurosurgeon, explain why you are right about….”
3. Hot babe to hold Trump’s note cards.
4. Debaters are allowed to carry guns. Moderator must place an apple on his/her head before asking a question they don’t like.
MattF
I’m sure running the country will be vastly easier than coming up with a debate format.
Belafon
And yet the Democrats are complaining about too few debates.
Gin & Tonic
Wondering why blockquoted text is in a larger font than body text. And the formatting buttons in this comment box are white text on an almost-white background, so completely illegible. Yeah, I know I should post this downstairs, but I’m lazy.
Suzanne
WATBs. All of them.
If they think debating is hard, they sure as hell aren’t ready to even think about governance.
J R in WV
Shouldn’t the comments control be either at the bottom of posts, many of which are pages long, or on both the top and the bottom?
Just at the top, like at LGM, is a pain when posts are more than one page long.
Tommy! Congrats, looking good! Thanks!
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
Well they never were thinking of governance so why start now?
Or to put it another way, their total idea of government is to not have any at all. I’d bet all of tRump’s money that if they manage to kill the federal government they go after the states next. Their private security forces should be able to kill any one that gets in their way and nothing else is needed. They may not say this out loud now but if they have their way……
Omnes Omnibus
It’s looks like it is Denver’s night. Damn it.
Peale
So much for the theory that the packers can play with the big boys.
Anya
I don’t hate the new design. I just have to get used to it.
Seanly
Breaking news – Fred Thompson died tonight.
While I didn’t agree with his politics, my condolences to his family for their loss. Apparently, this was due to a recurrence of his lymphoma. As someone who’s spouse has survived lymphoma and is still dealing with her leukemia treatments, all I can say is “Fuck cancer.”
Omnes Omnibus
@Peale: We’ll see.
Suzanne
@Ruckus: The scariest thing is that I think you’re right. Government is just something to keep the proles in line, not something the Better Half should ever have to deal with.
Seriously. When did we stop being fully human to them?
jl
Wow. I thought this nonsense was over and done with. But, like giving into an enraged toddler’s demand mid-tantrum, whatever you do just leads to more demands. At least the toddler has the excuse of being a toddler.
I hope the crack-up of the GOP continues. Knowing that 40+ percent of the population will vote for whatever toxic hairball the GOP coughs up for 2016 from this bunch is stressful. But what if the GOP is in full internecine chaos mode going into the election? Things can only look better.
Maybe the ones who really want it will have to run their own independent campaigns. That would be fun.
Omnes Omnibus
God damn, Denver’s D is amazing.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
looking at Trump’s tweets, he’s gearing up to go after Rubio on immigration. I wonder just how far he’s willing to go.
jl
@Tara the Antisocial Social Worker: Each one needs evidence of a win. Sort of like that iegendary t-ball league of narcissism that is destroying our precious youth, everyone needs certificate saying that they won.
So, just one rule: everything goes just the way I want it to go.
Amir Khalid
Reinhold Priebus doesn’t seem to have the authority to tell the candidates to stop embarrassing the party with their whining.
On another note, I think burnspbesq (or another lawyer in the Juicitariat) predicted this would happen.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
When did we stop?
Much better to ask why the fuck do they think they are human and we aren’t? Fucking self-righteous assholes. Although I do have to say that their shit does stink a lot more than mine.
22over7
This is yet another truck full of smoke and mirrors to deflect attention from the garbage fire that was the debate. It’s also a symptom of the ongoing disintegration of the Republican Party. The primaries are going to be insane.
Omnes Omnibus
@Amir Khalid: Moi.
Amir Khalid
@Omnes Omnibus:
I stand corrected.
Omnes Omnibus
@Amir Khalid: Sometimes I make a good point. Sometimes I babble aimlessly. Sometimes I am just a jerk.
jl
@Omnes Omnibus: That first one there about sometimes making good points is what keeps you out of the GOP front rank. You need to work on that one.
Suzanne
@22over7: In watching the debates (though I didn’t see the CNBC one last week), I am struck by how mind-blowingly stupid the Republicans are coming off. Perhaps that’s just my bias. But they speak in these short, simple sentences that aren’t even grammatically correct, they argue over dumb shit. It really feels like high school, with the same level of pettiness.
How, how, HOW do the voters not see it?
Mary G
This has been a really good World Series. Extra innings again. Sorry, East Coasters.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl:
Well that and the fact that, unlike some around here, I have never been a Republican. Just saying.
FlyingToaster
@Suzanne: The target audience for the debate are the people who enjoy Duck Dynasty, Honey Boo Boo and 19 Kids and Counting. They like this circus, I suspect.
Everyone else is varying degrees of disgusted, nauseated, and freaked out.
My political-junkie mom (walked her precinct while 7 months pregnant with me for Jack Kennedy) gave up 2 debates ago; she couldn’t believe that this is what Eisenhower’s party had degenerated to.
jl
@Suzanne:
‘ How, how, HOW do the voters not see it? ‘
So many are dazzled by all the bright white lights in their eyes, I guess.
NotMax
“list of demands”
*snort*
It’s called contract negotiations, clowns.
What’re they going to do if all the demands (especially things such as network personnel assigned) aren’t met? Go out on strike?
If only….
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: Wouldn’t it be loverly?
justawriter
If the networks had any cojones (that’s a laugh right there) they would all say, OK, the rest of the Republican debates can be seen on some intern’s cell phone video on youtube. If they had spines they would say, we also won’t accept any advertising from your candidates or SuperPACs until after the convention, but as that would mean one less gold toilet on the C-level executive floor, it will never happen either.
SRW1
Priebus should just call the whole primary thing off and tell the candidates to kiss his a**. It has become a farce anyway and there is nobody with sufficient authority to club any sense into them. The RNC could have the nominee decided by a straightforward auction. That should make them a nice bundle.
jl
@FlyingToaster: It never was really Eisenhower’s party. He was a nonpolitical moderate who decided he could do more good inside the GOP than outside by countering extreme isolationists and reactionary weridos. Worked for awhile I suppose.
Peale
@Suzanne: There isn’t enough difference between the candidates to have anything like a policy debate. That’s the problem with having a dozen primary debates. The candidates themselves aren’t going to own up to anything that they have said in the past. If they have a policy that they know won’t be popular they blame the questions for being negative. I think they want to just get on stage and talk about how much they like mothers and pie and the power of prayer.
Some of the questions have been questionable. I can kind of see the point of the complainers that the purpose of these debates isn’t to dwell on their unpopular policies, since they really are debating for the beneift of Republican Primary Voters and shouldn’t need to justify republicanism at this point. That’s what the real debate with Hillary or Bernie should be about next year. There isn’t really anything to debate at this point except their personalities.
Suzanne
@FlyingToaster: Ugh.
What kills me is when stupid people think their opinions are as meaningful or credible as a smart person’s. I have this friend from high school who is a nice dude, but has always been a total idiot. Crappy student, incurious about the world, spent much time completely stoned, dropped out of high school, worked as a waiter for almost fifteen years, then joined the Army because his restaurant went out of business. Has never displayed anything that looks anything like intellectual curiosity in all of those years. He tries to debate me on gun issues from time to time, and I literally cannot debate him because I don’t know what he’s saying. There’s no data, no facts, not even sentences—just emotions and parroting of some random thing someone told him once. And yet, some of the people we know just nod nod nod sagely, as if he’s an expert.
Periodically, I want to say something to the effect of, “Your opinion doesn’t count because you’re stupid,” but I have thus far mustered restraint.
BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: More of Bob Taft’s party.
Suzanne
@efgoldman: Yes. Stupid people don’t know they’re stupid.
I don’t get how they don’t know, though. I mean, it’s really fucking obvious.
22over7
@Peale: My husband keeps wanting to believe that there’s a “moderate” faction of the GOP, or at least a moderate candidate. “Kasich!” He says. “Isn’t he moderate?”
I tell him again that there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference in any of their policy positions, except for the ones who have no positions at all, just blather. That’s what this meeting, and these demands, are about. The candidates are so bad that they want to hide. It’s pathetic.
Peale
Come on mets. I need some sleep
Punchy
So are the candys going to pre-screen the Qs?
dubo
God, if there was even the slightest hint of Hillary trying to influence debates the GOP and media would explode, and nobody bats an eye at this. Everything truly is OKIYAR
JDM
@Seanly: Thompson did a hell of a job as the villain in the Wiseguy arc. And the scammer he was at the end presaged his scammy scummy reverse mortgage ads of recent years.
FlyingToaster
@Suzanne: Despite being walking-talking Dunning-Kruger Effect examples, people who don’t have a lot of awareness of externalities tend to assume that we’re making things complicated to cheat them somehow.
Pointing out that a complicated problem is actually complicated, with examples of specific complications, never seems to get through.
I had this conversation with my mom, regarding one of her siblings. “We can educate people, if they’re simply ignorant. But mom, someone who deliberately turns a blind eye to the facts? I can’t fix stupid. Nobody can. They made a choice, as an adult, that they simply don’t want to learn what the hell’s actually happening.”
Suzanne
@FlyingToaster: One would just seem to think that when one gets poor grades in school, doesn’t finish, and doesn’t read books that it might dawn on that person that there may be others who are intellectually superior. I mean, Good Will Hunting was fucking fiction.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
It isn’t obvious to a stupid person. It is obvious to anyone with only slightly more intellectual curiosity than a flat rock. But if you have been trained your entire life to ignore anything that requires any intellectual curiosity what so ever, you aren’t going to know. We see the same thing on our side with purity ponies. They refuse to ask how will this work, how can we make whatever happen, it sounds like a good idea, so let’s have that.
Wag
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, not so much, it seems.
Go Broncos!
Soprano2
@Peale:
There you go, It may be over soon. Collins is going to be thinking about leaving that pitcher in for the rest of his life. It’s kind of a shame actually – it was a hell of a pitching performance.
sm*t cl*de
Lessons learned: Contractual agreements with Republicans are worthless.
sneezy
Ummm… this new comment format does not make good use of horizontal space on a mobile device. Way too much white space on both margins.
Peale
@Soprano2: wow. I was hoping to end this, but the royals are going to bat around in the 12th.
FlyingToaster
@Soprano2: Go Royals!
I remember staying to the 14th inning at Royals Stadium in the 70s (yes, I know it’s Kauffman now, and lacks the supercool fountains), and tonight seems all too familiar…
Omnes Omnibus
@Wag: I wasn’t actually talking about tonight. Clearly the Broncos had the Pack’s number this evening. I was talking about the season. Who is better than GB in the NFC? I think NE beats Denver in the AFC and GB matches up reasonably well against NE. YMMV.
FlyingToaster
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Royals Win!
Original Lee
@Suzanne: There’s some research that I’ve read about recently that concludes that in order to be aware that you’re not good at something or not knowledgeable about something, you have to have a certain level of skill, experience, or knowledge in that area. Some people can intuit that they are very bad/stupid about something without hitting that level, but most people who think they’re excellent without being actually excellent don’t have enough data to be able to come to that conclusion.
JGabriel
WaPo:
I’m guessing that one of the demands is for
Jesus ChristPaul Ryan to take over the RNC.22over7
@efgoldman: Exactly. Kasich sounds a bit less loony. And look what that’s got him in the polls.
Soprano2
Congrats Royals, you earned this one.
Nate Dawg
Test
Jay C
test
Nate Dawg
@JGabriel: Paul Ryan is the only one who can unite the Asshole and Douchebag wings of the party. In other words, he’s an anal douche.
Villago Delenda Est
The greatest collection of whiny ass titty babies on the face of the planet…the candidates for the Rethuglican Presidential Nomination.
Every last one of them should be beaten to an inch of their lives, then sent off to their rooms with no supper.
Repeat as necessary.
Ruckus
@Villago Delenda Est:
A few of the people that vote for them are worse.
ok
Conservatives are obsessed with projecting strength, talking about how tough they are, how bold and forceful, etc. But when they lie, deceive and spin constantly, that looks really weak to me. Pathetic. Others made this point above. If the GOTP can’t persuade and convince by superior argument, they need to please just STFU and get off the stage.
ok
Re: design, you couldn’t format the comments to show replies to a specific comment directly below it, and indented? See C&L comments. It’s a much clearer way to understand who’s responding to a previous comment. And lack of clarity in the comments has been an annoyance about this site for a long time. Now would be the time to fix it.
mclaren
@FlyingToaster:
Simpler version: “I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.”
Enormous numbers of people “know things” that are urban legends, fairytales, just-so stories, and “everybody knows” bullshit. “Everybody knows” crime has gotten worse! Except the statistics show all kinds of violent crime have plummeted over the last 20 years. “Everybody knows” Reagan’s tax cuts caused a huge economic boom. Except the economic numbers show no increase in the living standards of the middle class during Reagan’s administration. “Everybody knows” America’s huge military buildup caused the USSR to collapse. Except Kremlin insiders say it was the ongoing grain shortage and lack of consumer goods that finally caused the crash. “Everybody knows” Saddam had WMDs. (Do I even need to address that one?) “Everybody knows” Republicans are great at handling military matters. Except Republicans lost the Vietnam war, Republicans lost the Iraq war, Republicans lost the Afghanistan war, Republicans have lost every single war they’ve handled. “Everybody knows” campus rape is a crisis. Except the statistics don’t add up because it 1 out of 4 women on campus were being raped, there would be 100 times as many rapes as are currently reported — so the actual numbers work out to less than the incidence of rape in the general population, which turns out to be less than 1%. “Everybody knows” Bernie Sanders is an extremist socialist because he praises the socialist commie hellhole Denmark. Except the president of Denmark just spoke up and said Denmark is a capitalist country, not a socialist system. “Everybody knows” unlimited corporate cash buys elections. Except it hasn’t done anything since Citizens v United except fracture and destablize the Republican party by allowing fringe nut jobs to get their crazy messages amplified by even crazier billionaires.
Sherparick
If NBC, CBS, CNN, and ABC would take a lead from Ailes, they would tell the Republicans to go ‘eff” themselves and by the way, it is time to show them what “Liberal bias” actually is by dropping the “Both Sides” meme and telling the country what a bunch of neo-Confederate Plutocrats and their toadies that they are, but publishing and broadcasting stories like this: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/business/dealbook/in-arbitration-a-privatization-of-the-justice-system.html?_r=1
Sherparick
As for why they won’t, check out the fact that 90% of American media, TV, Radio, and Newspapers, are owned by only 6 companies now. “…Consider this: In 1983, 90 percent of American media was owned by 50 companies, and by 2011, that number had fallen to six companies: CBS, Time Warner, Viacom, News Corp, Disney and GE, which subsequently sold its media holding, NBC Universal, to cable giant Comcast (which would, in turn, later try to merge with Time Warner Cable, although that deal eventually fell apart). http://www.salon.com/2015/11/02/the_wing_nut_myth_that_refuses_to_die_why_the_one_simple_reason_why_theres_no_liberal_media_conspiracy/
Denali
@Suzanne,
Of course people are stupid. But I have concluded that we are all stupid in our own way. Some of the smartest people have no social skills at all. Some of the not so smart or self aware arejust plain lovable.
Anyway, politics is a whole different ball game. To be successful, candidates must have that undefinable quality of charisma – Eisenhower had it; Kennedy had it; Clinton and of course, Obama. Even GW, dumb as a post had it to some degree. That person is what the Repubican Party is searching for right now. Not the smartest person.
I stand in awe of your abilities as an architect. But don’t discount what others bring to the game.
FortGeek
@Nate Dawg:
“With friends like him, who needs enemas?”
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Denali:
While all of this is true, candidates should also have some measure of ability. We’re picking one of these jokers to manage the largest bureaucracy on the planet. Charisma gets you elected, but it doesn’t do dick when it comes time to decide on a budget.
Denali
@Grumpy Cody Monkey,
You are right, of course. Thats why we are screwed.
Sherparick
I know it may be depressing, but Steve M. at “No More Mister Nice Blog” points to what this may really be all about in the Conservative Infotainment Industrial Complex. Its about fixing the blame for losing 2016 on the “librul media.” “…The key point you should take away from this, and from all the grumbling about CNBC, is that if Republicans lose a third straight election, they’re not going to examine what they did in the campaign and conclude that they made mistakes that cost them the White House. No — they’re already preparing to blame defeat on liberal media bias. GOP voters will still be angry at John Harwood and Joy Behar (and, presumably, a number of other media villains) long after non-GOP voters have forgotten the moments that so incensed the right in the fall of 2015. Conservatism can’t fail — it can only be failed — so this will be the reason for the loss, not the Republican candidate or agenda or rhetoric. There will be no learning. And we’ll go through this all over again in four years…” Mike Tomasky and E. J. Dionne are wrong that about the madness. http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2015/11/no-republicans-wont-learn-anything-if.html
You have to remember that from just a business stand point, nothing could be better for Fox News, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levine, Jaimie O’Keefe and rest of the right wing media infotaiment grifter industrial complex then a Hilary Clinton Presidency.
J R in WV
@efgoldman:
Testing:
I agree with EFG about comment numbering, and I am going to copy another comment here, that quotes something else:
I bet it comes out just like it did in the first comment, just above this one. Comment numbers, and on the main front page, the access to enter comments should be at the bottom of the front pager’s text, so we don’t have to scroll 15′ 7″ back up to make a comment. Because we’re Balloon-Juice, and lazy!
thanks again guys for the updates!
chromeagnomen
every ‘improvement ‘ is a little worse on the website. if i click back to see which comment is being referred to, i can’t get right back to the spot i left in the thread. when i get to the bottom of the comment thread i can’t go to the next thread. why remove the comment numbers? why ‘fix’ the things that aren’t broken, and are in fact working very well?
mclaren
@chromeagnomen:
Add to the problems of the new site design: bold comments show in blue so you mistake ’em for links — which they are NOT. Bold + italics doesn’t show up at all, it shows as bold…which is to say, it falsely looks like a link.
Why fix things that aren’t broken, and are in fact working well? Because this is the fucking COMPUTER INDUSTRY, and to make gobs ‘o cash, the computer industry must constantly change everything all the time to force people to buy new shit. Windows 8: get rid of the start button and allow only one window onscreen at a time. WIndows 10: return the start button but fuck up all the drivers do the audio and video no longer work right. Windows 11 will feature a joystick instead of a mouse. Windows 12 will use a Ouija board to select text instead of a keyboard. Windows 13 will have an accelerometer that moves the cursor around so you have to jump and hop and skip to navigate the screen. Windows 14 will feature foot pedals to enter text.
Nothing but endless useless pointless worthless counterproductive change for the sake of change — that’s the goddamn fucking computer industry.
The next Balloon-Juice “upgrade” will feature a Dance Dance Revolution pad and you’ll have to navigate and enter text by dancing.
Howlin Wolfe
@efgoldman: classic D/K syndrome.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@mclaren: I can’t believe I’m saying this, but…
I love this comment so much.