Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, door #2)

In after Baud. Damn.

Republicans in disarray!

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

Fight them, without becoming them!

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

Come on, man.

This fight is for everything.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

All hail the time of the bunny!

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Late Night Open Thread: (Cap) Pistols At Dawn!

Late Night Open Thread: (Cap) Pistols At Dawn!

by | 133 Comments

This post is in: , , , , , ,

Now this sound more like the Bush family everyone’s come to expect — the patricians who have The Help fight their wars for them. The Very Serious NYTimes, “Bush Allies Threaten Wave of Harsh Attacks on Rubio“:

The cash-rich group aiding Jeb Bush’s White House run has filmed a provocative video casting his rival Marco Rubio as ultimately unelectable because of his hard-line stand against abortion.

That group, which has raised more than $100 million, has asked voters in New Hampshire how they feel about Mr. Rubio’s skipping important votes in the Senate.

And the group’s chief strategist has boasted of his willingness to spend as much as $20 million to damage Mr. Rubio’s reputation and halt his sudden ascent in the polls, according to three people told of the claim.

Seething with anger and alarmed over Mr. Rubio’s rise, aides to Mr. Bush, the former Florida governor, and his allies are privately threatening a wave of scathing attacks on his former protégé in the coming weeks, in a sign of just how anxious they have become about the state of Mr. Bush’s candidacy.

Their looming problem: In trying to undercut Mr. Rubio as unaccomplished and unprepared, Mr. Bush is a flawed messenger. Over the years he has repeatedly, and sometimes lavishly, praised the younger lawmaker, often on camera….

Oh, be fair — Jeb Bush is a “flawed messenger” by every metric; it doesn’t need an uppity young protegee pushing ahead in the queue to make Jeb look like a saggy old suburban WASP.

… [T]he preoccupation with Mr. Rubio is revealing, suggesting not just fury at his challenge to a former mentor, but also a conviction that rivals like Donald J. Trump and Ben Carson have no chance of winning and will collapse in time for Mr. Bush to rise again. Mr. Rubio, the Bush team expects, will remain standing.

For many of Mr. Bush’s longest-serving advisers, Mr. Rubio’s run is a betrayal: Mr. Bush backed Mr. Rubio’s bid for House speaker in Florida and persuaded important donors to endorse him for the Senate. A few of Mr. Bush’s supporters have taken to calling Mr. Rubio “Judas.”…

Any attacks on Mr. Rubio would come primarily from Right to Rise, the “super PAC” that has raised more than $100 million for Mr. Bush. Its top strategist, Mike Murphy, refused to detail the group’s strategy but did not dispute that Mr. Rubio was in its sights.

“Part of running for president is you have to put your big boy pants on and get vetted on the issues, so we know we don’t have a dud candidate running against Hillary Clinton,” he said.

Asked about the multiple videos of Mr. Bush praising Mr. Rubio over the years, Mr. Murphy said of Mr. Rubio: “We all supported him for the Senate. We all support him staying there, because he is far from proving he is ready and experienced enough to be president of the United States in a dangerous time.”…

Mr. Murphy has privately said to several people that Right to Rise would be ready to devote up to $20 million to fighting Mr. Rubio, according to several people told of the conversations. Asked about the figure, Mr. Murphy declined to comment.

Aides to Mr. Bush, meanwhile, have grown weary of conflicting advice about how to deal with Mr. Rubio. After the Oct. 28 debate, in which Mr. Bush criticized Mr. Rubio for missing votes, Mr. Bush’s top adviser, Sally Bradshaw, archly noted on a conference call that the very donors accusing Mr. Bush of being too aggressive had previously encouraged Mr. Bush to go after Mr. Rubio…

Ripe to Rot Rises! And every penny they spend on blanketing New Hampshire’s airwaves and lefty political blogs’ comment threads is a penny they won’t have to spend against HRClinton in the general. Snipe away, Repubs!

Reader Interactions

133Comments

  2. 2.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    Over the weekend, I wrote acknowledgements, tweaked my bio, looked over the blurb from the Kickstarter to see if it’s suitable for the back cover, bought some ISBNs and a bar code, and started the ball rolling on some marketing. All really exciting stuff.

    I think it’s starting to sink in that this is happening, and that in 2-3 months, you’ll find something I’m selling on Amazon, and, hopefully, in a few bookstores locally.

  4. 4.

    mclaren

    Watching the sharks eat each other is the best entertainment short of the new upcoming Star Trek series. And, since the Republican candidates closely resemble the Star Wars cantina scene, the science fiction theme certainly fits.

  5. 5.

    Peale

    Yes. The Rubio Surge that we are all supposed to agree is happening. Sceptic that he’s exactly where he was in June.

  8. 8.

    Cervantes

    to make Jeb look like a saggy old suburban WASP.

    You know who else is an even older suburban WASP, right?

  9. 9.

    RepubAnon

    @redshirt: Or one could simply help him with his homework and make him less angry. Stopping the assassination of the Grand Duke and thus preventing WW1 might be a better option as well.

  12. 12.

    Luthe

    I will continue to root for injuries here. Self-inflicted are best, but kneecapping from opponents is almost as good.

  14. 14.

    Fair Economist

    Really, the worst that they can come up with against Rubio is that he missed votes in the Senate? I sure wouldn’t spend $20 million on getting that tidbit out to the voters of New Hampshire. He’s been a slacker on Senate votes, but not even the worst in recent history – that title goes to John Kerry.

  18. 18.

    benw

    I thought the Bush family were sly, dirty political operators. This sounds like running their mouth to the NYT.

  22. 22.

    dmsilev

    I guess I’m a bit confused about the point of the story in the Times. Is this supposed to be a shot across the bow of the SS Rubio by Team Bush? Or did someone actually do an unauthorized leak of their Super Secret Strategy? Either way, it comes across as flailing, until and unless the vicious attacks actually materialize. Are we going to see Jeb? try to throw a completely telegraphed punch at the debate tomorrow, only to somehow yet again manage to knee himself in his own groin?

  25. 25.

    Felonius Monk

    @amk:

    Now that the waterboy has own sugar daddies, this will be a vicious fun fight to watch.

    I don’t think Jeb? is very capable of fighting. He may have some surrogates who will do some of the dirty work, but he will lose in any direct confrontation with Rubio. There was some evidence of that during the last debate.

  26. 26.

    JCJ

    Apparently there is a debate tomorrow night so the klown kar is rolling into Milwaukee. I would say that I hope all that stupid doesn’t spread out through the rest of the state, but then I remember Walker has won three elections here.

  27. 27.

    Cervantes

    @Felonius Monk:

    I don’t think Jeb? is very capable of fighting. He may have some surrogates who will do some of the dirty work, but he will lose in any direct confrontation with Rubio. There was some evidence of that during the last debate.

    And still Florida Democrats lost to him twice.

    It’s enough to make a grown man cry.

  28. 28.

    dmsilev

    @JCJ: The debate has the potential for quite a bit of car-wreck action. Trump seems ready to go after Carson, Carson is feeling all woe-is-me-the-evil-media-is-attacking-me, Bush needs to at least try to take down Rubio, and everyone hates Ted Cruz.

    I still think the best debate format would be to tell the candidates that there is a loaded pistol in each of their podia, and then for a big sheet of bulletproof glass to descend between the candidates and the moderators/audience.

  29. 29.

    sukabi

    @redshirt: oh sure he would, depending on the political winds…, he’d kill a baby hitler, IF that’s what the polls said was popular… then he’d force feed it thru a feeding tube and keep it on life support for his family values crowd…

  32. 32.

    Redshift

    I also find it hilarious that they’re still absolutely certain that the collapse of Trump and Carson is inevitable, so they can concentrate their fire on a candidate who is surging to the low teens in the polls.

    The whole thing conveys an impression less of cunning political strategy and more of taking personal offense that Rubio didn’t “wait his turn.” Just like W. Hmm, this seems to happen to Jeb? a lot…

  35. 35.

    Mike J

    I heard Marco Rubio had a baby with a black prostitute. Of course I haven’t seen a recent script.

  36. 36.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Cervantes: His ability to win earlier elections and his capability for fighting/willingness to fight this time around are not necessarily connected. Let’s consider Y. A. Tittle.

  37. 37.

    amk

    @lamh36: Yup, automatic moderation for any linky now. It’s up to the blog tyrants like AL to release you.

    cole should seriously consider bringing the other chuck on board. He seems to know his way around html coding.

  38. 38.

    Peale

    Please. Spend 20 million trying to catch the third place candidate. And you want us to be concerned about $7,200 in expenses charged to a GOP card? Spending that was so atrocious that the GOP didn’t d much about it at the time?

    Jeb is spending money like a rebuilding team hoping that it is always one free agent away from a .500 season some day.

  40. 40.

    Redshift

    @dmsilev:

    The debate has the potential for quite a bit of car-wreck action. Trump seems ready to go after Carson, Carson is feeling all woe-is-me-the-evil-media-is-attacking-me, Bush needs to at least try to take down Rubio, and everyone hates Ted Cruz.

    My mind immediately started to set that to the tune of Tom Lehrer’s “National Brotherhood Week.”

    “… And everybody hates Ted Cruz!”

  41. 41.

    amk

    @Redshift:

    LOLGOP ‏@LOLGOP 6h6 hours ago

    Monmouth: South Carolina GOP

    Carson 28
    Trump 27
    Rubio 11
    Cruz 9
    Baby Hitler 8
    Bush 7

    72 retweets 149 likes

  43. 43.

    hellslittlestangel

    Bush wants to attack Rubio because Rubio’s chubby pink cheeks remind him of Baby Hitler.

  44. 44.

    srv

    And in the end, one man will be standing:

    SPRINGFIELD — Fresh off his star turn as host of “Saturday Night Live,” Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump took a bow in Illinois’ capital city Monday, rallying supporters and onlookers at a standing-room-only downtown convention center.

    In an hour-long speech, Trump teed off on Democrats and Republicans alike and suggested his anti-immigration stance and background in business will help him win the general election.
    …
    Trump received his biggest applause from the 10,000-plus crowd when he said he opposes Common Core school standards, supports the Second Amendment and would repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act.
    …
    Several audience members said the event was the first time they’d attended a political event.

    “I found out about it four days ago and decided I wanted to see the next president,” said Lincoln resident Tim Moose. “I think Donald Trump is the way to go because he’s not a politician.”

    Jesse Hart, a Springfield resident, said he likes Trump’s positions on immigration and says it could help create more jobs for Americans.

    The silent majority is back.

  45. 45.

    Redshift

    @Fair Economist:

    He’s been a slacker on Senate votes, but not even the worst in recent history – that title goes to John Kerry.

    Source? It’s a dumb attack because legislator presidential candidates always miss a lot of votes, but it was my understanding that even by that standard, Rubio is in a class by himself, saved only by the fact that this Congress has been spectacularly unproductive, so the absolute number of votes he’s missed is smaller.

  46. 46.

    amk

    John Fugelsang Verified account ‏@JohnFugelsang 27m27 minutes ago

    Jeb Bush would never abort Baby Hitler but mister, you’d better believe he’d bring a Glock to that delivery room

    84 retweets 121 likes

  48. 48.

    hellslittlestangel

    Can anyone recommend a good website devoted exclusively to Baby Hitler?

    Only good ones, please.

  51. 51.

    amk

    Brian Gaar Verified account ‏@briangaar 7h7 hours ago

    Reporter: Are you against abortion?
    Jeb Bush: Of course, all life is sacred.
    Reporter: Would you kill Baby Hitler?
    Jeb: With my bare hands.

    532 retweets 1,089 likes

    And this is the moron, many bj’ers are bedwetting about?

  54. 54.

    Punchy

    Why would an extremely aggresive anti-abortion stance preclude a Repub from winning the nommy? This seems complelely backward.

  55. 55.

    Mnemosyne (tablet)

    Just to show I have other interests, we watched the second episode of “Ash vs the Evil Dead” tonight. I enjoyed it, but I’m pretty sure you need to already be a fan of “Evil Dead 2,” “Army of Darkness,” or both.

  56. 56.

    Peale

    @Face: yep. I figured the first candidate that says “we’re tired of you sluts whining about incest” will get the nod.

  58. 58.

    Tommy

    @greennotGreen: I wish with all my heart that was not the case. I don’t think you really know for a second how much I wish that wasn’t the case. I wish I could snap my fingers and make all the things in the world better. I can not.

  60. 60.

    PJ

    @redshirt: All these genius would-be time-travelling baby-killers never pause to consider that the Nazi Party did not start with Hitler, and many Germans were itching to start another war regardless of Adolf, and perhaps the eventual Fuhrer of Earth-2 would be less delusional, paranoid, and strategically incompetent (and if he were not anti-Semetic, he might just keep some scientists around to work on nuclear weapons).

  61. 61.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Cervantes: Does he seem competent now? Does he seem in control? Stepping from the state to the federal level is big jump. Bush has been out of elective politics for several years and he does not seem to be on his game. If you disagree, perhaps you could offer your reasoning why you do so.

  63. 63.

    Punchy

    Why is the Hitler question even asked? So Jeb’s going to kill babies that act agressively? Ones that appear to hate Jews? Otherwise, what a stupid nonsensical impossible hypothetical that only implies you’re happy to shoot or strangle infants.

  64. 64.

    Cervantes

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    No, you’re right: there are salient differences between his past and present environments.

    And yet if I am amazed by the difference in his performance, imagine how he feels.

  65. 65.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Tommy: This may seem weird, but I want to say that my criticisms of you over the past days have nothing to do with your professional competence as a web-person. You seem rather good at that. End result choices I don’t like, I can usually live with.* I’ve brought up my thoughts in other threads and I don’t walk away from them; I just want to point out that I don’t question your technical competence.

    *Aside from threaded comments.

  68. 68.

    Suzanne

    Today was my eighth day in a row at work, and that included some 12-hour days. I am taking Friday off.

    Starting to plan the Thanksgiving menu, and we’re all sick of turkey. Thinking about a prime rib, and some Gruyere Mac and cheese. I want to make a dessert involving my favoritest thing ever, HONEYCRISP APPLES. Anyone have any suggestions?

  71. 71.

    Tommy

    @Omnes Omnibus: You and I can butt heads. As for the redeign you have been nothing but polite and honest. Don’t think for a second I have not been paying attention to how people talk to me. I don’t know if you care about this, but you come out on the positive side of things.

  75. 75.

    Mnemosyne (tablet)

    @Punchy:

    It really comes across as, Yep, it’s true, we don’t give a shit about actual born people, only fetuses. Next?

    It’s amazing how he can call abortion “infanticide” and then claim to be willing to commit actual infanticide and not see a contradiction. But I guess this is another of Jeb’s famous jokes and we’ll hear again in a couple of days that liberals just don’t know a joke when they hear one.

  79. 79.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Tommy: Unexpected, but cool. It doesn’t alter my opinion about you or the threats the other night, but I get that you are capable of some separation. We can and should, though, let that discussion die. I assume Cole has made a decision and that is okay. If I may make a suggestion – you may not want to take one from me – but before you threaten to go nuclear again, walk away and even sleep on it. You have keys now; you can’t behave like a random commenter.

  81. 81.

    Peale

    @NotMax: yep. It’s the reason why I think Cruz would be the worst of the bunch were he to get the nod. None of those candidates stumbled across that show accidentally. But Cruz strikes me as the type who would not just undo progress for gays and lesbians. He’d actually make sure that he’d leave craters where civil rights once were.

  84. 84.

    Tommy

    @Omnes Omnibus: Could we let that go? I was kind of a dick. Be the first to say that. But the abuse was just none ending. Is it that strange to think it happened I got mad?

  86. 86.

    seaboogie

    Fuck the Bushes – they are just up to their usual shit. OTOH, since this is an open thread, I’ve just wrapped up a fb convo with the fiance of my first bf. He’s 64, she’s 32 or 33. She friended me tonight and had some questions about our brief, very long ago courtship, so I answered with all love and kindness. And THEN she tells me they are in a polyamorous relationship (ex BF is a very strait-laced dude from an old family in their city) with another fellow who is going to be her baby daddy, even though she is engaged to be married to ex BF.

    I think I was pretty cool about it – though she was either drunk or has a personality disorder – but that was ENTIRELY UNEXPECTED.

    You just never know what’d going to happen after you wake up every day.

  88. 88.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    Watching The Last Word and they’re showing the argument between Bill Orally and George Will, it’s fun TV.

  94. 94.

    Mnemosyne (tablet)

    @seaboogie:

    With stuff like that, I usually end up defaulting to the old Miss Manners standby, Oh, how nice for you. Though even Miss Manners admits she’s gotten herself in trouble that way by not listening closely enough.

  95. 95.

    NotMax

    @Suzanne

    Also too, a pumpkin dessert I sometimes make at Turkey Day time. Don’t care much for pumpkin pie, nor a heavy dessert after the Big Meal.

    Creamy Dreamy Pumpkin Parfait

    1 envelope unflavored gelatin
    ¼ cold water
    3 eggs, separated
    1 cup + 1 teaspoon sugar
    1½ cups canned or cooked pumpkin
    ½ cup milk
    ½ teaspoon salt (or less, to taste)
    ½ teaspoon cinnamon
    ½ teaspoon nutmeg
    (optional) ¼ teaspoon allspice
    1 cup heavy cream
    (optional) &#189 teaspoon rum or rum flavoring
    (optional) chopped nuts

    Stir gelatin into cold water.
    Beat egg yolks with ¼ tsp,. salt, ½ sugar, milk, pumpkin, cinnamon, nutmeg and allspice. Cook this mixture over low heat, stirring constantly, until thickened. Remove from heart, stir in dissolved gelatin and chill at least 2 hours in fridge.
    Beat egg whites with ½ tsp. salt until they are stiff and form peaks.
    Bring out the chilled pumpkin mixture, fold in beaten egg whites and refrigerate 1 hour more.
    Whip the cream with 1 tsp sugar and the rum.
    Fold whipped cream into chilled mixture (reserve some whipped cream for topping, if desired).
    Divide completed mixture into sherbet cups, ramekins, or similar single-serve vessels and return to fridge until ready to serve.
    Top with reserved whipped cream and nuts right before serving.

    Makes 6 – 8 servings.

  96. 96.

    burnspbesq

    @sukabi:

    the only thing ¡Jeb! fixed was the Florida election to elect his brother.

    Lest we forget, the only reason that election was close enough to rig was because over 80,000 Floridians voted for Nader.

    Yes, Dr. Stein, I’m looking at you. Do the right thing.

  97. 97.

    seaboogie

    @Mnemosyne (tablet): I went with “I’ve got to check this”. “Dude – call me”. And told the pivot on the triangle (oh, I am learning soooo many new terms) that I would do that, and she’s apparently cool with it. Apparently. A little defensive/agro – so not entirely sure she’s not a nutter. Just hoping everyone on that end is happy while I deal with TMI.

  98. 98.

    NotMax

    @Mnemosyne>

    As one who dabbled in theater for quite a while it was not unusual to be invited by fellow actors and directors or even a playwright to see a new production and come backstage afterwards to express an opinion (and massage egos).

    In the case of a less than meritorious production, found the most diplomatic comment when asked was to respond “You must be very proud” and then pad off in search any free opening night booze or nibbles.

  99. 99.

    Fair Economist

    @Redshift:

    Source? It’s a dumb attack because legislator presidential candidates always miss a lot of votes, but it was my understanding that even by that standard, Rubio is in a class by himself, saved only by the fact that this Congress has been spectacularly unproductive, so the absolute number of votes he’s missed is smaller.

    I can’t find it on a quickie check, but the gist was that during the election years Senatorial candidate miss almost all votes, so that means nothing. The years before are the significant ones. Rubio so far has missed about the same percentage as Obama and Hillary (all in the 30s percentages) *but* it’s not yet the end of the year so he’ll probably miss more. Kerry supposedly missed 79% the year before.

  100. 100.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @burnspbesq:

    Lest we forget, the only reason that election was close enough to rig was because over 80,000 Floridians voted for Nader.

    I’ve been told that it was because Al Gore was a shitty candidate, or picked a shitty VP candidate, or…

  101. 101.

    NotMax

    For those who are Costco members (and who imbibe) just opened, let breathe and sampled a bottle of this.

    Damn tasty and more than moderately complex for an $8 bottle (probably a buck less in the contiguous 48).

    Holds up nicely accompanying the spaghetti with extra-spicy and cheesy sauce am having for din-din.

  104. 104.

    Amir Khalid

    Jeb came into the campaign as the moneybags’ main man and a favourite for the nomination. Since then it’s been entertaining to watch him flail, and his support slowly dwindle to where he’s now just a middle-of-the-pack runner. Now let’s all listen to his secret campaign song.

  106. 106.

    Amir Khalid

    @redshirt:
    I am of the “get Hitler into art college” school. Nobody has to die, and the world won’t be significantly worse off merely because it has one more mediocre painter. To be sure, the “improve Archduke Ferdinand’s security detail” school also has a good argument.

  109. 109.

    mclaren

    @Redshift:

    I also find it hilarious that they’re still absolutely certain that the collapse of Trump and Carson is inevitable, so they can concentrate their fire on a candidate who is surging to the low teens in the polls.

    Why?

    It’s a smart strategy.

    The election is a year away. Carson is already self-destructing. Trump has run away from every position that made him initially popular with the base. Huckabee and Jindal are small fry with no realistic chance of becoming the Republican nominee.

    That leaves Jeb, Cruz and Rubio.

    Jeb’s strategy has always been to wait out the loons until they implode, then present himself as the only electable candidate. That’s why he’s going after Rubio instead of Cruz. The Republican leadership hates Cruz with such a vengeance that if necessary they’ll change the nomination rules to prevent him from getting it. That leaves Rubio as the only real threat.

  110. 110.

    Peale

    @Amir Khalid: unfortunately, I think Hitler had the kind of personality in which getting into art school wouldn’t have been enough. The time traveler would also have to alter art history in Vienna so that architectural paintings became considered the pinnacle of artistic expression. While a small price to pay, it’s difficult to change taste.

  111. 111.

    amk

    David Smith
    ‏@dtsmith_sydney

    “Would you kill baby Hitler?” is a softball for GOP candidates. Ask them “Would you have allowed his mother to terminate her pregnancy?”

  113. 113.

    David Koch

    Ironically ¿Jeb ? would kill baby Hitler, but he wouldnt abort him cuz every life is precious or something.

  114. 114.

    mclaren

    @Amir Khalid:

    None of you guys are looking at the big picture. Here’s the plain fact of the matter: it doesn’t matter which person becomes chancellor of Germany, the Great Depression will still hit and wallop Germany with 50% unemployment at the same time ruinous reparations payments get extorted by the Versailles Treaty.

    America almost had a fascist coup because of the Great Depression — Prescott Bush was part of it. If that could almost happen in America, a country with a much stronger history of democracy, what chance do you think Germany had to avoiding a coup in the 1930s when the very nation of Germany had only existed as a unified state for 60 years?

    History is only partly created by people. Mostly, history is the result of long trends. The Great Depression created dictators around the world. The rise of modern technology gave those dictators genocidal capabilities by the 1930s. Anti-semitism didn’t start in Germany with Adolf Hitler, it had been around for centuries. The Great Depression brought it to the fore.

    If you want to avoid WW II, you must avoid the disastrous Versaille Treaty. But to avoid that, you must avoid the prolonged brutal mechanized mass murder of trench warfare and poison gas that was WW I. But to avoid WW I you must change all of European history, and wave out of existence with your magic wand a great deal of technology (machine guns, modern chemistry, railroads, modern artillery, airplanes).

    Some historical events are indeed unique and could theoretically be changed by a single time traveler killing one person. Kemal Atatürk miraculous conversion of the Ottoman Empire into a westernized democracy without violence comes to mind. Kill Kemal Atatürk, and modern Turkey wouldn’t exist — history would take a very different course. Or Charles Martel’s victory over the Moors at the battle of Tours in 732 A.D. Kill Martel and history would take a very different path. Likewise, give Ögedei Khan some antibiotics on 10 December 1241 and the Mongols wouldn’t have turned back from laying siege to Western Europe. Once again, a very different history.

    But killing Hitler wouldn’t accomplish much. At most, you must alter the details of WW II and the Holocaust, but the overall pattern would remain.

  116. 116.

    David Koch

    Rachel Maddow and Chris Hayes are in shock that O’Malley criticized Sanders for being a socialist. They think it’s out of bounds.

    Their response is a jaw dropper. Have they no sense of history on how the corporate media and republicans viciously attack democrats? If Sanders became the frontrunner do they think their dear friends Chuck Todd, Andrea Mitchell, as well as Steve Schmidt and Michael Steele would give Sanders a free pass on being a Socialist? Of course not. The jackals would be attacking him and rad baiting him every 10 seconds.

    It’s as if they slept though the past 2 campaign cycles. In 2012, when a non-romeny would emerge, Mittens’s super pac & the corporate media would carpet bomb him/her to bits. In 2008, Obama didn’t receive any scrutiny until he became the frontrunner. Once he did, a firestorm erupted on Rev Wright, Bill Ayers, his birth place, whitey tape, whether he put his hand on his heart during the pledge of allegiance, etc., etc.. It was withering.

    It’s as if living in the bubble of liberal manhattan has left them ignorant to the cutthroat nature of presidential campaigns.

  117. 117.

    David Koch

    “Mr. Bush is a flawed messenger.”

    Meh. Being compromised on positions & statements never stopped Mittens’s Super Pac from successfully destroying his competitors.

  118. 118.

    TheMightyTrowel

    I think Jeb! Should have said that he’d kill the radioactive spider that bit Hitler turning him into a liberal and also too history’s only real racist.

  120. 120.

    low-tech cyclist

    “Part of running for president is you have to put your big boy pants on and get vetted on the issues, so we know we don’t have a dud candidate running against Hillary Clinton,” he said.

    They have a non-dud candidate available? Who knew?

  121. 121.

    amk

    Simon Maloy ‏@SimonMaloy 11h11 hours ago

    MODERATOR: would you kill baby Hitler?
    JEB: Hell yes
    KASICH: with my bare hands
    CRUZ: I notice Obama hasn’t
    RUBIO: my father was a bartender

  122. 122.

    amk

    Matthew O’Brien ‏@MattOB34 14h14 hours ago

    Jeb time travels. Kills baby Hitler. WWII averted. Barbara never falls in love w/ war pilot George HW Bush. Jeb is never born. Hitler lives.

  124. 124.

    Snarkworth

    @dmsilev: [with apologies to Tom Lehrer:]

    “Oh, the Bushes hate the Rubios, and the Rubios hate the Bushes,
    And the Donald hates Ben Carson….
    ….and everybody hates Ted Cruz!”

  127. 127.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @seaboogie: Lots of people seem to think soap operas are video instruction manuals.

    Be happy you’re not part of it! :-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  128. 128.

    Baud

    I’m sadly going to miss the GOP debate tonight. I was curious as to how Jeb would embarrass himself this time.

  130. 130.

    TriassicSands

    I wouldn’t want to run for any political office, but running for president as a Republican is strictly for masochists (and sadists, since I guess they have to like to inflict pain as much as like to suffer it).

    I’ve missed all the GOP debates, since they are essentially pay-per-view programming — I don’t have any TV provider, so I’m out of luck. Or is it in luck, since I wouldn’t benefit at all from watching those clowns bicker. I already know they hate the media. I already know that Democrats are socialists and worse. And I already know that cutting taxes on the rich makes the economy grow at 10-15%. That about does it for the Republican debates, I think. Oh, and Ben Carson is a personal favorite of the Baby Jesus, who sat for a portrait with Ben.

  131. 131.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Felonius Monk: What I see when I watch the clip of JEB? saying he eats nails before breakfast is an older, lamer version of Will Ferrell doing his Frank the Tank character from Old School.

    I’m rooting for injuries here. If JEB? can damage Marco badly enough that leaves the Republicans without anybody who is remotely electable. That includes JEB? who isn’t capable of winning but just doesn’t know it yet.

  132. 132.

    Matt McIrvin

    @mclaren: I wonder. If there had been a massive nuclear war between the US and the Soviet Union in 1962 or 1983 (just to take the two most likely moments), any historians who survived to tell the tale would probably have described the event as historically inevitable.

    I think it’s barely possible the situation pre-WWI could have been finessed without a global conflagration.

Comments are closed.